UFC 134: Forrest Griffin Is the Underdog to Shogun Rua
by Nick Thomas on Apr 24, 2011 11:33 PM EDT
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The odds opened up this week at:
Forrest Griffin +160 vs. Mauricio "Shogun" Rua -195
Forrest Griffin (18-6) [Num. 6]
Win Rich Franklin - Decision (Unanimous) UFC 126
Win Tito Ortiz - Decision (Split) UFC 106
Loss Anderson Silva - KO (Punch) UFC 101
Mauricio "Shogun" Rua (19-5) [Num. 2]
Loss Jon Jones - TKO (Punches and Knees) UFC 128
Win Lyoto Machida - KO (Punches) UFC 113
Loss Lyoto Machida - Decision (Unanimous) UFC 104
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Forrest takes this home IMO… Shogun has just had too many injuries, and Forrest is too big, and his cardio too good, for Shogun to win this…
I do feel that I will def be in the minority here, but I would think Forrest should be a moderate favorite here…
Agreed
Shogun could come back strong, but he would most likely blow a knee again. Then another long lay off, such a shame because Rua at 100% would clown on Jones.
Shields > Gsp
Jones would still beat him
Just not as brutally
Let the fighters fight, let the referees ref, but dear God, don't let the judges judge.
by halitosis on Apr 25, 2011 12:06 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i really dont know how anyone can think that
shogun had absolutely nothing for jones in that fight
maybe he can make it closer, but at this stage of the game its silly to think any fighter can clown on jones. i can see him getting stunned and ko’d gsp style or taken into deep water where he folds, but i dont think theres a fighter alive who can come out and shut jonny bones down for 25 minutes
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
maybe he can make it closer, but at this stage of the game its silly to think any fighter can clown on jones.
I think it’s silly to say that. Remember when people were talking about Machida fighting Fedor and Lesnar because no one at 205 could touch him.
Food goes in here.
noones ever clowned on machida
hes been pushed to deep water and stunned, those are the only ways hes lost fights
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
The way Machida was clowning people, he deserved all of that hype… I mean he was untouchable, already had beaten Bonnar/Franklin/Penn, and just went on a rampage destroying Sokodojou , who was still somewhat relevant at the time, KO Thiago Silva, Rashad Evans, and made still a somewhat relevant Tito Ortiz look terrible…
Machida was a monster on his way up… I think we were just unaware of the issues that Shotokan Karate has…
by p123 on Apr 25, 2011 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed, It was just figuring out his style that is all.
Jules: Normally, both your asses would be dead as fucking fried chicken, but you happen to pull this shit while I'm in a transitional period so I don't wanna kill you, I wanna help you. But I can't give you this case, it don't belong to me. Besides, I've already been through too much shit this morning over this case to hand it over to your dumb ass.
He still is pretty much untouchable,
the only strikes Rampage landed on Lyoto were a few pitter patter clinch knees. He just needs to attack more.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 25, 2011 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Well to be fair
He had just come of off his first ko lost, so he was gun shy for two rounds. Once he got comfortable he tore Page a new one. Machida should DESTROY randy and retire his ass.
Jules: Normally, both your asses would be dead as fucking fried chicken, but you happen to pull this shit while I'm in a transitional period so I don't wanna kill you, I wanna help you. But I can't give you this case, it don't belong to me. Besides, I've already been through too much shit this morning over this case to hand it over to your dumb ass.
that decision was an abortion.
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 25, 2011 1:20 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, it was bunk.
The only good strikes that were landed the entire fight were the series of low kicks Machida landed in the opening frame, and Lyoto’s 3’rd round flurry on Rampage. Plus, if you consider takedowns, “dominant” positions, and submission attempts to be something that should score points, then that last round was arguably a 10-8 for Machida.
And this is coming from a BIG Rampage fan, I was cheering for him the whole fight.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 25, 2011 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Sadly
Aggression wins strikes. Which is fucking bullshit for your Machida and Kampman type fights who are less aggressive but nail you everytime with shots.
Jules: Normally, both your asses would be dead as fucking fried chicken, but you happen to pull this shit while I'm in a transitional period so I don't wanna kill you, I wanna help you. But I can't give you this case, it don't belong to me. Besides, I've already been through too much shit this morning over this case to hand it over to your dumb ass.
See, the problem there is
constantly pressing forward =/= “effective aggression”. If it was, then Matt Riddle would’ve beat Sean Pierson based on his aggressive walking forward, shadow boxing performance.
To me, effective aggression is attacking frequently and when the time is right, engaging often, and staying active.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 25, 2011 3:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Being a fan of a fighter actually makes you expect more from him, your evaluation of his performance devaluates as your fandom wasn’t satisfied. It happens to me all the time.
I was fine with the decision as neither fighter showed any form of dominance in fight.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
But I won’t pick against Jon Jones again until I see him lose. - Kwisatz Haderach
It was pretty uneventful overall,
but I thought that Machida edged the 1’st round, Rampage edged the 2’nd round, and Machida sealed the deal with the flurry.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 25, 2011 3:01 AM EDT up reply actions
5 rounds for main events.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
But I won’t pick against Jon Jones again until I see him lose. - Kwisatz Haderach
Amen brother.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 25, 2011 3:22 AM EDT up reply actions
even rampage thought the decision was total bs, wich actually, if possible, made me like him even more.
by the guy with the big nose on Apr 25, 2011 5:35 AM EDT up reply actions
It's weird,
Page has said that the other guy should’ve won in a close decision 3 times in his career- against Ninja, Forrest, and Machida. I think after the Forrest and Lyoto fights he redacted his statement after watching the fight. Funny guy.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 25, 2011 6:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I think in the Machida fight he might have felt he lost the fight before realizing he won at the sport of MMA point fighting under the URs.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 25, 2011 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
this times a zillion.
never a big Machida fan (Shogun mark) but he was in a way, just as deserving of the hype storm he got, as Bones is now. just different styles.
thats why Shogun/Machida I killed me… cuz I worried that Shogun (or anyone) wouldnt be able to take 3 rds from Machida again (I had shogun 49-46 but again, Shogun mark).
luckily I was wrong.
