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Research Challenge: Distribution of Win% Across Reach Differences

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Promoted by Mike Fagan.

Here's your winner of the inaugural FightMetric Research Challenge. Congratulations to PistonHyundai. Additional congratulations go out to everyone who participated. Rami and I are both very happy with the turnout, though that's to be expected with the Bloody Elbow community.

What's next? We're looking for another question for the community to answer in April. What do you want to see? Leave your suggestions in the comments.

 

Ok, here goes nothing.

So far, there's been some great legwork done on the correlation between reach advantage and fight results. Here's a brief recap before I introduce my analysis:

 


Sample
w/ Reach Advantage
Wins Losses Win%
Depth Level 1
All Fights 687 638 51.8%
Depth Level 2
Decisions 231 265 46.6%
Finishes 456 373 55.0%
Depth Level 3
(T)KOs 253 199 56.0%
Subs 203 174 53.8%

 

When you consider MMA's dynamism as a sport, and facts like 1.) submission victories not necessarily resulting from ground-heavy fights and 2.) knockouts not being exclusive to stand-up wars, it's reasonable to say that these figures do indeed suggest an advantage for rangier fighters. At the very least, the results merit a closer look.

I feel that it would be very useful to examine the distribution of win percentages across the spectrum of reach differences. A direct relationship between win rate and the amount of reach "advantage" would lend more credibility to the idea of reach as a literal advantage. An inverse relationship would obviously suggest the opposite, although it would still highlight reach as a (weird) influence on fight results. An undecipherable cluster of data points would damage the reach advantage theory. Accordingly, I've prepared a series of histograms to explore the possibilities of such relationships.

 

How to Read These Graphs (Important)

It's no lie: these graphs are a little clunky. But I couldn't think of a better way to express the necessary data, and I promise that just a bit of explanation will make things significantly clearer:

  1. The X axis tracks the difference in inches between the fighters' reach. "1" includes all differences greater than 0 and equal to 1, etc.
  2. The last X value includes all reach differences greater than 8 inches because beyond that, there just weren't enough fights per inch to generate defensible percentages.
  3. The Y axis only pertains to the orange/red longer reach win% bars. The blue bars represent the total number of fights featuring each respective reach difference, and are only meant to convey the relative amounts of data that were available for calculating the percentages.

Let's jump right in with the graph for the whole population.

DEPTH LEVEL 1

First things first: the most obvious trend is portrayed by the blue bars. To wit, as the reach difference increases, the number of fights in the data pool consistently decreases. This is a natural result of weight class stratification and probably matchmakers' preference for pairing similarly-sized fighters within those classes. 331 fights commenced with a 1 inch or shorter difference, while only 20 fights represent freakish differences of 8 or more inches. The important thing to take away is that shorter blue bars indicate less reliable orange/red win% bars.

Star-divide

Speaking of win%, a direct relationship is clearly delineated here. On the side of the histogram with the most data, win% increases steadily along with reach difference. Even in the less populated categories that happen to buck the trend, win% still breaks the halfway rate in favor of rangier fighters. Looks like there's something to this "reach" business. Now, let's break it down further to isolate decisions from finishes.

DEPTH LEVEL 2

The Decisions histogram effectively demonstrates the potential buckshot I mentioned earlier, but there's still an important relationship to point out: looking back at the raw percentages, fights ending by judges' decision least correlated with reach advantage. Being that this is the only examined sample to favor fighters with shorter reach, combined with its sporadic win% distribution, it seems likely that over the course of a complete sanctioned MMA bout (with more time for each fighter to execute a variety of skills), reach just loses influence.

On the other hand, finishes appear to correspond to reach advantage quite favorably. Observe the consistent increase between and including the 2 and 5 inch categories, and the overall direct relationship, despite slight anomalies in underrepresented reach differences. This appears to be where reach truly matters.

One last sample division drills the point even further: (T)KOs vs. Submissions.

DEPTH LEVEL 3

The graphs support the commonly accepted notion that a reach advantage is most heavily favored during striking portions of a bout. Longer-limbed fighters boast more than 70% of the knockout victories in three of the reach difference categories (with, yet again, a direct relationship between percentage and size difference). Submission rates are less linear throughout the spectrum, but still express an overall upward trend. Purely speculating, this may be reflective of long arms and legs being as vulnerable in certain grappling positions as they are threatening in others.

