UFC 128 Fight Card: Where in the World Is Joseph Benavidez?
by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 16, 2011 7:30 PM EDT
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Saturday night one of the very best fighters in the world will compete at UFC 128. Unless he finishes his fight with Team Quest's Ian Loveland quickly, fans who aren't present at the Prudential Center are unlikely to see it. Joseph Benavidez is the second ranked bantamweight in the entire world; somehow this amazing fighter is not considered worthy of the main card or even the televised preliminaries. Something is wrong with that picture. Even Benavidez himself was a bit surprised by the developments, telling Heavy.com's Jeremy Botter that he would just have to go out and do his best:
They put me on the undercard and everybody complained about it. It kinda shocked me, too, because I thought I would at least end up on Facebook. I definitely think I deserve it. I go out and put on a great fight every single time. There is always excitement in my fights.
Matchmakers Joe Silva and Sean Shelby are playing chess when most of us are still figuring out checkers. There is usually a method to their madness and Benavidez told Bloody Elbow in an interview earlier this year that he understands why he isn't going to get high profile fights right away:
I know it. I'm in such a weird position. It seems like only I could ever be in such a position. That's just my life. I lost to Cruz already, was almost on top but didn't quite get there, I am in weird position. I think the matchmakers would agree that I'm on the level where I should be fighting a contender, a top ten or top five guy every single fight. Which I have for my last six fights, I've fought guys in the top ten. But I can't fight for a title, I can't fight Cruz again anytime soon, until we both wipe out everyone else in the division. And I won't fight Faber either.
But they know if they put me against another top guy who they want to challenge for the title afterwards, that I'll beat them. So they'll lose a contender. They can't do a number one contender fight with me because if I win, I can't fight Cruz. And they'd lose the other guy's legitimacy by me beating him. It's a weird position. They're going to have to find someone with enough balls to take a big step up. I'm young in the sport though. I think I'm going to be doing this for a long time. So it will work out.
While that explains why Benavidez isn't in the cage knocking off other contenders. It doesn't explain why they can't find a place on the air for one of the sport's very best. Joseph Benavidez belongs on television, on the main card. His status in the sport demands it. But, true to form, the big hearted Team Alpha Male fighter is taking it all in stride:
When it’s all said and done, I want to leave a legacy and let everyone know that I was one of the best fighters to ever grace the planet. I want to go out there and give it my all, to be a fan favorite and build that huge fan following. I want to inspire and change people’s lives through what I do here.
And of course all of the championships and wins I want to accomplish, and hopefully help evolve the sport. I want to get every bonus there is to get in the UFC. I want the submission, knockout and fight of the night bonus. And of course all of the things outside of fighting that it can bring me, just living a great life through fighting and this being my career.
I’m just grateful for being able to take care of my family and everyone around me.
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Without that merger, Benavidez would be fighting on MTV2, if there’s even a bantamweight tournament this season. ’nuff said. People really should stop thinking that the WEC merger was a bad thing… it saved a lot of jobs.
Er…without the merger he’d still be fighting on Versus.
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by Tim Burke on Mar 16, 2011 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Nope… UFC would’ve pulled the plug on the WEC and all of those fighters would’ve needed to find other orgs to fight in…
They had a contract with Versus until the end of this year for the WEC, no matter what.
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Considering the card itself feels kind of light on compelling fights (aside from the main event) it is surprising benavides isn’t making a televised appearance. I guess that’s just the breaks but I don’t think it will be that way for long. I’m expecting a lot of high profile fights for Benavides in the future. Unless I’m having a mix up in dates I believe Edson Barboza fights Njokouwani on the under card … That should be entertaining.
by Johnnynumber5 on Mar 16, 2011 5:09 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
This card is light on compelling fights........
….maaaaybe this sport isnt for you after all bro, I think rollerball is on TNN right now
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by Jonnycaz2.0 on Mar 16, 2011 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
BRING BACK SLAMBALL
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by Neil Manich on Mar 16, 2011 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
SLAMBALL! YESS!
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by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 16, 2011 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This card is full of great fighters.
For the life of me I can’t figure out why I wasn’t always a big fan of Joe. Guy is fucking scary and he should fight Jorgensen I don’t know why they gave him Ken Stone.
Doesn't want it with Duece
by doonerthesooner on Mar 16, 2011 5:16 PM EDT reply actions
3 tiers of broadcast for this show
And that they can’t find room to put this fight out there live is just terrible.
