Why Strikeforce Still Matters
by Rainer Lee on Apr 28, 2011 8:51 AM EDT
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This Fan Post was promoted to the front page by Nick Thomas.
Word is that Strikeforce is a bit of a lame duck. The news that middleweight Jason "Mayhem" Miller is making the move to the UFC seems to confirm any suspicions that Strikeforce's days are numbered. And why not? Whereas the organization was once seen as a viable, relatively high-profile alternative for those mixed martial artists working outside the UFC (either by choice or circumstance), and whereas Strikeforce once acted as a nice bit of leverage at the UFC's negotiating table, it seems that Strikeforce will soon be incapable of functioning in either capacity. Now that it's owned by Zuffa, the idea that Strikeforce would maintain with any earnestness a bidding war with the UFC is naïve. Similarly, it's fair to say that Dana White's personal preferences and frustrations will, down the line, influence Strikeforce's dealings with talent--he has, after all, already begun to exert control over Strikeforce's media coverage, this in spite of White's mantra of "business as usual."
So then, if it's not nipping at the UFC's heels, why keep Strikeforce around any longer than necessary? Well, I can give you a whole bunch of reasons: King Mo and Keith Jardine, Lavar Johnson and Robbie Lawler, Mike Kyle, Ovince St. Preux, Tyron Woodley, and Evangelista Santos. In the last twelve months, all of them have been featured on the main card of a Strikeforce event, showing flashes of genius and competing with admirable ferocity. They are a group of compelling prospects and veterans of serious reputation. They are, by-and-large, not ready for the UFC.
When it comes to the likes of Muhammed "King Mo" Lawal or, say, Rafael "Feijao" Cavalcante, what we have is someone who could develop into a top-notch wrecking machine, if given the time and space. What a shame it would be for fight fans, then, if the UFC did indeed absorb Strikeforce, and Cavalcante fell through the cracks; what a shame if Lawal were pulled to the upper echelon too early. After all, that sudden rise to the top can give a career the bends.
Personally, I'd much rather see Lawal and Cavalcante--and Shane del Rosario and Tarec Saffiedine and Roger Gracie--proceed more deliberately through their career. The operative word, of course, being "see." Because if Strikeforce does disappear, those fighters who aren't yet ready for the UFC will be doing a lot of their work on untelevised shows. And that goes double for the likes of Cyborg Santos and Keith Jardine--exciting fighters who, nevertheless, have already had their shot at the big time and fallen short. This leaves us with hearing about Cung Le versus Scott Smith through the grape vine, and reading about Sergei Kharitonov's comeback on some weekend rundown. Unacceptable! I spit on weekend rundowns!
This isn't to say that the UFC doesn't offer similar thrills. Rather, it's that we can't get enough. Which brings us to another point. Even if each and every Strikeforce fighter was ready for the big stage, the UFC couldn't accommodate them. Plenty of analysis on the subject has already been done on the UFC's roster, in the wake of the WEC merger particularly, and the takeaway is that the UFC isn't expanding. Rosters are constantly being trimmed, and there's no reason to think that this would change following a merger with Strikeforce. Hence that organization's significance. Taking for granted that Strikeforce is indeed operating with its own budget and profit margins, we can say that Zuffa's two promotions can put on more shows separately than if the UFC were to simply absorb Strikeforce. And that's exactly why fight fans should be hoping that Strikeforce pulls through.
Ideally, Strikeforce would remain as a proving ground for tomorrow's great contenders, and a stage for the slowing veterans who still know how to put on a show-surely Renato Sobral is too good for us to be catching his latest fight on some fan-shot Youtube video, and surely someone like Luke Rockhold is too exciting an up-and-comer to not see with our own eyes. That MMA needs another visible promotion becomes yet more apparent when you consider the nascent female divisions, and the increasing migration of fighters from the Japanese circuit looking to lay down roots and fists in the more profitable North American market.
