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Chael Sonnen: The UFC's Prodigal Middleweight Set for Return

Chael Sonnen's public image has taken a beating in the last few months.

Chael Sonnen has had a hell of a year since his brilliant performance against Anderson Silva at UFC 117. He managed to build that fight into Silva's biggest Pay Per View headliner ever purely by his brilliant (or sociopathic) pre-fight trash talk. Then he shocked everyone by dominating Silva in every aspect of the fight for four and one half rounds before falling into a triangle choke and losing with just over a minute left in the fight.

Since then it's been all down-hill for the former US Olympic Greco-Roman team member. Sonnen failed his post-fight drug test and was hit with a one-year suspension by the California State Athletic Commission. And no sooner had he appealed that down to six-months than he announced he had pled guilty to federal money laundering charges in an Oregon real estate deal. The UFC "froze" his contract while he awaited sentencing. 

Now he's been sentenced to two years probation and he says he's ready to come back to the UFC. Here's Sonnen from the MMA Hour (transcribed by MMA Mania):

"They have not given me a date but I'm pretty sure it's going to be very soon. I think he wants to get me in there as soon as possible. The director has been very stern with me. He was stern with me face-to-face. But he's also been very fair with me. He leveled with me, I would love to play poker with director Kizer, I'd clean him out. He's got no poker face. He'll tell you it straight, he'll tell you exactly how it is. And he told me I could come before his body as soon as I got done with the federal thing and look forward for a second chance. I think it will happen right away. I think it could happen as soon as this Friday. ... I'm real confident that we'll be in there within the month of April and we'll have resolution ...

I had contact with the UFC, I reached out to them. I said, 'Guys, give me the worst guy you've got under contract' and you've got to understand, my focus has been in a lot of different directions. Dealing with the federal government is a tough thing. Losing a title fight that you put everything into is a tough thing ... I called them up and I leveled with them, I said, 'Give me the worst guy you've got under contract.' They said, 'Chael, Wanderlei won't fight you.' I said, 'Alright, give me the second worst guy you've got under contract.' They said, 'Chael, how many times do we have to tell you -- Cro Cop's a heavyweight.' I said, 'Alright, is there anybody available? How about Bisping? Is his dance card open? And they said, 'That might be a possibility.' That's where we left off. That just isn't my focus. My focus is making things right with Director Kizer."

We've covered Sonnen's self-created difficulties with Nevada State Athletic Commissioner Keith Kizer here and here. But suffice it to say that Sonnen made some false claims regarding Kizer while testifying before the CSAC and Kizer can't let it slide.

Is Chael Sonnen worth the trouble he causes the UFC despite his athletic skills and gift of gab? Geno Mrosko asks the question:

(Sonnen's schtick) works wonderfully when his venom is directed at say, Silva, who fans were in a love-hate affair with at the exact time Sonnen turned his attention to the Brazilian and the gold around his waist.

Actually, it's a wonderful thing when he decides to go head on against any fighter, one that may get the chance to shut him up inside the cage in a bout on pay-per-view (PPV).

When it's not such a good thing, is when he's not filtering himself in front of athletic commissions or those in power that have the ability to determine whether or not he can fight again ... men like NSAC Director Keith Kizer.
...
He'll likely be let back but at what price? Do we believe Sonnen has changed his ways and will be any different than the man that got himself into this heaping mess to begin with? Or are we expecting the same trash-talking genius promoter who can't keep his truths straight from his lies?

Mrosko talked to Zach Arnold of FightOpinion.com to get his take on the Sonnen situation:

We know what UFC wants to do with him. They want him on TUF in order to try to revive that show. The problems with that show, however, are so extensive that simply replacing coaches isn't going to save the ratings decline there. They do want to pair him opposite Michael Bisping for good reason.

They are in the PPV business and they know the devil they have in Sonnen as opposed to some of the devils they don't have that they may have to push into PPV main events in the future. To me, he is fool's gold. He's had a largely average MMA career until his hot streak against Nate Marquardt (mid-level middleweight), Yushin Okami (above average middleweight), and then the fight performance against Anderson Silva (where he eventually lost the fight). Is it really worth the amount of energy UFC is spending to try to save this guy's career and put up with his act? It's hard to say. UFC's calculation is that the benefits outweigh the cons. It still doesn't change the fact that he uses drugs and has admitted as such.

Will fans care about him continuing to fight and dope in the process? Largely, no. As we've seen with the drug issue in MMA, fans forget about the issue unless it's a fighter that they really hate and then if said fighter gets busted the fans will turn around and whack him with the positive test as a weapon. Otherwise, it's the Wild West and as long as Sonnen can continue doping with the permissions of athletic commissions or the UFC at foreign events, it will be business as usual.

Do I think Chael Sonnen is worth the hassle? No. He had his moment in the sun last year. He's more on the downside than he is on the upside. However, desparate people do desparate things and as long as he can convince one person - Dana White - that he's useful, then Dana will twist himself up like a pretzel to justify Sonnen's existence with public lines like "the kid's paid his dues and now it's time for him to come back."

I have to respectfully disagree with Zach. Sure he's right from a moral, legal and ethical stand point. But as a fight fan and someone who always slows down to rubber neck at car wrecks on the highway, I'm all for Sonnen coming back in a big way. Sonnen and Bisping coaching The Ultimate Fighter would be such great television and the fight afterwards promises to be the just desserts...

Let's just put it this way, if Dana White and Chael Sonnen can somehow convince Keith Kizer to give Sonnen one last chance, I as a fan will be eternally in their debt. 

Comment 228 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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I did laugh a little at “Chael, Cro Cop is a heavyweight”. But I can’t deal w ppl throwing shade at my boy Wandy.

Are our bones not dust?
Is our Blood not Poison?
On my knees in the black light
Praying for Salvation, bitter Redemption
So throw your dice and cast your shadow
You may look away
But your children will not...

by ProfessorBLove on Apr 12, 2011 10:51 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

That actually made me lol too.

And although Wand certainly isn’t the worst fighter at 185, he’s definitely the biggest name, highest ranked, but still beatable middlweight ATM.

http://www.headkicklegend.com/

"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates

by ElliotMatheny on Apr 13, 2011 7:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

I like how...

…he manages to throw digs at fighters while answering unrelated questions.

by INGO B on Apr 12, 2011 10:53 AM EDT reply actions  

he’s the best at the unwarranted jabs.

I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!

by VeeisAnimated on Apr 12, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’m sorry, but Wanderlei deserves all the jabs in the world for not wanting to fight Stann or Belfort, and instead campaining for an easier fight in Leben.

by Shnak on Apr 12, 2011 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

He's not allowed to campaign for a more reasonable fight

After knee surgery and considerably over a year off from fighting? You are brutal.

by Confucius on Apr 12, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Someone with “The Axe Murderer” nickname shouldn’t be campaining for easy fights.

by Shnak on Apr 12, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think Leben's much easier than Stann

if at all.

Chris had a bad showing in a fight where either man could KO the other. I’m not sure Stann has much more than a good chin, big power and average wrestling. Which is essentially what Leben brings as well.

