Is Spike TV Sabotaging the UFC's Ratings?
by Nate Wilcox on Apr 18, 2011 3:11 PM EDT
in Business of MMA
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The recent spate of weak TV ratings for UFC programming on Spike TV has had some commenters questioning everything about the UFC's approach. We've questioned the star value of Brock Lesnar after the weak debut of The Ultimate Fighter season 13. We've questioned the stale, tired format of the Prime Time series after St. Pierre vs Shields was a bust in its debut. Geno Mrosko has made some comprehensive recommendation for fixing TUF.
I first began to think there was something else involved after seeing these tweets from HDNet exec (and MMA Payout founder) Adam Swift:
TUF rating is all about time slot and lead-in. What was the rating for Coal? That's the show I saw cross channel promos for.less than a minute ago via Twitter for iPad 
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Adam Swift
adammswift
The story of the Countdown rating is again the time slot, not the number, just like with TUF.less than a minute ago via web Favorite Retweet ReplyAdam Swift
adammswift
Seeing Swift -- someone much smarter about the MMA biz than I am -- tweeting on this topic and then talking to a couple of other business insiders whose opinions I respect very much got me thinking.
While there's no doubt that TUF is stale beyond words and the Prime Time series is anything but scintillating, both shows had other things in common that hurt their ratings.
- Time Changes
The Ultimate Fighter ran an hour earlier than normal. Primetime ran an hour later. TV viewers are creatures of habit, moving old favorites around is a sure-fire way to lose viewers - Lack of Promotion
The ads on Spike TV this year have been for things like their reality series Coal not for UFC related programming.
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If the UFC is destination programming like Zuffa is probably suggesting it is during every meeting with SPIKE execs, it shouldn’t have to be protected. No one worried about what the lead in was for American Idol or Cheers. Top shows on any network should boost the programming around them. They shouldn’t be begging for a boost…
by Jonathan Snowden on Apr 18, 2011 3:14 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
EXactly
And Coal will help TUFs #s. It will overtake it. Those shows do extremely well.
I don’t think anybody is “begging for a boost.” This isn’t someone at Zuffa making this claim, but rather, someone with vast knowledge of both the MMA and television businesses. I’m not sure that I’ve seen Dana White complain about time slots or lead-ins, but I could be wrong.
Fight Rankings - I don't know more about MMA than you, but I'll certainly pretend that I do.
where do u think the UFC goes if they leave spike?
what other channels are out there and interested?
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
Probably not Versus at this point.
"Unless you can’t think of something intelligent to say, don’t reply and make the world as dumb as you are appearing to be." - mabel4life
by lowellthehammer on Apr 18, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m sure other channels are interested as seen with them being on ION and Versus. I think the question is more of what is the most lucrative for the UFC at this point. People are conditioned that Spike broadcasts UFC shows. If something bigger like ESPN, Showtime or something like that comes calling, then of course the UFC should go there. Everyone says that Spike needs the UFC more than the UFC needs Spike, but I don’t if that’s truly the case yet as I said before that people know that Spike carries UFC content.
Check out the C&D Channel on YouTube for MMA reviews, predictions, analysis, and other MMA related content.
FX continually comes up in rumours about potential TV signings. And the rebranded CBS Sports might take a look too.
I dunno loretta hunt got banned from press credentials and she works for CBS sports and now theyre saying they will not cover UFC events
by Papercut Elbow on Apr 18, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
CBSSports.com coverage of events, and CBS Sports the TV network carrying events are two entirely different things.
Do the numbers justify any significant expenditure? People just aren’t watching.
by Jonathan Snowden on Apr 18, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
so you dont think the UFC has a viable option outside of reupping with spike?
i feel like their substantial growth in recent years, and the highs they’ve achieved are bigger to networks then the relative slump they’ve been in
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
I’m sure there are lots of interested parties. I just wonder what makes sense financially.
by Jonathan Snowden on Apr 18, 2011 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
For TUF? No. But UFC brings a whole suite of programming with them, with live events being the real ratings-getter. As a cable property, it does pretty well running up against minor NBA/MLB games and the like. I don’t think CBS Sports will try to make a big splash to sign UFC, but they’re out there as theoretical alternatives when the contracts come up for renewal.
I dunno middleeasy seems to think its Zuffa not caring much about CBS as a whole.
by Papercut Elbow on Apr 18, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
dude, that guy is a crazy conspiracy theorist, prolly smokin crack in a hollywood alley before he writes his insane articles
i think it’d be interesting to go back and look at old sunday morning rumor mills and see how many actually were right, and the result would be like less 2% of them were true
thats quite true but what he wrote about the loretta hunt thing seems legit
Only in the sense that professionally speaking you cant act like Dana is acting towards Hunt if shes representing a big news org. Basically Dana wants his own people covering the sport. While thats a short term marketing tool in the long run itll hurt him with not as much exposure and burnt bridges.
by Papercut Elbow on Apr 18, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Hunt
doesn’t represent a big news org.