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
Proud BElitest.
by MMArazorback on Apr 25, 2011 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions
When he tore through Rashad and Thiago, two guys that were elite before and after their respective fights, it was hard to not have a serious man-crush on Machida. But I was never absolutely sure that Machida would beat Shogun, Shogun’s toughness and timing would give anyone fits…except for you know who.
my band
http://www.groggybikini.com
Have you seen Jones take a solid hit?
Once he proves to have a good chin, I would admit that nobody could come close to beating him. But we dont know yet how strong his chin is, Lyoto might be the one to test it, or a 100% Shogun.
Shields > Gsp
I would not say that Rua clowns Jones, but if you tell me that Shogun is gonna be 100% healthy and ready to go for the Rio event, I would tell you that line is a gift. A fit Shogun mauls Griffin IMO. Unfortunately, there are too many thing to set up a betting line (past bouts, injuries, current status…)
by Carlos Estrada-Ibars Martínez on Apr 25, 2011 6:28 AM EDT up reply actions
stop it
just stop
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 25, 2011 6:44 AM EDT up reply actions
LOL
Cocaine is a hell of a drug.
by High Knee Destroyer on Apr 25, 2011 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions
You say that like its a bad thing…
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 25, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
was gonna come in to same the exact same thing
its funny how if this fight was announced two months ago, everyone here would be all over shogun
i think people jumped off the forrest bandwagon way too fast after the silva loss, hes a tough sob who can take it to just about everyone
i think he comes at shogun and sets a pace that may just be too much for the brazilian. shoguns coming off a demoralizing loss, if he starts feeling tired after the first bell, he may just start to question his cardio and abilitities giving forrest the edge
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
If Forrest came to fight Silva with a gameplan, he would have a great chance to win… Picture Forrest executing the gameplan he used against Franklin, except of Silva… That’s a wildy different fight…
i really dont think he has the tools to beat anderson
he beat franklin by outmuscling him and simply slowing the fight down. i dont think he has the takedowns to beat anderson and i think andersons speed is still way too much for him
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
Bro,
Rich Franklin is not Anderson Silva.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
by RolloTomasi on Apr 25, 2011 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Of course not, Rich Franklin IMO is a much much better scrambler than Anderson IMO… I never said that Forrest would win, but I said it would be wildly different…
Forrest got sucked into the " Let’s showcase our P4P fighter’s strength " against a company man who is always trying to please the fans…
If Forrest came out, desperate for the takedown, that match becomes much much more interesting…Forrest had no business striking with Silva at all, hell no one really does…
agreed
Silva started clowning forrest and forrest let his ego lead him into The Spiders web.
You gotta figure profighters aren’t use to someone being able to go all Jedi on them.
If forrest would have changed levels on Anderson and taken it to the ground (repeatedly) there is a strong chance Forrest could have got the sub or the dec.
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 25, 2011 12:34 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That’s exactly what I mean gentleway… Imagine Forrest fighting hard for takedowns for three rounds with that amazing cardio of his. And Forrest having the same size, er, small size advantage… That would wear the Spider out for sure…
Still would have Spider the favorite today, even knowing that Forrest planned on using that gamplan, but I just don’t think that Spider takes that 10/10. That’s for sure…
forrest might take one.
Anderson is still the P4P greatest of all time, but he’s human.
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 25, 2011 12:53 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I guess its funny???
When Gsp is getting beat he taps.
When Bj is down he breaks a little bit mentally.
When Anderson is down 4.8 rds. To 0 with a broken rib, what does he do? He digs deep, tosses up a triangle,Chokes a motherFucker out, puts his gi and belt on and listens to bruce buffer say " And still middle weight champion of the world Anderson SILL-LLL-V-V-VA".
That sir is the difference between “one of the greatest” and “THE GREATEST” .
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 25, 2011 10:19 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I just can't see it.
For all of Griffin’s strengths, and despite my longstanding view that a high level MMA Wrestler was the one needed to beat current Anderson, I certainly don’t consider him to be one. I think even Anderson’s diminished TDD should suffice against Forrest…
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 25, 2011 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Forrest is indeed no high level wrestlers, but Silva, like all brazilians with a weakness in wrestling, probably trains his TDD against a double leg, same case with Lil Nog. Forrest uses trips and just overpowering body mass to drag his opponents to the ground. Wouldn’t favor him over Silva, but when he commits to a gameplan…..it MIGHT become interesting.
by Thomas Benjamin on Apr 25, 2011 3:59 AM EDT up reply actions
True, I just have a hard time seeing a guy with an elite fight IQ like Anderson letting the far slower Griffin implement a strategy like that. Then again, Griffin, like Shields, has made a career out of things like that…
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 25, 2011 4:03 AM EDT up reply actions
1 out of 10
That’s a 90% fail rate. Let’s not act like we’re saying its a lock.
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 25, 2011 10:33 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Makes sense…
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 25, 2011 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
yea i'm shocked by the forrest love
i guess all the shogun fans are still in hiding
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
Could be… Or it could be that Shogun’s injuries are in people’s minds, and that Forrest is just so big, and has such good cardio…
I used to look at Forrest as the Frank Mir of the division, but Forrest has that tremendous size advantage, and if he keeps using his legnth properly, he will be a problem for anyone. Forrest must not brawl though, he is not a high level brawler, even though thats what made him famous…
That
And the fact that after two wins, people are starting to see that Forrest just might not be ’’done’’ yet. The victories weren’t massively impressive, but Franklin is legit and Forrest took a clear cut decision. I think the Silva fight learned him a lesson, which is why this matchup intrigues me. We know Forrest is gonna come in shape, but Shogun’s still the much better striker. It’s gonna be close.
by Thomas Benjamin on Apr 25, 2011 4:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I think it might have been more
The counter game plan of…
Well rewatch the first 3 seconds of the Shogun/Jones fight. Shogun comes forward, throws a un-committed overhand right, exactly at the moment that Jones is launching a flying knee.