"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."

by TheFilt on Apr 12, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

nah, dude

Leben’s game plan against Stann was just to absorb damage and try to knock the motherfucker out. he didn’t fight smart or try to grapple/use BJJ. he failed in implementing ANYTHING that involved fighter IQ and went ahead with pure balls.

by Victor Rodriguez on Apr 12, 2011 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can understand that Wanderlei didn’t want anything to do with Belfort as his return fight, that’s fine. But Stann? And coming up with that BS excuse about not wanting to fight an american war hero? That’s just ridiculous.

by Shnak on Apr 12, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

He may actually feel that way. It is his professional decision. If he thinks fighting and hurting a war hero will effect his popularity, I’ll take his word for it. He has been doing this a while

"Tact is the knack of making a point without making an enemy."
~Sir Isaac Newton~

by warren305 on Apr 12, 2011 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

notice how wanderlei gets every benefit of the doubt

but chael sonnen incites moral outrage.

i watch the sport to see guys dominate and take on challenges – not back down.

by kellly on Apr 12, 2011 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it’s more that he didn’t want to be knocked out by someone he considers an unknown, and would affect his popularity. I’m hoping Leben humiliates him like he was by Stann, that’ll show Wanderlei not to pick and choose his opponents.

by Shnak on Apr 13, 2011 7:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Rec'd x 1000

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by Derek Suboticki on Apr 12, 2011 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why should a guy be given a ‘tune-up’ fight coming back from an injury? Either he’s ready to fight, or he isn’t. If he’s good, he’ll do well despite the rust. If he loses because of the rust, people will understand he’s coming off an injury and be cheering for him to come back stronger in his next fight. I have no problems with grooming prospects, though; I’ve never said anything regarding that.

by Shnak on Apr 13, 2011 7:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

His reason for not fighting

  • Stann . . . an American hero.
  • Belfort – he wants to be fully prepared. Wants one fight before that match.

You’re right though, if you’re the axe murderer . . . just fight but.
Wanderlei vs Leben > Wanderlei > Stann

Ever heard Sonnen’s rip on GSP, Lesnar and subtle jab at Dan Henderson? The dude is a comedian. Unwarranted shots.

I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!

by VeeisAnimated on Apr 12, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

I would much rather see Wanderlei fight Stann. Why? Simple. Both are coming off wins. Leben was destroyed by Stann. The fact that Wanderlei campained to fight a guy who was just humiliated speaks a lot about how he views himself as a MMA fighter nowadays, IMO.

by Shnak on Apr 12, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

I have to agree

People are underrating Stann. Why would you say that Leben is a harder fight than Stann, when Stann butchered Leben. That doesn’t make sense.

by Thomas Benjamin on Apr 12, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wanderlei vs Leben

Will be a real banger. They both like to simply bang and please the crowd to their own detriment.

I don’t really care about match-making that is dependent on the W L column. There are certain fights that will simply amaze an arena. Wanderlei Silva vs Chris Leben is one of those fights.

But I am kind of dissappointed that Wanderlei is not actually gunning for Belfort, a fight that is very important to him and his camp. It’s not like Belfort is coming off a win.

I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!

by VeeisAnimated on Apr 12, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

And you don’t think Wanderlei/Stann wouldn’t be a bang fest? Why? Because Stann would finish Wanderlei like he did Leben?

by Shnak on Apr 12, 2011 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

maybe. Who knows.
It’s just that when it comes to Leben, he’s guaranteed to stand and deliver. Both guys throw caution to the wind with a wild erratic style. I don’t think their fight will be quick.

Stann finishing Wanderlei like he finished Leben would be cool but some times 5 round wars looks better than 1 round quick KO’s.
While Anderson’s foot in Belfort face was cool, I’m sure Sonnen taking down Silva round after round was more dramatic.

I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!

by VeeisAnimated on Apr 12, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Honestly, I think Leben’s just shot. He looked horrible against Stann, and I have no reason to believe that he’ll even be competitive against Wand.

by Shnak on Apr 12, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Come on, Leben had a great camp but then he got sick – cold, flu or something. I’m far from the biggest Leben fan. He is what he is, but he definitely wasn’t himself during that fight. (Well that’s the post-fight story that I remember.)

Stann still gets his props.

I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!

by VeeisAnimated on Apr 12, 2011 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Leben’s done. Way too many hits to the head. I just can’t bring myself to enjoy his fights anymore, it’s like rooting for a guy to hit himself with a baseball bat on the head until he dies. At a certain point, we, as fans, should stop rooting for guys who are clearly compromising their quality of life post-MMA.

by Shnak on Apr 12, 2011 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

How can you say that?

One bad performance following arguably the best showing of his career and he’s done?

"So, while you're taking a break from the UFC, hanging out at some lame party that your girlfriend dragged you to, I'll man up and watch some goddamn fights like a goddamn adult."
- Mike Fagan

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by Worldisart on Apr 12, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

What I mean is that his body is done, he’s been through enough. His fight against Akiyama was one of the hardest things to watch when Leben was basically a walking zombie for most of the fight. Stann just finished what Akiyama couldn’t. Leben’s brain has to look like scrambled eggs by now.

by Shnak on Apr 12, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

sick or not

you can do better than just standing there and throwing big bombs.

by Victor Rodriguez on Apr 12, 2011 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, because he hasn't already had a legendary career and is now slowing down.

He’s always been a worthless bum who ducked everyone. PRIDE sucks! Legacies mean nothing!

"Unless you can’t think of something intelligent to say, don’t reply and make the world as dumb as you are appearing to be." - mabel4life

by lowellthehammer on Apr 12, 2011 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb-hNWDd4is

In this interview Dana White says Wanderlei wanted Leben, but they offered him Belfort and he accepted the fight. So did Belfort. But they ended up granting him his wish anyway.

Wandy never backs down from anyone! WAR WANDY!

by Svet on Apr 12, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shnak

has some thing against Wandy, for the life of me I can’t imagine why.
Awesome accent with occasional unintentional humor?
Great belly laugh?
Exciting as all hell fighter?
Best killer instinct (when a guy is slightly rocked FLURRY FOR THE FINISH)?
Almost socker kicking Bisping’s head into Joe Silva’s lap?

You can’t not love Wand, yet, somehow Shnak has a beef with him.

by hardlyworking on Apr 12, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

When you murder people with axes someone’s bound to get mad eventually.

If you can't wow them with brilliance, then baffle them with bullshit.

by DayGeaux on Apr 12, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have a problem with anyone coming off a win calling out guys coming off losses. I didn’t have a problem with Wand before he started this shit with not wanting to fight Stann.

by Shnak on Apr 12, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

he wanted Leben over Stann

because of Leben’s higher profile. Stann just isn’t well enough known and Wandy was worried Stann would be the fan favorite as well.
re Belfort, he wants to get some wins going and build to that rematch.

