Anderson Silva's Manager Declares Him the 'Greatest Fighter of All Time'
by Nate Wilcox on Apr 17, 2011 11:10 PM EDT
in UFC Quotes
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UFC middleweight champion Anderson Silva has assembled an amazing record. Since joining the UFC in 2006 he's reeled off 13 straight wins, 9 of those in title fights. His last loss was a DQ to Yushin Okami in January 2006 at a Rumble on the Rock event. It's hard to argue with Silva's manager Ed Soares when he stakes the following claim to MMA Weekly:
"Anderson always wants to fight the best, and fight the best potential opponents that's going to cement his legacy in this sport.
"What he's done is going to be very difficult for anybody ever to repeat... eight title defenses, 13 consecutive wins in the UFC. I think the way the sport is evolving and how much better these athletes and all these fighters are getting, I think for you to roll off 13 wins consecutively in the UFC is something almost next to impossible.
...
"I really truly believe in my heart that Anderson Silva is the greatest fighter of all time."
Silva will get his chance to avenge his loss to Okami at UFC Rio on August 27.
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Hes right. I dont think anyone will ever do what Silva has done again.
Are our bones not dust?
Is our Blood not Poison?
On my knees in the black light
Praying for Salvation, bitter Redemption
So throw your dice and cast your shadow
You may look away
But your children will not...
He has never "ducked" anyone
There’s literally never been a fighter in his class he’d even think of avoiding, he knows he can beat anyone. He’s so good people want him to move up a weight class to finally lose to someone.
I think the idea of GSP moving up to face him is ridiculous, and it’s a terrible fight for Silva, if he were to lose to a blown up welterweight how scathing would that be to his incredible record? Regardless, he accepts the fight.
He is the GOAT
Of course i’m biased, but speaking objectively as possible, i think it’s GSP.
"Who are you and how the hell did you get in here?"
"I'm a locksmith... and i'm a locksmith."
GSP got finished in a title fight.
that rules him out for now (and his lack of finishes as of late).
by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Apr 17, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Yeah it's hard to give it to a guy who has been finished in two title fights,
over a guy who seems to be able to bend the Matrix.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
by RolloTomasi on Apr 17, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
He BRUTALLY avenged both those losses though.
"Who are you and how the hell did you get in here?"
"I'm a locksmith... and i'm a locksmith."
by Goonisis on Apr 17, 2011 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Silva hasn't had to though.
So he’s #1 and GSP #2
by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Apr 17, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 12 recs
Remind everyone what title that was for again?
PRIDE’s Bullshitweight title, if I recall correctly.
"Unless you can’t think of something intelligent to say, don’t reply and make the world as dumb as you are appearing to be." - mabel4life
by lowellthehammer on Apr 17, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Obviously losing to a journeyman fighter who’s never even come close to a title is less damaging to your legacy than losing a world title fight.
That's Matt "Former Welterweight Champion of the World" Serra, thank you very much
And yeah, losing to Ryo Chonan is seriously worse.
That being said I’d consider both almost flukes, considering the performances of each guy since.
Me too.
Now we agree.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
by RolloTomasi on Apr 18, 2011 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions
you were defending Fedor further down the thread.
You know Andy Silva and Bigfoot Silva aren’t related, so you don’t have to take out your “Fedor losing to a Silva” frustration on Andy.
Andy’s GOAT. Life will go on.
by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Apr 17, 2011 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd give you a cookie...
but you used “your” instead of “you’re”.
Celery stick instead?
by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Apr 17, 2011 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
GRAMMAR OMG!
lol, what a lame game ….
i guess i have to watch out for my punctuation and grammar on these websites so people like you can understand.
by pillowfists on Apr 17, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Or so you don't sound like an idiot.
Of course posting shit from glitterhoney.com isn’t going to help matters.
"Unless you can’t think of something intelligent to say, don’t reply and make the world as dumb as you are appearing to be." - mabel4life
by lowellthehammer on Apr 17, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
youre
on a roll today hammer
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 17, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
seriously
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Apr 17, 2011 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not the grammar
But if you’re going to try and be the “cool” pic posting sarcastic guy, at least try and do it well.
And if you’re claiming Fedor is still GOAT and faced the best fighters MMA had to offer in the last 5 years, well… I don’t man.
by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Apr 17, 2011 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
damn, i see you guys love riding each others nuts
… OH SHIT I DIDNT CAPITALIZE MY D IN DAMN>!$@
by pillowfists on Apr 17, 2011 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
did you read what I said man?
I make tons of grammar mistakes, on this page alone. Chill.
by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Apr 17, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
2 can play that game.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
by RolloTomasi on Apr 17, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I think the fact GSP tapped to Serra’s strikes, make this loss even worse. Silva is GOAT, but GSP still has time to win some impressive fights and claim that title. It’s not like Silva is GOAT and the books closed, it’s an ongoing role. Shit, one of them may grow old real quick and lose some big fights.
As of right now though… Silva > GSP > Fedor all time.
"Expose yourself to your deepest fear; after that, fear has no power, and the fear of freedom shrinks and vanishes. You are free." - Jim Morrison
by LowkickGreed on Apr 17, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
When Anderson is facing defeat in the eye, he gets the other guy to tap. When Georges is facing defeat in the eye he taps.
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
by Neil Manich on Apr 17, 2011 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 9 recs
solid point
this may out and out remove gsp from GOAT contention. the GOAT can never tap to strikes
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 17, 2011 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
the GOAT can never tap to strikes
agreed to the fullest.
Obviously, this is not a universal concept. Many people foolishly state that Shogun is the greatest light heavyweight of all time and we all saw what Bones made him do.
exactly
point being GSP is removed from contention
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 17, 2011 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
what about chuck?
i really respect the fact that chuck went out on his shield fighting the top fighters in the world. i kinda have a sneaking suspicion that fedor will do the same. i think it should go silva, fedor, chuck, gsp. untill gsp can finish some top opponents hes kinda like floyyd mayweather for me. plus….the dude tapped to strikes in a gladiator sport…
by master splinter on Apr 17, 2011 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Did you even watch that fight?
Silva was whoop’in Chonan for the whole fight and then Chonan executive a one in a million move to catch him in that leg lock. It was awesome, but takes nothing away from Andrson Silva.
Matt Janecek
MBA Candidate, 2011
An MBA on MMA: mixed martial arts thru the lens of business
mba-mma.blogspot.com
If that is your defense of Chonan/Silva, I’m curious what you’d say about Sonnen/Silva.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Apr 18, 2011 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Chonan actually landed some
hard low kicks on Anderson throughout, i’m surprised nobody has ever tried to replicate that success at all.
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 18, 2011 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
silva is my favorite fighter/ one of them anyway.
Chonan was winning that fight on points and being asian. Silva got yellow carded for stalling on the ground.
But that was pre-BJJ black belt. So its really not the same guy.
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 18, 2011 1:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
So?
Andy brutally beats them the first time.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
by RolloTomasi on Apr 17, 2011 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Except for Ryo Chonan. Serra and Hughes’ wins are about as relevant to GSP’s greatness as Chonan’s win is to Silva’s imo. Point is in both cases the GSP and Silva are clearly superior to the guys they shouldn’t have lost to.
"Who are you and how the hell did you get in here?"
"I'm a locksmith... and i'm a locksmith."
Andy had a broken ankle in that fight.
If you watch the fight it’s obvious.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
It was the same year GSP lost to Hughes.
"Who are you and how the hell did you get in here?"
"I'm a locksmith... and i'm a locksmith."
Andy GSP got KO'd a few years later.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
by RolloTomasi on Apr 17, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Andy hasn't lost since.
The Okami fight dosen’t count.
You can knee the head of a downed opponent but up kick are illegal? WTF?
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
By a fighter that is much worse then GSP. We can both agree on that much i’m sure? Even the Yankees lose to bad teams. And in MMA, which is such a volatile sport with so many ways to lose, the weight of consistent dominance and superiority is far more telling and valuable then a single and unrepeated instance of failure.
"Who are you and how the hell did you get in here?"
"I'm a locksmith... and i'm a locksmith."
by Goonisis on Apr 17, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Eh, i half typed out a big reply to this, but you’re probably not gonna budge on this and neither would i. We’re at an impasse. Agree to disagree i think.
"Who are you and how the hell did you get in here?"
"I'm a locksmith... and i'm a locksmith."
by Goonisis on Apr 17, 2011 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
not agree to disagree
i love gsp man, but hes not better than silva.
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 17, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
As do I.
GSP is great, but Andy is greater.
that could change in the future.
But right now it’s Andy.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
ok so
if gsp beats andy if they fight., would u consdier gsp the best considering his past?
most likely
there is always the argument that gsp is in his prime, and andy is faded. the true test would be peak against peak. but i would most certainly say that if he beats him the torch has been passed.
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 17, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
If GSP beats Shields and continues to stall on the Andy/GSP super fight
I will never put him over Andy.
If he takes the fight and loses,I could still someday say he’s better (if he earns it with several more years of domination).
Point is, he better not duck Andy.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
i will hold this equally against andy
if people keep clamoring for bones/silva and he ducks. gotta be fair.
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 17, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
IF GSP had Silva's record...
There is no way you’d entertain the idea that Andy was the GOAT over him.
There’s nothing wrong with being #2 when you’re 6 years younger than the guy above you.
by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Apr 17, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Well I could easily retort the injury with...
GSP having just had a close family member die, and going through a complete personal shitstorm with a fully revamped camp.
Ironically, more fighters go into fights with side injuries and manage than fighters who’re getting screwed mentally. Plus, he grew from that fight, something I find endearing and exciting, just as AS grew over his career…. one just started in the UFC earlier.
I actually Consider AS above GSP, and I’m a Canadian lol, but I think it’s stupid to point out those losses as the reason why. There are more valid points imo
by Matty Euripides Castourkas on Apr 17, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
My point is,
he locked an ankle lock ON HIS BROKEN ANKLE.
He tapsimmediately.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
by RolloTomasi on Apr 17, 2011 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He also would have lost a decision.
"Unless you can’t think of something intelligent to say, don’t reply and make the world as dumb as you are appearing to be." - mabel4life
by lowellthehammer on Apr 17, 2011 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Anderson was winning when that happened
Matt Janecek
MBA Candidate, 2011
An MBA on MMA: mixed martial arts thru the lens of business
mba-mma.blogspot.com
Silva has defended 8 times..IN A ROW
with impressive finishes. How is that not more impressive than 4/5 of GSP’’s last fights going to the judges AND getting TKO’d in a title fight MORE RECENTLY than Silva’s own last loss?
I’m asking honestly.
by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Apr 17, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Dancing with the Brazillians
is not to qualify as impressive finishes.
by wrxdonkey on Apr 17, 2011 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
EDIT: some impressive finishes
GSP has his share of snoozers as well so…
I think Silva’s highlight reel is a bit more entertaining than GSP’s at this point.
by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Apr 17, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
do we need to get into this again?
maia didnt deserve to be in that ring, it was vitor that should have been in there. maia had no place standing in the same ring as andy… so he clowned him..unfortunately by doing that he clowned us too
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 17, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
different levels of competition
I would easily say gsp opponents are more talented than silvas opponents. Not to mention pretty much all of them still have jobs with the ufc while silvas opponents have been cut.
Lutter, Leites, and Irvin.
GSP fought plenty of guys who got cut from the UFC.
Jay Hieron
Karo Parisyan
Frank Trigg
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
by RolloTomasi on Apr 17, 2011 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Then there’s Dan Hardy. Who is getting there, you could argue Hughes was getting old by the time he lost, Jason Miller? meh.
"Expose yourself to your deepest fear; after that, fear has no power, and the fear of freedom shrinks and vanishes. You are free." - Jim Morrison
by LowkickGreed on Apr 17, 2011 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Hughes was 33 and Mayhem was 12-3 at that point.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 17, 2011 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions
GSP’s opponents have been top-10, almost all top-5, when he defeated them, and in one of MMA’s two most developed, storied, and deep divisions.
Anderson has stomped a mudhole in the faces of many; however, a good many have been fringe contenders at best, and belongs to quite possibly the weakest division in MMA.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Apr 17, 2011 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
This is it for me. GSP is ruling one of the toughest divisions with ease. Hardy sticks out like a sore thumb because he’s the ONLY one who isn’t at that very top level of competition while Anderson is ruling one of the weakest divisions in MMA. If you give GSP the WW comparison of the skill levels Anderson faces, he’d have more finishes. Not saying Anderson is facing nobodies, just that the guys GSP is facing are just incredible.
Hardcore MMA fan since UFC 99
by ChiCubs23 on Apr 18, 2011 3:41 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Speculation
And conjecture aren’t fact. Silva also defeated a former LHW champ decisively. Anderson has the better resume … Right now. In a few years that can change. The only UFC fight that was even competitive for Silva was Sonnen whom he submitted. At this point with Fedors legacy taking a hit it’s a no brainer … Silva is the top dog of all time. These things change.
by Johnnynumber5 on Apr 18, 2011 12:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Easy, GSP dominates everyone in ever aspect of the fight.
Silva got owed for most of the Sonnen fight (in the striking to boot) and he has danced the night away with Cote, Leties and Maia. Those fights were beyond unimpressive, they were pathetic. GSP brings it ever fight, it’s just that the top WW are harder to finish than the not so well rounded MW’s. Maia=only BJJ, Sonnen= zero sub defense, Marquardt=can’t perform under presser, Belfort = hit and miss mental midget….
Silva has been finished twice
one is a highlight reel for all time
and they happened around the same age that GSP is now.
Silva is #1 MMA fighter of all time, right now. But GSP is 29 right now, if his prime/peak lasts till he is 33 and then he is relevant till 36, he will be the GOAT.