It strikes me as just a really egregious oversight, Benavidez getting lost in the shuffle and I’m really shocked the UFC hasn’t rectified this.
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I’m not.
I always figured that the WEC guys would get lost in the shuffle after the merger. That’s why I never understood the overwhelming support for it.
Lighter weight fighting
Is always going to be a hot and cold thing to sell to people. Casual fans want to see the big guys trying to rip each others heads off and I understand that. But there’s a big difference between the little guys “getting lost in the shuffle” and burying the number 2 guy at 135 on one of only 3 fights out of 11 not to be broadcast live.
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They did the same thing to Brown when he was still number 2 at FW.
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 16, 2011 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Was he number 2?
His career has really been on the skids since the Aldo loss. Sad to see one of my favorites fall so far so fast.
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UFC 125: 1/1/2011
Brown/Nunes is on the dark card while the likes of Baroni and Davis are on the ION prelims.
Consensus rankings had Brown coming in at #2 on 12/30/10.
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 16, 2011 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t realize he was still sitting at number 2 going into that fight.
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On the Aldo/Gamburyan card Brown TKO'd Province.
Gamburyan…well we know what happened to him.
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 16, 2011 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I knew that
Just surprised that he jumped back into the number 2 spot with that win. I think the voters must have viewed the loss to Gamburyan as a fluke unlikely to be repeated.
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That's what I'm thinking.
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 16, 2011 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
That and Faber had left the weight class.
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by Derek Suboticki on Mar 16, 2011 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
That's pretty ridiculous Brown was number two
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Debatable
Point is, he was definitely a consensus top 5 fighter in his weightclass fighting in a dark match.
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I won't argue facts
But ranking him over Manny isn’t that debatable. The rankers done muffed up. But it was what it was.
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They did the same thing to Fitch
And it wasn’t a slight. After Fitch lost to GSP, his next fight (against Gono) was unaired. Why? Because a win means nothing and a loss cripples him.
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by Derek Suboticki on Mar 16, 2011 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Regardless, he was a highly ranked FW and former champ that was relegated to the untelevised card because he weighs in lower than 155.
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 16, 2011 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
He was still a recent former champ.
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Not that I entirely disagree with you
But sometimes MMA websites are basically “nerds of the sport try to guess what drunk people are into.”
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They haven't even had the champ fight in the UFC yet.
Is this an outrageous error on the part of Zuffa/UFC? Yes. 100% yes. Here’s the thing, these weight classes need exposure and Benavidez needs to be a part of it. As I’ve said this transition needs time. I really hope they get this right.
Cruz/Jorgenson fight should have been moved to a UFC card and if that were the case than this fight would have made it to at least Facebook. I do feel that this fight has to shown over Cane/Marshall, Almedia/Pyle and Pellegrino/Tibau. Cro Cop has to be on the main card. Jim Miller needs to be on the main card as do all the other main card fights. The Faber fight is what I think prevented this card from moving up. Until these weight classes gain some momentum you won’t see to man multiple bantam or feather weight fights on the main card or 1st tier prelim.
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by F'n Clownshoes on Mar 16, 2011 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions
It's tough.
Benavidez seems to understand the conundrum of the contender who can’t seem to crack the top, and there’s not another weight class for him to drop down to. Also, he won’t fight Faber… dude’s not doing himself any favors by not being a candidate for a title shot against the current champion or the guy most people think will challenge the current champion.
I completely agree this fight should at least have found its way onto facebook where any potential contenders aren’t posterized in front of anyone but the hardcores. I personally would rather watch this fight than at least 3 or 4 of the fights on the main card and on Spike TV. But let’s not be melodramatic. WEC fighters have gotten spots on the main card. It’s going to take time for the BW and FW divisions to be introduced to the masses, but once fans get a taste of the pace these guys can bring I think they’ll come around, and we’ll see more of them on the main card.
But let’s not be melodramatic. WEC fighters have gotten spots on the main card.
This is the number two fighter in the world in his weight class. The world. If there was ever a time for melodrama IT IS NOW!
by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 16, 2011 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
From a business perspective, why should they show him? He has relegated himself out of championship contender status, and he won’t fight Faber, who has beaten the champ, so he’s stuck fighting guys with no name and probably won’t be up for a title fight when it comes up.
