UFC Sends Request to NSAC for Video Monitors for Judges at UFC 130
by Mike Fagan on Apr 26, 2011 1:03 PM EDT
in UFC News
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There was a time when the ringside judge's seat was the best view to watch prize fighting. With the advent of multiple camera angles, HD technology, and slow-motion replay, the couch in your living room is the best seat for fight watching in 2011.
Athletic commissions have been slow to adapt to current technology. While the fan at home has the best possible view of a fight, judges cageside are still forced to ignore big screens in the arena, and make do with a single, suboptimal angle of the action.
After years of judging controversy, the UFC is taking the initiative. Ariel Helwani of MMA Fighting reports:
Marc Ratner, the UFC's Vice President of Regulatory Affairs, informed MMA Fighting that the organization has formally submitted a request to the Nevada State Athletic Commission to install monitors as a backup viewing option for the judges assigned to score the bouts at UFC 130.
"I've emailed [NSAC Executive Director] Keith [Kizer] and asked him to put the request on the next agenda. We believe these monitors will be another look to help with the judges," Ratner wrote via e-mail.
...
When MMA Fighting asked NSAC Executive Director Keith Kizer if he would be open to the idea, Kizer replied, "Maybe." He added that it was up to a promoter to formally ask for the monitors to be present."A promoter can petition (to allow judges to have personal monitors,) and we'd put it on the agenda," Kizer told MMA Fighting last week. "The UFC is well aware of the process but has chosen not to ask in the past."
It's about damn time. I'm amazed that the commissions haven't been more proactive about this themselves, but I suppose that's par for the course for bureaucracy. Hopefully the NSAC approves the UFC's request, and video monitors become a standard instrument for judges sitting cageside.
UFC 130 takes place May 28th in Las Vegas, Nevada, and features a lightweight title rematch between champion Frankie Edgar and challenger Gray Maynard. Frank Mir, Roy Nelson, Thiago Alves, and Quinton Jackson are all scheduled to appear on the card.
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Curious as to why the UFC chose not to inquire about getting monitors.
Sometimes I just want to give it all up and become a handsome billionaire.
I'm a Tweeter - http://twitter.com/Tyler_Sawyer
Because they knew monitors would be just one more distraction to Cecil. He’d be too busy trying to change the channel or watch porn on his monitor to pay attention to the fight.
"Ellismania is, along with the black President, a symbol of the future." - Mayhem Miller
Tweeter!
by alicks on Apr 26, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 9 recs
Yeah I remember watching the last Melendez fight just waiting for him to fuck it up
You could see his heart sink getting booed in the introductions. But he did his little streetfighter “start”, stopped it on time, and in the proper way (didnt lay on the guy). His ref gig seemed to have improved so maybe monitors will help hi judgely duties. Personally, I’d rather he leave the sport and never return after what he’s pulled
You know Joe, Brandon Vera is considered to be a Heavyweight George St.Pierre because he just comes, comes, and comes again... -Mike Goldberg, UFC 57
Cheick Kongo looks like a cross between Evander Holyfield and pop singer Seal!
Melvin Guilard looks like a little Kevin Randelman!
-Mike "All black people look alike to me" Goldberg, UFC 62/64
I also don’t understand why this request didn’t come any sooner if the option was always available. Let’s hope it is approved and becomes standard.
That said, new monitors won’t solve everything. I recently went to my first live mma event and was pleasantly surprised by how well I could watch the action. Lack of monitors isn’t an universal excuse for poor judging.
It does help a great deal when judging close contests, grappling heavy bouts as well
If someone has his back to a judge in one of these situations, they may not see damaging attacks land.
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!
Finally! How have they not done this before? We have had to see like 2 years of shitty decisions (not always, but you know what I mean) before they decided to do this. Hopefully this will help to resolve some of the idiotic decisions we have seen
by HeadKickOfDoom on Apr 26, 2011 1:21 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
It’s great that the UFC finally actually asked for monitors but there is no amount of monitors you can put at cage side that will make up for vague scoring criteria or poorly trained incompetent judges. This is lipstick on a pig.
by who me on Apr 26, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Agreed.
But monitors are at least a small 1/2 step measure in the right direction. A subjective scoring, where all aspects of the fight can be viewed more clearly is better than blind subjectivity.
