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Around SBN: UFC 146 Results: Junior dos Santos TKO's Frank Mir

Gegard Mousasi Wants to Test Himself Against Jon Jones

Gegard Mousasi, photo via Esther Lin/STRIKEFORCE

Former Strikeforce light heavyweight champ Gegard Mousasi will face UFC veteran and late substitute Keith Jardine at Strikeforce: Diaz vs Daley on Saturday. Mousasi knows this is a critical fight against a dangerous opponent with nothing to lose. Mousasi spoke to MMA Weekly about what the bout means:
"(Keith Jardine) is a good replacement because he’s mainly a stand-up fighter. It’s not like I have to face a pure wrestler. I have to fight a little bit different, but the change is not that big. He’s a tough opponent. He’s a former UFC fighter, and beat two former UFC champions, so it will be good to get a feeling of how good UFC fighters are."

"Right now Jon Jones is considered the best, and if I win my fights, maybe it could build up a good match against him. I think it would be such a great fight, so I would like to test myself against him."

"I need to win my fights (and get the title from Dan Henderson) first in Strikeforce, and then there’s a possibility to fight in the UFC or have the Strikeforce champion versus the UFC champion. But I’ve got to win my fights before thinking about that possibility."
Gegard "The Dreamcatcher" Mousasi (30-3-1) [Num. 12]
Win Tatsuya Mizuno - Submission (Rear-Naked Choke) Dream 16
Win Jake O'Brien - Submission (Guillotine Choke) Dream 15
Loss Muhammed Lawal - Decision (Unanimous) Strikeforce

Strikeforce: Diaz vs. Daley coverage

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It's good to dream big I guess

Jones would beat him right out of the division, but it’s good to dream big.

Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.

by Dave Strummer on Apr 7, 2011 2:03 PM EDT reply actions  

i'd watch it

but i wouldnt be at all optimistic about mousasi’s chacnes. his wrestling is far too inferior to jones’

"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva

by milk72 on Apr 7, 2011 2:06 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

ROFLMFAO

The days as champ are done... but the juggernaut known as Brock Lesnar will return.

by HitokiriX on Apr 7, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

that

or the fact that it was late at night and it was just funny to me

The days as champ are done... but the juggernaut known as Brock Lesnar will return.

by HitokiriX on Apr 7, 2011 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Late at night?

Are you in asia?

Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.

by RolloTomasi on Apr 7, 2011 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes

The days as champ are done... but the juggernaut known as Brock Lesnar will return.

by HitokiriX on Apr 7, 2011 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

cool.

Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.

by RolloTomasi on Apr 8, 2011 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah.

But Jones wouldn’t have a hard time doing damage where Mo was impotent.

by Confucius on Apr 7, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thats hard to say. Mousasi has a great guard game and he’s very dangerous off his back. Just look at Mo’s face post fight. He didnt even want it to be shown.

Assuming Jones would have it easier than the power GnPer that is King Mo is pretty far fetched.

by Discman2 on Apr 7, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

He would definitely do better at passing and finishing, although Lawal might have gotten the stoppage had elbows been allowed.

"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne

by The American Ronin on Apr 7, 2011 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

that match was so weird

mostly since Mo couldn’t knock him out or pass his guard at all. Mousasi couldn’t seem to muster any offense and i don’t remember him trying to work many submissions or doing pretty much anything off his back.

by Victor Rodriguez on Apr 7, 2011 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mousasi was pummeling Mo from his back the first few rounds, swelled his face all up. Though he seemed pretty worn out come the later rounds.

"I am going to punch faces." --Wanderlei Silva
War Miller Bros.

by Jay Bittner on Apr 7, 2011 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not bad.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Apr 7, 2011 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

agreed but then you destroyed your whole argument with the Lesnar reference.

I kid.

I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!

by VeeisAnimated on Apr 7, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Ummm....

Lesnar didn’t come up with “Any given Sunday.” It’s an NFL adage.

by HaterSlayer on Apr 8, 2011 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Shit!

"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne

by The American Ronin on Apr 8, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Uhmmm

I aware of that. I am also aware of the film starring Pacino, Foxx and a bunch of stars called Any Given Sunday, yeah I get that.

But for those of us fanatics watching TUF . . . eating chicken sh*t, oops, chicken salad, I dare utter the phrase “Any Given Sunday” for quite a while.

I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!

by VeeisAnimated on Apr 8, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

absolutely agree with all u said

but i still dont like mousasi’s chances. but again fights arent fought on paper

"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva

by milk72 on Apr 7, 2011 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

if fights were announced now for august, heres how i would handicap jone's opponents

machida +300
anderson +350
davis +400
rampage +400
rashad +450
shogun +550
mousasi +550
king mo +550
forrest/franklin/lil nog: +700 range

i dont think mousasis chances are that much worse than many guys out there. jones just seems so far ahead of everyone, but before he can move on to the next level he needs to prove what we believe is true about him

by ryan daut on Apr 7, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

My lines would all be off the book

At this point, only a hopeless delusional fanboy of whomever Jones is fighting would bet against Jones.

by High Knee Destroyer on Apr 7, 2011 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

At those odds I’d take Anderson, Machida, and probably Davis

"You should work for 15 minutes to knock your opponent out, submit him, or improve your position to give yourself the best chance of doing either." - Dan Hardy

by Day Man on Apr 7, 2011 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Apparently you don’t understand how betting works.

And then God created Saturn ... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
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by James Brady on Apr 7, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Silva should be the best line there

at +200ish. I realize Jones’ wrestling plays right into Silva’s biggest weakness, but this is the P4P greatest we’re talking about, and the best MMA striker on the planet. I also think you’re giving Mousasi too much credit at +550.

Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.

by Dave Strummer on Apr 7, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Silva relies some on his reach to be effective with his striking, he won’t have a reach advantage against Jones. He also relies on head movement to defend against strikes, and given Jones’ height that opens him up to an easy knee to the dome. Worse, he has zero chance of staying on the feet, which also takes away striking from the clinch.

Anderson is my pick for p4p best, but he has almost no chance against Jones. I’d put him under King Mo.

by gzl5000 on Apr 7, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's got jitz too

I think if that fight gets made tomorrow, Anderson gets the best line of any potential competitor. I think Jones would win, but I think Anderson would get the best line.

Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.

by Dave Strummer on Apr 7, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I actually think Machida would have the best line because he has shown with his Judo/Sumo that he is able to keep a fight standing where he would have the advantage

"You should work for 15 minutes to knock your opponent out, submit him, or improve your position to give yourself the best chance of doing either." - Dan Hardy

by Day Man on Apr 7, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Machida would have a pretty decent chance to take it to the mat to

His leg sweeps are pretty surprising and I think he could catch Jones off guard. Jones has already proven that he can out wrestle anybody in the division, let’s see what he can do with some judo/sumo/karate. It’s an interesting match up.

Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
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by Neil Manich on Apr 7, 2011 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

It seems like other than Spider its by far the most interesting match-up they have for Jones. Maybe in a year it might be Phil Davis but right now its Lyoto.

