UFC Buys Strikeforce: Who Wins, Who Loses
by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 13, 2011 12:05 PM EDT
in UFC Analysis
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In news that shook the MMA world, the UFC just purchased their main competition, San Jose based Strikeforce. The ink has barely dried on the deal, reporters across the internet are desperately contacting their sources to learn more. What better time for boundless and uninformed speculation?
Winners:
The UFC: Dana White famously has a tombstone with the names of all the competitors he's put out of business. Scott Coker's Strikeforce wasn't on it. Stubbornly, skillfully, strategically, Strikeforce was making their mark on the industry. They were showing real staying power, with a home on Showtime that was becoming pretty comfortable. They made serious waves with the announcement of the Heavyweight Grand Prix to kick off 2011.
Failure, in short, didn't look likely. That's why it's nice for Dana White to be able to snake his hand into Lorenzo Fertitta's wallet. Is the competition thriving? Not looking likely to kill itself with reckless spending or other foolishness? Just buy them. Problem solved.
Strikeforce Champions: Somehow I'm guessing Zuffa won't be enforcing the Champion's Clause in their contracts. Now a guy like Gilbert Melendez will have a shot at crossing over to the UFC when his contract expires.
UFC Fighters on the Bubble: The UFC has been running roughshod through the lighter weight classes with a meat cleaver, cutting a ton of pretty good fighters after a single loss. Those guys can breathe easier. Dana White specifically mentioned shifting some guys over to Strikeforce. It's a good way to rebuild struggling fighters or create new and compelling match ups.
Scott Coker: A few years ago Coker was running a local promotion. Although terms were not discussed, there is no doubt he was able to turn that small investment into millions. Get in and get out. Well played.
Losers:
The Fighters: Dana White claims that it is business as usual. That the UFC and Strikeforce will continue bidding against each other for top free agents. No one in their right mind believes it. This move will put increasing fighter salaries into the UFC's hands, stagnating growth. There is no more open market at the top level of the sport.
Frank Shamrock and Pat Miletich: Two Strikeforce announcers, two long term beefs with UFC President Dana White. Their contracts are with Showtime. Of course, that only protects them as long as Zuffa and the pay cable network are in business together.
Josh Barnett and Paul Daley: Two more Dana White enemies. Right now they are protected by contract. But when those deals expire, I expect them to be shown the door. Barnett is White's least favorite fighter, stemming from an ugly dispute after Barnett tested positive for steroids early in the Zuffa years. Daley is the poster boy for classless cheapshots. Both should be very afraid.
Showtime: No one is saying for sure, but there are already rumors flying that the UFC plans to close Strikeforce once the TV contract runs its course. White was already discussing the deal as a way to add fighters to his growing promotion. Will he really promote under two banners, despite the lessons learned with the WEC? Showtime will be in the strange spot of promoting and building fighters that will inevitably end up with the competition.
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what about women’s MMA? I don’t see this as being a good day for female MMA fighters.
by James Goyder on Mar 12, 2011 3:49 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
They'll probably migrate to Bellator after contracts are up.
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 12, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
I could even see a 145 lb. women’s tourney going down.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 12, 2011 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
I think the women fighters will be relatively safe at SF so long as there’s a market
"Anyone who enjoys watching sport on television is an imbecile; a dangle-mouthed, cud-chewing, salivating ding-dong with a brain full of dim piss, blobbing out in front of a box watching a grunting thickoknock a ball round a field while their own sad carcass gently coagulates into a wobbling mass of beer and fat and thick white heart-attack gravy" - Charlie Brooker
But SF isn't sticking around forever.
And when the merger happens they can’t go to the UFC according to Dana. So…
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 12, 2011 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
And Dana said in the interview there aren’t enough women for a division.
Bellator will be the home of women’s MMA in a few years, so long as they stay in the green.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 12, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
There’s no real market..
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 12, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
Is women’s MMA really worth “saving” anyway?
by Kuroko Shirai on Mar 12, 2011 4:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
IMO, not worth saving for the “big time” right now. Let ’em get some more depth over ten or so more years and then maaaybe
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 12, 2011 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
I think they're doing pretty well
within the confines of BFC’s tournaments. Which is a very effective way of developing talent, too. They get alot of fights against fellow prospects/ veterans/ etc.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 12, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
not as well as it should be
and they’re not making nearly what they’re worth.
by Victor Rodriguez on Mar 13, 2011 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Well
Unfair reality here- women don’t draw yet. Not unless you’re named Gina Carano, or (to a lesser extent) Cyborg, who made her name off Carano.
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 13, 2011 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
No.
Bolts from the Blue // "It's a league game, Smokey." - Walter Sobchak
Bloody Elbow // "Everybody underestimates the kick in the groin." - Bas Rutten
by Richard Wade on Mar 12, 2011 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
You really dislike Bisping?
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 12, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Really?
I’d think he’d be doing everything in his power to try and make amends. What other options does he have? Bellator is literally it.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 12, 2011 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
If you’re already being told that you’re not going to be welcomed back…then why bother?
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 12, 2011 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
Dana's word
historically hasn’t meant a thing. If Daley KO’s Diaz and gets on his hands and knees, Dana might give him a 2’nd shot.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 12, 2011 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah...
How’s that lifetime ban work out for Tito?
Daley is a bit of a headcase and may have taken things too seriously, but if he can shut the eff up and let his manager handle things then he’ll be back in the fold. That’s a huge if, but I hope he can. Alves vs. Daley please.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Mar 12, 2011 4:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah
That’s a great fight right there.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 12, 2011 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
Tito never was given a “lifetime ban.”
And he never assaulted someone after the fight was over.
Daley’s not coming back, and Dana will keep it that way just to prove a point.
Makes sense
They can’t have that kind of shit in the UFC. It sucks that a guy as exciting as Semtex has to be made an example of (because I think he deserves a 2’nd chance; Gilbert Yvel damn near put a ref into a coma and fought multiple bouts in the UFC).
Just the way it is, I guess. Off to Bellator for Semtex.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 13, 2011 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions
He shouldn’t be on his knees begging to get back in, but threatening to pull out of this fight is just bananas. SF (especially zuffa owned SF) isn’t going to let him walk away from the contract, especially now that they’ve started selling tickets. Finish his fights then go to BAMMA and scorch the earth, but starting the war while you are still under contract is just silly.
He's going to take a massive financial hit if he backs out of the fight.
I’m sure there is a contract clause that makes it so that in the event of anything other than a training injury you can’t backout of a fight that was already announced and promoted.
I doubt his future Bellator contract would be able to make up for the financial cost of backing out of the Diaz fight.
Paul says that he’s just as happy to be fighting in BAMMA were he makes as much, if not more, then he does fighting stateside. That and they want to grow the ‘Paul Daley Brand" as well. He’s not too sure what his future holds unfort. atm. I dunno though, Im really in the camp that this isnt really all that good for the sport no matter how you spin it. Competition is a damn good thing, especially for the fighters, Monopoly’s not so much. Guess time will tell exactly where things stand
How do you Know where Im at? If you dont Know where Ive been...Understand where Im coming from??
