Rashad Evans Is the Underdog to Jon Jones
by Nick Thomas on Mar 21, 2011 9:15 AM EDT
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Rashad Evans +375 vs. Jon Jones -525To compare: Mauricio Rua vs. Jon Jones opened at Rua +120 vs. Jones -150.
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Yea... i know how rashad is feeling
The days as champ are done... but the juggernaut known as Brock Lesnar will return.
by HitokiriX on Mar 20, 2011 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
BUT DANA WHITES CHILLIN
Legendary lay-up Jordan with the right-left switch.
Hang time, Hand glide, Stir fried, Chinky-eyed, Shanghai
by AndersonSativa on Mar 21, 2011 4:09 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Hahaha. It looks like Snoop Dogg putting on a concert for the mentally challenged.
by MMAussie on Mar 21, 2011 4:22 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
This line is an overreaction. I expect Jones to win, but Rashad will be his toughest fight to date. He’ll be fighting a guy who won’t be surprised at all at what he has to offer.
I’m confident Rashad would have rolled Rua last night too. Not in as dominant of fashion, but he would have won. Rashad is a tricky fighter and I expect him to give Jones some problems.
by Michael Rome on Mar 20, 2011 7:59 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
conversely
jones will not be shocked by anything rashad does.
by silent.bisonte33 on Mar 20, 2011 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
But who is?
We all know what Rashad brings to the table on a regular basis.
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Not sooo sure
Rashad has developed his game quite a bit since he started out in the UFC / TUF plus he seems to shift the focus between wrestling and striking. So while there’s a clear picture of the tools he possesses in general, I think he may still surprise against Jones.
Unfortunately, Jones has made a career out of shocking, surprising dominance so far. I wonder if he’ll end up like Lesnar with an unforseen weakness being exposed at some point. The problem is, I don’t see a LHW Cain Velasquez or JDS coming up after him. Maybe Mr. Wonderful, but he seemed like a poor mans Jones so far.
To save me some time on 25% of all threads, here's the universal answer to the Fedor-debate: Fedor is the most accomplished MMA fighter ever. That is a fact. If he still is the best fighter at this point in time is up for debate.
He's gonna clinch and press the cage to slow down the fight
Problem is, the LAST thing you want to do with Jon Jones is clinch and push, because that’s where the power from his throws is generated. Notice Rua never forcefully stepped into a clinch with Jones, and, in fact, in one scramble, when he was coming up off the floor, Jones secured an over/under on Rua, and rather than try and take a step to stand up, Rua practically pulled guard and went back to the floor.
The LAST thing you want to do with Jones is push forward in a clinch. And that’s where Evans spent most of the Rampage fight – pushing ‘Page into the cage. That’s not gonna work with Jones.
"Don't be intimidated by other teams. You guys got bubble gum cards, too. Let's go." - Buck Showalter
The difference in this fight
will be that Rashad is better in training than in a fight, Jones is better in a fight than in training. So both might be surprised.
Really? The way Jones is I’m sure he’ll have at least a few tricks up his sleeve for Rashad, I expect him to work on his standup a lot and keep this one on the feet.
Hey UFC4 go fuck yourself, how about that? Fucking punk, I was just asking for the source that says lesnar gets 5 mill a fight, it’s obvious one does not exist. Bunch of gabronis on a site pulling figures out of your ass.
by Garrett Bennicas
by ufc4 on Mar 20, 2011 11:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Uh … why? Why give Rashad a chance to clip you? Put him on his back and smash his head in.
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People most defintiely thought the same about Shogun
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
www.badlefthook.com
by Drunken cutman on Mar 21, 2011 7:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah? Well Jones put Shogun on his back and smashed his head in.
Then when he was good and hurt/tired, he used his standup.
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Stylistically, I feel that Jones is simply superior to Evans. I can’t see anything that Evans can do to Jones in the standup especially with Jones’ reach, and I feel that he has better wrestling than Evans. The size factor also could be a factor. I hardly see Evans as being faster than Jones, and I just don’t see anywhere where Evans is better than Jones.
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by chrisbboy82 on Mar 21, 2011 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions
lol @ saying rec'd and not doing it
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 21, 2011 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
couldnt do it
computer at work frrreaked out on me :|
"Do I really look like a guy with a plan?" -The Joker
Wut
Rashad is a worse wrestler(and we see how Jones treats wrestlers anyway) and has no chin. Training with Jones could give him an advantage, but I don’t see Rashad beating Jones outside of a punchers chance. Shogun/Rashad would have ended up with Shogun eventually catching Rashad with some sort of strike and rocking him. Then Shogun would have finished him off. Rashad has proven that all you have to do is hit him cleanly once.
That is a good point...
Rashad has proven that all you have to do is hit him cleanly once.
Someone remind me again, how many KO losses (or losses period) does Rashad have? 5? 6? More?
ANYONE can be KTFO with a hard shot on the button…absolutely anyone.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 21, 2011 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Uh Rashad has only been beaten 1 time
The dude has 1 loss to Machida and dominated his last two fights against Thiago Silva (power Striker) and Quinton Jackson (power Striker). He can take a punch.