"You should work for 15 minutes to knock your opponent out, submit him, or improve your position to give yourself the best chance of doing either." - Dan Hardy

by Day Man on Apr 7, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Guard does not apply to Jon Jones on the ground. It really doesn’t. Brandon Vera has a much better and more active guard than Anderson (who locks on a body triangle and waits to get stood up most often), and he couldn’t do a thing to Jones.

by gzl5000 on Apr 8, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

what about couture?

when he beats machida, he’s probably next in line after Rashad

coffee's for closers only.... the leads are weak? You're weak...

by Ian Reeves on Apr 7, 2011 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

i wouldnt bet randy at +1000

by ryan daut on Apr 7, 2011 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

not criticizing him at all

actually like his balls here, why fight if you dont wanna fight the champ

"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva

by milk72 on Apr 7, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hehehehehe.

That was my initial reaction to reading this.

Of course, we’re not getting the full story here – what did the interviewer say to lead him to that? Mousasi never says, “Yeah, I’ll beat Jones.” All he says is, “With a few more wins and time, I’d like to fight him.” I’ve got no problem with that.

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by alicks on Apr 7, 2011 2:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Murder in the Octagon

That would be all the news leads after that fight. Mousasi has nothing for Jones in any department

"So he basically called me a Jew. I was confused because I'm black and Methodist."

by rocket8188 on Apr 7, 2011 2:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Seriously?

He’s a much better technical striker than Jones. Keep in mind, he just convincingly beat Kyotaro (one of the top 10 heavyweights in K1) in a K1 match. Mousasi was over rated for a little while, but he’s definitely damn good.

by Hummus5989 on Apr 7, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, which is why I list him as top 10. He’s definitely not better than than Semmy, Overeem or Badr Hari, and there are several other guys floating around that can beat him.

by Hummus5989 on Apr 7, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

That Kyo win

was two weeks after he got brutally beaten by Semmy.

"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."

by TheFilt on Apr 7, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

That fight was hardly brutal

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by Neil Manich on Apr 7, 2011 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

It was a while back

My memory is fuzzy.

I think Kyo did OK for one round and got beat up the rest of the fight.

Either way, those are not ideal conditions going into a fight.

"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."

by TheFilt on Apr 7, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

He clearly lost

But it wasn’t that grueling. I don’t really remember Kyotaro getting hit with anything that surprised him.

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by Neil Manich on Apr 7, 2011 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

It was still 9 minutes

getting hit repeatedly by Schilt.

No one would be close to 100% after that.

"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."

by TheFilt on Apr 7, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gawd, here we go again.

Every opponent Jones faces is a much better technical wrestler and/or striker than Jones and then gets bear-mauled. Rua was supposed to knock Jones into next month. All of his opponents have been Jack-Bauered. Mousasi would be unrecognizable after the beating he would take.

by High Knee Destroyer on Apr 7, 2011 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

hahaha

I want to test myself against in a handicap match against a bengal tiger and the ebola virus.

by High Knee Destroyer on Apr 7, 2011 2:22 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Jon Jones is about to become Fedor/Brock Lesnar. Every fighter withing a shouting distance will be calling him out. Id like to test him…I think i can beat him. Im sry Gegard but Jones would mutilate you. Do you remember the Lawal fight? Just imagine that but with Elbows slicing your face into oblivion

"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant

by MMA_PITBULL on Apr 7, 2011 2:23 PM EDT reply actions  

It seems like its the opposite – most guys try to avoid fighting him.

"You should work for 15 minutes to knock your opponent out, submit him, or improve your position to give yourself the best chance of doing either." - Dan Hardy

by Day Man on Apr 7, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thats guys in the UFC. You know the guys who could actually fight him. Saying you want to fight so and so from another promotion is just getting your name out there, Yes i know Zuffa owns Strikeforce now but Gegard could of left for the UFC when his stock was at its peak. He chose to partner with M1 and Fedor instead go to stirkeforce. Turned out to not be the brightest of moves imo.

"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant

by MMA_PITBULL on Apr 7, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Man

Lots of Mousasi hate for saying he’d take the fight someday. Is it against the fanboy rules to so much as say Super Jones name anymore?

"I am going to punch faces." --Wanderlei Silva
War Miller Bros.

by Jay Bittner on Apr 7, 2011 2:41 PM EDT reply actions  

I'd like to see Mousasi crawl before he thinks about walking.

Honestly I don’t even think he belongs in the 205 division.

by Rob Young on Apr 7, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Honestly I don’t even think he belongs in the 205 division.

Seriously? I would probably take him over any non-elite MMA wrestler at LHW, including Rampage, Griffin, T. Silva, Hendo, Machida and perhaps even Rua.

Lawal did the same thing to Mousasi that he would do to those guys I just listed.

"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne

by The American Ronin on Apr 7, 2011 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would pick him over Rampage and Griffin. Hendo would be a good fight, and he has a chance against Silva, but I thing Machida tools him.

And then God created Saturn ... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
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by James Brady on Apr 7, 2011 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think every fighter should aspire to beating the best in his division

but it just seems a little strange to be putting Jon Jones’ name in his mouth on the eve of a fight that MIGHT get him a title shot against Dan Henderson.

Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.

by Dave Strummer on Apr 7, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hmm...

Is that like Cain saying he could beat (pre-loss)Fedor before his Rothwell fight? Doesn’t seem all that unbelievable anymore. No less, Mousasi is 30-3-1 and has already held the title Hendo has in his hands. So I can’t say I agree with the crawl before you walk stuff. He’s already reached that goal. Just doing it all over again.

"I am going to punch faces." --Wanderlei Silva
War Miller Bros.

by Jay Bittner on Apr 7, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lots of underrating Mousasi going on these days. Just because he got taken down and LnP’d by one of the best wrestlers in the sport, doesn’t mean he’s not real fucking good. Yeah he’d probably lose to Jon Jones, but who wouldn’t? Of course he should aspire to get to a title fight with the current #1 in his weight class eventually, all fighters should! I don’t think see why anyone would ridicule or disrespect that. Yes so his takedown defense is a bit lacking, but his striking is some of the absolute best in the division, and his grappling is also very very good. He’ll beat Jardine, then hopefully fight Hendo and beat him too. After that, who knows? Feijao and Kyle won’t be a problem anyway.

by Horselover Fat on Apr 7, 2011 2:54 PM EDT reply actions  

Feijao can be a problem for anyone

He’s a hulk compared Gegard and has just about equal MMA striking IMO.

"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."

by TheFilt on Apr 7, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well yeah I didn’t mean to dismiss Feijao completely, he’s obviously a very good fighter himself, and as you said he does have some extra size. But honestly I think Mousasi is just all around the better fighter, and definitely the better striker of the two. It would be a very good and entertaining fight if it were to happen though.

by Horselover Fat on Apr 7, 2011 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mousasi has the skill edge

but the size and strength gap might be too much to overcome.

Not to play MMA math, but Gegard looked weak compared to Lawal, who looked weak compared to Feijao. In terms of top control and clinching.

"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."

by TheFilt on Apr 7, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

You may be right, obviously we won’t know until we actually see them fight. As I said I think Mousasi wins, but I can see the argument you’re making too. I was very impressed with Feijao in the Mo fight. But we’ve also learned Mo had wrecked knees in that fight.. and then Feijao lost to the not so big Dan Henderson. Obviously Hendo is a very different fighter from Mousasi, and I’m not trying to discredit Feijao in any way, just in my opinion Mousasi is better, and I’d think he could overcome the size disadvantage against a non-wrestler. Actually Feijao’s best bet would probably be to work the takedowns and top control.. yeah, we’ll see.

by Horselover Fat on Apr 7, 2011 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Like you said

Has the making of an excellent fight.