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on Apr 18, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Wasnt she there on behalf of cbssports.com?
by Papercut Elbow on Apr 18, 2011 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea
but CBSsports.com /= CBS Sports
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on Apr 18, 2011 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
So you think Loretta Hunt will only be covering Bellator and M-1 events now?
Really, unless they go ahead and fire her, she’s still going to be writing the same stories she would have otherwise… now she just has to buy a ticket and do more leg work.
Getting bent out of shape over a fight promoter lying is like getting upset that a hooker won't kiss you. It betrays a deep lack of understanding of the nature of the profession.
Loretta Hunt
And this Spike thing, underscore why Dana just can’t afford to burn bridges. Its just bad business
"Tact is the knack of making a point without making an enemy."
~Sir Isaac Newton~
unless they go ahead and fire her, she’s still going to be writing the same stories she would have otherwise
They can’t fire her …. they never hired her in the first place. Loretta was given a contract to write a freelance article for them. She was never on staff.
I seriously doubt CBS Sports was moved in any way by her being denied.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 18, 2011 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
yea theres plenty of interesting places
its just a question in my eyes of who will give the UFC the freedom they desire. i dont think the UFC would ever be ok with a gus johnson in their broadcasting booth
ESPN would be the dream one in my eyes, sportscenter’s a monster and could sell ppvs up the ass if it wanted too
look at the lebron james decision fiasco, ESPN certainly flexed their promotional muscle with that bad boy
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
ESPN gives its prime time slots to major sports
Maybe like ESpn 2 or something but broadcasting an event for 2.5 hours I dunno. They dedicate a ton of coverage to the 4 major sports plus Nascar and college sports. I cant see ESPN.
espn has plenty of open saturday nights
especially during the summer when the NFL isnt around and neither are any sports playoffs
if they could fit poker in primetime for multi hour blocks, they can fit mma
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
Well just as an example...
This Saturday in Primetime ESPN will have NBA Playoffs Spurs and Grizzlies…without the playoffs though, next Saturday they have women’s college softball…
I think they can make room.
I don't always hope for draft picks, but when I do, I prefer Owen Marecic.
by tito (eight and oh) on Apr 18, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Way more people are interested in watching poker than MMA.
And then God created Saturn ... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
SaberCats Examiner | SB Nation Bay Area | Niners Nation | Twitter
Because I love MMA, yes.
But Poker is wildly compelling to watch.
And then God created Saturn ... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
SaberCats Examiner | SB Nation Bay Area | Niners Nation | Twitter
As much as I love and play poker,
unless its guys I might actually play against, I totally agree with this…
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 18, 2011 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I wnet to Vegas during the WSOP one year.
My buddie was a card head so we went to watch.
Boring
as
fuck.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
Is it fair
to use Cheers and American Idol, both HUGE draws and both on network TV, as a comparison for TUF?
I haven’t been watching as consistently as I used to for a few reasons, one of them being the time slot change. I just got use to the show being on at 10pm ET and to be honest its not exactly appointment viewing. If anything good happens I can catch it on a replay or on their website.
Aside from that I don’t have much interest in any “banter” between Brock and JDS and none of the guys on the show are compelling or even seem like they’ll be good prospects and ultimately I watch(ed) the show for the fights and fighters.
by TMadeBurner on Apr 18, 2011 3:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
They are the network TV equivalents of what TUF is supposed to be for SPIKE. Obviously the scale is very different.
Adam Swift thinks that SPIKE is somehow supposed to be protecting TUF. Instead, because of the money they are outputting, SPIKE is expecting and hoping the UFC stuff to carry some of their other programming. So far, it’s not working.
by Jonathan Snowden on Apr 18, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not sure
he is suggesting that they protect TUF. I think he’s just commenting on what SPIKE is trying to do in order to get TUF at a better price when the contract re-ups.
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on Apr 18, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Devaluing your own assets so you can reacquire them at a lower rate… that would be very “UFC” of them.
Yep
If it works, it’s pretty damn smart too.
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on Apr 18, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
The UFC needs to reinvent itself to avoid Stagnation
The company needs to get away from the Spike TV’s of the world or the THQ’s. These are small distribution groups. UFC also needs to overhaul its production to keep things fresh. They have peaked and it is completely apparent. Use SF as a gateway to Showtime, use VS because they are going to see a bump with the NBC, Comcast merger. Find more outlets and put on more fights with a different view outside of its stale current same old gladiator with terrible armor picking up dirt. Leverage your relationship with ESPN to get a every so often Saturday night of fights. So something UFC don’t just lay there and be happy with your same old numbers.
I am vorn the unspeakable the skulls of those who defy me bleach in the suns of hundreds of worlds...... and you are
you cant expect them to put out for the ufc like coal
Its a debut series and potentially a huge hit like the Ice Road truckers series. It will help make Spike more than just the “UFC CHANNEL”
Perfect timing with the Chilean coal miner situation also
They could really hit big with that show.