Plus Jones isn’t a knockout striker he broke shoguns body for the win.
After saying all that Rashad will get embarrassed by the Manhunter Jon Jones.
I am vorn the unspeakable the skulls of those who defy me bleach in the suns of hundreds of worlds...... and you are
Rashad has no chin? He has only lost once,how can you possibly come to that conclusion?
I am free because I choose to be so-Me
He forgot to use the sarcasm font, I'm betting.
"Don't be intimidated by other teams. You guys got bubble gum cards, too. Let's go." - Buck Showalter
I don’t know what’s worse, saying that Rashad has no chin or "the sarcasm font’…
".He still has a ground game that seems heavily dependent on lying still and hoping that his opponent won't notice his very kimura-able arm..."
by dancingChicken on Mar 21, 2011 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't buy it
Rua at least had a credible path to victory (going into the fight). How exactly is Rashad supposed to beat Jones? I realize Rua didn’t look so hot Saturday night, but shouldn’t we take a hint from the fact that we end up saying the same thing about every crumpled JBJ opponent the next day?
I also don’t think this alleged familiarity Rashad thinks he has with Jones is going to help him much (if anything, it might give him a dangerously false sense of security). I doubt Jones is breaking out the throat strikes, knee stomps and mouth covering when he’s rolling at the gym.
I wouldn’t put a nickel on Rashad for anything less than +700 and even then I wouldn’t feel good about it.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Mar 21, 2011 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I'll say this
I had Rashad beating Rua the whole time, and nothing on Saturday made me think I was wrong.
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by Derek Suboticki on Mar 21, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I will never bet against Jones again until somebody at least hurts him.
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by Earl Montclair on Mar 20, 2011 10:17 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
This.
I held off on jumping on the Jones bandwagon, but dominating Shogun like that has finally swayed me; Bones is scary-talented.
by skeebop on Mar 20, 2011 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
amazing! people always say that the next fight is always going to be a terst for Jones
by Mohammedini Hussein on Mar 21, 2011 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
maybe thats because always all fights are always going to always test a fighter?
"That's racism man, I love to racism bro!"
by Hendo_One-Shot on Mar 21, 2011 3:58 AM EDT up reply actions
YES!!!
Some more black on black crime!!!
by rscott94 on Mar 20, 2011 10:21 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 2 recs
Sh!t just got real son!
Question is which teams will they train with? Greg Jackson is claiming he doesn’t want to be in either fighter’s corner. Rashad is supposedly joining up with the ATT Exiles (Jorge Santiago, Villefort Bros., and Jay Z Calvante), but its never a good idea for a fighter to run his own training camp. I suspect Jackson may side with Jones since Rashad went public with their split.
by BrothaDarkness on Mar 20, 2011 10:26 PM EDT reply actions
Rashad is odd man out which he why he announced he would go to another Camp. He save face now rather then have the team go that direction anyways. Jones is the brighter prospect and now is also the LHW Champion. Jackson would be dumb not stick by Jones. Next to GSP he there most valuable fighter.
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
by MMA_PITBULL on Mar 20, 2011 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not surprised by this at all
Jon Jones will bring the 2nd coming of the stanky leg.
What’s Evans gonna do? Take him down? Evans is not a big LHW at all, and Jones has the biggest frame in the division.
Strike with him? Evans’ striking game doesn’t have anything on that of Jones.
Alistair Overeem - StrikeForce Heavyweight Champion, K-1 2010 World Grand Prix Champion, DREAM Heavyweight Champion
June 18th, 2011:
Fabricio Werdoomsday
Game Overeem
UFC 87=One of the biggest star-making events in UFC history
GSP defends his title for the first time. Brock gets his first win and subsequent title shot. Jon Jones makes his UFC debut on 3 weeks notice…as an underdog
by mthom on Mar 20, 2011 10:37 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 3 recs
That was an amazing event and I’m glad to say I was there to witness it.
Hey UFC4 go fuck yourself, how about that? Fucking punk, I was just asking for the source that says lesnar gets 5 mill a fight, it’s obvious one does not exist. Bunch of gabronis on a site pulling figures out of your ass.
by Garrett Bennicas
by ufc4 on Mar 20, 2011 11:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
As was I. Awesome energy in that crowd with the Minnesota fans out for Lesnar and Huerta and all the Canadian imports flying in for GSP.
by Jamie Penick on Mar 21, 2011 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Searchiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiin
Seek and destroy.
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 21, 2011 8:10 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
REC THIS MAN
I’ll do it when I get to mi casa
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by sitnam90 on Mar 21, 2011 9:32 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well done.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Mar 21, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I can’t wait to see Bones Jones at HW. Him at around 250 would be fucking scary. Not that he isn’t already. Young extremely talented long stretched out fighter with a nasty streak inside the cage? Kid could be special. Im not deeming him the next Ali or Tyson…I mean come on but he is one to watch develop. Sky is the Limit.
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
IMO, if Cain comes back healthy and defends his belt a few times, the biggest superfight in the future would be Jones bs Velasquez. Not sure who would win….
by mthom on Mar 20, 2011 11:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
This is exactly what I was thinking. Cain is the only guy I don’t see Jones walking through (and maybe Overeem), but I do see Jones winning. Let’s say he bulks up to the tune of Overeem, minus maybe 10 or 15 lbs. I think he has the speed advantage over Cain at that point.
