FightLines: UFC Light Heavyweights
RUA <> MACHIDA
BONNAR <> SOSZYNSKI
JACKSON > MACHIDA > EVANS > JACKSON
Confused? Check out the slightly out-of-date FightLines FAQ here!
Jon Jones is making a big leap at UFC 128. A 6-1 record in the UFC (and that "one" is muffled by a loud cough) is not something to dismiss, nor is the manner in which he handled the likes of Ryan Bader, Vladimir Matyushenko, and Brandon Vera. Jones, at 23, made each of these men look like children pinned down and tickled by a sadistic uncle.
I don't doubt that Jones has the talent to compete with Mauricio Rua. A good indication of skill level is the ability to handle lesser competition with an air of pitying contempt. And while I understand the UFC's decision to hand him a title shot -- with Rashad Evans injured and Quinton Jackson unable or unwilling, they had no other choice -- part of me still feels that this is not the optimal career path for Jones.
The UFC has performed an admirable job in its pacing of Jones' career. Jones entered the organization two months shy of his 21st birthday and only four months from his pro debut. Instead of rushing into the temptation of throwing Jones to the wolves, the UFC showed considerable restraint in offering him fights that built upon the last. Each fight represents a step forward. Not a crawl and not a jump, but a solid step forward.
"Shogun" Rua, however, is a leap ahead of Bader or Matyushenko or Vera. He's not a 27-year-old Ultimate Fighter prospect. He's not an aging gatekeeper. Nor is he a symbol of wasted potential. He's the 2005 Pride Middleweight Grand Prix champion. He's the 2005 Fighter of the Year. He's the former and current number one light heavyweight in the world. He's the UFC champion, and he's familiar with the role of being a 23-year-old phenom.
In a perfect world, Jones would be fighting Rich Franklin or Forrest Griffin or Thiago Silva next, guys who hang around the top ten of the division. After that the UFC would pit him against Quinton Jackson or Lyoto Machida or (gasp) Jackson's teammate Rashad Evans. Then the title shot would be in hand.
Sometimes talent just can't wait, though.
A look at the upcoming relevant light heavyweight fights after the jump.
Mauricio Rua vs. Jon Jones @ UFC 128 - Arguments about the career path of Jon Jones, this is a huge fight. Jones opened as a 3-2 favorite, and early line movement has pushed him to a consensus 2-1 favorite among the off-shore books. It's not a conspiracy either, despite what Jones might have you believe. Jones will enjoy a big size advantage (3" in height and 8.5" in reach), and "Shogun" is coming off ten months of rehab after another surgery on his knee. The media is sleeping on the champ, but is it deserved?
Antonio Rogerio Nogueira vs. Phil Davis @ UFC Fight Night 24 - This was originally Tito Ortiz's last "last chance" in the UFC, but a mild concussion and stitches forced him out of the bout, which is a welcome break from the usual post-fight injury excuses that emanate from Ortiz. Davis comes in as a surprising (to some, anyway) 7-2 favorite over the much more experienced Nogueira, who has had issues with wrestlers in his last two fights.
Randy Couture vs. Lyoto Machida @ UFC 129 - Randy Couture gave the UFC an ultimatum: give me Mauricio Rua or Lyoto Machida or I'll retire. The UFC must feel Couture still has value (despite a very poor draw as the main event against Mark Coleman) because here we are. Machida is dealing with a two-fight losing streak, including a close decision against Quinton Jackson in his last fight at UFC 123. A loss to the 47-year-old Couture would be disastrous to his career.
Quinton Jackson vs. Matt Hamill @ UFC 130 - Jackson was scheduled to fight Thiago Silva, but concerns over Silva's UFC 125 drug test forced the UFC to scrap that bout. A rematch with the recently-injured Rashad Evans bandied about the Internet, but the UFC decided to stick Matt Hamill in with Jackson instead. A Jackson win opens a lot of interesting fights: a title shot with the winner of the UFC 128 main event, a rematch with "Shogun" Rua (should he lose), a rematch with Forrest Griffin, or the aforementioned rematch with Rashad Evans. Rematches.
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"like children pinned down and tickled by a masochistic uncle."
I think you mean “sadistic”.
by Verklemptomaniac on Mar 11, 2011 12:11 PM EST reply actions
"There is nothing sadistic in my actions. This is me being my most masochistic."
Bill, its your b-
by Cocytus on Mar 11, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
These always confuse me
Any tips on how to read it?
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
Don’t think too hard about it. I think people try to make them more complicated than they are. It’s easier to explain if you have some more specific questions.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
You know what
Just read the FAQ, didn’t see that before. Makes sense now.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 11, 2011 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
Sadistic, not masochistic
Masochism is when you enjoy pain
Wait a minute?!?
