Sport Science: Georges St. Pierre's Punching Power - 2859 Lbs of Force
by Nick Thomas on Apr 29, 2011 9:44 AM EDT
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UFC Welterweight Champion Georges St. Pierre makes the trek to the Sport Science lab to see if he has what it takes to beat Jake Shields in the Octagon. St. Pierre showed off his stamina and punches to ESPN Sport Science's John Brenkus where he tested St. Pierre's power and speed.
- Stamina: When most fighters hit their ceiling (maximum), GSP is at 85% of his maxTo compare: Cain Velasquez's punch is 2230 lbs of force, Rampage Jackson's punch is 1800 lbs of force and Shogun Rua's kick is 2749 lbs of force.
- Georges St. Pierre's punch registers at 2859 lbs of force
- Georges St. Pierre's kick registers at 3477 lbs of force
- Georges St. Pierre's punch/kick combo registers at 6000+ lbs of force in under 1 second
- Speed: Georges St. Pierre's takedown generates 2400 watts of power in 1.17 second (on par with Rashad Evans)
- Georges St. Pierre's superman punch moves at 15 feet/second (twice as fast as his normal punch)
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And when was the last time GSP KO’d somebody with a standing punch?
by MMABookworm on Apr 29, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Several knockdowns over Hieron & Fitch, wobbled Hughes with a superman punch, beat BJ into a living death… GSP has power. It’s just a matter of preference- Georges tends to go more for speed and volume over power.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 29, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Forgot about that.
What round did that happen in?
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 29, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep. Last I heard Kos can’t begin training til summer. That fight was mid-December for Christ’s sake.
Hardcore MMA fan since UFC 99
by ChiCubs23 on Apr 29, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And he has nerve damage, so he can't feel anything on the right side of his face.
Or in his mouth on the right side. At this point, I don’t see how that’s going to get better.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
not a gsp fan
but goddman
Fine! I'll go build my own lunar lander, with blackjack and hookers. In fact, forget the lunar lander and the blackjack.
PRIDE fan boy
What a freak of an athlete.
We’re lucky to have seen him blossom like this.
@scb0212
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 29, 2011 9:15 AM EDT reply actions
This confirms my suspicions,
I’ve always thought that GSP had adequate power. It’s obvious that he does, the knockdowns and stoppages he has are a testament to that. It’s just a matter of when he throws for power. I also think that working with Freddie has REALLY taught him how to sit down and put a ton of power into his punches.
It’s just a matter of comitting to those strikes when the opportunity comes. Once he does, the knockouts will come again, no prob.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 29, 2011 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree when we see it happen but for now . . .
Oh yeah, let me see an average wrestler run a marathon or better yet one of those 30-50 miles events Socrates.
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Apr 29, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Don't be mad homie,
the runner’s only running that marathon to get away from the wrestler’s death clutch
=D
Seriously though… wrestlers > runners.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 29, 2011 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Let's see
even the best runner ever try to lock up with a run of the mill wrestler… the runner would gas after the first few minutes. Different kind of endurance.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 29, 2011 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
When was the last time you saw Nick Diaz gas?!?
He’s a runner! (triathalons homie)
But we do know that he’s not stopping top wrestler’s in the UFC WW division.
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Apr 29, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
No he most certainly isn't,
but by god, that man can punch for days. I think Diaz is different because he doesn’t even try to resist takedowns, and he seldom tries them himself. He doesn’t have the build or skills to be a successful wrestler, that’s for sure.
Lanky dude built for triathlons and throwing 200+ punches a round. Nick knows this though, and that’s why he puts up the volume he does, and why he plays the crazy inverted guard game. Because he can keep up that kind of hyperactive guard and wear out the opponent.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 29, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
He doesn’t have the build or skills to be a successful wrestler, that’s for sure.
Any build can be a good wrestler, its how you use it. One of the best kids in the state went to my high school. He was 6’2" 147lbs of wiry hell.
Also, Diaz can greatly improved his strength and musculature but he obviously isn’t very concerned with it. You give me 12 weeks to put muscle on him and I guarantee you’ll see a huge difference.
"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."