I don't want to see the UFC replace Strikeforce because, really, it can't. Not comprehensively. There are simply too many mixed martial artists, there are too many fights I want to see. When it comes to the UFC and Strikeforce, the world's too big for just the one of them.
Rainer Lee
On my couch, watching Repo Games
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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I just want them to absorb the good fighters
and rebrand it as UFC presents: Strikeforce…
You slap that UFC logo on there so it comes with the brand recognition, but also with the Strikeforce name so that people know that it’s the second-tier versionl.
Think about it!
by ET Son on Apr 28, 2011 12:43 AM EDT reply actions 6 recs
That sounds pretty good.
Where would you get your Abongo Humphrey fix otherwise?
"You son of a bitch, give me my plunger back."
- welterweight contender Josh Koscheck
I think this will probably happen.
http://fightdrinker.blogspot.com
by some schmuck in texas on Apr 28, 2011 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I cannot disagree.
"You son of a bitch, give me my plunger back."
- welterweight contender Josh Koscheck
I remember watching Ryan Couture fight Lee Higgins on Strikeforce Challengers.Higgins only had two fights, and Ryan Couture only had one professional MMA fight during that time. It was a good fight, Ryan is a good prospect, and Higgins was a good opponents for him. Ryan got in a lot of cage time and managed to pull off the finish, and I felt it was a good fight for his development. Here’s the thing though, Ryan Couture could not get that opponent in the UFC. The UFC generally has only the very best fighters on their roster, and the prospects that they have tend to be outstanding prospects with high-level skill. There are few exceptions like fighters coming out of TUF and whatnot, but mostly, there are higher level fighters on the roster. Besides Ryan Couture, I think someone like Cody McKenzie should fight on Strikeforce Challengers because there are more fighters there that are on his level.
I really hope that Zuffa keeps Strikeforce as their feeder/developmental league as it would help the UFC and many MMA fighters. It would also help the UFC build some fighters from the ground up, and I know that they are doing that with Matt Riddle, Matt Mitrione, and Amir Sadollah, but I can’t imagine many new fighters being able to start their MMA career in the UFC and manage to keep winning.
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by chrisbboy82 on Apr 28, 2011 1:38 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
That's the thing,
Strikeforce has brought along some great talent. I definitely think it would be a great place for not- yet- ready prospects, entertaining veterans that can’t be justified to take up valuable UFC roster space, women’s fights, tournaments, freak shows… etc.
All the things which the UFC can’t concern itself, Strikeforce would be great for. However, historical precedence is that SF will be absorbed and folded.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 29, 2011 4:53 AM EDT up reply actions
While I still wish they never sold out,
this would be a great alternative to dissolving SF altogether.
“I spit on weekend rundowns!”
Strikeforce doesn't matter.
All that matters are the stupid contracts involving Showtime. If it wasn’t for that horrible way of doing business, we’d already be seeing the best SF fighters against the best UFC fighters.
Can you imagine if the UFC had a Spike clause in their contracts? Can you imagine being forced into putting the GSP’s and Lesnar’s on free Spike cards? That’d never happen.
You're missing the point.
You’re the average fan who only really cares about the Overeems and Melendezs of Strikeforce, fighters that on the surface could compete at the top level of the sport tomorrow, and you could give a fuck about what happens to the guys that aren’t at the very peak of their division. His argument is that the prospects and veterans SF does have are still worthy of being shown on TV even if they’re not competing in the UFC – that there is room for a second tier organization in the MMA world.
"Unless you can’t think of something intelligent to say, don’t reply and make the world as dumb as you are appearing to be." - mabel4life
by lowellthehammer on Apr 28, 2011 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions 11 recs
Those propects could just as easily make a living and develop fighting on Fight Night cards, or on prelims of PPV fights. I don’t see the problem.
And the exciting veterans SF does have, like Lawler (for example), would have their place on UFC cards. If the UFC was willing to give Baroni 3-4 fights in the UFC recently, there’s no question a guy like Lawler would have his shot too. I honestly don’t see the problem.
