Georges St. Pierre Versus Anderson Silva Is Bad For the Sport
by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 10, 2011 8:05 PM EST
in UFC Editorial
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I've often been accused of being a contrarian. Someone who writes things just to stir the pot, who looks for the consensus and goes the opposite way. Nothing could be further from the truth. I would love, for once, to be on the popular side of the issue of the day. To bask in the adulation I can only assume comes to those with safe, conventional, and dull opinions.
Alas, that's not my lot in life. My mind spins too fast for that. I can only share what I think and it's this: the Georges St. Pierre versus Anderson Silva superfight sucks. It's a ludicrous money grab that has nothing to do with sport, an affront to a great fighter's potential legacy, and I'm glad that it appears St. Pierre is having second thoughts about being pushed into a fight that doesn't suit him.
Look at the picture above. Seriously, just settle your gaze on it for a moment. Now answer honestly: do these men belong in the cage together? St. Pierre is four inches shorter and at least 35 pounds lighter than the "Spider." And forget what you think Royce Gracie taught us back at UFC 1 - size most definitely matters.
They invented weight classes for a reason. It's simple science, but David messed that up for everyone with his upset of Goliath. All things being equal, the bigger guy is going to win a fight. Not every time, but enough of the time that it isn't fair to judge a smaller man by his performance against a larger foe.
It wasn't always this way. In the ancient Greek Olympics, weight classes didn't exist. Of course, the Greeks also believed Athena sprung from Zeus's head, that the body was made of four humors, and all matter consisted of four elements (water, fire, earth, and air). Besides - if the work of Frank Miller has taught me anything, the Greeks also walked around in loin cloths, indiscriminately kicked people into giant holes of unknown origin, and shouted a lot. Are you really going to trust those guys to make this important decision for us?
St. Pierre is the best fighter in the world at 170 pounds. Why can't we enjoy him for that? Isn't that enough? He's an average sized welterweight. At middleweight, he would be downright small, even if he devoted six months to putting on 30 pounds of lean muscle. Why are we pushing him into a no win situation? Some will criticize him; they'll call him a coward for not risking his health, reputation, and professional legacy on a fight with a much bigger man. For once, perhaps it will be best to ignore the unwashed masses.
No one demanded "Sugar" Ray Leonard move up to fight Evander Holyfield or Michael Spinks. We simply marveled at his skill and panache. We should be celebrating St. Pierre the same way, watching in awe as he dismantles like-size men. It's a thing of beauty. And if the numbers can be trusted, it's working. St. Pierre has made his mark with the fans. He will pack tens of thousands of fans into Toronto's Sky Dome. Hundreds of thousands, maybe even a million more, will watch at home on pay per view. Why fix what isn't broken.
Anderson Silva and Georges St. Pierre are the best fighters of all time. But that doesn't mean they need to face each other in the cage. They can exist simultaneously, each vanquishing his foes in the appropriate weight class. This is a sport. We should demand sustained excellence. Demanding two men of disparate size square off isn't sport - it's spectacle. And we are better than that.
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GSP walk around weight =~ 190 pounds
Silva walkaround weight =~ 220 pounds
lol?
by castleeb on Mar 10, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think you’re low-balling Silva too.
by sgiblin on Mar 10, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You're forgetting:
Silva doesn’t do Rush-Fit regularly.
by casey manrique on Mar 10, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Dude
Be like water..
by theredoctober on Mar 10, 2011 6:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Dude
I did rushfit once, I got two whole rounds out then ran to the shower while my gf finished the workout, came & let me know I was a pussy then went for a run around the block. That was 4 days ago & my quads are still aching!
Be like water..
by theredoctober on Mar 10, 2011 7:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
walk around weight is meaningless
you can’t cut 35 lbs of water. so no, a 35lb gap is a ridiculous claim
by yngjzy on Mar 10, 2011 11:14 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Can you cut 15 lbs of water and 15 lbs of fat? You’re assuming that’s all water weight.
by sgiblin on Mar 10, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It's not like Andy is stacked. But when him and Forrest fought they looked like the same weight class even though Forrest walk around at 240 or whatever.
Doesn't want it with Duece
by doonerthesooner on Mar 10, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Your point?
I think you’re proving the point that Silva has about 35 lbs on GSP.
by sgiblin on Mar 10, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe RIGHT NOW
It’s the weight in the cage that matters. You’re not cutting 15 pounds of fat in a day, that happens in training camp. If they were going to fight at 185, assuming GSP weighed in at 185, Silva would not have 35 pounds or anywhere close to that on GSP.
by Pantherhare on Mar 10, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Rumble walks around north of 230, does that somehow have meaning?
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Right
Simply using him to point out what should be obvious – so-called “walking around weight” means absolutely nothing in regards to MMA.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 11:36 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
All that matters is what the men weigh in the cage/ ring. And really, if they blow up after fights and have to lose a ton of weight, that’s to their detriment, and makes it harder on them.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 11, 2011 7:39 AM EST up reply actions
Can we put this myth to bed?
They may have looked similar volume-wise, but Forrest looked dehydrated as hell while Anderson had a lot of fluid in his muscles. You just knew that Forrest was going to rehydrate to a massive size while Anderson had little “room for improvement.”
Well you don't gain back the fat weight the next day, so you can't really count that weight, can you?
So what if Silva gets fat in between fights. Some people are delusional if they think Anderson is going to fight at 230 lbs. Why even mention his walking around weight when “fight” weight is all that matters. GSP is 195 ripped and he fights at WW a couple lbs lighter. He will be close to 200 lbs ripped and Silva will be at the max 210 lbs (Silva isn’t cutting more than 25 lbs water) and still softer than GSP. GSP’s great wrestling will easily nullify those extra 10 lbs. The only thing GSP has to worry about is Silvas deadly striking, not his 10 extra lbs. Silva also has to worry about getting mauled like Sonnen did to him, because that is what GSP is going to do. Alves is +200 lbs and likely stronger than Silva and that didn’t stop GSP from taking him down at will. Alves even has better TD defence. Silva doesn’t look the same size as Forrest when he fights at MW, so it’s irrelevant.
GSP’s walk around weight is just over 200lbs and he’s still hellishly lean.
Silva balloons up to 235 sometimes, but gets a gut in the process.
Either way, I’m sure that some of the people arguing against this fight due to weight difference are some of the same people who say that Fedor’s “crap” because he’s absolutely dwarfed by Bigfoot (and Werdum) and lost to them. Fedor would weigh less than GSP does if he was that lean.
by papardelle fettucine on Mar 10, 2011 8:17 PM EST up reply actions
Seriously.
Anderson is not a huge middleweight, GSP is not a huge welterweight. They could meet at a 177.5 catchweight, and the size difference would be mitigated.
This fight really does nothing for you, Snowden? Our sports 2 best fighters right now, who have all but cleaned out their divisions, and really aren’t that different in size, who match up very well stylistically… that doesn’t interest you even a little bit?
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Anderson is a huge MW
And look at the photo they are not close to the same size. Not saying it wouldn’t have potential to be a great fight, but I think Andy takes it pretty convincingly.
Doesn't want it with Duece
by doonerthesooner on Mar 10, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Look, here’s the thing with Anderson – his frame is fucking huge, so he looks big even nex to LHW’s, but he’s not as solidly built as GSP. GSP is all lean muscle. They’re not as different size-wise as a two-dimensional photo might make you think.
by crazybones on Mar 10, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
(but yes, Anderson would have a big size advantage when it comes to reach and stuff like that)
by crazybones on Mar 10, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hmm...
Aren’t their reaches actually similar? For some reason I think I remember seeing their reach numbers and being surprised how close it is.
"I am going to punch faces." --Wanderlei Silva
War Miller Bros.
Anderson Silva – 77.6"
GSP – 76.0"
But that can be deceptive given how they measure reach.
None more gangster.
Tweeter!
They measure wingspan. One of them could have enormously long fingers which doesn’t mean a thing when it comes to actual reach.
".He still has a ground game that seems heavily dependent on lying still and hoping that his opponent won't notice his very kimura-able arm..."
by dancingChicken on Mar 10, 2011 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
Come on dude.
Really long fingers? Seriously?
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not saying that one of them has really long fingers, but with that particular method of measuring reach (wingspan) you could get distorted results because of long fingers :)
".He still has a ground game that seems heavily dependent on lying still and hoping that his opponent won't notice his very kimura-able arm..."
by dancingChicken on Mar 10, 2011 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
Well, you could...
but I just don’t see that really playing a factor. GSP’s reach is almost as big as Silva’s because he has very broad shoulders. Anderson’s arms are definitely longer.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
Anderson is not a huge middleweight.
The man used to fight at 170, and weighed in at 182 against Leites. He looks no different at 205 than he does at 185, just like he didn’t diet or cut any water weight.
Here’s a picture I used in another thread, illustrating this:
Feijao is SO much bigger than Anderson. And Galvao isn’t that much smaller than him. Anderson is definitely a natural middleweight, and not even a huge one at that.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Here's a photo to support your argument
but to be fair, Anderson is standing behind both those guys on the pic you posted.
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 10, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
His chest is filled in
and his core is fuller. Other than that he is pretty much the same.
"Clay "The Missing Link" Guida!!!"
by Adamantium007 on Mar 10, 2011 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
Also he’s better at reflecting light.
by crazybones on Mar 10, 2011 12:25 PM EST up reply actions 14 recs
lol
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 10, 2011 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
And pwning former light heavyweight champions.
"Clay "The Missing Link" Guida!!!"
by Adamantium007 on Mar 10, 2011 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
thats very good
that is…
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
Not really...
just looks like he ate at McDonalds, and put on some baby oil.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
It simply shows the reality – that it is additional dieting down to near 185 that makes the difference. You can see more definition when you are leaner, which gives the illusion of being larger.
Of course, the different lighting and that the two images are not to exactly the same scale also affects it…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
I really think
That Anderson just eats whatever he want when he fights at 205. And he doesn’t have to cut any water, either.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
Anderson gets to his fighting weight via diet and training throughout camp. He is said to get in the 220s between fights (pre-camp), but he doesn’t cut any appreciable amount of weight in the dehydration/rehydration sense, unless they have been lying all along about it, for no reason whatsoever.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
I hear that all the time
But have never actually heard Anderson or his camp talk about his walking around weight.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
Bleh
Really hate the phrase “walking around weight.” Can we please change it to “In Cage Weight” or something.
I do recall that Anderson or his team mentioned before the Maia fight that he was only about 190 a full week out from the fight.
I don't like it either.
The only weight that matters is what they make at the weigh ins, and what they weigh in the ring/ cage.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly, "walking around weight" is utterly meaningless here...
From a Michael Rome article prior to the Maia fight on BE here:
He noted on the Countdown, filmed nearly two weeks ago, that he was already down to 192 and would be 185 before even getting on the plane to Abu Dhabi.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
It's THREE different weights, though
In-cage weight is more than weigh-in weight, but can still be lower than their “normal” or “walking around” weight between fights. Rampage Jackson reportedly gets close to 250 between fights. That’s not his in-cage weight, which is probably closer to 220 after his weigh-in at 205.
"Don't be intimidated by other teams. You guys got bubble gum cards, too. Let's go." - Buck Showalter
Yeah
I doubt these guys are putting on any more than 15 lbs. on the day of the fight. Maybe 20 for guys who cut to 265.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 11, 2011 7:41 AM EST up reply actions
Rec'd
This is a great picture, especially for people who seem to think all size difference equates to is height and reach. In reality, where and how you pack on mass is really what comes into play.
As this picture illustrates, Anderson puts on lean mass, and very evenly, all around his body. No matter what; 6 weeks, 6 months, 9 months, 1 year, GSP can train his ass off and would still come into the fight with a significant and noticable size disadvantage.
"If at first you don't succeed, destroy all the evidence that you tried"
No matter what; 6 weeks, 6 months, 9 months, 1 year, GSP can train his ass off and would still come into the fight with asignificant and noticableperceived size disadvantage
Fixed it for you, unless by size you meant height, which will not change…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
GSP would be shorter, have less reach, and be outweighed by more than 10lbs...
How is that only perceived?
"If at first you don't succeed, destroy all the evidence that you tried"
As a WW, GSP enters the cage at 192+. As a MW, Anderson enters the cage somewhere between 185 (“will get off the plane at 185”) and 192 (what he weighed 2 weeks+ out from Maia).
At a CW, if anything, GSP will be the heavier fighter, although Anderson retains his height (4") and reach (1.5") advantages.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
You are downplaying size advantage, calling it perceived only...
yet say a catchweight would be best. Let’s just stop here, because we both agree on something now. ;)
"If at first you don't succeed, destroy all the evidence that you tried"
I think a CW is best because it doesn’t affect what each fighter does in his own weight class, doesn’t risk tying up two titles and it gives both sets of fans something to cling to after a loss…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
As a MW, Anderson enters the cage somewhere between 185 ("will get off the plane at 185") and 192 (what he weighed 2 weeks+ out from Maia).
No one believes this.
by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 10, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
You set the example, by mentioning bullshit like a 30 lb weight difference between the two.
by TheRage on Mar 10, 2011 2:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This was said prior to the Maia fight, although I don’t automatically believe (or disbelieve) Soares, what possible motivation would he have for lying about this?
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
But it was on the internet
so it must be true!
"Don't be intimidated by other teams. You guys got bubble gum cards, too. Let's go." - Buck Showalter
I don’t see how that is hard to believe. There is a UFC video blog from a few months after his Forrest fight (and sometime before Maia fight) and he was still only 207.
Its hard to believe because people will believe what they want to believe, facts be damned…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah,
apparently Snowde’s opinion of how big Anderson is > what Anderson and his trainers actually say that he weighs.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 11, 2011 7:43 AM EST up reply actions
Well
I’ll give you that 10-15 lbs. is noticeable/ significant. But holding the fight at catchweight mitigates that size difference.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
I'm a girl so I can say this without "sounding gay."
But I think all the weight is in his pants. ZING!
Its okay...
half of the guys around here were thinking that anyway…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
That picture
There’s no way Anderson isn’t wearing a cup. Either that or he’s very happy to see us…
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 11, 2011 7:45 AM EST up reply actions
you are assuming they were in the picture together in that picture
probably shopped together
He was similar in size to Forrest who is a monster LHW.
by NO82 on Mar 10, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Forrest is quite a bit bigger.
Anderson is an inch shorter than Forrest, but trust me- Forrest is HUGE. I’ve trained at Xtreme Couture and have seen that man walking around with his shirt off… he’s built like a silverback.
Anderson might’ve looked similar in size at the weigh ins because Griffin was sapped of his water. I guarantee you that Forrest had 15-20 lbs on him in the cage.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Right and we saw how that fight ended.
I've got something to say; it better to burn out than to fade away!!!
Wandy, Hendo, Vitor and Chael; the Berlin Wall of the Middle Weight top 10. Spitting, sensitive, sandy Brits (MB) need not apply.
Nerdsole Wars; X Box 4 life.
by dandeman on Mar 10, 2011 12:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't see what your point is.
Forrest and GSP are completely different fighters.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
No I was agree with you
Eventhough Silva was the smaller fighter he took it to Forrest and defeated him in very quick fashion.
I've got something to say; it better to burn out than to fade away!!!
Wandy, Hendo, Vitor and Chael; the Berlin Wall of the Middle Weight top 10. Spitting, sensitive, sandy Brits (MB) need not apply.
Nerdsole Wars; X Box 4 life.
by dandeman on Mar 10, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
If I am right Forrest could fight at Heavy Weight, hell he towered over Franklin
I've got something to say; it better to burn out than to fade away!!!
Wandy, Hendo, Vitor and Chael; the Berlin Wall of the Middle Weight top 10. Spitting, sensitive, sandy Brits (MB) need not apply.
Nerdsole Wars; X Box 4 life.
by dandeman on Mar 10, 2011 12:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Gotcha man
and I agree. Size isn’t as big of a factor as people are making it out to be.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, it really REALLY depends on your fighting style.
Size helps, for example, people who use wrestling to apply top control, or lean on guys in the clinch use their size as an advantage. Think Brock, Fitch, etc.
I agree
Forrest didn’t put his size or weight advantage into play against Ando. He got lured into brawling, and deftly knocked the hell out for his troubles.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Rich was the biggest MW in town for a long time and Andy was much bigger than him when they fought.
Doesn't want it with Duece
by doonerthesooner on Mar 10, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Anderson was taller by a bit
Not really bigger. Anderson’s lanky, Rich is pretty thick with muscle.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Agree, Franklin is a bigger guy and I thought Forest was massive, he was just so much slower
I agree though, this fight if it happens, shouldn’t be at 185. Silva isn’t the largest in the class, but he is big, GSP going up and having to fight the likes of Sonnen and that size wrestler, given his style, he can’t win
a catch weight is the solution for this fight, but GSP is not big enough to sustain a career at middleweight. GSP is 5-10, the only champ the UFC has had in recent history, at 185 and over that is under 6ft is Rashad Evans, he beat Forest and then lost – height and reach matter and so does size and GSP belongs at 170
I agree
GSP does not have a good frame for middleweight. He’s perfect at welterweight. Not too lanky, not too stocky. And it works very well for his style.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
Rich had the glamour muscles but even he said so himself that once Andy got the plum he hadn't ever felt anyone that strong like that before.
Some of that is because Andy thinks kicking palm trees is fun but some of it is that Andy is deceptively strong.
Doesn't want it with Duece
by doonerthesooner on Mar 10, 2011 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
I think if you were to put those guys under a barbell in any lift or with a tire – Franklin is the stronger guy
Silva knows what he is doing, look at his body control and clinch work in that fight and to setup those knees – strength and skill and the use of leverage, all can blur
I wrestled a long time, and there are lighter and weaker guys, who just knew how to use leverage and could toss me – same for me and bigger guys – Silva knows what he is doing and is more skilled than Franklin
He's strong,
but Anderson is just superior in the thai clinch. Years of neck wrestling with guys like Pele, Wand, Shogun, Feijao, Nog bros, etc has developed his strength and technique from the neck clinch.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
Randy said that Forrest is 225 lbs in the cage, so it’s not as much as people say.
".He still has a ground game that seems heavily dependent on lying still and hoping that his opponent won't notice his very kimura-able arm..."
by dancingChicken on Mar 10, 2011 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
As it is, GSP and Anderson Silva weigh wihin five to ten of each other on fight night
During the UFC 112 ppv call Joe Rogan said that Anderson Silva told him he was 192 lbs before he cut weight for that bout. Do you think Anderson Silva fooled Rogan into believing he only cut 7 lbs for that bout? If not, 7 lbs is a very modest weight cut for middleweight. Silva only gets up to 230 lbs on his off training when he’s enjoying junk food. When he’s training for a fight he gets down to about 192 lbs before his weight cut to 185lbs. Chael Sonnen had a much larger weight cut for UFC 117 as he is large middleweight with a lot of muscle mass. Anderson Silva has stated in interviews that he eats chocolates flying over to the US to compete while his next opponent is usually following a restricted diet by that time. The fact that Anderson doesn’t cut a large amount of weight at middleweight is one reason he’s so successful. His energy is not as depleted in the first round or the fifth due to dehydration. Don’t forget Silva has fought at 170 lbs before and he was hinting at dropping back down to 170 lbs at UFC 112.
After facing Thiago Alves’ strength at UFC 100, GSP started an olympic power lifting regimen. He now walks around at a minimum of 190 lbs, probably more. GSP cuts at least 20 lbs to make welterweight. I think this would probably put him among the largest welterweight athletes. You can probably count on one hand the welterweights who cut 20 plus lbs. If they both met at a catch weight of 177.5 lbs rest assured that GSP would definitely have more muscle mass and be stronger. GSP has a reach advantage on most welterweights also. He has a reach advantage on many middleweights (like Sonnen) at 76 inches. Anderson only has a 1.5 inch reach advantage. GSP should be able to negate that advantage.