I also want to see Bones vs Fedor. Two lightening quick strikers that are insane grapplers? You kidding me? That would be the fight of the century…before jones got too big.
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I'm not sure.
Bones seems like a more dynamic fighter than Fedor. The thing with Fedor was that he had a great capacity to do exceptionally well what he knew well, and didn’t fail often.
He’s a fighter from a different era that even at his peak might not match up well against the current crop of fighters.
by Unabomberman on Mar 20, 2011 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
You really dont see Anderson giving him a battle? I think it would be interesting to see one of the top Muay Thai fighters in MMA against a guy who loves using the clinch to set up throws and trips. Plus i really dont like either fighter(I actually liked Jones before the comments started coming the past few weeks) so its a win-win because one of them is gonna get messed up
I disagree
Fedor was badly outsized by Bigfoot, he was doing great until the takedown. He got subbed by the best BJJ Heavy in MMA. He’s not done at all. He looked fantastic against Bigfoot until the ground. He was simply too small.
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I think Rashad is going to move down to MW
especially after hearing Nate wants to move down to WW.
Why would anyone even bet on Jones
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You can't tell me to not grow dope. It's like telling the NWA to stop being black.-Ricky
you might not win much, but it’s like free money. jones can’t lose.
by steak_knife on Mar 20, 2011 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions
People hate short money bets
I don’t see any way Jones loses, but putting $500 at risk to win $100 isn’t exactly the funnest gambling proposition.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Mar 21, 2011 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly – I wouldn’t touch that one except as part of a parlay.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 21, 2011 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I really think Rashad has a good chance
I have this gut feeling, based off their body language, that Jones and Evans may have had a ‘little brother v big brother’ thing between them in practice. Not to say Rashad always whooped him, but I can see Rashad schooling a little, being that he more experienced and older. I think this could be a big mental hurdle for Jones.
Sports is human life in microcosm. ~Howard Cosell
The more you sweat in practice, the less you bleed in battle. ~Author Unknown
The breakfast of champions is not cereal, it's the opposition. ~Nick Seitz
That's what I call a Lisa Simpson prediction.
And I agree with you wholeheartedly. Hones looked the most hurt not when he was fighting but rather after he won and was staring across a truly disenchanted Rashad.
by Unabomberman on Mar 20, 2011 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Right now, I have no doubt Jones will beat Evans.
But come fight time, I will have been brainwashed by the UFC Hype Machine (again) and believe Evans has a legitimate shot of beating Jones. I will put money on Evans, honestly believing it is a wise investment. It’s like impulsively buying something, then getting buyer’s remorse. Except I don’t impulsively buy “it”, but I do countless hours of reading comments and watching MMA progamming and convincing myself it is a wise investment. Then the “buyer’s remorse” comes after the fight when I think to myself, “How fucking gullible am I?” It’s like taking back that girl that keeps saying she’ll change. I’ve made this same mistake with countless other fights and keep telling myself I won’t do it again. But I always do. Hopefully Shields doesn’t let me down.
Just Breed!
"Hopefully Shields doesn’t let me down."
You and me both. I’m not betting money or anything. But I really want him to get the upset just because so many are writing him off.
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June 18th, 2011:
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Game Overeem
by Chris Groves on Mar 20, 2011 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
the trailer for UFC 129 made him look like a million bucks though
So let me get this straight: the WWE has gone from the powerful "Austin 3:16" to the dominant and iconic "Can you smell what the Rock is cooking?" all the way to... (cue baby voice) "You can't see me." Oh, believe me, we all can see you. A blind-folded, sleeping, stuck in the basement, Stevie Wonder can see your monkey ass. - The Rock
Yeah, it sure did
For Minor didn’t hurt either.
Alistair Overeem - StrikeForce Heavyweight Champion, K-1 2010 World Grand Prix Champion, DREAM Heavyweight Champion
June 18th, 2011:
Fabricio Werdoomsday
Game Overeem
by Chris Groves on Mar 20, 2011 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Dammit
Fort Minor didn’t hurt how he looked, either.
Alistair Overeem - StrikeForce Heavyweight Champion, K-1 2010 World Grand Prix Champion, DREAM Heavyweight Champion
June 18th, 2011:
Fabricio Werdoomsday
Game Overeem
by Chris Groves on Mar 20, 2011 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Woo we'll finally have a dominant LHW champ
Not the pass along BS. Evans is waaayyy to small to do anything against Bones. A 10" reach advantage, God damn there are SO many things Jon has to his advantage in this fight and every one at LHW. Once he defends it a few times, he could go up to HW and kick ass there too.
Seriously. At this point, I can’t see anyone at LHW beating him anytime soon. He stomps Evans, then probably gets Rampage, then what? Maybe Forrest or Machida? Then Phil Davis? (if he gets a couple more wins). Those could all be fun fights, but I can’t honestly see anyone but Jones winning them.
