Mayhem Miller Talks UFC While Remaining in Strikeforce Limbo
by Nate Wilcox on Apr 5, 2011 12:21 AM EDT
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Jason "Mayhem" Miller hasn't fought on the main card of a Strikeforce event since November 2009 when he lost a five round title fight to Jake Shields on CBS. Well, he did get involved in one fracas on the April 2010 card, but he wasn't being paid to fight. I'm referring, of course, to the infamous "these things happen in MMA" brawl between Miller and the entire Cesar Gracie team -- Jake Shields, Gilbert Melendez, Nate Diaz and Nick Diaz.
Miller fought on the undercard of that event against Tim Stout, since then he's faced Kazushi Sakuraba at Dream 16 in September. He had been expected to face Tim Kennedy in March, but he was dropped from that card with no explanation from Stikeforce.
He spoke to Mike Chiappetta about his situation and his thoughts on the UFC middleweight division, including the prospect of Chael Sonnen and Michael Bisping coaching The Ultimate Fighter, and his nemesis Nick Diaz:
"I will beat the brakes off most of the guys in the middleweight divisions in the UFC," he said. "I guaran-damn-tee it."
...
"First of all, I'm glad that the Ultimate Fighter is getting back on track by putting two guys who are going to be absolutely entertaining on the television," he said. "You got the Republitard vs. The Limey. It's going to be great. It's a step in the right direction. But I still say, give me a break. I'm way more entertaining, and I'll beat both of those guys up."
...
"We're way past (talk of a Mayhem vs Nick Diaz bout). Nick ducked. I don't even care about fighting him anymore. He just showed who he was with this whole thing. I don't even want to talk about it, it's so ridiculous."
There had been extensive rumors of Miller leaving Strikeforce to sign with the UFC even before the Zuffa acquisition of Strikeforce. I hope to see Mayhem in the Octagon sooner rather than later.
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Here's hoping...
I wouldn’t mind seeing mayhem more often. Plus, he is the perfect foil to a doucher like Sonnen.
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe."
- Frank Zappa
Mayhem
would get dominated by Sonnen, but the pre- fight hype storm would be nuts.
In Diaz’ defense, I think it serves him better to fight in his own weight division against guys like Semtex. I don’t think he ducked Mayhem, so much as chose a different path.
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 5, 2011 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I’ll take a sig bet with you if they ever fight that Mayhem subs Sonnen…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Apr 5, 2011 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
Alright man.
Not too passionate about the fight either way, but Mayhem has never been a submission wiz from his back (which is where he would be for 99.9% of the fight).
I don’t see the fight going much different from their first match.
Loss Chael Sonnen Decision HFP 1 – Rumble on the Reservation 2002-03-30 Round 2 5:00 United States
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 5, 2011 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Loss Chael Sonnen Decision HFP 1 – Rumble on the Reservation 2002-03-30 Round 2 5:00 United States
That was 9 years ago, just after Miller turned 21, and before any serious BJJ training. Zero relevance to today. Sonnen’s unwillingness or inability to pass guard would lead to him being submitted imo.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Apr 5, 2011 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Fair enough,
the fight was definitely a long time ago. From the way both men have progressed though, I don’t see it being too much different. Sonnen has only been submitted by elite submission artists these days, and I don’t think Mayhem has particularly dangerous submissions from his back.
Marquardt & Dan Miller have better submissions from their back than Mayhem IMO (particularly their guillotines), and Chael was able to fend them off. Could Mayhem sub Chael? Sure, but I don’t see that as being the most likely outcome.
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 5, 2011 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree with pretty much everything you two said...
except, guillotines aside, Mayhem is way more slick off his back than either Marquardt or D.Miller.
Hmm
I wouldn’t say he’s much better than either man. The common theme among all of his losses are that he can be defeated with takedowns and top control.
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 5, 2011 2:24 AM EDT up reply actions
marquardt and dan miller offer nothing off of their backs. Mayhem does
"That's racism man, I love to racism bro!"
by Hendo_One-Shot on Apr 5, 2011 2:34 AM EDT up reply actions
The common theme among all of his losses are that he can be defeated with takedowns and top control.
Idk why people keep saying this. Both of his losses since the Trigg (to Shields and Jacare) were ones where he was ultimately out-grappled, but he took each of them down multiple times as well and was never just stuck on his back like Anderson under Sonnen.