A height or reach advantage is something all champions have to overcome eventually. Just because someone has a better height or reach doesn’t mean they’ll dominate their opponent. Otherwise, Stefan “Skyscraper” Struve would have been heavyweight champ a long time ago.
If GSP’s strategy is avoid match ups against opponents with better height and/or reach than he’ll have to avoid: Anthony Johnson, Mike Swick, Rory MacDonald, Carlos Condit, Nate Diaz, Dong Hyun Kim, DaMarques Johnson, Matt Riddle, and Matt Brown. All of them compete at 170 lbs.
by True MMA Fan on Mar 10, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions 12 recs
Well put,
and correct…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
ha, I was drafting the below post when you posted this
"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.
by The Darkness on Mar 10, 2011 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
Too funny...
at least I didn’t say essentially what you said just before you clicked “post” – I have had that happen before…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
I find this size topic interesting if only as an illustration of how resistant people are to addressing evidence that runs contrary to initial acquired beliefs. Also of the legion of Silva fans and the many other posters who only trust their own ability to perceive physical differences (or what Joe Rogan tells them), I only recall one person actually ever trying to rebut or contextualized what Silva said prior to the Maia fight about how much he weighed.
"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.
by The Darkness on Mar 10, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
“Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts.”
-Henry Rosovsky-Harvard
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.”
-Stephen W. Hawking
And, my personal favorite which will answer your question some time ago and catch the attention of dancingChicken:
“All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.”
-Arthur Schopenhauer
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
It’s a nice quote, but why should it catch my attention? :)
".He still has a ground game that seems heavily dependent on lying still and hoping that his opponent won't notice his very kimura-able arm..."
by dancingChicken on Mar 10, 2011 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
Thought it might remind you of someone from a previous discussion…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
Sonnen? Whatever it was I'm still violently opposed to it:)
But seriously, I don’t remember a thing…although I assume that it has something to do with you being right about the outcome of the fight and me being wrong. Correct?
".He still has a ground game that seems heavily dependent on lying still and hoping that his opponent won't notice his very kimura-able arm..."
by dancingChicken on Mar 11, 2011 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
No, it was some time ago, where there were comments back and forth as we both were misspelling Arthur Schopenhauer’s name in a sig line in various ways.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 11, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
Haha, now I remember. I tried to be a smart ass and came off as a fool :)
".He still has a ground game that seems heavily dependent on lying still and hoping that his opponent won't notice his very kimura-able arm..."
by dancingChicken on Mar 11, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
At the end of the day, I think we both did…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 11, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Good post
It’s interesting that no one bothered responding to this post because everything in it is spot on and flies in the face of the prevailing wisdom, which is that Silva is a giant that would somehow squash GSP if they fought. It is very clear that you cannot rebut misconceptions with facts (or at least what you understand the facts to be based on things that, e.g., Anderson Silva has said about how much he weighs on fight night or shortly before fight night), and even though there have probably been 100 posts to this effect (at least 50 of which were written by me or the AmericanRonin), which have gone unrebutted, you still have MMA bloggers and putative hardcore fans repeating the same tired misconceptions about the size discrepancy between GSP and Silva.
"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.
by The Darkness on Mar 10, 2011 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
And they still haven’t…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
I'm glad someone said it
Maybe not so much bad for the sport but bad for Georges St. Pierre. And this isn’t any biasness for Silva, I’d prefer GSP.
They made a video game about Yakuzas. It’s called Yakuza. And it’s about Yakuza
gocyborg.wordpress.com
by Krimson on Mar 10, 2011 11:06 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
It's bad for the sport
if GSP gets his ass kicked and loses his appeal to the casual fan of being unbeatable. Plus we would lose him for a year at least to gain the muscle and what happens if he cant compete at MW cause he is too small. TBH, I don’t see him beating a big MW cause they can just hold him down on strength alone
by MPDevils on Mar 10, 2011 11:17 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I agree except for it being bad for the sport. You still have all the other fighters that will distract us from GSP. And knowing the UFC they’ll keep tabs on him and hype it up with vlogs and Spike TV specials showing his progress of bulking up.
As for him losing, I think it’ll just catapault Silva into another G.O.A.T. debate. St. Pierre will still be that belovedly chiseled WW champion that we’ve grown to adore for all these years. Just lost to a better man.
They made a video game about Yakuzas. It’s called Yakuza. And it’s about Yakuza
gocyborg.wordpress.com
by Krimson on Mar 10, 2011 11:27 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, this will probably happen. The Roy Jones Jr syndrome. GSP is just too small.
by King Koopa on Mar 10, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
sport is fickle – Silva at 205 against Rua or Jones, especially if Jones wins, that is just as big a fight – if Silva wins, it cements his legacy, if Jones wins, MMA has its own Mike Tyson, a young indestructible and devastating fighter
Anderson wants no part of Jones
And has said so. The Shogun fight is intriguing, but I don’t even think Anderson would want that fight much anyway. They used to train together, and it’s really not necessary.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
GSP is very strong, and would only get stronger moving up to MW. He fights 190ish as a WW. Sonnen, post TRT was 207 in the cage against Anderson.
Assuming he adds 15-18 pounds of lean mass, GSP still isn’t going to look like Paul Harris or Nate Marquardt, but he isn’t the largest WW either.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
Yes.
This fight is bad for only one person: GSP. I am sure team Jackson has a magic Banana for this one too?
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Mar 10, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Thank You Mr. Snowden!!!
St. Pierre is the best fighter in the world at 170 pounds. Why can’t we enjoy him for that? Isn’t that enough? He’s an average sized welterweight. At middleweight, he would be downright small, even if he devoted six months to putting on 30 pounds of lean muscle. Why are we pushing him into a no win situation
I have been saying this since the first mention of this match up. I have no desire to see this match. I enjoy watching GSP cement his legacy at 170 lbs,
"Cancel my subscription to the resurrection, send my credentials to the house of detention" - Jim Morrison
by LRaunThaDamaja on Mar 10, 2011 11:07 AM EST reply actions 23 recs
Rec'd so that ppl will see this
They made a video game about Yakuzas. It’s called Yakuza. And it’s about Yakuza
gocyborg.wordpress.com
by Krimson on Mar 10, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah man!
I’d much rather watch GSP fight Jake Shields, who looked completely flat against Kampmann, or rematch Fitch, BJ, Koscheck, Alves, etc.
Get real. I’d much rather see GSP fight Anderson, and let his division sort out a deserving challenger in the meantime.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
So when Anderson walks through GSP
then what will be of Rush’s legacy. Something akin to Emmit Smith in a Cardinals uniform or Willie Mays as a Met? Why risk it if it’s not neccesary.
"Cancel my subscription to the resurrection, send my credentials to the house of detention" - Jim Morrison
by LRaunThaDamaja on Mar 10, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Exactly. He’s a millionaire on the rise. Why risk it?
by sgiblin on Mar 10, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
"When Anderson walks through GSP"?
It’s funny to me that people think Ando would trounce Georges. Every single one of Ando’s losses, or tough spots in his career have been on the ground.
GSP has the best takedowns in MMA, and lockdown top control to boot. Not to mention very solid fundamental striking, great timing, and brilliant transitions. I would honestly pick him to BEAT Anderson.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 11, 2011 7:48 AM EST up reply actions
When Tyson mowed through every heavyweight in the world...
..was anyone yelling for him to drop down to light heavy?
Or was watching a monster destroy all comers really freaking enjoyable?
Koscheck has frosted tips.
Well,
Mike unified the titles at a point when the HW division was quite weak. GSP and Anderson have ran train on their divisions at a time when they’re the strongest they’ve ever been. And they’re not that far apart in size!
Also, not to be nitpicky, but Tyson would’ve dropped to CRUISERWEIGHT (200), not Light Heavyweight (175). Tyson was a rock solid 220, there’s no way he could’ve made 175.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 11, 2011 7:53 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Why are we pushing him into a no win situation?
Are you kidding me? If GSP does win (he won’t) then he is without a doubt the best fighter in the world. His already stacked fan base will only increase. This comes with pay raise, fame, legacy etc. I have a desire to see this match for the same reason I want to see Anderson box Roy Jones Jr. I am a fight fan. Do I think it’s the right move? Absolutely not. Saying you have a desire to watch him smash Kos and Fitch for a third time is absurd.
"Clay "The Missing Link" Guida!!!"
by Adamantium007 on Mar 10, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
aying you have a desire to watch him smash Kos and Fitch for a third time is absurd.
Who’s saying that? It’s the UFC’s job to provide challenges to their champs. Why do we expect the champ to stack the odds against themselves? For what? Like James Toney said “You got Hall of Famers with 16-10 records in MMA” And all this fight would be is a L on GSP record and an unnecessary L at that.
"Cancel my subscription to the resurrection, send my credentials to the house of detention" - Jim Morrison
by LRaunThaDamaja on Mar 10, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I am not disputing the fact
That he will probably lose and the loss is ultimately unnecessary to prove he is a great (maybe the best) welterweight. The UFC has done a satisfactory job in providing sufficient challenges however…All I am saying is I want to see the fight to satiate curiosity. I don’t think he should do it, I don’t think he would win, but GSP is one of the best athletes in the world. If he wins, he wins a lifetime achievement at the age of (however old GSP is),
"Clay "The Missing Link" Guida!!!"
by Adamantium007 on Mar 10, 2011 12:15 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
So while it's the UFC's job to provide challenges for the champs...
it’s yours to protect their legacy? I’m glad that you think that your opinion is worth more than the large number of MMA dans dying to see this fight. Bob Sapp was spectacle. James Toney was spectacle. This is a fight between the 2 most skilled fighters in the world who will have a smaller weight discrepancy between them than many HW fights that we often see. As a fan, I want to see this fight, but I also understand if GSP would decline it. I’m cool with either outcome- the arguments that say that this fight would be “bad for the sport” or that GSP somehow owes us, the fans this fight, are as ludicrous as you using a James Toney quote to support your MMA argument.
by John Danaher's Hair on Mar 10, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
I have a desire to see this match for the same reason I want to see Anderson box Roy Jones Jr. I am a fight fan
As a lifelong fan of boxing and (obviously) a huge MMA fan, that does not interest me at all.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 10, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Insert Fighter A that you like vs. Fighter B that you like.
The names are arbitrary to my point.
"Clay "The Missing Link" Guida!!!"
by Adamantium007 on Mar 10, 2011 12:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Why isn’t there the push for Anderson to go up – he fought and beat the former champ – as convincingly as can be done
There is a bigger gap in size between 170 and 185 than there is between 185 and 205
Look at the heights and frame – how many 170 guys have had success at 185?
how many guys over 6ft tall are at 170?
guys commonly go between 185 and 205 – Anderson Silva can, Hendo, Franklin, Sonnen – these guys have all fought and had success at both weights – who has had success at multiple weights at 170 and 185?
I still think
Rua vs. Anderson would be an amazing fight. Truly amazing fight between two very gifted strikers. The push isn’t there because frankly Rua hasn’t yet defended his title and has a very spotty record. Once he beats Jon Jones and another contender there will probably be another surge of requests for Anderson to move up.
"Clay "The Missing Link" Guida!!!"
by Adamantium007 on Mar 10, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
In the unlikely event Rua beats Jones,
I would definitely rather see Anderson/Shogun than Anderson/GSP.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Unlikely?
Jones has never fought anyone like Shogun. It’s laughable to me that people think Jon is a lock.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
He is far from a lock
And Shogun certainly has paths to victory in this fight, although peak Shogun would have more than this Shogun will. Having said that, Jones should win, and most likely will.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't even say "should".
Jones simply isn’t tested at the ELITE level. Shogun is, and has won more often than not.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I know you wouldn’t, nor would many others, but I have seen enough from him to feel secure with that prediction, particularly considering the other factors at play in the fight.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
Fair enough.
I won’t be surprised if either man wins, whether it’s close, a massive comeback, or a blowout.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
Unlike some of the Jones nuthuggers, I won’t be surprised either way because I can see both fighters having a clear path to victory, but I see Jones having the far more likely path.
If it were peak Shogun – full camp to train, not his first fight after an injury layoff, more time for his people to analyze and prepare for Jones – it would be different for me, although I would still take Jones.
Now, Jones is in peak condition and only has to worry about overtraining or peaking too soon and, importantly, his camp – already the best at analyzing opponents imo, has been working on Rua for months. Jones himself was studying Rua while preparing for Bader to mimic Shogun in training. This will be a huge difference imo.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
Well
Shogun has had a full training camp, and for most fighters, the strategic adjustment phase doesn’t happen until a month or so before the fight. The first part of camp is to get in shape, get everything going.
Also, considering that Shogun was training for a wrestler in Rashad, I don’t think Jones is a terribly hard adjustment. As long as his knees are fine and he didn’t rush his comeback, I think he will be fine.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree, although I hope you are right
Rashad and Jones are similar in that they are wrestling-based fighters, but their techniques and approaches are nothing alike. Jones is also far stronger than Rashad, and far more challenging to prepare for.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
Jones is a superior wrestler, Rashad was a good wrestler at 167 at MSU
Jones was a JUCO AA which is an incredible accomplishment, most JUCO natl champs go to AA status, Jones would have been wrestling at 197 like Phil Davis
Rashad is smaller and folkstyle, Jones is heavier on Greco
Muy Thai based guys have issues with Greco Wrestlers, Silva is the guy who has broke that mold but Rua has never faced a true prime wrestler and coleman and randleman weren’t prime. Also the td that broke Rua’s arm was amateur – Greco guys give Muy Thai guys a hard time, the styles suit the greco guy when the clinch comes which is why I expect Jones wins by stoppage
I think Jon Jones being a heavy favorite over Rua
is the most ridiculous statement one can make as an MMA analyst and fan.
"Clay "The Missing Link" Guida!!!"
by Adamantium007 on Mar 10, 2011 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
People think Jones is gonna get on top and smash Rua. Despite the fact that Jones has only looked good on top against wrestlers who are horrible from their back.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
I thought Vera was a BJJ black belt. Count me as one of the crazy people who think Jones is going to get on top and smash Rua.
A BJJ black belt
who has a history of getting smashed while on his back. Not once has he ever displayed a dangerous, or really even threatening guard.
Werdum & Thiago Silva both dominated Jones with strikes from top position.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
Loose application of Success: kampmann, shields come to mind
Thank you UFC fans. My name Stun Gun. I want GSP
by crinow on Mar 10, 2011 12:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Anderson too.
He beat a prime Mach Sakurai at 170.
Granted, not his best weight, but he was a fine welterweight.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
Anderson too.
He beat a prime Mach Sakurai at 170.
Granted, not his best weight, but he was a fine welterweight.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
I was ready to post the same statement, but you beat me to it
Thanks.
by JAYGK95 on Mar 10, 2011 12:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Meaningless freak show fights are fine
at the bottom of the chain. This is the top. It should mean something.
http://fightdrinker.blogspot.com
by some schmuck in texas on Mar 10, 2011 11:08 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
You’re right. I get caught up in the story, in the excitement. I guess I just want to irrationally see it happen anyhow.
by castleeb on Mar 10, 2011 11:08 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I'm a fan of both guys so I'm not that big on the superfight, if I had my druthers GSP would stay put and Andy would take fights at higher weight.
Because after he knocks out Okami, there’s nothing for him at 185
Doesn't want it with Duece
by doonerthesooner on Mar 10, 2011 11:08 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I'm partially in agreement
but there’s still plenty for him at mw: A rematch with Nate, Belfort or Sonnen, a fight with Bisping, and possibly Wanderlei or even Rousimar if those two could manage to string a couple more wins together. Hell we could possibly even see the match that never was between him and Jake Shields after Andy was dq’d for up-kicking Okami back in 06. I also wouldn’t mind seeing GSP rematch Fitch, fight Condit or…hmm…ok well I can’t really think of too many options for GSP.
*shrug rematches don’t really bother me if it was exciting affair.
by SentientAndroid on Mar 10, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
Anderson isn’t 30lbs heavier in muscle, the weight class is only 15lbs apart maybe a 178-180 catchweight would be appropriate.
by je1ani on Mar 10, 2011 11:09 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I completely agree
Dominating a single weight class for years impresses the hell out of me. I don’t need to see GSP outsized to know he’s a great fighter.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
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by Derek Suboticki on Mar 10, 2011 11:09 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Outsized?
Honestly, how much would Georges be giving up if the fight were at a catchweight? No more than around 10 lbs IMO.
And it’s not like Anderson’s game is even predicated on strength/ size. He is a slick, fast counterstriker, and lengthy, crafty grappler. He doesn’t bully guys around with strength, with the exception of Rich Franklin in the clinch; and that domination was more of a lesson in superior neck wrestling technique & use of leverage, as well as striking technique.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
“And it’s not like Anderson’s game is even predicated on … size.”
“He is … lengthy.”
Length not considered when analyzing size?
by sgiblin on Mar 10, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Of course it is
But he’s also quite thin. Georges is built like a truck, he has a very muscular trunk, huge broad shoulders, etc. Anderson is practically a bean pole.
As I said, at a catchweight, Anderson likely wouldn’t be more than 10 lbs. heavier than Georges. Not the end of the world. If GSP is serious about his legacy, and wanting challenges, then he should take the fight. I agree that either men moving weight classes is nonsensical, that’s why a catchweight makes so much sense.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well,
thanks for leaving out “wanting challenges”.
What i’m saying is that the Anderson fight is right here if he wants it. He’s said on multiple occasions he wants the fight. If that’s so, then he needs to stop making all these stipulations, and just get it done.
Think about how badly it will reflect on PBF’s career if he ducks Pacquiao forever. That’s what it will look like for GSP, to a lesser extent. IMO
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
At the top of the game,
10 lbs can make all the difference, and GSP has that advantage at WW. Why would he give it up?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 10, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Do you mean
that he has the advantage over fellow welterweights, or that he could try to make Anderson cut to 170?
He’s not “giving” anything up, really. If GSP is up for the challenge of fighting Anderson, as he’s mentioned multiple times, then he should do it. A catchweight would mitigate any real size difference.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I mean he has the advantage over fellow welterweights (give or take a guy like Alves). The thing with a catchweight is that GSP is saying that gaining muscle – be it 30 lbs to go to 185 or 15 to go to 177.5 – will fuck up his whole WW thing. He’s talking as if he’s going to commit to moving up to MW permanently if this fight goes down. I think that’s dumb – owning a weight class for years is enough for me.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 10, 2011 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
30 lbs...!?
Last time I checked, welterweight and middleweight only had a 15 lb. differential. And the catchweight would only be a 7.5 lb. difference. If GSP devoted 1 month to lifting and building muscle, he would be good to go for a catchweight.
GSP said that he’s open to a catchweight, but isn’t too keen on moving up to MW. Which I totally agree with, he’s not a middleweight.
I’d rather see the fight, and then have both men return to their divisions champions.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
A guy who does the sort of intense strength training GSP does isn’t going to gain more than a couple of pounds of lean mass a month, although you are right about it only being 15 pounds (maybe up to 18) to MW – he can’t safely cut much more than he already does without it affecting his performance.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
All the more reason for a catchweight.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
I completely agree about a CW – it is the best choice for many reasons.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
But in one month he would make muscle gains, then not need to cut that much weight…
Im sure GSP wants to gain enough muscle so that on fight night, after rehydrating, he’s 200 lbs, not just 190
by Fedorable on Mar 10, 2011 3:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Well,
that’s nitpicky, but I have no problem with him taking his time to pack on muscle. It would be on him if he wanted to return to 170, and the cut was tough, though.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
Losing to Anderson
does not negate the fact that he is a great fighter. I don’t think anyone would turn coat on him. I need to see GSP outsized and win to know he is the BEST fighter.
"Clay "The Missing Link" Guida!!!"
by Adamantium007 on Mar 10, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh, people will turn on him.
But those kind of people… they’re not exactly the most credible fans anyway. I don’t give their kind any consideration.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
He has got a whole country on his side.
GSP fans aren’t going anywhere.