"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."

by TheFilt on Apr 7, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly. The guy is 30-3-1 and he is only a couple of years older than Jones. People watch an aspect of his game get exploited and forget everything the guy did before. It’s not like he can’t improve on his weakness and he is committed to doing it. The past year has seen him train with GSP, Team Quest, Freddie Roach, Golden Glory, Burt Kop and Fedor. That’s just who we know about. I feel MMA fighters who do their best to learn from all over the world, like GSP does, become incredibly well rounded. And Mousasi is training with some of the best out there. Jones’ style is so sloppy he could easily get clipped by a top notch striker. It’s going to happen someday and Mousasi has as good a chance as any of the guys out there.

by memitim on Apr 7, 2011 3:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Jones' style is sloppy?

A whole lot of fighters would like their style to be as sloppy as Bones. It looked real sloppy against Shogun and Bader.

by chimps on Apr 7, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s incredibly sloppy. He just uses his speed and reach advantage to cover for it. It has worked, for now.

by memitim on Apr 7, 2011 4:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

LOL

Yes, those knees which forced Rua to tap looked amateurish. I can’t believe the UFC keeps Jones on its roster. He’s a sloppy mess.

by High Knee Destroyer on Apr 7, 2011 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you can’t look at Jones’ stand up game and not see that it is sloppy there isn’t much I can do for you. It’s unorthodox and he unleashes blows from all different directions but his footwork is horrible and his hands are all over the place. His reach saves him from a lot of punishment his sloppy stand up game would let thru.

by memitim on Apr 7, 2011 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jones can literally put his hand in someone's face and keep them away indefinitely

His reach saves him from getting into the sort of scraps that would test his standing defense.

by lolumad on Apr 8, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, I agree. I think skill wise Mousasi could be a top 5 LHW, obviously he hasn’t got the wins to prove it just yet though. He is a fighter I respect very much, he has that cold deadly calmness like Fedor, and just a killer skill set to back it up. I really became a fan of his during his run through the MW GP in DREAM, and I with the exception maybe the Lawal fight he has continued to impress me. Taking out Musashi and Kyotaro in K-1 the way he did was also pretty damn great. Definitely one of the most overlooked fighters in the game right now in my opinion. I guess part of that could be Strikeforces fault for having a year between fights for him, and thus taking on somewhat sub-par competiton in DREAM, but still. I really hope we will see him more often fighting top guys in the US now, as he should.

by Horselover Fat on Apr 7, 2011 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

That Dream MWGP was something else. Beating Manhoef and Jacare on the same night is no easy feat.
I just like that Mousasi is traveling all over the world, working with some of the best, to improve his game. That’s what is needed in today’s MMA environment. He already has a great base of skills and I think he has not nearly reached his potential yet.

by memitim on Apr 7, 2011 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s great that people base their opinion of an athlete with 34 professional fights off of one day of his career with the Mo fight.

If you haven’t been around to see most of his career he’s pretty incredible and has the skills to beat anyone at 205.

He’s 17-1 in the past four and a half years…
In this stretch he beat Hector Lombard, Evangelista Santos, Denis Kang, Melvin Manhoef, Jacare, Babalu, and Mark Hunt.

Andre's Posse

by Anr on Apr 7, 2011 2:59 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

The skepticism about his statement has less to do with underrating Mousasi

than it does with correctly rating Jon Jones. Is Mousassi real, real good? Sure. Is he better than Shogun? No way. Are they basically the same kind of fighter? Yup.

Given his struggles to stay upright against a super-talented, but one-dimensional King Mo, it’s not unreasonable to suggest that he’d have a tough time staying upright and conscious against Jones.

Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.

by Dave Strummer on Apr 7, 2011 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shogun and Mousasi really aren’t the same kind of fighter. Shogun is a Muay Thai specialist who uses his kicks as a primary weapon. Mousasi is a boxer with a solid Judo background and above average submission skills. They are very different kinds of fighters. Jones is powerful but he is sloppy. Mousasi has excellent boxing skills and that could prove to be a problem for Jones, especially if Mousasi improves his TDD. And on the ground Mousasi is powerful. Take a look at King Mo’s face after their fight. He won with takedowns but his face was a swollen mess.

by memitim on Apr 7, 2011 3:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

splitting hairs

they’re both extremely talented strikers with good-not-great ground games. Theoretically a good Muay Thai guy should have a better shot at negating Jones’ advantage thanks to his arsenal of leg kicks.

Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.

by Dave Strummer on Apr 7, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Except Shogun’s Muay Thai was completely negated by Jones’ reach so his leg strikes were few and useless. Mousasi, as an excellent boxer, has much better footwork than Jones and could pinpoint his timing against Jones’ sloppy stand up. Shogun was not able to do that. Whoever can take advantage of that aspect of Jones’ game has a good shot of beating him. I think Mousasi is one of them.

by memitim on Apr 7, 2011 4:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Footwork

If your ace in the hole against Jones is footwork, you’ve already lost.

by High Knee Destroyer on Apr 7, 2011 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Eh, I'm not sure about that

There’s the reach issue. There’s the problem with a lot of Muay Thai fighters in MMA always coming forward which Jones’ unorthodox attack fucked with. There’s the wrestling advantage where every time Shogun through a kick he can get put on his back… Mousasi is also a better pure striker than Shogun. The matchup is entirely different.

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by Neil Manich on Apr 7, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shogun has an excellent ground game, with phenomenal Jiu-Jitsu and devastating GnP from the top

But his wrestling is sorely lacking. I hate seeing fighters with hugely diverse offensive repertoires get schooled by people who can toss them around.

by lolumad on Apr 8, 2011 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Mousasi could be a problem if he improves his takedown defense?

He is a good fighter, but if All-American wrestlers who have been wrestling since age 5 can’t stop Jones’ takedowns, Mousasi has no chance in hell. Not if he trains wrestling every day all day for the rest of his career.

If he somehow beats Jones, it won’t be through improvement in TDD, that is a given.

by chimps on Apr 7, 2011 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Judo and wrestling are very different but can be used effectively against each other. Mousasi is a top notch Judoka and if he can learn how to adapt his Judo against wrestlers he can be very effective. Is Jones still going to take him down, sure. But, if Mousasi can position himself well defensively he can threaten with guillotines and other subs once on the ground.

by memitim on Apr 7, 2011 4:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I haven’t seen judo fare too well at the highest levels of MMA since Karo. Seems pretty farfetched to think Mousasi’s judo would or could match up well with Jones.

by chimps on Apr 7, 2011 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Demian Maia too

Talk to Sonnen about that one.

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by Neil Manich on Apr 7, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I haven’t seen Judo fare well either. Fedor just dominated for a decade using it. You understand TDD is about more than just stopping the take down. It’s also about positioning yourself when you do get taken down so you are not in a bad spot, like full mount for example. That’s what I’m talking about. Jones will get his take downs but what happens from there is where the fight is won or lost.

by memitim on Apr 7, 2011 4:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Sambo borrows heavily from Judo. It adds striking but both Fedor and Mousasi are Judo black belts.

by memitim on Apr 7, 2011 4:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

OH OK!