Shogun’s right hand is mid-flight and he eats the crushing knee flush on his jaw and face.
Jones uncharacteristically for such a young fighter, never lets shogun recover (while also listening to his corner on how not to gas himself out), picks his shots carefully, even while flurrying.
Had Shogun been a split second earlier, and thrown his overhand with conviction, we might have been looking at a repeat of Fedor/Arlovski. Instead, we got what really happend.
by hardlyworking on Apr 25, 2011 6:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Looking forward to this fight. If Rua has his conditioning in check and can stay off his back he can win. But I wouldn’t be all the way shocked if Griffin took the UD.
Are our bones not dust?
Is our Blood not Poison?
On my knees in the black light
Praying for Salvation, bitter Redemption
So throw your dice and cast your shadow
You may look away
But your children will not...
by ProfessorBLove on Apr 24, 2011 11:38 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I think Forrest has gotten a lot better
The Franklin fight is the first time I’ve seen him stick to a non-brawling gameplan for an entire fight.
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
by SSreporters on Apr 24, 2011 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve been thinkng that Forrest has been looking really good lately man… Not even because of opponent, but everything, his technique and all, is very solid. We know he’s a gym rat, he must be improving and he is one of the biggest LHWs… Forrest is a sleeper in the division right now IMO…
I always thought of Forrest to be sloppy technically on the feet
But he did very well against Franklin and rocked him with that right hand.
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
by SSreporters on Apr 24, 2011 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions
i agree. The franklin fight Forrest looked great.
It was Forrest 2.0
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 24, 2011 11:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I was just a bit disapointed in Forest still feeling that need to brawl… During several exchanges, Forrest would give up his reach in exchange to slug it out… The fight was a huge plus as in he didn’t do it often, but Forrest is a guy with little power, a size advantage over nearly everyone, and the length to take advantage of an outside game… If he starts coming in with good gameplans, I think he is very very relevant….
A man that big, who knows how to use it, is just a dangerous fighter. Period…
Very true
When he came in swinging against franklin, Rich was getting the better of them, but when he used his reach he could just pepper him.
by Thomas Benjamin on Apr 25, 2011 4:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I agree.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 24, 2011 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Why should Forrest be a favorite?
Shogun will be healthy, KO Forrest en route to rightfully dominating Jon Jones like we all said he would.
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
Sorry bub, the Shogun dominating Jones fantasy flew out the window the second Shogun tapped… Those days are over man…
No but really!
IF he’s healthy he has world class BJJ and he’ll yank Jones’ arm and make him scream in pain. It’ll be a victory for him and every person Jones has inflicted an illegal strike upon!
- - Note I picked Shogun to dominate Jones but I saw the light!
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
by SSreporters on Apr 24, 2011 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
you drunk?
"A blowjob is like a stacked card. You can't guarantee it will deliver, but people will come regardless."
by Hendo_One-Shot on Apr 24, 2011 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
No I'm pissed because Vancouver lost
But I’m just having a ball with the Shogun talk post-Jones.
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
by SSreporters on Apr 24, 2011 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Fuckin Luongo
"Every time I talk on the phone with someone who doesn’t know me, they call me "ma’am"." - Scott C. Broussard
by Earl Montclair on Apr 25, 2011 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Hey man I can't blame Luongo
why the hell did AV start Schneider? Puck handling dumbassery = 2 goals conceded.
Refs didn’t help much either.
I am going to kill Vigneault if we lose on Tuesday. I have a bet going and it could cost me.
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
by SSreporters on Apr 25, 2011 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I blame Luongo for giving up all the goals in games 4 and 5
Seriously they are shitting the bed on an epic level right now.
"Every time I talk on the phone with someone who doesn’t know me, they call me "ma’am"." - Scott C. Broussard
by Earl Montclair on Apr 25, 2011 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Game 4 was terrible
Game 5 I can’t really blame him as he got bombarded.
They all need to be taken to a barn and shot. Sedins are playing like absolute pussies whenever they’re called upon to actually defend.
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
by SSreporters on Apr 25, 2011 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
It makes me even happier to own my Antti Niemi Blackhawks jersey…..but he is on a nice streak of shit outings himself
"Every time I talk on the phone with someone who doesn’t know me, they call me "ma’am"." - Scott C. Broussard
by Earl Montclair on Apr 25, 2011 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m a Hawks fan, but I’ll give you guys this: The Canucks absolutely owned the last thirty minutes of that game (after Frolik’s penalty shot up until the OT winner.) But they couldn’t get anything past Crawford. I’d be surprised if Vancouver lost on Tuesday.
"Rather than love, than money, than faith, than fame, than fairness... give me truth."
Chris McCandless A.K.A. Alexander Supertramp
1968-1992
I am pretty new to hockey. My girl loves it
But I got the Niemi jersey because I was blown away by his performance in the playoffs last year. I almost don’t even want to watch game 7….I feel like puking just thinking about it.
"Every time I talk on the phone with someone who doesn’t know me, they call me "ma’am"." - Scott C. Broussard
by Earl Montclair on Apr 25, 2011 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Okay, just to clarify, are you a Hawks or Nucks fan?
"Rather than love, than money, than faith, than fame, than fairness... give me truth."
Chris McCandless A.K.A. Alexander Supertramp
1968-1992
canucks
"Every time I talk on the phone with someone who doesn’t know me, they call me "ma’am"." - Scott C. Broussard
by Earl Montclair on Apr 25, 2011 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Even the Shogun from the two Machida fights is not going to win against Jones IMO… I think top shape Shogun is obviously a huge threat to everyone in the division, but I think Forrest / Jones/ Rampage match up well against even the best Shogun…
Forrest/Jones just based on sheer length and size cause issues, and Page with his techinical counter boxing could be nighty night for any version of Shogun, although I would think Shogun is probably going to berserker Page again… Even so, skillset wise, I think those 3 give Shogun the most problems…..