I’m not saying I like it. I’m saying I understand it. I think that if things were different he would at least get a spot on Spike.
What if he was being shown on Facbeook? WOuld you be crying he isnt on Spike? And if he was on Spike would you be saying oh he should be on the main card, and if he was ont he main card its lets cry he isnt the co main event, and if he was the co main event, its dam the UFC for not making Benavidez vs an unranked fighter the main event on this PPV.
Seems to be a pattern.
I like Benavidez, he is a good exciting fighter, but he has lost to the champ twice, wont fight Faber and is fighting an unranked nobody.
You’d have a point if he was fighting Bowles, Torres, Kid, MM, even a Jorgensen, but he isnt.
Just seems like people need to cry about something with the UFC.
So...
You think two nobodies in Marshall and Cane fighting each other deserve a higher booking than the #2 BW and a nobody?
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Obviously they are
If they’re defending the idea of Benavidez, a fighter who’s only two career losses are to the current champion in his weightclass, deserves to be fighting in a dark match on the same card.
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Oh, I see what you’re getting at. I would rather see Benavidez beat up this unranked dude than Marshall and Cane, but really, he’s tying the UFC’s hands by being unwilling to fight Faber. I don’t feel a whole lot of sorry for people who won’t fight people in their camp.
Faber is the one that gave Joe the opportunity to be where he is today.
Why should they fight? Makes no damn sense. Same reason why Shogun wouldn’t fight Wandy.
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 16, 2011 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, I feel the same way about that. If they won’t fight, they have to accept all the consequences. Same as wrestlers who refuse to wrestle the girls. That’s fine, but you’d better be willing to accept the consequences and forfeit.
I'll ask again
Why is that even a fight you’d wanna book at this point? It makes no sense. When it’s a logical fight then you cross that bridge, but there is zero upside to booking that fight in the here and now.
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Cross that bridge when you get to it then
There is no garuntee Faber will be champ. There’s no garuntee Faber will beat Eddie Wineland. Why would you punish a guy for nto accepting a hypothetical match that’s at least three fights away? Why do you personally agree with that? It makes zero sense.
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So what?
He’s clearly the second best BW fighter in the world and you think it’s okay for the UFC just to bury his career?
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Why would they wanna book that match anyway?
Why would they risk Faber’s title shot against a guy they can’t sell as number 1 contender?
And Faber wouldn’t take the fight either, it’s not just Benavidez who wouldn’t.
And regardless of all that, what does that have to do with them not putting him on one of the THREE live broadcasts for this event?
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I didn’t say they shouldn’t. I’m saying from a business perspective I can understand why they haven’t.
What business perspective?
That he wouldn’t accept a hypothetical fight that they’d be unlikely to book anyway?
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What else are they going to book after the Cruz/Faber fight?
Faber vs. Benavidez would make sense at that point. Not a whole lot else going on at BW.
Miguel Torres for one
Brian Bowles would need one impressive win to be right back there in the mix. And given that they probably do a big build to a Faber/Cruz title fight, there will be plenty of other matches in the interim to figure out a contender.
There are more than just three guys fighting at 135.
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Rashad Evans. #2 in his weight class. Has suggested he wouldn’t fight Jones…
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by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 16, 2011 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
It's a pattern that you just totally invented for Jon.
You claim there’s a pattern, but only one of those things in your pattern actually happened. This is maybe the least effective rhetorical device I’ve ever seen.
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Slippery slope fallacy.
Good one.
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 16, 2011 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
It seems like you’re the one that’s always crying whenever anyone brings up the WEC.
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Not really Tim, I dont get why you cry about the WEC merger, your the one every other day with posts about the UFC fucking up the merger and why it was a terrible idea and shit.
You wont even give it time, if after a year you look back and your right I will say your right, but dam not even three months into the official merger your crying about it.
Fighters in ALL DIV get stuck on undercards dont they? Dont HW, LHW, MW, WW and LW end up on the unaired prelims?
You ignore the fact that Mendes was on Spike, Kid/DJ facebook, Faber is the oc main event, Bowles main card, Nam/Garcia main card, the rematch will be main card, Torres on PPV, Torres on Spike UFC 130, Aldo co main event PPV, your the one acting like they arent giving a single WEC BW/FW a main card fight which is bullshit.