Judo and good footwork will lead him to victory over Jones.

by High Knee Destroyer on Apr 7, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

You clearly don’t get it and you don’t want it explained to you so let’s just move on. Sound good?

by memitim on Apr 7, 2011 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Judo

I like the point, memitim, and I think Judo would be one of the better bases for defending some of Jones clinch takedowns and slams. Not that anyone’s gonna be stuffing Jones left and right, but I would enjoy seeing how that went.

"I am going to punch faces." --Wanderlei Silva
War Miller Bros.

by Jay Bittner on Apr 7, 2011 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I think it is a good base for him to improve against wrestling style take downs. Jones will likely take him down 9 times out of ten but he can make it more difficult. If he improves his sprawls he can at the very least tire him out and set up guillotines, etc. And like I said, part of his defense is winding up in a decent position once on the ground. Gaining strong wrist control, landing in guard, etc.

by memitim on Apr 7, 2011 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

They could actually, I know its fun to troll memitim but you may want to actually think for a moment.

A highly skilled Judo player does well in the clinch, and Jones has never faced someone who can challenge him there. I’m not saying Mousasi can, but someone like Fedor might.

We’ve seen what Jones does to freestyle wrestlers, I don’t think that style is the answer. To beat Jones you need a talented inside fighter with a very strong clinch. Someone with powerful trips and throws fits the latter part of that mold perfectly.

by lolumad on Apr 8, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

But yeah

I think the biggest reason as to why we see so many more MMA fighters utilizing wrestling over judo is becuase we live in North America, or rather the fighters we watch primarily live in North America.

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by Neil Manich on Apr 7, 2011 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Definitely. The UFC employs a lot of American wrestlers because of their marketability here at home. I think that door is going to open a bit wider as they try for more global expansion.

by memitim on Apr 7, 2011 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

He won with takedowns

This would be why I dismiss Mousasi’s chances against Bones.

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by Derek Suboticki on Apr 7, 2011 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Young fighters with high end skills can improve, Derek.

by memitim on Apr 7, 2011 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm basing my opinion of Mousasi at 205 from his actual fights at 205

He subbed Mark Hunt, whoop-dee-do.
He KO’d Babalu (OK he gets props here)
He had lots of trouble with Sokodjou, a guy who would go on to get TKO’d by Minowaman.
He TKO’d Gary Goodridge at Dynamite 09, big deal.
He got dominated by King Mo.
He subbed an overweight, unmotivated Jake O’Brien who just showed up to collect a check (which he’s probably still wating on, lol)
He subbed Tatsuya Mizuno.

Most of Mousasi’s good performances against good fighters happened at 185.

by Rob Young on Apr 7, 2011 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Has there been any indication that his skills are any lesser at 205? In my opinion no, so while his MW fight may not mean anything for strictly ranking purposes, it should still mean a great deal for examining his skills.

by Horselover Fat on Apr 7, 2011 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

He had lots of trouble with Sokodjou, a guy who would go on to get TKO’d by Minowaman.

Did you watch that fight?

The stoppage was a mercy stoppage by the ref to all the fans who had to watch that abortion of a 3rd round.

Both men were completely gassed, circling and clinching each other inneffectively. Minowa drops Suko with a punch, Soko isn’t even out or in a bad spot, just dropped, and the ref stopped the fight. Now, I’m glad the ref stopped the fight, because it had devolved so badly, but Minowa’s “TKO” of Suko definitely needs an asterisk and shouldn’t be used as proof of anything other than the weirdness of JMMA.

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by The Lethal Haze on Apr 7, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Enjoying the fact that Jardine “isn’t a pure wrestler” but then longing for a fight with Bones? Yeah- that’s not gonna work out so well.

by John Danaher's Hair on Apr 7, 2011 3:00 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm still holding out hope for Mousasi to be a big player at 205

If he can shore up his TDD and get more comfortable with his MMA striking, he could hang with anyone. Even if he doesn’t fix his TDD, I’d like to see him against Shogun or Rampage. Shogun/Mousasi is one of my dream fights.

by crazybones on Apr 7, 2011 3:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Why?

2 completely different fighters….they are both black I guess……

Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.

by RolloTomasi on Apr 7, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jones has the takedowns plus a whole lot more to offer.

If Mousasi can’t handle a guy with nothing much but great takedowns to offer, how should he expect to hand with someone who has those takedowns plus more to offer in other aspects of the game.

by Rob Young on Apr 7, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll quote Jay Bittner
Mousasi is ridiculously underrated due to the King Mo fight. A fight in which he did more damage off his back than an extremely talented wrestler could do to him from top position.

Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.

by RolloTomasi on Apr 7, 2011 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

good for him doing damage

he still lost to a gassed wrestler who has had even less fights in MMA than Jones.

http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/

by Cory Braiterman on Apr 7, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

What does the number of fights a fighter has have to do with anything?

Twitter: @FlyByKnite

by FlyByKnight on Apr 7, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

i am implying that lawal, who is even greener than jones is when it comes to mma, was able to defeat sassy

http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/

by Cory Braiterman on Apr 7, 2011 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

The number of fights means nothing, though.

Twitter: @FlyByKnite

by FlyByKnight on Apr 7, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

it does, but this entire argument is still a load of bullshit

from every angle. You shmoes started some ridiculous semantics argument that you’re branching out into any direction possible to try and make a point because your original one is still bupkis. You’re wrong. On every level. The hair splitting is stupid and still wrong. Get back to the article and maybe we’ll have something worth discussing.

http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/

by Cory Braiterman on Apr 7, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m failing to see how the number of fights a fighter has means something about how green they are. Some guys pick up things faster than others therefore they improve at a far more rapid rate and get to accomplishments faster. BJ Penn fought for the UFC Lightweight Championship in just his 4th professional fight. Brock Lesnar fought for the UFC Heavyweight Championship in just his 4th professional fight. Same thing with Randy Couture. Guys might be “green” based on the number of fights they have but might be well beyond their years based on what they can learn and adapt to. The number of fights a guy has doesn’t matter. It’s like saying the number of losses a guy has matters when comparing two guys. If that was the case, Rampage would have lost to Chuck when they fought for the title.

Twitter: @FlyByKnite

by FlyByKnight on Apr 7, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mo is nothing like Jones when in top position.

I’m not saying Mousasi has no chance. I’m just saying, it’s unlikely he would win.

by pud333 on Apr 7, 2011 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well said.

Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.

by RolloTomasi on Apr 7, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

To an extent,

FlyByKnight- I simply don’t agree with the assessment that Jones isn’t skilled. He definitely has an interesting build, but it’s his skills that allow him to maximize his physical abilities. The dude is incredibly skilled. His takedowns are unreal, nobody can take the guy down (despite all the high level wrestlers he’s fought), and his strikes are powerful, fast, accurate, and widely varied/ unpredictable.