I'm sure he has done strength training,
and he’s not a complete weakling, but I guarantee you that he’s composed much more heavily of slow twitch muscle fibers than fast twitch.
And while lankier guys can be good wrestlers, I think the cage and strikes are a deterrent to a more finessed, taller wrestling game, and I say this because many taller wrestlers prefer to work out of the clinch, using trips and whatnot; but if you’re facing a guy who’s good at defending takedowns with his back on the cage, it can be very hard to finish from the clinch.
Dominick Cruz wrestles very well for a taller guy (relative to his weight class)- knee taps, snatch singles, duck unders are all great for tall guys.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 30, 2011 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m sure he has done strength training, and he’s not a complete weakling, but I guarantee you that he’s composed much more heavily of slow twitch muscle fibers than fast twitch.
Of course, he’s doing some strength training. My point is he’s clearly not focused on gaining muscle mass. If he was, he would get bigger like everyone else. Any person will develop a muscular physique with the right training and diet.
We have no way of knowing Diaz’s actual composition, but IMO he seems to have enough fast twitch. Having slow or fast twitch fibers isn’t the end all and be all either. You can improve recruitment and contraction in either and become much more explosives. Having more slow twitch also doesn’t stop him from getting bigger.
"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."
Remember, in Greek history, the hoplites (who were trained in wrestling) defeated the Persians at Marathon...
…the runner just got to tell Athens about it before dying…
@scb0212
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 29, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Running are only good at one thing-
and that’s running. Literally, the physical act of fleeing (or sometimes, pursuit, but i’ll ignore that to bolster my argument).
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 29, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair...
…in a street fight, “fleeing” is my martial art of choice.
@scb0212
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 29, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Oh, you bet your ass.
My credo is to take as little damage as possible. I’m not very easy to provoke with words, and I haven’t been in a real fight in ages. Training is such a great outlet for natural aggression that it doesn’t seem appealing at all to fight random douchebags.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 29, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I've never been jumped, thankfully, and have earned a reputation for being crazy by people who know me.
I’m 5’3, 110 lbs, and a complete nerd, so I’ve had my fair share of bullies & co. The closest I ever was to fighting any of them was when one guy (a star basketball player for my school) shoved me during science class. I grabbed a pair of dissecting scissors and drove them into his arm. The teacher backed me, so I got off clean. They still teased me but never dared touch me again.
@scb0212
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 29, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Cool story bro.
no, I really mean it.
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Apr 29, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Atta boy!
Seriously though, if a giant asshole jock is gonna fuck with a little dude, he’s got it coming to him. And that’s exactly why you don’t fuck with people for no reason- you might get shanked (or worse).
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 30, 2011 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh yeah, let me see an average wrestler run a marathon or better yet one of those 30-50 miles events Socrates.
Kind of missing the point here.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
www.badlefthook.com
by Drunken cutman on Apr 29, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
not really . . . I get it. I’m just defending my tribe. If a wrestler can catch, well then that’s another story in the mean time . . . catch me if you can.
Fight or Flight – I’ll go with my first instinct. I don’t want to get stab, shot, or hit over the head with a bottle.
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Apr 29, 2011 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, you definitely have the edge
in a zombie apocalypse! Rule #1 is cardio, amirite?
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 30, 2011 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not buying it that GSP hits harder than Rampge....
by CVD on Apr 29, 2011 9:16 AM EDT reply actions 11 recs
agreed my friend
Fine! I'll go build my own lunar lander, with blackjack and hookers. In fact, forget the lunar lander and the blackjack.
PRIDE fan boy
Cain either tbh. Theres no way GSP hits harder than either of those guys, yet never knocks dudes out.
Yeah
Sport Science is totally rigged.
:/
"Every time I talk on the phone with someone who doesn’t know me, they call me "ma’am"." - Scott C. Broussard
by Earl Montclair on Apr 29, 2011 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
If you know anything about Combat Sports
Not everyone has KO power. Pretty sure that Gomi’s punching power is far less than GSP’s but he shuts dude lights off with terribly thrown punches.
Meet me on Monsta Island. Where the girls look good and the MC's be Wildin'.