You're ignoring the fact
That in this case it’s the clear number 2 man in the division.
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Every other day? I’ve been here for 3 years. Posted 3 pieces about it. And in every one, and this one, and every other mention of it, you have to show up and accuse people of crying. It’s getting pretty weak. People are ALLOWED to question things if they feel like something’s not right, and I’m clearly not the only one talking about it. Expressing an opinion is not “crying”.
Your comeback is always the same thing – woo, they’ve shown a few fights on TV. You read my pieces that outlined all the fights that have been on TV so far, so don’t put words in my mouth, implying I’m saying no one’s getting a fight. That’s bullshit. You’ve read Snowden’s piece here, and he has a solid point. Show me the last # 2 in the world that the UFC burying below NINE other fights.
Your “everyone needs something to cry about” meme is getting old and annoying…and it’s hypocritical to boot.
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by Tim Burke on Mar 16, 2011 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It was Jon Fitch
After he lost to GSP.
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by Derek Suboticki on Mar 16, 2011 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I explained that above. Wasn’t buried below 9 fights.
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Back then it was all the same if you didn't make the PPV
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by Derek Suboticki on Mar 16, 2011 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you two seriously arguing the same point right now?
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"Things were different back then."
“Oh yeah, well things were different back then!”
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I'm saying
It’s not unprecedented to have a top five fighter in a dark match. It’s happened before.
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by Derek Suboticki on Mar 16, 2011 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
No
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by Derek Suboticki on Mar 16, 2011 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions
We don't usually see eye to eye on things
But on this I am in full agreement with you.
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Too many people seem to misunderstand the dilemma here.
This isn’t about giving WEC fighters as a whole air time. I couldn’t care less about Roller/Njokuani/Cerrone getting televised or not. This is about the best fighters at FW and BW being relegated to the dark part of the undercard as if they don’t exist. It’s absolutely insane.
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 16, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
How many have been on pay per view?
Two. Miguel Torres and Banuelos. Now Faber is going to be on it. It’s clear Zuffa is willing to show their old poster boys, but they aren’t willing to show a fighter who is higher ranked than either of them. Not even on facebook.
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Since MMA rankings mean zilch
I don’t know if I’m necessarily concerned with seeing Joe. Plus the guy he’s facing has absolutely no name. I’d MUCH rather see Faber, even if he’s not “ranked” as high, because he is a better fighter than Benavidez. The belt will be his soon enough.
It shouldn't be an either/or though.
Why couldn’t they show both?
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 16, 2011 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
maybe they will? Just because it’s not scheduled doesn’t mean it won’t happen.
by Austin Martin on Mar 16, 2011 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
But that depends on a number of factors.
Why am I guaranteed Almeida/Pyle and Batman/Tibau while the no. 2 BW fighter has to get a finish within a round to get any air time? That’s crazy.
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 16, 2011 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not demanding maincard treatment
But if you have three tiers of broadcast, are showing 8 of 11 scheduled fights live in some form or another, how does the unquestioned #2 fighter at a weightclass get relegated to a dark match behind fights like Cane/Marshall or Pyle/Almeida?
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because of who he’s fighting, clearly. Joe himself realizes this, I don’t understand how its so hard for us to.
by Austin Martin on Mar 16, 2011 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh I'm sorry
I didn’t realize that Luis Cane and Elliot Marshall were names that were on the minds of the masses.
And if I was Benavidez I’d be pretty irked that I couldn’t even make the Facebook broadcast over the likes of Pellegrino/Tibau and Pyle/Almeida.
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But with it not being scheduled it DOES mean less money for him from the sponsors.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 16, 2011 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
And Faber is a better fighter?
That’s news to me.
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 16, 2011 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
really? because he's going to be #1 BW in the world in under a year
by Austin Martin on Mar 16, 2011 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
So you can say objectively that he’s a better fighter based on what you subjectively think will happen in the future. Makes sense.
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 16, 2011 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm objectively saying he's better because
A. Former reigning champ
B. Only losses were to top of food chain
C. higher level of competition in his wins
D. He’s just BETTER.
by Austin Martin on Mar 16, 2011 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
oh yeah, and he beat the guy who’s beaten Joe TWICE
by Austin Martin on Mar 16, 2011 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Which is why Chuck is better than Rampage.
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 16, 2011 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
He's saying Dominick wasn't the same fighter then.