And this is all in the first 25 years of this sport! Who knows what will happen, some sports get their GOAT early, like baseball with Ruth and Mays, others are like Boxing and get them almost a century, Ali, or it can be basketball and the GOAT just retired.
by T.P. Grant on Apr 17, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
That's why I said "for now"
Who knows, Silva is at the end of his career, someone (likely GSP) will make a run at the legacy. GSP can’t be the GOAT while Andy is still winning.
by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Apr 17, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Willie Mays
Played his first game in ‘51. the First MLB came was in 1871 or so……quite a long time. Babe Ruth’s first game was in1914 still 43 years later.
We have a long time before the GOAT discussion is even worth talking about in MMA.
Just one mans opinion.
"There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. ~James Morrow
"There is a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot."-Steven Wright
by F'n Clownshoes on Apr 17, 2011 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I think GOAT in MMA
mean the best fighter we’ve seen up to this point of the sport’s existence. It’s not permanent by any stretch but it’s human nature to say “this person is the best we’ve ever seen” up to this point.
I agree the sport is way to young but no one has a problem calling Fedor GOAT when that’s way more debatable.
by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Apr 17, 2011 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Fedor is the GOAT
You have both GSP and Anderson complaining about moving up a weight class. BJ had no problem testing himself against Machida. Fedor got beat by a giant literally he is a giant. Outweighed by like 60 pounds. I was there live and it looked like a small kid versus a grown up. Anderson weighs around 225 how would he do against the HW division?
by Papercut Elbow on Apr 18, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Anderson weighs around 225
not this rubbish again…
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on Apr 18, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Babe is the sentimental GOAT.
But Ken Griffy Jr. was a greater ball player.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
by RolloTomasi on Apr 17, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
IDK who is the GOAT in MLB, NFL, NBA or NHL is but I just think that those sports are understandable in having the argument. Boxing also, just not MMA…..yet
"There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. ~James Morrow
"There is a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot."-Steven Wright
by F'n Clownshoes on Apr 17, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Call me when Ken Griffy wins 20 games as a pitcher
and is the first player to hit 30, 40, 50, and 60 HR in a season.
BOOSH
Babe Ruth played against an exclusively white roster. Where’s that asterisk? – Daniel Tosh
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 17, 2011 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Dude, don't quote Daniel Tosh like it's something to do
I'M AT THE PIZZA HUT. I'M AT THE TACO BELL. I'M AT THAT COMBINATION PIZZA HUT AND TACO BELL.
by Anthony Pace on Apr 17, 2011 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I felt like I needed to give credit there, but it’s an interesting point.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 17, 2011 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Because
No one had ever considered that before?
by Jonathan Snowden on Apr 18, 2011 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't dislike
I just consider him extremely, extremely overrated.
I'M AT THE PIZZA HUT. I'M AT THE TACO BELL. I'M AT THAT COMBINATION PIZZA HUT AND TACO BELL.
by Anthony Pace on Apr 17, 2011 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions
When I juxtapose his show (which I laught at) and his standup (which I don’t), it just makes me believe it’s mostly a strong writing team, much like with The Soup.
His Twitter feed is usually decent, but there’s no way to certify it’s actually him writing the jokes…
I'M AT THE PIZZA HUT. I'M AT THE TACO BELL. I'M AT THAT COMBINATION PIZZA HUT AND TACO BELL.
by Anthony Pace on Apr 17, 2011 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I like his standup.
Although I haven’t seen his new one, which I heard wasn’t great.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
That may or may not be the only one I’ve actually seen in it’s entirety, aside from youtube clips.
Can we just all agree that Brian Reegan sucks?
I'M AT THE PIZZA HUT. I'M AT THE TACO BELL. I'M AT THAT COMBINATION PIZZA HUT AND TACO BELL.
by Anthony Pace on Apr 17, 2011 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Keep it that way
I'M AT THE PIZZA HUT. I'M AT THE TACO BELL. I'M AT THAT COMBINATION PIZZA HUT AND TACO BELL.
by Anthony Pace on Apr 17, 2011 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions
That Pop-Tart joke made me hate comedy for a while.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 17, 2011 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions
One of the few acts
that puts me in a worse mood than when I started watching. He’s like the Lars von Trier of comedy, except it’s ironic because he’s trying to be positive and elicit laughs.
I'M AT THE PIZZA HUT. I'M AT THE TACO BELL. I'M AT THAT COMBINATION PIZZA HUT AND TACO BELL.
by Anthony Pace on Apr 17, 2011 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions
we agree you have poor taste in stand up.
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 18, 2011 1:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
we agree you have poor taste in stand up.
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Apr 18, 2011 1:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
We can only compare against their peers at the time
Babe and the entire league played against all white people. Griffey and the entire league had the benefit of steroids and greenies.
I love both players.
And Tosh’s first two standups are amazing. His newest one is kinda meh, and his show has gotten kind of meh. He needs to slow down and try harder.
BOOSH
Barry Bonds was clearly better than Griffey even before the juice
And it’s not really all that close.
Not afraid to nitpick
Explain
Because most people would disagree with you. Look at their careers before the 2000s and tell my how Bonds was “clearly” better than the Kid.
I'M AT THE PIZZA HUT. I'M AT THE TACO BELL. I'M AT THAT COMBINATION PIZZA HUT AND TACO BELL.
by Anthony Pace on Apr 17, 2011 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That’s like the first four years of Ken’s career (which was insane). The ability to not shred your hamstrings while yawning is a valuable one when considering who was “better”.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 17, 2011 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Kill me now
Griffey had four years of insane HR production right before the 2000s, then couldn’t walk down the street without getting hurt. Also, Bond’s 3 MVP awards in the 90’s > Griffey’s one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 17, 2011 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions
sure
But Bond’s wasn’t in the same league as Big Hurt, Cal Ripken, and JuanGon, and those are just off the top of my head.
I'M AT THE PIZZA HUT. I'M AT THE TACO BELL. I'M AT THAT COMBINATION PIZZA HUT AND TACO BELL.
by Anthony Pace on Apr 17, 2011 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Pudge, too
I'M AT THE PIZZA HUT. I'M AT THE TACO BELL. I'M AT THAT COMBINATION PIZZA HUT AND TACO BELL.
by Anthony Pace on Apr 17, 2011 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ll always remember that old fat white guy calling JuanGon during his insane year:
“My God! He’s got a hundred [RBI’s] before the All-Star Break!”
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 17, 2011 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Palmeiro had some good years too...
one of the sweetest swings ever. Also before the whole roid incident, criminally underrated as a first baseman in the AL compared to Thome, and Big Hurt, etc.
GreenHouse
Jim Thome was and remains amazing. That Indians team that scored 1,000 runs was absolutely stacked.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Apr 17, 2011 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I'm a baseball stats dork so I'll try not to get too crazy
From 90-99 AVG/OBP/SLG:
Griffey .302/.384/.581
Bonds .302/.434/.602
…and Bonds was in a pitchers park and not the King(homer)dome.
But to go down the list: Bonds made (a lot, lot) fewer outs because he struck out less while walking (a lot) more, hit for more power on a per AB basis, stole (way) more bases at a better percentage…..and had 2 more MVPs if you’re into that sort of thing. The only thing Griffey has on him is 21 extra home runs, and that’s only a result of the Kingdome + Bonds’ more patient approach which made Bonds a much more effective offensive player.
If you know what WAR is we can pretty much just end this: Bonds blasts him out of the water 85 to Griffey’s 65. It’s really not a contest. I loved me some Ken Griffey Jr, but Bonds was an all-timer before the juice and that’s somehow gotten lost in the fray.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Apr 17, 2011 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
It somehow got lost when
his head grew 4 hat sizes in 4 years.
His legacy deserves to be tarnished.
Steroids are one thing, but that man used more ’Roids then Bob Sapp.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
Yeah I guess "somehow" wasn't right
But his pre-2000 career needs to be appreciated for the greatness that it was. Hell even the juiced up Bonds needs to be appreciated, a lot of guys juiced and none of them slugged .800.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Apr 17, 2011 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Griff never juiced.
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by RolloTomasi on Apr 18, 2011 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd bet he did, and I like him and rather dislike Bonds.
And then God created Saturn ... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
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I'm a huge Fangraphs guy
So I’m really glad you brought the bacon on this one, and you get a rec from me. But is there really that great a disparity in the OPS+ between the two of them? And how about WPA? These are factors to consider.
But we do agree that based on Barry’s numbers from pre-2000 alone, he deserves to be in the HOF.
I'M AT THE PIZZA HUT. I'M AT THE TACO BELL. I'M AT THAT COMBINATION PIZZA HUT AND TACO BELL.
by Anthony Pace on Apr 17, 2011 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope
Barry, Manny, Mark, Roger and Sammy can get together and cry on Induction Day from here until eternity.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 17, 2011 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
OPS+: Bonds 179 to Griffey 152
Bonds had a pretty good HOF resume by about 1994.
Not afraid to nitpick
I'd say more around 1997 or so
But it appears Bonds also had about a 10 point advantage in WPA through the first decade of their careers, too
I'M AT THE PIZZA HUT. I'M AT THE TACO BELL. I'M AT THAT COMBINATION PIZZA HUT AND TACO BELL.
by Anthony Pace on Apr 17, 2011 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions
ok ok
it was a spur of the moment metaphor.
my point being is that give a sport at least 50 years before we start debating GOAT and even then keep an open mind.
Anderson Silva is an All-Time Great for sure in this sport, so is GSP. GSP is just 29 and has time, but imagine the debate in 5 years if both GSP and Jones keep winning! And who knows what other super talents might come into the sport.
The same can be said of Jon Jones or Jose Aldo
In terms of eventually being considered the GOAT. Jones has accomplished more at his age than Silva or GSP did.
by Johnnynumber5 on Apr 18, 2011 12:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Strictly speaking that is true, but both GSP and Jones were 12-1, coming into their title winning fight, both were in their 8th UFC fight (and both were at 6-1 in the UFC coming into the fight), and both were within 3 years of their UFC debuts (2 years & 10 months for GSP, 2years & 7months for Jones).
Of course, Jones’ loss was a completely bullshit one (no matter what you say pdl ;p)
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 18, 2011 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Time will tell.
The thing is Anderson showed up to the UFC so late in his career (at 31). GSP has so much time left to build his legacy that it wouldn’t shock me if he surpassed Anderson’s record of title defenses sometime in the future. Statistics aren’t everything though.
"Unless you can’t think of something intelligent to say, don’t reply and make the world as dumb as you are appearing to be." - mabel4life
by lowellthehammer on Apr 17, 2011 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Statistics aren’t everything though.
This
by CaptainKneebar on Apr 17, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Andy then GSP then Fedor
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by RolloTomasi on Apr 17, 2011 3:07 PM EDT reply actions 9 recs
definitely
"Expose yourself to your deepest fear; after that, fear has no power, and the fear of freedom shrinks and vanishes. You are free." - Jim Morrison
by LowkickGreed on Apr 17, 2011 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
but Fedors… just uh starting on his second wind, so lets just wait to close the book on those rankings…
"Expose yourself to your deepest fear; after that, fear has no power, and the fear of freedom shrinks and vanishes. You are free." - Jim Morrison
by LowkickGreed on Apr 17, 2011 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
yep
Are our bones not dust?
Is our Blood not Poison?
On my knees in the black light
Praying for Salvation, bitter Redemption
So throw your dice and cast your shadow
You may look away
But your children will not...
by ProfessorBLove on Apr 17, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty much.
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
tough call
good arguments for both. gsp beat more consistently relevant competition, fedor beat more and for longer… but that first half of the millenium was fucking impressive when it comes to the russain
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 17, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
Gsp got tko’d, plain and simple. Many say it was by a “lucky shot behind the ear”, I dont buy that. Prime Fedor had been rocked on occasion and still destroyed his opponent
Strikeforce in Dallas!!
Salido in Puerto Rico and Shields in Toronto
Zuffa = Halliburton
by DL2kold on Apr 17, 2011 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I agree
Missing some Saku and Frank Shamrock probably.
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
saku is the
MIFOAT
Most interesting Fighte rO fAl lTime.
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by RolloTomasi on Apr 17, 2011 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He took Gracie's rules,
And he beat him. He beat THE Gracie in the Gracie ruleset. He’s a badass.
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Head Kick Legend
No doubt.
But not the GOAT.
Top 10 most influential fighters in MMA history no doubt.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
Looks like
you still don’t know shit about Saku
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on Apr 18, 2011 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Serious Question
What about Rickson Gracie in terms of the GOAT. I feel like he doesn’t get much credit for his ability and resume. If he weren’t so jacked up it’d been Rickson and not Royce as the Gracie name everyone knows.
by Johnnynumber5 on Apr 18, 2011 12:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I am confused
it says he has eight title defenses and thirteen consecutive wins in the ufc. how is this possible? The only other fights I remember not being title fights were against Leban, Griffin, and the sandman.Who were the other 2 against?
Winning the title doesn't count as a defense.
"Unless you can’t think of something intelligent to say, don’t reply and make the world as dumb as you are appearing to be." - mabel4life
by lowellthehammer on Apr 17, 2011 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Some are trying and failing.
archer’d
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 17, 2011 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Archer'd
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
by RolloTomasi on Apr 17, 2011 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
How was I suppose to know
That you’re lactose intolerant?
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 17, 2011 9:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He does.
Other then Hendo for one round and Chael who takes this dude down?
both his sub losses came with him on top.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
The guy won 13 in a row
What else do you want him to do?
I want him to challenge jon jones.
He wont go up in weight but is willing to go down in weight to fight a much smaller GSP? He knows he would lose to jon jones and thinks he could best Gsp.
GSP fought Penn but won't move up to fight Silva.
How the fuck is he any better?
"Unless you can’t think of something intelligent to say, don’t reply and make the world as dumb as you are appearing to be." - mabel4life
by lowellthehammer on Apr 17, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 17 recs
You mean, the former WW champion?
