UFC 129: Has Lyoto Machida Been Figured Out?
by Nate Wilcox on Apr 27, 2011 5:00 PM EDT
in MMA Technique
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After his utter deconstruction of Rashad Evans to take the UFC light heavyweight title at UFC 98, Joe Rogan infamously announced the "Machida Era".
Here at Bloody Elbow we wallowed in his innovative style with a series of Judo Chops and reviews of his training materials and other assorted analysis pieces:
- The Karate Wizardry of Lyoto Machida
- Lyoto Machida Blends Muay Thai and Jiu Jitsu
- The Karate Kuzushi Waza Foot Sweeps of Lyoto Machida
- Intercepting Punches and Trip Take Downs With Lyoto Machida
- A Review of Machida-Do Karate for MMA (DVD)
- Lyoto Machida's "Machida Karate-Do Mixed Martial Arts Techniques"
- There Are No Shortcuts in Shotokan Karate
- Lyoto Machida's Round 1 Performance at UFC 84
- Is Lyoto Machida the Second Coming of Royce Gracie?
But then along came Mauricio Rua at UFC 104 to show us how to frustrate Machida and take him out of his game. It wasn't enough to get the decision, but most who saw that fight felt Shogun won. Here's our post-fight analysis of how he did it:
- Shogun Rua Promises New Strategies for Rematch With Machida
- Breaking Down the Chessmatch That Is Lyoto Machida vs Mauricio "Shogun" Rua
- Lyoto Machida vs Mauricio "Shogun" Rua 2, The Chess Match, Continued
Shogun essentially took almost all of Machida's tools away by doing a few simple things:
- Machida's Shotokan Karate style emphasizes evading strikes above all else;
- Machida fights outside the kickboxing range of most fighters, he lunges in to land punches then retreats and throws kicks from the far outside -- aiming to land with his feet rather than his shins as Muay Thai-based fighters do;
- Machida looks to strike at the very instant when his opponent has committed to a strike and is therefore helpless to react;
- Machida is also a double threat from the clinch: Machida has incorporated a fair bit of Muay Thai into his clinch game, especially knees from the plum, he also has an arsenal of trips and sweeps from the most common wrestling tie ups;
- Machida loves to trip and sweep opponents while also landing punches and kicks from range;
- Machida uses a bewildering array of feints and misdirections to keep opponents guessing.
By doing all this Shogun turned Machida's wearing game of evasive maneuver and hit-and-run tactics into a grinding war of attrition. By the championship rounds of the fight it was clear that Shogun's kicks to the legs and body had worn down Machida far more than the punches to the head that Shogun ate in exchange.
- Constantly walking down Machida and cutting off the cage while maintaining a tight defensive posture with his hands up;
- Ignoring the movement of Machida's limbs and focusing entirely on his trunk;
- Refusing to strike first but immediately countering with kicks to the legs and body anytime Machida lunged in to strike.
Rampage Jackson was able to apply at least part of Shogun's template to his UFC 123 bout with Machida. He constantly came forward while waiting for Machida to throw the first strike. Although Machida had the only dominant round of the fight, the judges gave it to Rampage. Here's our breakdown of that round:
The question going into UFC 129 is whether or not Randy Couture -- universally acknowledged as one of the best game-planners in MMA history -- can apply these lessons and beat Machida. 
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Machida with the right adjustments can beat anyone in the division
The pain that you carry is the love that you never showed
by Lestat. on Apr 27, 2011 5:07 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
imo you're right
With the glaring exception of jon jones
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by Nate Wilcox on Apr 27, 2011 5:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You don’t think he can beat Jon Jones?
"You should work for 15 minutes to knock your opponent out, submit him, or improve your position to give yourself the best chance of doing either." - Dan Hardy
for a man who himself was once seen as unbeatable, it makes sense that he can think he has a chance.
that’s the craziest part of this sport, you never know. he might get decimated, or he might beat the snot out of Jones. we won’t know until we see it.
by Victor Rodriguez on Apr 27, 2011 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I can’t fathom why some people don’t think he’s matches up well with Jones, relative to the division. He’s got power and accuracy in his punches, his footwork and head movement are dynamite (Shogun knockdown notwithstanding), and he has the defensive grappling chops (especially in the clinch) to stuff some of Jones can accomplish takedown-wise. It’s hardly a slam-dunk, but given his contemporaries, he looks pretty decent.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Apr 27, 2011 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
good post
Lyoto Machida is exactly the kind of guy who Jones might get cute with and end up eating a punch to the back of the head while trying some video game spinning elbow stuff.