Also, follow me on Twitter @DeoWade
Yeah, some people are acting like this is a simple single variable situation. The truth is we’re looking at an incredibly complex conflation of variables. Things like speed over the course of the strike, the trajectory and angle of impact, point of contact, momentum and follow through, not to mention factoring in which muscles are being used and how much.
I don’t necessarily agree with the concept of KO power as an intrinsic thing, but I think it should be plainly obvious that power is only a small factor in the overall “KO formula”. Personally I’m of the opinion that accuracy and angle of strike are probably the most important factors – my go to example would probably be Mac Danzig vs. Joe Stevenson.
by Pyrgz Krum on Apr 29, 2011 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Absolutely.
Raw power is great, but precision is the real killer.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 29, 2011 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I wonder what Anderson Silva's "raw power" skill is.
@scb0212
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 29, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
He's got power for sure,
And even though he looks no buffer at 205, he sure does seem to know how to put that extra weight behind his punches. At 185, Anderson’s power is very good. He can stun/ drop/ knock you cold with just about all 8 points. At 170 his punching power didn’t seem too great, but that could also be a function of his inexperience at the time, and probably a tough weight cut.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 29, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
because Gomi actually throws his power.
Gomi’s punches come from china. He throws with bad intentions. Gsp doesn’t….. ever. So if these scores are accurate it means one of two things.
1. Gsp has always had power and just lacks the balls to commit to throwing it when someone is in there trying to hit him back.
2. Gsp just had a break through with his striking.
Or its a little of both.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 29, 2011 10:34 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Definitely a lack of commitment.
Not intended as a sleight towards GSP, it’s just true. He throws crisp, quick strikes as opposed to heavy power shots. When he does throw hard, it’s generally against a far inferior striker who poses virtually zero threat to him.
It’s smart, but doesn’t consistently produce knockouts. But he’s gradually learning. It he sits down and thumps Jake with a right hand like that, Shields is wiping out again.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 29, 2011 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
if gsp does what the H-bomb couldnt.
I will be fucking amazed. But for now I feel safe with my jake by rnc prediction.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 29, 2011 11:32 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm thinking Shields will be visiting the same facial surgeon as Kos after tonight...
@scb0212
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 29, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
jake isnt immune to KO's, nobody is!
and the h-bomb did put his lights out in the 1st, but the impact of him hitting the floor woke him up. and like prygz said, there’s more at work here, than just raw power.
daley dropped diaz, when everybody said nick’s chin is inhuman. im pretty sure if hendo had landed on him like he tagged bisping, it would have sent sheilds into another dimension.
when the going gets tough on jake, he shoots for a single.
When the going gets tough for gsp,he gives the good ol’….. tap,tap,tap-a-roo to strikes.
That’s the kind of stuff you can’t teach,or learn. Its just how you’re built.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 29, 2011 12:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
if jake gets hit behind the ear like gsp did, he wont be shooting for anything, all it takes is a grazing punch, see: belfort/franklin, lesnar/couture. there’s no coming back from that once you lose your balance.
well
Belfort vs. franklin- the other three punches to the back of the head from a former HW champ sure did help that grazing blow.
Lesnar vs. Randy- Brock is 7/8ths albino mountain gorilla 1/8th Viking. He hits hard as hell.
Neither of those dudes tapped.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 29, 2011 12:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
would u tap to masturbation punches or matt serra with knee on belly throwing full blown punches to your face? getting punched square in the face sucks
and rich franklin turning his head away and waiting for the ref to step in = tapping!!
Whoa!
Rich was knocked senseless,and then punched in the back of the head repeatedly. he was not waiting for the ref. He wasn’t concious when that fight was stopped.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 29, 2011 1:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
also tapping to strikes holds no weight in my book. most mma fans go crazy when a ref fails to stop a fight in time, or if the athletic commission fails in some way to protect a fighter’s health. at the end of the its about fighter safety.
if the fighter senses his game is over before the refs realizes that, i think he has every right to tap, and fans are in no position to call him out on that. i dont see any difference between tapping to strikes than tapping to subs. there’s nothing macho about taking unnecessary punishment when you know its over.
for some its not over until their eyes are shut and their world goes white/black.