Brown Energy is a lightning rod politcal debate
Especially with EPA funding cut and Repubs trying to completely defund it. This show is going to be HUGE especially to kickoff Presidental campain season. This show will highlight horrible healt and enviornmental impacts. In short it will be huge. Cant blame spike for promoting the hell out of it on other networks
UFC makes the show
Maybe it IS the lack of promotion and I’m pretty sure it’s the time slot too cause I just wanna play Marvel vs Capcom 3 at 11 BUT Spike doesn’t make these shows.
GSP as awesome as he is, isn’t giving us anything new and there isn’t any drama or controversy. Jake Shields is a block of wood. As far as TUF, I lost all desire to watch the show especially reading people’s opinions on here. I haven’t kept up with TUF like everyone else as I just joined in for US vs UK but there isn’t any fighters that truely stand out and the key to reality tv is not only the emphasis on characters but the drama and tension between them. And I hear there’s none of that.
HBO 24/7 at least has something different like Caps/Pens Winter Classic series outside of Manny Pacqiauo vs Unqualified (JM Marquez….let them fight dammit!)
They made a video game about Yakuzas. It’s called Yakuza. And it’s about Yakuza
gocyborg.com
this makes sense to me
i think theres a big chance that spike loses the UFC. spikes playing hardball, i dont really think they can afford to lose the UFC at this point, their channel doesnt really have much else
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
Not for nothing but
I dont see that happening. UFC on spike does way better than on Versus. Spike has established its brand.
yea but what if something bigger comes calling?
ESPN could be interesting, NBC and CBS are always options as well
a deal like that might still be a few years in the works, but its obviously the goal of zuffa. they seem to have plateued as far as their growth with spike tv, they had a good run but i feel like the UFC has outgrown the channel and needs something bigger
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
Alot of people believe the SF purchase was made
To get their relationship which with.Showtime/CBS. He and Lorenzo answered that question after the purchase and kind of gave a generic answer leaving the door open. I remember seeing something from Dana basically saying NBC wont happen nor HBO. He’s going to keep Showtime.execs happy if thats the case which means a healthy Strikeforce.
That's less to do with Spike having established it's brand
And more to do with Spike just being in a better slot on the cable lineup.
www.hottopicwithphil.com
Spike came onto the seen with a lot of media.attention
Initially popular lawsuit with Spike Lee over naming rights and had the TUF explosion. Versus, Ion and HDNet are late to the party. He could go there but thats a step down. And what you said is also 100% correct way better spot.
Versus and HDNet
Are on different cable tiers with most providers. They are different kinds of stations with different mandates and broadcasting liscenses, comparing them to Spike which is a basic cable mainstay is like comparing Spike to a major network like NBC, they aren’t playing in the same ball park.
www.hottopicwithphil.com
The biggest thing is that both sides are playing games with each other.
The UFC going to ION for prelims was a power play they hoped would pay off (it didn’t) and Spike is now banking on the ratings to drop when renegotiating with the UFC. The advertisements are already purchased for this season of The Ultimate Fighter so they aren’t losing revenue. But this gamble could be an issue when you figure the 14th season hits this summer and the advertising expectations aren’t the same as they were going into season 13.
The big issue with Primetime is that it’s something we’ve heard before. We’ve heard Georges call his opponents the best challenger yet. We’ve heard the hard sell on the matchup. The reality is that neither Shields nor St. Pierre are compelling for television. The midnight time slot just added to that.
If you want to know what I think go to HeadKickLegend.com
Managing Editor of HeadKickLegend.com
Follow me on twitter @HeadKickLegend
If Men's Health did a special on GSP and Shields as top level athletes
with a focus on their respective training methods, diet (particularly Shields’ veganism in athletics), and overall sporting mentality then I’d watch the shit out of it. But there is not a single thing about GSP or Shields that they can put into a Primetime that will make me think “I really want to see these two guys fight each other!”
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Right...
Neither of those guys are interesting interviews. GSP/Penn was carried by Penn. GSP/Hardy was carried by Hardy. The Rashad/Rampage Primetime was interesting because it was two fighters who are great at talking. Brock/Cain was great because it was viewed as a legitimately even matchup and cause the public never sees any “private” time with Lesnar. GSP/Shields? BOOOOOOOOORING!!!
If you want to know what I think go to HeadKickLegend.com
Managing Editor of HeadKickLegend.com
Follow me on twitter @HeadKickLegend
by Matthew Roth on Apr 18, 2011 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Go outside of MMA even.
Mayweather vs. Mosley is very comparable to this fight. Sure, Mosley is a great fighter and in theory had an avenue to victory, but he was basically made for Floyd to counter and surge against late. It went exactly as it should have. Just like Shields is a great fighter, but if I were going to build a credible fighter who was tailor made to get beat up by GSP he’d look exactly like Jake Shields.
