Did the UFC Manipulate Jones vs Evans to Divide Team Jackson?

Since last year Jones has had a complete personality shift, he’s gotten a much bigger ego and I think has really become a relatively prideful individual. You can see it in his interviews for sure.

How come there was no fuss when Condit said he would fight GSP?

People applauded him. This should be a personal choice.

I’m pulling for Rashad in this fight, Jones needs to be taught some humility and there’s no one better to put a big-brother-style beating on him then Rashad. I don’t have anything against Jon as a person or a fighter but Rashad was slighted here and I definitely understanf his viewpoint.

Just wrote about this on HKL this morning, and I think the most important consequence this will have is how camps will have to change their system to accommodate these circumstances. Jackson openly admitted on Sherdog radio to turning down fighters looking to work at Jacksons because of situations like this.

camp policy or not, with that many fighters under your umbrella, it was bound to happen eventually. assuming otherwise is a bit naive. could they not have worked something out, where each fighter would train in “shifts”… with the main coaches not participating in the in-fight strategy, or cornering (during the fight)? obviously there’s more to it than that, but it seems like something that could have easily been rectified.

It was pretty easy for Jones to say he wouldn’t fight Evans when there wasn’t a real possibility of the fight happening. Then as soon as the fight becomes even the slightest possibility, he flips and says he respects Dana, and would fights Evans if that’s what Dana wanted.

Then you have Evans, who has towed the company line for years. There were points in the past when Evans and Jardine were both considered top 10 in their division, and Evans refused to fight Jardine. When Jones got the title shot, Evans started thinking about the possibility of switching weight classes if Jones won the title. The crazy thing is, that not fighting teammates might not even have been his own personal philosophy, but he had enough respect for Jackson and the camp, that he continually stated he wouldn’t fight teammates, to the point where Dana White was ridiculing him in public over his stance. If I was Evans, I would be pretty pissed too that Jones was so quickly willing to give in on the issue.

anyone know?

Bones opened it up and said that if it were over his job, he might but still WOULDN"T want to fight Rashad. Rashad, realizing that he’s going to have to compete in thin divisions and be in a tighter rotation of top fighters, having to probably face people he’s trained with longer.

I really think this was just an opening presented by Jones, kind of a challenge. It’s been said that Rashad isn’t working with Winklejohn so isn’t that kind of his split already?

A lot of guys now fly to Jackson just to gameplan. GSP trains with Firas, Nate, Rashad, and Carwin train with Wittman. I think fighters that actually train there fulltime will begin to take precedent and leave, but I think that’s the normal progress of these situations anyway.

When Jon Jones said his whole deal about not wanting to hear Rashad mentioned in any interviews / pressers leading up to 128, and Evans came back about what a cold thing it was to throw out there

Perfect in every way. This is a complex issue and its great that BE is the front runner on opening up the issue. So many people immediately assumed Evans was crying and pouting about being pushed aside. This situation has far more depth that one mans ego.

…I doubt Dana planned this. Think about it, who else is there at LHW that is a legit contender? The fact that he’s dividing a camp is simply an ancillary benefit.

Brock Lesnar can afford to pay all his coaches, trainers and sparring partners to build a camp around him. Most MMA fighters can not.

The camaraderie and openness that fighters at camps like Jacksons or AKA experience makes a huge difference as well. If the fighters are confident that they won’t someday be facing off against their training partners, then they can train without holding back, dramatically increasing their learning and the value of the camp.

Even without taking the money part into consideration, camps like Jacksons and AKA arguably provide a better, more well-rounded training experience because they have a lot of other fighters there with varying strengths to challenge each other. People kept bringing this up about Brock’s camp – maybe he wasn’t bringing in all the right people since he was picking and choosing exactly who would come in to train with him specifically. I like the Jackson and AKA camp approach even though it may not be the most expensive option.

But, yeah, I’m not sure how they get around this intra-camp fighting issue…

I’d honestly think this would be less of a big deal at Jackson’s, given their pseudo-umbrella of camps. Let one guy pick where he trains, (Grudge, Tristar, Jackson’s, wherever else) while the other guy picks who he trains with (Jackson, Winklejohn, whoever else).