How quickly was Baroni put out to pasture again?
I don’t have a lot of faith in the UFC doing SF fighters any favors when it comes to matchmaking. I guess we’ll see.
"Unless you can’t think of something intelligent to say, don’t reply and make the world as dumb as you are appearing to be." - mabel4life
by lowellthehammer on Apr 28, 2011 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions
So, you’re telling me putting Baroni in against Amir and then Brad Tavares is a murderers’ row in the UFC? Come on. The UFC gave him all the chance in the world to prove his worth by putting him up against average-at-best UFC fighters.
The only thing of worth in SF is its fighters… why would the UFC buy all of those fighters and then set them up to lose and let them go as soon as they join the UFC’s ranks? What’d be the point in that?
Now, they won’t pair up elite SF guys against UFC bums either… Joe Silva will do what he always does and try to find the best matchups to see where everyone stands in the divisions.
by Shnak on Apr 28, 2011 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
To eliminate the competition?
Thought that was pretty thoroughly covered already. The fighters are a secondary thing.
If you don’t see the purpose of a second-tier league I’m not going to convince you, but I don’t see what harm it could do. Just because Mousasi can’t beat Jason Brilz doesn’t mean he should be relegated to fighting in some untelevised show in the Netherlands. Just because Jardine isn’t a top 25 LHW doesn’t mean that he should be headlining regional events in New Mexico.
"Unless you can’t think of something intelligent to say, don’t reply and make the world as dumb as you are appearing to be." - mabel4life
by lowellthehammer on Apr 28, 2011 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sure, I see the purpose of a second-tier league, but there’s always going to be second-tier legues, losing Strikeforce won’t change that.
And besides, Strikeforce isn’t really known to grow talent, they’re mostly known for picking the leftovers of other organisations and trying to build those guys up. If SF was serious about growing talent, we would’ve seen guys such as Cormier and Shane Del Rosario a lot more in their main shows instead of freakshows like Cung Le, and 48 year old Hershel Walker.
What’s happening here is a classic case of suddenly appreciating something a LOT more than should really be happening as soon as it disappears. Before the UFC bought SF, most people appreciated SF for its exciting matchmaking, with basically no one talking about them developping prospects. Now that the UFC’s bought them, it’s all about the poor prospects that won’t be able to develop in the UFC. And that’s BS. The UFC has a ton of prospect right now, adding 10 or so prospects from SF in each division will only do good in the UFC, and we’ll see which prospects are quality ones and which aren’t.
Again, you misunderstand (becoming a trend).
We’re not talking about Strikeforce continuing to exist as it was pre-Zuffa, we’re talking about a Zuffa managed second-tier league for fighters that aren’t quite UFC level that keeps the SF name and TV exposure.
Yes, there will always be other leagues, but the only one even close to where SF was in terms of exposure is Bellator, and their contracts make it difficult for fighters to leave so their model doesn’t fit for guys that might want to go to the UFC in the future.
"Unless you can’t think of something intelligent to say, don’t reply and make the world as dumb as you are appearing to be." - mabel4life
by lowellthehammer on Apr 28, 2011 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ok, fine, I agree with that. I’ve said from the beginning that I was hoping the UFC would keep the SF Challengers concept to groom their prospects, maybe rebranding it UFC Challengers, or something. Not sure Showtime would like the idea of only having the Challengers shows without the main shows, though.
A lot of what Lowell's said I agree with, of course.
And I agree with you that some people are probably getting a little too misty eyed over what was, let’s admit, a deeply flawed promotion. However, I still believe that Strikeforce (or some analog of it) is important in that it offers a chance for fighters like Cyborg or Woodley to be seen, and for us to see them.