Yeah, they fought at WW….
by mmablitzkrieg on Apr 17, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
The (at the time) reigning LW champion?
Scenario isn’t different, besides the fact that in this case the lighter weight fighter actually took the fight at the higher weight.
"Unless you can’t think of something intelligent to say, don’t reply and make the world as dumb as you are appearing to be." - mabel4life
by lowellthehammer on Apr 17, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, that and BJ was a former WW champion when he fought GSP…
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 17, 2011 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
How many times did he defend that belt again?
He took a one off fight at WW and won, then promptly deserted the UFC. Sorry if I didn’t factor that in to my equation.
"Unless you can’t think of something intelligent to say, don’t reply and make the world as dumb as you are appearing to be." - mabel4life
by lowellthehammer on Apr 17, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
He had more experience at a higher weight class in his little finger than GSP has in his entire body.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 17, 2011 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Correct, if a weird way to put it.
But the point is that this guy is trying to disparage Anderson’s legacy for not going up to fight Jones and being open to fighting GSP, but GSP (his only competitor for this GOAT talk) has a situation that’s analogous – won’t move up to fight the champ at the next weight class but accepted a fight with the champ below him. If it’s a dark mark on one it is for the other as well.
"Unless you can’t think of something intelligent to say, don’t reply and make the world as dumb as you are appearing to be." - mabel4life
by lowellthehammer on Apr 17, 2011 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
lets clear this up.
silva would lose to bones, bones’ strength is silva’s weakness, but in all fairness they are seperated by two weight classes. yes, i said it, two. jones is a monster that cuts to LHW, just like rumble is a monster that cuts to WW when he should be fighting at MW. penn is a natural LW, so lets not act like just because he held the WW strap for half a farts length that hes a WW. we are all smarter than that. i agree that it hurts andys legacy if people want him to fight jones and he doesnt, i said so earlier in this thread. but it is just as bad if not worse if gsp ducks andy. im not stating that part as fact, but more as my opinion of the matter. gsp, is a big WW, andy is an average size MW and small LHW. jones is a fucking huge LHW. hes bigger than most HWs. proof you ask for? glad you asked….
lets look at these monsters lined up…
notice how arlovski is only slightly smaller than bigfoot…. almost the same size… alright, hang onto your hats…
Archer’d
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 17, 2011 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Anyone that beats Matt Hughes during the last decade at 170 (or, frankly, fights Jon Fitch to a draw) is a legit welterweight. Maybe a small welterweight, but a legit one nonetheless.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 17, 2011 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
hes a legit fighter at WW
but hes not a natural WW, agree? just because he found success there doesnt mean he belongs. anyway you look at this the fact remains that JBJ is bigger than most HWs. im not saying i dont enjoy him at LHW, fuck it, i say if you can make the cut, more power too you. personally i love watching him rag doll opponents, and i think he’d do the same to silva. my point is if they do fight, and JBJ does dominate, that doesnt mean that silva isnt the GOAT to me. the guy is a walking highlight reel, hes just frustrating to watch when hes disinterested in the challenge or lack there of , am i right?
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 17, 2011 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
That's fair
I don’t understand the obsession with guys jumping weight classes. Andy doesn’t need to do a Goddamn thing outside of owning 185 to secure his legacy with me.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 17, 2011 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i agree
its all our fault honestly. we need to all shut the fuck up with these ‘super fights’ and enjoy these talented mixed martial artists that are before us, doing what they do and the weights they should be doing it.
cheers.
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 17, 2011 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Word.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 17, 2011 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, sorry bro
What was I thinking, wanting to see the 2 best fighters in the world, who aren’t far apart in size, fight eachother to see how the better man is?
I’m such a fucking idiot for wanting to see that over perfunctory title defenses.
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 17, 2011 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting strawman
No one said you’re a fucking idiot for wanting that fight. Selfish, shortsighted, naive and demanding? Sure. But not a fucking idiot.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 17, 2011 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions
And Derek is the leading authority on being called a fucking idiot.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Apr 17, 2011 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Selfish, shortsighted, naive, and demanding...
hmm. Last time I checked, this was fight sport we were talking about. Literally the entire point of prize fighting is to put together good fights that people want to see.
I’m fine with GSP and Silva fighting Shields and Okami, because they are seriously deserving challengers who have payed their dues and present a tough style matchup for the champions.
However, after those fights, the deserving challengers are few and far between. Doing the Silva/ St. Pierre fight (preferrably at a 5- round catchweight) is not only a huge money matchup and great fight, but also a great way to give the challengers at 185 and 170 time to really solidify a case for a title shot.
They aren’t far apart in weight, either. Are you honestly going to try to say that you wouldn’t be interested in that fight, Subo?
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 17, 2011 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Not particularly.
It just doesn’t do it for me. GSP has never fought above 170, ever, and people are proposing he instantly fights the best 185er in history, who hasn’t lost in years, and took some time off to go to 205 and beat the largest 205 champion in UFC history.
Title contenders are such an organic thing. People didn’t think Marquardt would have any issues with Sonnen, and yet Sonnen turned out to come within 150 seconds of ending Silva’s reign. I’d love love LOVE to see GSP/Fitch 2. It’s not a dream match up of mine. I’d still today rather see Andy/Shogun than Andy/GSP.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 17, 2011 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Just because he hasn't fought above 170
doesn’t mean that the guy would be a fish out of water at a 175 lb. catchweight (which Anderson could make, and has offered to make). If he beats Shields, then he has plenty of time to start lifting heavy and packing on muscle.
Would putting on 5 lbs of muscle really be that out of the question? It would be a great pivot point for him. If Georges decided he liked the extra muscle, and wanted to move up to middleweight full time, then he could. If he didn’t like the way the extra muscle felt, and decided to stay at 170, then he could just as easily focus on cardio and get rid of the muscle.
Anderson is much better suited towards fighting south of 185 than north of it. Jones hasn’t defended his title, and has plenty of guys chomping at the bit to test him. Shogun is slated to rematch Forrest, and there’s no way they would make a Silva/ Rua fight after the way Shogun got clowned. After Okami, the fresh challengers at middleweight are next to nonexistent.
GSP is a pretty big welterweight, Anderson isn’t a huge middleweight. Everyone wants the fight. Where’s the issue? It’s only a problem if you think it’s a bad matchup for one of the fighters, and for some reason are more interested in padding their record than seeing them fight good competition.
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 17, 2011 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not going to ever ask a champion to leave his division/weight to appease me.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 17, 2011 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I'll do it for you.
“Goddamn it Jose Aldo! Will you PLEASE move up to 155 and give us a real P4P LW champ!”
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
Yeah, because those 2 situations are exactly the same.
Aldo has completely cleared out his division of compelling challengers like Anderson and GSP have.
Oh, wait…
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 17, 2011 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I was joking.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
by RolloTomasi on Apr 18, 2011 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions
You talk about weight divisions
like they’re this sacred, hallowed ground that can’t ever be changed. That’s bullshit.
Georges himself has expressed interest in fighting at middleweight. It’s not appeasing us, it’s something that he himself has said. I would rather see the fight as a catchweight, it makes things much easier and shows that the guys aren’t far apart in size. Anderson could make 175. He wouldn’t be more than 5-10 lbs heavier than GSP in the cage.
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 17, 2011 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
anyway you look at this the fact remains that JBJ is bigger than most HWs
Taller than many, longer than all, heavier than almost none, and certainly none of the elite. He has been as heavy as 226 or so in the cage, but more recently has been around 220 in the cage.
Certainly not small, but in no way Alves or Rumble-esque. Sonnen was 207 against Anderson in a MW fight.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 17, 2011 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah,
Jones is a big light heavyweight, but not the biggest ever. He may be tall and long, but his fucking legs are SOOOO skinny. I doubt the guy is much bigger than 220 in the cage, he said himself that he started the camp for Bader at 218.
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 17, 2011 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions
He also said he was 240-ish (Forrest-size) in between bouts.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 17, 2011 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
“between bouts” size means absolutely nothing in terms of what they actually fight at in the cage. Hell, Anderson is supposedly 220+ between fights. Means nothing.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 17, 2011 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions
That doesn't matter.
“Walking around weight” means nothing. If he is a lean 220, then that means he’s eating cheeseburgers and ice cream and walking around a little chubby at 240.
I don’t know if he has the right kind of frame for packing on the size to be a true heavyweight, and i’m definitely interested in seeing him test the waters at heavyweight after a few successful title defenses.
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 17, 2011 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions
wait
are you guys saying bones doesnt have the frame to pack on solid mass to be HW? im sure hed never be 265, but i could see him 240ish
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 17, 2011 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I could see him at 265 someday...
He got a much bigger frame then Brock Lesnar.
He’s taller and has a longer reach.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
by RolloTomasi on Apr 18, 2011 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm saying that we don't know either way. The guy already has a pretty built upper body.
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 18, 2011 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Also that's a really weird picture above
Because Fedor looks about an inch shorter than Bigfoot.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 17, 2011 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
hes slightly closer to the camera than bigfoot
while arlovski is slightly further away than bigfoot, all helping my argument that jonny is a goddamn certifiable monster
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 17, 2011 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
no, but we pick which are pertinent
bj also fought at middleweight and above, does that make it his class? were talking about a guy that wears shoes and jeans to a weigh in for a ww fight and still comes in under.
lets try and keep these candid discussions grounded in reality.
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 17, 2011 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
How is it not pertinent?
BJ Penn is a former champion of the weight class. To win that title he beat a man who was not only considered the best in that weightclass but one of the best fighters in the world period at the time.
So tell me how that’s not pertinent when discussing what kind of challenge BJ Penn represents at 170lbs, regardless of his success at 155.
www.hottopicwithphil.com
Frame
Read further down.
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 17, 2011 10:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Jones in not legitimate yet...he hasn't even defended his belt
GSP however has defended it plenty cleaned out his division even…thats the man to fight.
I’m not resting until I’m officially Anderson Silva status.- Jon "Bones" Jones
Jones isn't legitimate?
At what point does a fighter become “legitimate” then? There must only be like 6 legitimate fighters in the world if Jon Jones isn’t “legitimate”.
www.hottopicwithphil.com
I never said he was invincible
But there is some gray area between that and “legitimate” don’t ya think?
www.hottopicwithphil.com
by Worldisart on Apr 17, 2011 10:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
the funny thing about this statement
is that GSP fans have been claiming for a long time that GSP would own Silva in a fight, but then when GSP starts to back down from such potential fight, they all start saying that “Silva is too big, why doesn’t he go to 205 instead, bla bla bla”, I mean, whatever happened to GSP owning Silva in a fight?
not always will those who dumps on you be your enemies
and not always will those who take you out of shit be your friends
by Orcus on Apr 17, 2011 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Or this one.
:)
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
by RolloTomasi on Apr 17, 2011 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Yep.
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 18, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
damn penn busted him up
i still say penn won the first fight… but im a total damage pride judging kind of guy. take downs in the last minute of a round dont do it for me. i say let them fight, and if you run out of time, just look at which guy looks like he got his ass kicked, because most of the the time THATS THE GUY THAT GOT HIS ASS KICK
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 18, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
ED
past tense fail
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 18, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed
i know its an age old argument, i just wish that we would adopt that form of thinking when it comes to judging. there was something very pure about that. fighter A can hit fight B with 200 pitter patter punches that dont do much damage or leave any marks, while fighter B hits fighter A only 4 times, but fighter A is bleeding all over the place. unified rules fighter A wins…which is bogus. if you look like you lost the fight, you probably lost the fight
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 18, 2011 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I still think
GSP beats Anderson more often than not, and have said so since the pre-Sonnen discussions.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 17, 2011 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions
sure
but you can’t say that talk hasn’t died down quite a bit, specially since GSP has been backing down from a potential fight with Andy.
not always will those who dumps on you be your enemies
and not always will those who take you out of shit be your friends
and pointing to his size
as a reason.
not always will those who dumps on you be your enemies
and not always will those who take you out of shit be your friends
I will always remeber the chael sonnen fight and how close he came to losing.
I think they need to rematch and beat chael convincingly to go down as the best ever,IMO
by #1 piggy on Apr 17, 2011 3:22 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Jon jones would easily beat anderson silva.
by #1 piggy on Apr 17, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Different weight class.
That’s like saying Fedor would smash GSP.
It doesn’t translate.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
by RolloTomasi on Apr 17, 2011 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
um come on silv has fought in that weight class before and is just as big if not bigger than most people at 205
Fedor never fought welter weight before
by #1 piggy on Apr 17, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
so what is your point?
he should get special treatment?
by #1 piggy on Apr 17, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
so u think he shouldnt fight jon jones then because of his age?
by #1 piggy on Apr 17, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think he should retire after the Okami fight.
To be honest.
I don’t want to watch him get old during a fight.
Ali did it, I don’t want it to happen to my Silva.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
Because the asshole wasted my money on showcasing his dancing skills...
it’s exactly what I’d love to see.
by wrxdonkey on Apr 17, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
You should blame the asshole that thought he had the balls to fight Silva and found out he didn’t want to punch him as soon as the cage door closed.
'Ello G'vnor!
by IHateMMA on Apr 17, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
And Brock Lesnar would bull rush
and smother Jon Jones. So is Lesnar the best of all time?
by Henrique on Apr 17, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
hahah
I think jone jones could beat brock.
Dont even get me started on that one.
by #1 piggy on Apr 17, 2011 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Last time someone said they he got laughed off the site.
Seems like he was actually ahead of his time: http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/3/28/1394581/could-jon-jones-beat-brock-lesnar
by High Knee Destroyer on Apr 17, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah that was me.
but then I laughed at everyone when cain actually did beat brock. guess who got the last laugh?
by #1 piggy on Apr 17, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No, he wouldn't.
Jones would throw him if he charged.
by High Knee Destroyer on Apr 17, 2011 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
haha
right.
