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Around SBN: UFC 146 Results: Junior dos Santos TKO's Frank Mir

UFC 128 Results: A Minute By Minute Breakdown of Jon Jones Versus Shogun Rua

Jon Jones just became the youngest champion in UFC history, beating Mauricio Rua in the third round of Saturday's UFC light heavyweight title bout. But how did he do it? Let's break it down, minute but minute, blow by blow.

After Bruce Buffer's typically insane introduction and Joe Rogan's ill advised Mike Tyson comparisons, it was time to get it on. Rogan and Mike Goldberg had the call. Referee Herb Dean asked for just two things -to follow the rules and protect themselves at all times. Seems fair enough. Are you ready to crown a king? Pictured techniques in bold beneath each photo.

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00:00- 01:00: Shogun stalks Jones and is met immediately with a flying knee attempt. Jones was looking for something spectacular early. Instead he'd have to settle for 12 minutes of amazing. Jones throws a left head kick and a right front kick and Shogun shrugs both off to grab a clinch. Rua is in a difficult spot. The shorter fighter usually wants to close the distance like this with someone as long as Jones. The problem here? You're closing the distance into the grasp of a man with the best clinch takedowns in the game.Picture_12_medium

Jones breaks free and throws a spinning back kick. "Unorthodox," is what Mike Goldberg calls it. I can't help but agree. Keep in mind all this has happened in just 20 seconds. We're off and running at a super fast pace. As the first 30 seconds comes to a close, Jones plants Rua with a vicious takedown. If you're a Rua fan, things are not looking good right about now. Rogan is spot on about Rua looking for an underhook on Jones' leg but Jones is too savvy, strong, and long for that to possible work.

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01:00-02:00: Jones is in half guard and looking for the same choke or neck crank he finished Ryan Bader with. Shogun considers a knee bar, but pulls guard instead. Jones looks to strike for the first time with 3:15 remaining in the round, landing a light right hand, following quickly with a left elbow. Shogun looks very small beneath him.

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02:00-03:00: Rogan is still spot on calling the action. Rua is able to underhook Jones's right leg and grimaces in hope and pain, looking for a miracle sweep. Jones never even seems to move. The size and strength different is marked and Rua is now in half guard. Jones grabs Shogun's temple here and Herb Dean warns him to stay away from the eyes. It may have possibly been the first MMA attempt at Baron Von Rasche's "Iron Claw."

Jones lands two left elbows and right to the body. Rua absorbs it in order to resume the full guard. Jones lands two more left elbows to Shogun's doughy mid section. Rua uses it as an opportunity to move his legs up for a possible triangle. Say what you will about Shogun - he certainly doesn't lack toughness. He's willing to take a few to get the position he wants.

Picture_16_medium

03:00-04:00: As Jones postures up and begins working at a faster pace, Herb Dean notices his thumb in Rua's neck. Things are getting down and dirty in New Jersey. Rua looks to scramble to his feet and Jones lets him go, making him pay with a huge left knee to the body, following with a right kick to the head the moment it becomes legal. That's followed in turn by a left, right, left combination and business, as they say, is picking up.

Jones loses some momentum with a missed frontkick and a knee stomp that just grazes the champion. Rogan announces Shogun is hurt just as he lets go with his own desperation left hand. Jones counters with a right, but the Rua punch spooks him into letting his prey off the cage. Jones watches with a dispassionate separation as Rua comes stumbling forward, clearly dazed. Rua throws a right but Goldberg notes "how wobbly he is." Jones looks for a finish with an uppercut that hits nothing but air. Had it landed, we'd still be looking for Rua's teeth in the Prudential Center.

Jones throws another side kick. He's clearly targeting the knee, but Rogan calls it a kick to the thigh. Jones grabs a thai clinch and lets loose with another knee. Shogun is just looking to survive here, but the pace has slowed to the point it seems Jones might let him. Jones switches stances to let lose a huge left that was a fight ender if it lander solidly. It does not. He closes the minute of action with a left to the body followed by a knee to the body. Is there any wonder Shogun had little left later in the fight? Jones is working the body hard here.

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04:00-05:00: Jones pushes Rua into the cage and then lands another kick to the knee. Knowing the struggles Rua has faced with multiple surgeries, this is brutal and ugly stuff from a determined and vicious fighter. Shogun lands his best punches of the fight, a left-right combo that made Jones take a step back. "He looks like he's a full weight class bigger than Shogun," Rogan proclaims. He's absolutely right. Jones throws a spinning elbow that misses and Shogun has the temporary advantage. Instead of doing what he does best, he inexplicably falls back for a leg lock. "Very bad," Rogan says. Jones proceeds to headbutt Rua in the stomach. Between this, the knee stomp, and the iron claw, it's been an ugly fight.

After the break: Rounds two and three in detail.

Ufc_128_event_button_medium 

Star-divide

Round 2:

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00:00-01:00: Jones throws a leg kick, that Shogun checks, but it's worth remarking that Rua hasn't thrown a single kick at Jones's skinny legs. It was supposed to be a huge advantage for him, but it's a weapon he's left in the holster. Shogun misses wildly with a left and ends up against the cage. Jones lands his famed spinning elbow. It does some damage, and boy is it exciting. He follows with a left and Shogun is looking out of his league.

Jones lands a Superman jab and Shogun circles out of trouble. Jones lands two leg kicks and Shogun misses wildly. "Shogun is too slow," Rogan proclaims. It does seem the Brazilian is moving through molasses.

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01:00-02:00: Jones lands another leg stomp and then palms Rua's face. That was a Liddell style eye poke just waiting to happen, but luckily the blow ends up incident free. He continues to throw an open hand out there, finally landing with a knee to the body as Rua looks to clinch. They trade some tepid knees before Shogun breaks contact.

Shogun is still struggling badly with Jones's reach advantage, missing badly on a right-left combo. Jones loads up on a right hand to the head and then a wicked left to the body. Shogun charges in like a bull throwing wildly, but Jones sees him coming a mile away.

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02:00-03:00: Jones is switching regularly between southpaw and orthodox stances here. Rua hardly seems to notice. Does it matter if the only science in your style is gleaned from watching bull fights? When he goes southpaw, he makes it count, nailing Rua with two big lefts. Jones is landing a series of punches and kicks and Rua has no answer. At 2:40 remaining in round two he throws his first leg kick. Jones catches it and puts him on his back. It was that kind of night for Rua.

He lands two big lefts and then goes for an old school can opener, rubbing his head on Rua's face, eventually covering up Shogun's mouth with his hand. It's worth noting that Jones, for all his values talk, is not afraid to push the rules to the breaking point. He's not throwing much here, but does land two nice elbows from inside Rua's guard.

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03:00-04:00: Jones continues his ground and pound attack with more elbows to the body while Goldberg runs down his resume. It's honestly a little thin. That's about to change. Jones is trying to pass to half guard and Rua uses the opportunity to attempt a sweep. Jones wins the battle. Rua is trying to defend the elbows he knows are coming by putting a hand on his face. Literally.

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04:00-05:00: Golberg points out how patient Jones is being with his ground and pound and it's true. For better or worse, there is no Shane Carwin style attack here. Jones is preserving energy for a five round fight, even at the cost of a potential early stoppage. It's smart and patient, especially for a 23 year old fighter in his first PPV main event. Rua continues to look for the same sweep over and over again. Jones puts his forearm in Rua's neck to drive the point home: it's not happening. After some "stay busy" ground and pound, Jones closes the round with his own kneebar attempt, landing a hammerfist for good measure. It wasn't a real attempt - he knew how much time was left. But it sent a message for sure.

Round 3:

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00:00-01:00: "Shogun is a champion for a reason," Goldberg says to to open the round, trying to make the audience believe the fight will suddenly get a lot more competitive. Shogun misses badly with several punches, still chasing Jones, still unable to find him in range. Jones misses badly with an uppercut and the pace has slowed quite a bit from the furious first round.

Jones misses with a headkick, giving Shogun a momentary advantage on his back. The Brazilian tries to pull him to the mat. He wasn't diving for a leglock, as Rogan claimed in the commentary, but when Jones didn't budge and he slipped free of his waistlock, that was his fall back move. Jones ends up in dominant position, but can't secure a Kimura.

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01:00-02:00: "It's man against boy," Rogan says and it looks like it. Jones looks to trap Rua's arm and do some serious damage, landing a couple of strong lefts before Rua can pull his arm free and defend. A three punch combination follows. Jones is starting to let loose, dropping seven consecutive punches on Rua, many at least partially deflected.

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02:00-03:00: At the 2:50 mark, Jones lands a huge left hand as the crows oohed their appreciation. A left and right elbow were next and suddenly Shogun wasn't defending nearly as effectively. Now Jon Jones is attacking furiously with a combination of elbows and punches. After a knee to the body, Shogun staggers to his feet. A big body punch is followed by a knee and Herb Dean is right there to stop the fight.

Jon Jones is the new light heavyweight champion of the world. It was a route standing, in the clinch, and on the mat. Jones showed as wide a variety of techniques as anyone in UFC history - including some beyond the confines of the rules. It's a lot for potential opponents to take in. Jon Jones, it turns out, is an even more dangerous man than we thought.

Edit: For your edification- The Rules

13:46-24A.15 Fouls

(a) The following are fouls and will result in penalties if committed:
1. Butting with the head;
2. Eye gouging of any kind;
3. Biting or spitting at an opponent;
4. Hair pulling;
5. Fish hooking;
6. Groin attacks of any kind;
7. Intentionally placing a finger in any opponent’s orifice;
8. Downward pointing of elbow strikes;
9. Small joint manipulation;
10. Strikes to the spine or back of the head;
11. Heel kicks to the kidney;
12. Throat strikes of any kind;
13. Clawing, pinching, twisting the flesh or grabbing the clavicle;
14. Kicking the head of a grounded fighter;
15. Kneeing the head of a grounded fighter;
16. Stomping of a grounded fighter;
17. The use of abusive language in fighting area;
18. Any unsportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to opponent;
19. Attacking an opponent on or during the break;
20. Attacking an opponent who is under the referee’s care at the time;
21. Timidity (avoiding contact, or consistent dropping of mouthpiece, or faking an injury);
22. Interference from a mixed martial artists seconds;
23. Throwing an opponent out of the fighting area;
24. Flagrant disregard of the referee’s instructions;
25. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his or her head or neck.

Comment 443 comments  |  10 recs  | 

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Yes.

It was the knee that first put him on queer street. I knew I saw it right.

by Unabomberman on Mar 20, 2011 5:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Nope....The Flying Knee Missed

I saw it on the UFC stream, and went back to see the other angle because the Broadcast team never showed that replay…but it missed. Also, the strike that changed the fight was the soccer kick, Shin-to-Face and the BRUTAL Left hand that followed it…From that point on it looked like Shogun was stuck in 2nd gear while Jones was in 6th. He was hurt badly and never recovered…I STILL believe that Shogun has what it takes to beat Bones, and ill be a Rua fan for life….i may be stupid, but im LOYAL AS HELL!! War Shogun…

I like to Compare my Fighting Style to like, say a Honda Civic.....Im Not The Biggest, Fastest, Strongest Car on the Lot, but Im Efficient on Gas...-Nam Phan

by Curtis Wooden on Mar 20, 2011 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah that kick was the beginning of a long end to the fight. Shogun had nothing but heart from that point on and Jon was landing big shots to both head and body consistently from then on.

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 20, 2011 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah it wasn’t full force, it was at the end of the knee’s arc, but it connected. Don’t think it did a lot other let Shogun know what he was in for.

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 20, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

No.

The strike connected, not flush, but it connected.

You have to keep in mind that the hit was sort of a scraping move on his jaw, and considering the speed of Jones’ limb, his knee was carrying a shitload of momentum. I’m sure it did exactly the trick.

It was a fantastic hit that put Shogun on queer street.

by Unabomberman on Mar 20, 2011 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m doubtful that the effect was as much physical as psychological. Shogun recovers quickly, but he gave up the initiative to Jon there, and never even moved to regain it. You may be right though, I just didn’t see him reeling from it at all.

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 20, 2011 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nope. He reeled.

That’s classic physics 101, and that was an inelastic collision. Not all energy is transferred from one body to the other (from 1 to 2), as some is lost in other bits, but what does get transferred is enough to change the state of movement of body number 2, Shogun’s head, some way back. Now, if you bring into it the total mass of body 1, Jones’ knee, and its perceived angular speed (a lot), you can conclude that the transfer of momentum was fuckin’ rad.

it doesn’t have to look hard for it to be hard, just base the assumption off of Jones’ limb speed and its mass.

That hit is a testament to Shogun’s chin more than anything else.

by Unabomberman on Mar 20, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

How the strike “looked” wasn’t the point. The point is that it wasn’t determinate in the fight. Shogun was physically fine. He wasn’t rocked from that point on. Thanks for the physics lesson but it wasn’t inelastic. Shogun was turning away from it. He wasn’t in a static position, and the knee glanced off his cheek. There was certainly some force behind it, but it didn’t even compare to the soccer kick to the face later on. That shit landed flush, face to shin.

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 20, 2011 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

It wasn't inelastic?

Are you implying that there was conservation of kinetic energy from before the collision to after the collision? ‘Cause that surely wasn’t the case.

And it wasn’t just a glance, watch the gif again. His head is moved backwards and upwards from the hit and in the centrifugal direction of Jones’ limb movement, meaning that that particular directional coefficient overrode all the rest, enough to be significant. Hell, even if it was a “glance,” the sheer speed of Jones’ limb negates the argument that it wasn’t a strong hit.