Maybe I need to read the FAQ but here’s food for thought
A. Silva > Dan Henderson > Rich Franklin > Wanderlei Silva
A. Silva > F. Griffin > M. Rua > Rampage Jackson > Chuck Liddell
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
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VEe is ANIMated!
Oh yeah, this is good stuff!
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
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VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Mar 11, 2011 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
Griffin’s win over “Shogun” isn’t counted by the system as it happened over three years ago. Which is crazy to think that Mauricio has been UFC property for that long.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
Jones beats Shogun, GSP beats Shields but in his scaredy cattedness refuses to fight silva...
=> Jones vs Anderson would be pretty epic.
Do I have to write my Senator?
- SOSZYNSKI’s victory over Bonnar isn’t muffled with a cough?!?
- Rampage over Machida isn’t muffled w/ a cough???
- Nor is he a symbol of wasted potential. Damn, although I can not argue with that statement . . . I’m still delusional and think Vera will make a strong come back. Note, withouth ’roids, I think Thiago Silva will still bust that a**. BUT I do think a healthy THiago Silva would stop Rashad Evans but not Lyoto Machida.
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
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VEe is ANIMated!
You mean the Jackson-Machida fight maybe should have been a draw and so it should be dismissed as a reflection of Machida’s track record as quickly as Jones buzzsawing Matt Hamill but then getting himself disqualified by breaking a stupid and rather technical rule?
by Philosophy Pro on Mar 11, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
Bonnar beat Kristoff at 116...so that's why he's on top.
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
George Carlin
Colors are nothing more than an attempt at clarity. Green is the top of a path, blue is the bottom, and yellow is anything in the middle.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
The "I knocked Rashad the F out" Machida will show up against Couture at 129
not the “Im holding back too much and lose a close decision to Rampage” Machida
or the “I want to stand and bang with an expert striker and get KTF out” Machida
by MMA_Revolution on Mar 11, 2011 12:41 PM EST reply actions
BIG STEP UP
that’s what I was thinking. Jones man handled his last three opponents but I wanted him to fight a top five contender before he got a shot at shogun. Jones has major skill but this is a big step up from the old janitor and T.U.F. cast members.
"Rip Rules And All Others Rest In Peace"- Greg "Ranger" Stott moments before getting smashed by "The Smashing Machine."
by lawdawgfightcrew on Mar 11, 2011 12:47 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Who are top 5 though
Rua
Rashad
Rampage
Machida
Forest
Bader has to be next in line, and I think he would beat Forest and probably beat Rashad given size and Rashads style – Jones against Rua, Rampage, and Machida all interest me stylistically, but the rest of the LHW, I think Jones could steam-roll, I believe he would absolutely demolish Forest and Rashad, that is a bad style matchup for Rashad given that outside of on the feet and pure boxing, Jones is better at everything.
Gotta love the 205 class
This division is a mess but is highly entertaining, I really hope Anderson goes up
I think Jones is going to beat Rua and do it quickly, Rua is on a bum leg, and despite looking great against Machida, I am still not impressed with him recently – his style of getting in and striking fast, was tailor made to stifle Machida and he has KO power – the height is going to make the KO shot harder to land, and Jones is going to tie him up, and put him on his back – and if he moves into side control – I think this will be a short night for Rua, look what he did to the janitor, and that guy is a world class wrestler, Rua isn’t that good at getting out from under a dominant wrestler, Hamil wasn’t, and Vera is similar in style and has better greco, and they all were man-handled
Jones against Rampage is interesting style wise, Machida is interesting and could be jones biggest hurdle style wise, and Anderson Silva could very well beat everyone in that division after watching what he did to the former champ in Forest – theres so many good matchups at 205 ahead in the next year, and with a Phil Davis win, his time in the spot-light could come early next year.
HA!! Jones will absolutely NOT beat Rua quickly, definitely not in the 1st round. We're talking about SHOGUN!
Dana White said, if Silva wants to fight in the LHW division, where two friends and training partners compete, he has to give up the middleweight title.
Anderson Silva said he will not simply give up the title, he wants some one to beat him and win the title.
It sucks but Silva will not compete in the 205 division with Machida and Nogueira aiming for the title. Note Machida would face Noguiera.
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
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VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Mar 11, 2011 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
Damnit
yeah I forgot all about Lil’ Nog. The chances of him having to fight either one of those guys would be pretty high as well, and he wouldn’t do that, he doesn’t have to, BUT he could pop up once or twice more and hinder the ascension of other viable contenders to help clear a path for Lyoto and little Nog lol.
by SentientAndroid on Mar 11, 2011 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
BUT he could pop up once or twice more
Only with Dana White’s OK. Personally I’m ready for Silva vs Rampage . . . it would be worse than Machida’s 3rd round domination.