But Mayweather vs. Mosley was fun as hell. The 24/7 wasn’t great by 24/7 standards, but it made me interested in the fight because somebody had personality. Mosley is dry, but Brother Nazim? I can watch that guy forever. And when Mayweather made one of the trainers say “Get off them steroids, Shane!” into the camera in broken English, I wanted nothing more than to see Mosley to hit him square in the goddamn face. Then the fight came and he did.
Shields and GSP have no heat and aren’t very interesting. Neither has a story behind them. Who cares?
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
yea i'm real curious as to how well it does on ppv
there hasnt been a real big card this year, the name gsp sells. but how much? shields is an unknown as are aldo and hominick.
also i feel like everyone thinks gsp is just gonna steamroll shields
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
Couture and Machida
And the spectable of the octagon in front of 55,000 people should more than make up for any unknowns at the top of the card.
And Jake Shields isn’t as much of an unknown as some people may think, keep in mind Jake Shields has fought on some of the most watched cards in the history of the sport.
www.hottopicwithphil.com
GSP is the second overall draw in the UFC, but some of his fights are difficult to sell because how dominant he is at WW and the profile of his opponents. I don’t think too many people bought on Kosheck or Hardy dethroning GSP, but the build-up shows made people interested because of their big mouth and puncher chance.
Shields, on his side, doesn’t present a personality clash for St Pierre, and honestly, looks taylor made for him. Eitherway it is St Pierre fighting for the first time in Toronto and with a possible (though unlikely) superfight on the sight if he does get past Shields. Couture-Machida and Aldo-Hominick can boost it to the 800K
by Carlos Estrada-Ibars Martínez on Apr 19, 2011 5:48 AM EDT up reply actions
"Follow the money"
Is also well known as Deep Throat’s advice to the Washington Post:
Bob Woodward: The story is dry. All we’ve got are pieces. We can’t seem to figure out what the puzzle is supposed to look like. John Mitchell resigns as the head of CREEP, and says that he wants to spend more time with his family. I mean, it sounds like bullshit, we don’t exactly believe that…
Deep Throat: No, heh, but it’s touching. Forget the myths the media’s created about the White House. The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.
Bob Woodward: Hunt’s come in from the cold. Supposedly he’s got a lawyer with $25,000 in a brown paper bag.
Deep Throat: Follow the money.
Bob Woodward: What do you mean? Where?
Deep Throat: Oh, I can’t tell you that.
Bob Woodward: But you could tell me that.
Deep Throat: No, I have to do this my way. You tell me what you know, and I’ll confirm. I’ll keep you in the right direction if I can, but that’s all. Just… follow the money.
█♣█
A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who -- Jay-Z
Follow the money is just a variation of "cui bono"
Which dates back to Lucius Cassius Longinus Ravilla.
by High Knee Destroyer on Apr 18, 2011 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I am the Walrus
Shut the fuck up, Donnie.
http://fightdrinker.blogspot.com
by some schmuck in texas on Apr 18, 2011 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
This sort of situation happened to a degree with Vince McMahon and USA. IIRC, In that case, Vince thought he deserved a lot more than the network was willing to give him (he wanted an ownership stake), and the network started to mess with him and their shows. He walked after getting a monster offer that USA couldn’t possibly match. He made out okay.
The moral of my little story is that the UFC can take their ball somewhere else. Spike might not think so, but they definitely can. The market is there.
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
The WWF had built an empire that had been around for decades
And accepted world wide. UFC has nowhere near that kind of leverage.
It’s “worldwide appeal” (which in reality wasn’t that much higher that point than the UFC’s is now) is completely meaningless to an American-only network. None of the other countries are watching them anyway. The Attitude Era was over and WCW hadn’t been purchased yet. Sure Vince had tons of leverage, but Zuffa’s isn’t that far behind.
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
Well, if you are a television network you might consider that WWE at its peak was doing 5 or 6 times what the UFC does twice a week.
by Jonathan Snowden on Apr 18, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It wasn’t at it’s peak when negotiation time came around though. And Bonnie Hammer didn’t really understand the cyclical nature of the business.
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
The cyclical nature of the business is overstated for TV. WCW Saturday Night did monster ratings for years.
by Jonathan Snowden on Apr 18, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I've always found it interesting
that RAW, and sometimes even Smackdown, absolutely smashes the UFC’s programming in the ratings.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Twitter -- @GenoMrosko
where though?
whose interested and willing to give the UFC the freedom they want?
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
yeah he spoke about hbo/nbc
He also said they want too much control
And who among them would offer better terms than Spike, where UFC is practically the only game in town? Losing that programming would be a disaster for Spike.
Which is why I brought up the example. Everyone said the same about USA as well. They were a lowbrow network offering reruns and useless original shows. They were willing to bow to Vince’s ridiculous demands because of it, but Vince managed to score a cherry deal USA couldn’t possibly match before USA could even give in. There are places that will offer up better deals than Spike does, I can almost guarantee it.