And while your point about prospects in the UFC is fair, that still doesn’t account for guys like Baroni, or Jardine. You’re right that Baroni deserved to be cut, but people still want to see him. I still want to see Jardine and Sobral and so on, but they don’t belong in what the UFC president described as “the superbowl” of mma, so what’s to be done? Hopefully a second-tier promotion is there to pick up the slack. The reason why Strikeforce is important is that it already has connections to Showtime and CBS; hopefully Zuffa could maintain those connections, and keep Strikeforce (or some rebranded version thereof) in place.
"You son of a bitch, give me my plunger back."
- welterweight contender Josh Koscheck
Guys such as Baroni and Jardine are not what Strikeforce needs either… those guys are better suited for one-off`s promotions like Bamma or Shark Fights where they need a ‘name’ to sell their event. SF is past that point where they have already have a roster of fighters that can’t get enough fights as it in, no point in signing Baroni’s and Jardine’s…
It's a hypothetical. Calm down.
But now that I think about it…his wrestling is pretty damn turrible. Be an interesting match.
"Unless you can’t think of something intelligent to say, don’t reply and make the world as dumb as you are appearing to be." - mabel4life
by lowellthehammer on Apr 28, 2011 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
love how peole confuse wrestling a.
by mortarz on Apr 29, 2011 4:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don’t want to see the UFC replace Strikeforce because, really, it can’t. Not comprehensively. There are simply too many mixed martial artists, there are too many fights I want to see.
How many events did Strikeforce put on last year? 6? You don’t think the UFC can increase their number of events by 6? I’d say that is very possible since the UFC has been very outspoken about their desire to be holding events every week.
If by 6 you mean 15
Seven were Challenger shows though, and StrikeForce doesn’t do most of the their own prelims.
Anyway I think the UFC will be fine adding more shows once StrikeForce is fully prepped to be absorbed, but that won’t happen until the Showtime contract is up.
Meh, I don’t really count the challengers shows, but okay. My point is that once the Showtime crap is done with, the UFC will bring in everyone that’s worth it and put on more shows in order to keep everyone that’s worth keeping.
Also, let’s not act as though Strikeforce is this incredible place for fighters to earn a living… most of them complain about not getting enough fights. If they’re good enough, the UFC will give those guys enough fights, don’t worry about it.
Squish: You’re post was well-written, but I disagree with the conclusion. I get what you mean about certain SF fighters having potential, but not being ready. The place we differ is the idea that that means they’re not ready for the UFC. Why does the UFC have to be a place that only has room for the top 10-20 guys in each division? In 2010, the UFC put on 6 free events (either on Spike or Versus). Why couldn’t they put on more? King Mo being in the UFC doesn’t mean he has to fight the top guys (even though, if you listen to him, he can definitely beat Bones). Put him up against a guy like Bonnar or Steve Cantwell. I get that he’s not ready for Bones or Rashad, but you don’t think he could take anybody in the UFC LHW division? Look, I’m admittedly a UFC apologist. I’m biased and open about it. I think they put on the best show in town, and I want to see all the best fighters be a part of that show. There’s no reason why guys like King Mo and Cavalcante can’t be eased into the UFC octagon against lesser 205’ers, because at the end of the day, it means we get to see guys like Melendez, Diaz, and Overeem (just to name a few) finally answering the questions about who the best guys in the world are.
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by Kevin Haggerty on Apr 28, 2011 9:13 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Good post. That’s exactly how I feel. The UFC isn’t stupid, they’ll pair up the non-elite SF guys against middle of the road UFC fighters to see where they stand and go from there. Just like they did with the WEC guys… guys like Cerone, Kamal and Bendo didn’t go straight in to fight Edgar or Maynard, they fought Kelly, Miller and Bocek, respectively. I see the exact same thing happening to the non-elite SF guys.
Why does the UFC have to be a place that only has room for the top 10-20 guys in each division?
Because they have done everything in their power to make it that way. When you cut guys coming off of 1 loss or 2 losses, you’re not exactly trying to send a message that putting on a good fight is the priority.
In 2010, the UFC put on 6 free events (either on Spike or Versus). Why couldn’t they put on more?