So basically
he’s pretty limited when it comes to business and reason and wants to effectively end his own career.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
that is not what wolfslair wants
he has been drop by strikes in every fight he has had after dan. except the miller fight. Pillow Fist Mc tea aka Crumpet aka Spitsbing aka The Doily Hooligan will not except this fight
He's claimed in the past he'd fight Hendo for free
Might be a different matter now w/ a rematch actually being possible now.
He's joined it recently
It’s probably an M1 guy posting on it, though.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 12, 2011 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
holy freaking crapola
i went out, played football, came back, had a bath, read some more of Penn’s autiobography and the ufc has bought strikeforce… you are fucking kidding me
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
You had a bath after playing football??? Did you have some candles and music to go with that? ;-) I kid, I kid…Just sounded funny
by mthom on Mar 12, 2011 4:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
hahahahaha
i laugh because, yes… i did have a candle and the first boards of canada album ‘music has the right to children’… i’m off weed atm :-)
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
Ha! Nice. I’m pretty much doing that right now. Laying on my bed smoking a joint at 3 in the afternoon on a Saturday. I thought the headline was an early April Fools joke or something
by mthom on Mar 12, 2011 4:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
damn right (april fools thing)
do me a favour though man… pass it over here!
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
Done. waits waits some more waits even longer You gonna pass that thing back or what?
by mthom on Mar 12, 2011 5:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Bubble bath and scented salts too IMO.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 12, 2011 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
i wont lie
there was a bit of bubble bath… hehe
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
Baths are lovely
Just took one last night.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 12, 2011 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
That's awesome.
Did you set up a small TV on the end of the tub so you could watch The Notebook, or did you just read your copy of The Secret?
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Mar 12, 2011 5:05 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
C'mon...
everyone knows you need to listen to a tape of Whale Songs, while smoking a roach and waiting for the Nihilists to come in with their marmot and threaten your johnson…
by John Danaher's Hair on Mar 12, 2011 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Hey . . . this is a private residence!
by Philosophy Pro on Mar 12, 2011 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
yes... but...
a residence with a rug just ripe for micturation!
that rug tied the whole room together
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
You forgot the White Russian.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 13, 2011 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions
SF fans, most fighters- lose
UFC nut huggers- thrilled
No competition for Zuffa once again
Strikeforce in Dallas!!!!
by DL2kold on Mar 12, 2011 3:51 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Win for MMA fans overall IMO
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 12, 2011 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
about time.
No more strikeforce embarrassing the sport of mma with their unorganized 2nd tier organization.
by psuwrestler99 on Mar 12, 2011 4:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
grow up
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
by rohedron on Mar 12, 2011 4:13 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
congratulations
on having capacity to both read and remember…
you’re a very good boy!
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
shhhhhhhhhhh
I’m in a mineral bath right now…I don’t have time for this…..
electricity and water
mix do not (to quote Yoda)
Unless by ‘mineral bath’ you are referring to the composition of your body, elements of which formed in the nucleosynthesis of stars…
is that what you meant?
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
I don't have a problem with SF's product
But I really really want to see their top fighters consistently fighting elite competition.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 12, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Agreed. Bring the top talent to the UFC and you can have the lesser but still exciting fighters like Daley and Diaz making exciting fights in Strikeforce.
by Kuroko Shirai on Mar 12, 2011 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
i don't think they'll be keeping diaz in strikeforce post-contract
Daley on the other hand is a toss-up
by Body Triangle on Mar 12, 2011 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
Depends on if he wins, really.
Diaz won’t be getting any hot offers if he gets knocked cold by Semtex. They have no use for some guy who can’t defend wrestlers, and isn’t a top notch striker.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 12, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
Good point...guess there's actually a lot riding on that fight
by Body Triangle on Mar 12, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
I mean, he’d get signed. But he would get a very stiff deal. Bellator might even be a better option for him if Semtex embarrasses him.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 12, 2011 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
but do you really think Semtex will embarrass him?
The possibility certainly exists, and the probability is up there so…I guess what I’m saying is, I admire your commitment to community service.
by Body Triangle on Mar 12, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
If he tries to strike,
and doesn’t pull guard, odds are he gets clocked.
Not saying it’s impossible for Diaz to outstrike Daley, but unless he gets it on the mat, I see him getting clocked inevitably.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 12, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
definitely...but will Paul Daley be on a fools errand by jumping into the guard for some ground and pound?
Time shall tell.
I’d love to see Diaz get his clock cleaned
by Body Triangle on Mar 12, 2011 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
I’d love see Diaz wrestle Daley into submission; quite possibly the most hilarious but still likely outcome.
by Kuroko Shirai on Mar 12, 2011 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
if it goes into the later rounds we could see that
lets be real daley needs to come in at 170 to fight for the belt. he stated that it won’t go past 3 rounds. he already knows he has to do everything he can to end it in 3. or he just won’t have the stamina to stop the barrage of fist
Diaz could pull guard and tie Paul into knots,
but who knows if he’ll actually do it. I don’t think i’ve ever seen Diaz jump guard.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 12, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
If he eats a Semtex hook and survives it...
… I could see him jumping guard all right.
"With gold thou boughtest Gýmir's daughter,
and so gavest away thy sword:
but when Muspell's sons through the dark forest ride,
thou, unhappy, wilt not have wherewith to fight."
~ Lokasenna
Too much star power to pass up
Hate him or love him, Diaz is one of the biggest and most polarizing names in the sport.
Not to mention he’s one of the most exciting and skilled fighters alive.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
Fair enough
He is exciting and a great character.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 12, 2011 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
the ratings he pulled for his last two fights
Probably had a little to do with the UFC wanting to buy SF.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
Semtex seems to have a diffent opinion.
Business as usual, what if i dont wanna fight for DANA WHITE/ZUFFA?……Dana white bans me for life from the UFC, Then buys STRIKEFORCE, and thinks im still gonna be EASY and fight on one of the most anticipated fights of the year (vs Diaz)? Which will no doubt make ZUFFA/Dana White money.
Daley vs Diaz still on?…..Someone better holla at my manager real quick.
Paul ’Semtex" Daley via the internets.
LOL @ "unorganized organization"
"With gold thou boughtest Gýmir's daughter,
and so gavest away thy sword:
but when Muspell's sons through the dark forest ride,
thou, unhappy, wilt not have wherewith to fight."
~ Lokasenna
Win for MMA fans matters more to me than a loss for a SF fan
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
throw M-1 in there with losers
I’m not sure if Zuffa and M-1 would be able to make a deal for Fedor or Mousasi
by T.P. Grant on Mar 12, 2011 3:52 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Mousasi isn't managed by M-1.
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 12, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
K-1's floundering anyways
Alistair purportedly hasn’t received his GP win money yet.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 12, 2011 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
i'm not sure if Overeem is a big loser here
he’s already won the Grand Prix for K-1. Now he’ll focus on winning the tourney? while waiting to transfer or renegotiate his contract. if he wins the tourney plus keeps his belt his negotiating capability will be through the roof. I’m not sure how much longer his current contract if for but if it’s longer than 1 year he would still be able to defend his K-1 title for big money if K-1 is still going.