It’s kinda hard to throw a guy who has 50 pounds on you and knows how to wrestle.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
We don't know how good Jones' wrestling actually is.
It’s entirely possible he could have won Div I. He certainly destroys Div I wrestlers with ease.
by High Knee Destroyer on Apr 17, 2011 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Brock is so much larger.
we’ve never seen Jones fight someone his size/skill level.
Besides I think Reem smashed Jones too.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
maybe
reem has sketchy wrestling
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 17, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
But a killer guard.
He’s got more subs then KO’s for cripes sake.
And he’s a K-1 world champ.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
It doesn't translate to MMA.
At least not consistently.
by wrxdonkey on Apr 17, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
translation to MMA
Good point. SAme thing with BJJ – we’ve all seen inferior BJJ guys tap more experienced ones. Add strikes, and it’s a whole other game.
certified warlord
Except Jones never even had the chance to compete at D-1 despite having the offer
Not afraid to nitpick
Because he knocked up a girl and went into MMA for the money after 2 years at the JUCO
He still would have had 2 years at D-1 and I want to say it was Iowa State who offered him?
Not afraid to nitpick
Worked out pretty well for him.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 17, 2011 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions
That means nothing. Jon is the better wrestler now. Brock’s div 1 career was over a decade ago. Jon switched to MMA, who knows what he would’ve done in div 1, but Matt Hamill and Ryan Bader would probably argue his case.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Apr 17, 2011 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Jones was an NJCAA champion, not D-2.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 17, 2011 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions
1. If they fought, Jones would probably weigh 230 or so.
2. Cain took Brock down pretty easily.
3. Jones would murder destroy him.
by High Knee Destroyer on Apr 17, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Thats exactly what would happen
then a few strikes and the fight would be over
And then he’d grow wings and fly up to heaven and sit at the right hand of God the Father Almighty, from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
"Unless you can’t think of something intelligent to say, don’t reply and make the world as dumb as you are appearing to be." - mabel4life
by lowellthehammer on Apr 17, 2011 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Some people have to learn the hard way. Jones is going to beat everyone for a long time.
by High Knee Destroyer on Apr 17, 2011 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
yup ,
I dont how see how people cant see how good this guy is and he just still learning..
No one is saying Jones is not good
But he shouldn’t even be mentioned in a thread about the Greatest of ALL time.
the only reason I brought it up is because anderson silva doesnt want to fight him
So in my mind he has doubt he could be beaten by jones.
Keep repeating it until you convince yourself.
“Jones can never be defeated. Jones can never be defeated. Jones can never be defeated.”
It’ll just make the breakdown when he does lose even more hilarious. Hope I catch it in the liveblog the day after.
"Unless you can’t think of something intelligent to say, don’t reply and make the world as dumb as you are appearing to be." - mabel4life
by lowellthehammer on Apr 17, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Reminds me more of Machida/GSP back in 2006 hype.
Who can stop him he just has so many tools and he’s so amazing and everyone is scared and nobody can stop him he’s never ever been defeated (except that one time but it was special circumstances so whatever) omgomgomgomgomg
"Unless you can’t think of something intelligent to say, don’t reply and make the world as dumb as you are appearing to be." - mabel4life
by lowellthehammer on Apr 17, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
He will have his Serra moment too at some point.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 17, 2011 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Jon Jones hype reminds me sooo much of Brock Lesnar EVERY CHAMP’S hype SINCE 2006 BECAUSE WE FANS ARE INSANE.
BOOSH
by Farthammer on Apr 17, 2011 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
mmhmm
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 17, 2011 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
just keep telling yourself anderson is the greatest
yet he doesnt want to fight jon jones to hurt his legacy
hmmm
just keep telling yourself andersonGSP is the greatest
yet he doesnt want to fight jon jonesAnderson Silva to hurt his legacy
fixed
by CaptainKneebar on Apr 17, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Remind me of how many times GSP has moved up to MW.
And wait, didn’t he fight Penn at WW? The reigning LW champion?
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
"Unless you can’t think of something intelligent to say, don’t reply and make the world as dumb as you are appearing to be." - mabel4life
by lowellthehammer on Apr 17, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
He can't be defeated right now
In 6 or 7 years, he will be more vulnerable.
by High Knee Destroyer on Apr 17, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
6 or 7?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Fedor was undefeated for 6 years after he won the PRIDE HW title in a notoriously weak division (overall, not in PRIDE) in an earlier time of the sport. You’re insane if you really believe it’s going to take 6 years for someone to beat Jones.
"Unless you can’t think of something intelligent to say, don’t reply and make the world as dumb as you are appearing to be." - mabel4life
by lowellthehammer on Apr 17, 2011 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
At an average of 2 fights per year like GSP has
That’s 12 more fights. If you think Jones can’t win 12 more consecutive fights, you’re insane.
by High Knee Destroyer on Apr 17, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
12 consecutive fights at the UFC level in one of the deepest divisions?
He can, but it’s a loooong shot. Not to mention that GSP takes forever to fight because he makes a ton of money each time he does.
"Unless you can’t think of something intelligent to say, don’t reply and make the world as dumb as you are appearing to be." - mabel4life
by lowellthehammer on Apr 17, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
It would be quite the feat, but I don’t think you have to be insane to think Jones can do it.
by High Knee Destroyer on Apr 17, 2011 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll say it's crazy to expect it.
If it happens great, but to just say “It’s gonna happen.” Screams of MMA newb.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
It's a little early to call Jon Jones the GOAT.
Can we see him defend the belt a few times first?
Who knows? He could have a glass chin. We still don’t know how he reacts to bing in a tough fight. Someday he’ll be in a bad spot, then we’ll see how tough Jones really is.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
Wishful thinking that Jones get Serra'd by Rashad
by Tech Fall 171 on Apr 17, 2011 3:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
My mistake.
I was saying that it was my wishful thinking.
by Tech Fall 171 on Apr 17, 2011 4:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You think he needs to beat Chael convincingly?
He made him tap out in the first match, I don’t know what the hell is more convincing than that.
I'M AT THE PIZZA HUT. I'M AT THE TACO BELL. I'M AT THAT COMBINATION PIZZA HUT AND TACO BELL.
by Anthony Pace on Apr 17, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Lots of guys fight hurt
Can we drop the Anderson was hurt stuff? He won and good on him but he doesn’t get bonus points for doing something plenty of other fighters do.
www.hottopicwithphil.com
all injuries are not created equal
not always will those who dumps on you be your enemies
and not always will those who take you out of shit be your friends
we don't
you can either believe him or not, but to say that most people go in the octagon hurt and that it’s normal and therefore a non-issue is oversimplifying the issue.
not always will those who dumps on you be your enemies
and not always will those who take you out of shit be your friends
I think you’re being a little too protective of your boy here. After every shitty Tito fight, there’s an injury excuse. Now, Andy normally goes in and wins 50-45 decisions or first round pwnages, but in the very first fight where he’s down on the scorecards going into the fifth, he has a rib injury.
Nobody ever enters the cage at 100%.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 17, 2011 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
again
you can either believe him or not, but arguments can obviously be made, specially for him losing the stand up exchange early on the fight and pointing to his rib after the first round. if you want to equate that to Tito’s excuse, be my guest, my only point here is that all injuries are not created the same, having something wrong with your knee for example will have a totally different impact on your fight than something wrong with your shoulders.
also, there’s a big difference between Tito and Andy, Andy at least beats his opponents :p
not always will those who dumps on you be your enemies
and not always will those who take you out of shit be your friends
How in the hell
is making someone tap NOT beating them convincingly???
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on Apr 18, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Honestly, Anderson is the greatest of all-time where he'll be for a while.
GSP is second to Anderson due to his dominance, but I don’t feel he’ll ever surpass Anderson barring a big change.
I can’t remember what GSP used to fight like when he fought aggressively for a finish as it’s been so long. That alone puts him behind Anderson on my list.
A fighter who dominates and finishes has to be held at a higher value than one who dominates to a decision.
by Tech Fall 171 on Apr 17, 2011 3:27 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
A fighter who dominates and finishes has to be held at a higher value than one who dominates to a decision.
Like Silva did against Leites and Maia?
Let’s be honest here. Was anyone complaining when Georges finished 8 of his first 13 fights in the UFC?
Twitter: @FlyByKnite
2 decisions
In 9 title defenses.
Do the math.
by Henrique on Apr 17, 2011 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Georges hasn’t even lost a round since August of 2007. We’re closing in on four years.
I agree that finishing fights matters but doesn’t dominating an opponent for 25 minutes matter close to the same amount?
It’s like saying that Chael Sonnen’s win over Anderson Silva would have been less than Silva’s win over Sonnen.
Twitter: @FlyByKnite
He still won tho....
so it’s more like a bonus.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
by RolloTomasi on Apr 17, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Fanboys = Rational MMA fans?
Don't let my support confuse you, I am in fact a fan of the Giants.
by tito (eight and oh) on Apr 17, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I guess you just can't appreciate shit!
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
by RolloTomasi on Apr 17, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
I’m just arguing that 25 minutes of domination shouldn’t mean less than 1 minute of domination. They’re both domination.
Twitter: @FlyByKnite
Andy has yet to lose in the UFC.
There is nothing you can tell me that would change my mind, and say a guy with two stoppage losses in the UFC is better.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
He's arguing that puppies are indeed cuter than kittens.
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
That the level of dominance is the same. 25 minutes of dominance should mean the same as 1 minute of dominance. A finish helps but shouldn’t 25 minutes of pure domination matter all the same? Silva hasn’t lost in the UFC. That puts him above GSP in terms of the all-time list. No one should refute that. I’m arguing that dominance is dominance no matter how long it lasts.
Twitter: @FlyByKnite
haha it wasn't 25 minutes of pure domination XD
people don’t remember that Anderson was beating him standing in round 3-4 before he got taken down and even dropped chael in round 4
by Mohammedini Hussein on Apr 17, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
no he didn't
he’s knees got buckled but he never hit the ground or fell down. Another misconception about the fight
by Mohammedini Hussein on Apr 17, 2011 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Glove to the canvas is not dropped
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
he didn't touch the canvas
can someone plz pull that gif up
by Mohammedini Hussein on Apr 17, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok?
So ultimately what is you’re point?do you think Andy is over GSP, legacy wise?
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
Yes. I just don’t get how 1 minute of dominance is viewed in higher regard than 25 minutes of dominance. Dominance is dominance. If a guy is beating the living shit out of a guy for 25 minutes he deserves damn near the exact same amount of credit as a guy who knocks a dude out with a front kick to the face in the first 2 minutes.
Twitter: @FlyByKnite
No
Finishing is harder than not finishing.
by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Apr 17, 2011 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
its easy to finish
when your opponents aren’t legit contenders, just the best in the thinnest division.
Like Hendo?
And Forrest?
And Chael?
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
by RolloTomasi on Apr 17, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
don’t bring up chael because he doninated 99% of that fight, forrest is not a legit contender, never will be, hendo is old look how shields controlled him like it was nothing, hendo goes in with his right hand cocked, thats it.
Andy sub'd Chael with broken ribs.
Hendo wan’t old when they fought.
Shields fought him several years later.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
by RolloTomasi on Apr 17, 2011 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
im tired of that excuse
like silva came in to the ring limping or on his death bed, if he was that bad he wouldn’t have fought, unless you think hes really that dumb. Go rewatch the fight and let me know what parts silva wasn’t bouncing around because of these broken ribs, or how they would improve his horrible takedown defense.
Excuse?
Facts.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
by RolloTomasi on Apr 17, 2011 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
like it or not a rematch will happen, it will be a big payday for the ufc, then I wonder what the excuse will be to account for silvas horrible takedown defense.
Pretty sure of yourself.
can I see your cristal ball too?
I need the lotto numbers.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
no crystal ball needed
Sonnen is a wrestler, you really think a “healthy rib” is going to keep sonnen from putting him on his ass?
Old man.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
by RolloTomasi on Apr 17, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
like i said, he fights by just throwing a right hand all fight, don’t try to get rec’s for the gif because it always get them when it posted XD
He has his wrestling and heavy hands
thats not being one dimensional
by Mohammedini Hussein on Apr 17, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
kimbo slice is better off his back
than hendo is
watch the shields fight again maybe, or for the first time. Hendos getting to old, and will loose the belt on his first defense. I’ll see you right back here when it happens.
HE WASN'T OLD WHEN ANDY FOUGHT HIM!
Christ.
The Shields fight was years later.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
Come on now, you have to stop with these excuses, there was only a 2 year difference from the silva fight to the shields fight.
You just said Kimbo is better off his back then Hendo.
You’re clearly trolling.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
You like facts, hendo can’t get off his back, kimbo can’t get off his back. So they are about equal in that department.
Hendo can get off his back.
watch his fight with Rampage.
Kimbo got domintated by nobodies.
Hendo fought Nog at HW and gave him a great fight.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
Clearly this old man is done.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
by RolloTomasi on Apr 17, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I called him one dimensional, you said he was old. A couple comments ago it was decades since he last competed for a title. So let me ask you this, do you think he will successfully defend the title which he earned after a debut loss? Something is not right about that whole situation.
Last i heard hes fighting fedor as well =) Strikeforce wants to keep him around, what better way to do that than to give him a title the way they did with hendo. So how do you think hendo will do there?
Hendo will keep it standing and eventually land a big right.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 17, 2011 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Jake Shields is miles ahead of anyone Kimbo has ever faced.
Can you not see that?
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
has nothing to do with kimbo
You like to post gifs like hendo is unstoppable, i just like to show the parts you’re leaving out.
Yes, because you were acting like it had been years since he fought silva and he was basically wheelchair bound now. I can’t keep doing the back and forth, I know where to find you when these fights happen. So when silva looses and you use the “hes old hes done” excuse i’m giving you time to come up with something better. When hendo looses again in strikeforce, i’ll be right back here, with my crystal ball in hand.