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"...just when you think you’ve produced your magnum opus, someone shows up and takes a giant shit in your mouth. In your mouth." - Anthony Pace
Don't eat B.L.T. sammaches
by Urijah Bieber on Apr 27, 2011 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions
his footwork and head movement are dynamite (Shogun knockdown notwithstanding)
Agree with this and I’d further say that the Shogun knockout was more of a power knockout than one based on agility and speed (consistent with his fight strategy). It’s not clear (yet) if Jones can manage and deliver his aggression the way Shogun did. It will be great to find out, though
I'm 50/50 on that one. But I would still put my money on Lyoto.
The pain that you carry is the love that you never showed
At this point in Jones career at least. Skill wise I think with Machida's incredible timing Bones gets tagged pretty bad.
The pain that you carry is the love that you never showed
I can see Machida taking Jones past round three, and Jones gassing.
And then God created Saturn ... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
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by James Brady on Apr 27, 2011 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions
...
Nate, sooner or later you’re going to realize just as I did that there’s a difference between knowing the path and walking the path.
If you can't wow them with brilliance, then baffle them with bullshit.
by DayGeaux on Apr 27, 2011 5:22 PM EDT reply actions 9 recs
Lyoto is lucky this fight is not taking place in florida.
We have really strict rules on abusing the elderly.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 27, 2011 5:27 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I’ll remember that when I’m in St. Pete later this year.
NOTE TO SELF: Do NOT hit old people & do NOT drink on the beach…check.
If you can't wow them with brilliance, then baffle them with bullshit.
Maderia Beach you are allowed to drink.
Its the next beach up from st.pete beach. Just no glass. And pinellas is so small land wise (the county that st.pete is in). That is literally 5 mins up the road….. and you’re welcome. Johns pass is the place to visit for laid back tourists.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 27, 2011 6:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I remember finding it on BE somewhere, but I didn’t know you designed it. That’s pretty awesome Anton. Did you do the Wand\Street fighter photoshop too?
If you can't wow them with brilliance, then baffle them with bullshit.
nah.
but aside from the blood-work on the chest, this one looks fucking awesome.
by Anton Tabuena on Apr 28, 2011 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I dont see why Machida is being wasted on Randy
Would love to see him against someone like Bader or Griffin just to see how he handles the huge 205ers.
by mortarz on Apr 27, 2011 5:38 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I don't think Dana White is very enthusiastic about Machida
I don’t think he’s a fan and would just as soon send him packing if he can. I’m not sure what the issue is. He might resent the lack of English fluency (hard to market I guess) and, frankly may not be that keen on Machida-style.
On the other hand, I don’t think the timing worked out for other LH fighters to contend with. The division may be “stacked” but it’s all top and no middle. Personally, I think a rematch with Jackson makes more sense than Jackson/Hammill.
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
Mohandas Gandhi
"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses - behind the lines, in the gym, and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights."
Muhammad Ali
"If MMA is like dog fighting, those are some pretty fucking smart dogs."
"I don’t want to lick any butt."
GSP
yea i get that feeling also
He kind of gave machida the thumbs down in the first shogun fight and rampage fight declaring he thought he lost those fights.
I think it had alot to do with Machida saying hed never fight Andy. Dana hates that crap and it was a superfight at the time
he definitely isn't
because he’s a boorish philistine. His ideal is Leonard Garcia.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Apr 27, 2011 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
recced for SAT vocab.
I’d rec it once for boorish and once for philistine if I could. Great stuff!
http://fightdrinker.blogspot.com
by some schmuck in texas on Apr 27, 2011 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions
thanks
for appreciating my loquaciousness.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Apr 27, 2011 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Loquacious?
You aren’t that long-winded/talkative!
And for the record I think he'd beat Jones
Jones is exactly the type of agressive striker Machida feasts on.
