Frankie Edgar Is the Underdog to Gilbert Melendez
by Nick Thomas on Apr 22, 2011 1:05 AM EDT
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The (fantasy super-fight) odds opened up this week at:
Frankie Edgar -110 vs. Gilbert Melendez -130-- photo via Esther Lin, Strikeforce
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People forget how quick he is and how difficult he is to hit, hold down, and get down. There’s no way Melendez handles him the way he handled the last couple of guys. Milendez loses to Maynard, loses to Penn, and has a fight to the death with Maynard, IMO.
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Edgar is quick,
but so is Gil. And I think he packs more power in his punches, too. I honestly think this would be a pick ’em, but Gilbert is a good sized lightweight, whereas Frankie (as has been noted time and again) is kind of a pipsqueak.
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by ElliotMatheny on Apr 22, 2011 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
This
Gil is like a bigger, meaner version of Edgar. I’d pick Gil all day, and that’s not a slight on Frankie.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Apr 22, 2011 8:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah,
I think Frankie is a smart fighter, and is probably more versatile than Gilbert all around, but BJ and Gray were both able to touch Frank’s chin early and often, and I think Gil has the ability to do what Gray did, but better.
And this is coming from a voracious Gray Maynard nutgoblin.
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by ElliotMatheny on Apr 22, 2011 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Frankie has a great gas tank
and is excellent at sticking to his game plan. The problem for him is that Melendez also has a great gas tank, has the same basic game plan, is bigger and hits harder. I think Frankie’s speed edge wouldn’t be enough to keep Gil off of him.
You’ve trained with Gray right?
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Apr 22, 2011 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Yep,
I see it the same way. I think this line is correct though- I only give Melendez like a 53/47 advantage, very slight.
And yes, Maynard taught a few wrestling classes I went to at Xtreme Couture. He is a fantastic teacher, and is seriously a technical wrestling wiz. I’ve had the chance to shoot the breeze with him a few time, and he’s a nice, funny dude.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest!
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 22, 2011 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
So after he loses to Maynard
He has to fight to the death with Maynard?
by Thomas Benjamin on Apr 22, 2011 5:27 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
ATTN: Rodney Dangerfield
Frankie Edgar gets less respect than you do
by Hashmo on Apr 22, 2011 1:10 AM EDT reply actions 8 recs
I laughed, and then I recced because that imo deserves it.
by Empty Thoughts on Apr 22, 2011 6:36 AM EDT up reply actions
I tell ya I get no respect, my brother said I was so ugly, he dressed as me for Halloween.
I've got something to say; it better to burn out than to fade away!!!
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If Maynard couldnt put Frankie away in that first round
I doubt Melendez will be able to at any point. I think Frankie is slightly quicker and will put Melendez on the mat. Frankie probably won’t finish him, but will dominate on the ground for the majority of the fight.
Because Maynard has shown unstoppable finishing instincts?
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by Neil Manich on Apr 22, 2011 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Did we see different first rounds of that fight?
Because that first round, Maynard did everything he could to finish Frankie. I’m not claiming anything for the rest of his fight history, though he certainly went for the submission finish against Huerta.
Still, Maynard’s finishing instinct is beside the point. The point is that Frankie can survive and come back to win from a ton of near fight finishing damage. And I still see the fight playing out as I outlined.
by Cocytus on Apr 22, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Maynard
Has great finishing instincts now. You can’t fault him for not finishing Huerta – He had Roger’s arm twisted in a way that would make most fighter’s faint, and Roger simply wouldn’t tap. And just because he threw everything but the kitchen sink, and couldn’t finish Edgar, doesn’t mean a lot. BJ Penn (who has arguably the heaviest hands at 155), couldn’t finsh Edgar either.