"There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. ~James Morrow
"There is a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot."-Steven Wright
by F'n Clownshoes on Mar 12, 2011 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
Disagreed that the fighters are losers.
See, this should only be good for MMA in the long run. The best version of the sport should now be put forward, which gives he sport the best chance to grow. Growing meaning more money being in the sport. The more money in the sport, the better it is for the fighters.
"Who are you and how the hell did you get in here?"
"I'm a locksmith... and i'm a locksmith."
by Goonisis on Mar 12, 2011 3:55 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
what are you smoking?
more money for the fighters comes from competition. If there’s no competition they have no choice but take what they are offered or not fight. the sport will grow with or without this merger it just sucks that UFC/Zuffa always have to have such a monopoly over everything. I liked the WEC! i liked STRIKEFORCE! NOW JAPAN MMA SEEMS OVER ALL I HAVE IS BELLATOR AND DOWNLOADS OF MFC AND SHARK FIGHTS WHEN I WANT TO SOMETHING THAT ISN’T THIS PRISTINE ZUFFA PRODUCTSBEING STUFFED DOWN MY THROAT….#@%
by kiko_deep on Mar 12, 2011 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Competition splits the talent pool = decline in quality of the actual MMA fights we see = less people interested in the sport and less of their money in the sport = competition not that great for anyone because the people competing aren’t making enough money off this watered down product.
In the context of the current MMA landscape, or any realistic MMA landscape really, competition is self-sabotage.
And what the fuck are you talking about. UFC, PRIDE, Strikeforce, WEC, DREAM, who gives a shit? What’s in a name? Pretty much all you should care about is the fights, right? Are you even a fan of the sport? You sound like a fan of promotions to me, which is mostly weird.
"Who are you and how the hell did you get in here?"
"I'm a locksmith... and i'm a locksmith."
by Goonisis on Mar 12, 2011 4:33 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
If the UFC just waits out the contract, take the best fighters and fires the other 90% of the division, it will open the market up for a new org to become the new SF.
Personally I don’t buy the competition=good thing. Every other pro sport where the athletes make crazy money have a monopolistic structure. It’s more about having lots of fans. The UFC is pretty good at generating fans.
"an excellent example of why most MMA "journalism" is a joke. Pseudonyms like "toxic" and shitty writing like that dopey article"--- Joe Rogan.
But the reason the top athletes in the marquee sports get such huge $$ is the owners were forced under threat of or actual labor disharmony and/or litigation. It is certainly not out of the kindness of the owner’s hearts or some silly idea of “fair” that they opened their wallets.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 13, 2011 1:09 AM EST up reply actions
Frank Shamrock? Meh
I think not having to listen to him anymore should be on the win list.
Can’t be many people in MMA as good as reading an autocue as Frank Shamrock. Possibly because there aren’t many people in MMA who need an autocue as desperately as Frank Shamrock.
by James Goyder on Mar 12, 2011 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
Gives the UFC even more freedom to dictate purses, they tend to look after their top guys but anyone at the bottom of the ladder is going to be making peanuts for the forseeable future
by James Goyder on Mar 12, 2011 3:56 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
why do people say this? Compare the undercard of the UFC to what other people get paid.
by Phildo on Mar 12, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
the basic economics
of monopolies. with only one employer, there is no advantage to be had from different entities bidding on fighter’s services.
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
by rohedron on Mar 12, 2011 4:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
well, actually, it is
since that’s what basic economics seeks to explain
by Body Triangle on Mar 12, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions 10 recs
"Real life isn't like basic sociology"
“Real life isn’t like basic physics”
“Real life isn’t like basic math”
by Body Triangle on Mar 12, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Ok ok ok...so...real life is not like basic economics?
It certainly is like basic economics. It’s not exact, which is why there’s more precise fields in the study of economics, but it sure as hell is “like” basic economics. You know, otherwise, they wouldn’t be teaching it.
Ditto with my analogies.
And nobody is fallating my analogies.
by Body Triangle on Mar 12, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
by the way, I think you misinterpreted what I said
Which is my fault really. When I say “they teach economics”, I am referring to economics professors.
Additionally, I believe you’d be hard pressed to find a non-religious affiliated university or college that teaches creationism as a science.
by Body Triangle on Mar 12, 2011 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
True but it still defeats your argument.
by Kuroko Shirai on Mar 12, 2011 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
Not at all
My argument is this: “Basic economics” seeks to explain the world around us through verifiable data that helps to make certain predictions. As time has shown, it’s basic components, or theories, are as close to truth as can be until they are either later disproved, or given a caveat.
Creationism doesn’t defeat my argument because its not based on any verifiable data nor is it taught at any non-religiously affiliated institution of higher learning (colleges, universities)
by Body Triangle on Mar 12, 2011 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
Your original argument has that basic economics is an accurate model for real life because it seeks to describe real life. Circular logic I rightly had an issue with.
by Kuroko Shirai on Mar 12, 2011 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
Fair enough, i can understand that
My original argument was poorly articulated. However, your comment by no means “defeats” my argument?
by Body Triangle on Mar 12, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
Well, let’s get back to the point then. There are lots of forces at work when it comes to fighter salaries (Zuffa’s continual expansion and growth of the sport for one) and asserting “fighters are screwed” is just pessimistic imo.
by Kuroko Shirai on Mar 12, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
"Real life isn't like creationism"
Sorry, couldn’t resist
by Body Triangle on Mar 12, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Theory is different from practise.
As the UFC continues to expand, it will create more roster spots and opportunities for fighters that wouldn’t have had them.
by Kuroko Shirai on Mar 12, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
If theory is vastly different from practice, then the theory changes.
Otherwise, it’s useless.
by Body Triangle on Mar 12, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
There’s a lot we don’t know in all sciences and that goes double for a dismal one like economics.
Plus if you’re arguing from “basic economics” then lower card fighters deserve to be paid dirt because they don’t draw and are easily replaceable even across different promotions. If you’re after fighter welfare, you’re better off lobbying that Zuffa provide all fighter under its umbrella with a salary floor.
by Kuroko Shirai on Mar 12, 2011 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
They are paid dirt across the different promotions.
The only difference is, arguably, the BETTER undercard fighters are in the UFC, which comports with…basic economics. They pay more to attract better competition, and those who can’t get those undercard slots get paid peanuts in the regional promotions.
by Body Triangle on Mar 12, 2011 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
I see the point you’re making but Strikeforce wasn’t driving up the prices on undercard fighters. Essentially nothing has changed.
by Kuroko Shirai on Mar 12, 2011 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you're saying
There’s not a lot of competition out there, so really, NO ONE is driving up undercard fighter prices. Its the UFC or the highway for these undercard guys: get paid in cents in the UFC, or go elsewhere for peanuts.
by Body Triangle on Mar 12, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
So what’s changed now that Zuffa owns Strikeforce? SF outsourced their undercards to local promoters for spot shows.
by Kuroko Shirai on Mar 12, 2011 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
As far as undercards go?
Nothing. Which is in line with the theory of basic economics. The UFC, for all intents and purposes, has a monopoly on fighters in the U.S. (pre-strikeforce purchase). They pay their undercard fighters what they want.