Mousasi is great, but his striking (from a standing position, at least) hasn’t fully translated. I’ve NEVER seen the guy who dominated Kyotaro show up in an MMA fight. In an MMA context, his striking on the ground is far superior to his striking at range/ in the clinch. Gegard also has good takedowns and submissions. I don’t think his takedown defense is as bad as the Mo fight suggest, I think he just adopted the wrong strategy (I think he probably figured it wouldn’t be worth wasting his energy defending takedowns, and was far too happy to just work from his back).

He’s definitely a threat to Jones, but I would like to see his striking start to cross over to MMA, and he would also need to have a much better strategy for a fight with Jones.

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by ElliotMatheny on Apr 8, 2011 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

Mousasi is ridiculously underrated due to the King Mo fight. A fight in which he did more damage off his back than an extremely talented wrestler could do to him from top position.

"I am going to punch faces." --Wanderlei Silva
War Miller Bros.

by Jay Bittner on Apr 7, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jones is more skilled than Mousasi

And the skill that is his trump card is wrestling, Gegard’s arch-nemesis

You retired from kick boxing in 2006. If you had to do it all over again, would you have tried fighting in MMA?

Jean-Charles Skarbowsky: No.

by rockied on Apr 7, 2011 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

No it's not.

Geguard has shown waaay more tools to win fights, he even beat the Japanes K-1 champ in a K-1 fight.
The problem for Mous is Jones has a crazy reach advantage and better wrestling.
Mous has more subs/ko’s then Jones but Jones has the size speed to give anyone trouble.

Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.

by RolloTomasi on Apr 7, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

So would you make that argument

if Jones had also beat a K1 champ in K1? Dunno, eh’s never had that fight, so it’s not a quantifiable comparison. You can’t compare grapefruits and turnips. Compare like vs like.

http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/

by Cory Braiterman on Apr 7, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Woah woah woah

If I had a magic ass that shit gold I’d be rich.
Jones WILL NEVER win K-1.

Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.

by RolloTomasi on Apr 7, 2011 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

how do you know that?

if he never competes at it? We can guess, but we can’t actually know unless there’s an attempt to be made.

http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/

by Cory Braiterman on Apr 7, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Based on what I've seen from his striking

he would get face fucked in K-1
To compete in K-1 you need to be extremely technical.
Jones is a wild greco kickboxer. He would get smashed by someone like Gokan Saki.

Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.

by RolloTomasi on Apr 7, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

until he lands some wild and crazy flying knee and has his hands raised

however, we will never know, so to bring that up is pointless. Again, compare likes vs likes.

http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/

by Cory Braiterman on Apr 7, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm comparing Mous to Jones.

Mous is more skilled (K-1, Sambo, ect)
Jones is more talented (Reach, size, speed)

Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.

by RolloTomasi on Apr 7, 2011 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jones is more skilled

Wrestling, takedowns, integrated striking, muay thai

I can play this game of WTF KNOWS too

http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/

by Cory Braiterman on Apr 7, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do I think he will?

Nope. Might he? We’ll never fucking know because he isn’t fighting K1.

http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/

by Cory Braiterman on Apr 7, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

except we know exactly how he fared

when up against a wrestler. he got wrestlefucked into a loss. We do, however, know what happens when Jones faces a great striker. He won and beat him standing.

HOORAY FOR MORE MMAWHATIFS! This should go right next to MMATH

http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/

by Cory Braiterman on Apr 7, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mousasi is a different kind of striker than Shogun

And I would argue better although that is beside the point.

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Head Kick Legend

by Neil Manich on Apr 7, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Why are you descending into dick mode?

As if criticizing Jones is blasphemy.

Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.

by RolloTomasi on Apr 7, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

this has nothing to do with being a dick or saying you can't hate Jones

IF you looked at the start of this thread, this was about saying that Jones was not skilled and merely big and strong, which I and others are pointing out that is complete and utter bullshit. Stating that Mousasi is clearly more skilled then he is when there’s no actual measuring stick to do so is stupid and thus this entire waste of everyone’s time.

http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/

by Cory Braiterman on Apr 7, 2011 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

You do realize Jones utilizes a completely different wrestling style than Mo, right?

Greco =/= Freestlyle

Jones has a few excellent freestlye takedowns from the outside, but the majority of his best work is done in the clinch. He doesn’t smother from guard, he lands in side control after a throw and works for the finish.

He’s very skilled in the clinch, and from the top, but his striking is effective due to a good sense of timing and his opponent’s fear of the takdown, mixed with an inhuman reach advantage. If he threw that crazy shit in K-1 he’d be either unconscious in short order, or his legs would be kicked in half.

by lolumad on Apr 8, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Thank you!

Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.

by RolloTomasi on Apr 7, 2011 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

No it's not.

Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend

by Neil Manich on Apr 7, 2011 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jones is not more skilled than Mousasi. People just think he is. They mistake his sheer size, length, and strength for skills. Those aren’t skills. Natural ability isn’t a skill. It’s a talent. Skill didn’t beat Shogun. It was size and reach.

Twitter: @FlyByKnite

by FlyByKnight on Apr 7, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Meant to say “It’s not a talent either” but for some reason I didn’t complete the full sentence.

Twitter: @FlyByKnite

by FlyByKnight on Apr 7, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

that, too, is a ridiculous semantics argument

and completely unquantifiable

http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/

by Cory Braiterman on Apr 7, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

So you can’t quantify that Jones’ reach and size won him the Shogun fight?

Twitter: @FlyByKnite

by FlyByKnight on Apr 7, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

not at all

his skill in training wrestling, bjj, boxing, takedowns and other mma skills won him that fight.

http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/

by Cory Braiterman on Apr 7, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can say a flying knee really hurt Shogun in the first, and a huge bodyshot dropped him to complete the domination. I can’t say that his size and reach won the fight because it isn’t the ultimate tallman championship. His skills won him the fight.

You retired from kick boxing in 2006. If you had to do it all over again, would you have tried fighting in MMA?

Jean-Charles Skarbowsky: No.

by rockied on Apr 7, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

The flying knee hurt Shogun but that falls under my wild and unorthodox striking point. The body shot was just the end of the beating. Shogun would have fallen from a toe tap at that point. I was disappointed Jones couldn’t finish him on the ground and actually had to follow Shogun back up to his feet. Jones’ elbows are his only true finishing weapon.

Twitter: @FlyByKnite

by FlyByKnight on Apr 7, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did I say I was disappointed with Jones as a whole in that fight? No. Just disappointed that he actually couldn’t finish Shogun on the ground when Shogun wasn’t doing much besides laying there.

Twitter: @FlyByKnite

by FlyByKnight on Apr 7, 2011 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

you mean how he finished him with

an uppercut and a knee? Clearly he only has one weapon

http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/

by Cory Braiterman on Apr 7, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shogun was done long before that. Let’s not act like he wasn’t. Anyone who objectively watched that fight saw Shogun was done even before he stood up. Jones just couldn’t put him away until a tad later.

Twitter: @FlyByKnite

by FlyByKnight on Apr 7, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

As someone who watched that fight live

I can safely say he was done when the first strike landed, a flying knee. For the record, I had money on Rua in that fight even. He was a great bet as an underdog. I can objectively note that Jones is just that much better and his odds of winning that fight should a rematch ever happen would be infinitely higher, as they should be.

http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/

by Cory Braiterman on Apr 7, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

The first part is highly debatable. The second part isn’t. Jones probably wins the rematch for the same reasons he won the first fight. Jones still isn’t that skilled. He’s getting there but he’s at like 25% of his true potential. His natural athleticism, size, length, and all that jazz got him this far as did his great wrestling. Now we have to see him add skills to his measurables. It reminds me of Lesnar a little bit. Big, strong, long, and powerful. If he gets you down and gets on top of you, you’re pretty much in for a long night. Like Lesnar, Jones will find his kryptonite.

