Three Things You Need To Be a UFC Star: Does Jon Jones Have Them?
What does it take to be a star in the Ultimate Fighting Championship? Not just to headline pay per views or grace the cover of FIGHT! Magazine, but to really draw money, to have a name large enough to make a difference at the box office. Whatever it is, Jon Jones doesn't have it yet, drawing a measly 415,000 buys for UFC 128 in New Jersey.
The New York media, the glowing write ups on MMA websites, the reality television special - none of it was enough. It goes to show something wrestling and boxing promoters have known for years: creating a money drawing star is as much art (and luck) as it is science. Jon Jones may end up being the next big thing. But he may not. If he makes it, historically these are the factors that will be the G.W. Bush's- the deciders:
1. Bad Boy Presence: If you look at the top draws in the history of this sport one thing stands out: besides Georges St. Pierre, none have been wholesome good guys. That's the model the UFC is pushing for Jones. He's constantly telling us how humble he is. Commentators can't get enough of how clean cut and articulate his interviews are. If he talks trash on Twitter, breaks up a united team, or changes management multiple times in a brief career - hey, he's just young and still learning.
What's interesting about the insistence that Jones is the good guy, when all signs point to the opposite being true, is that the "good guy" just doesn't work in MMA. Fans are watching cage fighting, not auditioning a guy to date their sister. They want violence, testosterone, anger and fear. From Ken Shamrock, to Tito Ortiz, to Chuck Liddell, to Brock Lesnar, the top historical draws have been bad boys, men with an edge. St. Pierre stands alone as the exception (and part of his box office appeal involves his intensely partisan Canadian fans).
Every other lovable, apple pie eating hero who has been pushed to the moon by the UFC brass has failed to make a huge dent. American hero Randy Couture has been an average draw. School teacher Rich Franklin hasn't even hit average - he's the pay per view Mendoza line. Matt Hughes, when he played the humble farm boy, performed so poorly at the box office that Lorenzo Fertitta considered selling the company.
Jones should embrace his inner diva. He's the best and he knows it. There's nothing wrong with that. It didn't stop Michael Jordan or Peyton Manning from selling sneakers and televisions - and it won't stop Jones on Madison Avenue. But a fake humble act and a steadfastly boring facade? That will be a killer. Time to let the id run free; making things interesting is the first step.
2. The Ultimate Fighter: History tells us that the UFC's seminal reality television show is a true starmaker. Before TUF, Hughes was the greatest fighter in the sport, but one they couldn't get people to pay a red cent for. The shows he headlined did a third or sometimes even a quarter of the business Tito Ortiz did - despite Hughes being widely respected as the best fighter in the promotion. It was only after he let his true colors shine on The Ultimate Fighter that Hughes became a fighter fans found worth caring about.
Former Bloody Elbow contributor Mike Rome says fighters become draws by beating stars. That's certainly a piece of it and you can't make it to the top without winning regularly. But reality television is also seemingly a necessary component. Sure, St. Pierre became a star in the insular world of MMA by beating Hughes for the belt. But at the box office, his main events trailed behind Liddell, Couture, and even Ortiz. It was only after a reality TV special called Primetime highlighting his second fight with B.J. Penn that St. Pierre's star really started to shine. There was no stopping him after that - he hasn't drawn less than 770,000 buys since, becoming one of the UFC's most consistent performers.
3. Feuds:St. Pierre's star turn on reality television highlights another important lesson - feuds sell tickets. Some fans find them corny, distasteful, too reminiscent of pro wrestling. But money talks. From UFC 40 when Tito Ortiz and Ken Shamrock blew Zuffa's previous PPV record out of the water, to UFC 61 when they did it again, grudges have been big business. Zuffa caught on quickly. Ortiz-Liddell II at UFC 66 set what appeared to be an unbreakable record with an intense grudge - until Lesnar-Frank Mir II lapped it with their own hate-fest. Rashad Evans and Quinton Jackson became the third all time best selling fight based on incredible heat and tension. With no title on the line, hatred alone propelled the fight into the PPV stratusphere.
That's what gives me great hope for Jones. His upcoming fight with Evans has the potential to be a grudge for the ages. Former training partners collide, a veteran betrayed by the young fighter he took under his wing, a family torn asunder. It's a great story - one that will draw money if played right. Jones has the ingredients here to be a star. He just has to be willing to play the cards he's been dealt, even if that means he has to play the bad guy.
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He should just start a feud with a fan favorite
and become a bad guy.
This sounds familiar….
"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."
by TheFilt on Mar 25, 2011 11:37 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Maybe he should beat the shit out of Chuck Liddell.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Mar 25, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
It definitely would have helped Jones' draw...
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NO! Don't remind me of that thread.
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
Please, Bones, just don't do any musical numbers on youtube making fun of an opponent.
You can say whatever you like; I would love to see you imbrace your inner douche. Please, just don’t do any music.
Man... when the topics re. Jon Jones will end?
I’m really impressed with the ability to create around 3 or 4 columns with Jones as the main character
i think you can get away with not being a "bad-boy"
its okay to be super squeaky clean AS LONG AS….your opponent plays the part of the mean super-villian….every superhero needs a villian
"i hate signatures...that, and hypocrisy"
I thikn the three points should actually concern
Bad Boy A unique, likeable or magnetic personality.
TUF A forum in which you can reach a broader audience and let your personality come out.
Fueds Heat or other opportunities for constant daily PR and headlines
Gretsky, Jordan and Jeter all became megastars without any of these things Snowden listed in the article.
If it seems like everyone around you is an asshole, you are probably an asshole.
by judonerd on Mar 25, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
None of those three
Were professional cage fighters. You’re comparing apples and oranges.
"So, while you're taking a break from the UFC, hanging out at some lame party that your girlfriend dragged you to, I'll man up and watch some goddamn fights like a goddamn adult."
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I believe Jones has the ability to transcend the MMA fan base
and reach the general public. Dude looks good modeling t-shirts and hats. Marketers are going to have a field day with him.
If it seems like everyone around you is an asshole, you are probably an asshole.
Lots of guys look good modeling t-shirts and hats, so what? Fact remains, for the majority of people MMA/UFC/cage fighting, whatever you want to call it, is a complete non-starter. Jones may or may not become a big star in the context of the sport itself, but we’re still a long ways away from seeing someone become a true crossover star from MMA, if we ever end up seeing that.
"So, while you're taking a break from the UFC, hanging out at some lame party that your girlfriend dragged you to, I'll man up and watch some goddamn fights like a goddamn adult."
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You are basing your assumption
on where MMA was. Not on where it can go.
MMA is a sport, no? Do we not believe in it’s viability as spectator entertainment, or are we bunch of self-hating self-segregating anti-social misfits?
If it seems like everyone around you is an asshole, you are probably an asshole.
I'm not a pessimist
I’m a realist. I work for a sports station in Toronto, possibly the biggest market for MMA in North America, and it’s still treated like the red headed step child of so called “real” pro sports. To act like it’s preordained that Jon Jones is going to be some mega sports/cultural icon when there is absolutely no evidence that even supports him becoming the biggest star within his own sport, is just silly.