I'll bring it home with one final diagram. Observe the linear regressions of all five samples:

LINEAR REGRESSIONS

These are the "best fit" or "trending" lines of all the preceding data. Lines that are higher and steeper express stronger positive correlations between reach advantage/difference and win rate. Predictably, (T)KO win% combines the highest Y values with the most dramatic slope. Likewise, Decision win% offers the lowest Y values, but in spite of its wildly distributed data points, it still betrays an upward trajectory over the 9 measurements of reach difference. The fact that all five lines possess positive slopes and most of them cross the 50% mark within the leftmost quadrant indicates not only a direct relationship between reach advantage and rate of victory, but also a supporting relationship between the amount of reach advantage and rate of victory.

Reach matters.

The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.

Comment 54 comments  |  28 recs  | 

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Stats Beast!

When I read about the contest, I thought you might take a pass at it. Seemed right up your alley. Anyway, awesome work, man!

"You son of a bitch, give me my plunger back."
- welterweight contender Josh Koscheck

by Rainer Lee on Mar 9, 2011 2:25 PM EST reply actions  

Thanks man!

The support is much appreciated.

by PistonHyundai on Mar 9, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Words have never given me an erection before

You took MMA and statistics, my two favourite things, and have achieved the impossible

I give you a standing ovation

by Hashmo on Mar 15, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

lol

You’re too kind, sir. Now get that thing away from me.

by PistonHyundai on Mar 15, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is interesting, but these graphs do not establish anything causal about a reach advantage leading to an increased rate of victory. All this analysis does is simply identify a correlation between having a reach advantage and winning, we say that having a reach advantage is affecting the outcome of fights.

by The Effecient Secret on Mar 9, 2011 3:32 PM EST reply actions  

lol

Nah man, I’m not trying to bitch anybody out. I am pretty polite, though.

by PistonHyundai on Mar 10, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks for the input!

I hope you and Moltar will have the time to run some of these tests and share the results, my understanding of more complex probability/stat work is very very limited.

Sorry if the graphs were a little unclear- in both the histograms and the linear regressions graph, the X axis expresses the difference in reach between two opponents, and the Y axis indicates the percent of those bouts in which the rangier fighter was victorious.

As I interpret it, the slope of the linear regressions suggest that, in general, as reach advantage increases, so does win rate. Almost certainly that’s an oversimplification, but it’s really just a test I ran to check if any of the regression lines would have a 0 or negative slope, as that sort of result would have presumably damaged the hypothesis.

by PistonHyundai on Mar 10, 2011 6:26 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm a molecular biologist

My wife completed her PhD and 2 post docs in Epidemiology over the past 10 years so I’ve been exposed to a LOT of stats stuff listening to her practice presentations/posters etc.

I wanted to say that BorisK here does a very nice job of explaning a lot of pretty hard core stuff in lay-person’s terms.

Rec’d for awesome

by hardlyworking on Mar 10, 2011 1:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Do you drive a Dodge Stratus?

You know Joe, Brandon Vera is considered to be a Heavyweight George St.Pierre because he just comes, comes, and comes again... -Mike Goldberg, UFC 57

Cheick Kongo looks like a cross between Evander Holyfield and pop singer Seal!
Melvin Guilard looks like a little Kevin Randelman!
-Mike "All black people look alike to me" Goldberg, UFC 62/64

by Jonnycaz2.0 on Mar 15, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bingo.

"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.

by The Darkness on Mar 16, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Interesting

It seems that those with a reach advantage in MMA, while not that much more likely to win, are more likely to FINISH. However, it also seems that they’re more succeptible to losing via decision.

At a very superficial level, it seems that this would be because of the advantages length can have for distance striking, as well as length on the mat. However, stockier wrestlers can also shut down those lanky Muay Thai/ BJJ prototypes with their strength from the clinch and top control.

You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/

"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates

by ElliotMatheny on Mar 9, 2011 5:13 PM EST reply actions  

That's what I was imagining as well.

Common sense dictates that there must be situations in which reach is almost assuredly a disadvantage. It’s certainly possible that those situations manifest more frequently in the histograms with really wacky contours.

by PistonHyundai on Mar 9, 2011 6:09 PM EST up reply actions  

It's all about the individual fighters, and how they use their reach.