Look, I believe we will disagree in this, but I cannot just change my oppinion based on what I’ve seen. And also, I’m not saying that the soccer kick was less significant than that first knee, just that that first knee put Shogun on queer street just long enough for Jones to build on that and do what he wanted to do appropriately from then on.

The last soccer kick was definitely way harder.

by Unabomberman on Mar 20, 2011 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah I don’t think we’re arguing over much here. I thought there was more deflection than you do, as it appeared to be Shogun was already turning outside of Jon’s impact line, resulting in a more glancing blow. No big deal. The point here, for the uninterested in physics, was how much it hurt Shogun, and judging by shots I’ve seen him walk through in his career, I thought he was just stunned for a moment and fully recovered quickly. Now mentally, spiritually, I don’t think he fully recovered, because he was tentative after that and showed zero initiative. We’re close though, let’s not parse this too much:)

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 20, 2011 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Aww hell:) It looked to me more like he was moving diagonally based on the punch he threw, but when the knee hits, he is pulling back to his center right in front of it. That probably would’ve dropped a lot of guys. So I’ll defer, it was probably worse than I originally thought.

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 20, 2011 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah...

Hell of a chin, that Shogun guy.

by Unabomberman on Mar 20, 2011 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

No doubt, regardless of what % of energy came along with it....

he took a serious shot from that opening knee.

CroCop vs BigNog, under the Strikeforce banner, in Alabama! #buhbye

Wanna chat MMA or just shoot the shit, I got opinions! Twitter away.

by SteveevaD on Mar 20, 2011 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

The nature of the collision has little to do with whether he reeled or not

“Reeling” is a biological phenomenon, which means there’s more that just energy transfer and deformations to consider.

A shot to the shoulder will produce different effects when landed to the temple, which is why the discussion so far has been concerned with where the knee actually landed and the direction of the impact.

by Shaun32887 on Mar 21, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I loved the left hand in the third because he reached for the ankle to fake a guard pass

and when shogun put his hands down…..he just crashed it right on the jaw.

BIG NOG for Life
One Step closer to Gleison Tibau @ 145
If the round is too close, it's 10-10, NOT flip a coin 10-9 or late takedown FTW.

by NNR (formerly NameNotRequired) on Mar 20, 2011 5:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Straight to the jaw.

It was kinda like the Noons-Gurgel cheapshot in that Shogun was never the same after it.

by Unabomberman on Mar 20, 2011 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I did see it, and I did see Herb Dean tell Jones to let that go.

I’m not going to hate on him ‘cause he may just get well over excited, but that’s just how he rolls. maybe he’s a vicious guy, after all, and has a real mean streak the way some people have one and it doesn’t show.

by Unabomberman on Mar 20, 2011 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

He doesn't need to do that shit though.

I’m obviously a huge Shogun fan. It’s been well chronicled here. But Jones made it pretty clear that last night he was going to win that fight and nobody should dispute that.

The dirty shit was unnecessary. Just uncalled for. I do not like dirty fighters. For as much as I rag on Jones as a personality I’ve always been kind to him as an athlete. That courtesy isn’t going to last while he continues like this.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Mar 20, 2011 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I think every fight he tries to test the rules to the limit

I don’t think he is acting alone in this. In other words the Jackson camp is trying to see what he can do that’s (for now) legal.

"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles

by SSreporters on Mar 20, 2011 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree about the throat shots

I just watched it again- that shit was tough to watch. Herb Dean should have been more on that. The headbutt in the belly was nothing to me, the knee kicks were legal but man he was crushing him, I don’t know how necessary they were. I just think Jones was in a zone of destruction, and whatever tactics came to him creatively were going to happen.

by chimps on Mar 20, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jone's Strength and Weakness

I think Jones is amazing creative and instinctive. He does things that other guys just don’t think of doing (spinning attacks, lots of knees and elbows to the body), but part of that is also doing things that might not be legal. I expect in his career he could lose another fight because of a creative move that is illegal that he just doesn’t need to do.

As far as the knee attacks. Totally fare. They aren’t illegal and that is good game planning. No better way to get in Shogun’s head then making him think twice about a 4th knee surgery. I can’t expect Jones to change his game plan because he is winning easily.

by SES 84 on Mar 20, 2011 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

It isn't creative, it is dirty...

Iron fists, throat shots, head butting, it isn’t creative, it is just plain dirty fighting, if the guys doest that winning, can you imagine what he can do losing…

by Goethe on Mar 21, 2011 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Are you allowed to cover the mouth of your opponent?

Because Jones did that several times. Didn’t know you could headbutt to the chest either.

"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles

by SSreporters on Mar 20, 2011 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah. Hendo did that same shit to Anderson in the first round (covering the mouth). But I guess mixed martial arts fighters are like physicists: if it is not strictly forbidden by the rules than maybe you can fuck around with it, see what happens.

by Unabomberman on Mar 20, 2011 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's allowed

but he did also put his thumb and index fingers on Shogun’s eyes, but Herb didn’t catch that.

yo no quiero hacer mas nada

by Orcus on Mar 20, 2011 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did he do it explosively and athletically?

"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles

by SSreporters on Mar 20, 2011 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

But does he have the best smile in the UFC?

I don’t think so. He’s never faced the smile of someone like Wanderlei Silva. Does he even have the experience?

"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles

by SSreporters on Mar 20, 2011 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

haha

that’s because his smiles arrogantly, Wanderlei has a humble smile :p

yo no quiero hacer mas nada

by Orcus on Mar 20, 2011 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wanderlei has an evil smile

That, by the way, is a compliment.

Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.

by Dave Strummer on Mar 20, 2011 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Wanderlai’s smile is permenant, so it isn’t really a fair comparison.

by xDieseLx on Mar 20, 2011 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

looked like he was a bit

and he did it on purpose, but even if he was not squeezing, you’re not allowed to place your fingers there, at all…

yo no quiero hacer mas nada

by Orcus on Mar 20, 2011 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

it was a split second

Once again, anything Herb said he stopped doing. This small window of possible eye gouging had ZERO effect on the fight

by silent.bisonte33 on Mar 20, 2011 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can't believe we're having this conversation

a split second, whatever dude, having fingers placed on your eyes can bother you quite a bit, and just because it had “zero effect on the fight”, doesn’t make it right.

yo no quiero hacer mas nada

by Orcus on Mar 20, 2011 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

youre right it doesn't make it right

but in mma there are always split second moments that happen. do you know how many shots to the back of the head don’t get called in a flurry? shit happens, its a fight, the refs do the best they can. he wasn’t poking him, or gouging his eyes.

by silent.bisonte33 on Mar 20, 2011 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

no

strikes to the back of the head can be unintentional most of the times. groin strikes can be unintentional most of the times, when you’re on top and placing your fingers in someone’s eyes, that’s more than likely intentional, that’s the difference

yo no quiero hacer mas nada

by Orcus on Mar 20, 2011 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

his palm is on his mouth!

if his long ass fingers go into his eye whoop. hey i know you like shogun and all but Jones haters have seriously gone from “rua will outstrike and outclass him” to “jones uses illegal moves to win”. it’s a fight. he didn’t gouge his eyes. or poke them. they were there.

by silent.bisonte33 on Mar 20, 2011 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

no one here

said Jones uses illegal moves to win, hence why I said his hutthugery fans are getting way defensive

yo no quiero hacer mas nada

by Orcus on Mar 20, 2011 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

this nuthuggery

is def going both ways. I simply stated to start that he has big ass fingers. Somebody else here kept arguing the point. Just relish in the fact that we saw a masterful domination of a guy who made a living dominating others.

by silent.bisonte33 on Mar 20, 2011 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

again,

you said people are claiming “Jones uses illegal moves to win”, you made that claim, when no one is doing that, at all… that’s you being a nutthuger, just accept it bro :p

yo no quiero hacer mas nada

by Orcus on Mar 20, 2011 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

youre right

i didn’t quote anything. I was using the implied feeling of the entire conversation. Just let go. I grew up on Pride living in japan for so long. If i can do it, so can you.

by silent.bisonte33 on Mar 20, 2011 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

sigh

i feel like this convo got lost the same way emotions get lost in text messages. Hey man, youre right. He shouldn’t have had his long fingers there at all.

by silent.bisonte33 on Mar 20, 2011 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

ok

yo no quiero hacer mas nada

by Orcus on Mar 20, 2011 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I called this in another post.

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/3/19/2060720/jon-jones-and-trainers-catch-robber-hours-before-ufc-128#61809997

Jones displayed extremely impulsive behavior by doing this.
If this is a precursor of his mindset going into this fight, that’s not good for Rua. Hopefully Jones doesn’t impulsively fire off some illegal 12-6’s, shots to the back of Rua’s head, or kneeing Rua’s head while he’s considered down.

I have a bad feeling about this fight. I have a feeling Jones is gonna do something illegal or borderline illegal impulsively, without thinking, that Shogun is gonna have to recover from. I could see Jones getting warned for it or getting away with it. But, the fight never being the same afterwards. Much like the Bisping/Rivera fight. People will argue the fight was already over or that was the turning point. But, either way it won’t be good.

I didn’t specifically call the throat shots, knee kicks, eye gouging, or suffacation, but I had an idea it would be along those lines.

Just Breed!

by ScoreCardOTN on Mar 20, 2011 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

your late to the party

the knee kicks aren’t illegal.
and none of the other things was what caused Rua to lose. Have you not seen the GIF of the knee? Or how about Jones shin catching Rua flush in the face?

by silent.bisonte33 on Mar 20, 2011 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gouging is illegal. Blocking the guy’s vision or covering his mouth and nose is just smart.

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 20, 2011 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I can't believe people are making a big deal out of this.

Jones didn’t eye gouge him. So what the hell is the point? I don’t think it was his intention at all; an MMA fight is fast paced and adrenaline fueled- why would he bother to eye gouge someone he was utterly dominating, and who he appears to have at least some degree of respect for?

by Charger567 on Mar 20, 2011 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jones is a wild guy, that’s it. He’ll get better.

by Unabomberman on Mar 20, 2011 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

the point is that Jones has some huge nutthugers

you can’t even talk about stuff he did in the fight without having his fans getting wildly defensive about them

yo no quiero hacer mas nada

by Orcus on Mar 20, 2011 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well

when you’ve absolutely mauled everyone you’ve fought on the biggest stage in the world and then you batter a legend from pillar to post that tends to happen.

It certainly works both ways where lots of Shogun and Pride fans are looking for reasons to bitch about Jones’ performance.

by TMadeBurner on Mar 20, 2011 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not doing that

I’m just talking about him placing his fingers in Shogun’s eyes, which he did… that’s it.

yo no quiero hacer mas nada

by Orcus on Mar 20, 2011 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

“On” his eyes.

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 20, 2011 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah the eye stuff was nothing, that happens all the time- a guy has fingers around the eyes when he is in top position. I definitely remember Sonnen doing it a ton to Silva.

I didn’t like the elbows targetting Shogun’s trachea. I have never heard if it’s illegal or not, but it should be.

by chimps on Mar 20, 2011 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is.

I posted the rules in this comment esction but the blockquote messed up. For reference:

12. Throat strikes of any kind;

From the list of the 25 fouls under the Unified Rules of Mixed Martial Arts in New Jersey. http://www.state.nj.us/lps/sacb/docs/martial.html

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Mar 20, 2011 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s pretty bad. I hope someone addresses it publicly at some point. Fighters can’t go around using throat strikes just like they cannot go hitting the back of the head.

Though Dean caution Jones to stop, though.

by Unabomberman on Mar 20, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah those were the only thing I took issue with. He didn’t gouge, but those short elbows to the throat were a little much. It’s hard to see how driving your forearm into a guy’s throat is alright, when a strike there isn’t. Guys do get hit in the throat all the time accidentally, but Jon knew where he was, and I think was just trying to make Shogun uncomfortable. Shouldn’t happen though.

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 20, 2011 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

It’s just how it goes, and it was addressed by Dean, as he should have, but a little more high profile discussion could benefit everyone.

I don’t understand why there are guys around here whining, as if we shouldn’t point this thing out.

by Unabomberman on Mar 20, 2011 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly. I’ve been pretty irritated at the over the top hate Jon’s been catching around here, but he’s not above getting called out for illegal strikes. Hopefully he’ll be more aware, though I suspect he doesn’t read BE.

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 20, 2011 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

The straight choke is nasty and uncomfortable, but forces a guy to move and react. It’s mean, but legal, and a good plan to disrupt a guy like Shogun and make him react instead of using his active guard to pressure you.

Jones repeatedly, intentionally threw illegal strikes though. Doesn’t matter if they changed anything or that he was going to win anyways. I don’t like guys who fight dirty and he’s made a pattern of it. It’s just a shitty way to compete.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Mar 20, 2011 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve got a long list of guys who punch the back of the head. I’m gonna watch Jon for this stuff, but I honestly gave him a pass for the Hamill fight. Jon is young in martial arts, striking within rules is something that’s gets ingrained over time. I really blamed Mazzagatti and Hamill’s deafness for that one. There should’ve been clear instructions to Matt to indicate that he was alright if he was in a bad way, and the fight should’ve been stopped before it even got to that point. It doesn’t excuse what happened, but it didn’t indicate dirtiness at all to me, just inexperience. We’ll see though. There’s enough chance of injury in MMA without guys purposefully pushing the boundaries.