Great article and I'm going to go back and re-read each of those judo chops
Has he been figured out?
I don’t think so. I think that Rua is one of the worst match ups for Machida because Rua has enough footwork and athleticism to aggressively close distance and land strikes, be it the leg kicks in the first fight or the punches in the second. I don’t see that blend of athleticism and technique anywhere else in the division (Jones may have too much athleticism, but thats another story)
The Rampage fight was more a result of Machida’s style not being compatible with MMA scoring rules. He was a little too defensive in the first two rounds, didn’t take any damage, didn’t clearly lose the rounds but didn’t really do anything to win them either.
I don’t see any reason why other fighters would be able to implement Shogun’s style to beat Machida, I think Machida beats most the 205ers in the UFC,
He may not have the 'element of surprise', as much as he once did
but he’s still a good fighter, and will do what most good fighters do, which is imrpove and evolve.
Initial enthusiasm followed by a quick backlash
With a lot of writers, it seemed they were on-board with Machida then felt betrayed because he didn’t walk through Rua. Then everyone became a Rua fanatic forgetting his pathetic bout with Coleman.
I see the same stuff with Carwin. Loads of early enthusiasm but when he didn’t seal the deal and slay the monster he was relegated to “one-trick pony status.”
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
Mohandas Gandhi
"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses - behind the lines, in the gym, and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights."
Muhammad Ali
"If MMA is like dog fighting, those are some pretty fucking smart dogs."
"I don’t want to lick any butt."
GSP
by jackbox on Apr 27, 2011 5:53 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Where the hell is iiowyn when you need him?
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
He may have been figured out to a degree, but Shogun and Jones are the only guys capable of implementing that gameplan. Lyoto has spoken a lot about the need to change and evolve his style now that everyone is familiar with him. I expect him to do as much. He trains with Anderson, Jose Aldo, the Nogs, Munoz and his own father and brothers. That’s a hell of a team to have behind you. I think Lyoto will come back extremely strong. He just needed to see that rounds don’t last forever, and that judges will screw up some decisions. The martial artist’s way of coping with that is to be more aggressive and finish guys before they have a chance to drag out a decision or implement their game plan. I’m still expecting plenty more greatness from Lyoto, even if I would pick Jones to beat him.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Apr 27, 2011 6:26 PM EDT reply actions
What have you seen from Jones that makes you feel that his footwork or counter-striking is good enough to implement Shogun’s gameplan?
"You should work for 15 minutes to knock your opponent out, submit him, or improve your position to give yourself the best chance of doing either." - Dan Hardy
He doesn't need them.
I’m a huge Lyoto fan, but he relies on the range he keeps to confuse opponents and turn the obvious flaws in the Shotokan stance (chin up, shoulders down, hands out) from liabilities into traps for opponents to rush into. Jones’ insane reach and willingness to throw lots of kicks and unpredictable strikes completely negates that.
I don’t think his footwork is good enough, but his stride will enable him to cut off Lyoto in a similar fashion, though possibly presenting some moments off his base where Lyoto can take advantage. But, I think his reach, speed and vastly improved accuracy will make up for it all anyway. As well as Lyoto’s desire to stay at range and not get into a clinch battle. Lyoto can probably handle Jon better than most in the clinch, but I doubt he’ll want to gamble on it. So it’s not so much Shogun’s gameplan I suppose, but his speed, reach, unpredictability and grappling, will put Lyoto in a similar position, hard-pressed to control the distance or cleanly reach Jon when opportunities present. I wouldn’t expect Jon to try to fight Lyoto like Shogun did, though, just pointing out to the post author that “figuring Lyoto out” won’t be enough for other LHW’s other than Jon.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Apr 27, 2011 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions
The question going into UFC 129 is whether or not Randy Couture — universally acknowledged as one of the best game-planners in MMA history — can apply these lessons and beat Machida.