Silva aint gonna lose.
And Hendo could defend that title.
Who’s gonna take it from him in SF?
King Mo?
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
this guy hasn't seen Henderson vs Rampage
Hendo came in to the Shields fight with a bad back and a bad weight cut
by Mohammedini Hussein on Apr 17, 2011 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions
lol
get a new hobby, check your post count on this page alone and reassess your life X_X you and rollo just slapping each other on the ass the whole page XD
holy shit
I left here hours ago and yo’re still here as well? I can’t argue with you, you have more time to put into it than I do _
you're the guy posting glitter pics?
just checking
by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Apr 17, 2011 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
show me where i posted glitter pics? Oh that other wher eyou and rolo are again holding hands arguing your love for silva? Thats not me, you are spending too much time online.
forrest is not a legit contender, never will be
Do you even watch MMA? You are aware that Forrest beat the #1 ranked light heavyweight in back-to-back fights, winning a championship in the process? No, you’re probably not aware of that.
I'M AT THE PIZZA HUT. I'M AT THE TACO BELL. I'M AT THAT COMBINATION PIZZA HUT AND TACO BELL.
by Anthony Pace on Apr 17, 2011 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
fanboys, fanboys and more fanboys
You guys can sit here all day long you and spike and the tons of others trying to defend silva for whatever reason you have, but the more and more you post won’t make him better. FORRESTGRIFFIN WILL NEVER FIGHT FOR A LHW TITLE AGAIN IN HIS CAREER Feel free to quote me on that and throw it in my face if it happens. Like I said when these fights happen i’ll be right here, looking for your name. And waiting for your new batch of excuses.
Seriously
That has absolutely nothing to do with Forrest being a “legit contender”.
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on Apr 18, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
forrest is not a legit contender, never will be,
…. He beat Shogun and Rampage back to back!!
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on Apr 18, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
It's easy not to finish
when you’re scared of getting KO’d again.
GSP, most lose in a rich division, and it shows.
See how dumb that sounds.
by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Apr 17, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
So in other words Jon Fitch is the GOAT
by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Apr 17, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
hell no
you can dominate a soccer game but what matters is the end result. For all that Chael did he couldn’t finish Silva, Silva deserves more praise for what happened during that fight, making a comeback like that is just epic.
not always will those who dumps on you be your enemies
and not always will those who take you out of shit be your friends
by Orcus on Apr 17, 2011 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
and against a roided fighter :p
not always will those who dumps on you be your enemies
and not always will those who take you out of shit be your friends
Whoever takes steroids
Is actually at a disadvantage?
Don't let my support confuse you, I am in fact a fan of the Giants.
by tito (eight and oh) on Apr 17, 2011 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
boom, nailed it
Anderson is a highlight reel of awesomeness as well.
He hasn’t lost in the UFC, undefeated in the UFC and we are talking title defenses, who can make that claim other than Jon Jones, Cain and Phil Davies? (Mind you non of them have had title defenses yet)
Who had the best debut ever?
Best comeback ever?
Well , AS is definitely the best in my books, he is clearly more accomplished than GSP
broken ribs.
Broken during the fight with Sonnen.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 17, 2011 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
naw
he doesn’t hit that hard :p
not always will those who dumps on you be your enemies
and not always will those who take you out of shit be your friends
by Orcus on Apr 17, 2011 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If I had to guess I would suspect it happened during a hard takedown, where he landed just wrong.
Anderson came into the fight with a soft tissue injury of the rib cage. Annoyingly painful, but certainly nothing that would affect the performance of an experienced, elite fighter such as Anderson.
Normally a fighter in such a situation (where he was in pain from the injury, but at no risk of further injuring himself) would get a shot of Lidocaine or a similar local anesthetic immediately pre-fight in that area.
I don’t have access to the fight footage at the moment, but I believe it was in the first where the new injury occurred (the cracked ribs).
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 18, 2011 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Silva said in the post fight interview that he did it the week before the fight.
His doc said “Don’t fight Andy, you fucked up son!”
And Andy said. “Psssh, bitch please, I’m NEO homie.”
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
There is so much misinformation and disinformation about Anderson's ribs...
Regarding the prefight soft tissue injury, Ed Soares said:
It was really close because the doctors didn’t want him to fight. He hurt his rib last Friday in sparring. He hurt it, but he didn’t think it was hurt that bad and then Sunday morning, I had about 13 missed calls in a matter of 25 minutes. They were all from Anderson and he was calling me to tell me he was in pain. He couldn’t breathe. I took him to the hospital and they X-Rayed each rib and they noticed that it was a bit swollen, but there was no fracture. They said it was bruised ribs, but the way he reacted when they touched it and how tender they were, they said it was in the muscle as well as the bruise. I’m not a doctor, but this is just what they told us. They prescribed some Ibuprofen 800 for him because it was so close to the fight, they couldn’t do any Vicodin.
Regarding the fractured rib received in R1…from Fighters Only
Anderson Silva’s jiu jitsu coach says his fighter came back to his corner after the first round complaining of a "broken rib". Ramon Lemos also told Tatame that he does not expect Anderson to return to fighting until around March 2011.
“After the first round he said he broke his ribs. He said told me he could not breath because of the rib. I told him to forget the rib and work the movement of legs and he would get the triangle… After the fight he went to the hospital and did an x-ray and the doctor said he did not break it, it was just a crack," he said.
These 2 sections are contiguous in the original article but the blockquote function will not show them that way unless I do them without a blank line between them…
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 18, 2011 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions
the thing is that there are different people involved with those answers
that’s mainly why you have contradictions, on top of that you have the language barrier. Anderson’s bjj coach might not know how to say ‘cracked’ for example and will instead use the word ‘broken’ instead. what I would suggest is going by what Anderson has said himself, and he’s been pretty consistent in saying that it was a cracked rib, though his story does change from after the fight until the press conference, after the fight I believe he said he cracked it a few weeks back and during the press conference he said he cracked it a ‘week ago’ (I’m going from memory so I could be wrong, but whatever it is that he said I do remember that the time line was contradictory).
not always will those who dumps on you be your enemies
and not always will those who take you out of shit be your friends
Silva has never lost his title
it is what it is.
Georges has plenty of time to match Silva’s legacy, he’s just not there yet.
by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Apr 17, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Steroids
The win would be overtuned. There’s that.
I’m talking about the circumstances surrounding the fight. I’m talking about the fight itself.
Twitter: @FlyByKnite
Steroids help
You can’t judge that fighting without remembering that one of the fighters was full of juice.
Did the steroids even help him? That’s the real question.
Twitter: @FlyByKnite
by FlyByKnight on Apr 17, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
We truly don’t know if the steroids even helped him at all. It’s hard to prove.
Twitter: @FlyByKnite
by FlyByKnight on Apr 17, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You're kind of being an apologist
Just sayin
by CaptainKneebar on Apr 17, 2011 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m being a realist. I’m asking a legitimate question. Did the steroids even really help him?
Twitter: @FlyByKnite
by FlyByKnight on Apr 17, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well a whole generation of baseball
Wouldn’t have taken performance enhancers if they didn’t help
by CaptainKneebar on Apr 17, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmm lets see...
David Eckstein… tiny dude, sacrifices his body, 162 game season…maybe i’ll use that magic elixir to recover a little faster…
by CaptainKneebar on Apr 17, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
While also allowing him to have a long and successful career
This is getting waaaaaayyyyy off topic though so agree to disagree
by CaptainKneebar on Apr 17, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you for real?
Steroid are a huge advantage.
I’ve never heard anyone dispute that.
crazy.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
Word
Just ask all those balls Bond deposited into McCovey Cove
by CaptainKneebar on Apr 17, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
has GSP been knocked the eff out and submitted in a UFC title fight.
Yes.
Has Silva?
No.
/facts
by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Apr 17, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m speaking the truth. Deal with it.
Twitter: @FlyByKnite
by FlyByKnight on Apr 17, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What's your point?
That GSP is GOAT over Andy? Are you somehow trying to twist and bend this into reality?
Explain how an undefeated in the UFC fighter and 8 time consec. belt holder doesn’t get the nod?
If we’re talking domination, compare GSP and Andy’s Highlights and LOWLIGHTS. They don’t compare.
sorry.
by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Apr 17, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
The steroids didn't help him...
says the guy claiming to speak the truth.
by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Apr 17, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
A substance is banned because it gives an unfair advantage
Then a fighters takes that banned substance. To gain an advantage.
Come on.
by Henrique on Apr 17, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
GUYS GUYS GUYS...
Chael’s nuts are small and he needs the juice. It’s cool, ask Keith over at the NSAC.
He outmuscled Andy to the floor
I heard steroids help with muscle growth….
You’re acting like Silva hasn’t been taken down before.
Twitter: @FlyByKnite
by FlyByKnight on Apr 17, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You CAN say that because it was.
Chael “dominated” 27.5 minutes in that fight.
Anderson “dominated” 10 seconds.
Look at who won.
by Tech Fall 171 on Apr 17, 2011 3:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Would Chael’s victory over Anderson mean less as a 25-minute schooling or more as a 10-second stoppage?
Twitter: @FlyByKnite
The quicker you can get the job done, the better
I’ll commend you more for a 10 second victory than a 25 minute one.
by Tech Fall 171 on Apr 17, 2011 3:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
SILVA hasn't lost in 5 years. We've never seen him lose in the UFC.
Nuff said.
by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Apr 17, 2011 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
GSP has 18 fights in the UFC. Anderson has 13.
He also fights in a deeper division.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Silva is older...
And finishes (correction: FINISHING) fights. So it kinda evens out.
by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Apr 17, 2011 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Bigger guys finish easier.
But aside from that, not finishing an opponent is a silly metric when referring to GSP’s career. Was his win over Miller unimpressive just because he didn’t get the stoppage, even though it was as competitive as an ocelot vs. a ball of yarn? Or the fact that Santa Claus was willing to let Koscheck lose months of his career due to severe injury instead of protecting the safety of a fighter with a broken face?
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
It's certainly not silly
When you’re comparing him to a guy who finishes in amazing fashion. I have a post at the bottom that talks about this further (don’t want to double post).
Regardless, GSP has lost the title 2X, once tapping to strikes. Winning — and how you win, matters to most. Losing — and how you lose, also matters.
I don’t know what else Silva has to do to earn GOAT since even beating GSP wouldn’t matter. I like both equally I just don’t get how GSP gets the edge at this time.
by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Apr 17, 2011 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Win Silva finishes...
it’s cause he’s bigger and he’s competition wasn’t that good.
When GSP doesn’t finish it’s because he’s smaller and the guys are better… despite the fact that they’ve all been finished before.
Maybe people should consider that SIlva really is that good OR that GSP doesn’t want to go for the finish. Both of those seem far more likely to me.
by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Apr 17, 2011 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Anderson lost by stoppage twice too.
Both submissions, plus a decision loss to kick off his career. I don’t understand why people are only counting UFC fights like losing in PRIDE doesn’t matter because… I don’t know why?
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Anderson Silva was also TKOed in his pro boxing debut! ;)
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
Has Silva defended his belt with an iron fist?
That’s all that really matters.
by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Apr 17, 2011 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
despite the fact that they’ve all been finished before
good point, never thought about that. GSP also finished 10 and decisioned only three fights pre-Serra loss, and only finished 3 and decisioned 5 since. so much for bigger guys finish easier.
not always will those who dumps on you be your enemies
and not always will those who take you out of shit be your friends
But his competition was so good that...
they only allow him to dominate every minute — but not finish. I don’t know why?
Ask BJ, Alves and Matt Hughes if being smaller means you can’t finish.
by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Apr 17, 2011 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Ocelot v ball of yarn
Ball of yarn after the fight: “I got my ass whupped”
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 17, 2011 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair
Silva was a PRIDE veteran when that was the place to be…
I'M AT THE PIZZA HUT. I'M AT THE TACO BELL. I'M AT THAT COMBINATION PIZZA HUT AND TACO BELL.
by Anthony Pace on Apr 17, 2011 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I was arguing within his ridiculous rules
which said that only UFC title fights matter at all, which excludes Andersons 3-2 PRIDE record. Interestingly enough, if you combine PRIDE and UFC records, Anderson and GSP are an equal 16-2 if my memory/math is correct.
GSP’s losses were in title fights though against the best WW to live (besides GSP himself) and a title challenger, so he’s obviously inferior in the mind of Wavy Crocket. It’s news to me that losing to Hughes and Serra is worse than losing to Chonan and Takase.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
that's DR. Wavy Crockett to you :)
In any case, what are your “non ridiculous” rules? They’ve both got the belt, Silva just never lost it, and has a longer streak, more defenses, never tapped to strikes and wins in more convincing fashion.
What say you p?
by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Apr 17, 2011 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions
“inferior” is a relative term when debating #1 and #2 btw. I
If a win is a win, and it doesn’t matter how — as you propose — then a loss is a loss, then let’s just look at who lost most recently. IMO to ignore HOW a person wins is foolish.
by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Apr 17, 2011 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Barring those two fights, the guy gets the job done.
And he has consistently finished his opponents, fight after fight, time after time.
GSP, beating a dead horse here, has gotten much too conservative since the Serra loss. Other than Serra, I can’t recall him finishing a fight since then [going off the top of my head].
by Tech Fall 171 on Apr 17, 2011 3:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Bj's corner threw in the towel in between round 4 and 5 cuz of Bj being completely gassed out and had lost every round
not really a finish. More of Bj’s conditioning
by Mohammedini Hussein on Apr 17, 2011 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
So does Anderson get credit for a finish over Cote by him blowing out his knee?
by Tech Fall 171 on Apr 17, 2011 3:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That's not the same argument and you know it
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
I wish people would stop pretending Silva did nothing to Cote
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
by SSreporters on Apr 17, 2011 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He landed 11 leg kicks in that fight. He wasn’t going all Pat Barry on his legs.