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I don't buy this reasoning at all
you just can’t say someone has “great finishing instincts” if he never finishes anyone. I know Maynard fans like to point out how good his competition has been, and that’s a reasonable argument, but good finishers finish people.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Apr 22, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think so – Edgar was continually defending, getting up (and getting taken back down) and fighting back. Just like with Lesnar/Carwin, Diaz face down against Daley, or maybe even Anderson/Sonnen in R3 (96-4 or similar), I don’t think there would have been a huge outcry if any of those were stopped earlier, but in all 4 cases the champion rallied to win or draw.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
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by The American Ronin on Apr 22, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Lavigne was remiss for not having stopped the Fight.
Edgar was out. I was there, two rows from the Cage. It was a pitiful sight knowing Edgar was out on his feet and flailing, clinging to the fence, running, falling,somersaulting.
Anything to stay alive. Fighting back was the furthest thing from his mind.
His Corner was ready to throw in the towel.
Mr Maynard, an old, old friend , saiid if his Son is ever being beaten in that manner lthat they had BETTER stop the fight.
Frankie Edgar has absolutely no recollection of that fight. Long term, I can only conjecture the very worst.
Edgar would frustrate and dominate Gil for 5 rounds.
I would like to see Gil fight Guillard, Florian, Miller or Penn.
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by ProfessorBLove on Apr 22, 2011 1:18 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
When are people gonna learn?
Frankie does just fine for himself as the underdog.
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Ya he seems to always be the underdog. Much less pressure.
People who don't have the patience for the technical aspect of MMA should think about getting into another sport. THIS ONE requires BRAINS.
by i_am_awesome_o on Apr 22, 2011 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Would love for Frankie to take out Melendez
Not a fan of the Cesar Gracie camp-at least as people. As fighters, I actually love watching them all fight.
People who don't have the patience for the technical aspect of MMA should think about getting into another sport. THIS ONE requires BRAINS.
I'm not even a big Frankie Edgar fan, but...
that’s no way to treat the UFC’s next two-division champ
You win again Dutchess
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by KingAtRock on Apr 22, 2011 5:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
frankie is good but gil is just a beast
too big, too technical, too smart. just too well rounded. he’s also developed alot of power in his hands lately.
Melendez just has an instinct to finish. He really puts a lot of power in his strikes standing, and his ground n pound looks like some sort of gang initiation.
As far as a hypothetical fight goes, it really can go either way. Skill-wise, they are equal or about equal in all aspects of MMA.
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Happy to bet these odds on Edgar. Goddamn
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by Cory Braiterman on Apr 22, 2011 1:43 AM EDT reply actions
Edgar has one legit top win.
The second Penn fight. He totally lost the first. And should have lost the Maynard fight as well, because that was a 10-7 first round. So beyond that he’s got… Sherk? Veach? Jim Miller before either of them were relevant?
Melendez is quick, light on his feet, defensively tight, stupidly powerful, well conditioned, and smart in the ring. This line does not surprise me.
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by pdl on Apr 22, 2011 1:43 AM EDT reply actions 7 recs
I had him losing the Maynard fight
Haven’t watched in a while, but I gave Maynard rd 10-8 and then rounds 3 and 5 I think. With round 5 being close as.
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If round 1 wasn't 10-7, then there's no such thing as a 10-7 round in MMA.
I had it as an Edgar win when I first scored it, but have revised that opinion. There is no way to beat an ass worse harder than Maynard beat that ass the first round without getting a TKO. His corner was looking for the towel (which you can hear on the ufc.tv stream with his corner’s audio). It was arguably the worst ass beating in one round that didn’t result in a stoppage in MMA history. That means that to win, Edgar needed to win all four other rounds 10-9. The draw was generous.
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No, just...no
If round 1 wasn’t 10-7, then there’s no such thing as a 10-7 round in MMA.
R1 of Edgar/Maynard 2 was essentially even for the first 1:15 or so until Gray cracked him, and then the last 1:30 was essentially even.
Like Lesnar/Carwin, although to a lesser degree, Edgar is fortunate the fight weren’t stopped, and either could fairly be 10-8, but R3 of Fitch/Penn was more one-sided than either, although Penn never was rocked like they were.