All about precedent. What did the UFC do when it absorbed the WEC? Cut a ton of fighters. Why should we expect differently with SF?
"Unless you can’t think of something intelligent to say, don’t reply and make the world as dumb as you are appearing to be." - mabel4life
by lowellthehammer on Apr 28, 2011 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions
AFAIK, most WEC fighters who were brought in are still in the UFC.
And I think the UFC’s been very fair with fighters in general as to who they keep and who they cut following losses. You rarely see guys getting cut after a single loss, and when it happens, it’s usually a mixture of boring fight and other factors too (bad attitude, etc.) Most of the time, they let guys lose three in a row before they get cut.
You're not following.
When the UFC brings in new fighters, they ramp up pink slips. They’re not looking to expand their roster and thus their number of events, they’re looking to replace guys.
"Unless you can’t think of something intelligent to say, don’t reply and make the world as dumb as you are appearing to be." - mabel4life
by lowellthehammer on Apr 28, 2011 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s not what Dana and the other UFC guys have said… they need more fighters to do more shows. Who are you to directly contradict what they’re saying?
From his interview with Helwani when he announced the SF purchase:
“As we continue to grow and expand into these other countries, we need more fights,” White explained in his interview with Helwani. “Let’s face the facts: Strikeforce is a brand fans have come to like.”
Besides, the numbers are clear, the number of shows the UFC puts on increases every year, 20 in 2009, 24 in 2010, and already 17 scheduled thru September 2011. There will likely be 26 or 27 shows in 2011, and that number is likely to increase in 2012, especially if a new TV parnters hungry for MMA comes along instead of Spike.
Lets run a bit of math on your numbers here. 26 shows x 10 fights per card x 2 fighters per fight= 520 spots per year/3 fights per year per fighter= 173.3 fighters. Right now the UFC has around 260 fighters on contract. Strikeforce has 70-80 on their roster. If Zuffa wanted to merge them together and give them all 3 fights a year then you are talking about having around 50 cards a year (4+ a month). The UFC is planning on cutting their roster down already (by a significant amount), they aren’t going to be able to add even a fraction of the Strikeforce guys unless they are planning on darn near doubling how many cards they do a year.
Strikeforce did 15 cards last year (and has already done 7 cards in 2011), The UFC did 24 last year (and will be up to 8 cards this year Saturday). Even if you add the two together for 2011 you only going to get around 40 shows. Combined they can’t support the roster numbers, if you eliminate one company and don’t double the shows the company does then you are going to have to cut 100 to 150 fighters. Yes the UFC will be adding a lot of fights as they expand overseas but then they will be needing to add lots of local fighters in all those expansion spots too so overseas expansion isn’t really going to help this situation all that much.
Looks like the UFC has been going with 12 fights a card for a lot of their 2011 cards, that would up things from 173.3 to 208 fighters, which fits with stories that the UFC is planning on cutting down to around 200 fighters on contract.
It should also be noted that Strikeforce isn’t booking undercards for their events and they are only running 4 to 5 fights per card currently.
But, your forgetting that by the time the UFC decides to absorb SF (which can’t happen for another 2 years), they might be up into the 30+ fights per year.
And let’s face it, once the UFC absorbs SF, there’s some dead wood from both rosters that can be cut without anyone missing them.
It’s not about “dead wood” it’s about the fact that with fewer fighters getting exposure there will be fewer up and coming fighters for the UFC to snag and less ways for those up and coming fighters to gain experience. I could care less about the stars of today, they all had a system to come up in to get to where they are today but what happens if the feeder system gets broken due to a lack of opportunity? Even 30 cards a year isn’t going to cut it if Zuffa is going to have to fill the role of major league and development league too.
by who me on Apr 29, 2011 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Before I post/ask these questions, I’m admitting to not having done any research. I’m shooting from the hip and could very well be wrong.