Not to mention that Cote blew out his knee while planting to throw something. It wasn’t like Silva kicked it out underneath him and caused it.
Twitter: @FlyByKnite
by FlyByKnight on Apr 17, 2011 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
BJ got his ass kicked. The corner stopped it because he got his ass kicked.
Therefore, GSP finished him.
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
Quitting on your school is essentially the same thing as tapping to strikes – simply giving up.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 18, 2011 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Ha! That is what I get,
for posting sick and buzzed…
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 18, 2011 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions
more like the greatest mixed martial artist the sport has ever produced …. and the way he dominated the sport for the almost 10 years is something that we will probably never see again.
by pillowfists on Apr 17, 2011 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
especially
against the upper tier of compitition hes been fighitng for the past 5 years.
by barzillatron on Apr 17, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
and lets not forget...
fedor beat the man who beat jose canseco!
by barzillatron on Apr 17, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
OMFG
Here we go again with someone claiming that Fedor has been unstoppable for 10 Years. To bad as soon as he tried fighting someone like AA he got pressured and didnt look to hot till that KO. Same thing with Rodgers. Then he fights Werdum and gets subed. Some call it a fluke, then he fights some slightly less skilled in Silva and Gets destroyed.
Jules: Normally, both your asses would be dead as fucking fried chicken, but you happen to pull this shit while I'm in a transitional period so I don't wanna kill you, I wanna help you. But I can't give you this case, it don't belong to me. Besides, I've already been through too much shit this morning over this case to hand it over to your dumb ass.
Too bad that he "didn't look hot" for literally 7 seconds before the KO.
Too bad he won the first round against Rogers. But don’t let facts get in the way of tearing down the career of an MMA legend simply because he never fought for your favorite acronym.
"Unless you can’t think of something intelligent to say, don’t reply and make the world as dumb as you are appearing to be." - mabel4life
by lowellthehammer on Apr 17, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Antonio Silva would fuck up everyone in the UFC’s heavy division. Cain would have issues taking that kind of a guy down, and if he did that’s a heavy guy with real ground skills to pound out. That guys 290 and Fedor is 230 come fight night. That’s 60 fuckin pounds… it’s huge. Fedor can only do stuff like that for a while. In his 20’s he was a stronger and better fighter, no one is going to argue that. You’re like that guy who tries to argue that Kobe is better than Jordan and then brings up his games with the Wizards.
It’s not that Fedor is 34, it’s that for 10 years in the fight game he’s been punched, kicked, cut numerous times, I wouldn’t want to be that guy waking up in the morning. He is probably sore all over. In fighting years the guys getting to retirement age.
"Expose yourself to your deepest fear; after that, fear has no power, and the fear of freedom shrinks and vanishes. You are free." - Jim Morrison
by LowkickGreed on Apr 17, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Reem can and will smash Bigfoot.
I mean c’mon Mike Kyle almost KO’d him a few months back.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
Yeah, Reems a monster as well. My whole rant is basically saying… Antonio Silva ain’t no bitch. Kyle can punch, that fight showed me Silva has heart and can come back from a nasty shot like that.
"Expose yourself to your deepest fear; after that, fear has no power, and the fear of freedom shrinks and vanishes. You are free." - Jim Morrison
by LowkickGreed on Apr 17, 2011 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Bigfoot is tough to be sure, but I would take Overeem, Cain, JDS and Carwin over him, maybe Lesnar too.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 18, 2011 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions
oh yea...
… cuz we all know how much of can Sylvia, Arloski and Brett Rogers were at the times he fought them, right?
im sure beating Herring, a heavyweight Couture and the human punching bag that is Frank Mir is alot more impressive, right? lol
its called....
revisionist history. thats what we do. sylvia is a can, arloski gets ktfo if you look at him hard enough, and rogers is on a impressive streak right now also. so yes they are. he could of been fighting lesnar, cain, and jds.
by barzillatron on Apr 17, 2011 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
once again...
you are using the phrase “at that time”. we are pass that time. we are living in the now. try using an agrument and dont use that phrase.
by barzillatron on Apr 17, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
i was referring to the “especially
against the upper tier of compitition hes been fighitng for the past 5 years.” response
… those guys were all ranked at the time, so that seems like somehting pretty stupid to say, dosnt matter what Arlovsky, Sylvia and Rogers are doing right now, at the time they were all ranked in the top 10/
there you go again....
at the time. yes it does matter what those fighters are doing today. its what the BCS does for college football. its what the NCAA does when picking teams for the basketball tourney. they look at your competion that you went against and then looked how they did after your fight. idk if you pay attention to any of those sports so if you dont sorry for the analogy.
by barzillatron on Apr 17, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
ok you win...
Fedor has fought nothing the best fighters his whole career.
by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Apr 17, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
wait you don't have Rogers, Werdum, Hong man, and Bigfoot on your
all time great Heavyweights list? What is wrong with you sir?
by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Apr 17, 2011 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
IMO
i think his last relevant win was against cro-cop in 2005. you cant be the greatest ever if your most relevant win is 6 years ago. once again thats my opinion.
by barzillatron on Apr 17, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Since when were any of these guys top five, I dont even recall the last time AA was top ten.
Jules: Normally, both your asses would be dead as fucking fried chicken, but you happen to pull this shit while I'm in a transitional period so I don't wanna kill you, I wanna help you. But I can't give you this case, it don't belong to me. Besides, I've already been through too much shit this morning over this case to hand it over to your dumb ass.
Ya
I just checked that, kind of surprised me.
Jules: Normally, both your asses would be dead as fucking fried chicken, but you happen to pull this shit while I'm in a transitional period so I don't wanna kill you, I wanna help you. But I can't give you this case, it don't belong to me. Besides, I've already been through too much shit this morning over this case to hand it over to your dumb ass.
I agree, not sure if that is scary or sad.
Jules: Normally, both your asses would be dead as fucking fried chicken, but you happen to pull this shit while I'm in a transitional period so I don't wanna kill you, I wanna help you. But I can't give you this case, it don't belong to me. Besides, I've already been through too much shit this morning over this case to hand it over to your dumb ass.
Nice
Jules: Normally, both your asses would be dead as fucking fried chicken, but you happen to pull this shit while I'm in a transitional period so I don't wanna kill you, I wanna help you. But I can't give you this case, it don't belong to me. Besides, I've already been through too much shit this morning over this case to hand it over to your dumb ass.
I just checked that, kind of surprised me.
Clearly not, since AA was still top-10 at least as recently as October 2009, months after losing to Rogers.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 18, 2011 1:56 AM EDT up reply actions
All from the Bloody Elbow Consensus MMA rankings, although not so simple to fing since the "older" button hasn't worked in forever, but...
June 2008 (just before July 19 2008 fight against Tim Sylvia), per bloody elbow meta-rankings, Sylvia was consensus #5 HW.
January 11, 2009 (just before January 24, 2009 fight against Andrei Arlovski), Arlovski was the consensus #2 HW (and Sylvia was still #8, after losing to Fedor 6 months before).
October 29, 2009 (just before November 07, 2009 fight against Brett Rogers), Rogers was the consensus #8 HW (and Arlovski was still #10 at this point).
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 18, 2011 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions
What the shit?
Arlovski was #2 in January 2009, just prior to fighting Fedor, and was still #10 in October 2009, months after getting KTFO by Rogers.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 18, 2011 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions
LOL who the hell thought Rogers was good?
Fedor in SF for how many years and never fights Overeem? I love it.
by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Apr 17, 2011 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
THANK YOU!!
Who the hell tells that champ that he needs to earn the right to fight me. AKA I am not fighting you cause I dont want my ass BEAT!!!!!
Jules: Normally, both your asses would be dead as fucking fried chicken, but you happen to pull this shit while I'm in a transitional period so I don't wanna kill you, I wanna help you. But I can't give you this case, it don't belong to me. Besides, I've already been through too much shit this morning over this case to hand it over to your dumb ass.
Damn right!
Doesn’t cut weight and just goes out and fucks everyone up … and goes for the finish every fucking time!
…Menshealth? Really?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 17, 2011 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I can see arguments to change around the 1-2 rankings of GSP and Silva
Fact of the matter is Anderson Silva has been in danger of losing a fight only one time in his UFC career, whereas GSP has actually lost twice, but hasn’t come close to defeat in four years.
Based on this, I’d say Andy #1 and GSP #2.
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
Agree on all accounts.
Dont see how people think GSP is the GOAT. In the future he might be, but right now he is number two.
Jules: Normally, both your asses would be dead as fucking fried chicken, but you happen to pull this shit while I'm in a transitional period so I don't wanna kill you, I wanna help you. But I can't give you this case, it don't belong to me. Besides, I've already been through too much shit this morning over this case to hand it over to your dumb ass.
I can see why people think GSP is the GOAT
Because I think he’s beaten better competition, but he’s also lost in the UFC before.
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
That is why I said in time he could be.
GSP has fought better competition back to back then any champ UFC history (Yes I just said that.) If he destroy Jake, and most likely Nick Diaz soon after and gets around two more Defenses and possibly move to MW when Silva retires he could be replace Silva as GOAT.
Jules: Normally, both your asses would be dead as fucking fried chicken, but you happen to pull this shit while I'm in a transitional period so I don't wanna kill you, I wanna help you. But I can't give you this case, it don't belong to me. Besides, I've already been through too much shit this morning over this case to hand it over to your dumb ass.
I dont think he's beaten better competition..
AS fought Forrest (former UFC LHW champ), Vitor, Chael, Nate, Rich Franklin x 2, Hendo..
GSP has beaten Kos x2, Pennx2, Fitch, Alves, Hughes x2. Hard to say which is better.
Jules: Normally, both your asses would be dead as fucking fried chicken, but you happen to pull this shit while I'm in a transitional period so I don't wanna kill you, I wanna help you. But I can't give you this case, it don't belong to me. Besides, I've already been through too much shit this morning over this case to hand it over to your dumb ass.
its already been said...
but i think when your talking greatest ever you have to add in finishes.
by barzillatron on Apr 17, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
HMMMMMMMMM
I dont think GSP not finishing hurts him because He manhandled these guys. But Silva Finishing people in spectacular fashion helps him out ALOT!!!!
Jules: Normally, both your asses would be dead as fucking fried chicken, but you happen to pull this shit while I'm in a transitional period so I don't wanna kill you, I wanna help you. But I can't give you this case, it don't belong to me. Besides, I've already been through too much shit this morning over this case to hand it over to your dumb ass.
people who are arguing that gsp is #1
it would really help your argument if he beats shields, that hasnt happened yet and shields is no slouch
i have...
shields winning the fight if he doesnt have any stamina issues this fight. bottom line is if shields wants you on the ground you will eventually be planted on your bottom.
by barzillatron on Apr 17, 2011 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
well...
i agree the spectacular finishes helps but i belive it does hurt GSP. he hasnt lost a round in a long long time. thats very impressive but if your dominating your opponents that much then theoretically he should be able too finish them. now of course it would be stupid to think every one of those fights should of been finished. Its more of a fact that he doesnt even try to finish (in most of his recent fights). ill use the recent kos fight. the fight should of been stopped imo but it wasnt. so instead of GSP going for a finish against a 1 eyed opponent he stayed at range and kept on jabbing. its GSP job to win fights so kudos to him. At the end of the day though its entertainment and its like the same old record when he fights now. sorry fr the lenght but i was on a roll!
by barzillatron on Apr 17, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
i think..
a lot of people will remeber what hes done. i mean its not everyday someone had that type of win streak.
by barzillatron on Apr 17, 2011 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Well
Once Zuffa erases him from history you’re probably right.
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
Hasn't Saku been through enough? And now you want to take this from him?
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
Not even close to Saku
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
by Neil Manich on Apr 17, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He won the SAKU Belt
Which is all that matters.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 17, 2011 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Belts aren't really important when contextualizing a career like Saku's.
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
Giving Saku shit for not getting a belt implies somehow that he was fighting people his size on a consistent basis, which is just silly.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 17, 2011 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not giving him shit.
He’s a legend.
But just like Royce isn’t the GOAT nither is Saku.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
Well, Royce has an almost nonexistent claim, since he lost to Saku and all.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Apr 17, 2011 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
With roids
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Apr 17, 2011 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
If you scroll up you'll see someone arguing that roids hurt your performance.
For real.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
I think it is.
How else do you measure a fighters carrer?
He fought wand 3 times and lost all 3.
That matters.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
Because Wandy and Saku belong in the same weight class, amirite?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Apr 17, 2011 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
No
Because Saku beat him
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Apr 17, 2011 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, there's the whole steroids defense
But bigger than that, winning by UD in a timed match is nowhere near as badass as making a Gracie quit on his stool.
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Head Kick Legend
by Neil Manich on Apr 17, 2011 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wand was massive compared to him
GSP would get destroyed by Jon Jones too don’t you think? Overeem is a pretty tough fight for Anderson no?
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Head Kick Legend
I don't disagree with Anderson being the number one
Just arguing for Saku because he’s Saku.
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Head Kick Legend
Sakuraba is Saku.
Any attempt to describe him beyond that is an insult to him and a fundamental misuse of language.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Exactly
Saku and Minowaman, while very different levels of awesome, are in categories of their own, not defined by the usual BS metrics…
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 18, 2011 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions
MOST BADASS PICTURE IN MMA HISTORY
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by RolloTomasi on Apr 18, 2011 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions
If Shields beats GSP, you have to start looking at Shields in this conversation.
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by Derek Suboticki on Apr 17, 2011 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
he'd have to defend the title a few times
if he beats gsp, fitch, and then another tough guy in the division like thiago alves he’d certainly be in the conversation
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
true but,
He’s already got alot of solid wins on his resume.
Okami
Condit
Miller
Hendo
GSP (if he’s a goat canidate)
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
If Shields beats GSP, you have to start looking at Shields in this conversation.