Tapping to a sub is a touch different. With an armbar(generally) you can feel the bursa sack break, then the tendons, then the bones. if you tap at the bursa that’s just smart. The others were sure to follow. An choke you can feel it. You fight until its too late, then you tap.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 29, 2011 1:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
regardless of their mechanics, both subs and KO’s test your pain thresholds, some people dont lose consciousness but are incapacitated and are not in shape to fight back, so why wouldnt they tap if the ref is being ignorant and totally failing at his job ?
GSP/Kos
Kos & his corner would have been smart to quit the fight. Broken facial bones prevent training, so he’s out many paydays, and the nerve damage is never going away.
@scb0212
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 29, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
i agree, but only because he lost.
If he would have won……Well it would be an inspirational story of perseverence.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 29, 2011 1:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i dont view them the same at all.
One is eminent danger. one is proposed danger.
It doesn’t take away from how awesome of a fighter gsp is because he tapped to strikes. People are allowed to be a little lacking in one area or another. Gsp doesn’t have to be perfect to be great.
It does add to Jakes arsenal that if you wanna beat him you have to shut his lights off and get the ref to stop it.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 29, 2011 1:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
which one is which ?
is subs eminent or punches to the head eminent ?
when your livelihood and future depends on, how many punches you can absorb in your career span, most people i know would take matters in their own hands to minimize damage and secure longevity of their body and mind.
i dont think these fighters have the liberty to quantify the dangers, and go “lets see how many more punches i can take” as opposed to “lets see how much longer i can let my arm extended in the opposite direction” knowing well one severe blow or sub attempt can end their career and threaten their livelihood.
they are both equally threatening situations imo.
by legion4 on Apr 29, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I completely agree
GSP said that he knew he was beat, that he was just taking damage and there was no point to continue to take damage. He tapped out to preserve his health and ensure that he could make a come back, which he did. To me, that just shows a sense of perspective and long term awareness; he’s looking at his career as a whole.
Meanwhile, Koscheck still has a broken face.
That said...
…I REALLY wish he would have tried to defend Matt Hughes’ armbar for just a second longer.
tapping to strikes?
Damn right it’s fine with me. Live to fight another day. Who wants a face broken so bad you can’t fight anymore?
certified warlord
yeah ur right GSP has no heart, he just goes through hell everyday of his life to be the best when 99.9999% of other people would likely fail
im sorry but i say this with respect, u sir are retarded and come off as a keyboard warrior
by zuffazombie on Apr 29, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
i think you are confusing disapline with heart.
Disapline is trainging hard all the time.
Heart is that extra something that drives you when the shit has hit the fan. Its what drives you when your body wants to stop. When I think of heart I think of Nick Diaz, Big Nog, or Anderson Silva . Guys that dig deep and win when they should have lost.
I am trolling a bit. I will stop now. I know how you gsp fans get.
I love the “with all due respect” line. It gives the speaker free reign to say what ever they
want. This is not directed at you btw “with all due respect, your mother’s a whore”. I mean how else could you say that while giving the person you are talking to all the respect they deserve? It can’t be done. Its a magic phrase.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 29, 2011 1:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
as shocking as it may sound, im no gsp fan, condit is my fave WW. that said, would you say that when gsp tore his abductor muscle in rd 3 in alves fight and mauled him for 2 more round was a show of heart ? i certainly think so.
yes i would.
I would say that was a conscious decision That showed a lot of heart and determination.
I would say that the the tapping to serra decision was subconscious and reactionairy. I also think he would do it again if pushed hard.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 29, 2011 1:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Jake has trouble finishing the RNC with gloves on.
And I doubt Shields will have enough time on top to ever advance to the back.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 29, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I FUCKING HATE GLOVES!!!!!!!!
Gloves are the best bjj defence in mma.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 29, 2011 1:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
There was an article recently by either BE or SBN-MMA about the hockey player “throwing the gloves off for good.” I first thought it was about him pushing for bare-knuckle MMA (which I support), but it was a reference to hockey players throwing their gloves down before a fight. Poop.
@scb0212
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 29, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't like that the gloves impede the progress of submissions.
Though I understand their necessity for hand protection – you are clearly right about that.
@scb0212
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 29, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Like anything, there are positives and negatives...