Strikeforce (pre-ufc) pays what they can. Which is next to nothing. One wouldn’t expect Strikeforce to influence undercard salaries unless they had more undercard fighters
by Body Triangle on Mar 12, 2011 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
They're still competing with other sports for top athletes.
Bolts from the Blue // "It's a league game, Smokey." - Walter Sobchak
Bloody Elbow // "Everybody underestimates the kick in the groin." - Bas Rutten
by Richard Wade on Mar 12, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
No they’re not. Do you think they actually care if athletes choose MMA over Football or Basketball? Are the working with the pop warner leagues of amatuer or assisting in sport expansions like golf or tennis? No.They care about having the best fighters in MMA and that fans view them as the best fighters in MMA.. They were selling Arlovski and Sylvia as the best and a Chuck Liddell who lost to Rampage as the best.
If the UFC tries to starve fighters, they open the door for a new competitor to start stealing talent. And anyway, fighters get as much or more from sponsorships (more valuable under the UFC banner than SF), than the purse anyway.
"an excellent example of why most MMA "journalism" is a joke. Pseudonyms like "toxic" and shitty writing like that dopey article"--- Joe Rogan.
No they don’t. We’ve covered this in depth here.
by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 12, 2011 6:41 PM EST up reply actions
Snowden,
Do you know when the Showtime deal expires?
by John Danaher's Hair on Mar 12, 2011 7:48 PM EST up reply actions
Are you talking about the Mitrione article, the one you apologized for?
The one where Matt fired his manager for getting less than 10k from his sponsors?
by it never gets better on Mar 13, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
despite the fact that the ufc is making tons of money per year,
anderson silva is still getting paid peanuts, despite being dw’s number 1 p4p guy in the world, and this pay situation is only going to get worse with the disappearance of a strong number 2 company in mma
This is obviously conjecture,
but I believe a lot of overseas guys only get paid a small portion of their purse in the USA and receive the rest of it at home. Otherwise, they get taxed by both the USA and their home country.
If Daley beats Diaz...
…and continues to do well I think he’ll be safe. Dana may well hate Daley but if he can make $$$ off him that’ll come first
"Anyone who enjoys watching sport on television is an imbecile; a dangle-mouthed, cud-chewing, salivating ding-dong with a brain full of dim piss, blobbing out in front of a box watching a grunting thickoknock a ball round a field while their own sad carcass gently coagulates into a wobbling mass of beer and fat and thick white heart-attack gravy" - Charlie Brooker
Damn, SF became a warehouse of people with Dana beefs. I hope Militech sticks around, he was pretty good.
Also, Jaca-fucking-re in UFC. Yes.
But he can wreck the douche…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 13, 2011 1:13 AM EST up reply actions
Wonder what will happen to Hendo.
Maybe the UFC will pay him more to come back but I have my doubts. Barnett and Daley will both be gone, which isn’t much of a loss as neither will be champs in their division but they’re both still solid fighters that are fun to watch so it’s a mild disappointment. Fedor will likely retire, but even if he doesn’t he won’t be in the UFC.
"[UFC]’s a great rush, eh? It makes your sphincter get real tight." - Harold Howard
by lowellthehammer on Mar 12, 2011 4:00 PM EST reply actions
Idk
If Fedor drops to 205 and fights Hendo, the winner will be hot stuff.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 12, 2011 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
I’m no fan of Fedor’s last few years in MMA; him rejuvenating his career at 205 would be amazing and something to solidify his legacy IMO.
by Kuroko Shirai on Mar 12, 2011 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
Here's who fucking wins:
People who play MMA video games. Holy shit!
by PistonHyundai on Mar 12, 2011 4:03 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
hate to burst your bubble
but EA is NEVER going to get Zuffa fighters. Dana’s got beef with EA. That’s why THQ got a headstart on MMA games.
They’ll still have the SF fighters…for a while
Dana has had beef with everybody
and it’s not always permanent either.
by av1o3 on Mar 12, 2011 4:12 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
he's the opposite of Hashad!
yo no quiero hacer mas nada
by Orcus on Mar 12, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I dunno.
When EA told Dana that they didn’t want to make a UFC game because MMA “wasn’t a real sport,” they kinda ticked him off bigtime. I don’t think that’s the kind of beef that wears off after a while.
Unless they throw piles and piles of cash at him to apologize. Then, yeah I could see it.
Have you learned anything from watching Dana over the years?
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
When EA told Dana that they didn’t want to make a UFC game because MMA "wasn’t a real sport," they kinda ticked him off bigtime.
Jesus christ are you serious? You really believe they said that and came out with the news they were making an MMA video game a year later? That’s a flat-out lie from Dana.
This is true, it could have been a flat-out lie from Dana.
Or, as I think, EA didn’t decide an MMA game was worth the trouble until Undisputed was a hit. Nothing motivate a company more than the dollar signs.
Undisputed came out in 2009.
EA MMA was already in development in 2008. Video game development takes awhile, the decision to get into the market wasn’t made on a whim by an industry giant like EA. I’m inclined to believe that Dana was lying.
That's not actually how it works
Companies like EA have tons of titles in development that never see the light of day. They do it in case some random interest sparks and they can cash in on whatever is the flavor of the month. Incidentally, that’s exactly what happened with EA MMA.
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on Mar 13, 2011 3:25 AM EST up reply actions
Fair enough that they decided to cash in once Undisputed was a success. Still, I find it hard to believe they’d have the title in development while harboring the resentment Dana reported from them.
Well. that is true. but it’s still a drag that the much worse product (THQ series) will be the one sticking around.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 12, 2011 4:42 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Was it worse?
I’ve only played the EA MMA Demo, but that was unbelievably awkward compared to Undisputed.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 12, 2011 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
The full game was SO much better IMO than the UFC franchise (which is far too arcadey for my tastes)
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 12, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
Gotcha
I wouldn’t have gleaned that info from the Demo then.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 12, 2011 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
Well that’s like, your opinion man.
But seriously, I liked Undisputed more, but for the record I think they’re both sorry excuses for good games.
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To expand … right now we’re getting some of the best sports games of all time. MLB 2K and The Show have seriously stepped it up. NHL games are the best they’ve ever been. Madden is … well, it’s Madden so yeah. NBA 2K11 (or is it 10?) might be the best NBA game of all time.
Even the “niche” sports are being represented in huge ways, like EA’s “skate”, which in my opinion are some of the best games ever made with how intuitive they are. Then I play UFC Undisputed and it’s lame, canned, fun for a few minutes at a time. Then I play EA MMA and my fighter feels like he’s constantly walking on the turbo arrows from F-Zero and I wonder why the hell these games are so … cheap. They’re not that good. One might be better than the other, but the quality is still far below what the sport deserves.
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Both games are the first in a series which has very little precedent and with no guarantee of profits. Deadlines rule in that situation.
NFL games have been big sellers since the days of the damn Atari 2600. Same for baseball games. Same for golf games. Big sports sell well and they can sink dev costs and bring in competent engine designers and game designers and let them just constantly work to make their game good enough to sell again every year.