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 16, 2011 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not saying you're wrong necessarily (although I do disagree)
It’s just not a fact like you’re stating it is.
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 16, 2011 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
How's this then
Benavidez is objectively more accomplished at BW than Urijah Faber and recently beat Miguel Torres who was also recently shown on a PPV. Facts.
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True, but as you know, rankings can’t really account for someone’s established record in other divisions. Everyone starts out a little low and works their way into a division. This is the case with Faber.
I lol’d. I love it when someone tells another off for holding clinging onto rankings. The way it currently is structured, MMA is sports entertainment, people. these “rankings” mean nothing, completely imaginary.
If a snapshot in time of the consensus of those watching the sport is meaningless, then sure!
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by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 17, 2011 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Hm well le’s compare this “consensus” to well, an actually objective ranking system, like tennis has. Where rankings are based on, hmm, quantifiable results?! What a queer idea! It’s almost like they’re trying to make an unbiased way to determine who’s best!
Too few fights in a year for that to have a high degree of working. That’s why right now the only kind of ranking system that makes sense is something like our consensus rankings, something where bias by any individual ranking member is offset by the existence of the other members.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 17, 2011 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions
One simple explanation
Is that they expect the fight to be short, which makes it a likely candidate for PPV card filler. On some level they must prefer airing a completely unaired prelim, as opposed to a Facebook or Ion fight that many have already seen.
by superflat on Mar 16, 2011 5:50 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
This^
This kid is gonna get choked out with an arm in guillotine in the first.
Doesn't want it with Duece
by doonerthesooner on Mar 16, 2011 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
exactly. I’d rather the fight be unaired because benavidez is going to stomp right through his and they can either show it on the prelims or on the broadcast. I don’t get why there are ALWAYS complaints about this sort of thing. Especially when the main card is pretty fantastic as it is.
by Austin Martin on Mar 16, 2011 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
less money, less money, less money.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 16, 2011 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
GSP has fought on the under card twice. Jus sayin.
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When he was at or very near the top of the division? Because that’s a different argument.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 16, 2011 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I understand that he’s not on the PPV, this card is stacked, but Benavidez’ fight about a 100 times more compelling and relevant than Cane/Marshall.
Maybe Spike requested a TUF fighter on their broadcast, that’s the only explanation I have for showing that fight.
I’m quite confident though, that it will be shown at some point. I believe that at least 3 of the PPV fights will not go to a decision (I hope for a 5 round epic war in the main event, but I guess someone will finish this fight in the early rounds and I don’t see a chance that Faber will go the distance). So there will be time to show Benavidez. He’ll win within a round, I’m sure.
How is it relevant?
Benavidez has lost twice to the champ, and won’t fight the #3 contender. The only way he gets a title shot is if someone else rises up and makes a clear run at being titleworthy.
Fitch lost to the champ and won't fight Koscheck.
Somehow he ends up being televised though. Wonder how that happens.
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 16, 2011 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Once, and that was a build-up match against Gono after losing to GSP.
Benavidez is coming off an impressive destruction of Fabiano.
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 16, 2011 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
So the solution is to keep making sure nobody sees him?
That makes sense. That way you can justify sticking him on the dark card until he either loses or fights for the belt, and then he won’t draw because nobody knows who he is so he’ll get sent back to the dark card.
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 16, 2011 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I honestly hate belts
They are a stupid marketing ploy that sometimes get in the way of what I really like to see. Good fighters fighting other good fighters. Hierarchy is nice sometimes, and it provides narrative, but it’s still secondary. This used to crop up a lot with Strikeforce and I had to say it a lot. Belts shouldn’t matter. Was Bj/Fitch any less of a legendary fight because there wasn’t a piece of leather on the line? No. Is Benavidez not worth watching because it doesn’t make sense for him to fight for a marketing ploy? No.
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by Neil Manich on Mar 16, 2011 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Man...we're in mental sync or something.
Before I could even type it up you already said it. Brilliant.
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 16, 2011 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't agree with you on hating belts
But if it makes you feel any better, I would rather see this fight than Marquardt/Miller, Cane/Marshall, and Almeida/Pyle.
I think not liking belts is nonsense, though. Penn/Fitch was still a legendary fight, I don’t see why you’re making a point of it not being for the belt (it was still the main event). Benavidez is digging his own career grave by being unwilling to fight top guys.