Twitter: @FlyByKnite

by FlyByKnight on Apr 7, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Umm...

Last time i checked shogun had never been tko’d or ko’d up until Jones did it. Nuff said.

by J smooth 420 on Apr 7, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’d say his skill is 30% and the rest is 70%.

by SpinningFistback on Apr 7, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jones beat Shogun standing due to reach and length advantages. Shogun couldn’t get inside Jones’ legs nor come close to hitting him with something clean for the vast majority of that fight due to the incredible advantage Jones possessed with his length.

Twitter: @FlyByKnite

by FlyByKnight on Apr 7, 2011 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

he beat him

because he beat the tar out of him in every aspect of the game. Every time shogun closed the distance, he got taken down and abused.

http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/

by Cory Braiterman on Apr 7, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shogun got outwrestled. That’s not a shock. He got beat standing because of Jones’ superior length, though. Let’s not kid ourselves.

Twitter: @FlyByKnite

by FlyByKnight on Apr 7, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why did Bader get out-wrestled?

was that length too?

Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.

by Dave Strummer on Apr 7, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

His wrestling and top control are skills. His natural appearance is not.

Twitter: @FlyByKnite

by FlyByKnight on Apr 7, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

so what's the argument again?

I like strikers more than anyone, but I think every rational MMA observer agrees that top-control wrestling has become the most important skill to cultivate in order to succeed in the sport.

Jones is, unquestionably, the best wrestler in his division. He might be the best wrestler in the sport. Mousassi is a nice striker, but not as good as the guy Jones just mauled. So how again is Mousassi more skilled than Jones?

Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.

by Dave Strummer on Apr 7, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

What skills does Jones have? Let’s just start there. It’s a shorter list for us to deal with.

Twitter: @FlyByKnite

by FlyByKnight on Apr 7, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

How are you going to call Jones “highly competent” at grappling but only call Mousasi “decent”? Tha fuck?!

Twitter: @FlyByKnite

by FlyByKnight on Apr 7, 2011 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Because he beat Shogun up in the grappling realm. And... Oh right, everyone else he's ever faced.

"Rather than love, than money, than faith, than fame, than fairness... give me truth."
Chris McCandless A.K.A. Alexander Supertramp
1968-1992

by T.C. Engel on Apr 7, 2011 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you consider top control 2

Than Mousasi is completely kick ass at it.

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by Neil Manich on Apr 7, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pretty much.

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by Derek Suboticki on Apr 7, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

What a ridiculous argument you have

By this logic, Jon Jones would have beat Shogun in his first MMA fight. Hell Jones could of walked off the street and beat one of the best fighters in the world and become UFC Champion! Why does he even train at all?

After all, he’s had the same reach and height since he completed puberty. I can’t wait for Kobe Bryant to retire, walk into an NBA arena and break people’s orbital bones. Ya’ know? With his height

"Tact is the knack of making a point without making an enemy."
~Sir Isaac Newton~

by warren305 on Apr 7, 2011 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

*UFC

"Tact is the knack of making a point without making an enemy."
~Sir Isaac Newton~

by warren305 on Apr 7, 2011 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

it wasn't length that landed that flying knee

or the uppercut/muay thai knee that made Shogun tap as Dean called it.

http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/

by Cory Braiterman on Apr 7, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

You obviously don’t understand what I’m getting at. Is Jones skilled? Yes. Where have I said he isn’t a skilled fighter? I’d hope he’s skilled if he’s running through people like this. I just didn’t view his victory over Shogun as a pure skills victory. The wrestling and top control aspect were. The striking aspect really wasn’t.

Twitter: @FlyByKnite

by FlyByKnight on Apr 7, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

You repeatedly downplayed his skillset and intelligence

by saying his length allows him the batter Shogun fucking Rua.

Do you think he hasn’t worked hard to learn to use his range better?

Do think Jones’ fight IQ is not a big factor in his success?

"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."

by TheFilt on Apr 7, 2011 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

“What skills does Jones have? Let’s just start there. It’s a shorter list for us to deal with.”

by FlyByKnight on Apr 7, 2011 3:00 PM CDT

"Tact is the knack of making a point without making an enemy."
~Sir Isaac Newton~

by warren305 on Apr 7, 2011 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

bingo

http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/

by Cory Braiterman on Apr 7, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good for Jones that talent wins

I will never understand MMA fans’ obsession with obsessing over who would win if we could equalize athleticism. David Lee is way more “skilled” than Dwight Howard, who gives a fuck?

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Apr 7, 2011 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

well said. You need both to win, and there’s no reason to hate on a guy for exactly what proportion of each he uses.

I consider myself a softcore fan.

by Thor77 on Apr 7, 2011 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let’s not act like Mousasi has zero chance. Jones isn’t more skilled than Mousasi. He’s just longer and bigger. That’s all it is. Mousasi has the skill advantage.

implying that Jones is somehow solely where he is by being longer and bigger. That is an incredibly stupid argument to make. Hong Man Choi is longer and bigger. The difference is that he is actually unskilled as an MMA fighter, whereas Jones has tons of training and skill. His wrestling and takedowns are leagues beyond Sassy’s. Could Gegard possibly beat him? Sure, this is MMA, he’s not some dipshit can. 9 times out of 10, and possibly more, Jones would almost certainly take this fight, and I will happily bet money, sig bets and whatever else you like on it should this fight ever happen.

http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/

by Cory Braiterman on Apr 7, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Choi was a bad comparison.. he’s a slow oversized heavyweight. People who are too big have a coordination and speed disadvantage. Jones has a perfect frame, he’s got the reach and the speed.

by SpinningFistback on Apr 7, 2011 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

You’re mistaking me saying that Jones isn’t more skilled than Mousasi for me saying that Jones has zero skill. Jones has skill. It lies in his wrestling and top control. That’s it. His striking isn’t a true skill yet. It’s just wild and unorthodox. That’s not a skill. There’s no denying where Jones wants this fight. He wants it inside your guard where he can unleash his only legitimate weapon that stops fights; his elbows.

Twitter: @FlyByKnite

by FlyByKnight on Apr 7, 2011 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

because shogun didn't tap to strikes?

because he didn’t land that huge flying knee in the very first seconds? jones has done quite well in the striking game in all of his fights.

http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/

by Cory Braiterman on Apr 7, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Like I said, the flying knee is a wild and unorthodox strike. Is it effective? Sure. It’s the same as a spinning back fist, though.

Twitter: @FlyByKnite

by FlyByKnight on Apr 7, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

you keep saying that

yet he keeps landing with it and keeps doing damage. perhaps it should be part of the orthodoxy if its so effective? HE OUTSTRUCK shogun. He outclassed him in every aspect of that fight.

http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/

by Cory Braiterman on Apr 7, 2011 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

You’re acting like I’m saying Jones sucks. Have I said that? No. I’m simply saying he’s not more skilled than Mousasi. And he’s not. He’s taller, bigger, longer, and (probably) stronger. Those aren’t true MMA skills. His wrestling and top control are skills. His natural appearance is not. His striking could become a true skill but it’s not there yet.