It’s still 100% subjectivity, the only difference is that instead of them having three different angles on the fight they will end up seeing what we see the same angle. It may make the scores all agree better between judges but it won’t cause judges to score things correctly. They will still be judging on the same vague criteria that has been causing all the confusion to start with.
Getting a monitor isn’t going to make Cecil Peoples change his mind on how he thinks a bout should be scored same as getting an HDTV isn’t going to make you better at Wheel of Fortune. If you don’t get it you still won’t get it.
I agree with you, I am just playing devils advocate for discussion purposes
I know it’s a bandaid ‘solution’ at best, and I use the term solution very, very loosely. But maybe, just maybe, in some dimension of the multiverse, Mr. Peoples will be able to catch a grimmace or two as a crushing leg kick lands, and realize that what he thought before, might not possibly be exactly right.
One can hope, right?
See, I think it can make a big difference
I am optimistic that since I at home, a hardcore MMA fan can watch a fight and pick a winner, that the judges, who’s sole job is to tally up scores and announce a winner, will be able to see what I see, and not be complete idiots. Again, that is me being optimistic, since half of MMA’s judges seem the be legally blind and/or legal bound to wear a helmet at all times.
by HeadKickOfDoom on Apr 26, 2011 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I really think that this will help
call me naive but watching groundwork with a monitor can do nothing but help. I agree that there will still be ridiculous score cards but this is at least a step in the less retarded direction.
I agree, but this is still a needed addition, and a small amount of advancement shows that more is possible. Now can we get some new judges? I don’t think any scoring criteria works until you have more experienced people and a much clearer dialogue and consensus on what we value in scoring an MMA fight.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Apr 26, 2011 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
They HAVE done it before
This is my interview with Marc Ratner and George Dodd of the CSAC from September of last year.
http://www.fightersonlymagazine.co.uk/news/viewarticle.php?id=5587
FO: The use of monitors is another common suggestion. Even though we’ve only had Doc Hamilton state on one occasion that his view was obstructed in a fight (Shogun vs. Machida 1) and the arenas have the big screens overhead, it definitely wouldn’t hurt accuracy and/or consistency. Your thoughts?
MR: Actually we’ve used them for the last three [UFC] events in California. We’re still experimenting with that. I don’t want them to only look at the monitor, because that only gets you one view, but certainly when your view is obstructed they might be valuable. Whether it’s a cameraman, the ref, or a corner-post, there are several things that can obstruct the judges’ line of sight.
FO: How does that process work? Do you deal directly with Marc Ratner?
GD: Marc was very helpful with getting this done. When we went to some of these events, we looked at where the judges were sitting and, in certain areas, they didn’t have the best view because it was blocked, whether from the door or the angled areas. So I asked if there was anything we could do help the judges, and [Marc Ratner] said, “Yeah, we can do this.”
FO: And there were some of the more prominent judges working these events, correct?
GD: Yes sir. Doc Hamilton was there, Cecil Peoples was there; a lot of the normal guys here in California that do the UFC’s. They all responded very positively to using the monitors. And the good part about is that we collect the score cards after each round so there’s no chance the judges can see the slow-motion replays up on the big screen.
They can see it after they turn [their score]in, but the cards are turned in before they show the replays on the big screen in the arena so there’s no chance they can be influenced by it.
FO: What’s the path forward with this trial?
GD: We’re going to talk to other orgs and see if it’s possible. Any angle you can give the judge that gives a better view is something we want to look at.
"A philosopher and solitary by instinct, who has found his advantage in standing aside and outside, in patience, in procrastination, in staying behind; as a spirit of daring and experiment that has already lost its way once in every labyrinth of the future; as a soothsayer-bird spirit who looks back when relating what will come." -Nietzsche
by Dallas Winston on Apr 26, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Continued ....
FO: Marc Ratner stressed consistency in our discussion. Being able to consult the same secondary angle on the monitors seems like it would facilitate more consistent rulings. Did any of the judges mention this from their experience with monitors?
GD: No, I think it’s a comfort level when they’re scoring the fight. The judges felt more comfortable being able to see all the angles. When you’re on the back-side of the action you can’t see everything clearly, so you can’t tell how close someone is to getting submitted.
Now, throw some of the common obstacles in there, and it’s really hard to see if a guy is just riding the back or if he’s close with a submisison attempt. They were much more comfortable that they weren’t missing anything.
FO: I’ve always thought that cost to the athletic commissions was a big issue with monitors. Is the price tag for this technology a concern at all?