Haha, I don’t want to make it a sport constantly disagreeing with you, sorry. But the only guy Benavidez is not willing to fight is Faber, and Team Alpha Male seem to be very close. I’m sure he doesn’t see a problem fighting Cruz again, just the fact that he lost to him twice already, makes it highly unlikely that he’s booked fighting him again anytime soon.
Come on, now
BJ/Fitch would have been a lot more epic at five rounds instead of three, or if either had taken GSP’s strap. Having a UFC belt at WW lets you know that, as sick as the BJ/Fitch fight was, the best WW on the planet wasn’t involved.
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by Derek Suboticki on Mar 16, 2011 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions
you actually believe that two guys being a loss away from being cut are more relevant than the #2 fighter of a weight division? Yes, he acknowledges himself that he’s in a weird position in that he cannot fight either #1 or #3 right now. Still he’s one of the best in the world in this division.
Lots of guys who realistically will never get a title shot are shown on TV, and they are not even among the top of a division.
In the short run, it might make business sense. a TUF veteran for example might draw more eyes to the Spike broadcast. But Benavidez is known for exciting fights, which might make him a “star” (in the relative sense) in the long run. but that can only happen, if he’s actually shown on TV. For a guy like him Spike would be actually perfect. More eyeballs than on the PPV, exciting style, fun fights.
It’s not a foregone conclusion that he won’t be on TV. I would wager that if it’s a good fight it will end up getting aired anyway.
yes, we will most likely see the fight. but as I already stated below, Benavidez will not be able to say to his sponsors: pay me money, I might make TV. this will definitely lose him some money and I want someone as exciting as Benavidez to be paid. let’s hope he pulls off sub of the night or something and gets himself some bonus money.
If he was willing to fight Faber, I promise that fight would be on the main card and he could make lots of sponsor money.
Asking him to fight Faber is unrealistic
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And Joe is a pretty good interview
I know some people don’t dig his shtick, but I think he’s hilarious. Seems like he’d be a pretty easy guy to promote.
Why does it matter?
And if he wins in the first round and they show it on Spike if htey have time or on the PPV does it matter? We still saw the fight.
There is a very good chance we don't see this fight
But we will definitely see Njokuwani vs Barbosa for some reason.
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Head Kick Legend
I'd like to see that fight on a Versus card definitely
Don’t really want to see it over Koch/Assuncao or over Benavidez though.
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/sigh. If you’re arguing that Koch/Assuncao should be on a main card, I can see your bias and that there is no changing your mind.
I'm not
I’m saying I’d rather see Koch/Assuncao over Njokuwani/Barbosa.
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Your loss I suppose. Did you see Barboza’s last fight? Don’t see TKO by leg kicks too often. I would pick that in a heartbeat.
You see Koch's last fight?
And I’d rather watch Assuncao over Njokuwani pretty much any day of the week.
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Koch fought a guy who took the bout at the last minute
And had little chance of winning.
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
yes I’m really looking forward to Barboza v. Njokuwani. Barbozas leg kicks were amazing and I also like Njokuwani. This is gonna be a great fight. I hate the other Spike fight they show, but that’s the old TUF veteran syndrome. Can’t do anything about it, apparently.
I’m sure Spike plays a role in that. Better for their ratings to have guys from their own network as opposed to guys who were built up on versus.
I do wish Benavidez could make it onto Facebook though. It doesn’t seem like there’s anything preventing them playing all the undercard fights there.
Look you want to say you want this fight over Cane/marshall I’m in agreement with you, but Barboza/Njokuani is one of the most exciting fights ont eh card, I’ll pick that over any undercard fight and honestly other then the main event I am more excited about this fight then any other.
But I follow prospects and Edson is one of the top LW to watch, him and Njokuani is gonna be a hell of a striking match.
Of course it still matters.
Because the message being sent to Benavidez is “Sorry, we know you’re the second best fighter in your weight class but you’re still not even as important as Luiz Cane coming off 2 losses and Elliot Marshall, who got fired for being too boring. Hell, you’re not even as important as journeymen like Tibau and Batman.”
That’s bullshit.
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 16, 2011 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
For someone who’s harped about how important it is to have the best all fighting under one roof, asking why it matters seems like a pretty obtuse question coming from you.