Either way though, Vince took the deal, made 5 years of big cash…and went back to USA. They didn’t collapse when Vince left, and actually managed to thrive enough to get him back, under better terms than they would have in 2000. People are overthinking how tied in Spike is to Zuffa programming.
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
I’m Canadian, so I don’t get stuff like USA or FX, but I’m under the impression USA actually has original programming that people enjoy and will tune into. Can’t say the same about Spike which, aside from UFC and Saturday morning truck infomercials, has the most banal, generic, unwatched programming on TV. They have nothing outside of UFC that even moves the needle.
I’m Canadian as well, but resided in the states for part of the year growing up. USA’s original programming has improved a lot over where it was at in 1999/2000. It did get better numbers than Spike due to it’s history, but WWE was far and away their biggest show and people thought they’d be hooped if they lost it. They didn’t. Granted, they had more money behind them and were in a better position that a post-Zuffa Spike would be, but Spike could survive without them. And I think Zuffa well get better offers than Spike can give them.
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
Coal is going to change that
Those kinds of shows get like 1.5-2 million viewers on average. And that isnt even a debut season. Coal can help spike add way more viewers which also helps.Dana
But the show is absolutely terrible. Coal won’t last a season, mark my words! Swamp People is ten times better and that show is awful too!
If Dana plays his cards right
CBS/Showtime is the obvious choice.
I doubt highly they would be allowed.to produce it
UFC has great production people
Except for that 90’s intro.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Apr 18, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think a great promotional stunt would be to have a contest and let fans submit their own intros. There are some good editing people on youtube that make some killer HL videos
Would be sweet. But Dana is a control freak so I doubt it happens. I bet he thinks its the best intro ever.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Apr 18, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Also it would cost a ton of money to buy broadcast rights to songs people would use.
The UFC already has an amazing intro video with Baba O’riley, but it would be insanely cost prohibitive to get the rights to broadcast it. That’s why it’s only in the arena.
The UFC needs to hire a local Vegas studio musicians to do a groovy, hard rock intro song. WEC’s was great but they need something new. That would actually be really cheap and it makes no sense why they won’t do it besides penny pinching.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Showtime Sports makes UFC’s in-house production look like local access television.
by smoogy2 on Apr 18, 2011 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Considering TUF is supposed to be one of Spike’s flagship shows, moving it an hour ahead on it’s traditional night is hardly the ratings scapegoat people have made it out to be. In fact, the idea was that with Brock Lesnar headlining this season, it should pull ratings only second to the Kimbo Slice season, according to analysts on this site and others. It was allegedly strong programming in a contract year, but as the ratings have proven, nobody cares about Lesnar headlining TUF. Any ratings slip from moving the timeslot is marginal compared to the UFC’s failure to generate new viewers. And TUF has been a poor lead-in for Coal, which did a 0.4 rating for it’s last episode.
No, I don’t think Spike is sabotaging UFC at all… the current state of affairs on Wednesday night (and beyond) for the channel is all about the collective bankruptcy of imagination between Spike and UFC. Their flagship show is so stale, not even birds would eat it. Their “new series” is a rote, generic tough guy reality TV show that doesn’t resonate with the TUF audience. And aside from ancillary UFC content and live events, the rest of their programming is the absolute lowest of the low, bargain bin garbage. But despite Spike’s many failings, Jon is right: TUF is the kind of show that leads in for other programs, not the other way around. And TUF 13 has proven to be a poor lead-in, despite UFC’s cynical effort to boost ratings with their most contrived star topping the bill.
The Countdown time slot was definitely an issue. I didnt even remember to dvr it becuase I didnt see it on the guide before going to bed.
As for TUF. There is an odd issue with Lesnar. I am a huge fan. I will not miss one of his fights, but for some reason I am not really compelled to watch him do much else. I dont reallt care about watching him coach or talk, I just want to see him fight.
So in essence I would pay $45.00 to watch him fight but not tune in to watch him coach for free. Its odd
It's not odd at all.
Brock is an awesome competitor. He’s an amazing athlete, and seeing him do athletic things is so fucking cool. I’ll watch him spar or roll or do drills or lift or do rope work forever since it’s so fantastic. That’s not what you get on TUF13 though. If I wanted to see a backwoods farmer boy say backwoods farmer boy shit to sub-par athletes, I’d sit in on high school wrestling tournaments in Montana.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Apr 18, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
But he’s turning Chicken Sh*t into Chicken Salad, how can’t you watch it?!?! ;]
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
This
is a straight jacking of someone’s sig. And without attribution, to boot.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 18, 2011 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I would be 100% fine with the UFC leaving Spike behind.
If they got on HDNet I would be so happy. (Too bad HDNet is too small)
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
The problem I see with HDNet is that it isn’t carried on TW which eliminates a huge percentage of the viewing audience.
you’re
(lately the grammar police has been out in full force and i dont wanna piss them off, theyre a mean bunch!)