While it’s true that MMA is bigger now that it has ever been in North America, don’t get it twisted about where the sport actually is and what could happen in the future. If there is going to be a transcendent breakout star in MMA, it’s not Jon Jones or anyone else fighting today, it’s some 14 year old kid in a wrestling gym in some high school in Ohio who’s decided he wants to be the next GSP and no one is going to stop him.
"So, while you're taking a break from the UFC, hanging out at some lame party that your girlfriend dragged you to, I'll man up and watch some goddamn fights like a goddamn adult."
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Sounds like
you just described a 14 year old Jon Jones.
Did you see him on Leno? He killed it. The audience was loving him. Dude is going to be modeling for Nike and Gatorade in 18 months.
If it seems like everyone around you is an asshole, you are probably an asshole.
Based on what?
Based on a single appearance on a talk show? That’s not how the marketing game works, not for pro athletes.
"So, while you're taking a break from the UFC, hanging out at some lame party that your girlfriend dragged you to, I'll man up and watch some goddamn fights like a goddamn adult."
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Based on the fact that JJ is the total package. Give him time. The guy is a natural star with charisma and unprecedented talent, and he doesn’t display any of the self-defeating tendencies that other failed icons have shown.
Does it help that I work in marketing and know what the fuck I’m talking about? I’ve done advertising work for two Chicago sports teams, one company that used athletic sponsorship, and I’ve helped cast stars for multi-year, broad-media national campaigns. I know how the machine works and Jones is a star waiting to happen. Fuckin grandmothers will like the guy.
If it seems like everyone around you is an asshole, you are probably an asshole.
by judonerd on Mar 25, 2011 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
In Marketing here as well Judo has a point
by Papercut Elbow on Mar 25, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
There are a shitload of factors you're overlooking
that will keep him from getting those Nike/Gatorade deals. And oh boy are they doozies.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
There was a guy named Sugar Shane Mosley who was everything that Jones is: insanely gifted, won a big fight against a legend (Oscar), articulate, squeaky clean, and a minority to boot. And you know what? No one cared. Grandmas dont order PPVs. Shane has been toiling away in front of 1000 or so of his closest friends for the past 3 years or so. The moral: squeaky clean and articulate doesnt mean shit to the 300 people who pack a Hooters on Saturday night.
A talk show that helps set trends w/ middle aged mainstream men
….and their wives.
"There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. ~James Morrow
"There is a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot."-Steven Wright
by F'n Clownshoes on Mar 25, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Gretzky, Jordan, and Jeter? Come on.
by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 25, 2011 1:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Can you be more specific?
It’s really hard to debate “Come on.”
If it seems like everyone around you is an asshole, you are probably an asshole.
It can be done, though
Here’s something to practice on
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Mar 25, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Rewatched the first episode today.
Amazing.
“I’m about to be arrested Gob, I don’t have time for your magic tricks.”
“They’re ILLUSIONS Dad! You don’t have time for my ILLUSIONS!”
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 25, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Tricks are what whores do for money
(turns and sees children) or candy!
I have to think the Alliance is going to frown on this.
Fitch is awesome, I don't care what you think...
Bones Jones, future greatest MMAist ever.
I'd just feel much better with an Alliance approved magician.
“Well…go get em son.”
“Fuck off traitor.”
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 25, 2011 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
You’ve selected three of the biggest stars in the history of three enduring mainstream sports. There’s no conceivable connection to an MMA star.
by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 25, 2011 1:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
There’s no conceivable connection to an MMA star.
Explain. Because to me, those three guys were supremely talented, good looking, intelligent athletes who gave great interviews and lent credibility to their sponsorships. Other athletes in their sports who played the bad boy role and fueded with people never attained the height or popularity that those guys did. I can walk into any sports/fitness store and see GSP all over the POP posters, and he got to that level without being a roughneck shit talker. Why is every top star in every sport contradicting your theory, yet you can’t see the connection?
If it seems like everyone around you is an asshole, you are probably an asshole.
professional wrestling is a better comparison
by POW on Mar 25, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
None of them were cage fighters
Why can’t you wrap your head around that? There is an enduring stigma in the mainstream as it relates to MMA, and it’s not going away anytime soon.
"So, while you're taking a break from the UFC, hanging out at some lame party that your girlfriend dragged you to, I'll man up and watch some goddamn fights like a goddamn adult."
- Mike Fagan
Support independent artists
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You’re just enforcing your own stereotype of MMA fans. It’s like being in the early 20th century and saying no one will accept the idea of women voting because no one accepts the idea of women voting.
If it seems like everyone around you is an asshole, you are probably an asshole.
I'm not enforcing any stereotype
I’m pointing out reality.
"So, while you're taking a break from the UFC, hanging out at some lame party that your girlfriend dragged you to, I'll man up and watch some goddamn fights like a goddamn adult."
- Mike Fagan
Support independent artists
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by Worldisart on Mar 25, 2011 2:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You are pointing out an OPINION of reality. Meanwhile Jay Leno showed highlights of Jones kicking Rua in the face and taking him down, and the audience applauded like they had just shown a clip fm the latest PIXAR movie.
If it seems like everyone around you is an asshole, you are probably an asshole.
They exploded when Kirstie Alley showed up too, dude. You ever been to those shows? They’re told when to do that.
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
LOL
so true, so true
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on Mar 25, 2011 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Point taken.
MMA highlights on the fucking Tonight Show is still impressive and a watershed date for the sport.
If it seems like everyone around you is an asshole, you are probably an asshole.
by judonerd on Mar 25, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Didn't Rampage get highlights when he was on?
Conducting an experiment on knocking people out in particular ways would be unethical.
Not sure
But Page was on for a movie, not a fight.
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Head Kick Legend
He was on one of them just before the Machida fight too.
I forget which late show it was tho
Conducting an experiment on knocking people out in particular ways would be unethical.
I absolutely agree with that. But it’s a small step up the huge mountain to mainstream.
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
That's a weird analogy
You’re comparing MMA fighters to legends in mainstream team sports. It’s completely different situation. What he’s saying is correct, even if you don’t want to acknowledge it.
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
“There’s an enduring stigma” and we are never gonna get past it because that’s just the way it is. Harumph.
That’s sorta what I’m hearing, but I’m not buying it. It’s conservative, close-minded thinking.
If it seems like everyone around you is an asshole, you are probably an asshole.
by judonerd on Mar 25, 2011 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Dude, you’re misquoting him now. He didn’t say NEVER. He said we’re not getting past it ANYTIME SOON. Those are very different. He’s not closing the door to optimism, he’s simply stating the reality of today’s MMA landscape.
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
Ok, but why “not anytime soon” when Jones is clearly the type of guy that can make it happen?
If it seems like everyone around you is an asshole, you are probably an asshole.
Because
Even being the biggest star MMA has seen in its short history falls FAR short of Jordan/Jeter-esque fame.
Conducting an experiment on knocking people out in particular ways would be unethical.
Still basing the argument on MMA’s very short and rocky past.