It matters because if you’re goign to have the best talent and sell your brand on the idea that you have the best talent, then the #2 fighter in any weightclass should get higher billing than fighters like Elliot Marshall and Luiz Cane, middling fighters just fighting to keep their jobs with the promotion.
I dont’ care if the champion has beat him twice. That methodology never stopped the UFC from televising Rich Franklin fights. I can garuntee you Josh Koschek’s next fight is going to be televised, BJ Penn just main evented in a weight class where he has two losses to the champion. The UFC is basically burying this guy, and there’s not discernable explanation for why.
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First, it’s a big IF? There have been numerous cards before were all the fights have gone to decision and we didn’t see the prelims. Secondly, it’s bad for Benavidez himself. Without being shown on TV, he’ll make much less money from sponsorships. They will not pay you because you “might get shown on TV”.
he needs to have his fight shown
in ~2 years when the UFC adds a flyweight division, benavidez and demetrious johnson are going to be its biggest stars. UFC needs to start promoting them now rather than later
dont even get me started on this snowden
good to see your fighting the good fight though
WEC NEVER DIE
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by milk72 on Mar 16, 2011 6:37 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Like milk 72 said, thanks for fighting the good fight.
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I dont get there logic.
They would rather put TUF cast members on the air instead of top ten fighters? Its pretty lame, the ufc thinks the TUF guys have huge fan bases or something. They need to stop disrespecting top tier fighters for the new TUF guys that are not gonna last.
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by lawdawgfightcrew on Mar 16, 2011 6:55 PM EDT reply actions
does anyone know, whether Spike has any say in the selection of the fights on their broadcast? They might request TUF veterans. But maybe that’s just speculation, and the fights are independently selected by the UFC, I have no idea.
I doubt dana would give spike that much power.
"Cry in the dojo. Laugh on the battlefield"
by lawdawgfightcrew on Mar 16, 2011 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes they do
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Another thing: I was curious to see which ranked Bantamweights aside from Cruz and Faber Benavidez has not fought yet. And astoundingly, he hasn’t fought a ton. Even with him defeating a couple, it would be quite unlikely for him to eliminate all title challengers. And I’m sorry: Benavidez v. at least the first five of this list would all be viable PPV material.
Brian Bowles, Scott Jorgensen, Takeya Mizugaki, Brad Pickett, Demetrious Johnson, Eddie Wineland, Damacio Page, Charlie Valencia, Michael McDonald, Renan Barao, Antonio Banuelos
(USA TODAY/SB Nation Rankings)
I got twenty bucks that says Benavidez makes more for this fight than he did for any in the WEC.
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by Derek Suboticki on Mar 16, 2011 7:59 PM EDT reply actions
You don’t have 20 bucks. Stop lying.
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by Tim Burke on Mar 16, 2011 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You've had a day
No more slack.
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by Derek Suboticki on Mar 16, 2011 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
You just started, there’s no way you got paid yet. I have till then to talk about money at least.
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I got my tax returns from my unemployment last week.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Mar 16, 2011 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
There’s no way I’m counting that. That’s getting paid for NOT working.
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I chose to have a percentage withheld
And it’s currency, so it counts for me.
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by Derek Suboticki on Mar 16, 2011 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough
I’ll have to go back to attacking your opinions again. Luckily there’s plenty of ammo left there.
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Oh, this is going to be fun. Imagine the shit you could give me if I had called for co-promotion last year, though.
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by Derek Suboticki on Mar 16, 2011 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Last year you were too bust writing about the SF HWGP not happening despite all the rumors (wrongo), Jon Fitch had earned his 2nd title shot, and some stuff about your probation.
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So the first quarter of the first round happens and we declare the tournament to have “happened”?
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by Derek Suboticki on Mar 16, 2011 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
If you use your food stamps to buy a burger and only eat a quarter of it, did you eat?
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Not a burger, I didn’t. That’s a special kind of full.
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by Derek Suboticki on Mar 16, 2011 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions
That may be true
But that’s not the point.
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Okay, another twenty says it makes the PPV if it doesn’t go to decision.
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by Derek Suboticki on Mar 16, 2011 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure, that's a possibility
I can garuntee you he’s not making as much money as he would with a fight garunteed to broadcast live.
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Okey dokey. But I’m reading that the WEC merger somehow hurt Joe Benavidez.
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by Derek Suboticki on Mar 16, 2011 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Fighters like being on TV. They get more sponsor money.