As someone who’s married, I would guess that Rashad’s family is a lot bigger factor in this that is suggested by the current discourse. For those of you that have families – imagine that you’ve not worked for a long time because you’re trying to get a new high-pay high-prestige job. Then, out of the blue, a guy you’ve been friends with for a year applies for the job, so you go home and tell your wife “sorry, but my friend Jon is going to get the job and since we’re friends and we’ve sworn to not compete with each other, I’m just going to go back to my previous job at a lower wage and lower level of prestige, and we as a family are just going two write off all of time I’ve spent not working in preparation of this new job that I’m no longer interested in.” I can’t believe that the majority of your wives wouldn’t have a huge issue with any of this. My wife (and family) would fucking laugh at me if I suggested that I would give up my dream of being the best a something and the rewards that got with it, simultaneously flushing the sacrifice we made to get to this point, because I didn’t want to fight someone I’d known for a year.

Jackson and the fighters themselves. It’s all nice and good to think that you’ll never fight your training partner, but if you’re all fighting in the same organization, it’s naive to think you’ll never have to fight. The fighters and Jackson have only themselves to blame for creating this situation for themselves. Yes, they get the benefit of the team training dynamic, but nothing is ever perfect, and they were going to have to deal with this sooner or later. Well it’s sooner, and it’s their fault for not having a system in place to deal with such a situation should it come up. The UFC, for all their faults, is a business and it expects the fighters to fight who they tell them to fight.

I think with the UFC continuing its dominance, and with less and less viable promotions out there, this whole “we are the world” team dynamic will not be common place later on down the line. Trainers are going to have to commit to certain fighters, or adopt a policy of “it’s just business.”

That’s really all there is to it.

Another aspect: I highly doubt Rashad’s wife, mother and grandmother would allow him to miss this payday. Not that he’s not his own man, but he’s a family guy and those are three strong women.

The UFC is about its business and fighters and camps must be about theirs, I find it a little sad how many people show virtually no understanding that fighters are ultimately alone in the context of this sport and that that is a tough situation to be in when dealing with an entity as powerful as the ufc, which generally holds most of the cards in their lives and careers and in a sport where things are already tough for them with injuries, costs and career span etc.
As Nate explains, the main check for many fighters to the ufc’s power up this point seems to have been that certain camps have offered fighters a degree of protection and insulation beyond most of their available means as individuals. That this protection was based on loyalty and that this loyalty has (in this instance) been cracked to provide the ufc with its desired outcome weakens the power of the camp, the fighters and the coaches and strikes me as sad for the longer term consequences of each. I do not understand completely what has happened in this situation, but empathise with Rashad in that Jackson seems to have had his head turned by the up and comer and allowed it to burn out his relationship with Rashad (and consequently his bond of trust with Rashad)… some may call this pragmatics, others may regard it as something to be aware of, Jackson will use fighters until they are no longer of value, even if they are in their prime (Rashad makes the point that Jackson indicates Jones will cement his legacy). Maybe this is just the way it always has been in other combat sports, but it should certainly change how Jackson will be perceived from now on… and as Nate says, possibly other gyms also, breaking the power of the group dynamic and possibly leading to more mercenary, less engaged fighter-gym relationships. The sad thing is that this ultimately slows down the skills development and growth of fighters – as they will need to guard their skills and only the top guys will be able to build their own camps entirely. Not a day to rejoice in my book… but of course a fight of interest, but comparing one fight versus the relative growth of fighters and the sport – no comparison.

I have absolutely nothing to back this up with whatsoever, which is coincidentally my favorite way to start a post on any blog site, but i seem to remember jones saying he would never challenge rashad for the title if rashad was champ. again, no evidence to back this, i just recall him saying that some time ago, perhaps when rashad was actually champ. so, my question is, why is he such a dick for telling rashad that if rashad wanted a shot, he would let him have it. its one thing to callenge for the title you said you wouldnt… its another to except a challenge. all of this hinges on my recollection being accurate, which odds of that arent great due to my marijuana intake (dont tell isis)

anyone else remember anything of the sort, or just me.

i like scotch.

If you say “come and get it if you want it”. Even if neither fighter wants to fight, you’ve thrown the ball in your “friends” court. We all no sites just like this are going to scream “Why won’t Rashad fight Jones? He’s scared etc etc.”

Rashad alluded to this when he responded that he wasn’t a punk and he’d have to fight him now.

Don’t know what your talking about

Once again, I invoke Betteridge’s Law.