At this point, he certainly would be the favorite in those fights. But this is MMA, nothing is a lock. Machida, Brock and Shogun showed us that things change. Competition changes, health changes and time changes things. He’s got about 5-6 title defenses before he’s Silva-ed and GSP-ed his division.
Sports is human life in microcosm. ~Howard Cosell
The more you sweat in practice, the less you bleed in battle. ~Author Unknown
The breakfast of champions is not cereal, it's the opposition. ~Nick Seitz
And we are were saying the same thing after Lyoto beat Rashad.
I love watching Bones fight, been a fan since UFC 100, and I can’t see a way he can lose right now.
But he will. Eventually, he will lose. Someone will have a great night, maybe he’ll have an off night, maybe he’ll be sick, injured, throws an illegal strike again or breaks three toes in the lockerroom before a fight tripping over his ego. Maybe someone will stright-up beat him with no mitigating factors.
But he’s gonna lose some day. And it might even happen in the next 18 months. It might take 4 years. It might take 12 years. But it’s gonna happen. Father Time kicks everyone’s butt eventually.
That said, I’ll buy every PPV he’s on.
"Don't be intimidated by other teams. You guys got bubble gum cards, too. Let's go." - Buck Showalter
Sure, there’s always the Serra-factor or the ohmygodwhathappenedtobothmyknees-shogun-factor, but barring those, this should be a much-needed, long LHW reign.
The difference between Jones and Machida, imo, is that Machida was deemed invincible based on his style. With Jones, it’s more like his overall talent and physical gifts. A little like Fedor, really: a 230lb guy who moves like a LW and has a well-rounded skill set.
Also: lol at tripping on his ego.
I agree that he has potential to be dominant but he just won the title and has zero defenses. Perhaps let him defend his title a few times before calling him a dominant champ.
Werdum beat Fedor, Dos Santos beat Werdum, Joaquim Ferreira beat Dos Santos. Therefore Ferreira is WAAAAY better than Fedor. Keep MMA math alive!
Arlovski is thicker. That goes to show you just how massive a frame Jones has and he could fill out really well if he wanted to.
by rockyman500 on Mar 20, 2011 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Jones has long limbs, so his muscles are elongated.
His vertical leap and balance are probably to 10% in the sport, so I think the toothpick appearance of his legs is a bit of an illusion.
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
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I'd say top 10 percent is selling him awfully short.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Mar 21, 2011 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Rashad tweeted
that greg jackson brought evans into his camp against rashads wishes…weird stuff. rashad being a baby now.
by silent.bisonte33 on Mar 20, 2011 11:04 PM EDT reply actions
I think he means
Evans tweeted that Jackson brought JONES into his camp against Rashad’s wishes
Alistair Overeem - StrikeForce Heavyweight Champion, K-1 2010 World Grand Prix Champion, DREAM Heavyweight Champion
June 18th, 2011:
Fabricio Werdoomsday
Game Overeem
by Chris Groves on Mar 20, 2011 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought they were brothers from a difefrent mother and father, or whatever those two had going on...
Anyways, rashad takes this. This is my Lisa Simpson prediction.
by Unabomberman on Mar 20, 2011 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
that won't catch on
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lol, nah it won’t
Anderson Silva, Edson Barboza, Jose Aldo, Charles Oliveira, Thiago Alves = Muay Thai wrecking machines!
by SentientAndroid on Mar 21, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Who the hell is Rashad to veto new fighters coming into camp?
Rashad has forgotten that it wasn’t that long ago that he was the ‘new blood’ coming into the gym and competing in the same division with a guy who had been with Jackson for years. Where would he be if Keith Jardine pulled the same crap back in 2005?
So, just throwing this out there......
Since DFW has confirmed that Cruz/Faber are NOT the next TUF coaches….
might it be Jones & Evans? Seems like waaaaay too long a delay to the fight, since the finale wouldn’t be until November, but just throwing it out there.
"Don't be intimidated by other teams. You guys got bubble gum cards, too. Let's go." - Buck Showalter
Wow, -525, no respect for Rashad at all huh? I understand Jones just thrashed Shogun, but there are still quite a few holes in his game which Rashad may, or may not be able to exploit. Of course if Jones comes out and uses his reach to cover up his huge flaws in his striking then yeah, this is pretty much a no brainer.
He could mind rape him the way Ali did to Foreman. Everything would follow from there.
by Unabomberman on Mar 20, 2011 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, for one he won't dive for low-percentage leglocks like Shogun did
I would bet that Evans with back control could score a takedown and from there control or deal some damage to Bones. Honestly, that was one of the more gaping holes I saw and honestly Shogun’s responses both times sealed his fate. I’m not certain it would be enough to win, but it certainly opens up some avenues to victory for Rashad.
El Santo inspired me to be a submission grappler.
by Enmascarado on Mar 21, 2011 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Does not compute.
Evans
score a takedown
deal some damage
The control part is possible, but other than the Griffin fight, I don’t really remember Rashad doing much in the way of significant ground and pound.
by Verklemptomaniac on Mar 21, 2011 8:22 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rashad's top control is weak.
It’s ineffective against top fighters, that’s why he never works GnP. He has to work hard to keep the control and can’t take risks.