Since MMA has so many different facets, many fighters never learn how to strike properly, which includes being able to use your length to keep range.

Stefan Struve certainly has a reach advantage over 99.9% of HW’s, but has been tagged repeatedly by his opponents, including Roy Nelson (who he’s nearly a foot taller than). If he ever learns how to jab, Struve will be a monster.

You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/

"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates

by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 8:38 AM EST up reply actions  

well done

this challenge was right up your alley, huh. when i read the launch of the contest, i IMMEDIATELY thought of how excited you must have been. get some new colors, though. these make my eyes freak out.

by burmie on Mar 9, 2011 9:43 PM EST reply actions  

Dude

Those are the default Open Office colors! Also, are they red or orange for you? It’s different for me on every computer, but the blue ones are always blue. Makes me wonder what root man is doing out here in the desert.

by PistonHyundai on Mar 10, 2011 6:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Been really excited since the challenge was announced to see what you’d do with this. Great work bro.

Conducting an experiment on knocking people out in particular ways would be unethical.

by Chris Hall on Mar 10, 2011 12:39 AM EST reply actions  

God Damn!

How did i forget to rec you!

Conducting an experiment on knocking people out in particular ways would be unethical.

by Chris Hall on Mar 10, 2011 2:01 AM EST up reply actions  

and done

Conducting an experiment on knocking people out in particular ways would be unethical.

by Chris Hall on Mar 10, 2011 2:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Thanks!

Can’t say it’s the most exhaustive analysis out there, but it looks pretty cut and dry, right? You have to figure that every once in a while, a simple explanation can hold up under scrutiny.

by PistonHyundai on Mar 10, 2011 6:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Isn't that Occam's Razor?

No reason to make shit complicated if simple will do.

I think your histograms really do a nice job, and I like that you explained how as the # of samples in a bin decrease that variance can start throwing wrenches, its not something that everyone would think to mention.

by hardlyworking on Mar 10, 2011 1:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Thank you

It never ceases to amaze me, the different walks of life everyone in this community comes from. Isn’t this “Martial Arts Mix” thing supposed to be for white supremacists?

by PistonHyundai on Mar 11, 2011 3:25 AM EST up reply actions  

I always thought it was Ockham's Razor

But I just googled it, and they’re interchangeable. Learn something new every day I guess!

http://www.headkicklegend.com/

"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates

by ElliotMatheny on Mar 15, 2011 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Damn good stuff.

I wonder what fights had the difference of +8in?

@scb0212
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 11, 2011 11:30 AM EST reply actions  

Thank you sir!

I would have assumed that most of those freaky fights happened in Japan, but as far as I know, no Japanese promotions were dragged for data. They can’t all be Jonny Bones fights, lol.

by PistonHyundai on Mar 11, 2011 5:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Struve should of donated a few of those, at least one against Nelson I would think.

by Storry on Mar 16, 2011 8:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

The one I was most interested in...

…was the one where a 69.5"-reach fighter KO’d a guy with 82.5"-reach.

Did a little digging and found out it was Doug Marshall vs. Justin McElfresh at WEC 27.

None more gangster.
Tweeter!

by alicks on Mar 16, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great stuff!

I also hope it’s not to douchebaggy to link to one of my own posts that says basically the same thing but nowhere near as clearly explained. http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/3/12/2045916/research-contest-revisited-correlations-and-r-square-values

And if there as some people here who really know their loglinear regressions I would love to get some comments on the regression analysis that I did.

by Wintermute on Mar 15, 2011 3:43 PM EDT reply actions  

This was a great partnership. Some good stuff came out of this. Our readers are smart*

*subo not included. your mileage may vary. void where prohibited.

by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 15, 2011 3:54 PM EDT reply actions  

Well done PistonHyundai

My inner MMA nerd is happy, thank you!

"I am very confident this fight can go either way"

by SpL on Mar 15, 2011 3:55 PM EDT reply actions  

Topic Suggestion:

How important is an edge in UFC/PRIDE experience? ie is a fighter with more fights/wins in the big leagues more likely to beat a fighter with less of that experience?

Might be tough to do but I didn’t want to suggest something else straight out of the tale of the tape (height, age, etc.)