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 20, 2011 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I mostly let it slide at the time

but the pattern can’t be ignored. And I can’t find his comments about it again, but he did an interview where he claimed ignorance of the rule. Didn’t really believe it then, since he didn’t throw them as part of hsi volume GNP to mix it up. He just went balls out on them out of nowhere. Seemed like he knew better but fine, lets buy the excuse.

In the same statement, he said he’d read the rules and be more aware so he didn’t have issues in the future. So what’s the excuse for multiple strikes to the throat a year later?

Again, it’s the pattern that’s damning. It’s not something like accidental strikes to the back of the head that can be written off as poor aim when an opponent is reacting and turning away. Just straight out dirty shit.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Mar 20, 2011 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well I trust your opinion on a lot of things. I’d like to see it again before I say more, but he definitely gets no free pass for those in my book.

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 20, 2011 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I need to rewatch it as well

but I consulted with several knowledgeable people who watched the fight as well before mentioning it here. I’m not a Jones fan and didn’t want to make baseless accusations because of that. But lots of other people saw it and agreed that, even though the fight was his, Jones pulled some bullshit. Which is a damn shame.

I’m sick of it though. Kizer backed up the DQ ruling against Hamill with instant replay and Jones appealed it anyways… despite his “humble” statements about it being a loss. Then again, he bitched out Thiago Silva saying “there are other ways to create openings than playing pattycake on a guys back.” I guess breaking the rules is less disrespectful to your opponent than two seconds of non-verbal taunting. And before you ask, the bongo thing was not a foul.

17. The use of abusive language in fighting area;
18. Any unsportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to opponent;

No injury, no abusive language.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Mar 20, 2011 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sure, I didn’t think the Thiago thing was a problem, just kind of being a dick. If he’d have done it to Tito we’d all be chuckling. I’ll watch it again tonight. I am a big fan of Jon:)full disclosure, but I don’t like cheating, it’s just that my sensibilities were built on soccer kicks and stomps, and it’s a fast paced sport. I’ll see what I think later.

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 20, 2011 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nick Diaz

Could be dq’d from every fight he’s ever been in with rule 17…

by Dootch on Mar 20, 2011 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah apparently there’s some flexibility in how the rules are applied. Nick just can’t help himself.

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 20, 2011 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think holding a champion fighter down

While trying to elbow his face/jaw and not get his neck is harder than one might imagine.

by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Mar 20, 2011 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s true, but it’s also a convenient excuse to do it. The problem is that his elbow is right there already, it’s not like he’s swinging it in much of an arc. He’s just turning it over from what I remember. So Yellow Card!!!

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 20, 2011 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

The flaw in this argument is the implication

That Jones is a “dirty” fighter, which is sort of a comment on his character/intents, since we all agree he doesn’t need the particular tactics to win. And trying to read someone’s intent is usually closely related to your own personal biases.

by DrFernando on Mar 20, 2011 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

He has a pattern of breaking the rules he agreed to compete under.

That’s a dirty fighter. Not sure where there’s an argument.

And I didn’t see anybody offering Bisping anywhere close to the same benefit of doubt. It’s crazy.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Mar 20, 2011 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dunno.

Shit happens. He has been on the wrong end of a rule (veras upkick). That was a potential fight finisher and truly highlights why the rules are there in the first place.

by silent.bisonte33 on Mar 20, 2011 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

You aren't fighter a stationary opponent...

(unless it’s BJ Penn lol).

Some things, like trying to elbow someone and movement causing a throat shot instead,is understandable. They were no eye pokes. No low blows. No fish hooks. Almost everything was run of the mill and you’d see it in any fight.

Everything but the headbutt to the chest should be chalked up as usual.

Please for the Love of all things holy don’t compare kneeing a down opponent quite obviously with what happend. Also: spitting on a guy pretty much removes all doubt that the knee was intentional.

Thanks.

by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Mar 20, 2011 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're being willfully ignorant or are a complete fool.

Either way, this is my last reply to you.

Jones put his elbow on Rua’s throat. Then he relieved pressure so Rua would move up, and then slammed his forearm directly into his throat. Three times. Put the appendage he was striking with on the target, then struck the target. The throat. Which is illegal.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Mar 20, 2011 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

really? at which point in the fight?

i am watching the fight right now. i see a “rape choke”, but no throat strikes.

by kellly on Mar 20, 2011 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't address the fact that Bisping spit on the guy

confirming what most thought was an illegal knee.

Just call names instead. You’re cool!

by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Mar 20, 2011 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

i definitely do not see jon jones as a dirty fighter

i’m just amazed that he shut down shogun’s ENTIRE guard game with a forearm on the throat… amazing.

by kellly on Mar 20, 2011 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

And sinking his base whenever Shogun tried to reach for his leg. Shogun couldn’t budge him in the slightest. The guy can post solidly so far in any direction. Pretty difficult to get out from under that.

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 20, 2011 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

He is really, really good at being heavy

"Don't be intimidated by other teams. You guys got bubble gum cards, too. Let's go." - Buck Showalter

by duck on Mar 20, 2011 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

How would you call that a pattern?

Between Hamill and this fight, he’s had 3 other fights, no major fouls as I recall?

by DrFernando on Mar 20, 2011 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

the elbow he hit bonnar with, and maybe jake o'brien

were back of the head or close. I don’t think those are intentionally that way, but a bit reckless i suppose.

GreenHouse

by Loot on Mar 20, 2011 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, but it would be as hard to plan those hits as "dirty"

ones, like you said I think he just goes for it and sometimes they land in the wrong spot.

by DrFernando on Mar 20, 2011 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

he probably doesn't care

about blowback from BE or any site. He wasn’t even looking at bonnar when he hit the “back” of his head.

by silent.bisonte33 on Mar 20, 2011 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I totally understand that

My point is that it seems a lot of these judgements/comments stem from pre-exisiting biased against Jones by Shogun fans and people who just don’t like JJ. Not yours particularly though.

by DrFernando on Mar 20, 2011 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

c'mon man

those aren’t targeted at the back of the head

by kellly on Mar 20, 2011 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let's be real, this isn't tennis or badminton

These are people beating each other up, it can be overly dangerous at times. To label Jones as dirty based on two fights, is a little premature, and daresay biased.

by DrFernando on Mar 20, 2011 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought putting your forearm in the throat would be fine since most chokes consist of that don’t they?

by HaterSlayer on Mar 20, 2011 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s alright, unless you pull back and strike the throat. Fine distinction perhaps, but it is clearly stated as illegal in the rules.

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 20, 2011 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Except he did use some elbows there.

Not out of ill will, I think, but he just did it and had to be cautioned by Herb Dean.

by Unabomberman on Mar 20, 2011 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

dean warns him at about 3:00 of the first round

“don’t put the thumb in the throat”

that’s different than a warning for throat strikes, no?

by kellly on Mar 20, 2011 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

just finished the fight

didn’t see anything overtly dirty. i saw a lot of nasty stuff that would upset me greatly if i were the recipient. that being said, fighting is not my profession.

i wish more fighters were as effective as jones.

by kellly on Mar 20, 2011 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

happened with 30 seconds left in the 2nd round. watching it again he actually lifted his forearm about 3 inches away from the throat before he came back down

by Riley_96 on Mar 21, 2011 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

equally illegal however (thumb on windpipe)

'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'

by rohedron on Mar 21, 2011 8:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Didn't mean to imply you were

Just saying that while reading through the comments on various posts that there are lots of people, or maybe just a vocal minority, that seem to be having some issues accepting the fact that Jon Jones is now the best 205 pound fighter in the world.

by TMadeBurner on Mar 20, 2011 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can accept that

yo no quiero hacer mas nada

by Orcus on Mar 20, 2011 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I want to make this as clear as possible.

Jones was winning that fight. He was going to win and deserved to win for being the better fighter on the night they were put into a cage to fight each other. Jon Jones has earned the belt by beating the last reigning champion and is now the top guy in the weight class in the world.

He still fights dirty, and looks like he does it when he gets frustrated that things don’t go his way quickly enough. Guys at the top of the division last longer and will not go away as quickly as Matyushenko did. I’m not excited to watch dirty, foul laden title fights.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Mar 20, 2011 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think he gets frustrated

He paced himself very well and now that he’s gone that far and stopped someone he can stop the shoddy stuff.

I would totally be all for illegal moves against Rashad, however.

"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles

by SSreporters on Mar 20, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

How can you read the guy's mind?

He has had two fights where instances of illegal moves have happened, IIRC.

by DrFernando on Mar 20, 2011 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

But you're not just talking about it.

I am not a Jones nut hugger by any means- for whatever reason I am not as excited about his fights as I should be. But you’re not just talking about it- you’re making him out to be Cheick Kongo here, and I don’t think he is anything like that.

Those “headbutts” he threw to Shogun’s chest were actually chinbutts. What the hell do you think he is trying to accomplish there? Last time I checked, the chest is a better place to take damage than the chin. I don’t know what his intention was in that, but I don’t think it was malicious.

by Charger567 on Mar 20, 2011 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

whatahell are you talking about? I never talked about his chin strikes, you must be confused.

yo no quiero hacer mas nada

by Orcus on Mar 20, 2011 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Chinbutts

are a head strike whether you like it or not, and I’m sure there’s not a place in the unified rules that contemplates them, and I’m sure that it would be considered illegal if he had used them on Shogun’s face. He’s just treading ona gray area.

by Unabomberman on Mar 20, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes you can cover an opponents mouth

People do it all the time. Using the head as a weapon is illegal no matter where you do it. Then again the unified rules say no heel kicks to the kidney region and it happens all the time. He stopped when told, unlike Schaub who until the 3rd thought the back of Mirko’s head was fair game.

by silent.bisonte33 on Mar 20, 2011 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, the mouth thing is legit as long as you only cover and don't put your fingers in their mouth.

Hendo did it to Anderson a lot too. It looks dirty and is one of those things that just ‘feels’ wrong, but it’s allowed.

13:46-24A.15 Fouls

(a) The following are fouls and will result in penalties if committed:
1. Butting with the head;
2. Eye gouging of any kind;
3. Biting or spitting at an opponent;
4. Hair pulling;
5. Fish hooking;
6. Groin attacks of any kind;
7. Intentionally placing a finger in any opponent’s orifice;
8. Downward pointing of elbow strikes;
9. Small joint manipulation;
10. Strikes to the spine or back of the head;
11. Heel kicks to the kidney;
12. Throat strikes of any kind;
13. Clawing, pinching, twisting the flesh or grabbing the clavicle;
14. Kicking the head of a grounded fighter;
15. Kneeing the head of a grounded fighter;
16. Stomping of a grounded fighter;
17. The use of abusive language in fighting area;
18. Any unsportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to opponent;
19. Attacking an opponent on or during the break;
20. Attacking an opponent who is under the referee’s care at the time;
21. Timidity (avoiding contact, or consistent dropping of mouthpiece, or faking an injury);
22. Interference from a mixed martial artists seconds;
23. Throwing an opponent out of the fighting area;
24. Flagrant disregard of the referee’s instructions;
25. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his or her head or neck.
Emphasis mine. And I don’t believe for a second that Jones doesn’t know these rules. I heard the excuse after the Hamill fight. I didn’t buy it then and sure as shit don’t believe he doesn’t know the rules by now.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Mar 20, 2011 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think covering the mouth of an opponent should be illegal

I only definitively saw the headbutt and the other bold elbow thing must be a reference to the Hamill fight.

Jon Jones vs. Cheick Kongo for his HW debut?

"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles

by SSreporters on Mar 20, 2011 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Downard elbows was Hamill, yeah.

Didn’t see him do that against Shogun. And like I said, he was winning that fight last night fouls or not. I’m not saying he should have been DQ’d or anything like that. Just that he’s a dirty fucking fighter. While he demanded respect as an athlete and competitor regardless of his personality, I don’t think I can even afford him that anymore.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Mar 20, 2011 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

If planting a chin in an opponent;'s solar plexus is a headbutt,

Then yeah, he headbutted. But he landed chin-first on the chest. An old wrestling trick…

"Don't be intimidated by other teams. You guys got bubble gum cards, too. Let's go." - Buck Showalter

by duck on Mar 20, 2011 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

My mouth has been covered in the ring… it’s whatever, you know they are going to try it, I use it as a chance to isolate the arm and go for the armbar.

"I’m anti-stalling, not anti-wrestling." - lowellthehammer

by JaeeJaee on Mar 21, 2011 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

never

and if he did, i’d like to see a GIF. I’ve watched the fight 4 times now.

by silent.bisonte33 on Mar 20, 2011 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know how good your computer is

But any chance you can screencap points in the fight?

"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles

by SSreporters on Mar 20, 2011 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I honestly

think its ignorance. I dont think jones knows the rules…
and him just simply placing his elbow on the throat of Rua, or back onto it. Probably is considered a strike to us.. but just a simple.. placement to him.

by DevirginatoR on Mar 20, 2011 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

i didnt think those throat elbows were hard

it just seemed like he would go to shift postition and when rua moved he put his forearm back down. not like the 12-6’s he smashed hamill with.

by silent.bisonte33 on Mar 20, 2011 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

he wasn't placing the elbows

he was striking with them

yo no quiero hacer mas nada

by Orcus on Mar 20, 2011 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I always thought those kinds of strikes were illegal, but Dean cautioned him instead of taking a point away.

by Unabomberman on Mar 20, 2011 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah

but groin strikes can get warnings at first instead of point reductions as well

yo no quiero hacer mas nada

by Orcus on Mar 20, 2011 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

He headbutted Maty repeatedly as well

Is he practicing this shit?