That being said, you talk about the UFC cutting guys coming off 1-2 losses. Can you give examples of that happening? I’m certainly allowing the possibility of it happening, but would guess it was in a scenario where the fighter(s) was very unimpressive and obviously not worthy of the big show (and by that, I don’t mean losing tough fights to top guys….I mean coming in and Kalib Starnes’ing it).
You also talked about the UFC cutting “a ton of fighters” when it absorbed the WEC. Who did they cut that you miss watching? Honestly.
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by Kevin Haggerty on Apr 28, 2011 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
The UFC has been cutting 3 to 4 guys after every event, talk is that they want to cut anywhere from 30 to 50 guys off their roster. They also have to cut to make room for new guys they sign on top of paring the roster down too. Google for “UFC ____ cuts” (fill the blank with the event name or number) and you will get plenty of hits. Off the top of my head I know Antonio McKee recently got one fight in the UFC, he came in lost and was gone, it’s not all that uncommon and when you look at guys with 2 losses in a row it becomes a pretty common occurance.
I never said the UFC wasn’t cutting people. It’s the nature of the business and probably will never change. My question was in relation to guys who got cut after only one fight. The implication was that the UFC didn’t give guys a fair shot.
The McKee example does answer that question, but: A) That is not the norm, and B) There was a circumstance behind that. White also cut James Toney after one fight. Toney and McKee were in similar boats. Although McKee is much more talented and experienced than Toney, both fighters bragged loudly about being able to come into the UFC and destroy everyone (paraphrasing). Toney got destroyed and there was no reason to bring him back. McKee did not get destroyed, but he didn’t look good, and let’s be honest, Dana has a long memory and a short fuse. McKee’s cutting was an example of Dana making an example of a guy who talked and didn’t back it up. Was it fair? Maybe not, but it isn’t the norm or the way the UFC generally deals with its fighters.
You seem to be arguing that there’s no way to consolidate the UFC and SF so that no fighters lose their jobs. I don’t think anyone was arguing to the contrary. The argument was more that guys like Mo and Feijao won’t lose their jobs. The lesser SF and UFC probably will. There are still places like MFC, BAMMA and Titan where up and comers can make their bones.
Again, who has the UFC cut that you really miss watching. Be honest.
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twitter.com/mmabuffet
by Kevin Haggerty on Apr 28, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
watching? punctuation is hard.
http://mmabuffet.blogspot.com
twitter.com/mmabuffet
by Kevin Haggerty on Apr 28, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s not the norm but then the way they are cutting guys in mass since the WEC merger isn’t the norm for them either. Look at a guy like Chris Camozzi, he got three fights in the UFC, won the first two and then lost one and got cut. Camozzi even stated that the UFC told him he was cut due to the roster needing to be trimmed down because they didn’t have enough fights for everyone. I mean just because I can only think of a couple of guys recently cut for one loss doesn’t mean that it’s hard to google up examples of a lot of guys getting cut recently in the UFC.
Here is an article about the UFC trimming the roster from back in January that lays out the issue:
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/1/24/1953779/ufc-lightweight-division-due-for-a-bloodbath
I like watching Sobral, Jardine, and Jason Macdonald (who they’ve brought back), and I wouldn’t have minded seeing a little more of Horodecki, Camozzi, or, god help me, Antonio McKee.
Your point that there are other places for them to earn purses is well taken, but with some exception, most of those shows can’t be watched on television. And as a fan that visibility is, for me, the main issue at the moment.
"You son of a bitch, give me my plunger back."
- welterweight contender Josh Koscheck
I used Ryan Couture as an example above in how he just is not ready for the UFC, and there are prospects like him, Roger Bowling, John Cholish, James Terry, and many other prospects that just aren’t UFC ready. Strikeforce Challengers is a perfect place for them and their development. The UFC, while having guys like Mitrione, Sadollah and Riddle, is not the place for developing low-level prospects as the UFC doesn’t have too many lower-tier fighters and other prospects on that level skillwise. They develop the high-level prospects like Jon Jones, Phil Davis who fight at a high level early in their MMA career.