Among title or #1 contender fights, either R1 or R3 of Sonnen/Anderson were also closer to being legit 10-7 rounds than R1 of Edgar/Maynard 2.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 22, 2011 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions
A lot of people scored round three of Penn vs. Fitch as a 10 – 9 and disagreed with the 10 – 8. I considered it an exemplary 10 – 8, but nowhere near a 10 – 7. Cyborg vs. Cuddles rd. 1 is the definitive 10 – 7 in my mind. The judges’ unwillingness to grant one to Maynard compels me to think they’re a thing of the past.
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A lot of people scored round three of Penn vs. Fitch as a 10 – 9 and disagreed with the 10 – 8. I considered it an exemplary 10 – 8, but nowhere near a 10 – 7.
I agree, but I brought it up because pdl previously said “Fitch had a 2600% advantage against Penn in the third. Arguably a 10-7.”
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 22, 2011 3:02 AM EDT up reply actions
That's... really wrong.
Sonnen landed a few good punches standing but maybe two or three threatening shots on the ground in the whole fight. Mostly pitter patter. There was never a time where the fight was close to being stopped because Sonnen’s offense was so effective, and Anderson was never dominated any more than Matt Wiman dominated Cole Miller. Which was an ass whooping, but not like Maynard vs. Edgar II round 1.
The following is my play by play as of about 90 seconds ago watching the fight again:
Edgar with a leg kick. Flurries but misses. Edgar eats a left hook, misses his counters. Lands a solid outside leg kick. Edgar eats a right hand. LEFT HOOK AND KNOCKDOWN FROM MAYNARD! Nasty hammer fists. Knocked down again 15 seconds later. Up to his feet. Falls over. Up, then pushed over by gray. Stands up by holding the cage, dragged down by Gray. Back up after tons of ground strikes, ducks a left. Eats two lefts and half falls half shoots for a single. Goes nowhere, gets back up. Maynard against the cage. Twoish minutes left. Knocks Edgar down AGAIN with the left hook after an uppercut and overhand right. Edgar running. Another knockdown, this time from a right hand. Eating hammerfists on the ground. hit again while standing. Edgar lands one good punch on Gray, gets walked through. Minute left. He has no idea where he is, hanging his chin out. Just running, not throwing anything. Maynard still connecting. Edgar lands one jab and nothing else in the last minute.
Four legit knockdowns, not counting when Frankie just fell over or got taken down or pushed off balance. Four knockdowns. When has anybody ever been hit that much, that hard, not defended, and not gotten stopped in a round? Brock defended most of Carwins punches with his giant forearms. The Crow never got beat up that badly by Franklin in one round, although he did get his ass whooped. Sonnen never was that effective against Anderson, certainly not in one round. Round one of Edgar Maynard II is the poster child of the 10-7 round in high level MMA. If that doesn’t get it, nothing will.
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Dominating 2:15 of a round, while the other 2:45 was essentially even does not a 10-7 round make. And Frankie was defending the majority of the time.
No matter how much many of us believe or agree with the idea that being “nearly finished” is a scoring criteria, the reality is the following:
(j) The following objective scoring criteria shall be utilized by the judges when scoring a round;Despite the dominance being for half or less of the round, this was overwhelmingly dominant, but not totally dominant.
1. A round is to be scored as a 10-10 Round when both contestants appear to be fighting evenly and neither contestant shows clear dominance in a round;
2. A round is to be scored as a 10-9 Round when a contestant wins by a close margin, landing the greater number of effective legal strikes, grappling and other maneuvers;
3. A round is to be scored as a 10-8 Round when a contestant overwhelmingly dominates by striking or grappling in a round.
4. A round is to be scored as a 10-7 Round when a contestant totally dominates by striking or grappling in a round.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 22, 2011 3:00 AM EDT up reply actions
It's not about the near finish.