And I’m talking about Jones’ relation to the other fighters in MMA and his own potential for transcendent star power in the manner of those guys. I’m not saying Jones is going to reach Jordan’s fame/ I AM arguing that he will reach Jordan and Gretsky’s fame RELATIVE to his sport. He will be a face for the movement, and he will get high-level sponsorship, and he WILL be talked about by people who have never seen the UFC and its pay-per-views.
If it seems like everyone around you is an asshole, you are probably an asshole.
It’s way WAY too early to put this kinds of expectations on him. He’s 23, never defended the title, never dealt with the pressures of fame, and the heights that you’re talking about, even with the phrase “relative to his sport” in front of it, aren’t even really attainable.
Plus, he has very little in common with Gretzky.
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
"Relative to the sport" is absolutely attainable
Jones could easily become the American GSP, and America is just slightly larger than Canada.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 25, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
No, because “relative to the sport” is an outlier. GSP isn’t the Gretzky of hockey or the Jordan of basketball, or even the Pacman of boxing. The comparison is completely invalid because the definition is invalid in the first place.
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
Do you know what outlier means?
GSP, Gretsky, Jordan and Jeter are all outliers n terms of their popularity, and I believe Jones will achieve the same.
GOOD DAY TO YOU SIR (slams internet door).
If it seems like everyone around you is an asshole, you are probably an asshole.
Ok, then, sigbet:
IF 2 years from now, iJones has sponsorship from either Gatorade or Nike and is the most recognizable athlete in the UFC line-up…
your sig line shall read as follows:
“Totally wrong about that one internet argument from two years back,:
If it seems like everyone around you is an asshole, you are probably an asshole.
That doesn’t even come close to any name you mentioned. Those guys transcended their sports and have legacies long after they retired. Being the most recognizable guy in a company or having major sponsors makes him the Sidney Crosby of a sport, not Wayne Gretzky.
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
You're right
Jones has several betting scandals with his wife and the team he owns ahead of him.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 25, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Several betting scandals? That was Rick Tocchet dude, not Wayne. His wife was betting. Big deal. And it had nothing to do with the Coyotes either. You need to study up a bit before you talk hockey homie.
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
He is at a distinct disadvantage
You being Canadian and all….
Conducting an experiment on knocking people out in particular ways would be unethical.
You are claiming that Sidny Crosby is more recognizable and transcendent than Gretsky? I had to Google his name to even know who you were talking about.
In closing, WE SHALL SEE.
If it seems like everyone around you is an asshole, you are probably an asshole.
I think you read that wrong
Conducting an experiment on knocking people out in particular ways would be unethical.
No, I’m arguing that Jones will pull a Gretsky, not a Crosby, and on a level RELATIVE to MMA, not in overall popularity.
It’s possible that he is misunderstanding my argument.
If it seems like everyone around you is an asshole, you are probably an asshole.
I’d say he understands you’re argument, but disagrees. And I’d have to side with Beer Monster here. At this point in MMA I still have trouble finding people outside of BE that even know what the sport is or who ANY of the fighters are. Until we have more recognition than that, I don’t see anyone transcending into the mainstream even on a relative level to gretsky.
Conducting an experiment on knocking people out in particular ways would be unethical.
Listen, I’ve got my viewpoint, you have yours, I have no fucking clue who Crosby is because I don’t watch hockey, and only time will tell which one of us is right.
If it seems like everyone around you is an asshole, you are probably an asshole.
If you have no clue about hockey, WHY ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT IT?
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
Because I fucking still know who the fuck Gretsky is.
If it seems like everyone around you is an asshole, you are probably an asshole.
You clearly don’t understand his impact on the sport of hockey, or much about him at all. You shouldn’t use guys you don’t understand as a comparsion point.
Dude, if you had to look up who Sidney Crosby was, I feel like I just wasted 20 minutes trying to get my point across. I will bid you adieu for today.
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
You don't think Jones
could have a Gretzky-esque effect on MMA? All time great, the one name people who don’t like MMA know… I think if the UFC handles him right it’s possible.
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
Possible, but it requires a lot of work. Gretzky already gets a leg up being a hockey player. Despite being a (relatively) unpopular sport, people still know what hockey is. It’s not quite so with MMA/UFC.
And that’s also contingent on Jones continuing to win.
None more gangster.
Tweeter!
This is my point. I’m the doofus regular schmo who doesn’t watch hockey and can’t spell Gretzky’s name correctly, but I know he was some sort of Canadian baby face who played on frozen lakes when he was a kid, I know a bunch of american kids started rocking the “Gretzky mullet,” and I know enforcers used to have to smash dudes whenever they would get too close to the little guy.
I know this because he was a transcendent star, and I believe Jones will accomplish the same thing on a level relative to the overall popularity of MMA.
If it seems like everyone around you is an asshole, you are probably an asshole.
We might,
But I don’t think Zuffa is the ownership thats going to pull it off.
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Head Kick Legend
I don't get that
They’ve taken us from barely legal to today. Who’s to say where the limit is?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 25, 2011 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
We already talked about it a bit on twitter.
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
…you think the quality of their commercials and posters are going to hold them back from the mainstream?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 25, 2011 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the quality of their posters and commercials
Are a symptom of the real problem. They’re too conservative. Their big strategy is to stick with what’s worked for them in the past, and what’s worked for them in the past is kind of trashy and cheesey.
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Head Kick Legend
I actually think
The recent PPV view trailers we’ve seen from them (i.e the Shields/GSP trailer) are indicative of the UFC realizing they need to change their marketing plan. I will not be surprised if we start seeing changes like this to other parts of their production as well.
Conducting an experiment on knocking people out in particular ways would be unethical.
I hope so
But I’ll believe it when they send Goldberg.
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Head Kick Legend
That's probably too much to hope for
Goldberg stuck with the UFC in “Dark Ages” and whether we like it/him or not helped them grow. I’d much rather see them pull him off the mic and give him an ambassador to the sport type job. However, I think as long as Goldie wants to announce, they will let him.
Conducting an experiment on knocking people out in particular ways would be unethical.
their posters and promos (and PPV intros) are pretty terrible IMO. Even boring sports (like golf) have updated they’re look and use relevant music etc. to seem more exciting.
by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Mar 25, 2011 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
From Luke Thomas' SB Nation article:
Fighters like Jones aren’t simply rare because of their talent. They’re rare because they can straddle two worlds and excels in both. He’s at once a prizefighter with a brain tuned towards hurting other men for money. He’s also a friendly, engaging 23 year-old kid with funny stories to share around a coffee table with friends. Where other fighters have lopsided lives of pure Spartan existence that never force them to develop skills to speak conversationally, Jones does it with natural aplomb. Where other fighters develop a shtick that covers for a lack of elite skills, Jones is the youngest UFC champion ever.
If it seems like everyone around you is an asshole, you are probably an asshole.
by judonerd on Mar 25, 2011 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well what about Pacqiau then?
Those would be comparable situations no? He’s pretty squeaky clean.