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by Nate Wilcox on Apr 12, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe what he thought, but that’s not what he said. He said he didn’t want to fight an american war hero. That’s just BS. I’m sorry, but Wanderlei just doesn’t have the resume over the last 2-3 years to be deciding who he fights. He should STFU and fight whoever the UFC wants him to fight. He should be grateful the UFC is still giving him a ton of money, considering he’s 5 years past his prime. IMO, of course.

by Shnak on Apr 12, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow

Righteous

"Tact is the knack of making a point without making an enemy."
~Sir Isaac Newton~

by warren305 on Apr 12, 2011 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bravo!

If you can't wow them with brilliance, then baffle them with bullshit.

by DayGeaux on Apr 12, 2011 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Damn

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by Neil Manich on Apr 12, 2011 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

A MUTHAFUCKING FOOL!!!

Sounds like a punk band.

Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.

by RolloTomasi on Apr 13, 2011 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not making anything up. It’s pretty clear that Dana is now defending Wanderlei against fan backlash. Here’s what Nick Thomas said about Wanderlei when announcing the Leben fight.

UFC middleweight Wanderlei Silva has got his wish and will be fighting Chris Leben instead of the UFC’s failed attempts in setting up Wanderlei against Brian Stann and Vitor Belfort.

UFC’s failed attempts at setting up Wanderlei against Belfort. Not my words, Nick’s words. And there have been plenty of interviews with Dana where he said he wanted to set up Wanderlei against Belfort, not against Leben. Here’s an interview about it.

Dana White spoke MMA Fighting’s Ariel Helwani after today’s UFC 128 press conference and revealed that the one middleweight fight he wants to book is Wanderlei Silva vs. Vitor Belfort II. Dana says Vitor wants it, he just needs to figure out if Wanderlei wants it. Wanderlei tweeted yesterday that he wants to fight Chris Leben, but he was calling out Vitor only a few weeks ago. Unless Wand has changed his mind, it sure sounds like he wants another crack at Belfort.

One last link, The Week in Quotes from last month:

“Wanderlei knows I want that fight (and) Vitor is ready to roll. I don’t know (if Wanderlei wants that), but let’s find out. Run and tweet that, homeboy!” – White (MMA Fighting)

So, what happened? If Dana wanted the fight, Vitor wanted the fight, and apparently, now Dana’s saying Wanderlei wanted it too. So why isn’t this fight happening? The most likely explanation is that Wanderlei said to Dana he’s not ready to fight Belfort (ie. he thinks he’ll lose to him, again), and wants to take a few easier fights before fighting him. If that’s the case, that’s fine, but don’t pretend like you really think Leben is a better fight or other bullshit like that. Just say it like it is.

by Shnak on Apr 13, 2011 7:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, there are a ton of conflicting accounts.

However, Wand himself publicly called Vitor out.

When UFC came to Brazil for the first time, in 1998, Wanderlei Silva debuted on the event, but was defeated by Vitor Belfort. After that fight, Wanderlei reached the top of the world on Pride, but never got his so dreamed rematch. With Vitor’s loss to Anderson Silva, on UFC 126, "The Axe Murderer" proposed the challenge, on a phone talk with TATAME. "And now, where are you running to?", asked Wanderlei. "I’d give him the number one (on the line to fight me) easily, I’m challenging him … I want him". It’s up to you, Dana White and Joe Silva.

http://www.tatame.com/2011/02/11/Wanderlei-Silva-challenges-Vitor-Belfort—Where-are-you-running-to

http://www.headkicklegend.com/

"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates

by ElliotMatheny on Apr 13, 2011 7:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Looks to me Wanderlei backed out on his word when actually confronted with the reality of facing Belfort again… probably had flashbacks of their first fight and figured he’d pretty much be done as a fighter if that happened ever again. He wants a few (what he considers to be) easy fights before getting beat by Belfort one last time. Again, I’m only speculating here. But what other explanation is there?

by Shnak on Apr 13, 2011 7:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

lmao

whats with the one man campaign to see the belfort vs silva fight? You can’t change anything by posting your side of things over, and over, and over.

by mikeI981j on Apr 13, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

There's just no way to know that.

Wand/ Leben isn’t a bad matchup right now, anyways.

http://www.headkicklegend.com/

"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates

by ElliotMatheny on Apr 14, 2011 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I have to respectfully disagree with Zach. Sure he’s right from a moral, legal and ethical stand point. But as a fight fan …… I’m all for Sonnen coming back in a big way.

Agreed. The guy stirs up shiat with everything he says, which generates a ton of interest in what he’s involved in.

The guy may be a PR nightmare, but he markets himself better than most in MMA.

by Suffocate on Apr 12, 2011 10:55 AM EDT reply actions  

RECCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCED!

by Shnak on Apr 12, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Fuck that.

Chael should never be anywhere near a title until he can display some basic submission defense. That fucking guy has gotten tapped by the same basic guard submissions over half a dozen times in his career. Why waste Anderson’s precious time when we all know he’s just going to submit Chael again?

If the guy can’t avoid getting submitted after beating on an injured Ando for 22+ minutes, then I see no reason to book that rematch anytime soon.

http://www.headkicklegend.com/

"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates

by ElliotMatheny on Apr 13, 2011 7:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

why?

So he can get triangle arm barred again? Never seen someone with such shitty submission defense in the ufc.

by Spider_Vemon on Apr 12, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because Anderson’s fights are boring against anyone else. At least Silva made Anderson interesting for 22 minutes.

by Shnak on Apr 12, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oops, forgot to preview. I obviously meant to say that Sonnen made Anderson interesting for 22 minutes.

by Shnak on Apr 12, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Have you seen the Maia or Leites fights. Whatever reasons there were, they were definitely not “unadulterated awesomeness”.

by BKdroid on Apr 12, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

100% agreement

I love me some Andy. I actually liked the Maia fight…the first couple of rounds anyways, he completely outclassed and clowned Maia and I will NEVER get the hate for the Leites fight. Maybe I need to rewatch that shit, but to my recollection Andy was clowning him as well with the initial exchanges, but whenever Andy would go to seriously engage, Leites instantly flopped right on his damn back EVERY time! Andy wanted to fight and was clearly frustrated when every time he went to display his awesome technique Leites went and did the fish dance, so idk why the hate for the fight really. The Maia fight yes, the Leites fight, no.

Anderson Silva, Edson Barboza, Jose Aldo, Charles Oliveira, Thiago Alves = Muay Thai wrecking machines!

by SentientAndroid on Apr 12, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

You liked the Maia fight?

Do you also like Prairie home companion, public access tv, and Cspan2…you programming where nothing ever happens…

You know Joe, Brandon Vera is considered to be a Heavyweight George St.Pierre because he just comes, comes, and comes again... -Mike Goldberg, UFC 57

Cheick Kongo looks like a cross between Evander Holyfield and pop singer Seal!
Melvin Guilard looks like a little Kevin Randelman!
-Mike "All black people look alike to me" Goldberg, UFC 62/64

by Jonnycaz2.0 on Apr 12, 2011 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dude

At the risk of making myself seem like a complete pussy, I really like A Prairie Home Companion. That shit’s good.