Note my language. Sonnen did not have EFFECTIVE offense against Anderson. Any yes, Maynard completely dominated. Edgar landed one clean punch that deterred Maynard exactly not at all. And two outside leg kicks. Compared to four legit knockdowns, several takedowns, and powerful ground striking, Edgar offering nothing but survival grabbing the cage to stand back up. That was a 10-7 or there are no 10-7s in MMA. I mean… name another instance where one is justifiable and the fight didn’t get stopped? Maybe GSP-Fitch or Fitch vs. Penn? What is a 10-7 in MMA if that round isn’t one for Maynard?
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He already named two
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im with ronin
on maynard/edgar not being a 10-7 round, but i disagree with penn/fitch or lesnar/carwin being 10-7s. fitch actually been doing any damage with those ridiculous little shots i would give that 10-7, but at no point was bj in any real danger, he was just stuck and annoyed. if lesnar had not gotten back to his feet in round 1 i would give that a 10-7, but carwin gassed and lesnar got up. all three are 10-8 in my book. i would be more apt to give maynard/edgar a 10-7 had that dominant 2 minutes been the last 2 minutes of the round, and yes, that does matter to me in a big way. had the opening 3 minutes been evenly contested with neither fighter having any advantage then maynard took over with 4 knockdowns and a dazed edgar to end the round i’d give it 10-7 then, because it would appear edgar was saved by the bell. but simply due to the fact that edgar was able to regain composure and take away maynards head of steam makes it 10-8 to me. this is a great debate though, because even i cant give an example off the top of my head of a 10-7 round. perhaps it is a red herring.
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 22, 2011 7:16 AM EDT up reply actions
looking at the definitions...
Overwhelm: to cover over completely ,to overcome by superior force or numbers.
Total: absolute, utter. involving a complete and unified effort especially to achieve a desired effect
there isn’t a clear line to show a difference between a 10-8 and a 10-7. the language needs to be more clear so there is no doubt at the difference btween the two.
Even for half the round and the other half KNOCKDOWN AFTER KNOCKDOWN
How much more effective can anyone be in an MMA fight without a stoppage than getting 4 knockdowns?
Not afraid to nitpick
One jab in the last minute?
Edgar blasted him with a nice straight that cut him open in the last minute.
"I am going to punch faces." --Wanderlei Silva
War Miller Bros.
I don't think any of those rounds were 10-7
Kalib Starnes running away for 5 minutes was 10-7. Given how wide the current range is for 10-9 (which can mean everything from the narrowest of edges, to a completely convincing round) the range for 10-8 has to include rounds where guys mount any reasonable offense or defense — which both Edgar and Silva did.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Apr 22, 2011 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Completely agree
To get a 10-7 round in MMA it needs to be a bell to bell embarrassment…such as running away constantly
by MemphisMike on Apr 22, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t give any of those rounds a 10-7 either, fwiw. The Starnes example is one of the few definitive ones imo.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 22, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
In a sense it's a shame
I think MMA scoring would be a lot better if judges were a little more open to giving 10-8s and 10-7s, since it would more accurately reflect what goes on in a fight, but by the current standards, Dana’s right — 10-7s are like unicorns.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Apr 22, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree 100%
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by ElliotMatheny on Apr 22, 2011 6:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Sherk was relevant back then. He lost the first BJ fight, but don’t pretend that it wasn’t even close or anything. BJ was supposed to make him look silly, instead we got a razor close decision, and even if Penn had gotten the nod from the judges Frankie would’ve probably gotten the rematch for the same reason that Penn got it. Edgar dominated him in the second fight, something nobody had been able to do to Penn at LW. He got destroyed by Maynard in the first round, but the recovery and the comeback were incredibly impressive. Whether he lost that fight or not, his last few performances were those of a champion, so I see Melendez vs. Edgar as a toss up.
by Thomas Benjamin on Apr 22, 2011 6:50 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is a pick em, and the odds show that.