Do we really think Rashad is THAT much of a better wrestler
than Vladdy, Bader and Hammill? I think Bader-Rashad would be three rounds of cage pressing and bad kickboxing.
Jones walked through those guys’ wrestling games like they didn’t even exist. How is Rahsad putting Jones on his back? Rashad’s standard wall’n’stall technique is a recipe for getting kneed to death, clinched and slammed by Jones.
Nobody will convince me that Rashad has a chance in this fight.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Mar 21, 2011 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rashad has never shown anything that would make me think his wrestling is better than (or even close to even with) Bader’s. No matter what people like to imagine, Rampage does not have (or if he does, he hides it well) anything close to elite TDD against a good wrestler.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 21, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I think people are just grasping
I honestly have a hard time seeing any current UFC LHWs giving Jones trouble. We’ve seen him in against the division’s best striker, and several of its top wrestlers (him being easily the best). Maybe a pure BJJ guy could show him something new (Roger Gracie anyone?) but even that is a huge stretch.
I know people are banking a lot on Phil Davis and his physicality, but I see him as a less creative, less well-rounded version of Jones.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Mar 21, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree
I know people are banking a lot on Phil Davis and his physicality, but I see him as a less creative, less well-rounded version of Jones
I think he is one of the only ones who can hang with Jones’ wrestling (along with Lawal), but I think Jones’ overall MMA ground game is better than either guys.
I love me some Mr. Wonderful, but Davis seems to lack the sort of killer instinct that Jones has shown. A Roger Gracie type with elite wrestling could do it, but there is no way he takes Jones down.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 21, 2011 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Roger probably gets chewed up on the feet and TKO'd
but I’d sure love to see him working with Jones off his back. Jones would have to be a lot more careful with those little form breaks that he’s able to get away with because of his strength and base. Roger could find a little chink and turn it into a lightning fast sub.
Of course, what actually happens, is that Jones beats the shit out of him standing until he can’t take it anymore, but its fun to think about.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Mar 21, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe have them start in the referee’s position to give Roger a small chance at putting Jones on his back…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 21, 2011 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
There has not been a guy that has used effective striking to set up take downs that Jones has faced. Jones is a tall lanky guy and if Rashad was to get top control, it would be something Jones has not experienced (at least that I can remember). Rashad’s plan will have to be to use strikes to set up takedowns and try to exploit the unorthodox moves that Jones uses with effective counters. It is a tall order indeed but that is the only path to victory that I can see for Rashad.
Werdum beat Fedor, Dos Santos beat Werdum, Joaquim Ferreira beat Dos Santos. Therefore Ferreira is WAAAAY better than Fedor. Keep MMA math alive!
That Machida fight pretty much killed any reasonable expectation that Rashad was going to win the title again. If he does, he won’t defend it for long.
Basically, Evans got the shit beat out of him by the guy who got KO’d by the guy Jones just made tap to strikes. I guess that’s the much maligned MMAmath, but ug. Just not seeing Evans pulling it out.
"an excellent example of why most MMA "journalism" is a joke. Pseudonyms like "toxic" and shitty writing like that dopey article"--- Joe Rogan.
MMA math means nothing…. See my tag line below.
Werdum beat Fedor, Dos Santos beat Werdum, Joaquim Ferreira beat Dos Santos. Therefore Ferreira is WAAAAY better than Fedor. Keep MMA math alive!
Forget MMA math
Jones has obliterated at least two guys (three if you count Vladdy) cut from the exact same mold as Rashad. Both Hammil and Bader are elite level collegiate wrestlers with heavy hands. I think Bader would give Rashad all he could handle if they squared off, and Jones just mollywalloped him.
Rashad is too small and too slow to give Rashad anything serious to think about. I don’t see how he succeeds where Bader and Hammil utterly failed.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Mar 21, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Edit
To give BONES anything serious to thin about.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Mar 21, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree that Jones will most likely smoke Rashad. Hoping for a competitive fight though.
Werdum beat Fedor, Dos Santos beat Werdum, Joaquim Ferreira beat Dos Santos. Therefore Ferreira is WAAAAY better than Fedor. Keep MMA math alive!
MMA math is not very informative though IMO
Werdum beat Fedor, Dos Santos beat Werdum, Joaquim Ferreira beat Dos Santos. Therefore Ferreira is WAAAAY better than Fedor. Keep MMA math alive!
Oh yeah, I agree
I just think that however you slice it, Rashad is getting housed in this one.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Mar 21, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I dont understand the line.
can someone pl explain if the odds makers think this fight will be closer than jones vs shogun?
Evans is a bigger underdog than Shogun is
by The Art Of War on Mar 20, 2011 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
opposite
So let me get this straight: the WWE has gone from the powerful "Austin 3:16" to the dominant and iconic "Can you smell what the Rock is cooking?" all the way to... (cue baby voice) "You can't see me." Oh, believe me, we all can see you. A blind-folded, sleeping, stuck in the basement, Stevie Wonder can see your monkey ass. - The Rock
It means in order to win $100 betting on Jones you have to risk $525
Matt Janecek
MBA Candidate 2011
An MBA on MMA:
mba-mma.blogspot.com
you would have to wager $525.00 to win $100.00 on Jones, whereas a $100.00 wager will win you $375.00 if you bet on Evans.
by steak_knife on Mar 20, 2011 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Odds they way they are listed here(and most places) is in relation to $100.