Jacare would pass to side control or mount and Mayhem would be out and scrambling (not just back to guard) within 8-10 seconds every time. He took Shields down repeatedly and had positional advantage on him numerous times.
Jacare fight was a little more one-sided imo, although he was never stuck under his top control for any length of time, but there is no MW or below in the UFC Jacare couldn’t and wouldn’t out-grapple.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Apr 5, 2011 2:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Maia would give him a run for his money,
Palhares too IMO.
As for Mayhem, yes- he was competitive in those fights, but you can’t deny that his losses (Sonnen, GSP, Kennedy, Jacare, Shields) were due to his opponent’s top control based strategy.
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 5, 2011 3:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, but Shields barely survived a submission attempt, and he has fantastic BJJ, Sonnen has zero BJJ to speak of.
And then God created Saturn ... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
SaberCats Examiner | SB Nation Bay Area | Niners Nation | Twitter
If Mayhem
could get on top of Sonnen, with ample time to work, it might be trouble for Chael. But on top, I don’t consider Mayhem to have the submissions or sweeps to stop Chael from beating him up in his guard.
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 5, 2011 4:24 AM EDT up reply actions
It would hardly be domination. Chael has no jits and would inflict very little damage from Mayhem’s guard. Mayhem’s guard is pretty flexible and he’s very good at staying out of harms way. Plus, he didnt get dominated by Shields, nor would I say were the Jacare fights ‘Dominations’. The other examples (Sonnen, GSP) were from ages ago pre BJJ blackbelt and he’s improved a shit ton. Even his strikin has improved.
The prefight would also be awesome.
Miller, Marquardt, and Okami
are all generally good at avoiding taking much damage from their backs, and Sonnen laid a beating on all of them regardless. I don’t think Chael would finish Mayhem, but I definitely think he would take him down repeatedly and rough him up from top position. Mayhem’s a good fighter, but unless he could get a hail mary submission, I see him losing just like he has his entire career.
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 5, 2011 5:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Did Marquardt really take a lot of damage? He looked relatively clean for going 3 rounds with Sonnen on top. I feel like he actually inflicted more damage on Sonnen’s face from on bottom than vice versa.
I mean I think Chael could decision Mayhem in the same way Shields did, but, it wouldn’t be domination. And he could get subbed.
Haven't seen the fight for a while,
but I definitely remember Chael beating Nate up pretty good.
Fightmetric says Sonnen landed over 200 strikes on Nate, 30+ which are considered “power strikes”. I don’t think cuts (and really- aesthetic damage in general) = damage. Quantity & quality of strikes is the main criteria of damage.
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 5, 2011 5:48 AM EDT up reply actions
can i get in on this sig bet? Mayhem by Sub
Sonnen has never thrown more than 10 power shots in all his UFC FIGHTS COMBINED.
I dont know who is counting these shots…… but I do know I could make them cry easily. Lol.Their idea of hard shots doesn’t compare to mine.
Power puts people on queer street. Power breaks blood vessels, skin,bone or visually effects someone. I have never really seen a sonnen ground strike do any of that.
I am also a bit of sadist and a bit of a masochist…… so maybe I am not the best judge. Either way though, sonnen is gonna tap if he fights Mayhem. Hell ,he might not survived the first one if mayhem had another round.
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 5, 2011 9:43 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
There's the problem.
See, I don’t think that a strike has to rock the opponent in order to qualify as a power strike. That’s why we use terms like rocked/ knockdown/ etc.
There have been times where i’ve watched Sonnen striking from the top and just cringed. The kind of concussive force that he generates by posting your head into the mat, posturing up, and raining down right hands is quite impressive IMO. His striking from top position is definitely elite.
I don’t know what your training background is, but from my experience, even when we’re doing live MMA sparring, and throwing shots at like 50%, getting pelted with shots is miserable. It fucking hurts. I would tap after like 30 seconds of Chael’s GnP.
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 5, 2011 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
"The kind of concussive force that he generates "
The kind that doesn’t cause concussions? Its all arm punches.
We have had this talk before.
We can agree to disasgree.
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 5, 2011 10:31 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
We have indeed.
And I guarantee you Sonnen’s strikes induce concussions.