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El Nino can KO frankie
but Frankie’s speed, boxing style (the most frustrating) and wrestling will prove too much if he doesnt do it within the first 2 rounds.
Frankie’s got my respect, he is the best lightweight right now, if El nino wants to take that title, he will have to goto the UFC and take it.
beating AOKI then Crusher means nothing to me, he should play in the shark infested lightweight division.
Gil is bigger than Frankie, not suprised
Plus he just got done finishing a top 10 guy.
Sonnen hasn't been a favorite since he fought Brian Baker in the WEC.
Edgar was a favorite against Veach, Franca, and Maynard in the first fight in the same timeframe. Fun fact.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Seriously?
About Sonnen I mean?
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 22, 2011 2:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I seriously recall him being the underdog to Maynard, but I’m not sure.
by Thomas Benjamin on Apr 22, 2011 6:52 AM EDT up reply actions
i think this is just because Frankie looked so bad in the 1st round vs Gray, and Gilbert looked so good vs Crusher
if the two actually fought, come fight time, id expect frankie to be the favorite
I had the same thought...
This would be an even fight in my opinion, but Frankie should be the favorite because he’s ranked #1 in the division. His size must be a huge factor in always being the underdog. Edgar is fantastic at impressing the judges; the most likely outcome has to be him winning a UD 3 rounds to 2. I could see it being a lot like the first BJ fight.
Is it possible for an administrator to change my handle? I want it to be "Genki Pseudonym." I just thought of that myself.
Sorry Frankie...
but Gilbert would beat the daylights out of you.
by 08Streetbob on Apr 22, 2011 2:17 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Frankie has shown beyond a shadow of a doubt...
that him taking a beating doesn’t mean he loses the fight. that you think in absolutes that are so clearly biased makes your opinion much less credible. i think Gil wins 3 out of 5 times and perhaps 1 of those 3 is a KO/TKO but really it is that close.
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by F'n Clownshoes on Apr 22, 2011 5:05 AM EDT up reply actions
uh
if he can handle Maynard’s fists, I think he can handle Gil’s
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by Cory Braiterman on Apr 22, 2011 2:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Second time this has been said, and I don't get it
Gil undoubtedly hits twice as hard as Maynard
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I dont understand anyone who puts Grays striking on a pedestal
Until the Edgar fight it has always looked rudimentary at best and even in that fight he got beat standing by an Edgar who was fighting on instincts. Catching a superior striker with a big shot doesnt make you an equal.
i don't think anyone is putting gray's striking on a pedestal
i know i’m certainly not. he is, however, very powerful for 155 and caught edgar flush multiple times. he’s certainly not a technical, crisp boxer, but he packs a good punch.
in conclusion, yes, what you said is correct, and i never said otherwise.
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by Cory Braiterman on Apr 22, 2011 5:04 AM EDT up reply actions
except
there’s absolutely zero quantifiable stat that shows what you’re saying is correct. so yes, there’s plenty of doubt.
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by Cory Braiterman on Apr 22, 2011 5:01 AM EDT up reply actions
11-2
KO/TKO wins.
Gilbert hits much harder than Gray, who has never demonstrated any real finishing power.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Apr 22, 2011 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions
accuracy affects ones ability to get a KO/TKO
and they are different skills/abilities
I'm just responding to the idea that there is no empirical evidence
for Gil having better functional KO power than Maynard. Gil has consistently KO’d and TKO’d high-level opponents throughout his career and Gray hasn’t. That seems like pretty strong evidence of Gil’s superior striking (power and accuracy).
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Apr 22, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
that is not a quantifiable stat and you know it
for starters, Gil has almost double the fights Maynard has. Secondly, they’re all against different people – I don’t think they have a single common opponent. Thirdly, up until recently, Maynard had the much higher level of competition, including a ton of guys who are notoriously hard to (T)KO: Florian, Diaz, Huerta, Miller, Edgar… Arguably, he’s still faced a much higher level than Melendez, but thats another topic.