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Head Kick Legend
That makes sense
Kind of like the GSP effect on steroids. (Probably could have worded that better.)
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Head Kick Legend
the Filipino Exemption
sounds like a backup band or a tricky sex move. I like it.
If it seems like everyone around you is an asshole, you are probably an asshole.
Part of GSP’s drawing in my opinion has been that he has had a strong foil to his good guy persona. Thiago Alves vs GSP really didn’t get much attention, but Koscheck, Hughes, Serra, and even Hardy vs GSP got more attention. When GSP is up against someone who is willing to talk trash on him, then it gets interesting.
Check out the C&D Channel on YouTube for MMA reviews, predictions, analysis, and other MMA related content.
Been lurking for a while, but I had to post on this because I never thought I would be typing this next statement: I completely agree with Snowden. I just hope Jones ends up having the same “it” factor when it comes to marketing that he has now as a fighter.
That’s what gives me great hope for Jones. His upcoming fight with Evans has the potential to be a grudge for the ages. Former training partners collide, a veteran betrayed by the young fighter he took under his wing, a family torn asunder. It’s a great story – one that will draw money if played right.
I agree, but for this to work wouldn’t Jones have to be the ‘good guy’ so to speak? Evans, for whatever reason, has become a guy fans love to hate and the feud with Rampage didn’t help matters since everyone loves Rampage.
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 25, 2011 11:46 AM EDT reply actions
No...
because Evans is the wronged teammate in this narrative. He’s the one who’s been betrayed by the youngster he took under his wing, abandoned by his coach and forced into a position he never wanted by the big, bad Dana White. His only redemption is winning a fight he never wanted.
Not that I believe a word of that, but it’s a compelling narrative.
"Don't be intimidated by other teams. You guys got bubble gum cards, too. Let's go." - Buck Showalter
Right.
But I find it difficult to believe that the fanbase is suddenly going to be on Rashad’s side here. He was hated when he KO’d Liddell, he was hated when he (T)KO’d Forrest, and he was hated when he beat Silva and Rampage, the former in a pretty boring fight. That’s a lot of built up animosity that I don’t see reversing very easily. The marketing for this fight should use that fan hatred of Rashad, not waste effort trying to undo it.
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 25, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree, I never understand why people say “for whatever reason” when speaking of Rashad’s fan hatred, as if they cant understand it. How about that goofy in-cage dancing on TUF? Or dancing over Chuck Liddell’s unconscious body, keeping in mind Chuck’s popularity? How about grabbing his dick when he was losing every second to Forrest before once again KOing a fan fave? How about his antics in the cage against Machida in the process of getting utterly destroyed? How about his endless stream of boring fights, including talking huge trash on Rampage only to lay on him for 2 1/2 rounds? How about the endless media hype of Rashad as some kind of elite top tier fighter when any fan with two eyes can see the overwhelming evidence to the contrary? And last but not least, how about his skin color in a sport where it is virtually impossible for a minority to get over with the fans?
I was with you until...
How about the endless media hype of Rashad as some kind of elite top tier fighter when any fan with two eyes can see the overwhelming evidence to the contrary?
You do know he’s only lost once, right?
Fitch is awesome, I don't care what you think...
Bones Jones, future greatest MMAist ever.
You've not got the whole picture
A “bad boy” can be very popular with the fans. Rampage is a “bad boy” for example. It isn’t necessary to be hated if you play the bad boy (although plenty can be, e.g. Kos, Chael). In this scenario, Jones could in fact be the “bad boy” and be popular, while Rashad can be the “nerd/good guy” and be hated. I mean, we generally accept that “nerds” are decent people but who cheers for them over the “Rampage” kinda guy?? This has always been Rashad’s problem. He doesn’t connect with the MMA demographic coz he is too clean, civil, nerdy.
This comment makes little to no sense in response to what I said.
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 25, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm referring to more than just the one quote.
And I’ll add some more here to explain.
You said
Quoted: That’s what gives me great hope for Jones. His upcoming fight with Evans has the potential to be a grudge for the ages. Former training partners collide, a veteran betrayed by the young fighter he took under his wing, a family torn asunder. It’s a great story – one that will draw money if played right.
I agree, but for this to work wouldn’t Jones have to be the ‘good guy’ so to speak? Evans, for whatever reason, has become a guy fans love to hate and the feud with Rampage didn’t help matters since everyone loves Rampage.
My response is that Jones can be the “bad guy” and be popular; while Rashad can be the “good guy/nerd/wronged party” and be hated.
and you say: But I find it difficult to believe that the fanbase is suddenly going to be on Rashad’s side here
I say… I agree, they will not be on Rashad’s side, and it’s not a problem. Jones will be the “loved” possibly “bad boy”; Rashad will be the “hated” nerd.
Ehh
Don’t really follow.
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 25, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok...
You suggest that for the “feud” to work, Jones would have to be the GOOD guy and be loved. And Evans would have to be the “bad” guy since he is hated.
I say, NO, Jones can be a BAD guy and be loved, while Rashad can be a GOOD/NERD/WRONGED guy and be hated. And the feud will work and help generate PPVs.
Clear?
If I keep saying no
will you keep GETTING FRUSTRATED and CAPITALIZING words seemingly AT RANDOM?
Cause if so, no.
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 25, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll take that as a yes.
So wait…who’s the heel again?
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 25, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
42
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 25, 2011 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
How many roads must a man walk down?
Conducting an experiment on knocking people out in particular ways would be unethical.
23
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 25, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait a minute: so ...
… everyone is agreeing with Rashad saying he was betrayed? I’m lost here. Didn’t Rashad encourage Jones to take the title shot? Didn’t Rashad say he’d switch weight classes to avoid fighting Jones? (a move to middleweight would breathe some much needed life into that very top heavy division) What I’m saying here is this: this whole situation was created by Rashad. Had he taken a fight & won while Shogun was recovering, there’s no way Dana gives Jones’ this title fight so early. Heck – if Rashad would’ve lost a fight while Shogun was down, I still doubt Jones would’ve have gotten his shot so early. People forget that before the shocking Post-Bader-beating Title fight announcement every one said, “Jon Jones will definitely be LHW Champion … in 2012”. Rashad’s insistence upon remaining idle cost him cash, fans & the tutelage of the Great Greg Jackson while also accelerating the UFC’s push of Jon Jones to warp speed.
I used to defend Rashad tooth & nail amongst my friends, but right now I refuse to support this whole victim/woe-is-me sham of an act he’s pulling here. Had he manned up from the get-go, he wouldn’t be dealing with this unfortunate turn of events.
PS – if he does make a move to middleweight after Jones mauls him in their fight, I’ll be back to support him
I'm not at all
I think Rashad is delusional and whining. I’m just suggesting a PR narrative that could sell.
"Don't be intimidated by other teams. You guys got bubble gum cards, too. Let's go." - Buck Showalter
if it was merely a narrative
then i agree. but rashad was not the one that was wronged, he wronged himself by wiating. jones said he’d never challenge evans for the title, that doesn’t make him a dick for saying that if rashad comes knocking for a shot he would give it to him. he is, however, a dick for answering that question before he was champ. thats the only thing hes done wrong in my book. rashad wasnt abandoned by his coach, he abandoned his coach. he left, he was not told to leave.