(-) before a number means you’d have to bet that amount to win $100(plus money bet)
(+) before a number means if you bet $100 you’d win that amount(plus money bet)
It’s done to encourage fairly even betting. If people start dumping tons of money on Jones or Rashad then the lines will adjust.
Repeat after me....
Odds don’t reflect what the oddsmakers think. They reflect what the oddsmakers predict the betting public will think.
"Don't be intimidated by other teams. You guys got bubble gum cards, too. Let's go." - Buck Showalter
Georges St. Pierre-esque, in the betting line is Jon Jones, Joe.
So let me get this straight: the WWE has gone from the powerful "Austin 3:16" to the dominant and iconic "Can you smell what the Rock is cooking?" all the way to... (cue baby voice) "You can't see me." Oh, believe me, we all can see you. A blind-folded, sleeping, stuck in the basement, Stevie Wonder can see your monkey ass. - The Rock
by Rod Mapada on Mar 20, 2011 11:10 PM EDT reply actions 14 recs
Rashad has a better chance than most think if those are the odds
Some interesting things Jones said in the press conference yesterday, one being that the Jackson camp started training on his weaknesses before anything, so guess who is in the know?
Another thing that Greg pointed out was that Jones was exausted after the second round, Rashad’s biggest strength is his cardio.
A game rashad is a tough opponent, he gets rocked easily but he has a great recovery rate. I dont think he ever shook the fear of standup after his bout with Machida but I think he can set up a take down better than Jones’ previous opponents
People are giving Phil Davies hope, he hasnt even beaten lil nog yet, the last thing I want to say is that its a given if you fight Jones, you will be on your back, its inevitable and thats where he is the most dangerous and can finish the fight at any moment
I dunno...
Rashad has gotten pretty tired going into the third round of many fights. He’s just got a shit tone of heart
by Dale Newstead on Mar 20, 2011 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions
If Rashads biggest strength is his cardio......
He is in more trouble than I thought
by RoB_ex on Mar 21, 2011 12:37 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Exactly
Rashad’s pretty good at transitioning from striking to TDs. But he obviously gets tired from wrestling. Also, he ain’t gonna take Jones down because of the reach difference, but will be taken down at least once a round. Maybe he can land a crazy overhand or something…
by ununkvadrium on Mar 21, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Rashad's cardio isn't good...
He’s just lucky that his last couple of fights were against opponents with terrible cardio. Rampage has been suspect for a while and Silva was too gassed to finish him when he rocked him.
Jones had an awfully high work rate in the 3rd for a guy who was exhausted
I admit he looked tired. But if Rashad’s plan is to get beaten up like Rua for three rounds and pour it on in the 4th, I kinda question whether that will work for him.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Mar 21, 2011 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Rashad's biggest strength is his cardio?
Did it disappear the last two fights?
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
No surprise at all
Evans might be a good value bet, but nowhere near as good as a Rua bet was. Shad’s only chance is to catch him like he did Liddell or Salmon – if he doesn’t, this is gonna go down a lot like the Bader or Matyushenko fight by my guess.
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Mar 20, 2011 11:37 PM EDT reply actions
I know probability and all
But it’s impossible to say that Rua was a value bet at this point having retrospect.
Not afraid to nitpick
hindsight is 20/20
I make that bet every day of the week. One never EVER knows how good the hype is until the shit goes down. Now on a rematch, I wouldn’t touch Rua unless he was something like +600, and even then I’d have reservations.
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Mar 22, 2011 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Try and imagine Rashad fighting Hamil. Now imagine Jones fighting Hamil…wait…
I don’t see Jones/Rashad going at all differently from Jones Hamil.
I was impressed to see Jones’ standup technique quite improved compared to his Bader fight. His jab looked pretty good and it even had enough snap on it to do significant damage. His kicks are extremely potent. They snap with a lot of leverage and force and speed. They also come out of nowhere, it seems impossible to be able dodge them, and the force is enough that blocking them still seems to do a good amount of damage. I just don’t see what Rashad is going to be able to do about it. If Jones sticks with Greg, and Rashad trains elsewhere, Jones is going to absolutely kill him.
my band
http://www.groggybikini.com
Greg won't train Jones. He's on the record on that front.
That means Rashad has a small chance do do what he needs to do.
by Unabomberman on Mar 20, 2011 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
He might just add unpredictable groin strikes to his already impressive repertoire.
Learned straight from the master:
by Unabomberman on Mar 20, 2011 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Dynamic and explosive
Strikes to the groin. The new breed of groin strikes, if you will
Sports is human life in microcosm. ~Howard Cosell
The more you sweat in practice, the less you bleed in battle. ~Author Unknown
The breakfast of champions is not cereal, it's the opposition. ~Nick Seitz
Yeah. It seemed to me that Jones was doing a lot of illegal neck strikes in the Rua fight. Are those legal? I am pretty sure they arent. Jones’ spinning elbow against Bonnar landed squarely on the back of his head too. Do you get a pass for a spinning elbow?