"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard

by lowellthehammer on Mar 15, 2011 4:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Uhhhh

This is beyond flattering. Thank you to Mike and Rami and all my fellow community members that were kind enough to give this a read.

If you really want to shit a brick, do a search on BE for “research” and read as many of the FanPost results as you can handle. They all highlight various intriguing approaches to the subject, and some of them were written by serious probability & statistics black belts. Thanks again, and don’t text and drive!

by PistonHyundai on Mar 15, 2011 4:20 PM EDT reply actions  

What would you like to see us offer next?

by Mike Fagan on Mar 15, 2011 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Damn, I’m already digging lowellthehammer’s and apk’s suggestions— but I’ll report back if I think of a good one.

by PistonHyundai on Mar 15, 2011 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is there a way to compare PRIDE rules vs. Unified Rules? What metric would be used, what question to ask?

@scb0212
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 15, 2011 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tough sell.

Relatively few PRIDE fights compared to fights contested under Unified rules, even in the UFC. Plus it took a few events for PRIDE to iron out their ruleset, further cutting into the amount of data that could be used.

"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard

by lowellthehammer on Mar 15, 2011 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Research Topic: Ring Rust

Does the amount of time since a fighters last fight make a difference?

by apk on Mar 15, 2011 5:10 PM EDT reply actions  

I've seen this researched before...

Lemme see if I can’t find the relevant Fanpost/article.

"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard

by lowellthehammer on Mar 15, 2011 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not a complete study, but it’s a start.

"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard

by lowellthehammer on Mar 15, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Another Research Topic: Do Takedown Attempts Set Up KOs?

Just another idea. Some fighters like Bader, have justified failed take-down attempts to set up for an overhand right.

by apk on Mar 15, 2011 5:58 PM EDT reply actions  

how about

does the bigger fighter beat the smaller fighter when they have similar skill level?

"When you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. When you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. When you put it into a teapot, it becomes the teapot... Water can flow... Or it can crash! Be water my friend."
-Bruce Lee

by North Korean Zombie on Mar 15, 2011 6:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Counter argument. Kendell Grove.

I rest my case.

"Clay "The Missing Link" Guida!!!"

by Adamantium007 on Mar 15, 2011 6:38 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

hmm

5-3 before the ufc
7-5 inside the ufc
12-8 overall

what do you think his record would be without that reach advantage of his?

i rest my case.

by Diz D on Mar 15, 2011 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think he was implying more that Kendall, being tall, in an outlier for winning via sub and getting KTFO'd

Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
George Carlin

by Snatchl on Mar 15, 2011 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Piston Hyundai:

Ultimate Stats Champion

"You son of a bitch, give me my plunger back."
- welterweight contender Josh Koscheck

by Rainer Lee on Mar 15, 2011 7:50 PM EDT reply actions  

every time i think of a “rangy” fighter I think of Cole Miller and every time I think of a stocky fighter I think of Sherk.

A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.

by TheCode on Mar 15, 2011 9:27 PM EDT reply actions  

mike tyson

= anomaly/outlier

You gotta pay the troll toll to get into this boy's hole, you gotta pay the troll toll to get in.

by oousty on Mar 15, 2011 10:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Well

Mike’s more of an example of “how you use your reach”. During his days with Cus D’amato, Iron Mike’s greatest strength was his defense. The “Peak-a-boo” style Tyson utilized was revolutionary at the time- cover up, bob from side to side, make opponent miss, get inside, and then throw a vicious combo of punishing uppercuts to the head & hooks to the body. With how fast and powerful Mike was, it was a really hard style to overcome.

It was when D’amato died, and Tyson started training with Roach that his career hit the skids (his vices also had quite a bit to do with it); as brilliant an offensive coach as Freddie is, that style wasn’t great for Tyson. He became enamored with his offense, and that led to his losses to Buster Douglas, Holyfield, etc.

http://www.headkicklegend.com/

"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates

by ElliotMatheny on Mar 16, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I knew this article would win.

Congrats bud, you done good.

http://www.headkicklegend.com/

"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates

by ElliotMatheny on Mar 15, 2011 11:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Thank you!

It was fun to put together. I’m excited for the next one.

by PistonHyundai on Mar 16, 2011 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

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