On second thought
I thought Forrest would get killed by Jones before the Bader and Franklin fights at 126. If Forrest can beat Shogun again convincingly I think he should get the next shot.
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
by SSreporters on Apr 25, 2011 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions
You beat me to the punch. I’ve been meaning to say that. Damn ninjas. Forrest whole I never want to fight him POV, might just be humor, I would hope…Lol…
But Forrest has a decent chance against Jones just based on his sheer size… You need size to beat Jones IMO, and I think Forrest is probably more skilled in nearly every area except wrestling…
The hellbows will still be coming, but at least Forrest is big enough to manage a little something at least?
And yea, a win over the former champ, and being a former champ, and not losing as of recent will def be big…
Shogun was apparently healthy when he fought Jones...
Unless there have been some post-fight revelations from Shogun’s camp about the knee not healing properly.
Now, post-Jones, did Shogun have MORE injuries to heal from? Ribs maybe?
I would normally think Shogun should own Forrest but on reflection, with his old injuries, potentially new ones inflicted by Jones, probably reduced confidence after getting smashed badly… this should be a closer fight than expected. I’ll go 55/45 Shogun advantage. Way to sit on the fence, huh?
Forrest is gonna piss off all of Brazil. Again.
"Every time I talk on the phone with someone who doesn’t know me, they call me "ma’am"." - Scott C. Broussard
by Earl Montclair on Apr 24, 2011 11:39 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
if we're right.
and Shogun gets dominated by a much bigger guy again… Hopefully he tries working extensively on cardio, and maybe even think about dropping down to MW. Doing all that cardio to lose weight would be great for his gas tank I think.
by Anton Tabuena on Apr 24, 2011 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Rich Franklin is looking to defend his Franklinweight crown anyways
"Every time I talk on the phone with someone who doesn’t know me, they call me "ma’am"." - Scott C. Broussard
by Earl Montclair on Apr 24, 2011 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Vitor has that belt now.
And actually, Vitor vs. Shogun is a really cool fight.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Apr 25, 2011 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
OH shit
forgot about Vitor…… I think Shogun wins that but it would be pretty cool!
"Every time I talk on the phone with someone who doesn’t know me, they call me "ma’am"." - Scott C. Broussard
by Earl Montclair on Apr 25, 2011 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes! I want!!! I’ll take Shogun for sure, but that’s a fun fight.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Apr 25, 2011 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions
All these natural 195'ers...
Should just keep insisting on fighting each other at 195. Once we’ve got Franklin, Vitor, Shogun, Rashad, Machida, all contesting each other at 195 on a regular basis, Dana will have to implement a belt at that weight class… to be named for the inaugural champ. i.e. Shogunweight, Sugarweight, Dragonweight, Franklinweight, Belfortweight
Machida is fine at 205
He has schooled too many 205’ers to be even considered too small
The Dragon will be back!!
by elmojo on Apr 25, 2011 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
awesomeweight.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
But I won’t pick against Jon Jones again until I see him lose. - Kwisatz Haderach
Limboweight?
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Apr 25, 2011 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, this would become another belt for Anderson to carry off into the sunset. The former UFC middleweight and limboweight champion of the world.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Apr 25, 2011 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know if Shogun can make 185. He does not have much muscle on him, and he doesn’t seem like the cutting type… He would legit have to cut 15 – 20 lbs I would think… Perhaps Shogun can lean out a bit more, he does seem to hold a bit of fat on him, but still , I don’t know, I can’t see Shogun even attempting to cut 10+ pounds…
wether he can make 185 or not, either way,
I just want him to do more strength and conditioning workouts, be leaner, stronger, and get a better gas tank on whatever weight class.
by Anton Tabuena on Apr 24, 2011 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed. Shogun is one of those rare talents. He is in a Ken Griffey Jr like state nowadays IMO… I don’t see Shogun making too great of a comeback nowadays, but that’s just me… Those knees are beaten the hell up, hard to recover from that… A real shame…
Thats a good comparison.
Im a big fan of Shogun and Jr. but injuries have stolen PRIME years off of both of their careers. So sad IMO.
Had Griffey stayed healthy, Barry Bonds would be just another Conseco now.
Had Rua stayed healthy… Well… He’d have made a lot more money to lose the title to Jones last month.
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
Proud BElitest.
by MMArazorback on Apr 25, 2011 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I think he could.
It would be a tough cut, but Shogun could make the weight.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 24, 2011 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I doubt it would be THAT tough
He is always a little doughy. He wont have to get wheeled to the scale on a gurney like James Irvin.
"Every time I talk on the phone with someone who doesn’t know me, they call me "ma’am"." - Scott C. Broussard
by Earl Montclair on Apr 24, 2011 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
No muscle though… I think the bigger the guy, the easier to cut. Muscle makes weight cutting easy IMO, but Im not 100% educated in it, so it would be nice to hear a good rebuttal to that..
I don't have a good rebuttal
just the stupid ones I normally bring to the table.
"Every time I talk on the phone with someone who doesn’t know me, they call me "ma’am"." - Scott C. Broussard
by Earl Montclair on Apr 25, 2011 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s interesting really. But I feel generally, muscle types make better cuts than non muscle types…
I’ve been trying to get my weight cutting info down, but it is somewhat secretive and not really a popular topic IMO….
But the actual science behind it, is quite interesting , just time consuming…
Did you watch Krystofsxzszs's weight cutting video blog?
shit is crazy.
"Every time I talk on the phone with someone who doesn’t know me, they call me "ma’am"." - Scott C. Broussard
by Earl Montclair on Apr 25, 2011 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
I’ve been trying to get my weight cutting info down, but it is somewhat secretive and not really a popular topic IMO….But the actual science behind it, is quite interesting , just time consuming…
You are exactly right – even at the highest levels of athlete there is a significant amount of ignorance, misinformation and disinformation. Funny thing is, like true strength gaining methods are to the average athlete, so much of it is counter-intuitive to those with a solid working knowledge of physiology.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 25, 2011 3:42 AM EDT up reply actions
where could i find a good strength training guide?