I can’t stand the inevitable eye-pokes once fighters get tired.
Necessary evil.
They’re a nuisance, but what really needs to happen is that fighters need to grapple exclusively in their gloves, whether they’re in the gi or not. I also think that at least incorporating light strikes into your grappling training is pivotal as well. MMAists should never form habits in their grappling that doesn’t account for strikes.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 30, 2011 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions
IMO GSP fights very intelligentlly...
…and perhaps doesn’t commit for fear of putting himself a too much risk. Maybe risk vs. reward type thinking there.
That's exactly it.
No REAL point in risking a fight you’re already dominating.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 29, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
And also,
I think we fans put too much of a premium on finishing. I can appreciate how horrificly mangled Koscheck and Fitch were after Georges was done with them. I look at the stats of Georges outstriking Alves and (at the time considered to be a badass) Hardy, and the utter grappling domination, and can appreciate it.
Is there the drama of a really well matched, ballsy fight? No, but I can enjoy the fight as it unfolds. I won’t rewatch it later, but I’m a glass half- full kind of guy.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 29, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I completely agree with this...
…A lot of people didn’t like the GSP/Hardy fight, but to me it’s a thing of beauty to watch someone completely neutralize another persons game—especially when that person has evey intent on beating you and/or breaking you. Likewise, I wouldn’t go back and watch again but can appreciate the athleticism, skill, strategy, and overall dominance. GSP has made no secret about the type of fighter he is: He’s not going to put himself in harm’s way unnecessarily. He cares about his quality of life after he’s done with MMA and doesn’t want to take damage he doesn’t have to—which IMO makes him even more impressive. I mean the fact that he can shut someone down and play it safe takes the highest level of skill in this sport.
Wouldn't surprise me,
Rampage consistently sits down and digs in for serious power on his punches. He hits hard as hell for sure, but if you think about the whole “force = mass x acceleration” equation, I wouldn’t be surprised if Georges were markedly faster than Rampage. Georges was probably around 190 for this, Rampage was probably around 225/ 230.
Whenever GSP sits down on his punches, he gets a knockdown. See Hieron, Hughes, and Fitch (all guys with sturdy chins) for examples of this.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 29, 2011 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe KE = 0.5 * mass * acceleration squared is the better formula
GSP is using less mass than Rampage, but I assume his punches accelerate a whole lot more, and since that factor is squared it is more important in the output of joules (Killajoules? Calories? Physics was a long time ago).
BOOSH
Hell if I know.
Haha
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 29, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Rampage is likely superior in force while GSP is much superior in acceleration. Acceleration makes it easier to hit your opponent, but force makes it easier to knock them down.
Mile High Hockey: A lot more fun to watch than the Avalanche.
My bad, this was already noted by ElliotMatheny. Word.
Mile High Hockey: A lot more fun to watch than the Avalanche.
even if i agree with that statement (which i don't)
explain why GSP’s punch delivers more force than Shogun’s KICK.
everything dana white says is a complete lie
by slantedwindows on Apr 29, 2011 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
I wonder how we came to this situation. Why do WE have to justify GSP hitting harder the machine than rampage, why us? Who here works for Sport Science?
Boys becoming men...Men becoming wolves
I have a biomedical engineering degree
and this still shocks me. And it wouldn’t be the first time that SportScience has made me facepalm, they’ve messed up in the past.
i'd still rather get hit by gsp then by rampage or cain
but goddamn that’d fuckin hurt
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
kicks
he kicks that much harder than shogun? wow.
He punches harder than Shogun kicks…
".He still has a ground game that seems heavily dependent on lying still and hoping that his opponent won't notice his very kimura-able arm..."
by dancingChicken on Apr 29, 2011 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
this is why i am calling shenanigans
everything dana white says is a complete lie
by slantedwindows on Apr 29, 2011 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Hey Farva? What's the name of that restaurant you like so much?
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
George Carlin
What??
he punches harder that the Heavyweight champ?? Harder than Rua’s kick??
this cant be right, right?