The malicious and downright callous nature of Jones’ style is probably the most damning(for his opponents) part of his game.

He seemed to want to really injury Shogun. If not, he sure as hell didn’t care if he did injure him.

"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."

by TheFilt on Mar 20, 2011 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

He did not headbutt Matyushenko

What did you watch?

"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles

by SSreporters on Mar 20, 2011 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Then it was Bader

But I’m almost positive it was Maty.

He threw his chin(a headbutt) into his sternum and was warned for it.

"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."

by TheFilt on Mar 20, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

You are thinking Bader

And rewatching that he wasn’t headbutting or anything he was lifting up his position and quickly coming back down while going for a choke.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Mar 20, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I see

I looked like he was headbutting the shit out of him with his chin.

He did it last night I was thinking “Not again. You practice this, Jones?”

"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."

by TheFilt on Mar 20, 2011 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought he got warned for a 12-to-6.

"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles

by SSreporters on Mar 20, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Its was the Bader fight

He appeared to ram his chin into his solarplex a few times.

"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."

by TheFilt on Mar 20, 2011 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

He did against Bader as well

Although he was 12-6ing against Bader’s back not his head. But yeah he needs to learn to turn his elbow 15 degrees.

It’s a stupid rule anyway especially on body shots.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Mar 20, 2011 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep

Good memory

"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."

by TheFilt on Mar 20, 2011 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

holyfield was dirty?

i thought tyson was the one doing the ear biting…

by silent.bisonte33 on Mar 20, 2011 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tyson gets vilified for going to such an extreme.

But it’s Holyfield who had a consistent reputation in the boxing community for being a dirty motherfucker.

by Cunny on Mar 20, 2011 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, he did bite a man's ear off

but still point taken.

Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.

by Dave Strummer on Mar 20, 2011 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

he also was putting his thumb in throat, along with the eyes on several occassions, and Dean warned him about it. I noted in the comments section last night during the play by play that Jones was using a lot, of dirty little tricks

"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13

by Noah'sArk on Mar 20, 2011 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

dean warned jones about putting his thumb in the throat

but it looked like it was a caution – jones had shogun in a “rape choke” which is legal in the UFC

by kellly on Mar 20, 2011 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

he was pressing his thumb down on shogun’s trachea. that it is just dirty as hell.

"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13

by Noah'sArk on Mar 20, 2011 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

nope, looked like a "rape choke"

herb dean had the best view in the house and he said “you’re good”

by kellly on Mar 20, 2011 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

i mean we can keep saying these things over and over

but if you watch the fight, you’ll see that these dirty tactics weren’t at all prevalent

by kellly on Mar 20, 2011 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I really didn’t like all the dirty shit from Jones. He doesn’t need it.

"Every time I talk on the phone with someone who doesn’t know me, they call me "ma’am"." - Scott C. Broussard

by Earl Montclair on Mar 20, 2011 5:51 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

Agree with both you and PDL

But I am only giving him the rec, because he was first in line.

BOOSH

by Farthammer on Mar 20, 2011 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

That is fair. I knew I should have skipped reading the actual article and just started into mindless bitching just because of Jonathan Snowden’s name being on this.

"Every time I talk on the phone with someone who doesn’t know me, they call me "ma’am"." - Scott C. Broussard

by Earl Montclair on Mar 20, 2011 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here you go. A rec, just for you.

"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."

by TheFilt on Mar 20, 2011 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jones throws a leg kick, that Shogun checks, but it’s worth remarking that Rua hasn’t thrown a single kick at Jones’s skinny legs. It was supposed to be a huge advantage for him, but it’s a weapon he’s left in the holster.

I was shouting the whole time “Where’s the leg kicks?” The whole fight was a blur, I wish I DVR’d the PPV. It felt almost exactly the same as the Fedor loss. Where the hell was the game plan?

by memitim on Mar 20, 2011 6:01 PM EDT reply actions  

leg kicks

open shogun up for what jones ended up doing anyway, taking him down

by silent.bisonte33 on Mar 20, 2011 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Counter to leg kick

If you’re kicking.. but Jones can extend his arm and punch you before your kick may even reach/get to him.. theres a big problem there..

by DevirginatoR on Mar 20, 2011 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, but it seemed to me like Rua barely watched any video on Jones. With Machida he had him timed, especially in the second fight, perfectly. Jones is so sloppy that I thought for certain he would come in with a winning game plan and timing for Jones’ advances. It just never happened.

by memitim on Mar 20, 2011 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have to say that Rua’s jits looked as bad as it has. Part of that is Jones imposing his will, part of that is Rua not being sharp in his technique.

by memitim on Mar 20, 2011 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Your answer
At 2:40 remaining in round two he throws his first leg kick. Jones catches it and puts him on his back.

It could be 4:59 left in the 1st round or any other time, Shogun was going to get planted if he tried kicks. You don’t kick the best wrestler in the division.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Mar 20, 2011 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Like I said, Jones is so sloppy, his advances, tho quick, leave gaping holes for properly timed leg kicks.

by memitim on Mar 20, 2011 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

He did? When did he say that? I didn’t hear him say that? No, he just had no timing.

by memitim on Mar 20, 2011 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think shogun was not near the shape he was in for the machida fight either. I think he was in pretty good shape dont getme wrong but not in the shape that he was in during his title fights with lyoto

by Riley_96 on Mar 21, 2011 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

He didn’t get beat to hell by Machida right off the opening bell. That’s the difference.

by chimps on Mar 21, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

still don’t think he was in the same shape. he was sucking wind while on the ground in the first round before the soccer kick to the mug.

by Riley_96 on Mar 21, 2011 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shogun has no timing?

Lol… man his timing looked pretty damn good against Machida.

by chimps on Mar 21, 2011 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you read what I said previously that was my point. He had Machida timed perfectly. It seemed to me he did barely any tape work on Jones.

by memitim on Mar 21, 2011 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think you get timing down by watching tape. Sure it can be somewhat helpful, but you have to physically get it in your body, and that takes actual practice against that guy. I am sure Shogun had Machida’s timing down better in the second fight due to that fact.

My point is, his timing looked like shit because he was outclassed and beat up. I like Shogun, but that is what happenned saturday night.

Faber has good timing and great reflexes, but against Aldo, he couldn’t get off and Aldo constantly beat him to the punch/kick. Why is that? He got outclassed- not a lack of conditioning or some injury.

by chimps on Mar 22, 2011 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Machida and Shogun both did extensive tape study on one-another – Shogun surprisingly (to me) even talked about some of Machida’s tendencies 2-3 weeks before the fight. Guess he figured they were too instinctive and ingrained to change on short notice.

Part of the problem in trying to use tape study to break down Jones’ techniques, tells, responses to various attacks, preferences and so forth is that thus far he has rarely used the same sequence or combination as best I can recall, even within the same fight – he is more like a musical prodigy improvising jazz in the cage than anything else.

"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne

by The American Ronin on Mar 22, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

MIke Tyson said it best

EVERYONE has a plan until they get hit in the mouth.

"Don't be intimidated by other teams. You guys got bubble gum cards, too. Let's go." - Buck Showalter

by duck on Mar 20, 2011 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shogun usually brings the same type of brutality that Jones did last night...

I have no problem with the super aggressive behavior from Jones, he was prepared to bang it out with a man we have known to absolutely maul people in the past. Jones pretty much stopped doing anything beyond the line of the rules when Dean warned him, and I think he was going back to it in the heat of the moment.

The one thing I’ve always had a problem is the downward leg strike direct to knee that both Jones and Anderson Silva employ often. I think that has the probability of ending a fight due to serious knee injury, which no one wants, and doesn’t due much damage to the opponent (until you cross that threshold into injury) compared to other optional leg strikes and kicks. I’d rather have downed knees and kicks resulting in a quick KO or stoppage, than a possible long-term and debilitating injury stoppage. Never liked seeing that from Anderson, and I don’t like to see it from Jones either.

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by SteveevaD on Mar 20, 2011 6:06 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Im with ya dood

When they leg kick the front of the knees man.. cmon.. i mean when you’re on your back.. nothing too serious can happen.. but standing.. thanks anderson for doin that shiet. It just looks bad.. the knee bends back all funny and gross… just hurts to watch.

by DevirginatoR on Mar 20, 2011 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

The issue is that it is not outlawed, and so tall people do that shit because they can. Jones is just using his assets.

by Unabomberman on Mar 20, 2011 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is fighting right?

There is nothing wrong with a technique that is designed to injure provided its legal i.e. a grazing elbow meant to cut.

I wouldn’t object to that move being made illegal though.

by SES 84 on Mar 20, 2011 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jones used that to control distance more than anything

On multiple occasions it prevented Shogun from closing the distance and he consequently came up short.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Mar 20, 2011 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t like kneebars either, but they’re part of the sport.

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 20, 2011 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

If kneebars were outlawed

Palhares could be in jail for assault

"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles

by SSreporters on Mar 20, 2011 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I feel a little sick every time he gets a hold of someone. I’d rather get kicked in the knee than have Mr. Harris trying to rip my leg in two.

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 20, 2011 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Silly

It calls much more our attention b/c given how Jones expresses himself it sticks out like a sore thumb. He’s all for values and stuff but in the cage he takes certain actions that are questionable. That’s all. And I think that’s a fair point.

To mischaracterize people’s objections as some petty PRIDE let down is, again, just silly.

Jon Jones is the champ, good for him, but he should avoid that stuff in the future, as should anyone else.

by Unabomberman on Mar 20, 2011 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

What does it have to do with how he sounds outside the cage?

That implies that somehow in the middle of the fight he is planning to hurt his opponene via illegal rules… and that implies we can read his intent, whether we mean to or not.

by DrFernando on Mar 20, 2011 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Again, you all neglect that shogun tapped out.

by JayW on Mar 20, 2011 6:07 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Does it matter?

GSP tapped out to Serra.

"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles

by SSreporters on Mar 20, 2011 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

it’s quitting, it’s giving up. That’s why GSP got shit for tapping do to strikes. Reason why Chuck has no respect for those that tap to strikes (Tito). This was worst than Forrest Griffin throwing up his hands against Silva.

by JayW on Mar 20, 2011 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s okay, just like machida, evans and rampage shogun will never be champion again.

by JayW on Mar 20, 2011 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think you are going way too far. Dean was calling it but Jones was still showering blows. To me, it looked like he was trying to indicate that it was over. It came after Dean called it.

by memitim on Mar 20, 2011 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shogun wasn't fully aware the fight was ending

Hence, why he was tapping, he was showing he was done whether the ref decided so or not.

Implying that Rua knew the fight ended, but then decided to tap makes no sense.

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by Chris Groves on Mar 20, 2011 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Read between the lines

Why would a fighter tap if he knew the fight was over.

"-i never said half the things i said." --Yogi Berra

by Ovale Fan on Mar 20, 2011 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not reading anything, all I said was he tapped after the fight was over.

It’s really disconcerting to watch that, those taps were pleas…pleas to end the fight. I don’t blame him an iota.

I’m not implying, but there sure is a lot if inferring going on around here.

by Body Triangle on Mar 20, 2011 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kid is hella talented but he’s too fucking wild and a bit of a spaz. Shades of the Hammil fight with the illegal elbows. I swear that I saw him poke Shogun in the eye when he was trying to cover his mOuth. Plus the throat grabbing. And I know it’s not illegal but those front kicks to the knee just seem cheap to me. That’s a move I think should be outlawed in the Unified Rules. The kid is a beast though and part of what makes him so fun to watch is his wikdness

by mthom on Mar 20, 2011 6:08 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

wildness

by mthom on Mar 20, 2011 6:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

He’s just 23, after all. As for thos crazy knee kicks, well, Anderson does it too, right? And then there are foot stomps, holding folk down, etc., those knees are the least of people’s problems.

by Unabomberman on Mar 20, 2011 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fighting mean but legal is ok.

If I were fighting Kimbo I’d attack that bad knee with the quickness using every legal strike I knew. And I’d go for heel hooks and kneebars first thing when the fight hit thr ground. If they don’t work, it gets in their head. Mean but clean is a good motto for any sort of combat sport.

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by pdl on Mar 20, 2011 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

No he would not. Every time i see those kicks i think they are dirty no matter who throws them. Wanderlei is one of my favorite fighters and i would shit all over him too if he done it.

by Riley_96 on Mar 21, 2011 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

So you have no problem with stomps and soccer kicks

But kicks to the knee aren’t good? Are you serious?

This might seem like a straw man but Wanderlei is one of your favorite fighters and this was allowed in PRIDE.

"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles

by SSreporters on Mar 21, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

stomps i dislike, i use to see them in pride and they made me cringe. The kicks and knees to a downed fighter are something that i am on the fence about. They are brutal, but i believe they have their place due to the fingers touching the ground to dodge getting hit and also i believe the knees have a place in stopping lazy wrestlers from taking shits and just laying head first holding onto a leg. stomps are ugly and can cause some serious damage thus should be kept out of the sport

by Riley_96 on Mar 21, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

i am starting to feel kinda bad

i watched those kicks to the knees and thought to myself that it was both beautiful an genius.