If Shields beats GSP, he needs to be allowed to fight Anderson like he wanted when he came to the UFC, to resolve the question.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 18, 2011 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Gotta agree with Ed on this one. Anderson is the greatest. GSP will have to extend his winning streak for 4-5 fights after Andy loses or retires, and he’s gotta start finishing people regularly.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Apr 17, 2011 5:20 PM EDT reply actions
"Anderson silva wants to fight the best fighters"
“Anderson Silva will not fight Jon Jones”
hmm.. contradiction?
by SpinningFistback on Apr 17, 2011 5:48 PM EDT reply actions
Of course he doesn’t want Anderson, look at the size difference.. But Jones and Silva are neck to neck. It makes much more sense then Silva vs GSP.
by SpinningFistback on Apr 17, 2011 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions
please scroll up
and refer to the picture of jon jones standing next to arlovski, who is a heavyweight, and jon jones is bigger than him…much. then tell me jones and anderson are neck and neck…
ill wait
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 17, 2011 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Jones is 2 inches taller then Andy.. they may not be neck to neck but my point was that they’re closer in height and weight then GSP is, tell me I’m wrong..
by SpinningFistback on Apr 17, 2011 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions
height
is not frame, frame has to do with your wrist and elbow measurements, and you can tell they are widely separated. so…um…yeah.
youre wrong
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 17, 2011 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions
So.. you’re suggesting that a GSP vs Silva match makes more sense then a Jon Jones vs Silva match? I take height into greater consideration then frame, as do most people. And frame has much more to do then just with wrists and elbows.
by SpinningFistback on Apr 18, 2011 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions
It is a terminology/semantics issue
In the kinesiological sense, frame refers to whether someone is “big boned” or has an average or below average “frame”, given their height. This is determined by measuring height and comparing it with some combination of wrist circumference, elbow breadth or elbow circumference and sometimes ankle or knee circumference.
The lay use of the word “frame” typically describes what is correctly known as skeletal size…again, basically a semantics/terminology issue and nothing more.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 18, 2011 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions
i was trying to be nice about this
but you really need me to rub your face in it…. remember you forced my hand.
frame is far more important than height, anyone who knows anything about mma and weight classes knows this, and its not a disputable, it is fact.
lets put it this way. cody mckenzie and anderson silva are the same height. cody has a smaller frame so hes able to cut to lw. thats not saying cody couldnt pack on some lean muscle and make ww or hell maybe…MAYBE mw, but i doubt it. point is cody is never fighting at 205 (unless hes fat), his frame does not allow it. but by your ‘height is more important than frame’ notion is basically saying that since cody and andy are the same height that andy could cut to lw if he wanted. and, no, he cant. know why? cuz his frame wont allow it, hes too large of an individual to make 155, it just aint happening regardless of the fact hes the same height as some lw’s. jones has a huge frame, some consider it to be just as big as lesnars. im not one that subscribes to that, but it still shows that the guy is built for heavyweight. jones is a monster that cuts down to 205, and im not saying he shouldnt. fuck it, if he can make the cut more power too him. but it wont last his whole career, his body handles it well now because hes young, and for that matter still growing. so he deals well with the cut, it doesnt drain him too much for fight night. i doubt that will remain true into his 30’s. anderson is built for mw and has had success through pure skill/talent at 205, but lets be honest, thats not his weight class. just like gsp could have some success at mw, but its not his weight class. gsp frame is closer to andersons than andersons to bones. how many pictures of jones being bigger than heavyweights must you see to grasp this?
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 18, 2011 7:25 AM EDT up reply actions
You realize
that 170 is closer to 185 than 185 is to 205, right?
Or that Silva said he was willing to drop for that fight? Or that Silva has fought as a WW? Or that Bones is widely considered to be the biggest, strongest man in the 205-pound division?
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Apr 18, 2011 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Well...
Jones is not widely considered the biggest LHW, unless you mean reach and length, but Jones in the cage as a LHW is only about 12-15 pounds heavier than Sonnen was (207) as a MW. Of course, GSP is 190+ in the cage as a WW, and Anderson is 185 – 192 in the cage as a MW.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 18, 2011 2:08 AM EDT up reply actions
gotta go with rollo on this one
i tihnk its generally accepted that jones is one of, if not these biggest LHW in the ufc right now… if not to date… hes got chicken legs, but the guy is huge
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 18, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
By biggest I am referring to in the cage weight. And yes, he is one of the bigger guys to be sure, but not at all the biggest.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 18, 2011 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions
1. Fedor 2. Anderson 3. GSP
There you go.
by Horselover Fat on Apr 17, 2011 5:50 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
i would agree
if fedor would have continued to fight relevant competition.
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 17, 2011 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Fedors legacy is ending though, where GSP has plenty of time to fuck shit up and secure that #1. I’d Argue Anderson over Fedor.
"Expose yourself to your deepest fear; after that, fear has no power, and the fear of freedom shrinks and vanishes. You are free." - Jim Morrison
by LowkickGreed on Apr 17, 2011 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
But he did. Tim Sylvia and Andre Arlovski were very credible and highly ranked opponents at the time, and like it or not Brett Roger was also in top 10 when they fought. Werdum and Bigfoot were also relevant. Sure there were some odd fights as well, but really it’s weird history revisionism and UFC bias that says Sylvia and AA weren’t good opponents.
by Horselover Fat on Apr 18, 2011 6:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Fedor beat plenty of top 10
guys. The problem is the HW top 10 sucked.
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by Chris Barton on Apr 18, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Anderson Silva’s manager thinks Anderson Silva is the greatest fighter of all time?
Shocking.
In the clearing stands a boxer And a fighter by his trade And he carries the reminders Of ev'ry glove that layed him down Or cut him till he cried out In his anger and his shame "I am leaving, I am leaving" But the fighter still remains
by Brian Mayes on Apr 17, 2011 6:08 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I think he said "Hasn't beaten anyone in the Top 10 since CC."
It’s true.
Antonio Silva Loss
Fabricio Werdum Loss
Brett Rogers
Andrei Arlovski
Tim Sylvia
Hong-Man Choi
Matt Lindland
Mark Hunt
Mark Coleman
Wagner Martins
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Arlovski and Sylvia were both in the Top 5 when Fedor beat them.
Arlovski was #2: http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/1/11/716604/bloody-elbow-january-mma-m
Sylvia was #5: http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2008/6/24/558067/bloody-elbow-meta-rankings
Had he fought Barnett, it would have been his third straight Top 5 opponent. Barnett was ranked #3.
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/7/29/966320/usat-sbn-july-mma-consensus
Twitter: @FlyByKnite
Correct, and
in addition, Rogers was #8 when he fought Fedor and actually rose on some major polls (to as high as #6 iirc) after a competitive loss.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 18, 2011 2:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I should also mention that Dave Doyle of Fox Sports had Lindland at #7 on his P4P list when Fedor beat him.
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2007/3/28/95114/6420
Twitter: @FlyByKnite
Matt Lindland is, was and will forever be one of the all-time great ranking anomalies.
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by Derek Suboticki on Apr 17, 2011 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
i think you might be refering to me....
and i still stand by that. now i agree that at the time when he fought AA and sylvia it was relevant. However after the test of time and we look back at those fights they are not really relevant in the grand scheme of MMA.
by barzillatron on Apr 17, 2011 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Any questions?
"Rather than love, than money, than faith, than fame, than fairness... give me truth."
Chris McCandless A.K.A. Alexander Supertramp
1968-1992
by T.C. Engel on Apr 17, 2011 7:22 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Why does the mat look like a Honeycomb?
"Every time I talk on the phone with someone who doesn’t know me, they call me "ma’am"." - Scott C. Broussard
by Earl Montclair on Apr 17, 2011 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions
It's Tough
to say the best of all time. He is one of the best of all time but not the greatest. I would still have to argue for GSP. He did get clobbered by Serra and lost to Hughes but Hughes is arguably #4 best all time and Serra is way better than Daiju Takase and Ryon Chonan. Anderson might be the best right now but when you lose to a ABSOLUTE NOBODY likfe Daiju Takase I can’t say your the best all time. Plus the “greatest” fighter in history of MMA doesn’t bulls*** a fight like he did with Maia and Leties. He could have killed them whenever he wanted but he chose to half a** things and not take the fight seriously.
Outside of the Serra fight GSP hasnt lost a round maybe even a minute in like 4 years!
Ahh the GSP fallacy
He’s so good he doesn’t lose a minute of a round in 4 years….but he can’t/won’t finish.
But wait he’s competition is soo good you cant finish them…except they’ve all been finished before!
So they’re so great you can’t finish them but not great enough to avoid being dominated.
Compare GSP and Silva’s records, title defenses, and losses in a title fight(s) (wait Silva doesn’t have any of those).
Now compare GSP and Silva HIGHLIGHTS and LOWLIGHTS.
Looking at all that Silva has to get the nod.
by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Apr 17, 2011 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
gsp tapped to strikes
hes been removed from candidacy, the GOAT can never under any circumstances have tapped due to strikes
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 17, 2011 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions
In fact only the GOAT can do that
and still win in a route.
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by RolloTomasi on Apr 18, 2011 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I think we should’ve preemptively banned Brazilians and Canadians from this conversation.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Apr 17, 2011 8:18 PM EDT reply actions
I think it's broken down to fans of
“dominating decisions” vs “dominating finishes”.
by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Apr 17, 2011 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
yes
next time we have a Zuffa debate, please keep yourself out of the conversation, thank you in advance.
not always will those who dumps on you be your enemies
and not always will those who take you out of shit be your friends
by Orcus on Apr 17, 2011 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Boomshakalaka
"Every time I talk on the phone with someone who doesn’t know me, they call me "ma’am"." - Scott C. Broussard
by Earl Montclair on Apr 17, 2011 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions
BOOM!!!
Meet me on Monsta Island. Where the girls look good and the MC's be Wildin'.
Also, follow me on Twitter @DeoWade
i dont even know why
i just saw this gif and im laughing my ass off for like 20 mins straight.
i dont know why im laughing but this gif is fucking hilarious
Nothing but RESPECT for Matt "The Terror" Serra
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Because I'm a fan?
I’m not Zuffian.
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by Derek Suboticki on Apr 17, 2011 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions
,
not always will those who dumps on you be your enemies
and not always will those who take you out of shit be your friends
Mooselimbs!
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 17, 2011 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions
“Best of all time” is a retarded concept that is so nebulous and impossible to define that it makes no sense trying to quantify it. Was Jordan the best of all time? Could Lebron, in his prime, beat Jordan in his prime? What about Kobe? What if Lebron and Jordan entered the league at the same time? How do you quantify Silva’s epic run in the UFC against what’s considered a weak division, and Fedor’s run in Pride which was considered a very strong division.
The pound for pound debate is problematic enough. Greatest of all time debate is worthless. Silva already said he won’t fight Jones, and we know that it isn’t because they’re friends.
FWIW, Jones will be the best of all time within the next 3 years or so.
my band
http://www.groggybikini.com
And BigNog has said different, much more recently.
I believe Silva will take fights at 205 before he retires. There are more big paydays there, and I think he knows that, regardless of what he’s said in the past.
In my opinion I think he’s going to have to decide if going out on his winning streak is most important or if making that scrilla, taking big fights while he can, win or lose, is how he goes out.
he doesnt have to make that kind of money
he has stated tons of times he wants to retire as MW champ, he doesn’t really need the money either.. Sponsorships and his new movie which is coming out, the guy is getting paid really well.
I don’t see Jones shifting up to HW either, and I dont see GSP shifting up to MW.
I definitely see Jones moving up to HW. I’d say that’s almost a sure thing. At his age and his size, he could easily be as big as Alistair Overeem without any illegal helpers (not that Overeem is or not, but I want to pre-empt the inevitable comments).
The thing about Jones moving up to Heavy is, the matchups are extremely winnable for him, even at around his current weight (+15 pounds or so). If he’s walking around at around 225 or maybe even more, and he puts on 10-15 pounds, I think he’s a handful for any Heavy; and 10-15 pounds for a guy that size is EASY!
He could potentially have stand-up somewhere in the league of Overeem with the wrestling game to make him really lethal. When I saw where his standup was against Shogun compared to where his standup was a year ago, the guy is improving at light-speed. His jab looked really really good.
my band
http://www.groggybikini.com
Jones ate Shogun's soul
but if he gets the size, and yes he is young and is bound to have a harder time cutting that weight eventually.. I find it hard to see him winning a HW title ever, gaining size as a HW doesnt guarantee you would not get your head clocked by another HW which happens all the time.
Overeem hasnt been tested against a tough brutal opponent and Kharitonov vaporized him with fists, that was the last legit HW he fought.
Jones needs to make a legacy, he needs to keep that ever changing LHW title, if he does that he would be legendary already,
You have a hard time seeing it because you’re seeing him as a LHW fighting a Heavy. Not sure about how long you’ve been watching MMA, but when Overeem was a Light Heavy, no one thought that he was going to be this Heavyweight beast blasting the faces off of Heavyweights. And if you think that Kharitonov is going to be able to mess him up now the way he did last time, you’re in serious denial. Kharitionov’s standup is powerful but sloppy and it’s pretty much guaranteed he absorbs punches before he knocks you out. There’s absolutely no way in Hell he can take the kind of punishment from Overeem in 2011 the way he did in 2007, when Overeem was much smaller (he was probably a good 15-20 pounds less than Kharitonov in their 2007 bout. Alistair landed a bunch of knees in that fight, 2011 Alistair knees only need to land one time.