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by Neil Manich on Apr 12, 2011 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like Prarie home companion.

Lake Wobegone hmmmmm relaxing…..

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by RolloTomasi on Apr 13, 2011 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

The first couple of rounds were a complete showcase of his many skills, and then he just said fuck it. I guess I should’ve said that I enjoyed the first 2 rounds, but yeah overall the fight was odd.

Anderson Silva, Edson Barboza, Jose Aldo, Charles Oliveira, Thiago Alves = Muay Thai wrecking machines!

by SentientAndroid on Apr 13, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Funny how you’re admitting yourself that his fight against Sonnen was more awesome than any other fight Anderson’s ever had in the UFC. I couldn’t agree more.

by Shnak on Apr 12, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yea, although I liked watching him fight Leben.

I remember thinking at the time that, as long as I live, I’ll probably never see such a one sided ass kicking again. Little did I realize that I was watching the beginning of a fucking dynasty.

by Gideon Jay on Apr 12, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

To wit:

“I actually really enjoyed the first part of the fight, with Anderson changing up his style, like he would do Machida, then he would kind of do the Diaz brothers’ thing, then Muhammad Ali,” Jackson said. “I was actually very entertained with all the different styles that he was emulating as he was going after him. And then for the last half of the fight, I think he got so far ahead he played it smart, or he got tired. One way or the other, to me, it’s not a disgrace at all. It was a fight and sometimes you look great and sometimes you have one with a little more grinding. But playing it smart or getting tired and not engaging because you’re a little tired isn’t a disgrace to me.” -Greg Jackson

The first half of the the Maia fight was pure awesomeness – Vee is ANIMated

I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!

by VeeisAnimated on Apr 12, 2011 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Watching Vitor get his face kicked off… his face… was pretty fun.

by TMadeBurner on Apr 12, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

LOL

You’re right. It was a terrible fight no one would want to see again. Sonnen was terrible and had nothing for Silva.

by High Knee Destroyer on Apr 12, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well

He made for a dramatic antagonist in the docu AS suggested in prep for the fight… curious.

by TRob on Apr 12, 2011 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

he had good sub defense for the first 24 minutes of the 25 minute fight, its not like he went in there and silva put on a submission clinic on him lol.

by mikeI981j on Apr 13, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

FREE SONNEN!

Hilarious, GET HIM BACK. That was fucken funny

Seriously don't take me serious. Seriously....

by F.U.B.A.R on Apr 12, 2011 11:04 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Is there

A reason he’s calling out Wandy as the worst figther under contract? Is this a gimmick to get him to agree to a fight or something? If not, I don’t get it…

Sonnen is a nut. LoL!

by ScottyDoo on Apr 12, 2011 11:07 AM EDT reply actions  

I think he might have meant worst as in “baddest man on the plannet” type of worst.

by castleeb on Apr 12, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

They have a little bit of bad between them at this point and it’s a obvious dig to get that fight eventually. Because I’ll add that Sonnen would wreck Wand…

Never seen the infamous video where Wand is talking to Sonnen about respect? It had so many wetting their pants thinking that Sonnen was scared instead of just not wanting to start shit on a business trip. That eventually lead to some back and forth between them.

by Empty Thoughts on Apr 12, 2011 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it’s just Chael taking a cheap shot at a guy when he didn’t have anything to say to his face.

Or he could be angling for what he thinks would be an easy fight against Wandy.

by Hardcase on Apr 12, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

the reason

is comedy. When he speaks, imagine you are watching a comedian. He tells stories to make you laugh. They’re not usually factual.

I consider myself a softcore fan.

by Thor77 on Apr 12, 2011 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Chael is hysterical. I look forward to watching him hype a fight again.

Sean Sherk lied to the NSAC, why doesn’t anyone seem to care about that? So did Antonio Silva, I believe. These are competitive athletes who get punched in the face for a living. Go to church if you want to be surrounded by morality.

by Gideon Jay on Apr 12, 2011 11:09 AM EDT reply actions  

there's no reason to believe the CSAC over Sherk

let’s not forget that the current ED of the CSAC threw out the entire testing protocol of the disgraced Armando Garcia CSAC when he took over, electing to do NO testing rather than continue with their old practices.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Apr 12, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Whether you are sure about it or not, the CSAC and their arguments were completely flawed in said case. If it had been a actual court of law the case would have been thrown out completely, but because it was the CSAC they backpeddled instead.

by Empty Thoughts on Apr 12, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why NSAC?

Why does he need to play nice with Kizer to get a fight, say, in New Jersey? I understand he’s been banned by the CSAC, and that he dragged Kizer into this mess (NSAC), so he has to be licensed to fight in those two states, but what stops him from fighting in any other state without ever having to talk to Kizer ever again?

by Shnak on Apr 12, 2011 11:12 AM EDT reply actions  

if he wants to coach TUF

that happens in Nevada. Also the NSAC and the NJ commission are the 2 most influential in the country.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Apr 12, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ok, but if you throw TUF out of the discussion, why doesn’t the UFC simply put him on a card not overseen by the CSAC or the NSAC? Or, are you saying that all other states will follow the NSAC’s lead and not license Sonnen?

by Shnak on Apr 12, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's also a matter of keeping life simple for the UFC

They don’t want to start some bullshit situation where they pull the rug from under the NSAC and have the NSAC make life difficult for them later…..sort of a “you scratch my back i’ll scratch yours” relationship. It doesn’t work if you say “you scratch my back and then fuck off I’m gonna do what I want”

"What do you know about my vision? My vision will turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself: Are you really ready to see that vision?"
-Huey Freeman

by dgonz on Apr 12, 2011 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why you gotta do this to me man.

I can only type so fast with one hand on the keyboard.

by Hedonismbot on Apr 12, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Then stop fapping to last week's Tweet Tweet article with Arianny's FHM pictures with the other hand

lol

"What do you know about my vision? My vision will turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself: Are you really ready to see that vision?"
-Huey Freeman

by dgonz on Apr 12, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Doing a little runaround the NJAC and NSAC is not a smart way for the UFC to do business. It may have worked for Strikeforce, but Dana has to play nice with these guys,

by Hedonismbot on Apr 12, 2011 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

So… what’s the point of having AC in most states if the NSAC is so important? Let them run the whole country…

by Shnak on Apr 12, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Smaller AC’s following the leads of NJ and NV doesn’t mean they should “run the whole country”. It just means that have more influence and experience with MMA.

Still a Beer Monster.

http://www.instrength.com

by Tim Burke on Apr 12, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

It also means that Kizer has the monopoly of MMA. Better start bowing down to the almighty MMA God, Kizer!

by Shnak on Apr 12, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

If that was the case, Sonnen would’ve been cleared to coach on TUF…

by Shnak on Apr 12, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Chael flat out lied and drug Kizer into it

That’s a personal thing between him and Chael.

Do you know how many Zuffa employees have worked for the NSAC?

"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."

by TheFilt on Apr 12, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

How many?