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Mar 25, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
You're letting facts get in the way of good PR
"Don't be intimidated by other teams. You guys got bubble gum cards, too. Let's go." - Buck Showalter
by duck on Mar 25, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I’ll never be able to imagine the person that looks at an MMA card and says “man, will a little more manufactured drama I’d buy it, but right now, it’s just a bunch of good fighters fighting each other.”
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Mar 25, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
You're supposed to respond on a subconscious level
Frank Mir’s trash talking totally suckered me into buying UFC 100.
"Don't be intimidated by other teams. You guys got bubble gum cards, too. Let's go." - Buck Showalter
hahahaha
well put…
its like letting VD get in the way of great sex
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Mar 25, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
This is so untrue. Casual fans LOVE Jones – or the ones that know of him, anyway. The Internet hate is a weird, weird thing, but that’ll probably go away in ~3 months.
Yeah
Non-internet fans that know who Jones is can’t get enough of him.
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Bones and Evans for TUF 14 coaches..
Where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence.
~ Mohandas Gandhi
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Mar 25, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
slightly off topic...
….but is the Rushfit series over? There hasn’t been one in a month and I feel like it hasn’t been wrapped up.
Whatever it is, Jon Jones doesn’t have it yet, drawing a measly 415,000 buys for UFC 128 in New Jersey.
So is that the final tally, or speculation? because Meltzer isn’t always right on the buy rates
by TheBiggertheyare... on Mar 25, 2011 11:49 AM EDT reply actions
Agree, agree, agree.
I think the UFC recognizes this and has been trying to create a grudge match between Jones and Evans — why else bring in Evans into the cage after Jones just won the belt? I wouldn’t even be surprised in a year or so Jones is coaching against a “bad boy” or even Evans.
Oh and,
School teacher Rich Franklin hasn’t even hit average – he’s the pay per view Mendoza line.is a great line.
I don't necessarily think he has to be a "bad boy".
Some people who are not fans yet already think of all fighters as “bad boys”, anyway. I think a “good guy” can pull in people who might not normally be fans. As a good guy, he might not be as big a hit with existing MMA fans but he could have broader appeal to new fans. Personally, I usually like the good guys but that’s probably just me.
Good stuff, but you forgot one:
The ability to speak English.
It sucks, but its true.
by CaptnAmerca on Mar 25, 2011 11:51 AM EDT reply actions 5 recs
I’m not sure if that is 100% correct….it all depends on if you consider Fedor a draw. I think the clarification is, the ability to speak English IF you are a person of color.
Fedor is not a draw.
A draw can sell 100,000 PPVs by himself, let alone on a stacked card.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
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by Derek Suboticki on Mar 25, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
It may not be a pre-requisite...
But it is pretty damn important. Maybe there could be a truly gifted martial artist who doesn’t speak English who people could get behind… if he had all the other key characteristics in spades.
I would say Anderson could have been a bigger draw if:
1) He wasn’t SO dominant over his opponents
2) He didn’t dick around with some of his opponents and lose some support that way
3) He was more willing to engage if his opponent goes to ground (Leites, Maia) and challenge himself on their turf
Let me add:
Anderson could also have been more willing to engage first rather than counter on the feet, in some of the situations I’ve seen in his fights… rather than taunting and waving for his opponents to attack him
Yeah, I wish I could see an alternate history to find out what his draw would be like
without the Leites and Maia fights. (or if he didn’t piss everyone off at those fights)
What’s interesting about the insistence that Jones is the good guy, when all signs point to the opposite being true, is that the “good guy” just doesn’t work in MMA.
It’s true he might not resonate with people who are fight fans already. Another way to look at it is that he might blow the doors open with the mainstream. I mean, so far we’ve had pretty intimidating and inarticulate guys like Liddell, Rampage, Kimbo, and Lesnar represent the sport.
What happens what a charming young man becomes the face of MMA? And what happens when that man constantly drops positive-thinking lines that could’ve come out of The Secret? I tihnk he’s gonna make MMA seem like an okay sport to a lot of older people, especially women.
by crazybones on Mar 25, 2011 11:57 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Off Topic: What about RUSHFIT?
Jonathan, did you ever finish RUSHFIT after being sick? Seems like it stopped after week 5.
What were your results? Your wife’s?
"Jones should embrace his inner diva"
Really??
Also, I don’t think he needs to have a bad boy image. If he keeps whooping asses people will wanna pay to see his fights
by RashadsLeftNipple on Mar 25, 2011 12:04 PM EDT reply actions
If he keeps whooping asses people will wanna pay to see his fights
It would seem so but there have been a number of cases that disprove this, Silva/Hughes/Franklin coming to mind.
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 25, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Thats completely incorrect. Talent has nothing to do with it. Anderson Silva has been whooping people’s asses for years and cant draw flies unless matched up with a criminal racist. Chris Leben, on the other hand, is a seeming train wreck who loses every other fight and can co-main event any time.
Yeah but Silva has had some negatives take away from that potential
Due to his boring fights with Cote, Leites, and Maia. Especially his antics in the cage with Maia (for me at least)
by RashadsLeftNipple on Mar 25, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I see what you're doing.
You don’t want to Jones to embrace his inner diva because you want the spotlight for yourself. You’re not fooling anyone!
None more gangster.
Tweeter!
If I see Jones bring out his inner diva
I’m handing him a Snickers bar
by RashadsLeftNipple on Mar 25, 2011 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn't read the article because I know Jones has what it takes to be a star
Regardless of whatever “three things” Snowden thinks a person needs to be a star.
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
Didn't read the article, still commented on it cause I wanted attention.
LOOK AT ME GUISE I DON’T LIKE SNOWDEN LOLOLOL
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 25, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good luck cracking that impenetrable counter-argument, Snowden.
by CaptnAmerca on Mar 25, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
lmao
He is the joey tribbiani of this blog.
He hasn’t figured out what putting something in quotes means.
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
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by the-gentle-way on Mar 25, 2011 1:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Joey was the shit dude
Funny, loyal, good with the ladies, successful in his professional career…
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
Why don't you write a fanpost then if you know what it takes
Then I’ll skip the article and comment on it anyway
by MemphisMike on Mar 25, 2011 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
I dont know what it takes
No one knows. Star quality is an unquantifiable intangible.
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
Uhm... I dont get it?
Do you know who that is in my avatar or where its from? Or am I missing something? Another Joey Tribbiani moment perhaps?
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
Did I just royally confuse something?
Somebody with a (young) Brando pic in his avator talking about starpower. Brando was one of the first mega stars (the bought your own island type).
Am I totally off base here?
oh yeah totally
I guess I always think of the avatar as Terry Malloy more than Marlon Brando. I think Brando serves to the point though. No one knows what makes a star, you can’t just produce them. Its something no one has a handle on. What do Greg Peck and Brando have in common? Nothing but they were both stars.