One other reason I see Jones moving to heavy is that I think he’s probably going to clean out the LHW division fairly quickly and be looking for challengers a la GSP and Anderson. I personally think that Jones is a GSP that has more power, more killer/finishing instinct, and potentially doesn’t have the mental issues that GSP had when he first started. Jones needs whatever he needs. Dominating LHW would be one kind of legacy, dominating it and then moving up and dominating Heavies is an entirely different and better one. It’s another level in which you can legitimately start talking about GOAT. What Jones needs is up to him though. He wants GOAT, or he wants a legacy at LHW. That’s entirely up to him. I suspect he’s the former though.
my band
http://www.groggybikini.com
Jones will move to HW someday.
I have no doubt, his frame is so big, once he puts on his “Man muscle” around age 27-29 he’ll be a HW.
Wait and see.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
by RolloTomasi on Apr 18, 2011 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions
10 000 times? Just like he said he was going to retire a year or two ago?
When he said he’ll never fight Jones, he never once said he’s not moving to LHW. He only said that Jones is a friend.
Silva suddenly has challenges at Middle right now though, with Chael re-match somewhere on the horizon, his upcoming title defense in Rio, and a winnable superfight against GSP.
It’s pretty obvious though, as soon as noise came up about Silva fighting Jones, Silva wanted no part of it. The reason is quite obviously, that he has no chance of beating him. And he’s right, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. Jones is probably as fast as Silva, with inferior striking, but superior size and a wrestling base that more than makes up for his inferior striking. If I were Silva I’d do the same thing. No sense in taking a big fight that is a sure loss, unless the pay is exorbitant.
my band
http://www.groggybikini.com
Allow me...
or maybe its because Anderson said 10000 times he isnt going back to LHW, before Jones wasa namebrandeven in the UFC
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 18, 2011 2:26 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
you can define it
Bill Russell is basketballs GOAT
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 18, 2011 7:30 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Russell all the way
I still don’t understand when people discuss they do two odd things.
- They reference Jordan like he was the best, but fail to acknowledge Bill Russell.
- And they wonder if Kobe or Lebron could beat Jordan in his prime when we all know that BASKETBALL is clearly a TEAM sport.
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Apr 18, 2011 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions
11 championships
in 13 seasons… that is the motherfucking GOAT man… no one has come close to that… not MJ, not kobe, not bird…. no one.
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 18, 2011 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions
This is correct.
One for each finger and one for the dong.
by High Knee Destroyer on Apr 18, 2011 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
It was also a 10 team league
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Apr 18, 2011 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
making each team better
compared to the diluted nba we have now
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 18, 2011 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
of course they did
they just werent named kobe or d rose
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 18, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
also a white guy on the logo
what are you getting at?
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 18, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
You know what no one has come close to doing? averaging a triple double. Russel was always playing with great teammates. Oscar Robertson not only averaged a triple double, he absolutely killed it. Statistically, no one has ever come close. Not even scratching the door on what Oscar does. And yet he’s rarely mentioned as GOAT. Personally I think that trumps championships. Hell, Steve Kerr and Robert Horry have won championships.
my band
http://www.groggybikini.com
A little perspective
Comparing cross-generational GOATS is always dicey at best, but if we must:
Those Celtics teams were LOADED with Hall of Famers (Russell , Cousy, Sharman, Ramsey, K.C. Jones, Sam Jones, Heinsohn, Cowens). That’s 8 all-time greats in one all-time dynastic run. Russell was amazing, but lets not forget the help he had.
Jordan played with 1 Hall of Famer (Pippen). 2 if Rodman gets in (and he damned well better). After those two, the best player he played with was who? Toni Kukoc? No, wait, definitely Brian Williams. Or maybe it was Stever Kerr? Ron Harper?
C’mon man.
#6 man
it is what it is, he played team basketball on a great team. Miami Heat is LOADED and we see how well thats working for them. The guys career is awesome… and i mean that in the truest sense of the word… awesome. He had more rebounds than points… if the ball didnt go in, Bill Russell was getting the rebound, offense or defense… didnt matter. 14,000+ career points, 21,000+ career boards… the guy was a team basketball machine. The rest of the squad was good, but if he wasnt there they would not have won all those championships. his teammates have said that themselves.
G
O
A
T
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 18, 2011 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Good? Bob Cousy was good? I guess Archer is mildly amusing and Kim Jong II is somewhat less-than-handsome.
Jordan’s greatness was his ability to transcend the team game. No other player I’ve seen could carry a team single-handedly as consistently and as spectacularly as he could.
no other man ive seen either
but thats the point, our generation hold mj so near and dear because we watched it happen. i take it from my elders, my father and the like. people that were alive to watch both… anyone that was alive for both seems to have one answer to the question, an answer that comes without hesitation. its hard for us to quantify, because we didnt see it. just like kids that are 10 or 12 now will never truely know mj’s greatness like we do, they’ll see some highlights, but not follow such a storied career like we did. they’ll argue on about how kobe or lebron or someone else is the GOAT… but its all about perspective. i leave it to people that were alive and vested in both times…. they all seem to give #6 the nod.
doesnt hurt that the guy has 11 rings
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 18, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
This may sound crazy to some people but I think Jordan’s legacy, like Randy Couture’s famed legacy benefits heavily from a great marketing machine.
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Apr 18, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
skill wise the guy clearly has it
but there is something to what your saying. because that guy we know of mj and the real man are two very different people. i met him, several times. and he is a bonafide dick head. he is exactly like lebron. he was just smarter than lebron. lebron let his ego make it to the public, jordan and his camp were very good about hiding it away. but when the cameras are off and the reporters have left, jordan is just as bad as king james’ egotisical self righteous ass
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 18, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think anyone is any less of a GOAT because they were an asshole. See Cobb, Ty.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Apr 18, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
no question about it
just a side note, i met him, was let down…
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 18, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I seem to remember some sort of Cobb quote when asked how he would do against the today’s pitchers where he said something like “I’d probably only hit .270, maybe .280”.
“Why, because of the…of the modern pitchers?”
“No, because I am 73”
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 18, 2011 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions
i am literally
bracing for impact from the shitstorm im sure is coming my way for what i just said….
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 18, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Not from me.
I mentioned below that I hated Jordan when played, but I still recognize greatness when I see it.
You make a good point about actually watching Jordan play vs. not getting to see Russell live, but when it comes down to something I’ve seen vs. something my dad has seen, I’m going to go with my own experience.
did your dad not see both?
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 18, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Comparing them is so problematic. Russel was a big strong center. His game and affect were completely different. Distilling the greatest player of all time to championships, does it really mean he’s the greatest player, or that he was the most important player on a team that won the most championships.
Oscar was the best BTW. I know a couple of old NBA guys and they claim that no one dominates the game today the way Oscar dominated in his day.
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Jordan’s greatness was his ability to transcend the team game. No other player I’ve seen could carry a team single-handedly as consistently and as spectacularly as he could.
I find that to be a little problematic. I see we have a serious philosophical difference here. I believe Jordan got better when he got his teammates involved. When he began to believe in the defense and share the ball, they were able to get out of the East and win championships. Unfortunately many players in the Jordan mold, attempted to transcend the team, totally forgetting the team in the process. We have often seen Iverson, Kobe, Marbury and many others shoot, shoot, shoot with little to no team consciousness.
Russell on the other hand, team-first and defense first philosophy produced great results. Not to mention, he was one of the first Player/Coach competitors like Magic Johnson, a true court general.
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
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VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Apr 18, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
no shit
he was in charge of the damn team, he called the shots, and still was so very selfless. team basketball.
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 18, 2011 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I could've made that clearer.
There’s no doubt that the Bulls were at their best when Jordan came around to the team concept, I’m not about to argue that.
What I’m trying to say is that, in addition to the ability to single-handedly elevate his entire team through his own play (which all the greats can do), he could, when the situation dictated it, dominate an entire game, series or post-season by himself. And he could do so with more consistency and better results than anyone I’ve seen play.
Good point but . . .
There’s many ways to look at this. (Here’s my fake counter-point)
- It’s not like they were brought in to win the championship like a Wade-James-Bosh or Garnett-Allen-Pierce situation. Many of those guys were beginning together . . . just like Pippen and Jordan.
- You got to admit, Russell just made his guys better like Magic and Kidd.
- With Russell, these guys were able to gel as the best team the NBA has ever witnessed . . . well there’s always the 1995-96 Bulls, you can not beat a 72-10 season.
- Jordan was definitely GREAT on both ends of the floor compared to Russell, a defensive wizard.
- Question, do you consider Kobe or Lebron great on both ends of the floor like Jordan?
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
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VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Apr 18, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not knocking Russell, or those Celtics teams in any way shape or form. They exemplified the value of teamwork in the NBA (much as the Spurs have for the last decade or so). I just think it’s hard to take one guy, and single him out as the reason they won 11 championships. Doing so takes a guy like Cousy (a legitimate all-time great) and trivializes his legacy.
As for your question:
If we’re talking pure skill set, Kobe is pretty comparable to MJ on both ends (Lebron has a ways to go defensively). But what sets Jordan apart from those two, imo, is the ability to consistently deliver on that skill set, at any time, in any situation, in any game, with any group of players.
OK. You have great points but “with any group of players” is a bit exaggerated.
Let’s not forget. The Bulls organization wanted to get rid of Pippen after the 1st 3 championships and there were questions about Jackson continuing as head coach. Jordan specifically told management, I will return under two conditions. Pippen and Jackson.
In the end, when people talk about the best in basketball I still think any discussion that does not mention Bill Russell or Oscar Robertson, need to really check them out and what they’ve done in the sport.
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
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VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Apr 18, 2011 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
I come from the school of thought that it’s basically impossible to pick a GOAT. There’s just no way to standardize the data, and so much of it is subjective anyway. Russell is a candidate, Robertson is, ditto Bird, Johnson, Jordan even Shaq, Chamberlain, Marovich (and many others) can make a claim.
What I can definitively state is that Jordan was the greatest player I have ever seen play (and I HATED the guy, in his prime). As Archer mentioned above, if I’d been alive to see Russell play, maybe I ‘d have a different view, but I’ll stick with what I know.
until andy beats cung le
soares should shut his mouth
by vicesquad26 on Apr 17, 2011 10:47 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
youve got to be joking
youve just… got to be….
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 18, 2011 8:08 AM EDT up reply actions
your sarcasm meter is broken
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DAH!
its kriegers fault
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Apr 18, 2011 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
He is claiming budget cutbacks, but his comments were of course, hidden by SBNation.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on Apr 18, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Phil Baroni would disagree.
the best EVAH!!!
by Victor Rodriguez on Apr 17, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions
there are so many stupid ppl
Bottom fucking line:
A.silva didnt lose one fight in ufc and fought the bests
gsp is dominating ww rite now but he lost twice in championship fights
obviously a.silva is the best on paper at least. Dont even mention about how sonnen almost beat silva or gsp would kill silva. Sonnen didbt beat silva. He was just damn close. And gsp had never fought silva so why would you talk about the fight when its not even.scheduled?
Nothing but RESPECT for Matt "The Terror" Serra
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by DK_Monster on Apr 18, 2011 10:26 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Botton Line
- Ed Soares has been stating this for a long while.
- Anderson Silva is Soares client. He’s probably very biased.
- Silva is currently the MW champion. GSP is not.
- GSP is currently the WW champion. Silva is not.
- Jon Jones did not defend his title yet.
- Chonan did defeat Silva a long while ago.
- Niether Silva nor GSP are undefeated.
- Despite his performance and drug abuse, Chael Sonnen did not defeat Silva. He even admitted this fact.
- Dana White will continue to declare Anderson Silva the best P4P fighter in the world and this conversation will continue.
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
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VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Apr 18, 2011 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
I’ll always view Anderson’s string of title defenses with a (huge) grain of salt… lack of competition. Just about half of his title defenses were against guy who shouldn’t have been there in the first place. Leites, Cote, Maia, Lutter (TUF gimmick). Those are all terrible fights, and only a very division would produce those guys as title contenders.
Compare that with GSP, who over the course of title fights, only Hardy and Serra (TUF gimmick) didn’t deserve to be in there. The rest were Top 5 guys.
With that being said, it’s hard to argue against Anderson Silva as the best of all time, at this very moment. GSP might surpass him in another 2-3 years, though.
Serra didn't deserve to be in there
and he knocked GSP out?
wow that makes perfect sense
Nothing but RESPECT for Matt "The Terror" Serra
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No he didn't.
The result doesn’t change the fact that he didn’t deserve to fight for a title. Getting a title shot because you win a reality show is a gimmick and shouldn’t have happened. He was coming off a loss to Karo, and then a win against Lytle. A win against Lytle gives you a title shot? Give me a break.
I’m being consistent here… Lutter didn’t deserve to be in there against Silva, coming off a win against Cote in TUF, just as Serra didn’t deserve a title shot.
he didnt just beat lytle
he beat pete spratt, shonie carter within 6 weeks and then he beat lytle who beat spratt, din thomas within 6 weeks.
Nothing but RESPECT for Matt "The Terror" Serra
http://gotmma.org/ - Korean MMA blog
I’m sorry, but eating guys while in TUF doesn’t count, they’re exhibition matches, only 2 rounds, with little to no time to prepare for fights.
im not arguing that those fights werent exhibition matches
im just saying dana guaranteed the titile shots if they win the TUF title and Serra did. Serra won TUF so he got his shot. Serra beat spratt via TKO and I believe Carter fight was 3 rounders (not because Carter took a round, all semis were 3 rounders if I remember correctly. and Serra didn’t have enough time to prepare for fights just like other contestants.
I won’t argue with that beating TUF contestants is less creditable than beating BJ Penn and Sean Sherk but Serra still legitimately earned his title shot.
Nothing but RESPECT for Matt "The Terror" Serra
http://gotmma.org/ - Korean MMA blog
Don’t care. Winning TUF shouldn’t give you a title shot. It’s a gimmick to prop up a TUF season and I honestly doubt we’ll ever see that again, at least, I hope we don’t.
I want on 5-6 win streak fighting for titles… if a division can’t produce guys on 5-6 win streak before getting their title shots, that division is way too thin to my liking.
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