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 5, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Funny thing about the 9 years ago Sonnen/Mayhem is that Sonnen was so unable to do anything the times he was in (then blue belt) Miller’s guard that the fight was stood up 5 times over two 5-minute rounds. Miller also ended up in side control and even briefly mounted Sonnen.
Of course, it was 2-3 fights into each of their careers and is utterly meaningless today, but…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Apr 5, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Interesting.
I’d never watched the fight, just assumed it was a regular Sonnen UD win.
Rec’d
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 7, 2011 4:06 AM EDT up reply actions
I think there was a moment where even Joe Rogan comments that Chael’s shots in that fight were ‘pretty ineffectual’ or somethin to that extent. Dunno about fight metric…just goin by what I saw which was some G& limited P by Sonnen whose macerated face was drippin blood all over.
With all due respect to Joe Rogan,
I don’t really give to much credence to that opinion. You can see the velocity & impact Sonnen’s strikes have, he obviously can hit hard. Anderson has a granite jaw, and Chael wobbled the shit out of him with a cross.
The problem is that it’s extremely hard to stop someone with strikes from guard, unless you’re a monster like Karlos Vemola or Mark Munoz. Chael definitely doesn’t hit as hard as those guys.
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 7, 2011 4:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Mayhem’s a good fighter, but unless he could get a hail mary submission, I see him losing just like he has his entire career.
Huh? In the last 8 years he is 17-4 (1 NC) with his only losses to GSP, Jacare, Jake Shields and Trigg (completely due to soccer kicks).
That is it, and GSP, Jacare and Shields would be favored, usually heavily favored to beat anyone in their weight classes, Anderson Silva (and each other) excepted.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Apr 5, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Just saying,
there’s a common trend in Mayhem’s career, and that trend is that the vast majority of his losses were via top control centric decisions. Mayhem’s takedown defense isn’t bulletproof, and he’s not an unstoppable submission wizard from his back.
He’s good, and I am a fan, but I’m just pointing out the obvious.
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 7, 2011 4:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Definitely saved by the bell. I would like to see a rule implemented where fighters had to work their way out of fight ending sequences like submissions or flurries of strikes.
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 5, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree in a way, but it would give too much unchecked discretion to the refs.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Apr 5, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't really think so,
you could basically work it the same way they do when a fighter’s mouthpiece falls out. When there’s an obvious lull in action, they give the fighter his mouthpiece back.
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 7, 2011 4:12 AM EDT up reply actions
i absolutely agree!!
If you are locked in a sub the rd. Should be extended.
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 5, 2011 11:29 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
hmmmmm.......?
Better but , I just say extend it until the hold is broken or the sub is successful.
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 5, 2011 12:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't like that at all.
It ignores everything that happened in the round. To me, submissions are only valuable if they make the opponent tap, or in some rare cases- are actively applied and do damage (like Rafael Dos Anjos’ calf slicer on Tyson Griffin that made him limp).
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 7, 2011 4:15 AM EDT up reply actions
“Barely survived” is not much of an exaggeration, but who is to say that Shields didn’t relax his defense knowing the round was seconds from ending and he was in no danger of being finished. Personally, I rather doubt it, but it is very possible.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Apr 5, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s not an exaggeration at all. That was locked in and the round ended.
And then God created Saturn ... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
SaberCats Examiner | SB Nation Bay Area | Niners Nation | Twitter
Maia would certainly be competitive, but everything he does, Jacare does a little better. Palhares probably would be too, but I think both lose.
As for Mayhem, Sonnen and Kennedy (avenged in 2007) losses were 8+ years ago, and even the GSP loss was 6 years ago (and its GSP).
I am not trying to claim he is a champion-in-waiting or anything, but when you consider its GSP, Shields and Jacare – 3 guys who would likely control and beat every single person in their weight class in any org (Anderson possibly excepted), I really fail to see how that is a negative.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Apr 5, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
I actually tend to think Maia is about as good technically as Jacare, just nowhere near as athletic.
I agree
They are very close technically, but I think Jacare is much stronger and a significantly better athlete.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Apr 5, 2011 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
better stand up and takedowns because of it.
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 5, 2011 12:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That's fair.
Against Maia, I think Jacare would score takedowns and work from the top. He also has a quicker first step and would probably land the better shots standing.