Twitter: @FlyByKnite

by FlyByKnight on Apr 7, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

those are very much a part of MMA skills

That is the human body. That is the essence of Martial Arts. People train for years to become strong. People train for years on how to use their body effectively. How much shit does Struve get for being 6’19" and not using his jab effectively? His striking is a huge asset, as he’s… ya know… winning fights with it.

http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/

by Cory Braiterman on Apr 7, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Name a fight that Jon Jones has finished due to his pure striking abilities. I’ll wait. And I’m not talking about a fight like the Shogun one where he decimated Shogun on the ground with elbows.

Twitter: @FlyByKnite

by FlyByKnight on Apr 7, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

he got decimated by a lot of other things than just elbows

knees. backhands. slams. punches. I don’t need to pick out some specific incidence of “sole striking wins”, although the shogun win is up there, this is MMA. Jones incorporates his skill and talents into a better overall game than anyone in that division is currently doing, including Mousasi

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by Cory Braiterman on Apr 7, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

You could say that about anyone who was ever champion, though. That last part I mean. You could have said that about Shogun after he beat Machida, Machida after he beat Rashad, Rashad after he beat Forrest, Forrest after he beat Rampage, and so on and so forth. There’s always going to be one guy out there with the perfect size/skills to present problems for you. It’ll just take longer to find the guy for Jones simply because of the size. Jones’ boxing is pretty bad. His kicks are good, though. He’s a solid striker but nothing that I’d sit back and be in awe of. His wrestling is his bread and butter. That’s what’s gotten him this far. His takedowns are great. His top game is superb. I like the guy. I’m just ready to crown him as some unstoppable force that’ll never be defeated. He hasn’t earned that right yet. Maybe in another two or three years. We’ll see, though.

Twitter: @FlyByKnite

by FlyByKnight on Apr 7, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

To paraphrase:

Jones is highly effective in striking. “But its not true skill yet”.

That may be the dumbest thing I’ve ever read. Why don’t you just say that Jones has room to improve (scary) and call it a day

"Tact is the knack of making a point without making an enemy."
~Sir Isaac Newton~

by warren305 on Apr 7, 2011 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

He beat Jake O’Brien with a spinning back elbow followed by a standing guillotine choke. Not a single take down attempt, that I can remember.

"Tact is the knack of making a point without making an enemy."
~Sir Isaac Newton~

by warren305 on Apr 7, 2011 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Correct,

although he stuffed 5 or 6 that O’Brien tried.

"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne

by The American Ronin on Apr 7, 2011 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fine, I'm foolish

Translation: it’s foolish to acknowledge reality.

I was foolish to think Jones would destroy Vera, The Janitor, Bader, Hamill, Rua, etc. I’m always foolish. Well, since being right is foolish, I’ll accept the badge with pride.

by High Knee Destroyer on Apr 7, 2011 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jones is terrible on his feet. He never wins by anything other than top control.



Oh, and he can’t finish anyone either

http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/

by Cory Braiterman on Apr 7, 2011 3:57 PM EDT reply actions  

Nobody has said any of the things you're trying to bring up

This whole conversation is dumb as hell.

Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend

by Neil Manich on Apr 7, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

actually

they have. Except for the “can’t finish” line. I embellished that one myself.

http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/

by Cory Braiterman on Apr 7, 2011 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lol at you showing clips of two fights he didn’t even finish, another where the guy was clearly out far before the final two blows, and a guy that he subbed. Sweet. You really won this argument. Lol.

By the way, Bonnar outstruck Jones in the 3rd round of their fight. Just sayin’.

Twitter: @FlyByKnite

by FlyByKnight on Apr 7, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Where did I say Jones couldn’t (or wouldn’t) improve?

Twitter: @FlyByKnite

by FlyByKnight on Apr 7, 2011 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

you reference the Bonnar fight as evidence for his supposed lack of striking skill. To me, all of those gifs show skills that have been trained successfully, and successfully implemented in an actual fight.

Does Jones have more striking skill than Mousasi? I would doubt it. Is Jones more skilled overall than Mousasi, keeping in mind the fact that wrestling and grappling are both skills? I would argue yes. Even watching that BJJ competition he was involved in at age 20, he flashed some great skills that aren’t just length and size.

by chimps on Apr 7, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

my point also being, the Jones we saw against Bonnar was not the Jones we saw against Shogun. His striking is clearly improving very quickly.

by chimps on Apr 7, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jones still hasnt fixed his footwork in a few fights.

lack of progress

by Discman2 on Apr 7, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

yup, shame on me for showing fights he won

oh wait, maybe I should show the Hammil fight, he “lost” that one. He showed no skill in that as well, abusing a solid MMA wrestler with a good record.

http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/

by Cory Braiterman on Apr 7, 2011 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't understand

Why is it such an issue that some of us think it might be a good competitive matchup a couple years from now?

"I am going to punch faces." --Wanderlei Silva
War Miller Bros.

by Jay Bittner on Apr 7, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

those aren't skills

those are just sloppy things that happened in fights and were never practiced, trained, and drilled. Duh.

by chimps on Apr 7, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

One of these days a striker with excellent timing is going to anticipate one of those spinning elbows, duck under it, and deposit him on the moon with a Tiger Uppercut.

by memitim on Apr 7, 2011 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shogun saw and timed one, but made a poor decision in what he attempted.

"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne

by The American Ronin on Apr 7, 2011 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

You be sure to let us know when that happens, ok?

by High Knee Destroyer on Apr 8, 2011 7:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

I won’t have to. When it happens you’ll know.

by memitim on Apr 9, 2011 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’d like to see this fight; even if the most likely outcome is Mousasi on his back eating elbows, at least he actually has tools he could use to beat Jones.

It’s going to be interesting to follow Mousasi over the next few years. The match making he’s going to have to face will be the total opposite of the match making he’s faced in the past. I’m not trying to imply that he hasn’t fought tough fighters, just that when you fight for Zuffa and you show a weakness in your game, there’s a good chance that weakness is going to be tested regularly, if not in your next fight. The most vivid example of this is the recent careers of the Diaz brothers.

by Jahbulon on Apr 7, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions  

And that sums it up.

Twitter: @FlyByKnite

by FlyByKnight on Apr 7, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Et Tu Brute?

I’m not minimizing Mousasi’s talents or accomplishments, but to call Jones a “freak” and leave it at that is borderline insulting.

He obviously has amazing physical gifts, but his performances have shown a technical brilliance and aptitude that totally belie his age and experience level.

Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.

by Dave Strummer on Apr 7, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

He improves every fight

Before the Shogun fight he pretty much sucked at using his length, but then, boom, he absolutely demolishes Shogun because a slow Shogun could never get inside. He’s always improving. But that doesn’t mean his game isn’t filled with holes, they are just holes that you can’t get to. There’s a good chance he might one day be as technical as Mousasi, but that time isn’t now. Do you remember the little foot sweep Gegard pulled on Soukodjou? That’s the kind of thing Jones is still watching on youtube.