Check out the C&D Channel on YouTube for MMA reviews, predictions, analysis, and other MMA related content.
by chrisbboy82 on Apr 28, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
hmm...
After all, that sudden rise to the top can give a career the bends.
by RS26 on Apr 28, 2011 9:48 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
You could counter that with
or
or even
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 29, 2011 5:00 AM EDT up reply actions
The problem with Strikeforce is that it doesn’t have the depth in its 155, 170, and 185-pound divisions to compete as a big-time promotion. So why keep it? There’s only one big league in other major sports.
The last Strikeforce show was incredible, but I’m still pissed at the way guys like Melendez and Jacare are seeing their prime years wasted until Strikeforce can scrape up someone for them to fight. If these guys were in the UFC, they’d be fighting a steady three times a year, barring injury.
There’s only one big league in other major sports.
I would tend to disagree saying as Football is a major sport and the Spanish, English, Italian, German leagues would all fall into the category of ‘big leagues’
Not really, the CFL might count as a second “big league” but when you get right down to direct comparisons to the NFL they really aren’t. There isn’t really a comparison league for the NFL, NBA or MLB anywhere they are by far the kings of the hill in their respective sports.
The issue here is that while there may on be on “big league” in the big US ball sports they have exstensive minor leagues and feeder systems (including the huge NCAA sports system that feeds them vast numbers of potential stars). The UFC’s feeder leagues are the regional shows and the second tier shows. Well the second tier shows are Strikeforce, WEC, Bellator and the Japanese leagues. Well Zuffa just merged the WEC and bought Strikeforce and JMMA has darn near dried up as a place for high level prospects. There is a real need for an intermediate national level feeder league into the UFC and Strikeforce is made to fill that role (it was pretty much one of it’s roles before they bought it). Without a strong feeder system the UFC doesn’t have prepared and tested prospective stars in the future and the whole thing falls apart.
He was talking about soccer
Lots of big leagues in that sport
tweet dana a smiley face when Shields gets the sub
There was an attempted murder on the 'set' of Repo Games recently
As they filmed an irate next door neighbor came out guns blazing and just started shooting for no reason. He didnt hit anyone though.
The More You Know
Have to disagree
Dana has stated on multiple occasions that he has plans to host a UFC event every weekend and eventually even have multiple shows on the same day. If this is the case, the absorbtion is 100% necessary and infact I feel this method would increase the ease and accesibility of fight videos
by DCJon. on Apr 28, 2011 11:14 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Unless he wants to rebrand the SF Challengers into UFC Challengers and count those cards into the overall count of Zuffa cards. Then it makes sense to keep SF around, under a different name, sure, but still SF in essence.
I just feel as one brand it would make match making easier. Also at 52 cards a year and with the assumption that each fighter will fight 3 times per year that gives the UFC a roster of 416 fighters and with 7 divisions that is about 60 fighters per division. Realistically is there over 60 fighters in each division that have the skill level to fight the best in the world?
Well, there’s already some type of talent division within the UFC where some guys are PPV only guys and others can fight on Fight Night cards. I don’t think we’ll see much more than 14-15 PPV events per year, the rest will have to be free fights on Spike or whatever. That means that the UFC will only need 25-30 or so established top talent per division to fight on PPV cards, and the other 30-35 or so can be prospects and rising stars fighting on free fights until they make a name for themselves and get promoted to PPV cards.
Well I think best case scenario, they absorb SF and the FN and Versus cards for free are super stacked cards also. Stacked cards all year. But regardless how they end up doing it I think as a fan a monopoly is the best option and as long as the UFC are decent regarding players salaries it could be good for everyone
by DCJon. on Apr 29, 2011 2:16 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Miller signing with UFC isn't a sign of anything
SF wasn’t using him at all.
Anyway, Zuffa won’t touch the main stars in SF until the Showtime deals are done or they do some sort of buyout of the Showtime deals.