Palhares would be a tough matchup for Souza, I think he would probably want to focus his efforts on the striking battle there. Stump is hard to take down.
And again- I’m not hating on Mayhem here, just saying that historically he has lost to takedown/ top control specialists.
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 7, 2011 4:19 AM EDT up reply actions
They fought already before right?
They told me to put a signature here.......so I did.
by ANDERSONS GOT THE JUICE on Apr 5, 2011 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, 9 years ago
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Apr 5, 2011 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Sure Sonnen would own Mayhem, but I was referring only to the pre-fight. Because yah, it would be pretty awesome to behold.
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe."
- Frank Zappa
by grizzlyatoms on Apr 5, 2011 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions
"War of words"
comes to mind.
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 5, 2011 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions
nah
sonnen would probably just make fun of mayhem’s speech impediment.
two of the best shit-talkers in MMA.
that match would sell VERY easily. and against two guys that love to fight and bring it every time. i’ll fly to Japan to see that happen.
by Victor Rodriguez on Apr 5, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I like Mayhem
And he might be able to beat Bisping, but I think Chael would beat him down for 3 rounds. Still I like to see him in UFC right about meow rather than fighting whatever’s left in the MW at SF.
The key is to hit the guy in the jaw really hard before the other guy does it.
by FreeLightningLee on Apr 5, 2011 12:27 AM EDT reply actions
Chael on the juice or off of it?
On the juice I say CHAEL SMASH! Off the juice I think Mayhem subs him late in the fight
It’s people pretending that the majority of their favorite fighters aren’t using performance enhancers.
by Jonathan Snowden on Apr 5, 2011 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions
While I wouldn't be surprised to learn that any athlete was using PEDs
I don’t think that we can fairly presume that the “majority” of fighters are being helped along by them.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
www.badlefthook.com
by Drunken cutman on Apr 5, 2011 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
No, but I think it is safe to the say that a significant majority of high level combat athletes have used some form of PED in their career, even if not currently. High level contact sport guys as well.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Apr 5, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Mayhen has the skills...
to be a legit Top 10 185er. He gave Shields all he could handle in their bout and I think he beats a lot of the talent in the UFC now.
Bisping yes, Sonnen no, he would go through mayhem like a buzzsaw.
Bring the Cup home to Detroit in 2011!!!
Mayhem would sub him.
"Every time I talk on the phone with someone who doesn’t know me, they call me "ma’am"." - Scott C. Broussard
by Earl Montclair on Apr 5, 2011 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Bet with your head, not with your heart – don’t let your hatred of Sonnen delude you as to the outcome of a potential rematch with Mayhem.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 5, 2011 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I enjoy Chael but
If Chael doesn’t have the Lance Armstrong Mega Balls Bacne Supplements Of Doom, or even if he does………Mayhem via Triangle Armbar.
"Every time I talk on the phone with someone who doesn’t know me, they call me "ma’am"." - Scott C. Broussard
by Earl Montclair on Apr 5, 2011 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions
It took Silva over 22 minutes to finally be able to sub Sonnen… you think Mayhem could do in 15 minutes what Silva couldn’t? Not saying it’s impossible, but I do have my doubts.
Mayhem>Silva
Joke. But it’s not like Sonnen was defending submission attempts after submission attempts that day, Silva wasn’t so aggressive (except with strikes) that one could say “dude, he survived in Silva’s guard for 5 rounds, he got the jits” no. It just means he doesn’t suck as much as people say. And I don’t want to bring that up, but again, Silva was hurt, go figure how much he was diminished that day.
Boys becoming men...Men becoming wolves
I would consider Mayhem’s grappling significantly beyond anything Anderson has ever shown.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Apr 5, 2011 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Why not?
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
www.badlefthook.com
by Drunken cutman on Apr 5, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, Anderson’s finished the very hard to finish Henderson. Who has Miller finished by sub that was impressive?
Henderson was already finished and he essentially gave up and rolled over to give Anderson his back without resistance.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Apr 5, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
He has 14 wins via sub, including the only legit sub on Saku. If you really can’t tell he has serious grappling skills from watching him fight, I don’t know what else to tell you.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Apr 5, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure, never said he doesn’t have serious grappling skills. But you’re saying they’re better than Anderson, and that’s what I’m arguing. Anderson has big wins by submissions (over Hendo and Lutter are impressive, his over Sonnen came out of nowhere and wasn’t unexpected considering Sonnen’s problems, but still, impressive sub considering the context of that fight), while Miller’s best win by submission is over a 59 year old Sakuraba. Hardly impressive.