GD: I don’t know, because it’s not our cost — it’s a cost for the promotion. All it is is a current feed from their existing production. It’s tapped into their feed already, so the cost should be pretty minimal for promotions that are already broadcasting live, like Strikeforce, the UFC, and King of the Cage.
FO: I have to pass along my respect and appreciation for making something like this happen. It’s almost uplifting. I know I’m not alone when I say that much of the frustration with MMA judging is that it seems like no attempts for improvement are even being considered, much less put into place.
GD: No matter what commission you work for, any time you can make sure the judges can see and are able to capably score the fight is a good accomplishment. If that doesn’t happen, we are actually taking away from the judges ability to score and doing a disservice to the fans and competitors.
FO: Amen. Before I let you go, is there anything else on the horizon to improve judging?
GD: We’re also looking to start testing the 1/2 Point System in amateur fights in California. The problem is that we’re dealing with government laws and rules, which are not easy to change. We will continue to look for any avenue that may provide a better judging environment for the sport of mixed martial arts.
Dallas Winston
"A philosopher and solitary by instinct, who has found his advantage in standing aside and outside, in patience, in procrastination, in staying behind; as a spirit of daring and experiment that has already lost its way once in every labyrinth of the future; as a soothsayer-bird spirit who looks back when relating what will come." -Nietzsche
by Dallas Winston on Apr 26, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Thanks for noticing!
I remember I thought that breaking that story was going to be a huge piece of exciting news that really put me on the map! I mean … judges FINALLY using monitors!
I published the story, and it was all crickets.
:)
"A philosopher and solitary by instinct, who has found his advantage in standing aside and outside, in patience, in procrastination, in staying behind; as a spirit of daring and experiment that has already lost its way once in every labyrinth of the future; as a soothsayer-bird spirit who looks back when relating what will come." -Nietzsche
by Dallas Winston on Apr 26, 2011 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
are there any states (or I guess reservation territories) in which commissions do currently allow the use of monitors? It’d be interesting to see if it has had any impact on the quality of decisions.
Getting bent out of shape over a fight promoter lying is like getting upset that a hooker won't kiss you. It betrays a deep lack of understanding of the nature of the profession.
It’s good to see the UFC doing all it can to aid the judges and this will help. In the most confounding judging decisions though where everyone present and watching at home is wondering what the heck the judges were thinking..I’m not sure monitors will help. It’s the judges themselves that are the problem. This won’t be an instant solution.
Finally!
I hope this gets approved and spreads to other events and other states. It’s very much needed.
I think this is great news, but I have reservations about two things:
1. I assume and hope that the monitors will be video only and not include commentary
2. Even if the monitors are video-only, showing between-round replays could heavily sway the judges’ decisions, so hopefully they’d be shut off in between rounds
by Jeffigatame on Apr 26, 2011 2:21 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
1. No commentary.
2. No replays, just a live video feed.
And to the poster below, they score the fights round by round but they write down the score for each round on one piece of paper after the round ends. I don’t think they “hand in” their cards between rounds, but I am unclear as to the protocol on that.
Since the scores for each round are written down on one piece of paper, unless somebody else needed to look at them during the fight (? no idea who), wouldn’t they would keep the paper tally until the end of the fight when the scores are read?
From the CSAC interview above:
Yes sir. Doc Hamilton was there, Cecil Peoples was there; a lot of the normal guys here in California that do the UFC’s. They all responded very positively to using the monitors. And the good part about is that we collect the score cards after each round so there’s no chance the judges can see the slow-motion replays up on the big screen.
They can see it after they turn [their score]in, but the cards are turned in before they show the replays on the big screen in the arena so there’s no chance they can be influenced by it.
That’s all great to hear. Thanks everyone for the replies. Hopefully this gets approved and becomes standard.
by Jeffigatame on Apr 26, 2011 6:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Does the UFC have to leave it up to the NSAC to install them?
Why couldn’t the UFC provide them at its own cost, and the NSAC simply approve the judges using them? It would be a no-brainer (you would hope) that they would say yes, rather than just leave them unused.
why do u use a picture of a really close fight, i think a leanord garcia decision photo is more applicable
Agreed
I’m completely OK with that draw (though I personally gave Maynard the fifth when I first watched it) and don’t know how monitors would have changed anything.
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by Derek Suboticki on Apr 26, 2011 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
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