MMA’s is hardly far enough in its infancy to have a large enough sample size to even pretend to be able to predict whether a person can or cannot be a star simply because he has no TUF or “bad guy” persona.
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
OK thanks for explaining.
That makes sense- since MMA doesn’t really have stars like that, we’ll have a hard time seeing exactly what it takes to be one.
You’ve also given me a good Netlix idea for the weekend. BTW- check out Last Tango in Paris. Brando uses butter to… well it’s pretty cool what he does.
ive opted not to watch that
as the actors in it seem to have been pretty traumatized by it and i dont really respect the director for that.
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
I respect that.
In that case, you can just you tube the scene. It’s the famous one.
HAHAHAHAHAHA
w.
o.
w.
who are you and how can i be alerted when youve made a comment
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on Mar 25, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s a clear disconnect between this:
Didn’t read the article because I know Jones has what it takes to be a star
And this:
I dont know what it takes No one knows. Star quality is an unquantifiable intangible.
by Soraldo Babalu on Mar 25, 2011 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Bones star is definitely rising
I’ve had several coworkers ask about him since Sat and they NEVER ask about any UFC fighters.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
I watched UFC 128 at a bar and I thought the PPV numbers would be MUCH higher.
When JBJ landed his first takedown on Shogun, the bar got LOUD. It was pretty epic. I’m loving how his future looks (hopefully in New York one day soon)
You know how it is. If he wasnt a PPV draw on before Sat, he is now. A ton of people will not want to miss his fights from here on out. I’m hoping Dana does a UFC Primetime with Bones vs Hashad! =)
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Mar 25, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
The bar I was at
Seemed particularly Shogun-centric. When Buffer was all “Maureeecio SHOGUN HOOOOO-AAAAAAH” the whole bar yelled the HOOOO-AAAAH with him.
But then JBJ brought out the woopass and people flipped sides mid-fight.
by hardlyworking on Mar 25, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
give jones 3 more wins with insane ko's/submissions
+ the UFC marketing = hugely popular
"Live fast, die." ~ GG Allin
This is what I'm thinking
Its still really early for Jones. We all know him and what he can do, but we’re the exception.
If he become the dominant champ a lot of people think he can be you’ll see his PPV buyrate rise quickly. His next 2-3 fights will be very important to him and the UFC. If he continues to destroy people in the marquee LHW division there is no way he will not become a star.
Conducting an experiment on knocking people out in particular ways would be unethical.
Jones is a cocky dude.
Dude showboated after his first takedown in MMA. He’s self-assured and cocky and he needs to embrace that. Fuck the faux-humble “I have too much respect for my opponents” nonsense. When you can calmly brutalise your opponents to the extent that Jones does, you know he has to be hiding a dark side that he thinks the public don’t want to see outside of the cage.
Jon Jones & Rashad Evans TUF ...
Would be the best thing EVER! Imagine the drama with Greg Jackson working with JBJ team and Rashad trying to get under his skin. It needs to happen right away. Great idea Snowdrn!
by Johnnynumber5 on Mar 25, 2011 12:21 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Wuduuuuup?!!
I’d love that but I don’t want to wait for that fight that long. But knowing Dana he’s gonna do it. As long as theres a Primetime leading up to the fight Im good.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Mar 25, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Wazup Fenix!
Never see u at the stiq anymore. Either way, I don’t want to wait that long either but man that would be some compelling television.
by Johnnynumber5 on Mar 25, 2011 12:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
What's with all the lame shots taken at Jones in this article?
What’s interesting about the insistence that Jones is the good guy, when all signs point to the opposite being true
Really? And you know this how? Because you linked to Jones predicting he’d beat Shogun, and to a story much more complicated than simply “Jones breaking up a united team”? These are ‘facts’ that counter his image of being clean cut and articulate?
Anyway, there’s another factor at play, and it has nothing to do with being the asshole people think you are, and that’s performance (and please no one say Anderson Silva in response). Liddell’s personality was as empty as Sean Hannity’s head, but he murdered his opponents. There’s a big difference between Jon Jones, and guys like Hughes, Franklin, and Couture…he’s not just dominant, but he’s exciting in the process. Guys like Hughes and Couture never would have made the All-Violence Team.
Give it time. He’ll get there. If he destroys Rashad, and then coaches a season a TUF opposite Rampage Jackson, the sky’s the limit (in MMA terms at least: the sport itself is still too niche to see someone transcend it, regardless of whether or not they’re a dickhead, or coached a season of a lame reality show) .
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by David Castillo on Mar 25, 2011 12:34 PM EDT reply actions
All Violence Team doesn’t seem key. Shamrock and Ortiz were biggest draws pre Lesnar and that’s not them.
by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 25, 2011 1:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Exactly, even in boxing, Floyd “Money” Mayweather isn’t very exciting, but it’s his mouth and persona that draws. On the other hand, Pacquiao is a good example of a good guy in boxing that seems to draw, and with him, he does have exciting fights.
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Very true.
I think it helps to be insanely violent, definately not a requisite though.
Plus, Liddell is a boring guy / interview, but has huge Charisma, which is a very different thing.
You cant just ignore Anderson Silva because it fits your argument. The fans loved Chuck because he knocked people out and looked like them. They dont like Anderson Silva because he knocks people out and DOESNT look like them.
I will never understand this argument
Conducting an experiment on knocking people out in particular ways would be unethical.
People love to believe they are part of an enlightened minority
By believing that Chuck was a star as a result of racism, they get to continue to play that part in their own head. Nevermind the fact that Anderson has shown himself to be a huge asshole in multiple fights and doesn’t speak the language or make the media tours that Chuck did. Its because Anderson black. Its the same reason we’ll never have a black president and Michael Vick will never start another game at QB in the NFL.
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
by troy145 on Mar 25, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I ignored Silva because
he doesn’t speak English, and he’s had some of the worst performances ever (for my part, I enjoy Silva when he’s being positively insane). As for the rest, see Rome’s post below.
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by David Castillo on Mar 25, 2011 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Guys like Hughes and Couture never would have made the All-Violence Team.
Couture …. agreed.
But Hughes?
Really?
Young Matt Hughes was incredibly violent and one of the best finishers in the sport. Watching Matt pick guys up and slam them unconscious or mercilessly pound the crap out of them on the great was a sight to behold.
Something about Jones personality doesn’t sit right with me. If you’re a douchebag just be a douchebag, this fake nice and humble guy act is fucking tiring. And GSP sells by being a nice guy because it seems genuine, the more Jones switches management and breaks up teams the more ppl see through his act. No one wants to pay to watch a liar.
Are our bones not dust?
Is our Blood not Poison?
On my knees in the black light
Praying for Salvation, bitter Redemption
So throw your dice and cast your shadow
You may look away
But your children will not...
by ProfessorBLove on Mar 25, 2011 12:40 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
I see it more as...
he’s a guy who beats guys up for a living doing his best at public speaking.
"Don't be intimidated by other teams. You guys got bubble gum cards, too. Let's go." - Buck Showalter
No..
that’s called being a very good public speaker and with a combination of charisma.