I just said better than anything Anderson has shown in MMA. Hendo was a submission for the record, but Dan completely gave up and rolled over rather than getting TKO’d – he didn’t even try to defend the choke before it was sunk in.
Lutter had missed weight, was gassed and getting pounded by a mix of regular and 12-6 elbows to the top of the head before tapping.
Anderson may very well have world-class jits, but he has never shown anything like that in MMA – most of his guard work seems to consist of tying guys up and hoping to be stood up.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Apr 6, 2011 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Chael Sonnen has never gone through anybody like a buzzsaw. I don’t see him starting with Mayhem.
I suppose I could see Sonnen going through Mayhem like a handsaw. A dull one. But if Mayhem could catch an armbar for even a millisecond, Sonnen would quick-tap like he always does.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
by FRANKIE on Apr 5, 2011 1:48 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You didn't think
he dominated Okami or Miller? Or Brian Baker in the WEC?
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 5, 2011 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions
He was pretty damn dominant against Okami and Dan Miller.
"Every time I talk on the phone with someone who doesn’t know me, they call me "ma’am"." - Scott C. Broussard
by Earl Montclair on Apr 5, 2011 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions
That Okami fight scared me. I didn’t think anyone could outwrestle Yushin like that.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 5, 2011 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions
I was shocked too. He just manhandled him.
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 5, 2011 2:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Dominated? Sure. Went through like a buzzsaw? No. Although, looking back, I was wrong. I should have said he hasn’t gone through anybody like a buzzsaw since bodogfight.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
by FRANKIE on Apr 5, 2011 1:59 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't
particularly think that a finish is necessary to “go through someone like a buzzsaw,” but that’s a very subjective issue I guess.
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 5, 2011 2:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Coz it takes 15/25mins to go through a man with a buzzsaw?
How else can you take that phrase but as a euphamism for “finished the opponent quickly”? Otherwise you need to start buying your buzzsaws from somewhere else mate
"Anyone who enjoys watching sport on television is an imbecile; a dangle-mouthed, cud-chewing, salivating ding-dong with a brain full of dim piss, blobbing out in front of a box watching a grunting thicko knock a ball round a field while their own sad carcass gently coagulates into a wobbling mass of beer and fat and thick white heart-attack gravy" - Charlie Brooker
by Mattyjudo on Apr 5, 2011 6:28 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I just see it as
a term describing someone who easily, and brutally defeats the opponent. To each their own. It’s just a semantics debate at this point.
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 5, 2011 7:17 AM EDT up reply actions
"i am gonng cut this 2x4 with this Sonnen endorsed buzz saw"
“Yeah…. my first cut should be done in about 15 mins. As long as it doesn’t go to sleep or start screeming in pain”
“Some how my Sonnen endorsed buzz saw always come out looking worse than the wood it cuts……weird”
“Damn it!!! That plywood had decent subs and choked my buzz saw” :-p lol
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 5, 2011 9:56 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
Touché
and rec’d.
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 5, 2011 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Mayhems lack of Takedown defense means he would get utterly controlled by Sonnen
Twitter @MaZZM
http://mazznettt.blogspot.com/
Mayhem v Marquardt
is a fight I would love to see. I would also love to see him against the Wandy/Leben winner
…or the Wandy/Leben loser for that matter.
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe."
- Frank Zappa
by grizzlyatoms on Apr 5, 2011 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I would love to see Miller vs. Belcher, that is if Belcher hasn’t retired from that eye injury.
Bring the Cup home to Detroit in 2011!!!
I read the Belcher article in the new UFC mag.
He’s coming back, just taking it slow so he doesn’t hurt his eye again.
"Rather than love, than money, than faith, than fame, than fairness... give me truth."
Chris McCandless A.K.A. Alexander Supertramp
1968-1992
I'm loving the picture.
Gus and Mauro looks so unbelievably pissed off.
"Rather than love, than money, than faith, than fame, than fairness... give me truth."