"There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. ~James Morrow
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by F'n Clownshoes on Mar 20, 2011 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

other than

other than herb deans shoes looking like they were found in the throwaway pile of the goodwill…. I would say the crowning moment was the near simultaneous tapping by Rua and ref stoppage… INSANE.. I just spoke with M! and fedor is dropping to 185

by spidathon on Mar 20, 2011 6:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Great breakdown. The guy is just amazing. There’s so much to cover in 13 minutes of fighting. If he’d run off the cage and kicked Shogun in the head, it would’ve been lost in the shuffle.

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 20, 2011 6:23 PM EDT reply actions  

Wow

I think I just got to the first comment that what just about how good Jones was, which you know is actually the story of the fight and not a few moves at the edge of the rules.

by SES 84 on Mar 20, 2011 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, the debate got pretty side-tracked. I think there’s a couple things Jon needs to be careful about, but that about 1% of what I remember from the fight. The rest was just holy shit, I can’t believe it’s better than I imagined he even could be eventually. I thought Shogun would get mauled in the clinch and on the ground, but I still thought he’d be able to bait Jon a bit, land some hard kicks, and keep Jon worrying and stressed, and then possibly take over and land a big punch later in the fight. He didn’t even come close. I also thought he’d be able to get up a little more quickly in the first round at least. Just ownership in every way. Jon is the man.

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 20, 2011 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yup

I sort of always thought that some of Jone’s liabilities on the ground were sort of made up. Yes he left an arm out against Vera, but I think Jone’s knows his athleticism lets him do stuff that other people can’t.

Jones is just a phenom when it comes to takedowns, passing guard and GnP.

For me I was amazed with Jone’s striking. He just seemed the better fundamental striker really using his reach, which we hadn’t really seen in prior fights.

by SES 84 on Mar 20, 2011 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I just kept telling people criticizing his striking that while he’s not fundamentally perfect, we also haven’t really seen him in a standup fight for almost two years. His jab has continued to look sharper, in the Hamill fight for example, but there still wasn’t much to look at. Props to Shogun for at least drawing out the full of arsenal of Jon’s offensive power. Little things he’s been doing for a while, that quick upkick, the spinning elbow and flying knee, just all looked much sharper, more accurate, and most importantly, integrated into a comprehensive striking attack that mixes those techniques in with bread and butter stuff like leg kicks, jab, and straight punches. I definitely didn’t expect him to look THAT good though, especially against Shogun.

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 20, 2011 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

You forgot the part where Shogun tapped on the mat twice a half a second after Herb Dean stopped the fight.

by Keren on Mar 20, 2011 6:27 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah

This whole not tapping thing is stupid. I don’t want a guy dying in the cage because a ref is slow to stop the fight. We also don’t need to see guys arms snapping (and then fans criticizing Aoki) because Hirota failed to tap. If you know you have no way out tap. Leave the Just Bleed Stuff at home.

by SES 84 on Mar 20, 2011 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I never said it was bad that Shogun tapped. I was shocked when I saw it happen. Shogun is tough and we all know he can take a hit, but Jones was just too much for him. I can’t imagine how strong Jones must be if Shogun technically tapped to strikes. Crazy.

by Keren on Mar 21, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

The grappling aspects of this fight looked like me taking on my girlfriend

Rua could provide some resistance but ultimately everything was in Jones control. He didn’t have any real trouble doing what he wanted to do

by 1N87 on Mar 20, 2011 6:27 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Jeez...

You grapple your girlfriend into submission? You could, you know, just talk her into it…

by Unabomberman on Mar 20, 2011 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seriously, what am I buying flowers and being thoughtful for!

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 20, 2011 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I cannot endorse this:)

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 20, 2011 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s stupid fun. Noone should.

Unless…this was trying to beat your skinny ass.

Then I think we can all agree that if you can’t pull flight, you have to fight.

by Unabomberman on Mar 20, 2011 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

You’ve gone way too far:) WTF is that?

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 20, 2011 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dunno...a bodybuilder?

I’m a bad maaan…disregard anything I said previously guys, don’t hit chicks. Ever.

by Unabomberman on Mar 20, 2011 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yikes, it's hideous!!!

Also for the record I don’t grapple w/my gf. I was merely using it as an analogy for how much resistance shogun was able to provide against Jones will

by 1N87 on Mar 20, 2011 9:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I grapple his gf

by hexbreaker on Mar 21, 2011 8:05 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

We’re joking, of course.

‘Cause we’re most likely a bunch of pussies that couldn’t get it done anyway if we tried…

by Unabomberman on Mar 20, 2011 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for this Snowden

Very cool breakdown- would it be out of line to request this be done for all Shogun and Jones fights down the line? These guys are wild, and a lot gets missed in the fracas.

Very interesting.

by Body Triangle on Mar 20, 2011 6:28 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

great point body triangle

these two are essentially the wildmen of mma, now that rampage plays a bit conservative

by toodiesel on Mar 20, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can we add Jose Aldo’s fights to that list?

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 20, 2011 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I find it quite interesting that the backlash against Jones is still continuing...

I wonder if a part of it is how easy he made it look. I think all the Shogun fanboys would go a little easier on Jones if the fight hadn’t been such a massacre?

by DrFernando on Mar 20, 2011 6:30 PM EDT reply actions  

No I don't think so

The pre-fight hate has only gotten worse. Crazy. Oh well, here’s to enjoying both fighters future fights.

by silent.bisonte33 on Mar 20, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am disappointed my predicted Bannedegeddon 2011

Of anti-Jones people has not taken off. In fact it’s more likely SheepleBuster goes before any of the Jones bashers.

"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles

by SSreporters on Mar 20, 2011 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

It has been amateur hour around here recently. I was expecting a great threshing of the wheat from the banhammer.

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 20, 2011 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

If Jones knocked Shogun out in 20 seconds

There’d be reasons to pick his performance apart.

I think this was the best possible way for Jones to win the fight, by beating him in all aspects of MMA.

"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles

by SSreporters on Mar 20, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I said this last night, he pretty much backed up everything he said he was going to do

Like any mortal, he can and likely will be beat, but right now he is still on his way up to the peak, which is a very scary thought.

by DrFernando on Mar 20, 2011 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes it is.

He is 23 years old. Physically he is about to be at his peak. However mentally when he is around 27 he will be a very very dangerous opponent.

Jules: Normally, both your asses would be dead as fucking fried chicken, but you happen to pull this shit while I'm in a transitional period so I don't wanna kill you, I wanna help you. But I can't give you this case, it don't belong to me. Besides, I've already been through too much shit this morning over this case to hand it over to your dumb ass.

by RJshock 305 on Mar 20, 2011 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's got a good 5 years before his physical peak

Wrestlers are in there prime between 28-35.

"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."

by TheFilt on Mar 20, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

WHAT!? Had no idea it was 28-35!

Guess he will be his best at HW then.

Jules: Normally, both your asses would be dead as fucking fried chicken, but you happen to pull this shit while I'm in a transitional period so I don't wanna kill you, I wanna help you. But I can't give you this case, it don't belong to me. Besides, I've already been through too much shit this morning over this case to hand it over to your dumb ass.

by RJshock 305 on Mar 20, 2011 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I should say

Wrestlers’ bodies fully mature between 28-35.

A lot of guys dominate at the very pinnacle of the sport at 30+.

"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."

by TheFilt on Mar 20, 2011 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Generally because the technical and mental maturity peaks

while still retaining physical tools for the most part, barring injuries.

by DrFernando on Mar 20, 2011 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

very nice breakdown

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http://mazznettt.blogspot.com/

by MaZZacare on Mar 20, 2011 6:41 PM EDT reply actions  

So Jones targeting Shoguns knees is somehow "ugly" or vicious

yet before the fight and during everyone wants Shogun to take out his chicken legs.

Knowing the struggles Rua has faced with multiple surgeries, this is brutal and ugly stuff from a determined and vicious fighter.

Well I know what you’re insinuating.

Jones did some sketchy stuff during the fight, but this was absolutely the least offensive. Had Rua chopped Jon’s leg out into the first row no one would claim it was “ugly stuff”. If I know my opponent has a weakness wtf wouldn’t you exploit it?

by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Mar 20, 2011 6:43 PM EDT reply actions  

Kicking leg is not the same

as attacking an injured joint. Which is technically illegal.

"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."

by TheFilt on Mar 20, 2011 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

jones is not the first

or the last to attack a leg this way. it was a perfect gameplan.

by silent.bisonte33 on Mar 20, 2011 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not at all

I applaud his ruthlessness

"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."

by TheFilt on Mar 20, 2011 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

attacking an injured joint is in no way illegal (unless that joint is a finger or toe, and in that case it being injured has no bearing on the situation).

by Phildo on Mar 20, 2011 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

from what I understand it's legal

though it does make me cringe everytime I see someone do it, Anderson likes to do it a lot as well.

yo no quiero hacer mas nada

by Orcus on Mar 20, 2011 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Its barely legal

You can’t directly strike a joint, but you can push kick a leg.

Its low risk and effective. Its also good way to warn someone that you aren’t playing and they need to stay back.

"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."

by TheFilt on Mar 20, 2011 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

where did you come up with this rule?

by Phildo on Mar 20, 2011 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

It was discussed by the ABC after the Leites-Silva fight. They decided it should remain a legal technique.

by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 20, 2011 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know, I’m wondering why he is saying that attacking joints is illegal. The only time the word joint is mentioned in the rules is banning small joint manipulation.

by Phildo on Mar 20, 2011 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I heard Kris McCray explain it that way

He wanted to know if the push kicks he received were legal and that’s how it was explained to him.

"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."

by TheFilt on Mar 20, 2011 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

that’s obviously not the correct interpretation of the rules because these kicks and other strikes aimed at joints happen, and because it isn’t written in the rules anywhere. Maybe he fought in a smaller show somewhere that banned them, but there is nothing in the unified rules that says strikes to the joints are banned.

by Phildo on Mar 20, 2011 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

No

That’s not what he said.

After one of the TUF fights he questioned the legality of the push kick and that’s how he said it was explained to him by the ref or some official.

You may be right, but it really doesn’t matter.

"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."

by TheFilt on Mar 20, 2011 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rua wanting to break his chicken legs is no less vicious, methinks. That’s just how the sport is.

by Unabomberman on Mar 20, 2011 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I agree a hundred percent.

Shogun leg kicking Bones skinny legs till they broke would have just as brutal. Jones was throwing the strikes to the knee mainly to get Shogun to hesitate coming forward, and it worked beautifully.

Jules: Normally, both your asses would be dead as fucking fried chicken, but you happen to pull this shit while I'm in a transitional period so I don't wanna kill you, I wanna help you. But I can't give you this case, it don't belong to me. Besides, I've already been through too much shit this morning over this case to hand it over to your dumb ass.

by RJshock 305 on Mar 20, 2011 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

They should talk to Faber’s knee after the Aldo fight and see what it had to say. See if it thought those low kicks were “ugly” or “vicious”.

by FightFan72 on Mar 21, 2011 4:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

I can't believe

All of these people on here crying for rule changes, because Jones was ‘too rough’ with Shogun Rua (of all people) for them. The same Shogun who delighted them while soccer kicking people in the face.

Sports is human life in microcosm. ~Howard Cosell
The more you sweat in practice, the less you bleed in battle. ~Author Unknown
The breakfast of champions is not cereal, it's the opposition. ~Nick Seitz

by warren305 on Mar 20, 2011 6:46 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I was thinking the same

What is shoguns record since making soccer kicks illegal?

by silent.bisonte33 on Mar 20, 2011 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

3-3 I think.

Jules: Normally, both your asses would be dead as fucking fried chicken, but you happen to pull this shit while I'm in a transitional period so I don't wanna kill you, I wanna help you. But I can't give you this case, it don't belong to me. Besides, I've already been through too much shit this morning over this case to hand it over to your dumb ass.

by RJshock 305 on Mar 20, 2011 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

yea.

not that i was belittling him at all, but i was more or less agreeing that the dude built a rep with some vicious attacks.

by silent.bisonte33 on Mar 20, 2011 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ya he did.

He only has five TKO by stomps of soccer kicks, but when ever had the chance he used those strikes to inflict major damage and brutal damage.

Jules: Normally, both your asses would be dead as fucking fried chicken, but you happen to pull this shit while I'm in a transitional period so I don't wanna kill you, I wanna help you. But I can't give you this case, it don't belong to me. Besides, I've already been through too much shit this morning over this case to hand it over to your dumb ass.

by RJshock 305 on Mar 20, 2011 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

You clearly didn't see the rules posted above and just wanna troll.

He did what he did, and he’d have won either way. Hell, even Herb Dean warned the guy against the throat strikes.

by Unabomberman on Mar 20, 2011 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah well people talking about downward leg kicks

And putting the hand over the face being too much for them and changing those rules only because Jones can do it so effectively is actually a good comparison. Its ridiculous to change rules because one person is really good at it

Sports is human life in microcosm. ~Howard Cosell
The more you sweat in practice, the less you bleed in battle. ~Author Unknown
The breakfast of champions is not cereal, it's the opposition. ~Nick Seitz

by warren305 on Mar 20, 2011 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nobody wants to change anything.