"I tried to take a midnight piss, but the toilet moved so again I missed"
It’s like every person that gets their punch/kick measured hits harder than the last regardless of weight class
by Str8_right on Apr 29, 2011 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions 10 recs
Power = force x acceleration. GSP gets high scores in power because he’s faster than most other fighters. Even if he hit with less force, his greater speed makes up the difference in force (and then some).
Mile High Hockey: A lot more fun to watch than the Avalanche.
Man, I’m having a bad day. I meant to say Force = mass x acceleration. Geez. GSP has lower mass but higher acceleration, which means more force. Please forgive.
Mile High Hockey: A lot more fun to watch than the Avalanche.
Daaaaamn...
Thats crazy. I hope he finishes Shields in brutal fashion at home.. I know friends who are ordering the PPV that never watch MMA, so maybe it will do better in the states then predicted
by LosLurkos on Apr 29, 2011 9:22 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
ports science didnt really have any credibility in my eyes
thy always try to one up the guys who were previously on it
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
by milk72 on Apr 29, 2011 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
Here's my issue with these Sport Science demonstrations
They don’t mean crap because there’s really no way they simulate what occurs during fight time, like say the 4-5th round.
Here’s an example: Rampage. Yes, he can produce a whole lot of power when he’s punching but how often is he able to do it during the fight? What’s the differenc in his power from Round 1 to Round 3? We know he has the power to knock down Keith Jardine but the other key factor is accuracy. Now compare him to a fighter like Anderson Silva. He doesn’t necessarily have 1-punch KO power but his combination of fight-time accuracy proves to be a killer.
Hopefully we will see GSP kick the crap out of Shields. After all, he’s ready to kick, kick, kick for promos.
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
Rampage has big power, even late.
He hurt Forrest with big punches in the 3’rd & 4’th IIRC.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 29, 2011 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
And dropped Hendo in the 5'th,
right before the bell.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 29, 2011 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah.
To have the power to hurt Dan is rare, but to have that in the 5’th round of an intense fight is pretty badass.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 29, 2011 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
On 2nd viewing, I don’t think that was a clean knock down.
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Apr 29, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Just rewatched the end...
I think it’s debatable. The camera angle obfuscates whether the right hand Page threw actually hit Hendo or not.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 29, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Someone please post the video where GSP and that magician guy play a punch power arcade game.
by M.Sphinx on Apr 29, 2011 9:27 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
you mean Rampage and Cris Angel?
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
Sports Science has either inflated the numbers and lost all credibility
or GSP’s technique is so good that when he’s doing the demos like these he hits everything perfect and much harder.
Either way it doesn’t matter because it’s what you demonstrate in a fight that proves if you have fight ending power.
I’d love to see the day they put Carwin’s punching power to the test
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
He Murdered that sparring dummy!!!
by LosLurkos on Apr 29, 2011 9:28 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Didn't Shoguns punch klock 240 something
and his kick 2000.
by Mohammedini Hussein on Apr 29, 2011 9:30 AM EDT reply actions
I've always had my doubts about these measurements....
But saying a GSP punch is harder than a Rampage one, a Cain one AND harder than a Shogun kick seals the deal for me.
Fighter, lover and all around awesome.
by Sebastiaan Tauran on Apr 29, 2011 9:31 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
pseudo science
Got the Summer hatin on me cus I'm hotter than the sun. Got the Spring hatin on me cus I ain't never sprung. Winter hatin on me cus I'm colder than ya'll; and I will never I will never I will never Fall.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Apr 29, 2011 9:32 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Yep. I’ve always viewed this as some novelty type nonsense, or “fun fact” or something like that, but let’s not pretend like what they’re doing is actual science or means anything really.
by Horselover Fat on Apr 29, 2011 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
mmmm pseudo science. same great numbers.
With half the meaning. Now available in welter weight.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 29, 2011 10:19 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
Very good. But bag not hit back.
Chong Li is not impressed with GSP’s performance.
by AngryTwinkie on Apr 29, 2011 9:32 AM EDT reply actions 16 recs
even better - neither does Shields
by ChickenSaladin on Apr 29, 2011 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions 29 recs
Funny :)
"Very broken in his right hand is Martin Kampmann"
"This is the internet: you either have soul-stopping power or you’re a pillow-fisted pansy. There is no middle ground." - woomikee
thanks
that’s my first post ever.
i plan to be the Todd Duffee of this site.
by ChickenSaladin on Apr 29, 2011 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions
So
You’re going to get a highly rec’d comment, then get banned, then go over to MMAMania and get banned there too?