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Head Kick Legend

by Neil Manich on Apr 7, 2011 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

While every fighter has holes

Pulling one technique Gegard used and saying Jones can’t do it is unfair. You can say the same with Jones. You remember that suplex Jones hit on Bonnar? Gegard is still watching that on youtube, in a Jones highlight.

Both are incredibly talented monsters, and I would watch a fight between them like I would watch any other fight either of them are in. But in conclusion I would say both are freaks and both are technical marvels, just at different facets of the game.

You retired from kick boxing in 2006. If you had to do it all over again, would you have tried fighting in MMA?

Jean-Charles Skarbowsky: No.

by rockied on Apr 7, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

The difference is this

Mousasi can’t do that because he doesn’t have the physical tools. Jones can’t do the other because he hasn’t learned it yet. The youtube thing wasn’t meant to be derogatory, just a reference to how Jones said he learned that back spinning elbow on youtube before he started working with Jackson.

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Head Kick Legend

by Neil Manich on Apr 7, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s absolutely fine. Mousasi has much more experience and does have a wider variety of tools at his disposal. I mistook the youtube reference as a slight against Bones.

What I’m excited for is when Bones has a couple more years seasoning to youtube shit he wants to “try” in a fight.

You retired from kick boxing in 2006. If you had to do it all over again, would you have tried fighting in MMA?

Jean-Charles Skarbowsky: No.

by rockied on Apr 7, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah,

Jones is still green. I don’t see how saying that is disrespecting him. He’s the champion, and he’s still a little green.

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Head Kick Legend

by Neil Manich on Apr 7, 2011 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Have you seen the Greco/judo throw Bones used in that old grappling video? Or the suplex he used in his first MMA fight? Or the throws against Bonnar? Sick skills. BTW, that front kick he used on Shogun’s face was almost was a huge strike. A couple of inches, and we are directly comparing him to Anderson Silva, who rightly gets mad props for his skills.

I also like Mousasi and think the guy has skills, but it strikes me that people (not necessarily you) want to subtly discredit Jones accomplishments. The guy obviously works incredibly hard, trains hard, has great coaching, and learns at a much, much faster rate than most people.

by chimps on Apr 7, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jones is an athletic freak with an incredible ability to integrate new things into his game and an elite fight IQ and elite work ethic.

"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne

by The American Ronin on Apr 7, 2011 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

All true

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Head Kick Legend

by Neil Manich on Apr 8, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mousasi takes it over 5 rounds.

all you Jones huggers need to get off his Bone, he’s just as susceptible to punishment as anyone

by FCC_bigE on Apr 7, 2011 4:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Bahahaha

Thanks, you’re the Jim Cramer of MMA analysis.

by High Knee Destroyer on Apr 7, 2011 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well there are two separate questions:

1) Can Jones be beat?
and
2) Can Mousasi beat Jones?

History tells us that the answer to 1 is clearly yes. In the arms race that is MMA everybody eventually gets figured out, or caught sleeping or both.

As for 2, a little while ago on this site someone put up a mural of 14 or so fighters and ranked them in order of who had the best shot at Jones. I don’t think Mousasi was even on the mural. At this point it’s not at all clear that he’s the best LHW fighter in Strikeforce, much less MMA. I think Jones fustigates him every day of the week.

Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.

by Dave Strummer on Apr 7, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just like pre-Machida/Shogun 1 the talk was that Shogun wasn’t really “in the picture” as far as guys who should get a shot or have the kind of game to derail Lyoto.

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 7, 2011 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

To be clear. I’d pick Jones to beat Mousasi. But every single fighter whose name comes up now is met with “JONES WOULD KILL HIM! IT’D BE DEATH IN THE CAGE!”

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 7, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, the tone is a bit strong

but the underlying point about Mousasi — that he’s not the best archetype of a fighter to beat Jones — is valid. A guy who is probably a little undersized for the division and who has a tough time staying upright against wrestlers is not exactly a stylistic problem for Jones.

Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.

by Dave Strummer on Apr 7, 2011 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're crazy.

Jon Jones could be K-1 champ

Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.

by RolloTomasi on Apr 7, 2011 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

he could quarterback the Panthers to the Super Bowl next year, don't underestimate him

"Rather than love, than money, than faith, than fame, than fairness... give me truth."
Chris McCandless A.K.A. Alexander Supertramp
1968-1992

by T.C. Engel on Apr 7, 2011 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

If I remember correctly though

That picture was pretty much just Rampage. And even then people thought he was ducking Machida

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Head Kick Legend

by Neil Manich on Apr 7, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Couture’s name got thrown around a lot too as someone who may be able to grind out a few rounds.

Regardless, that kind of proves the point. Almost no one was seen as having a chance to beat Machida because of his unique style…which…that’s where we’re headed again.

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 7, 2011 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

While this is undoubtably true, and a valid comparison in many ways, I think

Jones being young and green, along with being elite (and arguably the best at any weight class) in the most valuable MMA skill under the URs (true MMA Wrestling), combined with very serviceable stand-up is very different than Machida.

The funny thing about all of this is that, should Jones have 2-3 more dominant victories against the top guys, people will view LHW more as they do MW (shallow), when in reality both are deep and varied but the guy at the top makes it look shallow by comparison.

"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne

by The American Ronin on Apr 7, 2011 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

My thoughts exactly Brent, very well put.

Andre's Posse

by Anr on Apr 7, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree completely.

http://www.headkicklegend.com/

"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates

by ElliotMatheny on Apr 8, 2011 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

I personally am just very happy that Mousasi may actually have aspirations related to MMA.

He’s always seemed like a guy who just fights to fight, doesn’t really have title aspirations, doesn’t want to be the best, etc.

And then God created Saturn ... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
SaberCats Examiner | SB Nation Bay Area | Niners Nation | Twitter

by James Brady on Apr 7, 2011 5:19 PM EDT reply actions  

Me too

I really wanna see him fighting top competition regularly, I’m a big fan.

"I am going to punch faces." --Wanderlei Silva
War Miller Bros.

by Jay Bittner on Apr 7, 2011 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ripping on Jones?

I honestly have not seen very much ripping on Jones at all. I’ve seen varying takes on his skillset/athleticism, all while people are openly acknowledging he is the current best 205 lb. fighter in MMA. People saying a fight with Gegard would be interesting and justifying that is not ripping on him. Actually, the majority of insults I saw in the thread were directed at Gegard for mentioning eventually fighting Jones(it’s apparently not allowed.).

"I am going to punch faces." --Wanderlei Silva
War Miller Bros.

by Jay Bittner on Apr 7, 2011 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Nick, you're killing me

Even Diaz thinks Daley can knock him out.

Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.

by Dave Strummer on Apr 8, 2011 3:39 PM EDT reply actions  

And that is the threat of tabbed browsing.

Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.

by Dave Strummer on Apr 8, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ha! You and me both…

"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne

by The American Ronin on Apr 8, 2011 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mousasi WILL DESTROY Jon Jones!!!

MOUSASI Will DeStRoY Jon Bonni Jones!!! I Repeat… MOUSASI Will DeStRoY Jon Bonni Jones!!! :)

by Rammmer on Apr 8, 2011 4:14 PM EDT reply actions  

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