"Clay "The Missing Link" Guida!!!"
by Adamantium007 on Mar 10, 2011 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
GSP fans aren't going anywhere,
but GSP “fans” will pretend like they never liked him.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
Example – ever since Serra knocked out GSP, my friend has been spouting that GSP “was exposed”, “has no chin”, and “is a bitch”.
A single loss to Anderson, especially if it’s via vicious KO, would reinforce that.
None more gangster.
Tweeter!
Well
to be frank, that’s obviously a ridiculous opinion. Not saying your friend is an idiot, but I don’t respect that position all that much
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
His friend is an idiot.
"Clay "The Missing Link" Guida!!!"
by Adamantium007 on Mar 10, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’ll say he’s an idiot. I don’t respect it either, but that doesn’t stop it from being a semi-common sentiment (he’s not the only one I know that says that).
None more gangster.
Tweeter!
I'm an mma purist.
What can I say? Your friends probably are accurate representations of the majority of mma fans. I’m not going to project my own opinions on the masses. Every utterance of “only being as good as your last fight” has made me believe a little bit more and more than people really think that way. Rather disconcerting to be honest.
"Clay "The Missing Link" Guida!!!"
by Adamantium007 on Mar 10, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
Your friends probably are accurate representations of the majority of mma fans.
Could be, but that’s the thing – fighters make their living based on what the majority of MMA fans think of them. Granted, a guy like GSP will continue to have a large enough fanbase where he’s not going to be hurting for money or find himself jobless if he loses.
Is GSP the kind of guy who wants to hold on to his fans and doesn’t want people to think poorly of him? He doesn’t strike me that way.
None more gangster.
Tweeter!
Well
I guess that’s true to an extent. Getting knocked out by Anderson certainly wouldn’t help GSP’s career, but it also wouldn’t be a death knell.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
How would packing on muscle and then trying to come back to 170 pounds affect his career Elliot? How did it affect Jake Shields against Kampmann? How did it affect Roy Jones?
by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 10, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think he would have to pack on a ton of muscle to be competitive at a catchweight.
A few pounds, max. And hell, if he likes the way the extra weight feels, maybe he moves up to 185.
It’s a perfect way to mitigate the size difference between himself & Anderson, as well as test himself at a higher weight.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
So you’re going to disregard the question? He’s said he would pack on significant muscle to move up in weight. You know darn well that could be troublesome trying to come back down. I understand why you’d skirt the issue.
by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 10, 2011 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not "skirting the issue".
A catchweight is 7.5 lbs, give or take, away. For an athlete like GSP, that wouldn’t take more than a month or two to achieve.
It would be troublesome, but given the right diet and exercise, he could lean out just as quick as he bulked up. GSP isn’t even a massive welterweight, he could still make the cut if he packed on a few lbs. of muscle for a catchweight.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
This is one of many reasons why a CW is better.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
I absolutely agree it would be hard to come back down
I used to weigh 155 lbs and eat whatever I wanted. Now that I worked out hardcore for a year or two there is absolutely no freaking way I could make it to 155 or even 170 again.
"Clay "The Missing Link" Guida!!!"
by Adamantium007 on Mar 10, 2011 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
Also,
I think Shields is better suited for Middleweight anyways. He was on a roll at ’85, and he seemed to carry the weight well. Being strong and average height is advantageous for his style of takedowns & top control.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
A casual fan friend of mine
said something interesting the other day. He comes to watch all the PPV’s, and said something to the tune of “It’s really hard to be a fan of MMA fighters. They only fight like 2 or 3 times a year, and unless they always win in exciting fashion, it’s pretty hard for me to really care about them.”
While that’s not true of most of us hardcore fans, it is a salient point IMO.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
Given that commenting and writing about MMA appears to be your full time job
how could you honestly believe there is a huge size difference between GSP and Silva given what Silva said about his weight prior to the Maia fight (192 a week out, 185 before we left for AD), which has been written about in numerous posts before, and including, this one?
"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.
by The Darkness on Mar 10, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
Perhaps full time lifestyle would be more apt?
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
For me? I can’t imagine a less true statement.
by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 10, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
No, I thought you were talking about sue-bow…that is who The Darkness was responding to.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
So to say you are a female African rug-maker would be more apt? Or perhaps a sumo wrestler? :]
Check out Chester, an Xbox game being developed by a friend.
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As I write below, I think you’re too smart to actually believe what you’ve written here. I was actually referring to Subo, who seems reasonably smart about 80% of the time when he’s not shilling for the UFC and certainly smart enough not to believe what the masses are saying about the supposed size difference.
"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.
by The Darkness on Mar 10, 2011 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
*responding to
"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.
by The Darkness on Mar 10, 2011 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
And nuts to the rest of you. This is the closest thing we MMA fans will get to Pacquiao v. Mayweather.
Voted #2 P4P Best BloodyElbow User Name
by Medium Nog on Mar 10, 2011 11:10 AM EST reply actions 9 recs
Yeah, that fight was amazing!
Oh wait…
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 10, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Wow. . .
you really thought I had the boxing knowledge to refer to it’s biggest potential superfight but not enough to know it hasn’t happened. Good one.
Voted #2 P4P Best BloodyElbow User Name
by Medium Nog on Mar 10, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Well for all we know Maywheather/Pacquiao could be a crap fight.
Doesn't want it with Duece
by doonerthesooner on Mar 10, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And the same could be said for any fight that hasn't happened yet.
It’s the stakes and the build up I’m after. These are the two pound for pound best right now. Even if it’s at a catchweight and not for a belt, there is no fight I’d rather watch.
Voted #2 P4P Best BloodyElbow User Name
by Medium Nog on Mar 10, 2011 11:17 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
I think Andy wins the fight handily so maybe I'm being biased.
But I’d like Andy/Shogun more than any other right now.
Doesn't want it with Duece
by doonerthesooner on Mar 10, 2011 11:22 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
We'll never know until they get in the cage though.
Hence, why this is a good fight and should be done.
Semper Fi
by ChicagoMarine on Mar 10, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Catchweight is the best option if this fight were to happen IMO. As much as I’d like to see GSP vs. Anderson, I am a skeptical of GSP’s odds in making it at 185 in the long run in a full-time move to 185. And that could hurt his credibility and his brand, which would hurt the UFC as he’s one of its biggest stars. If this fight never happens, I’m fine w/ that, and await their next challenges at WW and MW respectively, though there is a part of me that would like to see it regardless.
by Hardcase on Mar 10, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Size never stopped B.J. from fighting the greatest fighters in the world.
by axemurderer138 on Mar 10, 2011 11:11 AM EST via mobile reply actions 3 recs
It often stopped him from winning.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 10, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions 19 recs
winning comes second to fighting.
He arguably beat gsp the first time. He beat Hughes, Renzo, had a awesome fight with machida,and asked for Arlovski. That’s why Anderson Silva calls Bj the best.
Winning should be secondary. Its sad fans put more stock in a judges decision than a fighters display of skill and heart.
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Mar 10, 2011 11:32 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 7 recs
If I fought for a living, I’d be more concerning with winning.
by sgiblin on Mar 10, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
thats why Anderson doesnt think you are the best in the world.
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Mar 10, 2011 11:38 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
Dude. I’ve been watching Seagal tapes since a child. I’d whip his ass.
by sgiblin on Mar 10, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
lol
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Mar 10, 2011 11:42 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Me too
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 10, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
give that man a rec
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
Winning should be secondary.
Winning is what matters most. Sorry, it just is the most important thing in a sport.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 10, 2011 12:33 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Winning isn't everything. It's the only thing. True story.
Bolts from the Blue // "It's a league game, Smokey." - Walter Sobchak
Bloody Elbow // "Everybody underestimates the kick in the groin." - Bas Rutten
by Richard Wade on Mar 10, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
Winning should be secondary.
Like it or not MMA is a job for those guys. It’s how they provide for thier families. Would “winning should be secondary” work for any job?
If you can't wow them with brilliance, then baffle them with bullshit.
“Well, boss, I tried to sell that car, but the guys Bob’s Ford down the block ended up doing better. So can I get a bonus check for trying?”
None more gangster.
Tweeter!
“I may not have fixed his transmission, but I’ll be damned if you didn’t enjoy watching me try.”
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 10, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
But people generally don’t pay to watch other people sell cars or fix transmissions. Well, I guess kinda maybe through reality shows, but then there would be the drama of them not selling a car or fixing the transmission right, which would in turn be entertaining in that context. Just sayin’.
Reporting from inside a padded cage at MMAmadman.com.
Yeah, I was kind of being a wiseass with my example there. It doesn’t apply directly, but the fact remains that it pays to be a winner.
None more gangster.
Tweeter!
Of course, you could counter my argument with, “Look at Jon Fitch! He wins and everyone hates him!” or “The New Jersey Devils win consistently (except this year) but are dreadfully boring and everyone hates them!”
And then I could come back with, “Sure, there are exceptions to the rule, but there are reasons that people jump on hype trains and bandwagons – because they like winners.”
Actually, maybe I just hate the Devils ‘cause I’m a Ranger fan.
None more gangster.
Tweeter!
lol…it’s true. Matt Brown seems to get more respect from Dana White than Jon Fitch.
Reporting from inside a padded cage at MMAmadman.com.
True, to a degree
but if you are never going to be a champion (Chris Lytle for example), you are probably better of, and more valuable to the company, if you fight in a fan friendly style.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
Well,
You have to remember that sports in general are an entertainment industry. If people aren’t entertained by you, then you’re not going to prosper as much, regardless of your win record.
The rare fighter who can win and excite will be extremely successful. And if you can do at least one of those consistently, you can hold a job in MMA.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
Winning should still be your #1 goal. Phil Baroni is one of the most exciting fighters to watch. If your not winning most of your fights you’re going to get walking papers.
If you can't wow them with brilliance, then baffle them with bullshit.
I agree
Except Phil isn’t even always the best fighter to watch. He’s fun for the 1’st minute, and then he’s just so tough that he gets beat on for a while. For me, the only drama involved is seeing whether Phil can finish before he gasses.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
He will always provide THE BEST 1 MINUTE EVA
If you can't wow them with brilliance, then baffle them with bullshit.
Can't argue with that.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
trying to win is the most important thing.
Skill ,heart and hard work are the most important things.
Winning is just usually the result of those things. A loss could be a what happened to Jones vs. Hamil or what happened to rumble with that bad eye poke,or bonnar vs krystof 1. None of those losses are taken seriously by most people that watched the fights.
You don’t have to agree with me and I am not saying you are wrong. But I am definately not wrong. We just have different views.
Gsp always says "I’m a martial artist " , well now its time act like one. Samuri didn’t weigh in before a dual. They drew their swords and handled shit.
If Gsp wants to go all PBF on us . well then he should start saying he is a “sport player” not a martial artist. Imho
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Mar 10, 2011 2:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Winning is what matters most in the business of MMA or the sport of MMA, but if you are a warrior, then set yourself against a challenge, for the sake of the challenge…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
Skill ,heart and hard work are the most important things.
I could spend the next six months doing nothing but training for a fight against Bones Jones and I’d still get my ass kicked.
No one would remember me for how hard I trained or how much effort I put into it, everyone would think of me as that idiot whose head was removed by a spinning back elbow.
Extreme example, but the point remains – you can show heart and courage and whatever, but in the end of the day, you still lost. To the victor go the spoils.
Samuri didn’t weigh in before a dual. They drew their swords and handled shit.
Pretty sure winning was really important to those guys, considering what losing usually meant…
None more gangster.
Tweeter!
jones has been wrestling his entire life.
You getting off the couch for the next six months doesn’t Really compare to the amount time and hard work he has put in to fighting.
Point 2 – the losing Samuri died in a sword fight , but he died a Samuri. if he was challenged and threw his sword down and ran …. well he lived but he didn’t get to call himself a Samuri.
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Mar 10, 2011 2:39 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
That’s why I said it was extreme.
But in sports (and this is a sport), winning is a lot more important than trying to win.
None more gangster.
Tweeter!
you wouldnt be impressed by gsp stepping up to fight anderson?
Reguardless of the outcome? I would.
Fortune Favors The Bold.
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Mar 10, 2011 2:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Thats a lot of important things.
Not one of those qualities kept Ben Saunders or any other “game” fighter in the UFC after consecutive losses.
Warrior spirit pays very little on the risk/reward balance.
by Forbidden Psychological Technology on Mar 11, 2011 1:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
there's no reason to subjugate one to the other (winning and heart)
their meaning puts them in different places… (as i understand it anyway)
a fighter can win by the most appaling and dull means possible and a fighter can lose in the most extraordinary battle imaginable. What lives on following either kind of event in the hearts/minds of those people who constitute ‘mma’ is always a double effect anyway.
We know who wins the fight and we know how we feel about what we have seen.
The former impacts on a fighter’s ‘standing’ in the community / promotion and their chances of reaching a title, the latter on how they are responded to on a gut level.
Winning or showing great heart (only separated here for the purposes of this response) lead fighters to different places within the sport, one seems predisposed towards conventional idea of success (i.e. winning loads of money, championships etc), the other towards being truly loved by the people who love MMA.
(tho should also say, there will always be a million reasons for fans to love fighters ;-)
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
If by "often"
You mean size played a factor in his losses to GSP & Lyoto, then yes, it kept him from winning often. Personally, I don’t consider 2 losses to fighters like St. Pierre & Machida to be that devastating…
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, that would be 3 losses to the to of them.
by jhf884 on Mar 10, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well
I personally consider the first GSP/ Penn fight a draw, but regardless- it was a close fight. As was the Machida fight.
The only time weight has ever played a significant role in a Penn loss was the 2’nd GSP fight.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 11:53 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I was nit-picking. Sorry!
I think weight probably had something to do w/ the Fitch loss as well—that an Fitch having the skill to make BJ work, take him down, etc. Not taking anything away from Fitch here
by jhf884 on Mar 10, 2011 12:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
They drew...
And Fitch wasn’t that much bigger than Penn. He was purportedly cutting from 176, because of his new diet.
I think it made him more succeptible to being taken down, but gave him more energy for the later rounds.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
Wow. They did in fact draw, how did I forget that? The fight litterally JUST happened.
But Fitch is bigger, BJ was 3 or 4 lbs south of 170, and Fitch has a large heavy frame. After he rehydrated, Fitch probably had 12-15 lbs on BJ.
Well,
I would say that Fitch actually has a pretty slight frame, but is definitely bigger than BJ. ~10 lbs heavier sounds about right.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
#WINNING isn't really that great these days.
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 10, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Not winning gets you a free bus pass to Strikeforce/Bellator.
by sgiblin on Mar 10, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
WINNING delayed 2 and a Half Men and may or may not be replaced with Rob Lowe.
They made a video game about Yakuzas. It’s called Yakuza. And it’s about Yakuza
gocyborg.wordpress.com
by Krimson on Mar 10, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I don't think GSP should take this fight.
What if he doesn’t adjust well to 185? He’s supposed to ruin his legacy to fight one guy? I’m more than happy with him dominating the 170 lb division.
by sgiblin on Mar 10, 2011 11:11 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
RUIN the legacy?
These hyperbolic statements are garbage. Is Chuck’s legacy ruined? What about Wanderlei? What about BJ? Tell me those fighters aren’t legendary. All have big losses.
"Clay "The Missing Link" Guida!!!"
by Adamantium007 on Mar 10, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
This.
No one hates Chuck for his last few fights, but think about how people would look at him if he’d left after beating Wanderlei.
This is a slightly different case though, in that Chuck had a few bad losses in a row, whereas GSP would only be losing one fight to Anderson (if he lost).
None more gangster.
Tweeter!
Going out on your shield vs. going out at the top.
We all want the best fighters to retire before embarrassing losses . How often do they actually do that though?
"Clay "The Missing Link" Guida!!!"
by Adamantium007 on Mar 10, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
Risk vs. Benefit.
He shouldn’t take the fight for other reasons. His legacy will be untouched by a loss.
"Clay "The Missing Link" Guida!!!"
by Adamantium007 on Mar 10, 2011 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
If he loses, he gets thrown in the mix at 185. And if he loses badly, he might be a few fights from another title shot. Why risk that situation? It makes more sense to me to remain at 170, keep whipping everyone’s ass, and become the best 170 lbers of all time.
I agree
He shouldn’t risk that situation precisely for those concerns. Ultimately it is a bad move and the smart move is to stay at 170. Dana F’ing White would make millions. I see the fight happening.
"Clay "The Missing Link" Guida!!!"
by Adamantium007 on Mar 10, 2011 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
He's already the best 170lber so far
Losing to Silva at 185 won’t change that. If he gets KTFO, it won’t tarnish his legacy any more than what Serra did to him.
by Pantherhare on Mar 10, 2011 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed 100%
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
I agree. GSP losing at 185, Silva losing at 170 or either guy losing in a competitive, well fought CW fight diminishes no one.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
Right, and
he will lose eventually even if he stays at WW…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
Which fights do you want to see for GSP?
Fitch 2?
Bj 2?
Kos 3?
Diego ?
Dan Hardy 2?
by Cool2010 on Mar 10, 2011 11:13 AM EST reply actions 5 recs
I guess Fitch does deserve another crack but that fight will go down exactly the same except Fitch will probably try his hardest to not take as much damage.
What has he improved since the first fight that makes anyone think he has a chance?
by Tats16 on Mar 10, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think his stand-up has improved enough to make it more competitive on the feet. However, even as a big Fitch fan I’d be surprised to see him win, but nobody in the history of the sport has done more to earn another shot at a title (IMO).
by carpediem on Mar 10, 2011 11:22 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This
And Fitch’ stand up has improved I agree.
Doesn't want it with Duece
by doonerthesooner on Mar 10, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Or some better welterweights that should step the fuck up?
GSP set a bar. It CAN be met.
They made a video game about Yakuzas. It’s called Yakuza. And it’s about Yakuza
gocyborg.wordpress.com
by Krimson on Mar 10, 2011 11:14 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Fitch, for sure. Condit, Kampman, SHields,
Doesn't want it with Duece
by doonerthesooner on Mar 10, 2011 11:14 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe
Doesn't want it with Duece
by doonerthesooner on Mar 10, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Nick Diaz
I try to be a role model for kids around the park. If some kid wants to grow dope, they can come talk to me, instead of growing dope 6 or 7 times through denial and error, they're going to get it right the first time and have some good dope. - Ricky
You can't tell me to not grow dope. It's like telling the NWA to stop being black.-Ricky
by RTCplayer on Mar 10, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Thats a whole nother can of beans rights there but I take GSP over Diaz all day.
Doesn't want it with Duece
by doonerthesooner on Mar 10, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t think Diaz will make it past Daley, much less GSP.
by sgiblin on Mar 10, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Most interesting fight Strikeforce has right now if you ask me.
Doesn't want it with Duece
by doonerthesooner on Mar 10, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Gsp and BJ have fought twice already.
by Tats16 on Mar 10, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I hve no real interest in Fitch or Hardy 2, or Kos or BJ 3, to be honest.
by Hardcase on Mar 10, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
RUMBLE JOHNSON
I try to be a role model for kids around the park. If some kid wants to grow dope, they can come talk to me, instead of growing dope 6 or 7 times through denial and error, they're going to get it right the first time and have some good dope. - Ricky
You can't tell me to not grow dope. It's like telling the NWA to stop being black.-Ricky
by RTCplayer on Mar 10, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
That poor guy
as if his eyes weren’t googly enough.
"Clay "The Missing Link" Guida!!!"
by Adamantium007 on Mar 10, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Shields, Condit, Story, Ellenburger, Hendricks later, Kampmann, Askren when he gets to the UFC…there are, and will continue to be, many good fights at WW for GSP. Fitch again, but mostly because he deserves it…
Or, if GSP wants, fight the James Irvin and then the Forrest Griffin of MW (Griffin the tailor-made opponent).
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
SPOILER ALERT
Bj 2 is a loss.
If you don't like the effect, don't produce the cause.
360Gamertag:Flipadelph1a
I agree and disagree.