Books or videos would help.
Where is lays out exercise,reps and sets. Suppliments, which do you recomend?
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 25, 2011 11:00 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
* where it
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 25, 2011 11:01 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
What sort of strength or other weight training have you been doing already, and how experienced would you consider yourself at it?
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 25, 2011 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
And what are your goals for your strength training, is there anything specific you are training for?
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 25, 2011 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
not super expirenced. i just do the normal weight training 5 days a week (when i am not injured).
I would like to have strength and endurance.
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 25, 2011 11:15 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
goals
BJJ,wrestling and Muay Thai.
Also I would like a bigger chest. I am lanky 6’3. And 3/4 , 195 lbs 15% body fat. I do martial arts 5 days a week for 2.5 hrs. A day at least. I also run.
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 25, 2011 11:23 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Unfortunately there really is no "one-size-fits-all" plan, despite what so many people put out, but to my way of thinking everything is so individual-specific based on where you are now in overall fitness, your age, your goals and your time and money constraints. I am as far from a "there is only 1 right way" guy as there can be, but there are certain elements that have been proven to work almost across the board, and almost everything I do or teach in strength training these days is rooted one way or another in the so-called Westside Method.
In your weight training, as in BJJ I imagine, proper form and technique are far more important early on than how much weight you have on the bar. Focus on compound exercise (that use more than one joint) as there is little benefit to most isolation techniques for non-bodybuilders. If you have been doing "normal weight training" for some time, the closest thing I can offer to what it sounds like you are wanting in terms of a program is to check out Joe DeFranco’s "Westside for Skinny Bastards". Joe works with elite level professional and college athletes across many sports, and his is a variant which focuses entirely on athletes’ needs rather than the powerlifters that the "pure" Westside Method is intended for.
I would avoid Olympic style movements unless you are both an experienced lifter and have someone who really knows what they are doing to watch for slight flaws in your technique.
For what you are wanting, if it were me, in the beginning, I honestly would add the Rushfit program (I can almost hear TheFilt laughing from here) because of the MMA and grappling angle to much of it (fwiw, I bought it for my college daughter, fighting the "freshman 15" while living in a dorm with no realistic way to work trips to a gym into her schedule right now).
For the type of endurance you need, unless you just really enjoy it, I would ditch the distance running in favor of sprint interval training, where you do 4-6 sets of 30 seconds each of sprinting. Rotate every three weeks between flat running sprints, uphill running sprints, downhill running sprints and flat, uphill and downhill cycling sprints as well (so 6 different versions rotated 3 weeks at a time). Rest 3 minutes between sprints (might need 4 minutes the first few weeks). Although there are far more intense ways to go about it, for what I think you are wanting, this will do far more for your MMA-type endurance than any amount of regular running ever would.
Something you can add to your daily stretching and warm up routines is the use of Indian clubs (some people call then maces). They are great for enhancing shoulder strength and flexibility as well as grip strength.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 25, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
thank you
I really appreciate it.
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 25, 2011 4:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No problem, too many variables to be more specific, but for an athlete (you are a BJJ instructor iirc), DeFranco has some outstanding programs, many of which he shares the basics of for free.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 25, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
No, you are correct
Higher lean mass = ability to cut greater amounts of weight.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 25, 2011 3:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Tough as in
hard for him to develop strict dietary habits, hard for him to cut more water weight than he’s used to (not sure if he cuts any these days). Not so tough that he would have to rehydrate with IV’s and be completely drained.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 25, 2011 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I am not aware of any of the high level Brazilian-based/trained guys who use true scientific weight cutting techniques. They might sweat out 5-8 pounds in the sauna, but not the true dehydration/rehydration techniques that let guys come into the cage 10% – 15% heavier than their weigh-in weight 24 or so hours before.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 25, 2011 3:44 AM EDT up reply actions
That's a good point.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 25, 2011 3:52 AM EDT up reply actions
He needs a strict diet and conditioning schedule
and he’ll make 185 without much trouble.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
agreed
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 25, 2011 12:18 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well,
I don’t think everyone understands that it is pretty tough to diet the way these guys do. I went on a super strict diet a few years ago and lost 60 lbs, and once I was in the groove of things it wasn’t tough, but changing your bad habits and staying diligent/ resisting temptation is really fucking hard.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 25, 2011 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I've done it and I'm not getting paid or a professional athlete.
It seriously wouldn’t be too hard for him to ease back on fatty meats, cheese, sugars, and excess carbs to become a leaner fighter. Given that he barely dehydrates as is, losing that pudge will not only be less weight to carry but won’t store excess water weight, making his dehydration even more effective. It would be pretty minimal, and he’s be the heaviest hitter at 185. Shit, he’s one of the hardest hitting 205ers anyways. And imagine him with a size advantage in the clinch. Deadly.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Oh, I definitely think 185 is his optimal weight division.
I’m just saying that it’s not as easy as some people are suggesting. I think it is Rua’s best option, though.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 25, 2011 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
A professional athlete should be able to lock his diet down for 3 months without issue. I’ve always thought Rua’s physique could be more lean, he only cuts a couple of kilo’s max. He has a good frame too but not excessive amounts of muscle so he could easily be a huge 185’er and shouldnt ever be at the mercy of fighting guys whom are too big and long for him.
Hell, A.Silva and JJones both cut and diet down way more to fight in there weight classes than Rua would need to do to fight @ 185….
A burning passion from a burning mass reaches up for the sky
by Shoguns Hairy Forearms. on Apr 25, 2011 4:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Hey bud,
hate to say this… but if Shogun wants to cut as much weight as possible, he’s gonna have to shave all superfluous hair. Meaning the forearms (and unibrow) have to go.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 25, 2011 5:28 AM EDT up reply actions
ha ha, well he shaves most of his head
sure he could just go a little more wild with the razor on weigh-in day!