Chris McCandless A.K.A. Alexander Supertramp
1968-1992
It takes
anderson 5 rounds to sub chael
but somehow we think miller subs him in 3? O_O
Babalu subbed him in under 2 rounds sooooooo Renato Sobral BJJ > Anderson Silva BJJ ?
"Every time I talk on the phone with someone who doesn’t know me, they call me "ma’am"." - Scott C. Broussard
by Earl Montclair on Apr 5, 2011 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions
maybe?
I mean on straight BJJ alone maybe right?
They told me to put a signature here.......so I did.
by ANDERSONS GOT THE JUICE on Apr 5, 2011 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe.
"Every time I talk on the phone with someone who doesn’t know me, they call me "ma’am"." - Scott C. Broussard
by Earl Montclair on Apr 5, 2011 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Don't talk down on the Nog Brother's Bjj
Anderson will make you smell his nuts while being choked out.
Anderson Silva submitted Lutter who is the Michael Jordan of BJJ
"Every time I talk on the phone with someone who doesn’t know me, they call me "ma’am"." - Scott C. Broussard
by Earl Montclair on Apr 5, 2011 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't know how anybody can miss weight for a fucking title fight
He is going to regret that for the rest of his life.
Wow!
An Adam Morrison reference, well done man. Big Gonzaga fan here haha
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 5, 2011 2:31 AM EDT up reply actions
remember when frank trigg destroyed mayhem?
that was one of the most savage beatings i have ever seen
because of that occurrence I doubt he would stand a chance against Chael
and bisping well I think he actually can take him
were they legal?
Not being a dick just wondering?
They told me to put a signature here.......so I did.
by ANDERSONS GOT THE JUICE on Apr 5, 2011 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Yep
Just rewatched that fight – you can say that the head kicks led to Trigg piecing Mayhem up in the second, but Trigg definitely pieced Mayhem up in the second.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 5, 2011 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Was it because of the soccer kicks though?
I’m pretty sure Mayhem would’ve won that fight if soccer kicks weren’t allowed.
Watch the fight.
Really competitive before the kicks. It was a while ago – I don’t doubt that Mayhem has gotten better.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 5, 2011 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Right, Mayhem was still a brown belt against Shields and Jacare, he just recently got his black belt.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Apr 5, 2011 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Completely because of them.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Apr 5, 2011 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm guessing they were
since that’s how he got the tko. According to wiki a tleast.
Mayhem had taken Trigg down 3 times before slipping in R1, starting a sequence where Trigg soccer kicked the shit out of him. He never fully recovered and got more soccer kicks to the head in R2 before it was stopped. His one and only TKO loss.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Apr 5, 2011 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions
British
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Apr 5, 2011 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Fun throwaway movie!
Terrance Stamp never gets old.
KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!
by hardlyworking on Apr 5, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Nate’s wrestling is not particularly good.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Apr 5, 2011 2:37 AM EDT up reply actions
There's not many guys that Mayhem can't hang with
Too bad Jacare is one of them.
"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."
True, but Jacare is a beast – I would take him at even money against any MW in the world, possibly excluding Anderson, although I know they would never fight.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Apr 5, 2011 2:40 AM EDT up reply actions
You mean heavyweight
I'm Don Frye and you're not - Don Frye
by MrTechnique420 on Apr 5, 2011 2:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Tough call on who I would rather see jack Sonnen up – Jacare or Jones…probably have to go with Jones just to see the look on Sonnen’s face when he is being dominantly out-wrestling and punished throughout.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Apr 5, 2011 2:49 AM EDT up reply actions
He would question his place in life
Someone even more overconfident and a way better wrestler?
He’d have a breakdown.
"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."
Nah...
Deep down Sonnen knows he’s one of life’s runners-up. He basically said as much after losing to Anderson. He’s a textbook example of a deeply insecure man
"Anyone who enjoys watching sport on television is an imbecile; a dangle-mouthed, cud-chewing, salivating ding-dong with a brain full of dim piss, blobbing out in front of a box watching a grunting thicko knock a ball round a field while their own sad carcass gently coagulates into a wobbling mass of beer and fat and thick white heart-attack gravy" - Charlie Brooker
Its funny you mention that
Before the Anderson fight I explained (and was widely ridiculed for doing so) how I thought Sonnen would largely dominate Anderson, removing his aura of invulnerability and show how a better MMA wrestler could beat Anderson, but I said then that what I called Sonnen’s self-loathing combined with Anderson’s heart of a champion would likely lead to him getting choked out sometime late in the fight.