Meet me on Monsta Island. Where the girls look good and the MC's be Wildin'.
Also, follow me on Twitter @DeoWade
by Damon O. on Apr 29, 2011 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
His second comment will start out really awesome…but then he’ll start to drone on for a long time. Then in the last line he’ll say something like “oh btw…FIRST”
by MemphisMike on Apr 29, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Low blow. But funny! Shields simply try to hit back.
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Apr 29, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Also,
Using a regular heavy bag with just an accelerometer on GSP to measure PSI is hardly the way to go.
Fighter, lover and all around awesome.
by Sebastiaan Tauran on Apr 29, 2011 9:37 AM EDT reply actions
I am sure there are variables
The pressure is measured in a fixed area IE. Fist size. GSP is probably hitting faster than the other examples with a much smaller fist. I think if Cain had a Frankie Edgar fist, he punch a hole right through the bag.
by Daveyboy on Apr 29, 2011 9:44 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Next year on sport science:
so that’s 999869404606 lbs for Jose Aldo’s jab, 68594 lbs more than our previous strongest attack, Roy Nelson’s patented fart-propelled of the cage superman punch
by ChickenSaladin on Apr 29, 2011 9:47 AM EDT reply actions 12 recs
i see what you mean by that todd duffee comment.
Fart jokes huh?
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 29, 2011 10:21 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
lol.. “Roy Nelson’s patented fart-propelled of the cage superman punch” – I feel a little silly for laughing at this, but it was funny.
by Horselover Fat on Apr 29, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
That takedown drill has to be the dumbest thing I have ever seen on sports science.
Giving guys a running start at a takedown is just silly. It just doesn’t work that way in real life.
i call
gsp last 8 fights all wins but no ko just the matt serra knees to the body
rampage last 8 fights … 3 brutal knockouts Eastman, liddell, and silva.
cain last 3 fights … lesnar, nog, and rothwell all tko/ko
shogun last 7 fights … overrem, liddell, machida, and coleman tko/ko
so gsp has more power then all 3 of those fighters and he is fighting smaller fighters yet has no remarkable finishes in the past few years
but rampage, cain, shogun fight bigger fighters with less power then gsp and have some pretty damn cool tko/ko’s
none of this makes sense … with all things being near equal a smaller man doesn’t have more power then a bigger man …
by sellmorebooks on Apr 29, 2011 10:25 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Nah,
Georges just pecked away with jabs and lead low kicks. The right hands he did throw landed with authority, wish Georges would’ve thrown it more. Wouldn’t want to give Kos a chance to land his own right handed scud missile, though (especially considering his left eye was swollen shut)
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 29, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Side-note...
Others who agree that Rocky IV is the greatest movie ever made may recall the training montage where Drago punches an instrumented bag at a mind-boggling 2150 psi. Well GSP clearly makes superhuman Drago his bitch here and God help Apollo Creed if he ever got in the same ring as him – he might end up with a swollen eye!!! Stealing the immortal words of gzl500, I am off to tear out both my kneecaps, paint them like ladybugs, put them on my desk as paperweights, and then sell that desk to pay for my new jetpack BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY WE’RE LIVING IN A FUCKING FANTASY WORLD.
woah woah woah
psi is different from lbs of force
those measurements of rampage 1800 psi is equal to 4800 lbs of force
so rampage does hit harder then gsp 4800 > 2859
gsp psi would be like 714
ok i feel better now .. all is right with the world
by sellmorebooks on Apr 29, 2011 10:55 AM EDT reply actions 16 recs
There we go!
Thanks, if true.
Fighter, lover and all around awesome.
by Sebastiaan Tauran on Apr 29, 2011 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Shweet.
Thanks for the clarification bud.
That said, would that mean that Cain packs less punch than Georges?
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 29, 2011 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
ill double and triple check this just for sure
so for now disregard
by sellmorebooks on Apr 29, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks.