There is no quantifiable statistic that shows Gil punches harder than Gray. None. Get the two wired up and we can test them, but until that happens, stop saying that there’s some actual quantifiable evidence. What DOES exist is guesswork and conclusions from incomplete data.
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by Cory Braiterman on Apr 22, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree it's not sport science
but it’s the best we’ve got. I don’t know for a fact that Paul Daley hits harder than Jon Fitch, but I feel pretty good making that assertion, since Paul Daley has separated a lot of dudes from their consciousness and Jon Fitch hasn’t.
I don’t think the gap is as wide between Maynard and Gil, but Gil is a proven KO/TKO threat at 155 and Maynard simply isn’t. At some point, Maynard is going to have to finish someone if people are going to believe that he has finishing power.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Apr 22, 2011 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I've got no problems with labeling it as a KO/TKO threat
That’s a perfectly legitimate conclusion. “more powerful” is something that can (roughly) accurately be measured by numbers however, and simply hasn’t. Stats are an important metric, and mislabeling shit bugs the hell out of me. Comparing two people who haven’t got a single common opponent and saying
Gil undoubtedly hits twice as hard as Maynardwhen there’s ways to actually measure it THAT SIMPLY HAVE NOT BEEN DONE is just dumb. Comparing apples to frying pans.
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by Cory Braiterman on Apr 22, 2011 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, that's totally fair
and I highly doubt that any one elite 155 pounder hits twice as hard as any other elite 155 pounder. I suspect the margins are quite a bit smaller.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Apr 22, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Right. You need stats and shit. Use your eyes and your brain and stop being defiant.
Gilbert hits a helluva lot harder than Maynard.
And then God created Saturn ... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
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by James Brady on Apr 23, 2011 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Edgar got blessed with a decision 2 of his last 3
He isnt the world beater everyone is trying to make him out to be because he is holding the belt. I love well rounded fighters which is why Eddie, Gil and Frankie are my favorite but Gil is the best. Frankiee doesnt have the size and power and Eddie just leaves himself open to get cracked way too much. In a 5 rounder Gil finishes Edgar.
I should clraify frankee doesnt have size and power to finish fights
Which I think is problem. Against upper tier 155ers he is probabpy going to be in 5 round wars every time.
Honestly, he went 1-2 in those
fights, I don’t care what the horrible judges said.
If...
We are just making up our own scorecards and using those instead of real ones, then I have him as 3-0 during that time period.
"I am going to punch faces." --Wanderlei Silva
War Miller Bros.
by Jay Bittner on Apr 22, 2011 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
They don't
I posted a big rant about the Jardine/Mousasi fight just the other day. But in the end, we have to base wins/losses off of that, specifically in close decisions. None of those were robberies, all were close. In the course of crazy Garcia-like robberies, I get it. But those were very close fights that could’ve went several ways on the scorecards. They went the way they did.
"I am going to punch faces." --Wanderlei Silva
War Miller Bros.
he may go 5 everytime, so what
he gets better in rounds 4 and 5. whether that has to do w/ his opposition getting tired or Frankie’s unlimited gas tank or the lack of lactic acid build up in his muscles or game planning etc. actually you should be worried if you are fighting Frankie and you enter round 4.
"There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. ~James Morrow
"There is a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot."-Steven Wright
by F'n Clownshoes on Apr 22, 2011 5:10 AM EDT up reply actions
If he has to go 5 everytime that just increase the chances he will loses
Say his next 3 are against Gray, Pettis, Guillard. Thats going to suck. And alot of guys at 155 have good gas tanks
At first glance, I thought Edgar-Maynard II was cancelled. LOL.
So let me get this straight: the WWE has gone from the powerful "Austin 3:16" to the dominant and iconic "Can you smell what the Rock is cooking?" all the way to... (cue baby voice) "You can't see me." Oh, believe me, we all can see you. A blind-folded, sleeping, stuck in the basement, Stevie Wonder can see your monkey ass. - The Rock
To see this first thing in the morning when I wasn’t fully awake yet, I thought at first that Maynard got hurt, and Zuffa pulled Melendez over… Damn you for getting my hopes up.