Evans spends most of his time in Denver at Grudge. Evans and Jones are not buddies, like they have been sometimes portrayed.

The bigger story is, the eventual split of Grudge and Jackson’s and how that will divide the “roster”.

Rashad has a point about feeling betrayed and things of that nature, you need security with your team, etc, and I really see his point, as an avid Rashad hater, I side with him more than Jones on this point.

But when it all comes down to it, you got hurt, Jones got the shot, and you are the challenger. Challenge him, or don’t.

But it has to be financially worth their while. Both fighters can’t win. Outside of the rare occurrence that are draws (despite seeing two in main events in UFC this year), someone has to win and someone has to lose. And for the loser their career may never recover and their ability to make money hindered.

If UFC wants team mates fighting team mates because they’ve run out of opponents for them or failed to build up new ones, or give the official line “it’s a fight fans want to see” without any actual corroborative research data, then quite simple the UFC have to put their money where their mouth is.

… literally one of the best experiences of my life. It was against a life-long friend who went through my boxing and sambo classes with me. We fought in Vegas and I didn’t know what to do when they said fight. I was staring at the guy that I lived with for like six years. I didn’t know how I’d go about things. Then he punched me in the face and I was like fuck that noise and TKO’d his ass in the first round.

This is a much, much smaller scale and literally not at all comparable as far as what’s at stake, but I thought I’d share anyway.

I think this is a further sign that a lot of the big MMA camps will eventually split up. Look at ATT. Didn’t Cane and a few others leave there? As these camps get bigger and bigger I can see more fighters starting their own gyms and leaving the big popular ones, as the number of fighters at these places grow.

After just winning the title, arguably the happiest moment of his life and certainly the happiest moment of his career, he looked like someone took his lunch money in the cage.

I think he is legitimately upset about this and everyone needs to remember that Jones is just a young kid.

I blame Greg Jackson the most for this situation. When he referred to himself as an unimportant person in his interview with Helwani I shook my head and laughed. After Dana White and Joe Rogan he is the most recognizable non fighter in the MMA world. If anyone could have stopped this from happening, it was him. Yet he claims that he’s going to have nothing to do with it. He could have stopped Jones from taking the title shot. He could have done lots of things here, yet he sat back and let it play out.

I think that Jackson would pick Jones over Evans yet he wants to maintain this gentle leader persona that he has and it’s mostly rubbish. Good for Evans for seeing the writing on the wall and leaving the camp. I hope he does well in the fight.

since Jones is 100% molded by Greg Jackson, eating ’sum crow might be in order..

This fight will be sold as “prodigy faces former mentor” etc. Both will make fuck-loads of money and will still go fishing at age 40 after Bones murders Rashad.

And who gives a shit if Jon Jones is humble or not in interviews, the guy just destroyed Shogun at age 23…I didn’t see him dancing around the cage like Brandon Vera.

yes yes they did

…bastards

Moreover, Team Jackson and all their top guys directly owe their success to the UFC. It made them HUGE. It gave them a stage. The UFC put Team Jackson on the map. The UFC put AKA on the map too.
  Second, Rashad and Jones are getting all sappy. If someone paid me $50,000 to fight my friend, and paid him $50,000 as well, you’d find yourself two happy scrappers. What nerdy out-of-shape blogger on Bloody Elbow wouldn’t fight their friend for at least that amount?

Geez. This friend vs. friend thing shouldn’t even be an issue. They’re treating it like it’s no longer their job to FIGHT PEOPLE.

Calling Bones… Judas Jones. lol

I’m just glad this is getting resolved sooner rather than later.

“Tournament-wise? Yes. Separate fight? No,” Alistair Overeem said when asked if he would fight his brother. “In a tournament, obviously you advance, so in a tournament fashion we would fight each other.”
“If i get thrown into the tournament, which I hope I do, and I win and he wins, it’s inevitable I guess,” Valentijn said.
“I’m a pro,” said Alistair, who is 34-11 with 1 no contest. “If I’m in the cage or ring, I fight. Like my brother said, it’s far away, but we’re professionals. People want to see that fight, and they pay money for a ticket, we’ll give them what they want. We fight every day in the gym, and he kicked my a– more than several times.”
“A long time ago,” Valentijn said with a smile.

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/2/13/1991625/tournament-wise-yes-separate-fight-no-alistair-overeem-said-when

The big thing I took from this was: “but we’re professionals”.