UFC Undisputed by Yuke’s (yes, the same one who make the terrible WWE games) is pretty bad but that’s what you get from a studio like that. They adapted their WWE engine, which was already pretty damn clunky, and did the best they could.
EA MMA done by a new in-house studio and as a first product it’s actually a pretty decent start, considering that a first game in almost any franchise the majority of development is toolsets, engine build and optimise and just plain-and-simple getting the fucking thing to work.
The real story is it takes a long while for enjoyable gameplay mechanics to surface, and the mean-time is pretty much just a lot of experimentation with various approaches. Just look at the constant changes to the core mechanics of Fight Night, or any genre’s development over the last 15 or so years.
There’s been two Undisputed games. Skate (one of my examples) was a first time product this generation and it rocked the world of skating video games. There’s been MMA games before these. The fact remains that these games suck for what they represent and should be much more enjoyable.
Check out Chester, an Xbox game being developed by a friend.
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Yuke’s is not a good studio.
Skate had a long dev cycle and built on a lot of the lesson learned by watching the Tony Hawk franchise.
MMA is trying to simulate boxing, kickboxing, jiujitsu (never been a jiujitsu game to base mechanics off of). It’s not easy to build mechanics for all this stuff in between the rest of development.
I understand the way it works. I’m still pointing out that the games really, really suck. New territory or not, EA could have done a lot better than EA MMA.
Check out Chester, an Xbox game being developed by a friend.
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EA MMA is 10000x better than the UFC game minus the roster.. Hopefully they can do something about that.. the EA MMA game w a UFC roster!! OMG!!
by UFC Champ 420 on Mar 12, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
I'm kind of surprised to be in the minority here
I much prefer the THQ games, and I’m a total Fight Night mark. But it doesn’t matter all that much- SF fighters in the THQ game, UFC fighters in the EA game, just get one of them to me and hold all my calls.
by PistonHyundai on Mar 12, 2011 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
I'm with you.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 12, 2011 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
i really don't mind either game
Very different games really
by Body Triangle on Mar 12, 2011 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
Breaking news:
EA just bought THX.
by John Danaher's Hair on Mar 12, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
Boo on this man!
for making me waste a google search.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 12, 2011 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
sorry man....
thought the bullshit was evident!
by John Danaher's Hair on Mar 12, 2011 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
Twas
I was pretty sure you were joshing, but just in case… I googled
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 12, 2011 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
Zuffa signed a long ass contract with THQ. Sucks.
Would be awesome to have UFC and all other fights in EA MMA. I play that game still all the time.
Contracts aren't as binding
when you’ve got Zuffa money.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
Thing about game contracts is sometimes you can simply say “they fucked it up and didn’t make it to our standards” and get out of it.
Check out Chester, an Xbox game being developed by a friend.
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questions on:
M-1/ Fedor
Hendo
Pat Militich swallowing his pride and making the MMA world happy by getting in the booth w/ Rogan.
Belts/championship clauses
Daley/Barnett possibly getting fed to Lions to embarrass them on the way out the Zuffa door.
Which one end up in Strikeforce; Kos or Fitch
"There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. ~James Morrow
"There is a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot."-Steven Wright
Winners
JOE DADDY he can get into Strikeforce now and make that paper same for Keith Jardine he won a fight recently i think maybe even 2
Twitter @MaZZM
http://mazznettt.blogspot.com/
Yes two
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
by dedstrk316 on Mar 12, 2011 4:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I’m really intrigued to see what Showtime will do about all this. It sounds like the deal is happening more or less without their cooperation. If they’re still at odds with the UFC, continuing to air SF sounds like a recipe for chaos. One thing is for sure: after the growth Strikeforce has shown in the ratings in early 2011, Showtime is unlikely to get out of the MMA business. So, even without there being any way to predict what will happen with this unholy new arrangment, it seems likely that MMA will continue to have a home on Showtime, whether it’s called Strikeforce or something else.
It's called M-1 Global
I dont see how anyone thinks M-1 loses in this. They have a Showtime deal and once the Strikeforce contracts are up they are in prime position to jump in.
I posted this below too but Showtime presents M-1 Global: Fedor vs. Barnett ft. Paul Daley.
Not alot right now but for just like after the IFL, Pride, Affliction, whoever there are going to be fighters who dont want the UFC or the UFC doesnt want them
Dnt want the UFC?
nary a fighter doesnt want to be in the top organization.
CANT be in the UFC is more like it.
Time to learn
Zuffa contracts are why fights happen in the UFC without the months of slap-fighting you saw in Strikeforce.
by Kuroko Shirai on Mar 12, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
Fedor cant. Why? His close ties to M-1, which manages him and always tries to sneak in on every deal involving Fedor.
Daley cant. Why? Sucker punched Koscheck and then was banned from the UFC by White.
Barnett probably cant.
Your making it sound that if anyone isnt in the UFC after this cant be in the UFC which is bs.
Some fighters like Daley and Barnett will probably be never welcomed back. But Fedor could be in the UFC they just dont like his management.
Melendez can, Jacare can, Mousasi can.
Some of these fighters can be in the UFC but dont like their contracts and so they chose to go elsewhere.
Fedor in the UFC will never happen
he’s managed by M-1, who the UFC will not deal with, AND he is part owner of M-1… So he cant just up and leave.
Melendez, Jacare, and Mousasi will all fight for the UFC in the next 2 years
Melendez never said he wouldn’t fight in the UFC, he said that Strikeforce was family and he’s loyal and comfortable that’s why he choose to resign. This is no longer a problem.
"There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. ~James Morrow
"There is a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot."-Steven Wright
by F'n Clownshoes on Mar 12, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
Josh Gross said SHO got on board because the companies are being kept separate until the end of the current deal. SHO won’t put any effort into SF going forward but they might with M1 or maybe they do a deal with Shark Fights.
On board with making the sale, but I guess we’ll see how willing they are to get with the stated program of having a UFC-controlled Strikeforce on their network, run on UFC’s terms, when the signals have already been broadcast that they intend to gut SF as a television franchise and transfer the choice contracts to UFC. This is a very weird situation for Showtime to find themselves in, particular when SF recently became an unequivocal ratings success story.
At any rate, I think the claims that this spells the end of the competitive landscape in MMA are all too premature. It reminds me of when EXC went under and a large group of people simply assumed Showtime would tuck tail and get out of MMA completely. The competition for free agents will undoubtedly be affect by this purchase, but the competition among promoters to become cable television properties, for example, seems largely unchanged.
The problem is that the UFC walks with all the fighters. In retrospect they probably kicked themselves for not buying the Elite XC assets. Agreed that a competing promotion still inevitable. But this pushed it back several years…..
by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 12, 2011 4:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
UFC supposedly had all of the PRIDE fighter contracts too, but we saw how many of them did not end up crossing over… those remnants eventually helping to build promotions like Strikeforce instead. Obviously SF’s shop is more orderly than PRIDE’s patchwork of contracts was, but with UFC presenting an “our way or the highway” scenario, I’m not sure all fighters will be willing to sign over a transfer to the UFC, or renew without a free agent period. Even if it means a painful period of inactivity like some of those PRIDE fighters experienced. If there is room for Showtime to re-enter the free agent market and reclaim those assets, I think they will try to do it.
smoogmeister…. Showtime has just spent 10’s of millions of dollars and years building up an asset that Zuffa just strolled in and picked up.