Can’t fault him for that.
by TooLegitToQuit on Mar 25, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Jones is certainly not a bad guy, as the author states. He’s also not a bad boy persona. He’s confident or cocky, depending on your perspective. But I think he can have some good feuds potentially, as well as TUF appearances. Him thwarting robbers on the day he fights for a title are some amazing good guy angles that can be harnessed as well.
by Hardcharger on Mar 25, 2011 12:47 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Jones is a lot more famous after the fight
than he was going in.
If they set him up against Randy Couture(in the insane event he beats Machida) Jones will probably say some douchy things and be hated once again, but by casual fans as well as hardcores.
Other than Forrest Griffin and Rampage(who’ve both already done it), what English speaking contender at 205 would be worth putting on TUF? He would need to be a complete douche or a nice guy(although, I’m sure the editing team will do a good job creating that narrative).
"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."
Totally agree on the "fake humble act"
I don’t know whose idea this was, but its time to abandon ship.
rule of thumb: if someone regularly uses the word humble, they are not humble.
These guys are really damned if they do, damned if they don't...
If he was an outright asshole, everyone would be calling him such, if he was actually humble and sincere, people would be accusing him of being fake. No matter what, he’s doing one thing very right: people are talking about him. Look at how many Jon Jones articles have been on this site alone in the past 2-3 weeks…. if he was boringly nice or boringly mean, he wouldn’t have had so much media volume, especially considering about 1/3 of the pieces have been about his persona.
by John Danaher's Hair on Mar 25, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
why does he need to be something hes not?
I appreciate the fact that he stays true to who he is. The need to fabricate another persona is garbage and true fans will see through it. All John has to do is keep chalking up wins in the fashion he’s been doing it in and the fans will come to love or hate him.
Another reason people aren’t famiiar with him is his relative lack of exposure. He fell into this title shot so to speak.
Me personally…id much rather see a guy win with class than act with ignorance…just my preference.
by SmittytheCutman on Mar 25, 2011 1:04 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Nice prescription Dr. Snowden
I can’t help but like any article that can seamlessly incorporate an obscure How I Met Your Mother reference.
by CaliforniaCreamPuff on Mar 25, 2011 1:05 PM EDT reply actions
I wonder how fans will react to Jones
If Rashad exposes him to be human.
And what I mean is, even if Jones ultimately wins the fight, I wonder what the fans perception of him will be if Rashad exploits a weakness that so far has yet to be seen. Something that shows that he is beatable.
Would it slow his rise to superstardom?
I don't think so
I think it’s better for Jones to face adversity and come back from it, in terms of increasing his popularity. It didn’t hurt GSP or Hughes to lose title fights.
I agree with everything above, I wanted to expand a little on my point about beating stars. Before fighting Forrest Griffin, Anderson Silva’s shows where he was the clear headliner without another title match or huge draw (Chuck) looked like this:
vs. Franklin: 300k
vs. Lutter: 400k
vs. Marquardt: 380k (Tito/Rashad was really the draw here)
vs. Franklin: 300k
vs. Henderson: 325k
vs. Cote: 275k
Then he fights and destroys Griffin in a fight that did 850,000 buys.
Since then his draw record looks like this:
vs. Maia: 500k (hard to judge this one since it was at a bad time and had another main event, offsetting factors)
vs. Chael Sonnen (625k)
vs. Vitor (700-750k)
You see a huge difference here. His fights with Chael and Vitor were fights against guys with zero history of drawing numbers on PPV. Before the Forrest fight, both would have been in the 300-400 range, or even lower. The knock against Anderson for not being a draw is pretty much over, and it’s because he demolished a star fans believe in spectacularly.
Like Jon, I expect a huge grudge match with Rashad and I think Jones will dominate the fight (though I do give Rashad more of a chance than most). If not TUF, they should give this the Primetime treatment.
by Michael Rome on Mar 25, 2011 1:19 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Really good point (and research).
I think that no matter who you are, the in cage violence can make you a star. Being able to speak like an adult and whoop that ass can only help
Thing is that Andy wasn't the clear headliner for the Griffin fight
Randy/Nog was.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
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by Derek Suboticki on Mar 25, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Penn/Sanchez was the headliner on that card.
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Balls
The posts that sandwich this one are smarter than this one.
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by Derek Suboticki on Mar 25, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Mir vs Kongo was the co-headliner for the Sanchez vs Penn card.
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Sorry
I mean Penn/Florian
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When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 25, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe it was actually BJ Penn vs Kenny Florian
But your point still stands.
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I think a primetime would be great
The LHW title has been kept on the shelf for way too long lately. Shoguns lay offs after Machida I and before this fight. I think the title needs to stay in play here to keep the division moving and great fights will sell Jones better than a TUF season.
Conducting an experiment on knocking people out in particular ways would be unethical.
Yeah even without injuries
TUF just delays fights for way too long. I think if the UFC wants to build a star off of jones they need to keep him as an active champ.
Conducting an experiment on knocking people out in particular ways would be unethical.
Absolutely
And I think he needs to defend for the first time prolly by the end of the summer. Keep him active and in peoples mind. Then hope that his performances continue to speak for themselves.
Conducting an experiment on knocking people out in particular ways would be unethical.
In all fairness
I love me some Anderson but the Maia card was ridiculously stacked(and would have done better if it was late at night but w/e), Sonnen sold that card not Anderson, and 126 was a stacked card.
This.
People like to watch winners who beat the best. Once Bones beats Rashad, look to regular casual fans to jump on his hype train. Add the fact that he’s a good looking dude who has tremendous athletic abilities – everything is there for him. He just needs to successfully defend that belt a couple of times.
I believe he does
Speaks English, people love to hate him, just knocked out Shogun, made a bad situation even worse with Rashard, probably won’t lose for a while. People may not pay to see him fight, but they will pay to see him lose.
by ANDERSONS GOT THE JUICE on Mar 25, 2011 1:27 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I think one important thing was overlooked
If he keeps dominating opponents then he’ll end up growing as a draw. If that doesn’t work he could always go with the flash and stuff he did when he was on the underground circuit(putting his arms up after slams and such).
I really hope he stays respectable and becomes a good role model for kids to look up to. But, who cares what I think when a couple hundred thousand new inbred, sister-molesting WWE-types tune in for the lame-ass drama.
by tharv3 on Mar 25, 2011 1:37 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
uhhh......wut?
Conducting an experiment on knocking people out in particular ways would be unethical.
What the fuck...
do you have against sister molesters? HOW DARE YOU
by John Danaher's Hair on Mar 25, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice work JDH
Also I blame you for the recent advent of screen names involving fighterX’s weird body part
Conducting an experiment on knocking people out in particular ways would be unethical.
I guess if she’s hot, then I understand.
by tharv3 on Mar 25, 2011 3:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He's 23
He’s still extremely young and just headlined his first real show. I’m surprised at all the concern over his numbers when he was the young challenger. It is usually up to the Champ to draw all the viewers. I think the Rashad fight will help a lot and sell a lot of PPV’s if marketed like Rashad has a chance.