Unfairly I might add. I love me some Randy and always will, but I gotta be real here. Being 40 years old and a greco wrester by trade and charging in guns-a-blazing at a Prime Chuck Liddell two times in a row should have forever disqualified him from being renowned as any sort of game planner. Almost all Couture fights going back to around the time he turned 40 are a mixture of clinching, boxing and takedowns in succession, keeping the opponent guessing. All of the fights he won – he was faster than his opponents while standing and wasn’t cleanly hit in the face. In the fights he lost – he got punched in the face. There isn’t any particularly great game planning involved. He is just a master at phase shifting. It doesn’t change that much fight in fight out. It works – or it doesn’t.
Contributor at Unintelligent Defense
Lead Blogger at Ninja's Place
"...just when you think you’ve produced your magnum opus, someone shows up and takes a giant shit in your mouth. In your mouth." - Anthony Pace
Don't eat B.L.T. sammaches
by Urijah Bieber on Apr 27, 2011 7:07 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
And it won't work against Machida
Even a faster, better able to absorb damage, younger Randy probably would have lost to a guy with Lyoto’s abilities, but at this point? Devastating KO is the only result one can expect from this fight.
Contributor at Unintelligent Defense
Lead Blogger at Ninja's Place
"...just when you think you’ve produced your magnum opus, someone shows up and takes a giant shit in your mouth. In your mouth." - Anthony Pace
Don't eat B.L.T. sammaches
by Urijah Bieber on Apr 27, 2011 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I sort of agree with you here. I do think that he’s a really good game planner, especially for his time, and what he did to Timmy, Gabe, and Chuck the first time. However, his game plan appears better than it really is because of his wrestling base, which often has set up the rest of his game just like GSP’s. Those same game plans would’ve tanked if he wasn’t such a prominent wrestler. If you have a good wrestling base, and know how to use it in conjunction with your other skills, you’re always going to look like a great planner because it so methodically breaks down your opponents.
IE: two great game plans, one has a muay Thai base, and the other has a wrestling base, the wrestling base has the advantage, all things being equal. Obviously it’s never that simple, but that’s how I see it.
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I have a hard time seeing this going differently than the Tito fight, except Randy is just slightly less strong than Tito was. Randy’s clinch against Vera did almost nothing except keep Vera from hitting him back. Machida’s Sumo and excellent clinch work is going to be really tough for Randy, and that’s if Randy is able to catch Machida. The thing about Machida is, when you get close, he’s really good at keeping his arms stiff and not letting you body up to him. He gets his arms straight and wiggles out of the way. He’s also really good at backing up, backing up, and then suddenly closing the distance with one of those flying knees to the kidneys. Ouch, that looked like it really hurt when he landed that thing on Tito.
I think that Randy has it figured out, but I don’t think Randy’s going to be able to execute. I’m actually predicting a 2nd round KO for Machida.
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Even if the “Machida puzzle” has been figured out, it does not mean that Randy has the tools and speed to exploit it. Randy is not that quick, and Machida has shown that he is very quick on the feet and throws untelegraphed strikes. Stylistically, I don’t feel that Randy is a good style match. Randy’s best work is in the clinch, and Machida is no slouch in the clinch as shown by the fact that most of his takedowns have come from the clinch and he has good knees in the clinch as well. Even though he lost to Rampage, look at the performance as well. Machida performed as well as he did against a top five UFC LIght Heavyweight, and arguably won the fight in many MMA fans’ eyes.
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I posted this exact thread on Sherdog after the Rampage fight...
And i think the same style is what gives Anderson problems.
Chael did exactly what Shogun and Rampage did except of course coupled it with his elite wrestling.
Chael moved forward quicky with his hands up and didn’t throw until he was up in Andy’s face, which totally took Anderson out of his counterstriking game. Good post.
I think the whole “figuring Lyoto out” is just a tad inaccurate. Not grossly, or maybe even moderately, but a tad.
The guy has overcame all kinds of obstacles in martial arts thus far, the greatest of which is arguably that he took a style that (at least in my own martial arts experience) that everyone said could “never” work at the top levels of MMA. And he took that style went straight to the top with it. I have a hard time thinking that a martial artist of this caliber is simply incapable of making adjustments to his game at this stage in his career.
I know after training for decades to develop a style it becomes difficult to change some hard learned habits, but let’s give him a chance and see if he can make good on his claims to evolve and progress. I have a hard time thinking he has went straight to the end and this is all he can do. War Lyoto, war and war again.
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