I want names and positions.

by Gideon Jay on Apr 12, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Marc Ratner, for one,

was the executive director of the NSAC.

I’ve heard of at least one other recently but can’t remember her name.

"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."

by TheFilt on Apr 12, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly

Ratner’s old job, is Kizer’s new one.

"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."

by TheFilt on Apr 12, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Zuffa and the NSAC relationship resembles that of the relationship between the Pentagon and military contractors. No risk of anyone acting with ulterior motives there, huh?

by John Nash on Apr 12, 2011 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not a bit

They act for the general welfare.

"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."

by TheFilt on Apr 12, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

At least three that I know of

And I’m basically ignorant when it comes to these kind of things.

Not to mention the positions they held/hold in both organizations.

"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."

by TheFilt on Apr 12, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

The commission only has 5 members.

by John Nash on Apr 12, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ok, but you’re saying that Kizer is basically an employee of the UFC. What I’m saying is that if that was the case, Sonnen vs Bisping would already be announced as coaches for TUF 14 as that’s clearly what the UFC wants. Kizer’s just playing hard to get at the moment, because he likes to feel he’s in control of something.

by Shnak on Apr 12, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

In short

The last Director of the NSAC is on the UFC payroll.

"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."

by TheFilt on Apr 12, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I understand that. But Kizer’s playing hardball here with Sonnen and screwing up the UFC’s plans. Not exactly how a UFC employee would behave, now is it?

by Shnak on Apr 12, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

You’re not understanding the spot he’s in. He still has a job to do and an image to uphold. You can be close with the UFC without doing everything they ask you to do.

Still a Beer Monster.

http://www.instrength.com

by Tim Burke on Apr 12, 2011 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Like I said

Not far from one.

He’s making things a bit difficult, but if he wasn’t he wouldn’t be doing his job as director of the NSAC.

"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."

by TheFilt on Apr 12, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because Sonnen completely undermined the body he ostensibily works for: the Nevada State Athletic Commission. This has nothing to do with Kizer making a power play, this has everything to with Kizer standing up for his and his commissions reputation.

by John Nash on Apr 12, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

What I think they are getting at is

Kizer is a defacto future UFC employee, based on precedent, which is entirely possible.

Bottom line – you can’t publicly thumb your nose at someone who heads a government office with direct influence over you.

The only way this happens is once Kizer is satisfied that Sonnen has publicly apologized and kissed his ass enough…

"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne

by The American Ronin on Apr 12, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Put him up against Maia again

I just want to see him lose.

Matter of fact, do it Brazil, I want to see him lose some teeth.

by simpsycho on Apr 12, 2011 11:12 AM EDT reply actions  

That was brilliant.

I like how he’s still throwing shots at Wandy, yet when he was face to face with him it was “yes sir, thankyou, thankyou” as Wandy called him out. No doubt Sonnen is a fantastic trash talker but he had NOTHING for Wanderlei when he had him backed into a corner.

"Honestly, I've got nothing against Josh Koscheck personally........but the guy's just a dickhead"-Paul Daley

by NE188 on Apr 12, 2011 11:59 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

Pretty much

I’ve seen the video and as much as I dislike Chael I highly doubt he’s afraid of anyone.

But what purpose does a Sonnen v Wandy fight serve? Despite the fact that we all may want him to be great again let’s be honest, Wand isn’t winning the title any time soon so why not just have him in exciting fights that are going to draw and that fans want to see? Wand vs Stann doesn’t exactly sound like that to me, Wand vs Leben does and then maybe we can get Wand vs Belfort after that when he hasn’t sat out for a year.

by TMadeBurner on Apr 12, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

this is all supposing Wand beats Leben which is certainly no forgone conclusion in my mind.

by TMadeBurner on Apr 12, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

And yet when he was face to face w/ Wandy, he had nothing to SAY except “yes, thank you”

by Hardcase on Apr 12, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

And, as we all know, there’s no better place to get in a fight than a moving vehicle.

by skeebop on Apr 12, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who’s saying he HAD to hit the guy? It’s just Chael seemed to be pretty loose w/ the words for Wandy when they weren’t in the same space anymore.

by Hardcase on Apr 12, 2011 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nobody is saying that Chael planned on hitting Wand. I think most of us making this argument are saying that it was apparent that Wand wanted to hit him so why provoke it at that point? Just humor him and keep things professional and then pwn him on the internet until the fight actually happens in a cage.

by Empty Thoughts on Apr 13, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

i cant get a bead on you J.Snow.

Some days you are a bad ass Marine Complaining how the comment section is action packed with cry baby bitches in so many words. You say shit like “Nick Diaz is the greatest man on earth.” I don’t agree always ,but all that is very respectable in my book.
 And then other days you say Wanderlei is out of line for putting a xenophobic bigot in his place.After said bigoted asshole had insulted his friends,his former training partner, his martial art(s?),his language, his culture and his country.
 I think I like U.S. Marine J.Snowden better than Johnathan Snowden Esquire.

"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie

"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com

by the-gentle-way on Apr 12, 2011 1:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I thought Snowden was in the Army.

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by alicks on Apr 12, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

i could have remembered wrong.

The sentiment is the same either way though.

"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie

"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com

by the-gentle-way on Apr 12, 2011 3:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I just believe that it makes the most sense for cage fighters to fight for money. I didn’t say one word about whether Wanderlei was within his rights to discuss his issues with Sonnen.

by Jonathan Snowden on Apr 12, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

A lot of fighters have some damn good street fighting stories.

"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."

by TheFilt on Apr 12, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wasnt implying

He should have stood up and punched Wanderlei, at all. I purely meant that Chael has a big mouth when it suits him, but when someone calls him out in person, he wont even defend his corner, he simply thanked Wanderlei for telling him to watch his mouth.

"Honestly, I've got nothing against Josh Koscheck personally........but the guy's just a dickhead"-Paul Daley

by NE188 on Apr 13, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Probably because Wandy's so hard to understand

People who take anything from that video are just looking for a reason to hate on Chael. If something spoken in English has to be subtitled in English, there’s a pretty solid chance he had no clue what Wand was saying. His reaction was of someone who is awkwardly trying to keep up in a convo that he has no idea what its about, not that he’s shitting his pants scared.

by MemphisMike on Apr 12, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

yea..... i know bitch when i see it.

"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie

"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com

by the-gentle-way on Apr 12, 2011 3:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

I remember TUF US v. UK

Half the British fighters were subtitled. I understood just about every word they said (as well as every word Wanderlei said), but I guess its possible Chael didn’t hear him. But usually when you don’t understand something you say, “Pardon?” or “What?”
 Not “Okay, thanks”

by OptimusPiss on Apr 12, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

But as a fight fan and someone who always slows down to rubber neck at car wrecks on the highway

OK, Kid Nate, it is official. I hate you for that! But I love this post, so I guess I have to give you props.

Heck yeah I want to see Sonnen back in the UFC!!!

I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!

by VeeisAnimated on Apr 12, 2011 11:15 AM EDT reply actions  

UFC froze his contract but did that have any actuall consequences? He was already suspended for a year due to steroids.