What is crazy is that he can superman punch someone in .48 seconds.
Jules: Normally, both your asses would be dead as fucking fried chicken, but you happen to pull this shit while I'm in a transitional period so I don't wanna kill you, I wanna help you. But I can't give you this case, it don't belong to me. Besides, I've already been through too much shit this morning over this case to hand it over to your dumb ass.
by RJshock 305 on Apr 29, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Confirmed
We have data to prove that GSP haters have no basis for their arguments other than a severe dislike for the French!
I'm from Canada, and they think I'm slow eh!
If these numbers are true then I think you can put to bed GSP being to small for MW. But shit, these numbers can’t be true. I wish there was some way to scientificly measure these stats.
Of course he doesnt hit harder then them. You know how in football safety’s can tackle harder then linebackers because they get a fucking full sprint head start. GSP is like a safety. He punchs way faster which gives him more force. Also with him working on the mechanic of his punch these numbers dont surprise me.
Jules: Normally, both your asses would be dead as fucking fried chicken, but you happen to pull this shit while I'm in a transitional period so I don't wanna kill you, I wanna help you. But I can't give you this case, it don't belong to me. Besides, I've already been through too much shit this morning over this case to hand it over to your dumb ass.
by RJshock 305 on Apr 29, 2011 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Something is wrong with these Sport Science Numbers
I don’t believe GSP punches harder than Cain or Rampage. I would like to know do they let them hit the bag several times and then average the lbs of force of each punch or do they just get to hit as hard as they can one time. Something just doesn’t seem right….
There's probably a threshold you have to meet in order to register anything.
Like being tall enough to go on the rides…
"Pounds of force" does not equal PSI
Tyson PSI was measured at 1850. The average HW boxer clocks in at around 1000. If you think Tyson in his prime can only hit with 66% of GSP’s power, I have some snake oil to sell you.
"To me, the function and duty of a quality human being is the sincere and honest development of one's potential." - Bruce Lee
by Genki Sudo's Choreographer on Apr 29, 2011 12:56 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
to clarify further...
1850 psi = ~4800 lbs of force.
"To me, the function and duty of a quality human being is the sincere and honest development of one's potential." - Bruce Lee
by Genki Sudo's Choreographer on Apr 29, 2011 1:03 PM EDT reply actions
been posted..
But nice to see it being confirmed.. So in actuality Rampage hits ~1.7 times as hard as GSP, which is more in the line of expectation.
Fighter, lover and all around awesome.
by Sebastiaan Tauran on Apr 29, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
How's that?
are you guessing the size of people’s fists?
I rewatched the Rampage episode: 1800 lbs force – same measurement as for GSP but much much lower. I’m not sure how they’re measuring the force though, if it’s an accelerometer or a strain gauge or whatever, but the bag Rampage hit wasn’t as heavy/tight packed as GSP’s one which would affect the readings of both.
Same with Valasquez – lbs of force. In that episode they mention that they have a wireless accelerometer in the bag. I’m not sure of their exact set-up but there is a bunch of ways that could give a false reading.
I never get tired of the slow-motion footage of GSP's Superman Jab on BJ Penn.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Something doesn't add up here and I'm a gsp fan
No way gsp hits harder than the big heavy hitters, must be some weird way of measuring it. Gsp would be putting guys in the morg if these numbers were correct, instead of giving then nasty bruises.
1) GSP doesn't commit to every punch like he did in the video - that wouldn't be tactically smart.
2) Sport Science used misleading numbers & units – read the thread for a breakdown of the physics.
@scb0212
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 29, 2011 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
this stupid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBSpyRIx2yg
I was one of the authors of the Port Huron Statement.
“Pound for pound, his speed and power is on par with Rashad Evans. Even though Rashad out weighs him by 35lbs.”
There is so much wrong with this. Do they not know what ‘pound for pound’ means? Its hard to believe they don’t know how stupid this is. They just believe that we don’t any better.
Why can’t they just tell us his VO2 max? It would tell us exactly where his cardio is in comparison to other world class athletes or anyone for that matter.
They should call they show “Phighting Phacts”.
"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."
fun fact
2,400 watts is 3.2 horse power – GSP > 3 horses
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