The rules are the rules as they are written. In PRIDE you could headstomp, ok, but now you can’t? Along with those you can’ts [sic] is throat hits and headbutts.

by Unabomberman on Mar 20, 2011 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I understand the rules from Pride

I also understand the rules of the UFC. Thirdly I can also read,

“And I know it’s not illegal but those front kicks to the knee just seem cheap to me. That’s a move I think should be outlawed in the Unified Rules”

And others I don’t care to site. Thanks

Sports is human life in microcosm. ~Howard Cosell
The more you sweat in practice, the less you bleed in battle. ~Author Unknown
The breakfast of champions is not cereal, it's the opposition. ~Nick Seitz

by warren305 on Mar 20, 2011 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dont forget STOMPS!

Jules: Normally, both your asses would be dead as fucking fried chicken, but you happen to pull this shit while I'm in a transitional period so I don't wanna kill you, I wanna help you. But I can't give you this case, it don't belong to me. Besides, I've already been through too much shit this morning over this case to hand it over to your dumb ass.

by RJshock 305 on Mar 20, 2011 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

This.

And since when did it become so damn easy to hold a strong man down without catching his neck or face from time to time. It happens in every fight — but wait JJ did it so let’s point it out.

Not a perfect fighter, but nothing new here whatsoever.

by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Mar 20, 2011 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have to say, I find Jones's character pretty impressive

completely apart from his fighting ability. Sure he can sound a bit preachy or self righteous at times. However, considering how superior he actually is to the competition, I think he actually handles himself with great class. He is very articulate for a 23 year old, and you can tell he is a thoughtful and intelligent guy. It would be so easy for him to be acting like a “gangsta” already.

by DrFernando on Mar 20, 2011 6:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Rampage and Rashad

would completely agree. Dude carries himself very well.

by silent.bisonte33 on Mar 20, 2011 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with this completely. Go talk to guys coming into the NLF, or in hockey, baseball or basketball. Jon seems like a really nice, intelligent, soulful guy, who just speaks with too much grandiosity. He’s 23 and his life has undergone radical transformation in the past few years, to fatherhood, fighter, and now champion with a lot of eyes on him. He’s doing great. He’s entitled to some swagger, it is just talk after all.

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 20, 2011 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wish the NLF could get their act together on the CBA.

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 20, 2011 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

All the people that have a problem with him being “fake”. Shit, put yourself in his shoes and see how you’d act. He’s 23 years old and fast-tracked himself to a title shot. People are telling you you’re the greatest thing since sliced bread and that you could potentially be the greatest mixed martial artist anyone has seen thus far. People are following you all over the place and singing your praises. You’re face is plastered on a huge billboard in Times Square. People are calling you the champ and you haven’t even fought for the belt yet. With all that going on, this kid should be a fucking monster and fucking complete asshole. You know what, this kid has got his head screwed on incredibly straight. He’s quite the opposite of fake. “He acts that way on camera but when they’re off, he’s an arrogant asshole”. Haha! What do you think the majority of fighters act like when the camera’s not on. You think they say nice things about their opponents when they’re trainging? FUCK NO! They’re probably saying the worse things possible about them to all their training partners. That’s just how it goes. All the things people are saying that are bad about him (cocky, arrogant, self righteous), if anything, are completely minute offenses in the world of MMA. This kid is a fucking choir boy compared to Chael Sonnen or any number of guys in MMA. People need to cut this kid some slack. He’s pretty fucking grounded for 23 and all the accomplishments he’s had so far. Success Breeds Contempt aka Haters Gonna Hate.

by FightFan72 on Mar 21, 2011 5:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah he’s not perfect, and some criticism in probably a good thing for him, but much of this is just hate. The guy’s on top of the world, he ran through Shogun, who is beloved, and people are bitter about it.

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 21, 2011 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Disclaimer: I got nothing against gangstas per se...

Except that is the typical streotype for the young African-American rich successful athlete. JJ has clearly chosen to go another route at this point in his career, and it’s interesting that he is catching so much backlash for it.

by DrFernando on Mar 20, 2011 6:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Can this be a new feature for all title fights or something? I read the shit out of it.

by PistonHyundai on Mar 20, 2011 6:59 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Top Notch Article

I agree that every title fight needs this.

by silent.bisonte33 on Mar 20, 2011 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

ON an unrelated note where the F#$K is the post fight conference and why isn't it up?

For all the UFC’s talk about marketing and new efforts, how did they manage to drop the ball on something so basic?

by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Mar 20, 2011 7:06 PM EDT reply actions  

Enjoyed this

Good job, Snowden.

"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."

by TheFilt on Mar 20, 2011 7:11 PM EDT reply actions  

rec'd for knowledge.

Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.

by Dave Strummer on Mar 20, 2011 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

great analysis, but

its not an inside trip. inside trips come from inside the leg, between the legs.

Legalize MMA in New York.
Legalize marijuana nationwide.

by bcpjkell on Mar 20, 2011 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Then I'm not sure what the hell it is

but it was pretty cool. Stepping with the outside leg to block the opponent’s near leg for the trip is a ….what?

"Don't be intimidated by other teams. You guys got bubble gum cards, too. Let's go." - Buck Showalter

by duck on Mar 21, 2011 6:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

not sure if there’s an actual name haha. its just a knee block really,

Legalize MMA in New York.
Legalize marijuana nationwide.

by bcpjkell on Mar 22, 2011 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Funny part is....

It’s not THAT different….

"Don't be intimidated by other teams. You guys got bubble gum cards, too. Let's go." - Buck Showalter

by duck on Mar 21, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Snowden delivers

Hope to see this great photo and textual analysis after more fights, though obviously it’s a boat load of work so should be reserved for elite event fights.

█♣█
A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who -- Jay-Z

by thetakeover on Mar 20, 2011 7:18 PM EDT reply actions  

And no mention of Rua tapping at the end either

But all of the little ‘cheats’ Jones supposedly did on purpose were all worth mentioning.

Alistair Overeem - StrikeForce Heavyweight Champion, K-1 2010 World Grand Prix Champion, DREAM Heavyweight Champion
June 18th, 2011:
Fabricio Werdoomsday
Game Overeem

by Chris Groves on Mar 20, 2011 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't forget

Those vicious/brutal knee strikes to poor poor Rua.

And to think

Herb Dean ask for just two things -to follow the rules and protect themselves at all times. Seems fair enough.

by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Mar 20, 2011 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rua didn't listen

to the second part of Herbs request. We should all be basking in the potential of this kid, not implying he was cheating.

by silent.bisonte33 on Mar 20, 2011 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

No one is implying anything. There were times he was clearly cheating. For the most part, Herb Dean was right on point to prevent it going further.

by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 20, 2011 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

He did break some rules

And stopped when told or was warned. I wouldn’t call that cheating. Unrelated, i got your book for my birthday and love it.

by silent.bisonte33 on Mar 20, 2011 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I rarely see a fight

where people are not told to let go of the shorts, let go of the cage, etc. Hell Urijah kept control of Eddie last night during the scramble by death gripping the dudes shorts.

by silent.bisonte33 on Mar 20, 2011 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

to be more clear

cheating is greasing, or putting plaster in your gloves. Thats also breaking the rules. But you can break the rules and not be cheating.

by silent.bisonte33 on Mar 20, 2011 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

those were legal

And honestly, none of them looked like a lot of force was behind them…seemed more like a distance-keeper to me.

Alistair Overeem - StrikeForce Heavyweight Champion, K-1 2010 World Grand Prix Champion, DREAM Heavyweight Champion
June 18th, 2011:
Fabricio Werdoomsday
Game Overeem

by Chris Groves on Mar 20, 2011 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rua tapping has been mentioned plenty by us, what else do you want?

by Unabomberman on Mar 20, 2011 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

As one of the biggest Jones fans on BE

I fail to see how this is relevant. Rua was beaten, beaten badly, to the point the ref had to stop it, and the win is recorded as a TKO, yes? The fact that Rua tapped at the same time Herb Dean stopped the onslught is supposed to make the victory even more meaningful? How?

"Don't be intimidated by other teams. You guys got bubble gum cards, too. Let's go." - Buck Showalter

by duck on Mar 20, 2011 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was just in amazement...

given how tough Shogun is. I have a great deal of respect especially for him, and to see him give up, just told me how badly hurt he was. I thought he might have a broken jaw from one of the elbows.

by DrFernando on Mar 20, 2011 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah.

It was definitively hard to watch, but what i think finally did him in was the last liver shot. Imagine feeling like you just got in the cage with an angry tiger that you were just prodding a few moments ago, and then, all of a sudden, BAM!, and you feel your legs go out under you. I guess at that point it was fair to say “Okay, I think I’m done.”

by Unabomberman on Mar 20, 2011 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've never been a guy to hate on someone for tapping to strikes

Ever.

But my point is I know a lot of the Shogun fanboys ARE the type that, had Jones tapped to strikes, would want it broadcasted on national television and announced the world.

They would be saying Jones bitched out, had not heart, can’t take pressure, etc etc.

I’m not saying any of those things about Shogun…but to not recognize or acknowledge that the beating was so bad that one of the best LHWs ever tapped to the punishment, just because people think it’ll ‘make him look weak’ is ridiculous.

Alistair Overeem - StrikeForce Heavyweight Champion, K-1 2010 World Grand Prix Champion, DREAM Heavyweight Champion
June 18th, 2011:
Fabricio Werdoomsday
Game Overeem

by Chris Groves on Mar 20, 2011 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

To me it’s only meaningful to mention because the man who makes a warrior like Shogun Rua tap from the beating, can accomplish anything. No disrespect to Shogun at all, the fact that it was Shogun is just unbelievably impressive.

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 20, 2011 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

So when I break the fight down minute by minute, move by move, painstakingly, at the expense of my own sanity – I’m supposed to ignore the ones that are potentially illegal? The “claw” and the throat shots were clearly illegal. It’s worth mentioning. Throwing an open hand out like Jones did has repeatedly led to eye pokes in MMA history. Worth mentioning I think. The kicks to the knee joint are mean as shit – worth noting when you think about Jones going forward. He’s a guy that is likely to do whatever it takes to win.

Not really sure what your complaint is here. It also seemed to me that Dean was stopping the fight before a tap. It’s largely irrelevant to the things I was trying to learn from watching back the fight like this.

by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 20, 2011 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Preach it Snowden

You ain’t wrong.

"Don't be intimidated by other teams. You guys got bubble gum cards, too. Let's go." - Buck Showalter

by duck on Mar 20, 2011 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I mean, I’m not making value judgments. As a fight fan I’m much more likely to pick Jones in a fight knowing these things about him….

by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 20, 2011 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe...

You should’ve posted what constitutes fouls in mixed martial arts along with the piece? Someone’s already done it in the comments but it becomes way too clogged and some just miss it.

by Unabomberman on Mar 20, 2011 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

If he broke the rules, he broke the rules

I love the guy as a fighter, but he does an awful lot of borderline stuff and stuff that’s not borderline that simply not called for a penalty. There’s no point in pretending he doesn’t.

And those kicks were brilliant strategy, if not the nicest choice in the world.

"Don't be intimidated by other teams. You guys got bubble gum cards, too. Let's go." - Buck Showalter

by duck on Mar 20, 2011 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

LOL I'm usually a guy who likes to make sneaky, subtle arguments...

but

I mean, I’m not making value judgments. As a fight fan I’m much more likely to pick Jones in a fight knowing these things about him….

I swear i’ve heard this on Fox news at some point.

by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Mar 20, 2011 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

hell i would rather watch jon jones knowing these things about him

am i the only one that thinks targeting a recently operated-on knee is ruthlessly awesome?

why do we watch this sport?

by kellly on Mar 20, 2011 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hopefully not to see people permanently injured by cheap moves?

by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 20, 2011 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

You mean

Hopefully not to see people permanently injured by cheap legal moves?

Which happens ALL the time, concussion, broken hands, etc etc

legal moves causing damage is the name of the game.

Alistair Overeem - StrikeForce Heavyweight Champion, K-1 2010 World Grand Prix Champion, DREAM Heavyweight Champion
June 18th, 2011:
Fabricio Werdoomsday
Game Overeem

by Chris Groves on Mar 20, 2011 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

It honestly bothers me

How much people are actively discrediting that win.

Sports is human life in microcosm. ~Howard Cosell
The more you sweat in practice, the less you bleed in battle. ~Author Unknown
The breakfast of champions is not cereal, it's the opposition. ~Nick Seitz

by warren305 on Mar 20, 2011 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

No one is discrediting the win. I broke down in detail what happened in the match. Whether you feel that discredits the win, that’s a judgment you can make for yourself.

by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 20, 2011 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not to keep going over sematics

But to call someone’s fight ‘cheap’ or ‘dirty’, is discrediting. Wheather you say the word ‘discredit’ or not. Its kinda like starting a sentence with ‘Not to be rude…’

Sports is human life in microcosm. ~Howard Cosell
The more you sweat in practice, the less you bleed in battle. ~Author Unknown
The breakfast of champions is not cereal, it's the opposition. ~Nick Seitz

by warren305 on Mar 20, 2011 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t know what you want here. We are supposed to not mention these things in a detailed breakdown because they make you feel bad?

by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 20, 2011 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

obv

there is a difference between providing a breakdown and proclaiming someone a dirty fighter

by kellly on Mar 20, 2011 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Unbelievable. All the effort put into this and that’s what you took away?

by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 20, 2011 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

don't listen to

unthinkers from the planet ‘Proclamations abound’

There have been many comments in appreciation of your breakdown and you are right to point out moves that on more than one occasion call the referree to make a command of cessation.

It is a part of the definition of the fight’s action.