I can do without this superfight. I think GSP has a right to stay where he is, doing what he does. To be honest, I think Silva has also made this decision for himself: if Silva WANTED A LIGHT-HEAVY TITLE SHOT, HE’D GET IT. He’s fought at LH, but not for all the marbles. Both of these men have the right.
But GSP must realize that many other fighters have fought opponents larger than them, and doing so can go a very, very long way for your eventual legacy. BJ Penn has balls. He is a brave motherfucker, pardon my French, and has fought the best-ever guys at 170. He wanted the challenge. He just fought Fitch—most Middleweights would turn down a Fitch fight.
So it most certainly says something about GSP—the guy who wants everyone to call him the GOAT—that he doesn’t want this challenge.
by Dustinovsky on Mar 10, 2011 11:14 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
You just perfectly illustrated
why BJ is thought of as a great martial artist and a true warrior, and GSP is thought of as arguably the best – at the sport of MMA.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
True
I’m not a huge fan of BJ, but him challenging himself by fighting on all comers is 2nd to none in the UFC, well you also have Randy and Fedor in that discussion as well…except Fedor isn’t in the UFC of course. BJ has challenged himself at a higher weight class by fighting guys like: GSP 2x, Hughes 3x, Fitch and Lyoto Machida, that’s somewhat equivalent of Anderson going up and fighting Shogun 2x, Lyoto 3x, Rampage and umm…hell who’s a heavy weight version of Lyoto? I guess Fedor maybe???
Equivalent for GSP would be if he fought Andy 2x, Rich 3x, Nate Marquardt and Chuck Liddell.
There’s no denying BJ’s drive as a champion.
by SentientAndroid on Mar 10, 2011 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
Pacquiao v. Mayweather of MMA
this is like Pacquiao v. Mayweather. GSP is Mayweather in this case. He walks around at 190lbs, why cant he just cut down to 185 instead of 170 or just build muscle. I think he is just a chicken. Silva moved up to 205, why cant he jump a weight class. Or atleast a catch weight.
by suckmyballs on Mar 10, 2011 11:15 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
He’s a chicken because he doesn’t want to forfeit the upper hand to fight one guy?
by sgiblin on Mar 10, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
GSP walks around at 190 and cuts to 170
Guys in the MW division walk around at over 200 and cut to 185. Thats a big difference in strength and size.
by Discman2 on Mar 10, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
keep making excuses, while manny wins in 8 weight classes
by GracieHunter on Mar 10, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
8 weight classes that are what, 3 4 pounds apart?
yeah totally the same thing
by IRodC on Mar 10, 2011 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
but it’s boxing. The speed advantage you get by being smaller is much more relevant when you don’t have to grapple with the bigger man.
Precisely...
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
I'm just saying
you can’t down play what Manny has done. Its just amazing that he can move up in weight some many times and keep destroying people.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
Oh there is no doubt that it is amazing…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
I've been a fan of Pac Man since 06
And as amazing as that feat is, it’s not comparable to what we’re asking GSP to do. I don’t recall a single time throughout Manny’s rise did anyone say he would be fighting the absolute best that the division had to offer at the time he made the move. It was always “can he overcome the size/strength of his opponent.” Silva presents an entirely different scenario. Silva’s made a move up in weight, but it’s not like he fought Shogun or Machidia or someone considered a top p4p guy. He beat a very tough Forrest, but few would consider him the no. 1 or 2 guy in his division. Silva is considered the number 1 guy period and people are calling GSP a coward because he doesn’t want to fight the guy tomorrow.
by black dragon on Mar 12, 2011 4:17 AM EST up reply actions
Also neither is talking shit about each other, making excuses, or making accusations and pleading for drug tests.
They made a video game about Yakuzas. It’s called Yakuza. And it’s about Yakuza
gocyborg.wordpress.com
by Krimson on Mar 10, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Your premature in calling GSP a chicken. As has been noted several times, Anderson cuts even more weight and would still enjoy a size advantage over GSP. Why wouldn’t he be hesitant or skeptical about wanting to take on that? And neither party has ruled out the catchweight option yet.
by Hardcase on Mar 10, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
As has been noted several times, Anderson cuts even more weight and would still enjoy a size advantage over GSP.
It never ends…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
Chicken?
Who are you to be calling a man who fights in a cage for a living a chicken?
And furthermore why am I responding to someone who decided to go by the moniker “suckmyballs”? Grow up.
"So, while you're taking a break from the UFC, hanging out at some lame party that your girlfriend dragged you to, I'll man up and watch some goddamn fights like a goddamn adult."
- Mike Fagan
Support independent artists
http://worldisart365.blogspot.com/
by Worldisart on Mar 10, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions 8 recs
This post is art.
"Clay "The Missing Link" Guida!!!"
by Adamantium007 on Mar 10, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
In my opinion, “suckmyballs” is a more credible name than “SheepleBuster.”
by crazybones on Mar 10, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
In my opinion
I think they’re both clowns with little or anything of real substance to say.
"So, while you're taking a break from the UFC, hanging out at some lame party that your girlfriend dragged you to, I'll man up and watch some goddamn fights like a goddamn adult."
- Mike Fagan
Support independent artists
http://worldisart365.blogspot.com/
by Worldisart on Mar 10, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 10 recs
Now THAT is art
They made a video game about Yakuzas. It’s called Yakuza. And it’s about Yakuza
gocyborg.wordpress.com
I think they’re both clowns with little or anything of real substance to say.
Hear hear.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
www.badlefthook.com
by Drunken cutman on Mar 10, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
In all fairness,
Silva jumped to fight James Irvin and then a tailor-made for him top-10 former champ in Griffin.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
To be honest, Silva didn’t jump to fight Irvin specifically. Supposedly there were few big names that turned the fight down (Irvin was 4th choice if I remember correctly).
".He still has a ground game that seems heavily dependent on lying still and hoping that his opponent won't notice his very kimura-able arm..."
by dancingChicken on Mar 11, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
I recall hearing that as well, although I don’t recall any specific names if there were any.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 11, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
I think people dislike you
because you open your article with 100 words of self-felation.
My prescription is for 'medicinal purposes' only
by 209dealer on Mar 10, 2011 11:15 AM EST reply actions 25 recs
Ha!?
I like Snowden articles, but he has a point here.
Semper Fi
by ChicagoMarine on Mar 10, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
"of self-felation"
That’s how you know the rush fit is working. You gotta be skinny for self-felation. A beer belly would get in the way.
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Mar 10, 2011 11:41 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
It's auto-fellatio
but rec’d anyways.
"Clay "The Missing Link" Guida!!!"
by Adamantium007 on Mar 10, 2011 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
Hammer on nail. LOL
I've got something to say; it better to burn out than to fade away!!!
Wandy, Hendo, Vitor and Chael; the Berlin Wall of the Middle Weight top 10. Spitting, sensitive, sandy Brits (MB) need not apply.
Nerdsole Wars; X Box 4 life.
BJ penn fought Machida
and took him to a draw. Cain beat Brock and he made it seem easy. Size does matter but he’s just a chicken.
by suckmyballs on Mar 10, 2011 11:18 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Says the man who doesn’t fight for a living.
by sgiblin on Mar 10, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Machida beat Penn by UD.
Voted #2 P4P Best BloodyElbow User Name
by Medium Nog on Mar 10, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’ve never actually seen the full fight but doesn’t everyone say it was really close and could have been a draw or a BJ win?
by Tats16 on Mar 10, 2011 11:22 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
youtube brothet
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Mar 10, 2011 11:23 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
It was basically a draw. Neither guy did… well, anything.
by crazybones on Mar 10, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
There's a lot of leaning in the corner
"With gold thou boughtest Gýmir's daughter,
and so gavest away thy sword:
but when Muspell's sons through the dark forest ride,
thou, unhappy, wilt not have wherewith to fight."
~ Lokasenna
you should watch a fight before you talk aBout it.
Its on youtube. Penn did win Rd. 2. But lost the fight.
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Mar 10, 2011 11:22 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
no penn lost so....................
where are you going with this?
I try to be a role model for kids around the park. If some kid wants to grow dope, they can come talk to me, instead of growing dope 6 or 7 times through denial and error, they're going to get it right the first time and have some good dope. - Ricky
You can't tell me to not grow dope. It's like telling the NWA to stop being black.-Ricky
by RTCplayer on Mar 10, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He just needed to fill up his quota of starting 5 different subthreads mentioning BJ Penn
while conspicuously avoiding the general mediocrity of Penn’s runs outside of LW.
El Santo inspired me to be a submission grappler.
by Enmascarado on Mar 10, 2011 11:53 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Machida was undefeated until he ran into Shogun
and got robbed in the rampage fight…but yeah there was NO draw with BJ soweee
by MMA_Revolution on Mar 10, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
"Not every time, but enough of the time that it isn't fair to judge a smaller man by his performance against a larger foe"
And yet people call for Fedor to retire after being beat up by a man 50lbs heavier than he.
by Discman2 on Mar 10, 2011 11:18 AM EST reply actions 5 recs
There's a 59-pound window in the heavyweight division.
GSP and Silva weigh in 15 pounds apart in their regular weight classes. Not that unrealistic that they couldn’t meet at a catchweight. Assuming GSP gets by Shields and Silva by Okami, there’s just too much money to be made for them not to fight each other.
Reporting from inside a padded cage at MMAmadman.com.
by MMAmadman on Mar 10, 2011 11:19 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Think long-term.
What if GSP gets absolutely embarrassed? Then what? He has more to lose from this one fight than remaining in the 170 lb division and dominating for years.
by sgiblin on Mar 10, 2011 11:22 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Risk-reward
Doesn’t every fighter take this risk when they fight the best? What if GSP wins? He lost to Matt Serra at welterweight. In fighting opponents ranked below him, GSP risks losing as well, and without the incredible reward of a win over Silva.
Reporting from inside a padded cage at MMAmadman.com.
Risk greatly outweighs reward. If he wins, great. He outwrestled Anderson. If he loses, what next? He gave up his position and a dominant champion to be thrown in the mix at 185. I’d stay at 170.
by sgiblin on Mar 10, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If GSP wins, he is the undisputed best pound-for-pound fighter on the face of the planet. If he loses, he lives to fight another day just like he did after losing before.
Reporting from inside a padded cage at MMAmadman.com.
GSP either wins by UD or GnP stoppage, or he loses via KO which is not absolutely embarrassed.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
Was BJ penn vs GSP bad for the sport? No… it wasnt even bad for BJ penn. He made way more money and became an even bigger star after.
is GSP/Anderson at 185 fair? no. just like penn/gsp wasnt fair.
Is the fight fair at around 179? Hell yeah. If Anderson is so big the weight cut should be a huge disadvantage.
The bottom line is after Shields there’s absolutely no one for GSP to fight at 170. If BJ had a convincing win or if Fitch had a convincing win it would help GSP’s case. What doesnt help is GSP and his camp talking about him moving up after Shields and then having second thoughts after witnessing Andersons seagal kick.
They were likely playing the odds because Anderson going undefeated this long is against the odds and the easiest and least risky path for GSP to leapfrog anderson would be if he simply lost to someone else.
This is fight is going to happen… GSp should be more focused on trying to make it a catch weight instead trying to figure out how to get out of it.
by mmalogic on Mar 10, 2011 11:20 AM EST reply actions 13 recs
Was BJ penn vs GSP bad for the sport? No… it wasnt even bad for BJ penn. He made way more money and became an even bigger star after.
is GSP/Anderson at 185 fair? no. just like penn/gsp wasnt fair.
Kind of a distinction in that Penn was a champion at 170 when St. Pierre was just cutting his teeth. Which time was it unfair? The time B.J. almost beat him? Or only the second time when he lost?
by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 10, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It was unfair in both occasions based on your very own definition of why anderson/gsp shouldnt happen: Size.
Percentage wise the difference in weight classes are similar,.
The difference between Fitch and BJ is similar to GSP/Anderson… was BJ/Fitch bad for the sport?
GSP/Anderson isnt bad for the sport. At 185 it’s not fair competition. Big Difference.
by mmalogic on Mar 10, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
And Mr Snowden
The Greeks gave us poetry, drama, theatre, democracy, philosiphy, math, the olympics and acutal science.
Aristotle is rolling over in his oversized corinthian pillared tomb.
So I do not mind learning from them or taking ideas from them. : P
I've got something to say; it better to burn out than to fade away!!!
Wandy, Hendo, Vitor and Chael; the Berlin Wall of the Middle Weight top 10. Spitting, sensitive, sandy Brits (MB) need not apply.
Nerdsole Wars; X Box 4 life.
by dandeman on Mar 10, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Holy shit mmalogic and I agree on something.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
by Mike Fagan on Mar 10, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Holy shit I found a nickel.
Check out Chester, an Xbox game being developed by a friend.
SaberCats Examiner | SB Nation Bay Area | Niners Nation | Twitter
by James Brady on Mar 10, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Right!
But I still feel like I need to shower after giving him a rec…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
“If Anderson is so big the weight cut should be a huge disadvantage”
This is an important point that people completely ignore. People act like the bigger fighter will always have the advantage no matter at which weight the fight is fought. If Anderon was a true LHW, he can’t bring the full force of his weight advantage in to a MW fight. A fight at catchweight would also decrease the benefits of a size advantage.
I’ve often been accused of being a contrarian. Someone who writes things just to stir the pot, who looks for the consensus and goes the opposite way. Nothing could be further from the truth. I would love, for once, to be on the popular side of the issue of the day. To bask in the adulation I can only assume comes to those with safe, conventional, and dull opinions.
So wait. Are you contrarian, or not?
If it seems like everyone around you is an asshole, you are probably an asshole.
by judonerd on Mar 10, 2011 11:21 AM EST reply actions 5 recs
Remember, his mind “spins too fast for that.”
No, Jon-Jon isn’t contrarian at all.
by jhf884 on Mar 10, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
lets say gsp vacates 170. whoever picks up the belt will be a paper champion.
lets say gsp does defeat silva. it makes the entire MW division look weak for not being able to do what a ww could.
upside? 1 big ppv ?
by hewsdaddy on Mar 10, 2011 11:21 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
i support this article
except the part in which Snowden declares himself a genios which mind rolls too fast for other dull minded mortals to understand, a bit of humility would be nice too
by Parcero Malo on Mar 10, 2011 11:21 AM EST reply actions 5 recs
Humility is for noobs.
I've got something to say; it better to burn out than to fade away!!!
Wandy, Hendo, Vitor and Chael; the Berlin Wall of the Middle Weight top 10. Spitting, sensitive, sandy Brits (MB) need not apply.
Nerdsole Wars; X Box 4 life.
by dandeman on Mar 10, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Everybody hates on Jones for his “false humility”…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
This article is exactly right
I’ve never thought that GSP vs Anderson sounds like a good fight. It sounds exciting cause they are the two p4p best fighters, but realistically Anderson in my mind is more of a LHW than even a MW and George is a WW and really that’s it. Anderson should crush George even with that reach.
You guys talk about a big fight with money, start moving Anderson up to fight LHW and HW. Anderson vs Rashad, Anderson vs a big name HW, Anderson vs Jones if he bears Rua. Those are exciting fights which make a lot more sense.
by MPDevils on Mar 10, 2011 11:22 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
You never said why GSP vs. Spider was bad for the sport....
The title should have read….
Georges St. Pierre Versus Anderson Silva Is Bad For Georges St. Pierre.
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
Proud BElitest.
by MMArazorback on Mar 10, 2011 11:23 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
It’s a spectacle. And considering GSP’s status, what is bad for him IS bad for the sport.
by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 10, 2011 11:24 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If GSP wins, which I think he has a great shot at
then he becomes in my opinion, the greatest MMA fighter of all time. He will elevate not only his status as a fighter but his brand beyond any MMA fighter ever has.
With that said, I would prefer a fight b/w Anderson and the winner of Shogun/Jones BUT I’m in agreement that this fight should happen
by dagoldenmonkey on Mar 10, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Did Silva not just get manhandled by Chael Sonnen for 4 1/2 rounds? I cannot fathom how a fully prepared GSP would make this fight spectacle?
Reporting from inside a padded cage at MMAmadman.com.
by MMAmadman on Mar 10, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think Anderson won that fight
Didn’t GSP get the beatdown from a LW at one point
by Dane Robertson on Mar 10, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And Chael has fought at 205 before he's much larger than GSP and Chael prolly has better wrestling.
Doesn't want it with Duece
by doonerthesooner on Mar 10, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’m not saying GSP would win, but he’s already said he will only take the fight if he’s bulked up and fully prepared. Given GSP is one of the best wrestlers in the sport, if not the best, this fight would be a far cry from spectacle. It’d be the 2 best fighters in the business squaring off and would make a shitton of money for both guys.
Reporting from inside a padded cage at MMAmadman.com.
by MMAmadman on Mar 10, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Not spectacle by any means just I don't think it's a fair fight.
But when is it a fair fight against Andy?
Doesn't want it with Duece
by doonerthesooner on Mar 10, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It's not fair
because of the weight. They have both had world class training (both with Roach as a matter of fact) and skill-wise I see them being comparable.
"Clay "The Missing Link" Guida!!!"
by Adamantium007 on Mar 10, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
GSP has wrestling but other than that Andy is better at everything.
Doesn't want it with Duece
by doonerthesooner on Mar 10, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah Andy really proved that last time they fought
oh wait….they never fought….
"Clay "The Missing Link" Guida!!!"
by Adamantium007 on Mar 10, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah but come on man we've seen Andy sub Lutter and Hendo.
And the stand up isn’t even close. GSP won’t be able to work the jab against Andy.
Doesn't want it with Duece
by doonerthesooner on Mar 10, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Intuitively
I am more than inclined to agree with you. However Phil Baroni can tell me all day that he is a better striker than Amir Sodalla. I need to see it to believe it.
"Clay "The Missing Link" Guida!!!"
by Adamantium007 on Mar 10, 2011 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
This is pretty much the point.
We can give our opinions and analysis all day. It isn’t until two guys fight that we know.
Reporting from inside a padded cage at MMAmadman.com.
Unless you're talking about obvious squash matches.
Like Fedor vs Werdum, where we all know Werdum had no chance. That turned out …. uh … well, shit.
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by James Brady on Mar 10, 2011 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
We've seen so much from both guys though.
And with how effectively Andy uses his length. And if were talking about a fight then yeah anything can happen but if were talking who’s better on the feet no one is better than Andy.
Doesn't want it with Duece
by doonerthesooner on Mar 10, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
Talking about a fight and who is better on the feet
is the exact same thing. Tell me Rua is better than Andy. Or Andy is better than Rua. You can’t. Period.
"Clay "The Missing Link" Guida!!!"
by Adamantium007 on Mar 10, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
But GSP isn't in the same league as those guys.
I suppose Andy could be expecting the shot and leave himself open a la Chael so you have a point but if you ask me whose better Andy will be my answer with out even thinking.
Doesn't want it with Duece
by doonerthesooner on Mar 10, 2011 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
That's why intuitively you aren't wrong.
However logically, you can’t make that assertion without seeing it in person. That’s all I’m saying. If it was a k1 bout I would lay my bank account on Silva. Does that mean that Silva is a better striker than GSP? Absolutely not. We have to wait and see.
"Clay "The Missing Link" Guida!!!"
by Adamantium007 on Mar 10, 2011 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
True
In a K-1 style fight, its not even competitive, but in an MMA fight, with the constant threat of a shot far better than Sonnen’s, GSP’s stand-up would be passable in short spurts.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
at 185 Dimensions and size make it virtually impossible for GSP to win. GSP will take him down… ofcourse. but if you look at their dimensions GSP will not be able to do anything… he wont even be able to reach his head from gaurd.
Watch franklin vs Forrest when Rich was in his gaurd.
At 179 this would be easier for GSp to cope with as the strength difference will at least be mitigated.
by mmalogic on Mar 10, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The best fighting the best is not bad for the sport IMO. Jumping in weight is very common in boxing & when top fighters fight each other, it get lots of attention. It far outweighs the consequence of diminishing the value of the fighter on the losing end.
by RIZAL on Mar 10, 2011 11:37 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly
All this is about is what will happen if GSP loses. It just goes to show that people can run their mouth all they want on how GSP would win. However, deep inside, we all know he would lose
GSP had no problem fighting two lightweights in Penn and Serra (and Sherk). Now all of a sudden its bad for the sport.