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
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VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Mar 11, 2011 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
haha yeah man, but you must really not like Rampage? I like Page, and I woudn’t want to see him get beat the same way that Andy beat Forrest. And just looking at how awfully slow Page was against Rashad, I’d say he has no chance of beating Anderson. Now that I think about it though, it would be a nice fight with a guaranteed ko/tko on either side (but more than likely on Silva’s side).
by SentientAndroid on Mar 11, 2011 6:05 PM EST up reply actions
you didnt forget lil nog.
You just happened to remember he has a fight in a couple weeks that he has no shot at winning so lil nog is going to fall in ranks some more.
by psuwrestler99 on Mar 12, 2011 6:50 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Everytime I see the opinion that Jones isn't ready for Shogun
and that he’s still a “hype train,” I just laugh. I have no energy left to argue. This guy has DEMOLISHED the competition, including three of the strongest people in the division. He won’t need the polished striking. Rua is coming off yet another layoff due to yet another knee injury. He isn’t superhuman.
The biggest test will be either Rampage or Evans, if those fights happen. How quickly we forget that Shogun is 4 fights removed from a sub loss to Griffin and 3 from nearly being decisioned by MARK COLEMAN.
At first glance, it seemed that way. Upon second read, no. It seems that you’re more implying that you’d rather see him against a proven top 5er.
by Austin Martin on Mar 11, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
If Jones wins, he'll be the legit #1, so the rest of the top 5ers will come to him in time.
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
George Carlin
3 of the strongest in the division???
Really?…………..really?
Absolutely. I would certainly say that about Matyushenko, Hamill, and Bader.
by Austin Martin on Mar 11, 2011 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
Remember the Machida era? Unstopable, perfect timing, unhitable etc etc … Jones has demolished some decent competition but he hasn’t fought anyone near the caliber of Shogun. I want Jones to lose because I’m such a big fan of his. I want him to get that legitimate first loss just so he doesn’t think he’s unstoppable and it makes him even hungrier. He and Aldo are the two best prospects in MMA and sometimes a loss can be the best thing for you in that situation. You learn more from defeat sometimes.
by Johnnynumber5 on Mar 11, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
Also, this is probably the best time for him to get a loss
by Shaun32887 on Mar 11, 2011 3:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
perhaps this is a redundant q.
but why do you have no options for what a Hamill win would mean?
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
Maybe because the thought of Hammil beating Rampage is that unlikely? Jon Jones (yes I know he technically won) and Rich Franklin both utterly destroyed Matt Hammil. Matt has looked good in wins against mid tier talent like Munoz, Tito, Jardine and Bisping (yes I know he technically lost) but it seems when he really takes that big step up in opponent he has nothing for them.
What do you think a Hammil win does for his career? I doubt it puts him in the mix for the title. Rampage isn’t getting knocked out or submitted so itd probably be by decision. I just don’t see Hammil having what it takes to fight someone like ’Page.
by Johnnynumber5 on Mar 11, 2011 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
how many times have we heard it said
‘this is mma’
and anything can happen, sure – no one thinks its likely that Hamill can win, but if Page’s wrestling isn’t where it should be for whatever reason then you have to at least think Hamill has a shot.
as to where he goes if he were to win, I agree with you, he would still be a win or two away from the top (perhaps they give him the winner of Couture/Machida as a no.1 contender fight), but i was more querying why Fagan doesn’t even feel the need to speculate on even the possibility of a Hamill win, just seems a bit lame.
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
Is it just me...
… or is it not time for alex gustafsson to step up in competition? Vs bonnar perhaps?
He, like many other non-americans, ran into the wrestling wall in Phil Davis, but apart from that he dominated his other opponents.
Bonnar vs Gustafsson makes all the sense in the world to me. The winner of such a bout would be ready to take on a game opponent of Griffin calibre.
by jespitos on Mar 11, 2011 2:26 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I don't see any lines coming and going for Machida/Lyoto
Is it because they both have a win over each other that cancels out or something?
The chart is pretty cool, I wouldn’t mind making one for one of the other weight classes, but I’m not very familiar with the “lesser” names.
by SentientAndroid on Mar 11, 2011 2:39 PM EST reply actions
I'll assume you mean Rua/Machida
There are a few circuits in the fightlines; Fagan outlines them with
RUA <> MACHIDA
BONNAR <> SOSZYNSKI
JACKSON > MACHIDA > EVANS > JACKSON
This means that Rua and Machida are 1 and 1, Bonnar and Sozynski are 1 and 1, and Jackson beat Machida who beat Evans who beat Jackson. None of these circuits count in the fightlines.
Ok thanks
and yeah I meant Machida/Shogun lol
by SentientAndroid on Mar 11, 2011 6:01 PM EST up reply actions

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