Agreed
Melendez is just a bit better in all areas. I think he would handle him and overwhelm him. Thats why I want Dana to send BJ over for a superfight so Melendez could at least show what he can do against BJ compared to Frankie.
How cool would it be if Maynard got injured training (no I don’t want a fighter to get injured just saying) and they could get this fight done on PPV? Oh my!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
Better hope he finishes him
Edgars got the judges in his back pocket.
I don't always hope for draft picks, but when I do, I prefer Owen Marecic.
by tito (eight and oh) on Apr 22, 2011 8:35 AM EDT reply actions
These odds make me happy
Not cause they don’t respect Frankie but because they DO respect Gil, who is a beast. I’d put money on him
I’m not much of a gambler and I don’t understand how seriously to take these numbers. Are these odds intended to reflect the likely outcome of the fight? Or do they only reflect the bookmakers’ prediction of what likely bettors will think is the likely outcome of the fight? It seems to me that the purpose of the odds is to maximize the bookmakers’ profits, not to make an actual prediction about the fight.
This is just moronic
Especially so when comparing the level of competition they’ve fought. This is like saying Nick Diaz is the favorite vs GSP because he finishes mid level guys while GSP wins decisions against the best of the best.
Slow your roll, ya'll.
It’s almost like people think that initial lines are an actual representation of the “true line”.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
Seriously?
Sure Melendez just destroyed Kawajiri, but we are talking about FRANKIE EDGAR here. This is a guy who beat BJ Penn TWICE (despite the controversy in the first fight, very few even thought he would be somewhat competitive), something no one else has done except GSP. Not only did he beat BJ, he sent him out of the lightweight division that everyone thought he was going to dominate for years.
Melendez is a hell of a fighter, but his two best wins are against Kawajiri and a painfully one-dimensional Aoki. In my opinion, two fighters that Frankie would easily handle.
Frankie is also on another level speed wise, his wrestling is incredible, and as is his boxing and footwork.
I thought people would start giving this guy all respect he was due after the Maynard fight. How many other fighters would have come back from that first round to win the majority of the latter ones? As of right now Gilbert Melendez is a very good lightweight, but Frankie Edgar is an elite fighter and in my opinion should be talked about in the same conversation as GSP, Aldo, and Andy.
Holy shit that was a long post
Edgar is the man and deserves some love
by LosLurkos on Apr 22, 2011 9:37 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I know DFW
kept quiet during the SF HW Tourney. But before that he was pretty vocal about Fedor fighting 2nd tier competition in SF. It would be pretty amusing if Gil beat Frankie, the Reem beat whoever, and Shields beat GSP. I know the last one was a long shot but anything can happen in MMA. The point was there is a good chance a few divisions could be taken over by SF Champs.
Just Breed!
by ScoreCardOTN on Apr 22, 2011 9:40 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Shields hype won his first ufc fight
by LosLurkos on Apr 22, 2011 9:53 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I dont think People are giving Edgar enough credit.
Ya, he doesnt finish fights, but their exciting as fuck to watch him pick people apart. I had the Edgar Gray 2 as a draw, Edgar 2,4,5 and Gray 1,3. I think Edgar would be a much harder fight for Gil then People think. Edgar can Mix up his striking and take on GSP type levels, that is why he is so good, and how he has been able to beat strikers that hit way harder then him. He uses speed, footwork, constant movement, technical boxing that is the top of the division, and explosive take downs mid swing to win fights. He is the GSP of the LW division.
Jules: Normally, both your asses would be dead as fucking fried chicken, but you happen to pull this shit while I'm in a transitional period so I don't wanna kill you, I wanna help you. But I can't give you this case, it don't belong to me. Besides, I've already been through too much shit this morning over this case to hand it over to your dumb ass.