People have begged for this fight and now that it’s coming, here comes the excuses on why it shouldn’t happen.
by Dane Robertson on Mar 10, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Only Applies if GSP beats Shields
I’m not just handing GSP a victory over Jake Shields. I’m well aware of what happened leading up to the Kampmann fight to not put much stock into it. The guy had to move down to WW from MW on like a month notice.
Didn’t see anyone whining about that either
by Dane Robertson on Mar 10, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It's ridiculous
how many people are looking past Shields. All the man does is win. He has a great chance of beating GSP if only by hanging on to him and drawing out a decision (see Brown vs. Yahya although I’m not comparing either fighter to Brown or Yahya)
by dagoldenmonkey on Mar 10, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The sport has changed a lot since GSP was fighting LWs at 170
Doesn't want it with Duece
by doonerthesooner on Mar 10, 2011 11:33 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
like the availability of a lw division, perhaps?
by hewsdaddy on Mar 10, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
GSP had no problem fighting two lightweights in Penn and Serra (and Sherk). Now all of a sudden its bad for the sport.
They chose to fight at WW. It was what it was. I doubt anyne would really lobbying that much criticism at them had they opted to stay at LW.
by Hardcase on Mar 10, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
GSP fought Penn a lightweight and did not complain about it
you did not hear him saying o no im too big for him. He took the fight and now its time for him to move up cause at welterweight there is not more contenders. At least fighting at middleweight he will have contenders, i think even Okami can give him a L, Sonnen, Silva will beat him and he konws this.
by suckmyballs on Mar 10, 2011 11:25 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
gsp fought at lightweight? news to me
by GracieHunter on Mar 10, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Reading comprehension problems?
GSP fought Penn- a lightweight, and did not complain about it.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
To be fair, there was no punctuation to denote lightweight as a modifier for Penn.
And the way people often type online, an “a” could easily have meant “at”
by black dragon on Mar 10, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
I know
But I think he was just saying that for the sake of argumentation.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
Actually, GSP did complain. He said Alves deserved the shot, which was true. And when Penn started trash talking, GSP and his camp said he would eat his words, which he did after getting his head beat in.
by Hardcharger on Mar 10, 2011 12:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
As much as a a Silva vs. GSP super fight does intrigue me… Silva vs. Okami 2…Silva vs. Sonnen 2 and then a move up to LHW to fight Jones may be the best thing for the sport. GSP hasn’t cleared out WW until he beats Condit.
by axemurderer138 on Mar 10, 2011 11:25 AM EST via mobile reply actions 2 recs
Totally agree I have zero interest in the fight It does nothing me.
Silva vs Shogun now that is another thing that fight makes sense.
by Hioki's Hamster on Mar 10, 2011 11:25 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Shields and Condit are still huge threats for GSP at 170.
by axemurderer138 on Mar 10, 2011 11:26 AM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
let make this a catchweight bout at 176. gsp and anderson get to keep their belts and if either loses it wont be that bad for their pocketbooks or legacy.
can we shake on it?
by Piru P on Mar 10, 2011 11:26 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I agree that a catchweight is the ideal situation
But I think GSP has more to lose in this fight than Anderson by far. Anderson has already had his aura of invulnerability beaten down by Chael whereas GSP has not looked back since his loss to Serra. However, GSP is in a position where IF he beats Anderson, he could establish himself as the greatest mixed martial artists of all time and he has a longer career left than Anderson. Therefore, if anything, Anderson should cut down and allow GSP to gain only a minimum amount of weight
by dagoldenmonkey on Mar 10, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
also it has to be a 9 round fight instead of 5…
by hewsdaddy on Mar 10, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
35 PBS common in hw
First I don’t they should fight bc silva is a legit lhw. However a 35lb difference in he is common. Silva vs fedor most recently. If snowden thinks gsp vs silva would make no sense than I assume he thinks we Need a super he div. and I have never heard him say that. Either 35 lbs is too much to over come or not, can’t have it both ways Jonathan
by Budiswiser on Mar 10, 2011 11:28 AM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
And how did that weight differance work out for Fedor?
by MPDevils on Mar 10, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That’s my point, but no one thinks twice about it. So either that fight shouldn’t of happened OR it should have and so shouldd silva/gsp… It can’t be both. If ur against the weight disadvantage of 35lbs than u are for a super he division. I don’t see snowden asking for that.
by Budiswiser on Mar 10, 2011 11:42 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I get your point
and I’m not saying a super HW is bad (minus I don’t think there is the depth for it) but the difference is someone like Fedor could be a LHW easy. That wouldn’t be a very difficult weight cut for him.
I think Fedor is a perfect example of what would happen to GSP. GSP fighting MW is a lot like Fedor fighting HW like you said. GSP can beat most of the division and hold his own, but when he fights a skilled oversized MW who should be in a division above MW like Anderson is it’s like Fedor fighting Silva. Fedor can still beat most HWs, but if there is someone too over powering he cant.
Anderson came in and looked close to size to Forest when they fought and everyone says how Forest is the biggest LHW. As Anderson can cut all the weight since he isnt a bulky person does not mean that he truly is that. Anderson putting on a little muscle could easily be a HW
by MPDevils on Mar 10, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
35 lbs
35 lbs……damn autofill
by Budiswiser on Mar 10, 2011 11:30 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I think GSP vs. Silva is partly a failure on Zuffa’s part. It’s their job to find and develop contenders. Dana, go find some contenders, develop guys, keep the flow going.
I wonder if Silva could cut down to welterweight. If he can’t, then maybe this fight shouldn’t be happening. Size is an issue here, and if Silva wins size will certainly factor into it.
So what grand riddle are we solving by putting these two together?
by ndf on Mar 10, 2011 11:31 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
It's not just the weight difference, it's the body type
I think GSP is good enough to beat many of the stockier middleweights, despite their strength and weight advantange. But Silva’s advantages in these areas are compounded by his significant reach advantage.
I don’t think anyone would argue that GSP could engage in a striking match with Silva, but Silva’s length is going to make it extemely hard for GSP to get close enough to make a solid takedown attempt, and his sprawl will make it even harder to finish.
I just don’t see how GSP can win a fight with Anderson.
by Jeff D. on Mar 10, 2011 11:31 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Silva's length is the only thing that worries me about the striking match
but GSP’s strike defence is seriously underrated. He has excellent head movement, and parries a lot of shots with his arms. I do think that GSP can get Silva down and avoid being submitted for 5 rounds but Silva’s BJJ would work Georges due to his length and size
by dagoldenmonkey on Mar 10, 2011 11:33 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t disagree with your assessment of GSP’s striking defense, but he’s never faced anyone who has close to the punching power of Anderson Silva. He can get hurt even if he partially blocks a shot. And I wouldn’t bet against Silva hitting GSP clean on a few occassions in a five-round fight.
Also, it’s important to remember that if GSP moves up to middleweight, he’s very likely going to be a bit slower than he was at 170 due to the increased muscle mass. This will probably make him easier to hit.
but Silva’s length is going to make it extemely hard for GSP to get close enough to make a solid takedown attempt, and his sprawl will make it even harder to finish.
I can’t recall seeing a single successful sprawl by Anderson in the UFC, can you?
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 11, 2011 12:32 AM EST up reply actions
Sarcasm?
Or did you miss the Maia fight?
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
www.badlefthook.com
by Drunken cutman on Mar 11, 2011 6:18 AM EST up reply actions
Neither, although I wasn’t thinking about them – good catch. Maia, for all his skill, does not have a shot remotely comparable to a high level wrestlers (in set-up, technique, execution or effectiveness), although he does have very effective takedowns from the clinch.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 11, 2011 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
You've gotta be kidding me.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 11:31 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Even if GSP does go to 185 & fights Silva
going back down to 170 might derail his prominence there. We’ve seen gain & cut champions falter in their career after those tactics.
Roy Jones for example, he pulled off one of the greatest weight mismatches in history when he beat Ruiz (not the greatest fight, but technical use of speed vs size). When he tried to move back down to his natural weight, his career was pretty much over. I’m sure age was a factor, but gaining mass & then losing it really messes with a fighter…especially at the upper echelon of their respective divisions.
Who's the only one here who knows illegal ninja moves from the government?
"That dude was legit, ponytails are a sign of nobility." TheFilt™
by tigerlee on Mar 10, 2011 11:32 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
I said exactly this on a thread on BE when I first heard about the “superfight”. I don’t really care to see it. Why screw up two divisions with a fight between two legends? Neither will benefit and one will potentially lose his mystique. I think Silva can go up to LHW if he wants to but GSP doesn’t have the size to move up. The biggest loser will be the UFC if this fight happens though. A win would simply reaffirm the GOAT label on the winner and the WW class would become a second class division in many people’s eyes.
Werdum beat Fedor, Dos Santos beat Werdum, Joaquim Ferreira beat Dos Santos. Therefore Ferreira is WAAAAY better than Fedor. Keep MMA math alive!
by crizzy on Mar 10, 2011 11:32 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
well um.... what happens if GSP wins?
its an awesome fight and its great for the sport, it’ll garner the mainstream attention that UFC 100 did and bring more eyes to this amazing sport we all love
plus its fucking interesting, anderson has shown wrestling is his weakness and he would be fighting arguably the fastest, most athletic and best wrestler of his career but who will be coming in at a size disadvantage
the guys are two of the greatest of all time, the losers legacy wont be tarnished at all and it could even set up potential rematches
simply put this fight is amazing
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
by milk72 on Mar 10, 2011 11:33 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
How does GSP get a take down on a guy that size
The length of Anderson is too much. I truly think Anderson could fight HW and be okay so how does a small WW have the ability to take him down. Yes Sonnen was able to, but Sonnen is a much bigger person than GSP
by MPDevils on Mar 10, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
people are underscoring gsp's strength, technical prowness and speed
he’ll get anderson down, his takedowns are too damn good
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
by milk72 on Mar 10, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
gsp would get tooled by quite a few middle weights.
Gsp’s skill set is suited for his division.
I think you are underscoring Anderson. Anderson smoked nate, who goes tit for tat with gsp in training.
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Mar 10, 2011 11:52 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Marquardt might hold his own on the feet with GSP, but gets tooled in wrestling. Aside from possibly Anderson, there are no MWs that would tool GSP.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 11, 2011 12:35 AM EST up reply actions
GSP will likely be a slower fighter at 185
With the exception of Manny Paquaio, an athlete in top condition who adds significant muscle mass will lose some speed. GSP’s takedown will not be nearly as fast as it was at 170. And he’ll be easier to hit.
"All things being equal, the bigger guy is going to win a fight"
The thing here is that all things aren’t equal at all, and that’s what makes this fight so interesting. They’re the two pound-for-pound best fighters in the sport with dramatically different skill sets and that makes this such an interesting fight.
I do agree that this is an incredibly risky move for GSP, though. A loss to Silva and he’s stuck as an undersized 185’er whos considered “just another guy” in that division, especially if Silva stops him.
by hoohoofred on Mar 10, 2011 11:34 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Another reason why this fight should happen at a catchweight. Definately below 180, around the 177 mark
by dagoldenmonkey on Mar 10, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
EXACTLY. These guys aren’t Sean Sherk and Matt Hughes.
by crazybones on Mar 10, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
When is Chael coming back
They should make Anderson/Chael 2 before any superfight.
170 is stacked too. Alves, Fitch, Story, Ellenberger, Condit, could all potentially be good fights for GSP
I try to be a role model for kids around the park. If some kid wants to grow dope, they can come talk to me, instead of growing dope 6 or 7 times through denial and error, they're going to get it right the first time and have some good dope. - Ricky
You can't tell me to not grow dope. It's like telling the NWA to stop being black.-Ricky
by RTCplayer on Mar 10, 2011 11:34 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I wouldn't put Story in that convo yet and Alves doesn't deserve it either.
Also fuck rematches for fights that were finished decisively.
Doesn't want it with Duece
by doonerthesooner on Mar 10, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
well if Story were to win, he would be in the mix
If Story beats Alves it will be his 6th win in a row. He beat Brian Foster, jesse Lennox, Nick Osipczak, Hazelett, Jonny Hendricks, and then Alves. Thats a pretty good six fight win streak.
But he probably won’t get past Alves
I try to be a role model for kids around the park. If some kid wants to grow dope, they can come talk to me, instead of growing dope 6 or 7 times through denial and error, they're going to get it right the first time and have some good dope. - Ricky
You can't tell me to not grow dope. It's like telling the NWA to stop being black.-Ricky
I suppose it would put him in the mix to fight a top ten guy or two but not able to argue for a title shot.
Doesn't want it with Duece
by doonerthesooner on Mar 10, 2011 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
Well if he were to beats Thiago
He has beaten the number 4 or 5 welterweight in the world and has a six fight win streak going.
I try to be a role model for kids around the park. If some kid wants to grow dope, they can come talk to me, instead of growing dope 6 or 7 times through denial and error, they're going to get it right the first time and have some good dope. - Ricky
You can't tell me to not grow dope. It's like telling the NWA to stop being black.-Ricky
If he beats Alves,
which he very well may, he is due a #1 contender fight if nothing else.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 11, 2011 12:36 AM EST up reply actions
Thank you
I have no interest in this fight at all. Sure its 2 of the pound for pound best in our sport fighting it out to see who is number 1 but our sport is different than most. I have no idea how much weight boxers cut (if any) because I don’t follow close enough, but jumping up or down 3-6 pounds and fighting for that belt is a lot different than jumping 15 pounds and fighting for that belt.
Follow me: @IISMASHII
by II SMASH II on Mar 10, 2011 11:35 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I just want to see GSP lose
I’m sick of the “best in the world” not finishing anyone in how many fights? While Anderson humiliates people, and not by laying on them. Don’t care if its smart, its boring as shit, and when he didn’t lay on the guy it was jab fuckin city, more entertaining yes, still boring.
by Solidus on Mar 10, 2011 11:37 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
HEY!
I like me some boxing! Nonito Donaire, look him up. Arguably #4 int he world.
But yea I understand what you mean by that statement….Klitchko brothers.
They made a video game about Yakuzas. It’s called Yakuza. And it’s about Yakuza
gocyborg.wordpress.com
by Krimson on Mar 10, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I do, but I love grappling, but not just layin on the dude and waiting
by Solidus on Mar 10, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
he’s not just waiting though. he’s actively looking to improve position and work for submissions too. prefacing a statement like that the same as the “im not racist, i have plenty of black friends but….” type of fallacy.
gsp has without question fought better opponents than silva. make sure you factor that in your opinion of his career.
by hewsdaddy on Mar 10, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i love Bjj. its my life.
Gsp’s submissions are lacking. he is training with the two best in the world right now, So I am sure they will get better. Look at the hardy fight for proof.
I honestly believe gsp lacks the will to “kill”. He just wants to win. Hence the Jab-a-thon, or not being able to sub hardy. He doesn’t excel at finishing because its not his first priority. Winning is, that’s a mental thing.
Its not always fun to watch people that take that approach.
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Mar 10, 2011 12:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
“i love Bjj. its my life.”
That’s very clear from literally every single post you make!
Check out Chester, an Xbox game being developed by a friend.
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by James Brady on Mar 10, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
lol
Some people love jiu jitsu , others ninjitsu. The Spice of Life Sir =)
You have no idea how many people give me the condescending “oh stand and bang” when I say I like finishes. That’s why I started the post out that way.
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Mar 10, 2011 1:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Expect nothing less from Snowden, If you say it enough maybe it will be true Jon. That you dont say shit just to stir the pot.
And this wont be another 400 comment article or nothing. You say shit just to grab attention and it works, atleast admit it.
Dont see how anyone could argue against this fight. Two best in the world fighting to see who the best is, we can see it, this isnt Aldo and Fedor who could never fight, they can fight each other.
So you want GSP to stay at WW so after Jake you can bitch about how he has nobody to fight?
If GSP doesnt want the fight then thats on him, but I dont see how fans can argue against the fight. Who wouldnt want to see the P4P best fight each other to really see who the best in the sport is.
Forget the money to be made, the PPV buys, the hype, forget what it would do for the sport of mma in the mainstream, it would get a good amount of attention, forget what it would do to charge the mma fanbase. Fuck all that, just being able to see the two best in the world fighting is what I want.
Dont see how any real mma fan wants to see GSP vs BJ again, or Fitch, or Kos, or who exactly will he fight Jon? Cause somehow if he doesnt move up and he fights and beats Jake, then fights BJ/Fitch, say they fight again and he fights the winner, at that point he wont have anyone to fight and you’ll be the first one saying that.
Your article will probably be GSP sucks and isnt fighting anyone, just so you can get 400 comments for your article.
by Aldo27 on Mar 10, 2011 11:37 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
“ADMIT THAT YOU POST ARTICLES FOR PEOPLE TO COMMENT ON, SNOWDEN! FUCKING ADMIT IT!!
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by James Brady on Mar 10, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
i'm stunned so many people agree with this
do we really wanna see gsp vs condit and anderson vs okami more than this matchup?
i mean gsp is arguably the best wrestler in the sport, and anderson’s weakness is wrestling
anderson may be bigger and a better striker, but gsp possesses the tools to beat the greatest fighter of all time. sure he’ll be an underdog but hes the most accomplished fighter in the world at 170 and this fight will arguably be for the title of the greatest mixed martial artist of all time
u guys really dont wanna see that? fuck all that divisional relevance talk and that okami deserves a title shot talk, this is a chance to see the biggest fight in mma history
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
by milk72 on Mar 10, 2011 11:38 AM EST reply actions 6 recs
I agree, I dont know how a single mma fan sits back and says I dont want this fight. I get why Snowden says it cause he wants to stir the pot, grab attention and get the page hits and comments, all his pieces are like that.
But real mma fans unless your a GSP fan and your scared he will lose, other then that why wouldnt you want to see this fight?
Its actually a fight that can be made. Two best in the worln the same org, fighting a weight class aprt, they can make this fight.
This isnt Aldo and Jon Jones who could be the top two P4P fighters in the next wave of fighters, they cant fight, we cant see whose the best out of them, but this fight we can, and the clock is ticking, its a once in a lifetime type fight and fans are saying no, I want GSP vs ?? and Silva vs Okami instead. Unbelievable.
You would figure if there was one thing in mma, one fight that mma fans would all unite behind and say we want it, this would be that fight. It amazes me some dont want to see this fight. Shocked.
by Aldo27 on Mar 10, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t want this fight because Anderson hasn’t cleaned out his division yet.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 10, 2011 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
Subo loves him some Yushin Okami.
Bolts from the Blue // "It's a league game, Smokey." - Walter Sobchak
Bloody Elbow // "Everybody underestimates the kick in the groin." - Bas Rutten
by Richard Wade on Mar 10, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
You want the Okami fight?
After he barely scraped past Munoz and Marquardt?
Have you seen Anderson/ Okami 1? It basically consisted of Anderson stuffing all of Yushin’s takedowns and kicking the crap out of him. Then, when Yushin FINALLY got a takedown, Anderson gave him a boot to the face, which purportedly he didn’t know was illegal.
At any rate, although I love Yushin, he hasn’t really made us as fans really want to see him fight Anderson for the belt, especially not when we have GSP/ Silva available.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
Damien finished Sonnen, and he gave Anderson a run for his money. You have been around too long and are too knowledgeable to use MMA math.
I don’t think GSP should have to go up as much as Anderson come down. Why penalize the smaller guy? I say we need this fight at 178-179, and yes it needs to happen.
What are you talking about?
I never even mentioned Maia.
I agree with the catchweight sentiment. Right smack in the middle, 177.5 IMO.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
MMA Math is surprisingly reliable.