Werdum beat Fedor, Dos Santos beat Werdum, Joaquim Ferreira beat Dos Santos. Therefore Ferreira is WAAAAY better than Fedor. Keep MMA math alive!
Now, did he say...
he won’t TRAIN Jones, or just that he won’t corner Jones? Especially if Evans hits the road?
"Don't be intimidated by other teams. You guys got bubble gum cards, too. Let's go." - Buck Showalter
“I don’t see Jones/Rashad going at all differently from Jones Hamil.”
So you think Jones will lose?
Hey UFC4 go fuck yourself, how about that? Fucking punk, I was just asking for the source that says lesnar gets 5 mill a fight, it’s obvious one does not exist. Bunch of gabronis on a site pulling figures out of your ass.
by Garrett Bennicas
by ufc4 on Mar 20, 2011 11:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Not a spinning back elbow
But a spinning back knee to the groin….should be allowed. Every fighter gets one per career.
Sports is human life in microcosm. ~Howard Cosell
The more you sweat in practice, the less you bleed in battle. ~Author Unknown
The breakfast of champions is not cereal, it's the opposition. ~Nick Seitz
Reply
failure…dmanit
Sports is human life in microcosm. ~Howard Cosell
The more you sweat in practice, the less you bleed in battle. ~Author Unknown
The breakfast of champions is not cereal, it's the opposition. ~Nick Seitz
At the very least you've coined a new word to evoke the purest fail: dmanit.
by Unabomberman on Mar 21, 2011 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions
If you're gonna go for it
Go all the way
Sports is human life in microcosm. ~Howard Cosell
The more you sweat in practice, the less you bleed in battle. ~Author Unknown
The breakfast of champions is not cereal, it's the opposition. ~Nick Seitz
by warren305 on Mar 21, 2011 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
from Rashad's Twitter:
I will not use Greg ever again.. I really haven’t used him in a while anyways.. In my last 2 fights I trained with him 5x’s..
Greg brought this situation about. He brought Jones on board a while back against my wishes & here we r today.
so I decided 2 leave Greg because I felt like he didn’t have my best interest anymore. Greg is not the same coach he use 2 b.
I know @jonnybones style well cuz we trained 2gether & he knows mine. Now it’s just a matter of who payed more attention or held back more.
by darkotto23 on Mar 21, 2011 12:12 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Not to be an ass to Rashad, as I'm pulling for him...
but it’s ‘paid’ not ‘payed’.
by Unabomberman on Mar 21, 2011 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Or maybe my english teacher was an asshole and didn't teach me that?
by Unabomberman on Mar 21, 2011 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions
And it’s “are” not “r”.
Twitter: @FlyByKnite
by FlyByKnight on Mar 21, 2011 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but dude's on a phone and on a character budget.
by Unabomberman on Mar 21, 2011 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
rec'd for learning me the phrase
“Character budget”
"Every time I talk on the phone with someone who doesn’t know me, they call me "ma’am"." - Scott C. Broussard
by Earl Montclair on Mar 21, 2011 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Okay, what's a 'rec' and what does it do? I see it thrown around but my ignorant ass doesn't know what it means.
by Unabomberman on Mar 21, 2011 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
It makes you’re a part of Bloody Elbow royalty.
Twitter: @FlyByKnite
by FlyByKnight on Mar 21, 2011 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions
*means, not makes. I failed.
Twitter: @FlyByKnite
by FlyByKnight on Mar 21, 2011 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Click 'actions' next to a comment
And ‘rec’, Im new here but I guess its a gold star for comment excellance, no?
Sports is human life in microcosm. ~Howard Cosell
The more you sweat in practice, the less you bleed in battle. ~Author Unknown
The breakfast of champions is not cereal, it's the opposition. ~Nick Seitz
that pretty much sums it up
"Every time I talk on the phone with someone who doesn’t know me, they call me "ma’am"." - Scott C. Broussard
by Earl Montclair on Mar 21, 2011 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Kinda like a poke of Facebook
Except when other guys do it, you don’t de-friend them
Sports is human life in microcosm. ~Howard Cosell
The more you sweat in practice, the less you bleed in battle. ~Author Unknown
The breakfast of champions is not cereal, it's the opposition. ~Nick Seitz
I cracked up at that because I've actually temporarily defriended other guys for poking me on facebook.
Lame thing to admit to but meh.
But FFS don't try that on Mania, without a seriously shit-proof umbrella...
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 21, 2011 1:59 AM EDT up reply actions
I am pulling for Rashad
Just due to the hate the guy deals with from fans. But it is a little telling that he didn’t want Jones in the camp in the first place. I still want to see Rashad school Jones
Sports is human life in microcosm. ~Howard Cosell
The more you sweat in practice, the less you bleed in battle. ~Author Unknown
The breakfast of champions is not cereal, it's the opposition. ~Nick Seitz
I know @jonnybones style well cuz we trained 2gether & he knows mine. Now it’s just a matter of who payed more attention or held back more.