A burning passion from a burning mass reaches up for the sky
by Shoguns Hairy Forearms. on Apr 25, 2011 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions
if we’re right.
nope. you are wrong buddy.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
But I won’t pick against Jon Jones again until I see him lose. - Kwisatz Haderach
About what, specifically?
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 25, 2011 3:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Forrest FTW
Shogun has had trouble with wrestlers, Coleman, Forrest, Jones.
Forrest also has incredible size and cardio, he is a hard worker and a motivated forrest can atleast go for a championship run.
Thats his only problem, is he motivated? I believe he is
If I were Forrest and I saw this line
I’d be motivated as hell to shut naysayers off. My mind would be “I took this guy the last time and gamblers still have no respect??”.
So let me get this straight: the WWE has gone from the powerful "Austin 3:16" to the dominant and iconic "Can you smell what the Rock is cooking?" all the way to... (cue baby voice) "You can't see me." Oh, believe me, we all can see you. A blind-folded, sleeping, stuck in the basement, Stevie Wonder can see your monkey ass. - The Rock
It's not a big betting line
+160 isn’t far from even money.
Couture is at +250 and Shields is at +325. Those are guys the oddsmakers are praying someone will bet on. Griffin’s not getting disrespected. I think they’re just setting an early line to see which way the betting line wind blows. If Griffin fans start betting, the line might move toward +100, or even money, which might well be an accurate forecast.
by Scabby Knuckle on Apr 25, 2011 2:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Forrest....?? the gym rat?
Has motivation problems? Yea….. that makes sense.
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 25, 2011 12:00 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
theres gonna come a stage where forrest doesnt feel the motivation anymore
its certainly not now though, and i doubt we see him enter the octagon like that, the guys too much of a gamer
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
when he was doing his book tour
he was definitely not interested in going for another championship run, he even said he does not want to have anything to do with jon jones.
so yeah, those are motivational issues.
forrest says shit like that all the time.
He said shogun was a better fighter than he was too. Its what forrest does.
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 25, 2011 12:58 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
People like Forrest because he rolls the dice...
He gets in there and takes risks and sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesn’t. I actually felt he got a little unlucky against Rashad then got smashed. It could easily have been him KO’ing Rashad and then subsequent careers for both would have looked possibly very different, based on following matchups, opportunities, impact on confidence, etc. I think in fighting, as with many other individual sports, skills and conditioning are crucial, but the mental game, heavily impacted by confidence, is even more important.
What I mean to conclude is...
With Forrest being a guy who takes risks, he increases his chance of beating a better fighter (e.g. Shogun) and also increases his chance of losing to a worse fighter (I thought he was beating Rashad fairly solidly until he got unlucky). At the time Forrest fought Rashad, I thought Forrest was a little better overall (taking into account all aspects like strength, skills, cardio, etc).
thsi all depends on which Shogun shows up the one that fought Machida and Lidell or the one that fought Jones, and Coleman
by darkotto23 on Apr 25, 2011 12:00 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
am I the only one getting tired of this “Which Shogun”, “Which BJ” talk?
So let me get this straight: the WWE has gone from the powerful "Austin 3:16" to the dominant and iconic "Can you smell what the Rock is cooking?" all the way to... (cue baby voice) "You can't see me." Oh, believe me, we all can see you. A blind-folded, sleeping, stuck in the basement, Stevie Wonder can see your monkey ass. - The Rock
by Rod Mapada on Apr 25, 2011 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Everyone is tired of it. If we got the real BJ and the real Shogun every time, the world would be a better place. If your implying that there are not different versions of each fighter, than you are flat out wrong. It sucks that there are different versions, but it’s just the way it is…
by p123 on Apr 25, 2011 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Sad but true.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
by RolloTomasi on Apr 25, 2011 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions
It's just frustrating
Because you have to defeat both versions to prove you’re better than the other fighter. It’s like if you were Ryu, you’d have to defeat both Zangiefs.
So let me get this straight: the WWE has gone from the powerful "Austin 3:16" to the dominant and iconic "Can you smell what the Rock is cooking?" all the way to... (cue baby voice) "You can't see me." Oh, believe me, we all can see you. A blind-folded, sleeping, stuck in the basement, Stevie Wonder can see your monkey ass. - The Rock
by Rod Mapada on Apr 25, 2011 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
The first Zangief has better cardio
"Tact is the knack of making a point without making an enemy."
~Sir Isaac Newton~
by warren305 on Apr 25, 2011 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
beat me to it. lol
So let me get this straight: the WWE has gone from the powerful "Austin 3:16" to the dominant and iconic "Can you smell what the Rock is cooking?" all the way to... (cue baby voice) "You can't see me." Oh, believe me, we all can see you. A blind-folded, sleeping, stuck in the basement, Stevie Wonder can see your monkey ass. - The Rock
The second one is more explosive
"Every time I talk on the phone with someone who doesn’t know me, they call me "ma’am"." - Scott C. Broussard
by Earl Montclair on Apr 25, 2011 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
with better chin too
So let me get this straight: the WWE has gone from the powerful "Austin 3:16" to the dominant and iconic "Can you smell what the Rock is cooking?" all the way to... (cue baby voice) "You can't see me." Oh, believe me, we all can see you. A blind-folded, sleeping, stuck in the basement, Stevie Wonder can see your monkey ass. - The Rock
I have always been so happy if any BJ shows up that I have never cared which one.
"Every time I talk on the phone with someone who doesn’t know me, they call me "ma’am"." - Scott C. Broussard
by Earl Montclair on Apr 25, 2011 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions
yea i dont see that happening for much longer
i’d love to see him welcome melendez to the ufc though, that’d be an amazing fight and a solid sendoff for bj (i think hes only gonna hang around for 1 more fight) or the creation of the #1 title contender in the most stacked division in mma
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
Not sure that is where silky was going with that one…
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 25, 2011 3:48 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think there's so much a "Which Shogun"...
as much as there is a history of Shogun not doing well after surgery and recovery layoff. Let’s hope losing badly to Jones doesn’t screw with his confidence… would be sad to see him just go downhill and drop off the radar, but all that mileage on the body, the multiple knee injuries, it’s hard to see him ever beating Jones (unless Jones has some bad injuries as well).