Was it more empty posturing by Dana and co?

A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do.

by Obviously5Believers on Apr 12, 2011 11:16 AM EDT reply actions  

empty posturing of course.

I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!

by VeeisAnimated on Apr 12, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

The hypocrisy of Dana sure is frustrating at times

A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do.

by Obviously5Believers on Apr 12, 2011 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

its like he’s out there trying to make money for his business rather than acting as a paragon of virtue for all to follow. What kind of example he setting? What about the children!??!

Getting bent out of shape over a fight promoter lying is like getting upset that a hooker won't kiss you. It betrays a deep lack of understanding of the nature of the profession.

by Stanlee on Apr 12, 2011 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not that at all. Just the way he treats fighters differently for infractions.

A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do.

by Obviously5Believers on Apr 12, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

of course he does. Phil Jackson treated Horace Grant a helluva lot differently than Michael Jordan or Scottie Pippin. If Waylon Lowe climbed into his monster truck emblazoned with his picture on the side and chased Energy Drink Jesus down the wrong side of the street, he’d be unemployed by the end of business hours today.

I’m all for the revolution after which people will be driven by their sense of morality and common decency moreso than their own personal financial interests. I’m just not sure why we’d think a fight promoter would be the one to lead the charge.

Getting bent out of shape over a fight promoter lying is like getting upset that a hooker won't kiss you. It betrays a deep lack of understanding of the nature of the profession.

by Stanlee on Apr 12, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dana is not Sonnen’s coach. When David Stern gives players preferential treatment there is a shitstorm, and rightfully so.

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by Neil Manich on Apr 12, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Stern works for all the owners though and is himself not an owner. The whole league-team dynamic is quite different, since Dana White is a part owner of the UFC his relationship to fighters is more like a franchise owner to his players than a league president to his players.

As an owner, his interest is mainly in the furthering of his company’s bottom line… For Stern, he is more concerned with public perception of the league in general than any individual team’s bottom line. This dynamic goes way back to Kenesaw Mountain Landis and the MLB Black Sox scandal. Landis, the first ever league commissioner, banned the players involved for life, which was not at all what the owners wanted him to do.

Getting bent out of shape over a fight promoter lying is like getting upset that a hooker won't kiss you. It betrays a deep lack of understanding of the nature of the profession.

by Stanlee on Apr 12, 2011 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not expecting Dana to change his ways and lead a crusade promoting basic equality/fairness. Just frustrating is all.

A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do.

by Obviously5Believers on Apr 12, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it’s because (AFAIK) the UFC contracts have duration clauses on them. By freezing his contract, the UFC is making sure Sonnen’s contract won’t expire before they have the time to set up all his contracted number of fights.

by Shnak on Apr 12, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

All it meant was his contract wouldn't expire while he was out dealing with the feds

That’s all it ever meant. The idea that it was some kind of punishment was largely invented by MMA journalists and bloggers.

by KJ Gould on Apr 12, 2011 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

That was strictly to protect the UFC, same thing that would have happened with any fighter in a similar situation legally and contractually.

"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne

by The American Ronin on Apr 12, 2011 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

The hypocrisy of Dana sure is frustrating at times

A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do.

by Obviously5Believers on Apr 12, 2011 11:19 AM EDT reply actions  

I was thinking about the whole ‘spitsgate thing’. Not to get into all that again, but he takes Bisping’s money but “freezes” a fighter who was out for a year already.

A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do.

by Obviously5Believers on Apr 12, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

The whole fight Saturday night this was on my mind

“We do not co-promote.”

No, you don’t Dana. But Strikeforce does apparently.

"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."

by TheFilt on Apr 12, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Is this supposed to be hypocrisy?

b/c I think Dana is plenty hypocritical, but not here.

Now if strikeforce copromotes w/ the UFC, then Dana has some splaining to do.

by jhf884 on Apr 12, 2011 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are you joking?

The whole night was damn near a UFC commercial.

Jake Shield’s got in the cage and did an interview about his fight with GSP half way through Gil’s in-cage interview.

"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."

by TheFilt on Apr 12, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Co-promoting is so far removed from advertising

Of course Dana was pushing UFC and UFC fights. This is still miles removed from co-promotion, which was what this discussion was about, I thought.

Did any UFC fighters fight in SF? No.

by jhf884 on Apr 12, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Promote, in this sense means
a : to contribute to the growth or prosperity of : further

b : to help bring (as an enterprise) into being : launch

c : to present (merchandise) for buyer acceptance through advertising, publicity, or discounting

They don’t have to fight UFC vs SF to co-promote.

"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."

by TheFilt on Apr 12, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

From wikipedia
Co-promotion is a marketing practice where a company uses another company’s sales force, in addition to its own, to promote the same brand or range of brands. The term is frequently confused with Co-marketing.

"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."

by TheFilt on Apr 12, 2011 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

To add

IMO Saturday night was the definition of co-promotion.

Over and over, the announcers would mention the UFC and show UFC fighters on camera. They literally discussed up coming UFC events.

"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."

by TheFilt on Apr 12, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

as used in the M1 v Zuffa debate

Co-promotion was 2 separate entities sharing the costs of putting on the event, supplying the fighters, and sharing the profits. DW refused to do that. But for Zuffa entity A to have commercials and hype during Zuffa entity B doesn’t break any taboos for Dana & co.

I consider myself a softcore fan.

by Thor77 on Apr 12, 2011 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

That is an extremely specific defintion
Co-promotion was 2 separate entities sharing the costs of putting on the event, supplying the fighters, and sharing the profits.

Obviously with SF this cannot be the case because Zuffa owns the company.

What the UFC and StrikeForce did Saturday was the definition of co-promotion.

Co-promotion is a marketing practice where a company uses another company’s sales force, in addition to its own, to promote the same brand or range of brands

"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."

by TheFilt on Apr 12, 2011 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

agreed

but the specific definition is what DW said he wouldn’t do. One Zuffa owned promotion having advertising on another Zuffa owned promotion shouldn’t blow anyone’s mind.

I consider myself a softcore fan.

by Thor77 on Apr 13, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah . . . As often as Dana White contradicted his words with his actions, or offered some quick response . . . I’m used to it. It’s just business.

I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!

by VeeisAnimated on Apr 12, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nate Marquardt is a mid level middle weight? The fuck?

Got the Summer hatin on me cus I'm hotter than the sun. Got the Spring hatin on me cus I ain't never sprung. Winter hatin on me cus I'm colder than ya'll; and I will never I will never I will never Fall.

The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino

by Patrick Tenney on Apr 12, 2011 11:23 AM EDT reply actions  

I thought the same thing?

By this guys standards Machida and Rua are mid and above average LHW’s and Penn and Florian were mid and above average LW’s.

" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "

by aaronb on Apr 12, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Except three of the four guys you mentioned held the belt at one point.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
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by Derek Suboticki on Apr 12, 2011 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, you tell me how you’d qualify a guy who loses all his important fights.

by Shnak on Apr 12, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

The same Chael

Who beat Marquart and the current number 1 contender Okami?