What makes you think they’re going to start all over again from scratch? w/SF they had elite’s xc’s assets to work from.
First they’ll need a promoter. Coker has experience in this business and he barely stayed afloat and if he didnt sell his business or get investors by the end of this year he would have been doomed… Not only did showtime lose the handful of contracts that will be worth anything (except for fedor assuming he’s even still fighting by that time) but they lost the only promoter in the country who was able to carve out somewhat of a niche for himself.
That’s a check mate.
There is certainly a chance they get out of promoting major MMA fights, but for someone who no doubt would have told me up until yesterday that the Strikeforce brand itself has little cachet or value, I think you’re looking at Showtime’s position the wrong way. They’ve built a strong presence on their channel for mixed martial arts, a presence that is clearly star-driven. Their investment has yielded ratings and demographics that they will want to retain. In TV, when you have a hit that ends it’s run, you try to replace it with something similar. Of course, this presumes that SF will not be around past 2012, which is still too early to call.
I don’t think Showtime would start completely over from scratch of course, but I don’t think all of the crown jewels of the SF roster will necessarily end up with UFC. Particularly Fedor, who appears to be contracted directly to Showtime; The Reem, who is non-exclusive and wants to stay that way; Dan Henderson, who will once again be able to become a free agent soon; and most notably for Showtime, Gina Carano and the Women’s MMA franchise at large.
You’re right about the need for a good promoter. If Gary Shaw or Pro Elite try to fill the void, it would be a disaster. But if things with Zuffa and Showtime go sideways, I don’t think it is inconceivable that they will pick up with another MMA brand. And if history is any indication, we could see the same independent-minded PRIDE guys end up heading somewhere other than the UFC. Affliction MMA was created from the hollowed-out shell of PRIDE and some free agents. Strikeforce as a TV property was created from a tiny promotion, and the hollowed-out shells of EliteXC and Affliction. It seems more likely that this cycle would continue, than to see Showtime simply give up on their MMA business.
If it was such a success on showtime they would have been the ones to buy SF not Zuffa. If this enterprise was viable Scott Coker wouldnt have been running around trying to sell the damn thing and silicon sports wouldnt of wanted out.
The truth is that it just isnt viable. And I doubt the shareholders will be very pleased with Hershman spending countless years, tons of programming time and 10’s of millions of dollars only to now have Zuffa owning the assets. I doubt the shareholders will be eager to give him any more money on this project.
They’ll have Fedor but by then I doubt anyone will want him. Overeem is as good as gone and Hendo if he wins his next fight is gone. What is he going to do – Wait a year to see if showtime is going to enter the space?
and the assumption you’re making smoogy, that fighters will become free agents will not be the case.
If Showtime doesnt want to play ball and still decides that it wants SF programming for the duration of the current deal. Zuffa’s simply going to sign guys it wants to new “SF” contracts that include all the conditions and legalese of a UFC contract (exclusivity, etc…) with the obvious transferable clause… and the duration of these new fighter contracts will be beyond when the showtime TV deal expires. So the fighters would just transfer over to the UFC after that.
So Showtime or anyone else trying to sign these guys will be like trying to sign a UFC guy. It doesnt happen if rarely.
But first Joe Silva is gonna prune the divisions in some cases with UFC guys to see who’s legit and who’s not first and who wants to sign the new “SF” contracts and who doesnt.
I really believe showtime is thinking hard about financing all this for Zuffa and they will likely negotiate out and thereby quit MMA entirely. Or go all in and do everything they can to secure UFC programming.
Because if they just go along, they’re going to be financing Zuffa’s cherry picking operation with guys like nick lentz and jon fitch filtering out the cream from the crop on their network.
Either way we’ll know soon enough. I dont even think Showtime knows yet what it wants to do.
You two commiserating is just icing on the cake.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 12, 2011 7:11 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
M-1 doesnt lose
Guess what when the Strikeforce/Showtime contracts are up Showtime is gonna need the next Elite XC/Strikeforce.
Showtime presents M-1 Global: Fedor vs. Barnett plus Paul Daley.
he will get his own entrance into the ring like the fighters
he will come out last with his pigein flock with lazers and shit
Damn it Charlie
we’re not pigeons!
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on Mar 12, 2011 8:09 PM EST up reply actions
i don't like it but this is how i see it
who wins- the fans we will be getting alot more matches with top fighters
who loses- the fighters when it comes to money it’s either going to be ufc or back to making chump change
by BIGNAT on Mar 12, 2011 4:13 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
another winner- women's mma
dana said he would never do women’s fight he is leaving it for coker to do
I am predicting that Scott Coker becomes the head of “It’s Showtime” USA before the end of the year.
I’m sad.
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
by Tim Burke on Mar 12, 2011 4:18 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
i'm with you buddy
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
by rohedron on Mar 12, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Likewise.
"You son of a bitch, give me my plunger back."
- welterweight contender Josh Koscheck
by Rainer Lee on Mar 12, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Feel like I have been kicked in the gut.
by fitefan on Mar 12, 2011 6:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You’re weird.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 12, 2011 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
Because seeing a real company own SF means they will actually get the tourney done?
Because we may now actually see Reem in the UFC?
Because this is great and has very little flaws?
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
Well I am sad too
but I am not upset.
What this sale proves is that the market for MMA is not big enough yet for there to be even two major promotions. Scratch that. The market isn’t even big enough for a major promotion and a minor one. The market is big enough for one promotion and some feeder leagues.
So there is nothing to be upset about. Zuffa is a monopoly, but they don’t hold their position through government subsidies, bailouts or regulatory shenanigans. They hold their position because of the nature of the business and the size of the market.
by Lauren J Darkbloom on Mar 12, 2011 7:57 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Well said Ms. Darkbloom...
At the end of the day I think Strikeforce is transitioned into a role as something of a feeder league, not unlike minor league baseball or the NBADL. If its done right, its a winner to me.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 13, 2011 1:32 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah,
I think we will have to wait and see.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 12, 2011 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
It will prove a mixed blessing
We will get to see the vast majority of the top fighters under one umbrella, so we likely see the best fight the best, which is a win.
However, the overall quality of the cards will likely decrease in the absence of competition, and the growth of pay for the top fighters will absolutely be slowed considerably.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 13, 2011 1:34 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
if strikeforce does merge with the ufc then yeah we get awesome fights…but not for free. Strikeforce provides awesome fights for basically free. You think we’d be able to watch Fedor or Alistair Overeem on spike tv? I doubt it.
by Tats16 on Mar 12, 2011 4:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Did we ever see Fedor Vs Overeem anyway?
If they had done that fight I imagine they would have pushed for PPV anyway since that would actually sell.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
I can’t afford $60 a show. I will have to find another sport or activity to follow.
by fitefan on Mar 12, 2011 6:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hey
Be nice Phil.