Look @ GSP. He’s hasn’t finished an opponent since Nixon was in office, and while still fun to watch is nowhere near as exciting as Bones. If Bones keeps kicking ass like he does and doing as much press as he did for the Shogun fight, the sky is the limit. He is a 23 year old, ultra-talented monster that happens to speak English unlike the Spider.
I’ve realized something regarding black athletes in all of the major US sports(Being black myself), Personas sell and make people pay attention to them. Lebron, TO, Mayweather, Rampage, etc. All these TV appearances may get Jones some exposure, but to really breakthrough he going to need to show some personality like Rampage. He doesn’t need to be a asshole, just show you have a little of a dark side to yourself, it makes you seem a little relate-able to the common guy.
Also, the press leading up to his fight was basically nothing but New york based, not across the country. The UFC did the same thing with Cain v. Lesnar.
by Blacklegend on Mar 25, 2011 1:50 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
This makes me cringe.
I’m black, and the thought of guys having to be a “character” to be accepted mainstream as opposed to just being a normal guy that people should be able to relate to is upsetting.
by PhatHead Phil on Mar 25, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
It's sad really.
Mosley is one of my favorite boxers of all-time and he can’t draw flies cause he doesn’t act like he’s all that. It should just be the performance but due to how blacks portray themselves in the media, it causes problems.
I dont think thats necessarily true in all major sports
Tony Dungee, Dwight Howard, Dwyane Wade, Josh Cribbs, Dwight Freeney, Demarcus Ware, PK Suppan, Barry Sanders, Ken Griffey Jr, Jimmy Rollins, Ryan Howard, etc
Personality just helps you hit that “next-level” usually, but I think thats true for whites and blacks. I think its clear that Peyton’s star shines brighter than Brady’s, probably because of commercials and SNL appearances and “drunk idiot kicker” comments. Stuff like that.
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
I couldn't possibly care less
If people don’t want to watch the guy with the coolest fighting style out there right now because Jones doesn’t WWE it up, fuck em.
Not afraid to nitpick
i don't understand people knocking on his "personality"
When the truth of the matter is that Jones is a MMA fan’s wet dream. Unbelievably athletic, dynamic in all sense, consistently violent, and always looking to finish. I don’t like certain fighters for who they actually are, but that’s always wiped out when I see someone go apeshit in a cage and look to dominate and destory their adversary. When you add high level athleticism and amazing technique, THAT is what I’m looking for in every fight. Bones is like a GSP with a mean streak.
As for this article- I think his PPV numbers suffered tremendously because of the NCAA tourney. I didn’t watch because the UCONN game was on, personally, and I find it increasingly harder to stomach paying 50 bucks, especially when it will probably be free in two months on spike. But the tourney is easily one of the biggest TV events in our country, and the effect it had on buys shouldn’t be understated. Especially if you consider a lot of sportsbars as well that occasionally buy cards if there is a lack of better sporting on free tv. I expect his next ppv against rashad to do much, much better.
by Austin Martin on Mar 25, 2011 2:08 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I also don’t understand how humble people think he needs to be, when he’s a professional fighter than has never been tested by ANYONE
by Austin Martin on Mar 25, 2011 2:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
humility is just a good trait
anyways, not matter how many titles he wins, we’re all just a car accident or earthquake away from eating through a straw the rest of our lives.
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
that fact is true whether a person is humble or not.
by Austin Martin on Mar 25, 2011 2:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think that Jones has carved out an interesting little personality niche for himself....
he’s a cocky, God-fearing, family man with a chippy edge to him. He’s lived a life way beyond his years thus far, and has been forced to mature more quickly than he has actually been able to. He can spit out cliches to the media over and over, but he’s already broken the mold of a Jackson fighter (going off script and saying that he’d fight Rashad) and has shown an amazingly edgy in-cage personality (i.e. constantly putting his hands over his opponents nose and mouth, chin-butting, rape-choking, trachea-forearming… I think he’s shown much more of a dark side than he’s getting credit for.
by John Danaher's Hair on Mar 25, 2011 2:11 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
--
he’s a cocky, God-fearing, family man with a chippy edge to him.

Moisture is the essence of wetness.
by troy145 on Mar 25, 2011 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
LOL
good point… but the upstate NY sensibilities are more likable (to me) then Country Breakfast’s bigoted farm boy bullshit. And as chippy as Hughes is/was- Jones is bringing it to a whole other level.
by John Danaher's Hair on Mar 25, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
You might be chippy too if you completely dominate a pretty good run of high level athletes in the way that Jones has.. I like that. Mental game is just as important as physical
by Austin Martin on Mar 25, 2011 2:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
if you have even a shred of doubt in yourself
Yes, that’s a weakness
by Austin Martin on Mar 25, 2011 2:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i don't consider him "cocky"
Because I see that as fake confidence. I think Jones is simply supremely confident in himself.
by Austin Martin on Mar 25, 2011 3:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Every high level athlete is probably cocky
It’s just the difference between coming off as a dick and not coming off as a dick, which is subjective.
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Head Kick Legend
completely agree
I guess I just don’t mind people like that being dicks about it, because in a similar situation I probably would be too. I don’t doubt GSP is like that, maybe less so than before the hughes and serra upsets
by Austin Martin on Mar 25, 2011 2:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Hm...
1. Bad Boy presence? You mean like a simultaneously contrarian and occasionally condescending writing style coupled with articles intentionally designed to generate heat, a la page hits?
2. A vehicle for the exposure of the personality to a mass audience? Like one of the best, well-respected, and most popular MMA blogs on the web?
3. Feuds, especially with established stars? Would an oft-repeated series of ad hominems as part of an ongoing (and seemingly endless) tete e tete with a well known, bombastic, and polarizing commenter count?
Goddamnit Jon, not everybody can be you. ;-)
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Mar 25, 2011 2:19 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
im just sayign
i think snowden should try his hand at promoting.
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
if he's any good...
he’ll have something he can sell to Dana in a couple years’ time
Already polarized
Some thinks he’s too cocky some love his demeanor
Jones should embrace his inner divais absolutely what he should do. I think the pre fight antics with Rashad will show us if he is embracing that role or not.
Jones should embrace his inner diva
…………………..no comment
'cause the heart that betrays itself willingly, Is like a nation that trades freedom for stability, its so seductive to be cold and corrupted and isolated and try to be an independent republic, But liberty to be loved on the surface is worthless, The sacrifice of revolution with no purpose
by ImmortalTechnique92 on Mar 25, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
OK so they said JOn Jones isnt a big star because his ppv draw was not that big.
Shogun was the champ so shouldnt it mean shogun is not that big of a draw?
First thing he needs to do to be a UFC star is defend his goddamn title for one single friggin time.
Holy crap everybody is pushing SO DAMN much this kid that it’s kinda looking he’s the last hope to be THE american greatest fighter, who will hopefully surpass the canadian and brazilian on top of the p4p rankings.
Now let’s effin move on, for gods sake.
by André Luiz Cantalogo on Mar 25, 2011 5:51 PM EDT reply actions

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