While the money/contracts may not let this happen
Since TUF has become so stale and is losing viewship, I say can the whole thing, convert SF into a feeder league that becomes weekly or bi monthly television and helps grow/build future top fighters and stars. SF doesn’t go away or suffer a prestige lost because it then becomes the proving grounds for all the up and comers (or down and outers). People genuinely are interested in not only the best fighting the best, but the idea of watching someone grow into a position of mastery. SF can fill that desire.
Fight nights and versus events are stuck in the middle here, a bit of a marketing limbo, but I say phase them into SF as the feeder league model.
Keep UFC as PPV events and let them have only the big boys fighting it out. Top 15ish in each division.
Additionally
some rebranding may need to occur to SF. Right now, cognitively, the UFC and SF are to separate in name, sound, and conception. Something as simple as renaming SF to USF, Ultimate Strike Force, will help tie the two organizations together perceptually and reinforce their conceptual relationship.
Some clarification, please?
First, I have to say this was a great article, but I’m a bit confused on some of your points.
1) Are you saying that Strikeforce will promote mainly the up-and-coming and past-their-prime fighters of the UFC? Or is it more of a “minor league” show?
2) Would a Strikeforce Main Card be theoretically better than a UFC preliminary card? If so, would no-name fighters fight on the UFC undercards, then Strikeforce, then the UFC?
3) How easy would it be for fighters to simply jump between promotions as it seems appropriate?
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Interesting questions.
1. For me, ideally, it would be both. Jardine vs. Henderson, for example, might anchor a card populated by up-and-comers as well as entertaining fighters who’s rankings are stagnant/irrelevant (eg Waachiim Spiritwolf, Bobby Voelker, etc.).
2. I’m not sure, honestly. I guess that depends on how visible the UFC were to keep Strikeforce. Things being what they are now, i imagine the hierarchy might go something like SF Challengers Card, UFC Fight Night, UFC undercard, Strikeforce main card, UFC main card? Answering this question really requires an answer to your next question first…
3. and…I don’t know. The idea that UFC undercard fighters could jump to SF Challengers main cards makes sense in some ways, but might confuse things as far as branding goes. Interesting things to think about.
"You son of a bitch, give me my plunger back."
- welterweight contender Josh Koscheck
thanks
Yes, I realized most of these questions are simply unable to be answered at this point, but I just wanted to hear your thoughts on them. I’m sure Zuffa management is dealing with these questions as we speak. Again, great article.
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Nice piece
and I would add to the long list of SF fighters who I really want to see more of in Strikeforce fights:
Lorenz “da Monsoon” Larkin, and
Paul “Semtex” Daley
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
Agreed. I think Larkin especially is a great example of someone who I’d like to keep seeing, but who isn’t ready for the UFC. Do you think Daley could have made a decent go of it in the UFC?
"You son of a bitch, give me my plunger back."
- welterweight contender Josh Koscheck
So you don’t think there’s one guy in the UFC’s LHW division that Larkin would fair well against?
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by Kevin Haggerty on Apr 28, 2011 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
At this point I don’t know enough about him to say for sure. My guess is that he could fair well against some, but as of now I doubt that he could make himself essential to the division. If he were, hypothetically, to make a go of it and end up cut after two to five fights, it would make sense, given that he’s interesting to watch, that he re-tool in a visible second-tier promotion rather than RITC or something.
"You son of a bitch, give me my plunger back."
- welterweight contender Josh Koscheck
The UFC is brutal for Daley
He’d probably be better off taking his chances at 185 than dealing with the cavalcade of wrestlers at 170. Semtex is one of my favorite fighters, but he needs a certain kind of matchmaking to put on the best show. He may never be champ, but I think he can still be interesting. Strikeforce has been, and could continue to be, a great home for him.
Larkin is a different story. That guy could be special. I just want to see more of him in any format.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Apr 28, 2011 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
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