Coleman Shogun/Jones Shogun are completely irrelevant
The Shogun that showed up to fight Jones got beaten, he seemed sluggish because he was hurt in the first round badly and was recovering
hope a healthy shogun comes back
and throw a bunch of his hellish leg/body kicks to set a KO, I don’t like forrest style at all
As long as Shogun is...
the plodding fighter we saw against Jones, he’s not beating Forrest. He used to have exquisite footwork- I think back to his floating backwards across half the cage then throwing one of his trademark feints at Liddell… we haven’t seen Shogun with that kind of lateral movement in some time.
by John Danaher's Hair on Apr 25, 2011 1:05 AM EDT reply actions
No matter what Shogun you’re talking about, the guy is as tough as nails. I’ve never seen him stagger like he did against Jones. It was almost surreal. Granted I haven’t seen all his fights, but if he wasn’t obliterating people a la Rampage, he was never ever in some kind of situation where he wobbled. Even his fight against Lil Nog where he was knocked down a couple times with good clean shots, he was never wobbly or imploding. Jones just put a different and new kind of beating on Shogun that was completely unprecedented. It was sort of hard to watch because I’ve loved Shogun for a lot of years.
But this business about which Shogun is ridiculous. He matches up really well with Machida, didn’t match up so well against Forrest (and that was a hellacious lay-off) but he’s been in the biz for so long, and he’s so experienced, he should be able to take the surgeries and lay-offs by now and, with a full training camp, be able to perform to his ultimate potential.
I think Shogun takes this, assuming he doesn’t get injured again and have to have another surgery or something.
my band
http://www.groggybikini.com
And yet again the fairweather fans desert an admittedly inconsistent Shogun who has been affected by injuries and ring rust.
Seen it all before and when Shogun finishes Forrest they’ll all come back again and say they’ve never doubted Rua…. just like before
Stay on the JJones warwagon…. until he gets beat
A burning passion from a burning mass reaches up for the sky
by Shoguns Hairy Forearms. on Apr 25, 2011 4:52 AM EDT reply actions
The proof is in the pudding.
You said yourself that Shogun is inconsistent. And it’s not really his fault, the knee injuries have affected him enormously. Just the truth. I’m a big Shogun fan, but I think we can now objectively say that the guy looks like shit following knee surgeries.
And beyond that, Shogun has looked like shit every time he’s fought a grinding top control specialist. Babalu, Coleman twice, Forrest, and Jones. I will grant him the Randleman win, that leglock was nasty, but we all know how 1 dimensional Kevin is. And pounding out Arona is impressive as hell, but you can’t ignore the fact that Arona fought a war against Wanderlei, whereas Shogun was able to score a 1’st round TKO over Alistair.
It’s officially a trend.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 25, 2011 5:37 AM EDT up reply actions
His inconsistency is matched by his time out of the cage
He’ll be way better this time out (barring any other injuries) and will finish Forrest.
To address your point about grinding top control weakness, I have to disagree. Babalu was WAY more experience and skilled than Rua at the time and they both fought twice that night so I wouldn’t read into that one too much. Rua was very green and competitive in that fight. Do you think Babalu would win now….?
Coleman 1? Surely you can’t use that?
Coleman 2 – yes, a comical performance by a seriously out of shape Rua. (He still won BTW) rua returning from knee surgery and time out the cage.
Forrest- Rua kicked Forrests arse for a round and gassed. Pretty simple and very similiar circumstances to Coleman 2 except obviously Forrest is a better fighter than Coleman now. Rua needed knee surgery bad before this fight and never got it done..
Jones fucked Rua over with his reach and diverse striking not his wrestling, Rua admitted himself that he took a knee early in round 1 and never recovered. Again, he was coming back from knee surgery
Can you see the real trend in these losses?? ;-)
A burning passion from a burning mass reaches up for the sky
by Shoguns Hairy Forearms. on Apr 25, 2011 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Can you see the real trend in these losses?? ;-)
That people are constantly grasping for excuses to explain the losses away?
Sorry, couldn’t resist…
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 25, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
That would be the easy way out...
A burning passion from a burning mass reaches up for the sky
by Shoguns Hairy Forearms. on Apr 25, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Randleman/Rua was hilarious to watch
Kevin is chomping at the bit, literally runs around the ref (who can’t get out of the way fast enough) and takes Rua down. Within at most 10 seconds from the opening bell, Shogun has a leg isolated and goes to work on it until Randleman eventually taps.
Kevin gave Shogun a little slap to the face once, and maybe a backhand or two, and otherwise literally did nothing. He had Rua’s leg/ankle right in front the whole time, numerous striking and kick opportunities and did nothing.
Among the stranger things I have seen in MMA…
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 25, 2011 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Funny story,
the Summer of ’09 I was training at Xtreme Couture, and Coleman & Randleman were training at Xtreme Couture. They were slammin eachother all over the place, just being fucking huge and ripped and terrifying. I look over during a water break, and Mark has Kevin in a deep kneebar that drew a tap.
Coleman is no joke, but if he leglocks you… yeah. You should probably brush up on your leg submission defense.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 25, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Nice, only being tapped by Sonnen might be worse…
It is funny, I have sometimes heard from people I trust at least a little about different guys who actually have pretty slick submission skills in the gym (Chuck comes to mind), but who never seem to show them in the cage, even when opportunity is there.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 25, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah.
I think in the cage, you revert to what you really are at your core. Unless you’ve drilled something SO MANY times that it’s just completely automatic, you won’t be able to really utilize it well in the cage.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 25, 2011 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions
People forget how it all started
This is what happens a few seconds after the bell. The very first exchange.