@scb0212
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 10, 2011 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
Regardless, Yushin Okami is 1-0 against Anderson Silva (and not in a Matt Hamill is 1-0 against Jon Jones kind of way). And Yushin has made ME, as a fan, very interested to see if he can implement the “Sonnen + Sub Defense” game plan against Anderson.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 10, 2011 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
Jones/Hamill was going to end after the first round without the illegal elbows due to Matt’s shoulder. Still a loss for Jones, but we know what would have happened sans the 12-6 elbows. We don’t know what would have happened had Anderson not illegally upkicked Okami.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 10, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree
Anderson stuffed several takedowns and was kicking Okami’s ass standing. Okami did nothing from the top, and then got nailed with the infamous upkick.
Not too much different from Jones/ Hamill IMO.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
Actually
I would say that Anderson is 0-1 against Okami in a Jon Jones kind of way. Rumble on the Rock wasn’t the most organized promotion, and Anderson has said that due to the language barrier, he wasn’t aware that kicks to the head of downed opponents was illegal.
Considering that PRIDE & Icon Sport allowed them, I believe him.
Okami is nowhere near the wrestler Chael is. Chael thoroughly dominated him, and he struggled to take Munoz & Marquardt down even once.
I want Okami to get his shot, but think he should get a showcase fight in the time to make him look good. Fact is, he’s only looked good against Linhares in the last few years.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
He looked just fine against Marquardt.
Also, he’s the only blemish on Mark Munoz since he moved to 185.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 10, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
Ehhh
He got tagged quite a few times with hard punches by both Munoz & Marquardt. Not saying they’re bad fighters, but I just tend to think that they clipped Yushin, Anderson would likely hospitalize him.
Don’t get me wrong, I want Anderson to fight Okami, I won’t consider his career complete until they rematch. That said, GSP/ Silva is just so much more compelling. Give Yushin a showcase fight, against Wanderlei or Chris Leben or something. A winnable, name fight, to keep him active and make him look good.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
Okami always fucks those fights up, though.
He finally won a fight that he was told would be for a title shot. I think he’s due.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 10, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
Well
If GSP is insistent on taking time to bulk up for a catchweight/ middleweight fight, then maybe you roll the dice and make Silva/ Okami in the meantime.
I wouldn’t be entirely opposed to that. Although I will say, Dana’s title shot promises historically don’t mean all that much.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
thank you. and the thing is, Anderson has improved WAY MORE since then than Okami has.
i really don’t what the hype about this one is either. Okami would get snuffed
by phantom5691 on Mar 10, 2011 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
How can you be so sure?
We’ve seen what a good wrestler can do to Anderson for 23 minutes. Why couldn’t Okami do the same thing and not get triangled at the end?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 10, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
What makes you believe that Okami has the ability to do to Anderson what Chael did to Anderson? The one thing we learned from the Sonnen-Okami fight is that Okami is nowhere near the wrestler that Chael is.
True
But if Travis Lutter could get Anderson down I’d give Okami a shot, and Okami won’t gas like Lutter did.
"With gold thou boughtest Gýmir's daughter,
and so gavest away thy sword:
but when Muspell's sons through the dark forest ride,
thou, unhappy, wilt not have wherewith to fight."
~ Lokasenna
Few are
But I do not doubt Okami’s ability to dictate where that fight happens.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 10, 2011 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
Anderson stuffed the vast majority of Okami's takedown attempts in the 1'st fight,
and his wrestling has only improved since then.
Like I said before, Yushin isn’t really a takedown machine either.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
that was a good wrestler
that got a lot of help from steroids…
I agree
As aforementioned, I’m a big Okami fan. Despite that, I can recognize why he hasn’t gotten his shot yet. He’s either lost or been flat in victory over all his elite competition.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
As long as GSP fans won't admit he'll get smashed
The fight must go on! =)
by cyph on Mar 10, 2011 11:39 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
ehh
GSP vs. SIlva should happen….IF GSP lost to Silva…it would ruin his career…hell..he lost to Matt Serra and rebounded nicely….besides…I give GSP an very good shot at beating Silva….no way Silva stops that takedown.
Follow Me On Twitter@KelvinHunt
by Kelvin Hunt on Mar 10, 2011 11:42 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
*it wouldn't ruin
Follow Me On Twitter@KelvinHunt
by Kelvin Hunt on Mar 10, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
GSP would make the move permanent, so if he can’t beat Silvam he’s Rich Franklin’d.
@scb0212
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 10, 2011 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
All the reason why a catchweight makes sense.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
Demanding two men of disparate size square off isn’t sport – it’s spectacle.
Absolutely. It is the greatest spectacle. The importance of this fight far outweighs any argument that this isn’t the proper way to conduct business.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: this fight is worth a thousand Yushin Okamis and a thousand Jon Fitches. GSP could run through 170 five more times and it wouldn’t be as impressive as one win over Silva. Not even close.
by crazybones on Mar 10, 2011 11:43 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
my take
I don’t like the idea of holding the fight at middleweight, because I don’t think GSP has the size for long term success in the division.
The ideal way to make this fight is a catchweight where neither’s belt is on the line, because in reality both should remain champions in their respective divisions. Either that or contest the fight for a one time only belt at super welterweight, at 178 or so. GSP would conceivably not have to gain all the extra size to remain at mw and Silva rarely has to cut a lot of weight to make 185 anyways. This is really the best of all worlds option because both are suited perfectly as champions in their divisions.
by Austin Martin on Mar 10, 2011 11:44 AM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
I don't object to the content of the article...
but to the over-wrought and self-congratulatory style of the piece. Reads like Rossen on Sherdog.
by Nick_ on Mar 10, 2011 11:44 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
BJ goes up to fight GSP: No problem
GSP goes up to fight Silva: Bad for the sport
I would venture that the contrarian accusations are valid.
Then again I have casual fan friends who have stated that they will stop watching the sport if GSP got clowned by silva. So maybe GSP losing is bad for the entire sport of mma/the ufc/mankind.
Is the possibility of Georges losing a fight that frightening of a prospect to people?
People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant.
- Helen Keller
by The Blackula on Mar 10, 2011 11:47 AM EST via mobile reply actions 3 recs
You have friends that say what?
They are not fans at all. Also BJ is notorious for being reckless with his career. That’s why everyone loves him. GSP is incredibly conservative and he should be. Everyone loves him for winning and why should he change that?
"Clay "The Missing Link" Guida!!!"
by Adamantium007 on Mar 10, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
friend = best friends ex who still hangs around
Being a broad may bias her towards pretty boy georges, but I wouldn’t be surprised if some hardcores would like the sport less if gsp lost.
Didn’t bruce lee say something about marial artist not being content and to always look for new challenges, so waht if gsp loses, the man has won every rematch.
I am rooting for sheilds to upset the applecart now seeing as gsp fans are scared shitless with the possibilty of geoges taking another L.
Fighters, even the legendary ones lose from time to time. It is not blasphemous or cataclysmic just a fact of combat sports.
People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant.
- Helen Keller
by The Blackula on Mar 10, 2011 1:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
jonathan
just wanted to thank you for giving voice to my unconscious.
In a recent BE poll, I voted that Silva had unfinished business at 205 and I think it was basically because of a vague feeling in support of what you have said here.
It is essentially pyrotechnics, people want the explosion of two top champs going at it, where one of them will finally be beaten and the other will become a transcendent MMA demi-deity. However, the points you make are nothing but valid, there are significant differences in physcial stature which might cause difficulty against any other fighter, but when the fighter you are giving weight, height, reach and (possibly) power to is A. SIlva – this must stack the odds to a point where it is at the very least an entirely relevant question for GSP to pose – is this the right move for him?
Who knows what the flow will bring, but I for one am glad that someone out there is at the very least stopping to check the tracks that this particular hype train runs on… good work my friend, keep it up.
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
by rohedron on Mar 10, 2011 11:48 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
headlines a bit bombastic mind...
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
by rohedron on Mar 10, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Fixed
No one demanded "Sugar" Ray Leonard move up to fight Evander Holyfield
In boxing, how many times have you seen two champs(sometimes in two different weight classes) fight each other?
A lot more than never.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
by TheFilt on Mar 10, 2011 11:48 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
By 30lbs though?
For every MMA division, there’s 3 divisions in boxing. Not to mention the ridiculous amount of belts. But that argument we’ll save for Bad Left Hook.
They made a video game about Yakuzas. It’s called Yakuza. And it’s about Yakuza
gocyborg.wordpress.com
by Krimson on Mar 10, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Catchweight or bust
Neither guy should abandon their division.
Let’s see the fight at a catchweight of 177. Then they both go back to their respective weight classes and continue their reigns.
If GSP gives up the WW title, all future title holders will still seen “2nd best” & we’ll wonder how they would have faired against GSP. I don’t want the #1 contender to be champion. I want the champion to have beaten the champion.
"Who the fuck is this Bruz Malt Liquor?" -Dana White
by Bruz on Mar 10, 2011 11:49 AM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Sorry for the typo, working with swype on my cell…
"Who the fuck is this Bruz Malt Liquor?" -Dana White
by Bruz on Mar 10, 2011 11:51 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I absolutely love Swype.
Well, I love the idea. I prefer Shape Writer, it’s more accurate. I will never go back to using a keyboard/touchscreen keyboard that isn’t in that vein on my phone again.
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by James Brady on Mar 10, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
I hate the catchweight idea. If you’re gonna do this, you make it so Anderson is at his best and GSP is at his best. Otherwise what’s the fucking point?
by crazybones on Mar 10, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You hate the catchweight idea?
Even though Anderson could very feasibly make the weight, and GSP doesn’t seem to want to move up to 185?
Ludicrous.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If it doesn’t diminish Anderson, what’s the point? Catchweight only makes sense if you want to drain him to make it a “fairer” fight.
by crazybones on Mar 10, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Not really...
It makes sense, because if they’re going to fight, they should meet eachother in the middle. I don’t know why the hell you want to see a “diminished” Anderson, unless you hate him or are a huge GSP fanatic.
The catchweight mitigates the size difference, without making either man go out of their way to equalize the size difference.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t understand. Is the idea to make Anderson lose muscle so he can make a catchweight?
I mean… if he does it without diminishing himself, that’s the same as fighting 185. It makes no sense to hold the fight at an arbitrary weight.
It's not "arbitrary"
They’re meeting in the middle. GSP normally fights at 170, Anderson normally fights at 185. If they fight in the middle, it shows that Anderson isn’t this giant godzilla middleweight everyone’s calling him. GSP doesn’t have to put on a ton of weight to be competitive, and Anderson wouldn’t have to absolutely KILL himself to make the weight. Win/ win.
How is this so hard for you to understand? And why is it so important for you that they fight in a regular weight class?
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
i thought the entire
point of this post is that GSP isn’t going to be at his best in a weight division he’s never fought in before where he gives up numerous and significant physical advantages to the champ…
i guess that doesn’t compute tho eh?
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
by rohedron on Mar 10, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If GSP moves up to 185, he will still be the best version of himself. Nothing’s changed for him, he’s still the exact same fighter. He’ll just be swimming with bigger sharks.
by crazybones on Mar 10, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
by that logic
weight divisions are irrelevant as long as everyone is at their best no?
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
this is my last comment then i'm done violently disagreeing
gsp has won 31 consecutive rounds (he swept kos in the first fight in my book) he can beat anybody and its stupid to count him out against a guy who while still the greatest of all time may be slowing down, has shown cardio problems as of late, and is weak to wrestling
this fight sells itself and is amazing, we really cant have nice things can we guys
and gsps consecutive round streak is in my opinion one of the most amazing in sports and years from now will be looked at similarly to joe dimaggio’s hit streak
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
by milk72 on Mar 10, 2011 11:50 AM EST reply actions 7 recs
At middleweight, he would be downright small, even if he devoted six months to putting on 30 pounds of lean muscle.
It is not possible to put on 30 pounds of lean muscle within 6 months. Not even WITH the use of forbidden substances.
Go big red!
by pornflake on Mar 10, 2011 11:50 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Yes it would. Right around six months is actually the closest estimation for the goal, too.
Check out Chester, an Xbox game being developed by a friend.
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by James Brady on Mar 10, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You’ve convinced me.
Check out Chester, an Xbox game being developed by a friend.
SaberCats Examiner | SB Nation Bay Area | Niners Nation | Twitter
by James Brady on Mar 10, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Please tell me the secret.
I used to way a frail 145 lbs now I am 190. I’ve been working out at least 4 times a week for 2 years straight to get to this point.
"Clay "The Missing Link" Guida!!!"
by Adamantium007 on Mar 10, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That went much easier than I'd expected. Broscientists are usually much more stubborn.
Go big red!
by pornflake on Mar 10, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I really don’t deserve that kind of insult, friend.
Check out Chester, an Xbox game being developed by a friend.
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by James Brady on Mar 10, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
'Bro' isn't an insult, bro.
Seriously though: If you never worked out before you might end up gaining 5lbs per month for a while. If you went from total couch-potato into workout overdrive, given that you’re somewhere between 17 and 25 years old and male. Those ‘beginner gains’ don’t apply to somebody who’s been working out for most of his life.
Go big red!
by pornflake on Mar 10, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
im not your Pal , guy!
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Mar 10, 2011 1:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Actually, with steroids it would be possible. Scratch that.
Go big red!
by pornflake on Mar 10, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Why would GSP need to put on 30 lbs of lean muscle?
Anderson doesn’t weigh 220 lbs except when he is fat and out of shape off season.
If GSP but on 10-15lbs of muscle he’d be fine.
by jhf884 on Mar 10, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ha
“I would love, for once, to be on the popular side of the issue of the day. To bask in the adulation I can only assume comes to those with safe, conventional, and dull opinions”
Haha, wow. I like how the popular side of an issue automatically makes it the safe, conventional dull opinion. How do you manage to put up with us troglodytes??
by Kid_Roll on Mar 10, 2011 11:52 AM EST reply actions 6 recs
I tell ya
I hardly know what to do with the adulation that comes with being a big Zuffa fan.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 10, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
When reading the title w/o looking at the author
anyone else automatically think “This has got to be Snowden.”
by I Can't Feel My Face on Mar 10, 2011 11:55 AM EST reply actions
anderson silva
Everyone keeps talking about how gsp has no fights left at welterweight and that he needs to move up in weight to face some new challenges. Why isn’t anyone saying this about Anderson? Who is there left for Anderson to fight at middleweight other than Sonnen again? Yeah, I know Okami is the number 1 contendor but lets get real, thats a horrible fight…Why isn’t everyone clammoring for Anderson to move up, he has dominated everyone in his weight class even moreso than GSP, yet no one is pressuring Anderson…Forrest is probably the biggest 205er and in the staredown Anderson looked bigger than him…Anderson is absolutely massive and a fight against GSP would just be completely unfair…People that don’t know shit about fighting and the toll it takes on your body let alone being forced to gain a significant amount of weight in a matter of months just for one fight are calling GSP a pussy and it just goes to show that these people are completely ignorant…GSP has one interesting fight at middleweight and thats Anderson, whereas Anderson has a never ending list of potential opponents at 205 (shogun, rampage, rashad, jon jones)GSP is being forced into this outrageous fight because of idiots like Dana White and stupid fans that really don’t understand a thing about what goes into a fight other than the basic fight itself…GSP is not a pussy, just ask fitch, alves, hardy, koscheck, sherk, bj, serra, hughes…If anyone is a pussy it is the dumb fans who began watching mma 2 years ago…they seem to be the ones that take the biggest offense in situations like this…Snowden is completely right, I don’t think I’ve ever read a Snowden article without completely agreeing every single time…
by iceman_33 on Mar 10, 2011 11:56 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Well Andy has moved up twice already, other than that we're in agreement.
Doesn't want it with Duece
by doonerthesooner on Mar 10, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Why isn’t everyone clammoring for Anderson to move up, he has dominated everyone in his weight class even moreso than GSP
Does the name Chael Sonnen ring a bell? Yes, Anderson won, but I wouldn’t say that Anderson dominated him.
Other than that, I mostly agree – I’d rather see Anderson at 205 than GSP at 185, if someone’s moving.
None more gangster.
Tweeter!
Meh. I could care less about this fight.
But seriously, since when do we care about size? People readily accepted the fights Fedor has taken throughout his career and when he just couldn’t do it anymore they didn’t really seem to think much of it when he lost to Bigfoot—he was just done.
This doesn’t suck more to MMA than any fight Fedor ever took undersized against a tough opponent. It’s a freakshow fight, plain and simple.
by Unabomberman on Mar 10, 2011 11:56 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Isn't that picture photo-shopped?
The height difference looks way bigger than 4 inches, which is what it should be based on the UFC reported heights.
by jhf884 on Mar 10, 2011 11:57 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Like you more and more lately, Snowden ... agree with you here ...
.. but the Snowden-on-Snowden suckfest in the intro really should be 18+.
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by James Brady on Mar 10, 2011 11:57 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
This is what I pictured (For any Conan fans out there)
When I read this article.
by Kid_Roll on Mar 10, 2011 12:15 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
?
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by James Brady on Mar 10, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Ha
No, Max on Max was a skit about Conan’s drummer making love to himself on his own adult channel.
by Kid_Roll on Mar 10, 2011 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh I know. The image I posted is more of to convey being in love with oneself more than telling Snowden “HEY, GO FUCK YOURSELF, BUDDY!” cause I have nothing against him.
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by James Brady on Mar 10, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm Ron Burgandy.
Go F*ck yourself San Diego.
"Clay "The Missing Link" Guida!!!"
by Adamantium007 on Mar 10, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Poop. You poopmouth, with poop out of your mouth!
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by James Brady on Mar 10, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Jonathan Snowden wrote this song for himself. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fV8vB1BB2qc
(now I’m just giving you shit, Snowden)
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by James Brady on Mar 10, 2011 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
Dr. House to Cuddy
“contrary to what you learned in Hebrew school, sometimes the bigger they are the harder they kick your ass”
by IpullguardIRL on Mar 10, 2011 11:58 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
Great post Snowden.
Great read.
I disagree 100%, but you did not come off as a contrarian.
I hope this fight happens, if it doesn’t…oh well. We’ve all been dissapointed before.
Don't let my support confuse you, I am in fact a fan of the Giants.
by tito (eight and oh) on Mar 10, 2011 11:58 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
This is what I have been saying to my friends. This is a bad fight for GSP.
by tharv3 on Mar 10, 2011 11:59 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
For GSP? Maybe. But is it bad for the sport?
by Aldo27 on Mar 10, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
All this “but BJ will fight anybody!” stuff is ridiculous. GSP is a professional athlete and MMA is a professional sport. GSP is not played by John Saxon and the fights don’t take place in Kowloon Walled City. Yeah, BJ got a lot of MMA fans excited by jumping back and forth between weight classes and fighting much bigger guys, but did that help his career? A fighter’s career is not the same as a fighter’s legend. Maybe BJ is more legendary and popular because he did those things, but he also expended precious months of his athletic prime fighting in meaningless matches and put himself at greater risk of injury by fighting out of his natural weight class.
GSP doesn’t think that like BJ. He isn’t a gladiator, he’s a businessman who is among the best in the world at his job. He is making a huge amount of money doing what he’s doing now. If he’s been sensible with his money, he probably doesn’t need to work again for the rest of his life. If GSP decides that taking a fight against Silva is not the best thing for his health, or his career, or his earning potential over time, then that is a perfectly sensible decision that does not reveal his character or the extent of his courage.
by Finian1 on Mar 10, 2011 11:59 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
If GSP had all these challengers at WW to deal with and SIlva said fuck it after Okami I’m going to LHW I’d be like ok I can live with it, I want to see the fight but I can deal with no seeing it, but Silva isnt going to LHW and GSP has nobody to fight at WW, so why would anyone not want to see this fight?
You can say you dont like it, you dont care about it, you dont want to see it, its unfair, but BAD FOR THE SPORT? Thats hte little piece in the headline to draw you in so you can bitch about it. Bad for the sport? Wow. Not unfair, or I dont care about it, not a good fight, bad for the sport?