“has been out”? theyre?…truthfully though, fuck ‘em, I’ll back you…
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 18, 2011 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
HDNet also isn’t offered by Cablevision/Optimum.
"Ellismania is, along with the black President, a symbol of the future." - Mayhem Miller
Tweeter!
Don't feel like thinking about how this applies
But I only got in to the UFC when TUF came on after WWE Raw years ago. So I do think lead-ins matter
"Tact is the knack of making a point without making an enemy."
~Sir Isaac Newton~
I wouldn't mind it if Zuffa left SPIKE for a network I had
I only ever watch Spike when there is a UFC Fight Night or TuF Finale or Prelims other than that I do not give a crap about Spike
Twitter @MaZZM
http://mazznettt.blogspot.com/
Time Change can hurt A LOT!
Look at The Jay leno fiasco, they lot a ton of viewers in the mix up
The lives of all of us have been moulded largely by induction through suggestion.
If Brock
Would of went bat shit crazy on the show I’m sure they would get close to Kimbo rating.
Twitter @i_c_u_hater
Http://BBDreaming.com
by Thats It For you! on Apr 18, 2011 4:08 PM EDT reply actions
I thought I read something a week or so ago about UFC fighters doing a bunch of NBC late night talk shows, I wonder if NBC/Comcast is looking at Zuffa programming right now. One thing Comcast does have is deep pockets and lord knows NBC and Versus both are fairly desperate for ratings draws. Isn’t Ion somehow attached to NBC too?
Ion is a paid programming network, and not a serious alternative for the UFC. The stuff you read about NBC was probably this asinine made-up bullshit from Middleeasy, who routinely makes up asinine bullshit.
I thought I saw something about it somewhere else (agree on middleeasy not being a good source for much of anything important). I don’t think any part of NBCUniversal would be a serious alternative but as a whole it might be. A “multi-channel” deal could be interesting (USA network is part of NBCUniversal).
We both hate Middeeasy? It’s like we’re bonding!
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 18, 2011 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re a terrible person.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 18, 2011 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
This is true. You’ve elevated it to an art form. Motivating you to make a .gif of hatred is still in my top 5 moments of blogging.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 18, 2011 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions
There was another smart guy
who said this same thing right after the first episode aired. Mike Fagan.
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
Some weirdo with a beard
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on Apr 18, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Just for fun
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 18, 2011 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
You guys can make it to the conference semis, pat yourselves on the back and call it a day.
You know Luongo’s going to break your heart again.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 18, 2011 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Everyone keeps using the same faulty logic. It wasn’t the 2nd round that they hit a wall against, it was the Hawks. We’re destroying them this year.
The difference is that we don’t have to count on Luongo this year – we have the Soulless Ginger too. We’re good.
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
lol
Glad to see you have such faith in your goalie.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 18, 2011 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Goalies more like it
We have a great backup.
Only team who can compete with us in the West is San Jose and you know they’ll screw up again.
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
We can count on whoever we want
As long as we keep Raffi Torres for garbage time as he’s destined to get suspended again
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
The hit was legal. I don’t know why people have a problem with this.
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
Legal or not the dude can't just hit who he wants
It cost us 2 goals.
He has to know he’s on strict watch.
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
Meh
I want consistent officiating. I don’t think Raffi’s the problem.
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
Tell me about it
Chicago has had way more power plays than we have.
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
Do remember that Spike is a small-fry when it comes to TV networks. They owe much of their rising success to the UFC and the attention it brought to the fledgling network.
That being said though, TUF has been old and boring since TUF 4 or 5. Its the same thing over and over again with the same little guy/girl drama. The whole show needs a revamp
ratings boost
if you want better ratings put Nick Diaz and Diego on the show..2 guys with some character and a little bad blood………..nobody wants to watch 2 cardboard boxes compliment everybody and everything………….let’s all say it together…..DRAMA SELLS
Another thing for primetime is...
… when it aired at a normal time 550K people tuned in to watch it. So people wanted to see it, but weren’t willing to stay up until midnight in order to do so.
how about another comeback show?
most of the fights now are just plain boring………………..guys have limited skills and usually no gas tank maybe some name fighters will pump up ratings……just thinking out loud
Comeback
I really with they would manage another comeback show.
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on Apr 18, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
exciting
at least name fighters usually have some skill and decent cardio ………i mean really how many times can you watch beginners fight before you get bored with it?
I think
the issue is now there are enough viable alternatives for guys who got cut to go with those options instead of do TUF and make peanuts. Add to that, alot of the guys you’d want to see in a new Comeback are held up in contracts elsewhere.
Regardless, they could make it happen if they felt it was worth it.
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on Apr 18, 2011 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
The last thing the UFC and Spike would do
Is take the lowest rated season of TUF and try and duplicate it when you know most of those fighters will just be cut or remain gatekeepers anyway.