Shogun and Jones both decide to act in the same moment (maybe Jones a quarter second earlier).
Jones leaping in with the flying knee (he’s so explosive!) while Shogun throws an overhand right at Jones… well, where his head used to be.
Because Shogun’s hand is mid-flight his chin is exposed and Jones crushing knee lands flush on Shogun’s jaw. Had it been a knockout you would have heard Rogan yelling “OOOOOH ON THE BUTTON!!!!1”
Everybody knows what happened after this strike, but I contend that where Shogun should have been KTFO he instead was Zombie Shogun, never able to recover.
Had Shogun been the early attacker, or had he aimed UP like Fedor/Arlovski, we might had a completely different outcome to this fight. And we’d all still be up on Shogun’s nutz
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t169/Inspectorchao/Mauricio%20Shogun%20Rua/JONESFLYINGKNEE.gif
Shogun wasn’t even rocked or wobbly after this , he just continued fighting . Who knows why Shogun looked as sucky as he did , he looked sucky against Forrest and Coleman and there were certainly no flying knees there .
I think he just had a bad night and was outclassed by a better fighter in Jones. Jones beats him 9 out of 10 times .
exactly lol .
but seriously , Jones is just an animal . I’d like to see him take Cain Velasquez I think in a year from now he can beat him . We’ve never seen such an impressive run to the title (simply destroying his opponents) at such an early age from a fighter . Jones should be there as #1 on the P4P list if he beats Rashad convincingly.
It knocked him for 6 and Rua has a cast iron chin
He also took a combo against the cage whilst trying to get up FLUSH on the jaw.
If your taking accurate knees, punches and elbows from a dehydrated HW your not gonna be working out any trigonometry anytime soon
A burning passion from a burning mass reaches up for the sky
by Shoguns Hairy Forearms. on Apr 25, 2011 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Shogun wasn’t even rocked or wobbly after this
Who knows why Shogun looked as sucky as he did
You just answered your own question!
Bear in mind I am not saying Jones did not look awesome. He surely had his shit together and Jones played a perfect fight. But the idea that Shogun was completely unaffected by a flush flying knee is utterly redonkulous.
by hardlyworking on Apr 25, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
it’s as redonkulous as thinking that just because of this knee (which hit shogun but didn’t rock him) he looked as bad as he did for 3 rounds . It probably affected him but knee or no knee I think Shogun was going down , bad .
As I said , he had similar lackluster performances against Coleman and Griffin and nobody really knows why . You can say that styles make fights but still – looking so stiff and slow against Coleman is just weird .
He also looked WAY more gassed against Jones than he should have been , but maybe that’s because he was fighting a bigger , stronger man . And Jones’ huge reach was a factor ..Shogun just didn’t know how to stand with him.
This is all just wild theories of course , for Shogun fans it would be ‘easier’ to think that this one flukish knee at the first 10 seconds is what made Shogun look so bad but I don’t accept it , mostly because Shogun had this unexplicable (perhaps injury related) lapses in his fights before .
I am a Shogun fan too btw but I think that he has nothing for Jones . And untill proven otherwise , no one else in LHW too .
Oh I don't think it was a fluke knee
at all – You even see Jones dip as if he’s going for a level change before launching it. Absolutely perfect. Perfect timing, perfect placement.
And I completely agree that Jones was going to take out Shogun regardless of that knee, even if as you contend Shogun was in not in top-form from some other reason.
Jones dynamic and violent wrestling + judo + elbows was going to drop Shogun eventually
by hardlyworking on Apr 25, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Not a fluke at all
Rua reads Jone’s hip movement as a switch-kick, and goes to counter with an overhand right. Pretty straightforward, except it just happened to be a flying knee, and not a kick. Not a fluke, just a bad read by Shogun.
Very few things in MMA
qualify as true “flukes”. BJ Penn getting a rib broken by a Hughes headbutt in a scramble is a fluke. Randy Couture having his eyelid sliced open by Vitor’s glove is a fluke.
Jon Jones throwing & landing a flying knee which he set up perfectly is no fluke. Not even close.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 27, 2011 3:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Well,
I don’t see how that knee (which didn’t seem to stun or wobble him) could’ve made him look like shit for the rest of the fight, but the counter punch that Rogerio landed on him (and made him do the stanky leg) wasn’t enough to stop Shogun from tossing him around for the remainder of the fight and winning the decision.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 25, 2011 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Good post man
A burning passion from a burning mass reaches up for the sky
by Shoguns Hairy Forearms. on Apr 25, 2011 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Apropos nothing much
wouldn’t it be fun to have a card matching up the last bunch of 205 champions who could only (effectively) hold on to their titles for one fight in both UFC and Strikeforce?
Jones vs Henderson
Rua vs Cavalcante
Machida vs Lawal
Evans vs Moussasi
Griffin vs Sobral
that oughtta sell a few ppvs
http://fightdrinker.blogspot.com
by some schmuck in texas on Apr 25, 2011 7:21 AM EDT reply actions
after this fight i want to see..
..forrest in another rematch.
NOT.
"Blow it out your ass."
by IGotBallsOfSteel on Apr 25, 2011 9:17 AM EDT reply actions
i would never bet money on this match
Horrible betting odds and this fight can go either way.
Nothing but RESPECT for Matt "The Terror" Serra
http://gotmma.org/ - Korean MMA blog
by DK_Monster on Apr 25, 2011 11:02 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Forrest likes being the underdog...
I’m not surprised Forrest is the underdog again…he’s consistently being underestimated in my opinion. I think he’s going to beat Shogun a second time in similar fashion to the last fight. He’s too big and has too much cardio for Shogun. If he beats him again, I think he deserves a title shot against Jones. I’d like to see him shock the MMA world one more time. :)
Should he beat Rua, and I suspect he will,
I don’t see how he can not get a title shot. Rampage is the only other one with a real argument, should he beat Hamill.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 26, 2011 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
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