If having the two best fight each other in what would be one of hte biggest UFC fights, mma fights ever, would do a big PPV rate, would sell 55k tickets in Toronto in 1 minute, they could do 15 mill gate, a mill plus PPV buys, draw attentino from ESPN and mainstream media, have the entire mma world drooling to see this fight, bring exposure to the sport, if thats bad for the sport then what’s good?
by Aldo27 on Mar 10, 2011 11:59 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
One thing is for certain.
If anyone was going to write a self-aggrandizing argument against the greatest money-making, attention-grabbing fight in the history of the sport, it’d be Snowden.
Reporting from inside a padded cage at MMAmadman.com.
by MMAmadman on Mar 10, 2011 12:00 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
So true, I feel like such a a mark for falling for this article
Back to ignoring Snowden and his controversy fodder.
People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant.
- Helen Keller
by The Blackula on Mar 10, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
GSP is quite big for a WW.
Just b/c he stays in shape out of camp doesn’t mean he isn’t big. The dude is 190+ of lean muscle before camp starts.
Anderson gets fat out of camp. Anderson in shape isn’t close to 220 lbs.
by jhf884 on Mar 10, 2011 12:02 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
actually yes he is
he was in shape before he fought forrest and had to cut about 15 pounds to make 205, you are just making something up off the top of your head thinking no one will catch it, get your facts straight and don’t insult our intelligence
by iceman_33 on Mar 10, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t have any proof -just as I suspect you don’t either - but I’m not making anything up. I’m going off what I have heard from people who know more than me.
Sores (I think) said that Anderson doesn’t really cut weight, but diets down. Plus, the Forrest fight was at 205.
by jhf884 on Mar 10, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Darn it. Wasn’t supposed to have strikethrough there.
by jhf884 on Mar 10, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The dash makes fools of us all.
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by James Brady on Mar 10, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Also, where do you get off? Do YOU have any proof? My money is on you being just another internet asshole.
by jhf884 on Mar 10, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
considering all the sponsorship $$$ and Market value
GSP holds in US and CAN it would be in his best interest to remain dominant in his own division…moving up in weight to get whoooped by Silva and get lost in limbo is a BAD business move…so I dont blame him for having 2nd thoughts
by MMA_Revolution on Mar 10, 2011 12:04 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I bet Jake Shields is paying people to continually interview GSP about this.
So it’s in his head. And taking his focus off Shields. It’s all part of The Upset ™
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by James Brady on Mar 10, 2011 12:05 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
WOuld Shields move up to fight Silva if he beat GSP?
Would they do an instant rmeatch with GSP? Would he fight Fitch, BJ? Would he have to clean out the div and get a few wins to prove he is worthy and then fight Silva?
by Aldo27 on Mar 10, 2011 12:09 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
If Shields won, he would most definitely not move up.
GSP would probably fight someone not on his level, like Kampmann or the loser of Alves-Story.
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by James Brady on Mar 10, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No one demanded “Sugar” Ray Leonard move up to fight Evander Holyfield or Michael Spinks. We simply marveled at his skill and panache.
Five weight world champion Ray Leonard?
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
by Jack.Barrington on Mar 10, 2011 12:10 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
A fair point
But the divisions are very different between the two sports.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
www.badlefthook.com
by Drunken cutman on Mar 10, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
Ray was a welterweight. After he got hurt he fought only once in 5 years. It was only after that long layoff he came back heavier. No one was demanding he bounce around. He was fucking Ray Leonard. They came to him.
by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 10, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
When Ray was a welterweight, especially following the win over Hearns, everybody in the sport was screaming for a Leonard/Hagler fight at 160. Everybody.
Ray may not have moved up at that point, but it was still demanded of him just as it’s being demanded of GSP.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
by Jack.Barrington on Mar 11, 2011 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
Who demanded GSP-Silva? I don’t recall any significant outcry and the fans are purchasing GSP’s welterweight fights in record numbers.
by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 11, 2011 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
Read the replies to this thread. There are a lot of fans who want this fight and who aren’t content with GSP continuing to fight obviously outmatched opposition at WW.
The fact that GSP still sells at WW doesn’t mean fans don’t want to see him in more challenging fights.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
by Jack.Barrington on Mar 12, 2011 6:32 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t think you’re deliberately contrarian Johnathan, I think you have a deep sub-conscious need for attention and your words come out delivering such need the only way they know how.
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by Dooda on Mar 10, 2011 12:10 PM EST reply actions 12 recs
I didn’t think I needed to see Hendo (large middleweight) and Shields (a true welter) fight either, but alas, we have our result.
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by Dooda on Mar 10, 2011 12:11 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Hendo is a large middleweight? When did that happen? Dude is undersized in every weightclass he fights in.
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by James Brady on Mar 10, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hendo was a big middleweight.
He’s said on multiple occasions that the cut was hard for him.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
But saying he’s a big middleweight generally implies that he was big in comparison to others. The cut was bad on him, but that’s just because everybody is different. I don’t think Hendo was significantly bigger than most, including Shields.
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by James Brady on Mar 10, 2011 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
Shields is a natural 170er
Dan dwarfed him in that fight.
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by Derek Suboticki on Mar 10, 2011 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
Totally disagree.
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by James Brady on Mar 10, 2011 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Sorry. I didn't have my camera on me.
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by James Brady on Mar 10, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
That would be the day that they both made weight, yes?
Get a picture from the day after when Jake is the same weight and Dan is nearing 200.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Mar 10, 2011 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
Looks pretty even to me, Derek.
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by James Brady on Mar 10, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Second picture.
Look at Dan’s forearm, all juicy and full of water weight. Then look at Jake’s.
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by Derek Suboticki on Mar 10, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
Have no idea when that second picture is from. You’re not convincing me, at his point … I mean, I obsessed over that fight. Was one of my most anticipated fights, and a huge letdown btw. Dan is not a big middleweight, he just has trouble making the weight without being exhausted, but that’s more of a product of his age and the like at this point. The guy is significantly undersized at light heavyweight.
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by James Brady on Mar 10, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
In a battle between undersized LHW and natural WW, the undersized LHW is bigger.
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by Derek Suboticki on Mar 10, 2011 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
Except when the undersized LHW is fighting there because he’s just a fucking boss and isn’t big for the previous weight class. Because Hendo is not a big MW. And Shields is on the cusp of MW/WW. He’s had problems with cutting/cardio at 170 before the Kampmann fight, too.
BJ Penn is an undersized light heavyweight, you know. That doesn’t mean he’s a big middleweight. Obviously that’s an extreme, so don’t make your reply “Well BJ Penn is a lightweight!!!” as though it’s pertinent.
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by James Brady on Mar 10, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
BJ
Has probably never weighed 205 in his entire life. Dan has a history of success at 205.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Mar 10, 2011 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
205 is Hendo's best weight for sure.
I think he’s a bit of a gasser at 185.
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-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
Which means literally nothing to the argument. BJ is only an illustration tool. Dan is significantly undersized there and overcomes it. My point is solely that Dan is not a big middleweight and was not significantly bigger than Shields. He didn’t “dwarf” anybody.
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watching that fight, Hendo looked significantly bigger. Photos prove absolutely nothing. You have to watch the fight to get the idea. If he doesn’t look that big to you then that’s okay, to me, Dan is a pretty big MW, or a slightly small LHW. He’s roughly the same as Anderson Silva, but in a completely different body.
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Guess we were watching different rights.
Silva is huge compared to Dan.
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No man, different people see things differently. Hendo’s body is thick and tank like, Anderson is slinky like. They’re both big, but in different ways that makes it hard to compare. I see Hendo as being pretty big, but whatever, I honestly don’t care that you feel otherwise, or want to prove you wrong etc.
A lot of people claim Silva looked similar in size to Forrest, the fight I saw Forrest was way way bigger, noticeably an entire weight class bigger, but others just saw it differently. I thought Anderson looked really big next to Irvin.
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I actually think Shields is better suited for middleweight.
Just my opinion, though. Size/ strength was not really an issue against Mayhem, Lawler, or Hendo, who are all solid middleweights.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
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by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
“No one demanded “Sugar” Ray Leonard move up to fight Evander Holyfield or Michael Spinks."
You mean the same Ray Leonard who fought at 147, 154, 160, 168, and 175 pounds?
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
by Mike Fagan on Mar 10, 2011 12:12 PM EST reply actions 11 recs
Just to complete the analogy a bit more…
When Leonard fought Hagler, the jump from 147 to 160 lb. was 9% in weight.
If GSP fights Silva, the jump from 170 to 185 would be…9% in weight.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
by Mike Fagan on Mar 10, 2011 12:15 PM EST up reply actions 9 recs
I think the boxing model
fits, but doesn’t. Yes weight difference affects striking but I think the biggest problem it has in MMA is grappling. Being able to hold someone, carry someone else weight and even execute the basics in wrestling, all have serious problems once weight difference comes into play. Yeah, I can put on 15lbs but my body isn’t familiar to combat with the extra pounds.
by Riney on Mar 10, 2011 12:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’m not the one who introduced the boxing analogy.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
by Mike Fagan on Mar 10, 2011 12:41 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
But Ray Leonard fought his whole career at a single weight before leaving the sport. He fought once in five years due to an injury. When he came back he was much larger, a product of age and inactivity. He didn’t hop around weight classes to make fights. When you are a big enough star, they come to you. Witness Roberto Duran coming to find Ray.
by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 10, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
None of this contradicts the idea of elite fighters moving weight classes to fight in great fights, and only shows that it is possible and even highly important.
Of the four fights in his career he didn’t win, three were above his natural weight. I think it says everything about a great fighter moving above his ideal weight.
by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 10, 2011 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
But weren’t these 3 fights after 5 years older and inactive? GSP is currently in his prime and younger than Silva.
Reporting from inside a padded cage at MMAmadman.com.
I’m just providing some information about Ray Leonard to people who don’t know much about one of combat sports’ true living artists.
by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 10, 2011 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
Nonsense. You’re providing information only in such a way to support your argument. Doing so is one thing, but acting like some sort of bringer of enlightenment is completely noxious.
by TheRage on Mar 10, 2011 3:55 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Is there a way to present Ray’s career that is different than the way I did above? He was the greatest fighter of his generation at welterweight. His return was less successful as he navigated new weight classes.
by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 10, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
an aged Sugar Ray’s losses certainly don’t say “everything about a great fighter moving above his ideal weight” in regards to GSP
Reporting from inside a padded cage at MMAmadman.com.
by MMAmadman on Mar 10, 2011 4:03 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
He got old.
Those 2 losses were the last fights of his career. One of them was in 1997. This isn’t an insignificant details you are leaving out here.
Oh yeah and, when he went up in weight he beat Hagler at 160.
Anderson Silva moved up to light heavyweight and beat the former champ. I really think you’re discounting a well-prepared, bulked-up GSP’s potential. Travis Lutter had Silva mounted and Chael Sonnen beat him from pillar to post before he brainfarted.
Reporting from inside a padded cage at MMAmadman.com.
That’s highly misleading. Two of those three fights were at the end of his career, and the third was a draw, also near the end of his career. Would fighting at his “ideal weight” have resulted in better results? Maybe, but age was clearly a factor by then. You also ignore the fact that victories above a natural weight class are given great respect within the historical perspective. There is great opporunity as well as great liability with moving up in weight. If someone wanted to be completely safe from losing, maybe they should simply not compete at all.
by TheRage on Mar 10, 2011 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He only competed above his natural weight class after his return. How is that misleading? Age is a funny thing. Ray was 31 when he returned and 34 when he fought Terry Norris. Perceptions of what “old” means have shifted a lot post Foreman and post Couture.
by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 10, 2011 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
For every Randy Couture you’re going to have a half dozen Wanderlei Silvas. Couture and Foreman are exceptions – not the rule.
Bob Arum thinks I'm a white Nazi skinhead even though I'm a brown grad student (with hair)
I agree. But the perception persists among many fans.
by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 11, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
My thoughts exactly.....
Leonard, a welterweight, fought Hagler, the Middleweight champion, in their biggest fight… Not sure how that one is used to say GSP shouldn;t move up; if anything it’s the opposite.
I agree, although technically Leonard only went as high as 168 I think. Still, the point stands.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
by Jack.Barrington on Mar 10, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Unless wiki is wrong, he won the WBC light heavyweight (175 lb.) title from Donny Lalonde in 1988.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
by Mike Fagan on Mar 10, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It was the LHW title but there was a contract stipulation that said Lalonde (a natural LHW) had to come in at 168 or less.
That was Leonard’s only fight at LHW with Lalonde coming in at 167 and Leonard 165/166 I think.
Like I said though it doesn’t really matter considering his success at middleweight, especially with the % in weight examples you posted above.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
by Jack.Barrington on Mar 10, 2011 12:23 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
To bask in the adulation I can only assume comes to those with safe, conventional, and dull opinions.
How’s the weather up there on your high horse Snowden?
by macrazy on Mar 10, 2011 12:16 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Add the chracters to this exchange
Sir, I believe the people are revolting!!!
Your right they stink on ice.
I've got something to say; it better to burn out than to fade away!!!
Wandy, Hendo, Vitor and Chael; the Berlin Wall of the Middle Weight top 10. Spitting, sensitive, sandy Brits (MB) need not apply.
Nerdsole Wars; X Box 4 life.
Inconceivable!!!!!
I've got something to say; it better to burn out than to fade away!!!
Wandy, Hendo, Vitor and Chael; the Berlin Wall of the Middle Weight top 10. Spitting, sensitive, sandy Brits (MB) need not apply.
Nerdsole Wars; X Box 4 life.
Penn vs Anderson
This is the fight that should happen. BJ is always willing to move up, let Anderson come down. Make it happen at 178ish. Penn can take him to a draw and finish fucking up the standings.
by Riney on Mar 10, 2011 12:17 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
If this fight doesn’t happen now people will agonize over it never being made five years from now.
by nastyem on Mar 10, 2011 12:17 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
I am one of the few who don’t want GSP vs Silva. There is no point – Silva will win easily, the size difference would be insurmountable. It would be better just to leave them each dominant in their respective weight class. I understand that this would be WONDERFUL for the P4P rankings, but then we lose GSP at welter and have to remember that he could still be champion when we are forced into Fitch or Koscheck fight.
And for what it's worth ...
… I just don’t want this fight. I don’t particularly care about either guy (in fact, I dislike one of them) but even from a technical standpoint, I don’t really need to see it. These guys are in different worlds in my mind and I don’t need to see one cross over into the other two see who is better.
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Anderson Go Down
I have next to no interest in the greatest fighter to ever live fighting a WW @ MW. I would love to see the fight if Anderson can make it to 170 or @ least to 175-178. Anderson appears very large @ MW and is a dangerous fucking fight for GSP. @ UFC 112, they said he would go down to 170 to fight Rush. I am interested in the fight if its on a level playing field, but I don’t see it as being level if an average sized WW bulks up a little bit and moves to MW.
I agree on more than one level
One: If this fight happens I will be terrified for gsp cause I am a huge fan. I feel his nerves when he fights that said he will have to fight the perfect fight to win (get him down controll gnp bla bla ) Andy on the other side has to land a single punch to someone with a head half the size of his own. This doesnt seem fair does it? This is why there is weight classes, Size doesnt make you stronger or weaker in strength necessarily, what it does give you is a increase ability to take damage and give damage, Being bigger gives you bigger joints, skull, hands, feet ,thickness of bone and gives you better leverage with larger tendon and ligament size. In the gym anderson cannot out lift gsp in the gym but the differnce in there size on all levels makes it much easy for Andy to hurt gsp. Al tho gsp has better take downs than Chael his ground and pound will be less effective do to shorter torso he will have more trouble reaching the longer Andy.
Second: If this fight happens and say Gsp does win Andersons poor ppv value is now none extent, I dont have to get in to why. More likely say gsp is doing well then get popped and just like that its over or gets demolished you will have millions of bleeding hearts and they will have lost there invincible hero and they will be mad after that this fight was put togather thell turn on dana say it was unfair. Or worse gsp loses then trys to caught wieght to go back down and hes not the same now hes stuck being a middle weight and cant beat andy ufc loses biggest ppv draw.(PEOPLE FORGET WHAT POUND FOR POUND MEANS AND THIS FIGHT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT) wHY IS GSP BETTER THAN ANDY PFP BECAUSE IF GSP WAS 6.2 AND WAILKED AROUND AT 230 PFP GSP FOR THE SAME AMOUNT OF WEIGHT WOULD CRUSH ANDY) THe gsp of reality is is around 5.10 and walks around at 193 or so PFP speaking he would have to be well beyond just a little above andy pfp ability when were measuring mass that saying all skills are equal. FOR GSP TO TALK THIS FIGHT HE WOULD HAVE TO HAVE BIGG BALLS. I hope it would be for his own acheivments and merrit and not for us or Dana wallet.
ink I'm missing something
Why is it so obvious the best WW wrestler with great sub defense can’t, good gnp, very solid standup… has no chance again Silva who has shown he has a hard time against wrestlers. I understand gsp is smaller and has a major reach disadvantage , but is it so obvious gsp’s takedowns will be stuffed and gsp will be prevented from coming in to attempt the takedown? I think AS will win but besides for Chael, this is AS best fight.
by Joshro on Mar 10, 2011 12:31 PM EST via mobile reply actions
What I'm getting from this thread
“Look. The fighters are puppets for my amusement. Whatever weight, whatever style, whatever combination of fighters – as long as it pleases me, it should happen, no matter how it might affect their careers.”
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 10, 2011 12:31 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
It’s a balance between what you said and giving the fans what they want – the fighters are (kind of) puppets in that their livelihood is made because we’re willing to pay them to do it.
None more gangster.
Tweeter!
But how many people are going to boycott AS or GSP fights because this fight doesn’t happen?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 10, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
What I'm getting from this thread
“Georges St. Pierre is my favorite fighter, and I don’t want to see him lose. I would rather he fight a string of contenders that he has already beaten at 170 lb.”
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
by Mike Fagan on Mar 10, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions 8 recs
I love them both and think it would be an interesting fight, but I just don’t mark out over this bout.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 10, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
GSP is my favorite fighter.....
and I agreed with many points stating that he has more to lose and less to gain than Silva. BUT, it seems to me, although I could be wrong on this, that the majority of fans would expect Silva to beat GSP. If that’s the case, then GSP actually has less to lose. If he moves up and fights the better P4P fighter at a weight disadvantage and loses, it shouldn’t hurt him that much. But if he wins, it would vault him ahead of Anderson as the best in the sport, possibly of all-time.
Even if that's true
I don’t see anything wrong with that position.
For GSP fans, watching GSP win is the product they want.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
“GSP and Anderson are the first truly dominant champions in modern MMA, and they’re of similar size. This fight is important like no other fight in MMA has ever been.”
by crazybones on Mar 10, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
How badly would a loss to Anderson affect GSP, though?
If he lost, the narrative would just be “Oh, Anderson’s way bigger, and he’s Anderson.” not “Boy, does GSP suck or what”?
Nothing ventured nothing gained. Imagine how HUGE of an accomplishment if GSP were to beat Anderson. He would surely go down as the greatest fighter thus far in MMA.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
What I'm getting from this thread
“Everyone needs to protect GSP’s legacy!”
It’s a sport. We’re fans. We want to see the best go up against the best and see who wins. Legacies will sort themselves out over time.
I wouldn’t say the fighters are puppets, but to put it bluntly, they ARE fighting for everyone’s amusement. Is anyone putting down $55 so these guys can fight without being able to watch it for entertainment? That money we pay allows us to see the fight and UFC’s business is to put on fights we’ll pay to see.
If GSP says that he can’t put on the weight to go up to MW, then that’s one thing. But if he doesn’t want to because he’s afraid he might lose, then that’s something else entirely and those types of questions haunt Roy Jones, Jr.’s legacy and have been haunting Floyd Mayweather’s legacy.