'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'

by rohedron on Mar 21, 2011 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wow

No they don’t make me feel bad. They make me feel like people are focusing on things that happen every fight and are magnified because Jones is a monster. Particularly the very legal downward kick to the knee.

Sports is human life in microcosm. ~Howard Cosell
The more you sweat in practice, the less you bleed in battle. ~Author Unknown
The breakfast of champions is not cereal, it's the opposition. ~Nick Seitz

by warren305 on Mar 20, 2011 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Particularly the very legal downward kick to the knee.

Name five fights you’ve seen it over and over like that. It’s brutal.

by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 20, 2011 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not going to try to do that

But this just reeks of the NCAA outlawing dunking in 1978 because some center from UCLA was unstoppable.

Shogun wasn’t in a position where he couldn’t block or counter the move, he’s wasn’t defenseless. Its an effective manuver. I thought we wanted to let fighters use as many points, moves and positions as possible to hurt their opponent.

Sports is human life in microcosm. ~Howard Cosell
The more you sweat in practice, the less you bleed in battle. ~Author Unknown
The breakfast of champions is not cereal, it's the opposition. ~Nick Seitz

by warren305 on Mar 20, 2011 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

*1968

Sports is human life in microcosm. ~Howard Cosell
The more you sweat in practice, the less you bleed in battle. ~Author Unknown
The breakfast of champions is not cereal, it's the opposition. ~Nick Seitz

by warren305 on Mar 20, 2011 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is a fair point. Every since the Bonnar fight, I’ve been saying my little line that watching Jon is like seeing a superhero discover his powers. He’s a dangerous guy, who is just beyond anyone we’ve seen before and can make techniques that in other guys would look like a waste of time, count for something. The throat strikes or pokes, should be mentioned and criticized though. A guy who aspires to be what Jon aspires to be, should just avoid the eyes, throat and groin entirely. A little calling out isn’t going to hurt him any.

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 20, 2011 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think we are talking around each other. I don’t think anyone is saying the rules need to be changed. Just that Jon Jones has a real mean streak.

by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 20, 2011 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Word

I hear you man. It was brutal.

Sports is human life in microcosm. ~Howard Cosell
The more you sweat in practice, the less you bleed in battle. ~Author Unknown
The breakfast of champions is not cereal, it's the opposition. ~Nick Seitz

by warren305 on Mar 20, 2011 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

And kick ass breakdown, btw

Sports is human life in microcosm. ~Howard Cosell
The more you sweat in practice, the less you bleed in battle. ~Author Unknown
The breakfast of champions is not cereal, it's the opposition. ~Nick Seitz

by warren305 on Mar 20, 2011 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

MMA is brutal.

Suck it up princess. I loved it that Jones was actively trying to stop the fight at all times. No safe fighting there. It is a welcome change from some other fighters.

by DonkeyOatey on Mar 20, 2011 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

GSP

did keep punching Kos clearly ruined eye socket.
Volley.

by silent.bisonte33 on Mar 20, 2011 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Seriously? These things should be mentioned.

by Unabomberman on Mar 20, 2011 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

you're the arbiter of the value of "moves" right?

how about the ones that cause concussions? punches, kicks, knees, elbows

how about the ones that damages joints? armbars, kneebars, heel hooks, and so on.

no “move” that helps you win is cheap

by kellly on Mar 20, 2011 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

moves that are legal that help you win are ok

once you do something like intentional ball bashing, end of story.

the knee strikes were legal, it’s not worth mentioning them being ‘nasty’

getting punched in the faced is nasty too.

Alistair Overeem - StrikeForce Heavyweight Champion, K-1 2010 World Grand Prix Champion, DREAM Heavyweight Champion
June 18th, 2011:
Fabricio Werdoomsday
Game Overeem

by Chris Groves on Mar 20, 2011 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s smart, and I don’t fault him for it. When Jose Aldo was continuing to beat Faber’s legs to black and blue pudding, it was painful to watch, but I didn’t fault Jose. Now rubbing a cut to make it worse is bullshit…

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 20, 2011 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Knowing 'these things' like he's some blatant cheater

He never poked Shogun in the eye, he never eye gouged, Dean commented and he adjusted before it ever happened.

Those throat shots were illegal, but it was like BJ Penn catching Florian in the back of the head in their fight, when the guys are moving, adjusting, and Jones is trying to throw strikes, it can be expected.

Jones also immediately corrected when Dean mentioned it to him.

Jones extending his hand had it more open with his fingers spread out than forward, so pokes would have been hard. I also think the span of his hand kept his finger tips outside of where Ruas eyes were. Try putting the palm of your hand on your nose, and notice where your finger tips fall.

those knee strikes were totally legal, mentioning them being nasty is like mentioning a punch being ‘mean’ or a headkick being ‘nasty’ because the opponent has been knocked out before.

Alistair Overeem - StrikeForce Heavyweight Champion, K-1 2010 World Grand Prix Champion, DREAM Heavyweight Champion
June 18th, 2011:
Fabricio Werdoomsday
Game Overeem

by Chris Groves on Mar 20, 2011 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

He was throwing an open hand fingers extended. That’s how eye pokes happen.

There were shots to the throat that were clearly targeting the throat.

The strikes to the knee were brutal. The purpose was to injure. They may be legal, but I think it’s fair to question whether they are sportsmanlike.

I don’t understand why you are being so defensive here.

by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 20, 2011 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

the purpose of punches

are to injure. the purpose of a fight, is to win. the throat shots are questionable, having your hands open isn’t the smartest. but i just can’t agree with anything said against the knee kicks.

by silent.bisonte33 on Mar 20, 2011 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

THE POINT OF MMA IS TO INJURE

KNOCK OUT = INJURY

gosh darn snowden!

by kellly on Mar 20, 2011 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you don’t see the distinction in trying to win versus trying to do long term harm to someone, this is a worthless conversation.

by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 20, 2011 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes. The purpose of that kick is to blow out a knee. He’s a very mean competitor for sure.

by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 20, 2011 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Soccer kicks were legal...

and can easily do long term damage.

Shogun = meaner since he actually won fights with them,

by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Mar 20, 2011 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shogun is also a brutal fighter. What, is this a competition?

by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 20, 2011 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

a competition of love and heart

by kellly on Mar 20, 2011 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

No. just curious what the coverage would have been like. Shogun’s head stomp victories would have garnered a more congratulatory tone I’m confident.

by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Mar 20, 2011 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not for head stomps

but trying to a kick that has no other way to be effective than to injury is a little questionable.

A push kick to the knee serves no ither purpose than to injury, other wise it does not hurt. Have been hit with tons of them in training and also while holding kick shields. A push kick to the knee is one of the first self defense moves we teach women and its only use it o blow out the knee nothing else.

by Riley_96 on Mar 21, 2011 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

LOL

Everything they do in the cage is intended to injure my friend.

by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Mar 21, 2011 3:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

sure is but not to injure for life.

by Riley_96 on Mar 21, 2011 7:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

keeping distance seems like something that doesn’t cause injury.

by Phildo on Mar 21, 2011 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know, I saw it more as a mental tactic

probably endorsed by his camp. He knows that deep down, Shogun probably has a degree of insecurity about his knees, and seeing the kicks he will be more hesitant in charging forward.

by DrFernando on Mar 20, 2011 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

That is how I saw it as well.

"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne

by The American Ronin on Mar 21, 2011 2:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

the purpose of the kick is to get shogun off balance and make him work to avoid the kick

by kellly on Mar 20, 2011 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, this is fighting,

Now if this was lawn bowling, I would toss his ass out of the league.

by DrFernando on Mar 20, 2011 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

it is worthless if you are saying he was TRYING to do long term damage.

he was trying to win a fight. everyone who fought chuck liddel knew he’d been KTFO but that didn’t stop them from punching his head.

by silent.bisonte33 on Mar 20, 2011 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes i understand the distinction

but this is not an applicable case. the knee kick is a smart tactic. more so mentally effective than physically. shogun bears the responsibility of his health when he steps in the cage.

by kellly on Mar 20, 2011 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Certain people have their opinion of Jones and will continue to nitpick, twist, and actively carry out an agenda.

If the tide is suddenly Jones is dirty then so be it.

I stand by the believe that had Shogun amputated Jon’s knee, certain people wouldn’t blink about.

Just my opinion.

by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Mar 20, 2011 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

but you see a round house leg kick hurts it it is landed. A p[ush kick to the knee does not hurt unless you manage to blow the dudes knee out.

by Riley_96 on Mar 21, 2011 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

it was more to keep distance than anything else. but it’s also legal so…

by Dr.WavvyCrockett on Mar 21, 2011 3:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

i thought

you were the guy sayin you couldn’t know someone’s intention (or did I mix u up with someone else?) in which case…

'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'

by rohedron on Mar 21, 2011 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

I never said it was not legal, i just think its a gross thing to do.

by Riley_96 on Mar 21, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

I love everything Jones did.

Every strike, every hold, every move was made to finish the fight. That is what I like. I like nasty. I like tough. Hell I think you should push the rules as far as you can to win. There was no safe fighting, it was go for the finish at all points in the fight.

Shogun got his ass handed to him. One thing I noticed was Jones isolating that arm and twisting it for an armbar on the far side. Was something I hadn’t seen before.

by DonkeyOatey on Mar 20, 2011 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

when it comes to someones sight or ability to breath i don’t think the rules should be pushed. Anyone who fights and thinks “one little elbow to the throat won’t hurt” should be banned and never aloowed to set foot in the cage again.

by Riley_96 on Mar 21, 2011 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve seen countless people put a forearm on the throat. Happens at least once or twice at every event. Why the fuck are people up in arms about it now? Don’t single Jones out and pretend it’s the first time it’s ever happened. Own it and call out everyone else if you’re gonna do that.

by FightFan72 on Mar 21, 2011 5:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

No, they're saying he struck the throat. Forearm on throat is legit.

I remember a couple of people tapping to it in some early PRIDE events.

by Cunny on Mar 21, 2011 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

I haven’t been able to re-watch the fight and haven’t seen any gifs of this, were they truly throat strikes or more him lifting up (as if to posture up) and coming back down?

In other words, did it appear to be done for the purpose of striking the throat, or did that appear to be an unintended consequence of his movements?

"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne

by The American Ronin on Mar 21, 2011 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

no it was intended. His did not sit up, just lifted his elbow and came back down on the throat. its at the 4:30 mark of the second round

by Riley_96 on Mar 21, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

This is hilarious

So we’ve gone from, “There is no way Jones is gonna win” and “He’s so arrogant and I want Shogun to KO him to teach him a lesson” to “Jones is a dirty fighter” after he demolishes Shogun.

by HaterSlayer on Mar 20, 2011 7:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah. They can stick to the throat strikes. Those are illegal. Everything else is just hate for the guy.

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 20, 2011 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great breakdown.

Although I agree about some of the borderline dirty stuff by Jones being unnecessary, I disagree on the extra hate given to the knee kicks. I’m not overly fond of that kick to begin with, but that dislike doesn’t grow because a guy has surgery on it. Shogun doesn’t get preferential treatment on my eyes for that. If he says he is healthy enough to fight, then that’s on him.

Still seems odd how much Jones pushes it when it comes off like he could easily win without it. But I think he likes playing the mental games in (and before) a fight as much as physical.

by JeremyShane on Mar 20, 2011 7:36 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Yeah there’s no need to mention anything that isn’t illegal. What the hell is the point of an MMA fight. Kneebars, and many other legal techniques are far worse IMO.

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 20, 2011 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

dude push kicks to the knee have been brought up and the fight has been torn a new asshole every time they have happened. Vera, silva, and now Jones.

by Riley_96 on Mar 21, 2011 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve never seen a single people complain about it when Silva does it. Why now?

by Shnak on Mar 21, 2011 7:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

People in the sport complained so much when Silva did it that they reevaluated the rules at their next meeting.

by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 21, 2011 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Really? First I hear about this. Was that after the Patrick Cote fight? Do you have a link to an article? I’m curious to read more about it.

by Shnak on Mar 21, 2011 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

There’s no article. You’d probably find something if you searched the ABC minutes for the meeting in which they discussed the Unified Rules circa 2009

by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 21, 2011 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ok. But what about here on BE? Did anyone write up something to say that Silva’s push kicks were dirty and should be made illegal? I don’t recall reading anything like that here… why now all the outrage that Jones does it? Was it because it was done against one of the most loved fighters here?

by Shnak on Mar 21, 2011 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t know that there is a ton of outrage. I don’t know what BE wrote in 2009. I didn’t work here.

by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 21, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

it was not in the cote fight. It was the laites (sp?) fight. Also when Vera done it to Jardene it was picked up a torn apart.

by Riley_96 on Mar 21, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oh. I’ve been coming to BE for at least 2 years now, I don’t remember anyone crying about push kicks before. I honestly think that many people got hurt just as much as Rua did by Jones’s performance on saturday night.

by Shnak on Mar 21, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

many people have on several occasions, specifically with Silva. More people hate Silva when love him, so any excuse to crucify him is used. I love him, so I remember distinctly defending his honor, lol.