See see this is the problem
Because Edgar has shown little ability to finish fights, Melendez would be favored over him because it’s highly unlikely he just gets picked apart for a decision.
I’d sure as hell would like to see the fight though.
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
by SSreporters on Apr 22, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
I understand completely.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Edgar is the underdog for all his fights, I think he fights better that way. Just people tend to forget how one sided the rest of the Edgar Maynard two fights was after the first round. Gray was lucky to get the 3rd round, not sure how one takedown where you do no damage from the top wins you the run when you are getting outstriked left and right. But hey Jardine won his fight that way.
Jules: Normally, both your asses would be dead as fucking fried chicken, but you happen to pull this shit while I'm in a transitional period so I don't wanna kill you, I wanna help you. But I can't give you this case, it don't belong to me. Besides, I've already been through too much shit this morning over this case to hand it over to your dumb ass.
by RJshock 305 on Apr 22, 2011 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
@shock
Watch round 3 again, with someone, so you can’t BS yourself. Maynard wins the round.
UFC/SF LW Tourney
Just do it. This weight class makes no sense right now and it needs a tournament. Pettis shouldn’t be getting a title shot with one win. Guillard shouldn’t be fighting Shane Roller. Melendez shouldn’t waste his time with inferior LWs in Strikeforce. Jim Miller needs top 10 competition.
TOURNAMENT! NOW!
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
Agreed.
I mean WTF is up with the LW fights now. Siver beats G-sop and Dunnam back to back and now gets someone way irrelevant in Wiman. Miller is getting the Fitch treatment which his BullShit. Melvin and Miller should fight. or Miller and Siver.
Jules: Normally, both your asses would be dead as fucking fried chicken, but you happen to pull this shit while I'm in a transitional period so I don't wanna kill you, I wanna help you. But I can't give you this case, it don't belong to me. Besides, I've already been through too much shit this morning over this case to hand it over to your dumb ass.
by RJshock 305 on Apr 22, 2011 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Siver didn't beat Dunham
Guillard did.
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
by SSreporters on Apr 22, 2011 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Opps that was Sherk.
Both guys are small and short armed so I get them confused half the time. Speaking of Sherk WTF happened to him?
Jules: Normally, both your asses would be dead as fucking fried chicken, but you happen to pull this shit while I'm in a transitional period so I don't wanna kill you, I wanna help you. But I can't give you this case, it don't belong to me. Besides, I've already been through too much shit this morning over this case to hand it over to your dumb ass.
by RJshock 305 on Apr 22, 2011 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Sherk is habitually injured
He probably won’t fight again until 2016.
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
by SSreporters on Apr 22, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not sure what habitually injured means , but it sounds very bad.
Jules: Normally, both your asses would be dead as fucking fried chicken, but you happen to pull this shit while I'm in a transitional period so I don't wanna kill you, I wanna help you. But I can't give you this case, it don't belong to me. Besides, I've already been through too much shit this morning over this case to hand it over to your dumb ass.
by RJshock 305 on Apr 22, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
You could argue G-Sot got the Fitch treatment
Stevenson then Lauzon then Siver. No top 10 fighters to be found here (Stevenson maybe was at the time) and Sot I think was 7-0 in the UFC before the Siver loss.
Of course now we know G-Sot’s weaknesses but stylistically I think he could hang with Edgar.
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
by SSreporters on Apr 22, 2011 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Hmmm possibly.
I dont think G-sop would do to good of his back. Also Edgar knows he has the best BJJ in that division so he would probably fight him like he did BJ.
Jules: Normally, both your asses would be dead as fucking fried chicken, but you happen to pull this shit while I'm in a transitional period so I don't wanna kill you, I wanna help you. But I can't give you this case, it don't belong to me. Besides, I've already been through too much shit this morning over this case to hand it over to your dumb ass.
by RJshock 305 on Apr 22, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
best in division? ok bj is a W.W. or he is clearly #1
Aoki gets the nod over Sot imho. ,
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 22, 2011 12:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
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