In all honesty, I didn’t find any people to watch the fights with at the College I go to until this year. I always had to drag them to a sports bar, or just catch the fights on the internet the day after.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 13, 2011 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m not trying to be mean, I’m just sick of the whining about the price of a PPV card. I can’t afford 60 bucks a card, so I try to round up some friends, If I can’t, I go to a bar, if I can’t do that, o well, I don’t get to watch them all, I’m not going to cry about it. There’s lots of shit I can’t afford, that’s the way life works.
The idea that you HAVE to plop down 60 bucks a card is ridiculous, the PPV model is based around watching in groups, it’s not Zuffa’s fault if you can’t find enough people to afford it, and if the PPV model keeps giving them to most money, their going to stick to it, so your much better off getting used to it than whining about the price.
I'm with ya man.
I also think it’s about high time Zuffa gets a network deal. They should only put the ELITE cards on PPV.
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 13, 2011 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
they aren’t going to go on network TV until the money is right. If the networks up the amount their offering, or people stop paying for PPVs, (it will be a combination of both) they will be on network TV. Right now they are just making way too much money, even on the PPVs that “bomb” to do anything different.
That's a very good point
What’s a bottom of the barrel PPV these days? 300,000 buys?
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 14, 2011 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I find taking turns whose house we watch at the best scenario for me. I pay for the shows at my house and we chip in towards food and drink. And since I am the only one with Showtime, I host all Strikeforce and do not pay for food. Keeps it reasonable enough for me.
"Nothing's ever what it seems. And even if it is, ends justify means." -Matt Good
If we get Nick Diaz vs. Paulo Thiago, I will lose my shit.
Pothead vs. guy who shoots drug dealers for a living
Cesar Gracie jiu jitsu vs. Constrictor jiujitsu
Cesar Gracie in Diaz corner. Wallid Ismail in Paulo’s corner.
Neither has ever been in a boring fight. I love this merger so much just on the thought of this fight.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Mar 12, 2011 4:32 PM EST reply actions 10 recs
That’s a bad ass fight. How about Sanchez-Diaz II?
by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 12, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Kampmann-Diaz
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
by TheFilt on Mar 12, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
209
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 12, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
Forget the Diaz match ups for now.
To me, it’s all about Gil.
Gil-Guida2
Gil-Maynard
Gil-Edgar
"There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. ~James Morrow
"There is a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot."-Steven Wright
by F'n Clownshoes on Mar 12, 2011 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
Gil-Guida2
Gil-Maynard
Gil-Edgar
I feel like this is a 3rd grade exercise: Which of these doesn’t belong with the other two?
by John Danaher's Hair on Mar 12, 2011 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
you know your right.
I just think it would be pretty funny if Gil came into the UFC and fought the guy that he took the Strikeforce belt from right?
"There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. ~James Morrow
"There is a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot."-Steven Wright
by F'n Clownshoes on Mar 12, 2011 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
symmetry is a beautiful thing...
and, Guida was missing something then which is key to his current success: sweaty, bloody hair in yo mouth!!! Total game changer- moreso even that Matt Horwiches homeless stench.
by John Danaher's Hair on Mar 12, 2011 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
some people like the smell of wet feta & kim chee body spray
but i’m not one of them
Who's the only one here who knows illegal ninja moves from the government?
"That dude was legit, ponytails are a sign of nobility." TheFilt™
Diaz - Gomi 2
rectify the best no contest sub ever!
Who's the only one here who knows illegal ninja moves from the government?
"That dude was legit, ponytails are a sign of nobility." TheFilt™
Kennedy-Bisping
Cyborg-Alves (ooo I like that one)
by John Danaher's Hair on Mar 12, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
Let's just get it out of the way...
Kennedy vs. any of the upper-tiered UFC MW’s.
by John Danaher's Hair on Mar 12, 2011 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
Kennedy vs Stann. They can title UFC ____: America, fuck yeah!!!
by mthom on Mar 12, 2011 5:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
alves would beat cyborg within 4minutes
by BIGNAT on Mar 12, 2011 5:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
But what a gloriously violent 4 minutes that would be…and if Manhoef didn’t overwhelm Cyborg at 205, I don’t know that I agree that it would be such a squash match. I agree Alves is the better fighter, but it would be fun to watch.
by John Danaher's Hair on Mar 12, 2011 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
Cyborg has no back down
Alves doesn’t like when guys come at him, ie GSP.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
I got Sanchez in this one.
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
Diaz Vs Diaz all Diaz action... Losers buys the next QP
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
Mousasi vs Machida. That’s a fight i really want to see.
And King Mo vs Chael, if they could agree on a weight class.
"Who are you and how the hell did you get in here?"
"I'm a locksmith... and i'm a locksmith."
He says he'll fight at 185 for the right money
don’t know if this fight would apply.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
i remember him saying he would go down to lhw when he was at hw
stating i’m a “moneyweight” i don’t think he would dare go that low
Oh yeah
He’s bigger, way more athletic and a way better wrestler.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
The ultimate
We discussed it in a different thread(Nate vs BJ), but they’ve trained together a lot and seem pretty close.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
when have they trained together?
wasn’t aware of that connection…plus, B.J. doesn’t seem to really give a shit about past affiliation.
by John Danaher's Hair on Mar 12, 2011 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
There's a lot of videos on bjpenn.com
with the Diaz bros training in Hilo.
He seems to really admire and like them both.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
They roll together, then afterwards,
they roll together…no beef there…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 13, 2011 1:37 AM EST up reply actions
I doubt Diaz is a keen on the match-up after seeing Penn work his wrestling on Fitch for two rounds.
by Kuroko Shirai on Mar 12, 2011 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
The mere threat can be enough to humble any skilled striker; just ask Anderson Silva.
I don’t doubt it would be part of his gameplan even if its just for the points.
by Kuroko Shirai on Mar 12, 2011 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
I just don't understand your point I guess
BJ can wrestle. Everyone knows that. He was trying to fitch Fitch before Fitch fitched him.
BJ is a warrior, not point fighter. The same for Nick.
They would both want to prove who has the best boxing/BJJ game in MMA.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
by TheFilt on Mar 12, 2011 5:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah,
He was trying to fitch Fitch before Fitch fitched him.
Which was a real Fitch move. But we all know Nick Diaz ain’t know Fitch.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Mar 12, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
BJ-Diaz on the feet...
would be so fascinating…volume punching vs. countering. I’d love to see it.
by John Danaher's Hair on Mar 12, 2011 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
Diaz is a very good counter puncher himself
When he got Cyborg to punch,he rocked him with counters.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
well, he did something more often with counters...
but I don’t know if rocked would be the way I’d characterize it…
by John Danaher's Hair on Mar 12, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
http://www.bjpenn.com/video/diaz-bros-are-back
Diaz bros training with BJ in Hilo
Yes, I really think JDS vs Overeem is much more interesting than some people do.
JDS has good hands, and great power; I’d love if he overwhelmed Alistair and KO’d him. I like both fighters, but I’ve been on the JDS war wagon since I saw him hitting mits on Dana’s blog before the Werdum fight. I called the upset in my mind (couldn’t shake the horrible Werdum/Arlovski fight from memory).
GreenHouse
How about the video footage?