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
I don't remember
TUF 4 really did bad in the ratings? I don’t agree with the “cut or gatekeepers” thing, a lot of guys from TUF 4 stuck around for a long time.
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on Apr 18, 2011 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
It had two instances of series-low draws
http://mmaweekly.com/tuf-4-draws-another-series-low-1-0-rating-2
And currently only Rivera, Lytle, and Serra are still in the UFC. And the guys who did stay around immediately after the season ended stagnated (DeWees, Carter, D. Thomas, and Rich Clementi to name a few.
TUF 4 is also famous for the turgid main event of Serra vs. Lytle. At least Serra produced the upset of the year after his Lytle win.
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
Clementi got a raw deal. That’s besides the point, though. The guys in a “Comeback” type show would be vets who, typically, won’t be around as long as new bloods. It’s pretty remarkable as many guys stuck around that did. Cote got a title shot. Lytle was right near one. Din is still a badass. etc.
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on Apr 18, 2011 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Great Points
There are a lot of great points in this thread, but the simple truth is, Spike is now in grow up mode, and simple cannot afford to lose the UFC. The very reason it moved Coal to after TUF is because of its built-in audience lead-in. Remember when Rupert Murdoch paid a record price for NFL in the 90’s? It wasn’t because he is a football fan. I was because he was building a network, and the leadin is essential. Does anyone think The SImpsons would be as big as they are if football wasn’t its lead in? When CBS lost NFL, for the first time in like 30 years, 60 Minutes dropped out of the top 10 rated shows. The point is, Spike will eventually move Coal and whatever loyal audience it achieves, to one of its weaker timeslots, and then continue to launch new franchises after TUF. In short, I don’t think Spike is playing chicken at all. I think they will pay whatever UFC wants because if Coal is a success, they can point directly to TUF as one of those factors. I don’t mean to take anything away from Coal, or the promotion it’s receiving from Spike — because it’s a great show — it’s just that hardly anyone would know that without the lead in. It’s a great move and UFC should see Coal’s success as part of it’s negotiating power.
Only...
isn’t Coal not a success?
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on Apr 18, 2011 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Minor details my friend, minor details…
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 18, 2011 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m sure that the format of TUF could use a little change-up but personally I do think the time slot change hurt them.
American Idol went to Wednesday night for performances instead of Tuesday (wed used to just be results and was over by 9) Now it’s going on til 930 at least with the actual performances. Say what you want about lack of crossover, but I watch idol and so do several other guys I know that watch MMA. Not to mention guys with kids whose families are still up, watching either idol or other shows. Ten was a good time for people to switch over – all the 8-10 primetime shows just go off and kids are in bed.
I think some format changes to the show and better coaches (drama wise) would help as well as just getting their old time slot back.
Both parties are the problem
Spike placing UFC Primetime at Stupid O’Clock will lead to bad ratings especially for an “unknown” like Shields.
The UFC’s programming is stale. I want to see something more than Unleashed and event previews. Fighter profiles would be nice. You know, more of the Jon Jones type of documentaries but for other guys/prospects.
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
There has been talk about the UFC and FX
Fox International can offer a much better deal to the UFC than both MTV and Comcast. FX has potentially much stronger lead ins with Sons of Anarchy, Archer, The League and Big 12, Pac-12 and C-USA college football than Spike and Versus. The UFc is also a much more cost effectiive acquistion than the NFL, MLB or NBA due to the UFC handiling the production side.
http://unintelligentdefense.blogspot.com
Last I checked, Coals viewership numbers were a bit below The Ultimate Fighter’s.
Spike is obviously using TUF as a lead-in for it. The ratings for your lead-in are far more important than the ratings for whatever follows you as a general rule, thus the time switch. The fact is, Spike has had a hard time producing hits, and I guess they thought maybe they could copy the History Channel’s formula here and get their own Ice Road Truckers: a show with solid ratings, that has a lot of replay value, that’s also cheap to produce.
Another reason to do this is so Spike TV can “diversify their assets” so to speak. They’ve historically had a hard time making hits, and the UFC is largely the backbone of their network. I’m sure Spike loves what the UFC has done for their network, and would love to hold onto them, but the more important they are, the more leverage the UFC has in negotiations, and the more fucked Spike is if the UFC leaves for another network. So naturally they want to have more legs to stand on, so using TUF as a lead-in to help establish another hit is important. They could have put Coal at 11 PM but I don’t have to explain why that’s an undesirable timeslot, especially for a show that’s going to trend older than its lead-in, as people are more likely to turn off the tv after 11 PM so they can get enough sleep for work in the morning (this is also why you see a lot more 30-minute shows starting at 11 PM compared to 10 PM).
Make no mistake though, this coming at the expense of TUF. Timeslot switches are problematic in general, but the 10 PM slot in particular is considered less competitive, as Fox and MyNetworkTV don’t provide programming for their affiliates at that hour. So there’s an obvious trade-off which I’m sure they were aware of. As long as Coal succeeds it’s worth it though, right?