"So, while you're taking a break from the UFC, hanging out at some lame party that your girlfriend dragged you to, I'll man up and watch some goddamn fights like a goddamn adult."
- Mike Fagan

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by Worldisart on Apr 12, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

The same Chael

who has fallen short and lost his biggest fights like against Anderson, Filho, Maia. Works both ways.

by TMadeBurner on Apr 12, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Okami and Marquardt fights were much bigger than the Maia fight. And a lot of people fall short against Anderson Silva… but nobody else has dominated him the way Sonnen did for 23 minutes. Yeah he got caught in the end, but its hard to watch that fight and not come away with the opinion that Sonnen is an elite fighter at 185.

I hate Sonnen as much as anybody, but its important to be able to evaluate his talents and achievements separately from his bullshit.

Getting bent out of shape over a fight promoter lying is like getting upset that a hooker won't kiss you. It betrays a deep lack of understanding of the nature of the profession.

by Stanlee on Apr 12, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

What are you talking about?

I’m not the one knocking down anyone’s accomplishments but if you want to make the argument that Chael Sonnen is a mid level fighter at best than you’re undermining the accomplishments of a lot of fighters in the process.

But hey to each their own and I wouldn’t want your hate of Sonnen to get in the way of a logical argument.

"So, while you're taking a break from the UFC, hanging out at some lame party that your girlfriend dragged you to, I'll man up and watch some goddamn fights like a goddamn adult."
- Mike Fagan

Support independent artists
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by Worldisart on Apr 12, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not trying to downplay his accomplishments

I just think it’s ridiculous to call Marquardt and Okami mid level guys. Probably went about making a point in a curious manner. Just saying I don’t think much separates Marquardt from Okami from Maia from Sonnen. All flawed but able to beat each other on a given night, but I don’t really think Chael is head and shoulders above any of those others.

by TMadeBurner on Apr 12, 2011 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think it's at all ridiculous

To call Marquart a mid level guy. He’s a good fighter but consistently drops the ball against better competition.

"So, while you're taking a break from the UFC, hanging out at some lame party that your girlfriend dragged you to, I'll man up and watch some goddamn fights like a goddamn adult."
- Mike Fagan

Support independent artists
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by Worldisart on Apr 12, 2011 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sonnen, Silva and Okami?

The Sonnen and Okami fights were razor thin decisions. I’d still say that along with Jacare, Marquardt is a top 5 MW.

" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "

by aaronb on Apr 12, 2011 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Sonnen fight wasn’t a razor thin decision, it was a clear 30-27 unanimous decision, no doubt about it. I’ll give you the Okami fight, it was a close fight. For some reason, Marquardt was way too tentative during that fight, like he was afraid to lose or something. But in the end, he did lose that fight.

by Shnak on Apr 13, 2011 7:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

He’s not mid level. He’s like a title shot gatekeeper. That’s unquestionably a high level gig.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
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by Derek Suboticki on Apr 12, 2011 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly

Kind of like a Mir or Nelson at HW – not ever going to beat the true elite, but will beat almost everyone else.

"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne

by The American Ronin on Apr 12, 2011 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

He’s in a very weird place as far as tiers. He’s solidly under the Andersons, Chaels, and Okamis of the world, but above the Palhares’ and Millers. Mid-level is probably a bit harsh, but there is a reason he’s moving down to 170.

"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR

by Rundownloser on Apr 12, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

As much as I dislike Sonnen

I admit him and Bisping on TUF would be funny.

by pud333 on Apr 12, 2011 11:28 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

TUF with Sonnen and Bisping HAS TO HAPPEN

I don’t care what it takes to get it done, even if they have to move the fucking house to Texas or bribe Kizer.

by Rob Young on Apr 12, 2011 11:36 AM EDT reply actions  

For a guy who is 25-11...

people sure seem to talk about him a lot. Guy is an embarrassment to the sport. Of course, these guys (Meltzer, etc.) wanted Chael to succeed so bad because they love the pro-wrestling heel aspect. Remember how they said immediately after the show that it easily sold a million buys (!) based solely on the fact that they loved it so much? They will talk and talk about how Bisping/Sonnen on TUF will do massive numbers and then it will flop just like this Brock season has.

by William Wilson on Apr 12, 2011 11:38 AM EDT reply actions  

25 - 11 . . . . by the numbers alone his career is better than a number of fighters.

(no names, no shots)

I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!

by VeeisAnimated on Apr 12, 2011 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe he gets talked about alot because, I don't know

Beating the crap out of the greatest mixed martial artist in history for 4 rounds just nine months ago is something relevant to our interests?

by Manzanillos Cup on Apr 12, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

The talk about Chael started prior to that, when he was booked against Silva and revealed he had a red-belt in trash talk.

by Hardcase on Apr 12, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

But even before Silva he had basically just soundly beaten two other top 5 middleweights. If he was just a talker, he’d be much less interesting – see McKee. Chael hyped that Silva fight like nothing we’ve seen before and then exceeded everyone’s expectations in his performance. He’s a freaking superstar.

by Manzanillos Cup on Apr 12, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

And he was juiced to the gills.

by TMadeBurner on Apr 12, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

but he didn’t go through puberty so it’s cool.

by TMadeBurner on Apr 12, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Damn what does it take to get a black belt in trash talk these days?

If you can't wow them with brilliance, then baffle them with bullshit.

by DayGeaux on Apr 12, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

A ton of CrackerJack boxes.

by skeebop on Apr 12, 2011 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or Happy Meals

If you can't wow them with brilliance, then baffle them with bullshit.

by DayGeaux on Apr 12, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I swear people just forget, overlook or refuse to acknowledge

That the guy was on about a week’s supply of testosterone. They call them performance enhancing for a reason. Chael can be a funny guy, but he fought another man in a cage with an obvious advantage. This isn’t baseball, this is combat. I personally completely discount/discredit/negate that performance.

"Tact is the knack of making a point without making an enemy."
~Sir Isaac Newton~

by warren305 on Apr 12, 2011 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Say what you want about Meltzer, but his PPV numbers aren’t things he is just pulling out of his ass, they’re based on information. It was proven wrong in that case, but it wasn’t predicted for a high rating based on Dave liking it. It was based on information and a trending model.

Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 12, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seriously, Arnold?

His attempt at belittling Sonnen’s career is one of the best I have ever seen. I have always been adamant about the lack of depth at MW, but who are legitimately better MWs for Chael to have beaten in the UFC, or MMA at large?

His snarkiness has never bothered me that much, but historionics always irks me.

by Disco-Platypus on Apr 12, 2011 11:45 AM EDT reply actions  

Ah Chael

way to takes shots at a legendary heavyweight whom you have no chance of fighting and who Dana White said wouldn’t fight for the UFC again.

My sides hurt from laughing so much.

by TMadeBurner on Apr 12, 2011 12:00 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

Probably.