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He’s going to make more sponsor money for this fight than he did fighting for a WEC belt. I feel pretty comfortable saying that.
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by Derek Suboticki on Mar 16, 2011 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s still being denied the oppurtunity to maximize his earnings. If we all agree that fighters for the most part have a limited window in which to make money then I’d say it’s a pretty big deal.
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People are taking this too far. Should he be aired? Yes. Is he better off because the WEC is dead and gone? Also yes.
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by Derek Suboticki on Mar 16, 2011 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Have to agree with you on this
Just having the UFC brand and fighting for the UFC means much more than fighting in the WEC in terms of sponsorships, the potential to get paid more, and getting more eyeballs on Benavidez (in the future, not for this particular fight). It is unfortunate that he isn’t on Facebook, Spike prelims, or the main card though. However, unless one wants to believe that Benavidez is going to be stuck in the unaired prelims for the rest of his UFC career, I feel that being in the UFC and not the WEC will pay dividends for Benavidez in the immediate future, if not now even. I’m sure he’ll get on some sort of Facebook stream, aired prelims, or main card even as soon as his next fight.
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Ah, the good ol’ “he should be happy because it’s more than he used to make even if it’s less than he should make” argument
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by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 16, 2011 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Three options: languish in a lesser promotion, fight one time on the UFC prelims (and be in line for a co-main event spot if you win), or start on the UFC PPV main card and stay there. The third one is the best, but two beats the shit out of one. One can be pleased with what’s happening right now without being completely content.
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by Derek Suboticki on Mar 16, 2011 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Why would you possibly defend this? There’s absolutely no reason. You talk on and on about having the best fighters in one promotion. Why? To put them on the televised undercard?
by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 16, 2011 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not defending anything related to his position on the card. He shouldn’t be there. It’s not a Jon Fitch v Akihiro Gono kind of situation.
But he’s better off where he is than where he was.
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by Derek Suboticki on Mar 16, 2011 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions
So...
He doesn’t have to wear the shoes the dog shit in anymore but he still has to wear the hat the cat pissed on?
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Yep. A UFC undercard gig is the hat the cat pissed on. Jesus.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Mar 16, 2011 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
You're really missing the point Derek
The placement of this fight on the card is flat out wrong. The attitude of “at least it’s a step up from the WEC” doesn’t make it any less wrong.
Is it a step up from where he was before? Probably. It just should have been a much bigger step.
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Right, before and after the merger the rally cry wasn’t “Finally we’re going to see the top bantamweights and featherweights in the world…sometimes…when time allows…”
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by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 17, 2011 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
No, the rally cry was "pay the little guys"
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by Derek Suboticki on Mar 17, 2011 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
And I'd actually consider betting the 20
Because I think he’ll make the same amount as he did in the WEC. He was one of the few well-compensated fighters (17.5/17.5)
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If this fight doesn’t make the broadcast I’ll bet he doesn’t. Most sponsors have clauses in their contracts to pay a certain amount based on:
- if it makes broadcast
- what’s the channel/program it’s being viewed on and the viewership numbers it gets
- is his walkout/ intro with banner aired and if he wins does he get a post fight interview with hat and t-shirt
if a basically unknown BW fighter’s match doesn’t air he ain’t going to make shit. I’d guess a few grand. Pdl? Snowden? Brent? Any guesses?
by John Nash on Mar 17, 2011 2:05 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Benavidez is in such a strange spot right now. He has lost to Bantamweight champ, Cruz, twice, and his training partner Faber looks to be in position for a Bantamweight Title shot if he beats Wineland. Benavidez is a highly ranked Bantamweight, but he hasn’t been introduced to the UFC audience as he was fighting for the WEC before this. His opponent is also an unknown, and he is fighting on a very stacked card. It is definitely odd that he isn’t even on the Facebook stream, but what seems strange to me is why the UFC choose to have him on this particular card.
Despite all this, there are some that believe that Benavidez is in this position because the UFC just doesn’t care about the Featherweight and Bantamweight Divisions, and I don’t feel that is the case.
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He said it himself. He’s lost twice recently to current champ Cruz, and he won’t fight next title challenger Faber (who has a fairly good chance of winning it). This is the reason they are matching him up with someone inferior and sticking it on the undercard.
I may not agree with it, but it’s very understandable.
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