Self-loathing is one of those rare perceptions of self that is almost universally correct – Sonnen knows in his heart that he is unworthy of winning.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Apr 5, 2011 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
lindland's corner advice before the 5th round was most telling
something like: “don’t you give up this fight!”
they know he’s got that mental flaw. it’s funny how jiu-jitsu— a complex, mentally demanding, leverage over strength discipline— is such a perfect manifestation of his psychological flaws.
by Trust Doesn't Rust on Apr 5, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
At this point, it has happened so many times (and nearly happened others) that I don’t see any way he gets past it. I think Jacare, Maia, Palhares, Shields or Mayhem all finish him the majority of the time.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Apr 5, 2011 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
all this being said, i’m still shocked and highly impressed that he was able to outstrike anderson in the exchanges he did during their fight. bas rutten speculated that chael knocked anderson out on his feet with a blow in the first round and that he essentially spent the rest of the fight recovering from it.
by Trust Doesn't Rust on Apr 5, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I was impressed too, and Anderson was clearly caught off guard and somewhat rocked, although I doubt it took him that long to recover.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Apr 5, 2011 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it's safe to say Jones was not OVERconfident
He was very much accurately confident—-even if he probably shouldn’t have been publicly saying some of those things.
Not afraid to nitpick
i know one man he definitely can't beat...
by vicesquad26 on Apr 5, 2011 2:34 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Paul Harris has great leg locks, but I have seen little else from him, and those are very high risk, especially in MMA. It would be a good match, but I would take Mayhem – if Jacare can’t submit him, I seriously doubt Paul can.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Apr 5, 2011 2:37 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
to you sir i say
by vicesquad26 on Apr 5, 2011 2:40 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
There you go, although with more room to operate I don’t think it happens in a real match…then again, he was lighting quick there. Hate that the bullshit with Marquardt somewhat derailed him for now, that guy is a handful for anybody.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Apr 5, 2011 2:48 AM EDT up reply actions
i am not saying Jacksons greases.....
But lots of other fighters think they do.
Paul harris has grabbed a human leg for that lock 10,000+ times. He knows what it is supposed to feel like.
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 5, 2011 10:10 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I would imagine that they (and most fighters) use various supplements, lotions, oils, etc that are absorbed in their skin a sweated out for that very reason.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Apr 5, 2011 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
That's exactly what they do
Even Marquardt said it after the Palhares fight. I forgot exactly what he said but it was something like eating greasy food so that it comes out of his pores or something.
Didn’t they check the leg to see if there was anything fishy?
Boys becoming men...Men becoming wolves
I'm sure they did.
Apparently though, there are ways to like… embed oily/ greasy agents into your body, by soaking in them well in advance. It gets into your pores, even if there isn’t a bunch of it obviously on their skin at the surface.
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 5, 2011 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
But they checked that right after the accusation, before even announcing the winner, you would think that if it’s effective, it would feel greasy right? Or they didn’t do a proper job at checking that leg.
Boys becoming men...Men becoming wolves
water based lube.
Wouldn’t leave greasy residue. Ky or atstroglide type stuff.
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 5, 2011 10:36 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
To be honest,
I don’t really think Marquardt specifically greased. I’ve just heard it can be finagled.
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 5, 2011 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Pure conjecture on my part,
I remember hearing it somewhere.
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 5, 2011 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
lol @ the super technical paper towel test that was conducted.
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 5, 2011 11:33 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Marquardt specifically stated
that knowing how good Paul is at leg/ankle manipulation he purposely got all hot/sweaty in the locker room before the fight.
by hardlyworking on Apr 5, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Put him in the Octagon!
I’d love to see Mayhem back in there and actually get a serious chance in the UFC middleweight division. I by no means think he’ll get near title contention. But he’s a great personality, has his MTV show, and is a good fighter. I would think the UFC would like to have a guy who maybe could draw some more eyes to their shows, especially ones that maybe don’t have a great headliner.
It's funny that guys are now hyping up their hyping up skills.
"The only freakshow's the one in my pants"
-James Toney
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