Well, that’s up in the air right now. Coal is doing 1.2 million viewers, which is worse than what The Ultimate Fighter is doing despite TUF getting screwed in the timeslot, but better than the 800k or so Spike TV is averaging weekly in primetime as of late. Still, one would hope that a show getting the sweetest timeslot possible (again, 10 PM, following an established anchor show with solid ratings) would yield better dividends. Maybe it’s all okay since Coal is undoubtedly the kind of show that has a lot of replay value as long as it’s watchable in the first place, since you can pick up anywhere in the middle of a docudrama and not have to worry about things like what the plot is or spoilers or already knowing fight results. However, I can see two things they seriously fucked up on:
1) It’s a show about coal mining, which they decided to call Coal. That’s a hella dangerous and demanding profession, so a docudrama show about it might have some potential, but they couldn’t come up with a name that conveys that in the slightest. It’s like if the History Channel had decided to call their show Axe Men, “Wood”, or if Ice Road Truckers was called “Trucks!” (or “Ice!”), or if Deadliest Catch was called “Fish!”. Jesus, have some creativity, it makes the show sound bland as fuck.
2) The Ultimate Fighter, even after all these years, trends young. Docudramas do not. Not as young as The Ultimate Fighter anyway. Generally different audiences in general. This is pretty poor synergy here.
Anyway, I probably wouldn’t have gone with this strategy. They could have held off a few months on Coal and premiered it on a block after Deadliest Warrior, and had two shows that synergized a lot better, even if I suspect Deadliest Warrior still trends younger. But I’m not a tv executive, so whatever.
1) It’s a show about coal mining, which they decided to call Coal. That’s a hella dangerous and demanding profession, so a docudrama show about it might have some potential, but they couldn’t come up with a name that conveys that in the slightest. It’s like if the History Channel had decided to call their show Axe Men, "Wood", or if Ice Road Truckers was called "Trucks!" (or "Ice!"), or if Deadliest Catch was called "Fish!". Jesus, have some creativity, it makes the show sound bland as fuck.
Good point and made me laugh. FISH!
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on Apr 18, 2011 6:21 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
It is slightly less accurate, but as much as no one wants to watch a show called “Fish!”, definitely no one wants to watch a show called “Crabs!”
Actually…
"Ellismania is, along with the black President, a symbol of the future." - Mayhem Miller
Tweeter!
Why cant people just accept it???
UFC is on a major down swing right now. The only real star is GSP… For as dominate as he is, his fights are grind-it-out style and unspectacular.
When was the last time a fight gave you goose bumps as fighters did there walk outs, Michael Buffer was doing his thing etc.?? Liddell vs Ortiz? GSP vs Penn 2? Mir vs Lesnar 2?… UFC hasn’t had this ‘larger than life – im watching history in the making’ moments in a LONG LONG time.
People on this board are wondering why GSP vs Shields is not providing a lot of interest….. GEE I WONDER WHY?? herp derp.
Bring on GSP vs Silva if you want goose bumps, if you want the bright lights of ESPN, if you want history in the making. Dana White is refusing to put his two big $$ earners to work against eachother, something that killed boxing.
It is with great restraint that I say I disagree with everything you just said
And it’s dominant, not dominate.
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
by SSreporters on Apr 18, 2011 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
This.
Fourteen thousand times, this.
"Ellismania is, along with the black President, a symbol of the future." - Mayhem Miller
Tweeter!
When was the last time a fight gave you goose bumps as fighters did there walk outs
The last UFC.
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
I disagree. I didn’t get any goosebumps for the walkouts at the Fight Night. I’d have to go all the way back to Jones vs. Shogun for that. I did get a “holy fucking shit!” moment when the Korean Zombie won with the twister though.
Facts are Facts
Nice try attempting to sound intelligent by pointing out a typo… Not a spelling error… A typographical error, obviously you dont understand the difference.
UFC is not trending upwards as fast as it was 5 years ago, and certainly not headed towards the “biggest sport in the world” claim that DW tried to claim also.
5 years ago, the UFC was competing with other organizations for free agents. Not so much anymore.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 18, 2011 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
The UFC just did a million buy PPV in October
And should be able to do it again on the 30th and possibly 131.
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
UFC hasn’t had this ‘larger than life – im watching history in the making’ moments in a LONG LONG time.
Lesnar vs. Mir II, Lesnar vs. Carwin, Lesnar vs. Cain, Silva vs. Sonnen, Silva vs. Belfort…..but whatever.
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
Facts are Facts
Fact: The UFC has broken its own annual PPV record three years in a row now, and also set a record for most PPVs-per-event last year, despite holding more events than ever. Yeah they’re on a real “major downswing” right now. As for how the UFC is no longer “larger than life”, I’m sorry you can’t tell the difference between facts and opinions.
Post that shit online
UFC/Spike need to start posting their programming online, either through Hulu or Spike’s website. None of my friends orders cable television anymore.
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