"I’m anti-stalling, not anti-wrestling." - lowellthehammer

by JaeeJaee on Mar 21, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

i was not hurt by it, i am a Rua fan but guys lose it happens. I’m proud for shogun for lasting aslong as he did, many others would have not. I was actually one of the guys calling out silva at the time for his push kicks. I know people brought it up about vera but the fight was buried due to it meaning nothing and it was boring. silva got jumped on for it and vera did too just not as badly

by Riley_96 on Mar 21, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh ok. As I said, I don’t remember anybody holding it against Silva for these push kicks. I think they’re a brilliant move, personally. It’s not for nothing you don’t see that move very often, it takes a lot of skill to do, and only a few guys can do it.

by Shnak on Mar 21, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Its a push kick, just aimed at the legs not the body. Its one of the first kicks that we teach kids at the school i train at. Probably one of the easier kicks to learn to do.

by Riley_96 on Mar 21, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why isn’t it more popular then? Shogun certainly seemed affected by these kicks, made him a lot more hesitant to get in Jones’s range.

by Shnak on Mar 21, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

maybe for the same reasons a lot of people on here call them ugly, gross, cheap or what ever you mind to call them. Maybe they don’t want to risk crippling the other fighter. That would be my guess, but a push kick is not a hard kick to pull off.

by Riley_96 on Mar 21, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s absolute pure BS. Everytime someone throws a punch, he’s hoping he’ll break the other guy’s orbital bone, and everytime someone throws a leg kick, he’s hoping he’ll break the other guy’s shin. They don’t throw strikes to play around, they want to hurt the other guy.

by Shnak on Mar 22, 2011 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

This is just wrong. I’ve talked to a lot of fighters and I think many of them would be pretty upset by doing permanent harm to their opponent.

by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 22, 2011 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

A broken bone isn’t permanent harm, though.

by Shnak on Mar 22, 2011 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Listen, you clearly don’t even understand why that kick is scary. It’s fine. You can be for nihilism and unchecked violence. It’s okay I guess.

by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 22, 2011 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Every fighter

Pushes the rules as to what they can get away with. Every fighter takes advantages of percieved weaknesses of their opponent. Whether you say you are trying to or not, you are discrediting any fighter by calling them dirty. Also, I guess we can’t make fun of Tito for tapping to Chuck’s strikes anymore?

Sports is human life in microcosm. ~Howard Cosell
The more you sweat in practice, the less you bleed in battle. ~Author Unknown
The breakfast of champions is not cereal, it's the opposition. ~Nick Seitz

by warren305 on Mar 20, 2011 7:39 PM EDT reply actions  

Lots of people did. I'm not necessarily talking about you.

Sports is human life in microcosm. ~Howard Cosell
The more you sweat in practice, the less you bleed in battle. ~Author Unknown
The breakfast of champions is not cereal, it's the opposition. ~Nick Seitz

by warren305 on Mar 20, 2011 7:43 PM EDT reply actions  

That's a reply fail

"Don't be intimidated by other teams. You guys got bubble gum cards, too. Let's go." - Buck Showalter

by duck on Mar 20, 2011 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes it is

Fail

Sports is human life in microcosm. ~Howard Cosell
The more you sweat in practice, the less you bleed in battle. ~Author Unknown
The breakfast of champions is not cereal, it's the opposition. ~Nick Seitz

by warren305 on Mar 20, 2011 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great breakdown, thanks

"-i never said half the things i said." --Yogi Berra

by Ovale Fan on Mar 20, 2011 7:55 PM EDT reply actions  

nice breakdown …
thx
Jon Jones makes me wanna punch midgets

by FLOJO on Mar 20, 2011 7:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Bas must of been smiling

…as Jones repeatedly elbowed Rua’s ribs and mid section while he was in his guard instead of just focussing on head strikes like most fighters do. I don’t know if that was Jones’ plan to attack the body, but it sure seemed to work at putting a big dent in Rua’s gas tank.

The final powerful body shot by Jones before the knee strike already had Shogun crumbling and might have finished the fight on it’s own.

by fatbackribs on Mar 20, 2011 8:03 PM EDT reply actions  

The body shots were brilliant

He’s kneeing to the body, elbowing (maybe illegally), but that forced Shogun to move and then get lit up especially when standing up.

by SES 84 on Mar 20, 2011 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

It was

Part of his gameplan, according to his interview on MMA live, was to pressure him and gas him out. He said that they didn’t thing struggles against Coleman and Forrest were because of injury, but because of the grappling. He felt as if he did the same, and he clearly had intent to elbow the body, then he’d break Shogun.

by HaterSlayer on Mar 20, 2011 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I read a similar post on Sherdog about this earlier -

Shogun’s problem not being cardio, but lacking strength endurance and therefore gassing when grappling with bigger opponents.

by Cunny on Mar 20, 2011 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

More articles like this are needed.

Great coverage, Snowden. JJ is a tough, mean dude. Rashad probably knows all of this stuff and is trying to figure out how to not get throttled within the first 120 seconds of their fight.

Did you see the size of that chicken?

by Heenan on Mar 20, 2011 8:27 PM EDT reply actions  

I don't see a problem with the breakdown.

Sure, there’s no need to call Jones dirty. But he did do those things. And those things are kind of dirty, so…

It doesn’t take away from the fact that Jones kicked Shoguns ass like nothing we’ve ever seen before.

What I noticed most was the kicks to the knee. Not technically dirty, but mean as hell.

He kept going to it again and again, so it was clearly a premeditated ‘attack the weak spot’ move. Repeatedly attacking the knee of an opponent who’s had several reconstructive knee surgeries and is just coming off a surgery is both awesome, mean and cruel at the same time.
 
It was like I was watching WWE, with the heel repeatedly attacking the knee of the face wearing a knee brace. I half expected Jones to break out a steel chair or wrap Shoguns knee around the turnbuckle.

But are these things so bad? I wouldn’t mind having Jones emerge as the Ric Flair of MMA. ;D

It doesn't matter how many people I've killed, what's important is how I get along with those that are still alive.

by Peter Nathaniel Fury on Mar 20, 2011 10:19 PM EDT reply actions  

I believe shogun could guillotine choke on Jones at the 4:17 of the first round.

I believe Shogun wasn’t in great shape after the 3rd knee surgery coming to the fight, which u might call an excuse. Forrest beat a similar shogun.

I just think shogun should have surprised Jones with a different strategy rather than striking.
i.e. : guillotine choke, a double leg takedown attempt and etc.

by Nodir Shermatov on Mar 21, 2011 6:58 AM EDT reply actions  

this was very good.

Impressive breakdown. I like the mean streak a bit, but wish it came out in his personality, instead of him saying poop, and dumb other shit. I didn’t like the autograph thing because it doesn’t jive with his “humbleness”. He really has the potential to be a great character if he can harness his demeanor from the cage into his demeanor in the build up to the fight. Confident, with a slight bit of a mean streak, and some swagger. Not saying change who he is as a person, but understand that you can’t play both sides, it comes off as much more contrived. Of course there’s a time and a place to play up your “character”, but it’s doing it in a way where it doesn’t seem totally fake that will help him become a permanent draw, imo.

The humble, good guy role is played. GSP has that shit covered. The over the top bad heel is cover by Chael. Jones can be an english speaking Anderson Silva, whose personality is under-appreciated in my estimation. Its enough to make people (those truly aware of him) hate him, and/or love him for who they think he really is, not for who they think he’s trying to be.

GreenHouse

by Loot on Mar 21, 2011 9:23 AM EDT reply actions  

Nice breakdown BUT...

Thanks for the breakdown but the whole “he’s breaking the rules” thing is just stupid. Let me look at your bolded items:

1. Butting with the head

Despite what Rogan said that was not a freakin head but. He hit his face on his stomach. I’m sure that caused all sorts of damage to Rua.

2. Eye gouging of any kind

You talk about a few instances where he could have inadvertently gouged him in the eye but didn’t and cite this rule as backup?

5. Fish hooking

Never saw him do this.

8. Downward pointing of elbow strikes

Did it in the Hammil fight sure but he didn’t do it in this one.

12. Throat strikes of any kind

Um… he didn’t strike him in the throat. He pushed on it multiple times. That is not against the rules.

Look, did he fight a brutal fight? Sure. Guess what. They are not in the UPCC (Ultimate Patty Cake Championship)… They are fighters who are gasp fighting. He fought a brutal, LEGAL fight and it’s ridiculous for you to act like he did something wrong.

I don’t think I’ll ever completely understand why people hate this kid so much. /shrug

by Stulos on Mar 21, 2011 9:26 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

it was a complete breakdown

Not an effort to appease Jon Jones fans.

GreenHouse

by Loot on Mar 21, 2011 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Apparently they want a whitewashed world where it’s all Batman heroics and Jesus.

by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 21, 2011 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

1. There was a clear headbutt and other times he was basically “posting” on his head.

2. He was warned for insistently putting his hands around the eyes. I don’t think there were any claims that he actually performed an eye gouge. The bolded list was for commenters wondering which moves were illegal.

8. He threw several elbows to the body that were either 12-6 or very, very close to being 12-6 elbows.

12. He most certainly did strike him in the throat.

He skirted the line of legal/illegal throughout the night. The referee was constantly required to leap into action to prevent further violations of the rules. There is no “hate” in a breakdown like this. Things happened. We reported.

by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 21, 2011 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Are you aware of any further attempts to repeal the 12-6 elbow rule, after the failed attempt at revising the rules the last time, largely due to opposition to the expanded weight classes iirc.

"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne

by The American Ronin on Mar 21, 2011 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

wondering

if partly what we are seeing in the debate that plays out here, is a struggle within MMA between its NHB/Vale Tudo roots and its emergence as a ‘responsible’ and safe sport.

No one wants to see a repeat of Yuki Nakai losing the sight in his eye thanks to illegal eye gouging by Gerard Gordeau, but if someone were to lose the sight in their eye thanks to an accidental strike (i.e. if Belfort’s strike had accidentally ripped Couture’s eye out at ufc46 for example) then this would be put down to an accidental and tragic occurence.

Therefore, unified rules and their application even to ‘grey areas’ (i.e. Jones only raised his elbow an inch or two before bringing it back down onto Shogun’s trachea) – must be enforced as they must with any fighter.
As must grey areas such as – resting his fingers on Shogn’s eyes, not in them… these are threshold distinctions which should not receive the benefit of the doubt where a fighter’s life long health is at risk for our entertainment.

Where legal techniques are being applied to end a fight, the effect of which may also cripple an opponent for life, then legal or not this is a matter of conscience for individuals watching the sport (who perhaps want it to grow and be loved) as they are for the fighter who must live with their actions going forward (especially if they have known this while targeting this attack). Some of us clearly have no problems with it, others feel it crosses the line in terms of being unnecessarily brutal.

I for one would need convincing that actions that might clearly end a fighter’s career (knowingly undertaken) are within the spirit of martial combat for competition which is this sport’s future, rather than its past. Over to you.

'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'

by rohedron on Mar 21, 2011 9:48 AM EDT reply actions   2 recs

Well, this thread got goofy. I’ll just say that I’m not going to ask a fighter to NOT target his opponent’s most oft-operated on joint.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Mar 22, 2011 2:29 AM EDT reply actions  

Sure, but you’re a legitimately horrible person.

by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 22, 2011 4:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

But aren’t we all horrible people considering we’re fans of a violent sport such as MMA?

by Shnak on Mar 22, 2011 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

And you’re the judge of how horrible MMA fans are? ;-)

by Shnak on Mar 22, 2011 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Guess what?

I re-watched the fight AGAIN today on y DVR, and I tried to catch literally every ‘knee strike’ that Jones threw at Shogun, and then went threw frame by frame.

Every one landed clearly on the fucking thigh! ABOVE the knee!

From the one that Rogan called a strike to the thigh to the one where Rogan says ‘to the knee’ if you frame by frame it, it lands clearly above the knee.

Can someone please slo-mo gif a few of these to show everyone else?

Alistair Overeem - StrikeForce Heavyweight Champion, K-1 2010 World Grand Prix Champion, DREAM Heavyweight Champion
June 18th, 2011:
Fabricio Werdoomsday
Game Overeem

by Chris Groves on Mar 22, 2011 4:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Good thing Jones got the stoppage

What with all of the points Herb Dean deducted.

If Jones were clearly and consistently performing illegal techniques, point deductions would be appropriate, right?

Snowden, do you think Herb was negligent in not deducting points? If so, when should points have been deducted and how many?

by RedinRIC on Mar 22, 2011 4:52 PM EDT reply actions  

No, I think the officiating was great. What article are you reading?

by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 22, 2011 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also, on other 'fouls'

When Jon Jones gripped Shogun’s face/forehead, Dean warned him about the eye, but Jones finger NEVER touched Shogun’s eye, and as soon as Dean warned him, Jones let go.

Those throat strikes, there were 2, Jones brouth up, and quickly came back in with them, they were moreso under the jaw than aimed directly in at his adam’s apple or anything, and again, Dean immediately warned him, and he checked himself.

The ‘thumb in throat’ never happend, Jones when for the rape choke, the one handed choke that Lesnar did at one point to Mir…at was for a few moments, and when Shogun proved too squirmy, Jones let go. You can also see Dean leaning in to check the positioning to make sure it was ok and he wasn’t actually putting the thumb diliberately in the throat, which he wasn’t.

And the ‘headbutt’ was much more of a ‘chin butt’ if anything…and if you watch it, there is so little force put behind it that it is funny that anyone is mentioning it at all.

Alistair Overeem - StrikeForce Heavyweight Champion, K-1 2010 World Grand Prix Champion, DREAM Heavyweight Champion
June 18th, 2011:
Fabricio Werdoomsday
Game Overeem

by Chris Groves on Mar 22, 2011 4:57 PM EDT reply actions  

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