I was thinking today that this means that Zuffa will own a good chunk of the visual history of the sport. UFC footage, PRIDE footage, Strikeforce, and by extension, Elite XC footage now too. Crazy!!
by mthom on Mar 12, 2011 5:01 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Totally! Didn’t even occur to me. I forgot that they had the Affliction footage but how did I miss the WEC? That is a shit-ton of the visual history of this sport. Now they just need Pancrase, Dream and Shooto!
by mthom on Mar 12, 2011 5:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Can't believe the biggest upside to the merger hasn't been mentioned yet:
Nam Phan vs. Cris Cyborg
by John Danaher's Hair on Mar 12, 2011 5:01 PM EST reply actions
My thoughts exactly.
Business as usual my ass. You don’t fucking compete with yourself, the UFC will get who they want as contracts expire.
"When I beat Wanderlei I’m a take his belt, pull his pants down and spank him for being so ugly" - Quinton Jackson
While this is big, exciting news, I'm going to remain agnostic until I see how this is worked out...
@scb0212
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 12, 2011 6:53 PM EST reply actions
That’s why it’s nice for Dana White to be able to snake his hand into Lorenzo Fertitta’s wallet.
Um… having a business partner kicks ass? Or did the guys that collectively own 8 times the amount of Zuffa that Dana does get hoodwinked?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 12, 2011 7:09 PM EST reply actions
Wasn't Lorenzo's wallet either
According to MMA Payout a few weeks ago Zuffa was talking to these guys about capital for “something big behind the scenes” and today well something big happened.
http://unintelligentdefense.blogspot.com
by MattParker117 on Mar 12, 2011 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
Top level
"When I beat Wanderlei I’m a take his belt, pull his pants down and spank him for being so ugly" - Quinton Jackson
Bellator has quite a few top fighters,
look no further than BE’s vaunted Consensus Rankings.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 13, 2011 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Sure, but by Top Level, he means hiring guys like Dan Henderson at 250k per fight… No way Bellator is there, or will be in the next 2-3 years.
Well
I think there’s a difference between top level and elite.
You’re right though, Bellator won’t be paying anyone 6 figures a fight any time soon.
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 13, 2011 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions
The fans and fighters lose
It’s getting to the point of PPV being the only outlet for top end MMA.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
by aaronb on Mar 12, 2011 8:53 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Pay-per-views mean bigger paydays for fighters. The only people who lose are those who are too cheap to actually support the fighters and who cares about them?
by Kuroko Shirai on Mar 12, 2011 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
Please cut the bullshit
Im sick and tired of hearing that. The ufc ppv buys have been on steady up climb over the years. The pay scale hasnt changed one bit for the fighters. Considering how ive seen you post 100 times today and the subject of all your posts. Your making about 75 cents a post from zuffa. Congrats, thats 75 cents more a post than subo.
by chunkyass on Mar 13, 2011 12:33 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Pay scale hasn’t gone up? I wouldn’t be surprised if the average pay of guys fighting in main card slots to be above 50k. Anyone on a 3-4 win streak usually makes above 20k/20k per fight. Compare that to the $2.5k SF just gave to the woman who just fought for a title last weekend…
Damn
Really? That chick only made 2 stacks plus? Fuck that, she might as well get a real job. Making $3000 every couple months to possibly get your shit caved in is fucking insane!
by SentientAndroid on Mar 14, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Eager to see the Strikeforce LWs in the UFC
Can they make Nik Lentz exciting?
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
Barnett didn’t just test positive in the early days, he beat Randy Couture for the belt while juicing. The NSAC needs to get around to reversing that “win” in the record books.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 13, 2011 12:11 AM EST reply actions
Seriously
That “win” gets under my skin to this day. It’s such horseshit.
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on Mar 13, 2011 1:57 AM EST up reply actions
it’s shitty, but if the rules didn’t give them the power to change it back then, they shouldn’t change it now, we’ll just have to remember.
People will forget the context. They always do.
Personally I’d like to see record keeping sites like Fightfinder at least have an asterisk for bad judging if theyre not willing to overrule fight results outright.
by Kuroko Shirai on Mar 13, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Sylvia's win over McGee is still intact
I guess that’s just how they dealt with it back in the day.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 13, 2011 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions
I guess Sherk can keep his win over Franca
Since they were both on the juice…
"With gold thou boughtest Gýmir's daughter,
and so gavest away thy sword:
but when Muspell's sons through the dark forest ride,
thou, unhappy, wilt not have wherewith to fight."
~ Lokasenna
Haha yeah
BATTLE OF TEH ROIDARZ
http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 13, 2011 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Now let do a true world championship grand prix for eahc of the weight classes!!!
more fighters for GSP and the Spider to cut through…
The Reem is coming....
Food goes in here
by Pandanus on Mar 13, 2011 12:37 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
..............back to Japan to kickbox.
"Every time I talk on the phone with someone who doesn’t know me, they call me "ma’am"." - Scott C. Broussard
by Earl Montclair on Mar 13, 2011 12:50 AM EST up reply actions
If they still have a Japan
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Mar 13, 2011 12:51 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
overeem always said he will go to UFC provided they do a good enough deal worth his time, if he sacrifices K-1. now that k1 is almost folded, it’s a 95% possibility
by GracieHunter on Mar 13, 2011 12:52 AM EST up reply actions
He's already won the title
He’s seems intent on making his name in America.
No doubt he would get quite a nice contract with the UFC as well.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
and it will be hard for the UFC to make an offer that is worse than K1s, “win the GP again and we’ll mail you 400k 3 months after the fact again, we’ll really pay this time, promise” deal.
Exactly
Overeem knew the Japan money was drying up, that’s why he’s so eager to get well-known here.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
So long as he gets the money
That was a great move on his part. Not that Reem didn’t deserve the GP title (because he did), but his luck of the draw in the tourney couldn’t have been better. No Badr Hari, Schilt gets taken out by the lumberjack, Saki was beat to hell from his 4 round war with Ghita, Spong didn’t have cardio past the 1’st round, Aerts was tired as hell and a stylistic lock for Alistair.
That K1 belt is a great accomplishment for him, and I’m happy that it all worked out so well for him. In Werdum/ Overeem we have a legitimate HW superfight.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 13, 2011 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
God I hope this happens
Overeem is my second man-crush, right behind GSP. Would hate for him to fall into obscurity.
"Nothing's ever what it seems. And even if it is, ends justify means." -Matt Good
Well
I wouldn’t be surprised if he fought again in Strikeforce. Depending on whether that folds or not, M-1 has a deal worked out as well, so if Fedor keeps fighting post- SF and can’t come to terms with the UFC, then he can always just take cushy matchups on M1 cards until he retires.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 13, 2011 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Everyone involved in MMA, from fans to fighters and announcers are going to suffer from this latest stunt by the UFC.
I’ve been a fan since day 1 and I’ve attended many live UFC events as well as others but I’m slowly losing interest in this sport due to the many wrongs I’ve seen recently from bad decisions to buyouts like this.
Adversity is like a strong wind. It tears away from us all but the things that cannot be torn, so that we see ourselves as we really are.
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