Not jumping guys in hospitals or w/ his boys in the cage after the fight is over would help too though, maybe.

by Hardcase on Apr 12, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

The game Nick needs to play

is the one where he doesn’t talk about his employer being out to get him, say he’ll continue to smoke weed despite CSAC testing, or no show for what ever event he chooses.

If Nick wanted to flip someone off, throw water bottles at Mayhem backstage, make nonsensical rants(about anything other than the UFC) and mean mug everyone in the world I think Dana would be cool with that.

95% of what Diaz does draws the ratings and is fair game, the remaining 5% is just dumb and counterproductive.

"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."

by TheFilt on Apr 12, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

TUF

I see Bisping breaking the first door..

by LosLurkos on Apr 12, 2011 12:41 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

He tries way way too hard. That type of schtick is old.
I half expected the comedic cymbal crash afterwards. Yuk yuk.

He needs to pick his spots a little more, and not try and force a joke into every single statement that hits the media.

my band
http://www.groggybikini.com

by Dooda on Apr 12, 2011 12:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Or...

You mad?

Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."

by xFenixKnightx on Apr 12, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did it seem mad? More like rolling my eyes at the kid that is drunk with attention going out of control.

my band
http://www.groggybikini.com

by Dooda on Apr 12, 2011 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

If Chael Sonnen’s testicles worked, I’d want him to father my children.

"Ellismania is, along with the black President, a symbol of the future." - Mayhem Miller
Tweeter!

by alicks on Apr 12, 2011 12:48 PM EDT reply actions  

I’ve been flamed for this but I seriously can’t wait for Sonnen to come back. He is the next level UFC star. Not only does he have the fighting skills but he has the elite level of mic skills and trash talk to hype promotions, fights, and just knows how to tell a great story line. Seriously writers at pro wrestling wish they could come up with a heel persona like this or intwine said character into deep story lines involving roids, money scandals, and comebacks.

by Matt Benson on Apr 12, 2011 12:53 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Don't forgot

borderline racist comments!

Chael Sonnen, something for everyone.

by TMadeBurner on Apr 12, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or

He’s a journey man wrestler who jacked himself up on roids and had a run of success as direct result of said steroids. He’s Sammy Sosa, not Barry Bonds.

"Tact is the knack of making a point without making an enemy."
~Sir Isaac Newton~

by warren305 on Apr 12, 2011 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shhh

don’t say that. A certain “gangster” (because Chael uses correction pronunciation!!) from Oregon will mess you up and then succumb to your submission attempts.

by TMadeBurner on Apr 12, 2011 12:58 PM EDT reply actions  

If Lesner cannot fix TUF ratings

Sonnen has no chance. I know all the hardcores on here think there’s something special about him, and he’s some sort of epic ratings heel.

But casuals still don’t know who he is and i doubt that will change. If they want to fix TUF they need to do something new with it. It almost seems the UFC has the same idea about TUF as they do with the PPVs. How many years are we going to have the same music and gladiator?

With the PPV there is no point in spending money and updating the product, they are making more money tan ever before. But with TUF they need to do something, and really… sonnen isn’t going to fix the ratings, the show is just stale. It feels like i’m watching the same thing every season.

Sheeeeeeeee-it

by Clay Davis on Apr 12, 2011 3:32 PM EDT reply actions  

^This

"Tact is the knack of making a point without making an enemy."
~Sir Isaac Newton~

by warren305 on Apr 12, 2011 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

If Sonnen and Bisping had any KO power, I'd love to see a double knockout. But this:

“dominating Silva in every aspect of the fight for four and one half rounds”

is starting to get a bit tiresome. Go back to crazybones’ fan post:

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/8/9/1614522/anderson-silvas-fight-iq

to see a lot of fine points regarding Sonnen’s fight against Silva. The gist of it is: Silva was fighting with unbelievable intelligence, and Sonnen’s wrestling-based dominance (with some unexpected success in striking in the first round) diminished as the fight went on. Until the submission Silva caught him in was not a matter of luck, but of confidence, skill and constant work.

by Yul B. on Apr 12, 2011 4:06 PM EDT reply actions  

sonnen should nopt be allowed back , he is a blatent cheat , liar and crook, and totally doesn’t have any morales or loyalty to his criminal partners ( he just testified against them). is this how you want mma to be represented, its no wondwer new york wants nothing to do woith it. sonnen fought and won fights against marquart and okami while on hrt ( his own words and figures he produced at his appeal hearing in cali, mean while nevada HAD NEVER LICENSED HIM OR APPROVED HIM FIGHTING WHILE ON HRT . in fact he shoulkd be suspened and fined for those fights , i kbnow all we have for evidence is sonnenas testomony , well if not suspened and fined then he should charged with perjury for false statements at his appeal hearing., he definately shouldn’t be rewarded with a high profile job as a coach on tv , so he can tell more lies and make a bigger mokery of the athletic commissiopns. i sure hope the people who actually care about the integrety of this sport don’;t support sonnen. .

by robbyedRobby Edwards on Apr 12, 2011 8:15 PM EDT reply actions  

I totally agree Nate

I would also love to see Sonnen vs Bisping for the next TUF, in fact that may be about the only way I would be interested at all. Many people are acting like Chael took their mother’s retirement fund or something, or loaded his gloves with plaster like Luis Resto. He used a PED, which by most accounts a good deal of pro mma fighters do. He took part in a shady real estate deal, and he got caught and had to face charges in court. None of these things make him a role model or a particularly great guy, but I’m still amazed at all the self righteous MMA fans and pundits that act as though he’s a convicted rapist or Bernie Madoff. I find him to be a sometimes entertaining and very talented fighter who will likely make Bisping have a nervous breakdown before beating his ass for three rounds if they are put on TUF against each other. That sounds like fun to me.

by Anton Chigurh on Apr 12, 2011 9:02 PM EDT reply actions  

I don’t care for that lay and pray wrestling BS, but if your a wrestler that isn’t afraid of anyone and you take people down to beat on them then I’m a fan. Use the takedown to hurt people not to score points. I’m a fan of Sonnen because he makes me laugh and fights his ass off.

All your doing is spewing garbage with no sense of order or articulation whatsoever. - SimplePsych

by frosty31 on Apr 12, 2011 9:56 PM EDT reply actions  

I can dig this.

Even with his inconsistencies, I’ve been a fan of Chael since I first saw him fighting back in the WEC. I’m now just a bigger fan of Chael 2.0 and his ability to get so much fan/press heat.

by Empty Thoughts on Apr 13, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

About TUF's revival

they need a different format

and for gods sake, some heavier classes!!

The comeback was an awesome one because they were fighters that were already in the UFC

I suggest a format that involves a tournament.

8 fighters, every few weeks a tournament and the finalists fight on the finale

coaches keep training those fighters till then

by elmojo on Apr 13, 2011 12:24 AM EDT reply actions  

For fucks sake Chael please shut up.

You talked yourself into the fight with Anderson and proved that you belonged, and do belong at the top of the sport. Now just shut up and let your fighting do the talking.

by vicesquad26 on Apr 13, 2011 7:57 AM EDT reply actions  

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