My money would be on Jones holding back, out of respect when they trained. I think Rashad is going to be shocked when he discovers just how fast and how strong Jones really is.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 21, 2011 1:58 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
But on the other hand, my money would be on Rashad holding back as in “not showing Jones all his best tricks to preserve an edge”.
To save me some time on 25% of all threads, here's the universal answer to the Fedor-debate: Fedor is the most accomplished MMA fighter ever. That is a fact. If he still is the best fighter at this point in time is up for debate.
If they really had a gentleman’s agreement directly with each other that they would never fight…its still hard to say actually… If it were me, I would never, ever show a potential competitor everything I had, but I’m just an asshole like that sometimes…
Having said that, if they really did have an agreement between the two of them (not just the Jackson umbrella of teammates don’t fight each other), then the honorable thing for Jones to do would have been to say so back when he was asked, unless he and Rashad had privately agreed otherwise.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 21, 2011 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s incredible how much hate a classy guy like Evans got from the crowd last night. He’s always been above reproach in everything he’s said, is a nice guy, and far more professional than nearly every other fighter in the game. I’m not a fan, just because I don’t particularly like his style, but man it’s ridiculous.
Also, is it bad that I find that the good bet here is Jones? This guy is going to have far more obscene lines than like GSP-Hardy. Absolutely insane.
"Rather than love, than money, than faith, than fame, than fairness... give me truth."
Chris McCandless A.K.A. Alexander Supertramp
1968-1992
I'd like to see Evans under this pressure
I really think he can take a fight to Jones, he just needs to focus on himself and not this stuff around him.
He is more upset that he knew he would win a shogun fight and get that title, he needs to get over this drama and stop giving people ammo. I think Rashad gets overly emotional for all the wrong reasons, he needs to stop doing that he is rapidly becoming a person that gets alot of flack from fight fans
Its just a waiting game, the LHW division is the glamour division in the UFC, that title always looks for a new owner, if Jones wants to celebrate one incredible accomplishment it would be to keep a hold of that belt for 5+ fights.
While Rampage is one of my favorites, he's also a complete dick.
"Rather than love, than money, than faith, than fame, than fairness... give me truth."
Chris McCandless A.K.A. Alexander Supertramp
1968-1992
Your English teacher also
Brought in fresh young talent to compete with you. He secretly wanted you to fail all along. And now you must avenge your honor and prove your worth. You must win a speaking contest.
i'm pretty sure..
..rashad’s coming up with a suspicious ‘injury’ and is going to pull out of the fight let’s say 4 weeks before it’ll happen.
"Blow it out your ass."
by IGotBallsOfSteel on Mar 21, 2011 6:03 AM EDT reply actions
Rashad seriously being underestimated on here.
Hes an explosive unpredicatable fighter with great wrestling and heavy hands. Hes intelligent and already knows Jones tricks.
I think Jones really should be the favourite but not by this wide a margin.
In the end though it is just Vegas trying to get people to bet on Shad. He wasn’t convincing in his last fight and hasn’t fought in a long time and Jones has been fighting constantly and tearing through people so you have to factor in the perceptions when making the betting lines.
"Knows" Bones
As far as Rashad knowing everything about Jones, he may want to hold his horses just a smidgen. The Jones we saw Saturday night looked significantly better on his feet than the one we saw against Bader just 6 weeks ago. Every fight out, Bones shows something incredible that we have never seen. I have a very strong feeling that Rashad has never seen all that Jones has to offer, and at the rate of his improvement, there will probably be a lot more to offer in 4-6 months when the fight happens.
I have a very strong feeling that Rashad has never seen all that Jones has to offer, and at the rate of his improvement, there will probably be a lot more to offer in 4-6 months when the fight happens.
I agree, but even if he had somehow seen all he had at that point, Jones will go to work on adding techniques that look or start like something he has done before, but are designed to take advantage of Rashad’s knowledge.
Aside from the old “puncher’s chance”, Rashad doesn’t have one here.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 21, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Rashad will get fucked up hard. We’re about to see what Jones does to someone he’s pissed at in a fight.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Time to put some meat in your pain sandwich.
by Ubernoober on Mar 21, 2011 10:15 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
The reach
I must confess i did not read all 180-posts, But has anyone mentioned jones’ ridiculous reach advantage? The guy has a 7’ span, all he has to do is stand on the other side of the cage and punch Rashad in the face. Don’t get me wrong Jones does have skill, but the main reason he wins most of his fights is that reach andvantage, because no one can get inside, I wish i could see how good he was if he was a normal lengthed 205-er.
by supermanpunch7 on Mar 21, 2011 10:59 AM EDT reply actions
Funny how everyone said before the fight that Jones had no idea how to use his reach advantage properly… and now after the fight, it’s now unfair that he’s finally used his reach advantage properly. Haters are going to hate, as they say.
If people aren’t confortable with Jones’s reach advantage, maybe they should cut a little weight and fight at MW… Shogun, Machida and Evans, especially. They aren’t very big guys and should be fighting at MW.
Damn.
That’s a crazy line. Didn’t expect the margin to be quite that wide.
Reporting from inside a padded cage at MMAmadman.com.
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