I don’t know the source of GSP’s apprehension, but as a fan of MMA I want to see the best fighters fight each other. I want to see fighters push themselves and test their limits. GSP is supremely talented and skilled, but if he beats Shields, then what’s left?
by JiltedEmu on Mar 10, 2011 12:57 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Many, many punches.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 10, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Do you really want to see that list? It is epic in length.
by VirtualBalboa on Mar 10, 2011 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
Look at what you done did now
They made a video game about Yakuzas. It’s called Yakuza. And it’s about Yakuza
gocyborg.wordpress.com
You know what the funniest part about this whole situation is?
All the people on here that want this fight to happen are more than likely the ones who will bitch about how “boring” the fight was after GSP wrestles Silva to a UD, like he does with every superior striker.
Nothing like wild conjecture to add to a discussion.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
by Mike Fagan on Mar 10, 2011 12:43 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Probably da realest shit I eva heard
They made a video game about Yakuzas. It’s called Yakuza. And it’s about Yakuza
gocyborg.wordpress.com
CATCHWEIGHT!!!!!
Come on this is the obvious answer. Silva would be at a huge disadvantage at WW and GSP would be at a huge disadvantage at MW. Fight at 177.5 and i think it’s quite fair.
Catchweight = no belt on the line
Severely takes away from GSP’s motivation to take the fight.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 10, 2011 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
There’s absolutely no reason for GSP to move up sans the glory of becoming one of the few to hold UFC gold in two weight classes.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 10, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
Except for beating Anderson Silva- the greatest UFC champion of all time, right?
by BilboMcFonzie on Mar 10, 2011 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
Does he even want to be MW champ, though? Marq fights there and if he were then hes stuck at MW.
GSP wouldn’t need to permanently change anything up too drastically just to fight at 7 lbs higher he could just cut less weight if he wanted to.
A couple of years ago GSP said.............
He would eventually move up to MW, then to LHW.
by ONE HIT QUIT on Mar 10, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, come on.
GSP’s “motivation to take the fight”?
How about money, status, legacy, etc? Belts mean nothing. There doesn’t have to be a title on the line for it to be a 5- round fight. I just don’t understand why people are making things this ha
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
I've been saying for many months now that I don't want to see this fight.
I enjoy watching GSP dominate the WW division. Given his PPV numbers, I’d say that a lot of other people enjoy that, too.
I don’t want GSP to move up to MW.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Here's my take on the whole thing
On some level, I agree with Snowden. This superfight could be bad for the sport. It matches two of the most popular, talented fighters in mma against each other. Both guys are on incredible win streaks and look unstoppable. However, if this fight takes place, one will lose, and an L on any mixed martial artists record is terrible. A lot of casual fans won’t look at the loser the same way, for some reason ( I never understood the mindset of the “casual fan”).
On top of this, everyone is jumping on the bandwagon for this fight to happen, when it really doesn’t have to happen. The reason Pacquiao vs. Mayweather is such a popular idea is because it’s pretty much the last boxing match anyone really wants to see. I’m not really a boxing fan, and even I’d pay good money to see that fight. However, people are pushing for Silva vs. GSP like it’s the last great fight that can happen in the world of mixed martial arts. As if there aren’t many more intriguing fights to come. The sport is still young and it is still on the rise. I’ll be on board for high profile superfights like this if the sport ever starts to lose its popularity and comes close to dying.
Really, the best case scenario for these two would be for GSP to move up to 185 if he defeats Shields and Silva to move up to 205 (since Machida’s no longer the champion) if he beats Okami. This gives them both new and intriguing matches that people will want to see. New fighters for these two to fight, since that seems to be a big concern for most fans.
For those of you who took the time to read this, I thank you.
The reason Pacquiao vs. Mayweather is such a popular idea is because it’s pretty much the last boxing match anyone really wants to see.
This just isn’t true though.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
by Jack.Barrington on Mar 10, 2011 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
It's the only fight that casual boxing fans want to see.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
True for myself
A casual boxing fan.
Don't let my support confuse you, I am in fact a fan of the Giants.
by tito (eight and oh) on Mar 10, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
Same here pretty much.
I peruse bad left hook every once in a while, and will catch the bigger fights with my buddies. But Pacman/ PBF is the real money fight.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
As it stands today
It’s the only fight for the sport of Boxing that I would pay to see.
Don't let my support confuse you, I am in fact a fan of the Giants.
by tito (eight and oh) on Mar 10, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
Same here
I’ll go to watch boxing matches over at friends houses when they buy them, but I would go WAY out of my way to make sure I saw Pacquiao/ Mayweather.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
That’s always been the case with casual boxing fans, although even then I think you’re wrong as even the most casual of fans are still interested in almost any Floyd or Manny fight.
Still, it certainly won’t be the last boxing match anybody wants to see. The sport’s history tells us that much.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
by Jack.Barrington on Mar 10, 2011 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
That's fair.
I just mean that it’s the only real BIG money fight. Pacquiao can draw, and so can Floyd, but the numbers they would draw fighting eachother are astronomical. Several million PPV buys, easily.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah that fight would be insanely big right now. I’m not confident we’ll see it while both are still in their prime unfortunately.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
by Jack.Barrington on Mar 10, 2011 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
Me either.
And i’m done waiting. If it happens, great. But I won’t be following all the hype anymore.
The ball’s in Floyd’s court, IMO.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
Hopefully
With all these fairweather boxing fans, it’ll build the sport up as people look at Miguel Cotto and Shane Mosely who was suppposed to fight Andre Berto and now he’s going to fight Victor Ortiz who fought Marcos Maidana who lost to Amir Khan WHO TRAINS WITH MANNY PACQIUAO! 6 DEGREES OF MANNY PACQIUAO!!!!
But seriously, I really hope all the “lesser known” fighters get their shine and then more highly anticipated boxing matches occur. I kinda wanna see Cotto/Mayorga but I’ll be cheap and settl efor Martinez/Dzinziruk
They made a video game about Yakuzas. It’s called Yakuza. And it’s about Yakuza
gocyborg.wordpress.com
I agree
The Martinez fight is solid, that guys a stud.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
Oh my gosh, I think I actually agree with Snowden....
I think GSP should only be going up in weight to take the fight if he truly wants to. I think he shouldn’t have to pander to fan pressure like you are saying, but I’m sure the fan pressure definitely ways heavy on his decision. But I for one will not hate on him if he decides to stay at 170. It would be just as dangerous for him to move up weight then Anderson Silva move down weight. But everybody loves a p4p champion so people will want to see it happen at catchweight.
All in all it is GSP’s call. He is an extremely gifted fighter and if he decided to stay at 170 nothing would change that.
On a side note, I kinda like the mystery that there is no best fighter in the world.
Someone in this thread is rec'ing everything haha
I try to be a role model for kids around the park. If some kid wants to grow dope, they can come talk to me, instead of growing dope 6 or 7 times through denial and error, they're going to get it right the first time and have some good dope. - Ricky
You can't tell me to not grow dope. It's like telling the NWA to stop being black.-Ricky
It’s me – so many good arguments about GSP being a coward here, I can’t keep count.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 10, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
damn
If GSP is a coward than what am I?
I try to be a role model for kids around the park. If some kid wants to grow dope, they can come talk to me, instead of growing dope 6 or 7 times through denial and error, they're going to get it right the first time and have some good dope. - Ricky
You can't tell me to not grow dope. It's like telling the NWA to stop being black.-Ricky
WelterWeight division IS BROKEN (stale)?
Unlike like many other pound for pound kings, GSP’s resume shows that he has taken on top contenders fight after fight (including welterweight fighters whose own names appear on many pound for pound lists) and he has dominated them all. Former pound for pound greats, on the other hand, had their fair share of fights against men who didn’t belong in the same ring or cage. Even the great Fedor Emelianenko took fights off by stepping in the ring against past their prime heavyweights like Mark Coleman or "freakshows" like Hong-Man Choi. GSP has not had the same opportunity to take fights off. Contenders like Alves, Fitch, Koscheck, Hughes and Penn have kept him on his game. And it is probably this reason that many now consider GSP the best Mixed Martial Artist competing today, and perhaps, the best mixed martial artist of all time.
And yet, many fans seem turned off by GSP. Not only because of his in-ring performance and, what some might call, his a "safety-first" style of combat, but also because of GSP’s domination of the welterweight division itself. Fans seem to think of GSP’s consistency as dull and dreary.
Much of this bored response to GSP has to do with his welterweight reign. Unlike the rest of the UFC’s divisions, which seem to be constantly changing rankings and building to new and dramatic title fights, welterweight seems to have a tried and true ranking that has rarely changed over GSP’s reign. GSP sits high atop the welterweight ladder with Jon Fitch sitting below, far below. Thiago Alves follows and then there is a huge gulf before we get to Carlos Condit, Martin Kampmann, Jake Sheids, Josh Koscheck and the rest of the welterweight class.
Most of the time, when there is a division which such a massive gulf between the top three and all the rest, the division is called weak or in its building stages. The interesting thing about Welterweight, however, is that Jon Fitch, Thiago Alves, Jake Shields, Josh Kosheck and all the rest are also great fighters. Welterweight is not a division full of gatekeepers. The reason there is such a gulf between GSP and the rest of the 170 pounders in the UFC (and elsewhere) has more to do with GSP’s talent than his lack of competition. He is just that good.
The problem, however, from the point of view of some fans, is that GSP’s domination of the welterweight division sucks all of the drama out of fights at 170. Every single one of GSP’s fights are followed by questions like "whose next?". Every impressive win from a 170 pounder is sucked of its appeal as soon as fans realize that his ceiling is being held down by GSP (Thiago Alves, for example, put on an excellent performance against John Howard at UFC 124 – but it does not have the same tinge of excitement because we all know that it can only build him towards another loss against a better fighter).
Unfortunately, the only welterweight fighters in the past year who have been able to stir drama and fan appeal in their fights against GSP, have done so more with their mouths then their muscles. Dan Hardy and Josh Koscheck stand out. Both used UFC television shows (UFC PrimeTime and The Ultimate Fighter) to earn the hatred of fans. But, when it came to fight time, most fans knew that, despite their talk, both Hardy and Kosheck were in for a beating at the hands of GSP.
Add in GSP’s reserved interview style and a recent lack of finishes and you get a welterweight division that many fans consider stale. I want to make it clear that I do not agree – But, I seem to be among the minority.
The result: An intense desire to see GSP move up to the middlewight class and fight against Middleweight champion and (former?) pound for pound king – Anderson ‘The Spider’ Silva. There are of course fans who want to see this fight for its spectacle alone – regardless about how they feel about GSP’s dominance at welterweight (whether they consider it stale or not). But let me put them in the background for now. I think the desire for GSP versus Andreson Silva is not only fueled by a desire to see the spectacle of the fight itself. Instead, many fans seem to want to see the fight because they believe that GSP has little left in the welterweight division.
Jake Shields is thought of as an overhyped ground fighter with a lack of stand up. Jon Fitch is understood as a fighter who has already had his chance and proven that he cannot stand up to GSP. Alves, similarly, has shown that he handle GSP’s wrestling and neither can Penn, Hughes, Serra and most of the other fighters who have already received their title shots.
I, myself, am split on the issue. While I can understand that a fight like GSP versus Fitch 2 or GSP versus Alves 2 probably not intrigue many fans and would probably not earn much PPV dollars, I do find the idea of a dominant champion who defeats any and all comers very sexy. Even if Jon Fitch and Jake Shields are not particularly interesting challengers on paper, "theres a reason that they fight em" and Matt Serra proved that. I don’t mean to imply that I would pick Shields or Fitch in a rematch against Georges St.Pierre. But, I do find the idea of GSP beating down worthy but overmatched challengers very exciting.
And so, I do not have the same craving for the Anderson Silva fight – at least not while Sheilds and Fitch, overmatched or not, sit in the background.
Speaking of Anderson Silva – he has his own challengers to worry about. I can remember many fans complaining about the dull middleweight division just two years ago in a similar way that many complain about the welterweight division now. Anderson had defeated Rich Franklin, Travis Lutter, Nate Marquardt, Dan Henderson and was now having to take on overmatched opponents like Patrick Cote and Thales Leites. While neither of those two fights garnered the same interest as Marquardt or Henderson – they helped Anderson Silva establish a dominant reign over middleweight and now, just two years later, Anderson has an entirely new list of challengers including Chael Sonnen, Vitor Belfort, and Yushin Okami.
I don’t need to see GSP take a year off to put on weight while fighters like Shields and Fitch sit in the background and I don’t need to see Anderson take some time off to fight a welterweight while intriguing fights against Okami and the rest sit in the background. Moreover, my example of Anderson Silva’s reign shows us that weightclasses have a way of replenishing themselves and turning out new and intriguing fights even if a champion has to fight the Cote’s and Leites of the world while he waits. I find this to be a small price to pay – in fact, I don’t find it to be taxing at all. I am not turned off by the idea of GSP knocking out Shields and Fitch while he waits for a new crop of contenders. Again, I find the idea of weight class dominance very sexy.
I also worry that GSP’s weight change might impact him in unforeseeable ways. I worry that a move to middleweight might interrupt the fighter in subtle ways and rob us of one of the best mixed martial artists of all time. On top of that, I do not want GSP to have to take a year off to put on weight while he is in his prime. Perhaps this is an unsubstantiated worry – the weight might not effect GSP at all. But as a fan of GSP, I cant help but feel these kinds of concerns.
On the other hand the idea of GSP/Silva is obviously very intriguing. The fight itself might be the biggest in UFC history. Two pound for pound kings who are able to reach the same weight class and fight. Something like that might not come again for decades.
And this leads to another major issue – Anderson Silva is getting older. If the UFC wants to pull the trigger on the fight and respond to the fans desire to see the fight and their boredom with 170 – they must do it soon. We all remember how much weaker Wanderlei Silva and Chuck Liddell were by the time they finally met.
There are clearly many factors involved in the making of Anderson Silva/GSP. And, I think I am among the minority in my desire to see GSP continue to dominant at 170. Most would much rather see his career continue middleweight and are fueled, at least in part, by a dissatisfaction with the 170 pound weightclass and its same old rankings.
I am not as bored by the Sheilds/GSP fight as many fans seem to be, but, at the same time, I am of course intruiged by Silva/GSP and if its going to happen – it needs to happen soon.
Anderson is 34 years old and the clock is ticking.
My point: When Snowden says “dont fix what isnt broken” ….most fans are responding: the Welterweight division IS BROKEN… its stale and predictable.
AKA: GSP is too good.
by Ajay Sandhu on Mar 10, 2011 1:03 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Haha
Hadn’t even noticed this post. That was an essay, I agree that it should just be put into a fanpost.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
your not supposed to start a sentence off with "And"
I try to be a role model for kids around the park. If some kid wants to grow dope, they can come talk to me, instead of growing dope 6 or 7 times through denial and error, they're going to get it right the first time and have some good dope. - Ricky
You can't tell me to not grow dope. It's like telling the NWA to stop being black.-Ricky
Since we're playing that game...
you’re*
None more gangster.
Tweeter!
by alicks on Mar 10, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
hahhaa
nice.
I try to be a role model for kids around the park. If some kid wants to grow dope, they can come talk to me, instead of growing dope 6 or 7 times through denial and error, they're going to get it right the first time and have some good dope. - Ricky
You can't tell me to not grow dope. It's like telling the NWA to stop being black.-Ricky
fixed
You’re not supposed to start a sentence off with “And”
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
Except...
…it’s perfectly acceptable to do so.
It offends those who wish to confine English usage in a logical straitjacket that writers often begin sentences with "and" or "but." True, one should be aware that many such sentences would be improved by becoming clauses in compound sentences; but there are many effective and traditional uses for beginning sentences thus. One example is the reply to a previous assertion in a dialogue: "But, my dear Watson, the criminal obviously wore expensive boots or he would not have taken such pains to scrape them clean." Make it a rule to consider whether your conjunction would repose more naturally within the previous sentence or would lose in useful emphasis by being demoted from its position at the head of a new sentence.
(source: http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/nonerrors.html)
See also:
The answer is yes. It is perfectly acceptable to start sentences with the conjunctions and and but. However, it is slightly informal. If formality is your goal, choose more formal language.
(source: http://www.businesswritingblog.com/business_writing/2005/11/but_its_okay_an.html)
None more gangster.
Tweeter!
cudn't agree with you more
which is why i was correcting the crtique, not the supposed aberration…
thanks anyway though
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
Damn.
My 8th grade English teacher straight beat using “and” to begin a sentence out of me. Wench.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com and Bloody Elbow Radio
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Mar 10, 2011 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
There are style preferences depending on what you’re writing, but most facets of professional writing have aspects that go directly against the lies that English teachers will tell you. Half the stuff that they “prepare” you for doesn’t exist.
Check out Chester, an Xbox game being developed by a friend.
SaberCats Examiner | SB Nation Bay Area | Niners Nation | Twitter
Internet law #1
If you’re going to critique someone’s grammar, make sure your critique is spotless.
your not supposed to start a sentence off with “And”
You gotta pay the troll toll, to get into this boy's soul.
twitter.com/JayAreW
I get it
I’m an asshole
I try to be a role model for kids around the park. If some kid wants to grow dope, they can come talk to me, instead of growing dope 6 or 7 times through denial and error, they're going to get it right the first time and have some good dope. - Ricky
You can't tell me to not grow dope. It's like telling the NWA to stop being black.-Ricky
no one
is saying that… come on now…
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
It would also help if he was right, as well.
Check out Chester, an Xbox game being developed by a friend.
SaberCats Examiner | SB Nation Bay Area | Niners Nation | Twitter
hah. I said “also” and “as well.”
FUCKIN ZINGER
Check out Chester, an Xbox game being developed by a friend.
SaberCats Examiner | SB Nation Bay Area | Niners Nation | Twitter
That's not true, and never has been. Elementary school lied to you.
Check out Chester, an Xbox game being developed by a friend.
SaberCats Examiner | SB Nation Bay Area | Niners Nation | Twitter
Also
Anderson turns 36 in April
I try to be a role model for kids around the park. If some kid wants to grow dope, they can come talk to me, instead of growing dope 6 or 7 times through denial and error, they're going to get it right the first time and have some good dope. - Ricky
You can't tell me to not grow dope. It's like telling the NWA to stop being black.-Ricky
Now that I have read it...
Lots of info to put in a comment, but i mostly agree with you. Adding on that it should be up to GSP if he wants to go up in weight. He is no more of a coward for not going up in weight then Anderson not going down in weight.
Would love to hear what you guys THINK about what im saying
and not just ur thoughts about my grammer
Okay!
And so, I do not have the same craving for the Anderson Silva fight – at least not while Sheilds and Fitch, overmatched or not, sit in the background.
But there is always going to be someone sitting in the background. Unless everyone in the entire world fighting at 170-lbs. drops dead, there will always be a number 2 guy in the division.
None more gangster.
Tweeter!
GREAT GOOGIDY MOOGIDY
They made a video game about Yakuzas. It’s called Yakuza. And it’s about Yakuza
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"Rather than love, than money, than faith, than fame, than fairness... give me truth."
Chris McCandless A.K.A. Alexander Supertramp
1968-1992
by T.C. Engel on Mar 10, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This is a remarkably poor article
Despite being a relatively short article, Snowden focused a fair bit of time criticising ancient greeks in an entirely unhelpful and unfunny manner.
The biggest problem is with how he portrays the fight—as a meaningless money grab. You can build a fair argument to criticise the fight, but this is not at all a fair reflection of the specific pros and cons. A fight that would crown the greatest mixed martial artist of all time is profoundly meaningful. An opportuntity like this (undisputedly the top two P4P in adjacent weight classes) comes about in the most rare of circumstances.
The second biggest problem is the portrayel of the size difference. If you had a picture of Kendal Grive beside most MWs, it would seem as it they are in the wrong division. Also stating a 30lb weeight difference between the two is absurd. Such a difference exists only when Anderson has significant excess weight in comparison to GSP who keeps a tight weight range. The remaining weight discerpancy would be made up by GSP moving up to 177, and Anderson cutting muscle to move down to it. Also, it should be noted that GSP has a wingspan that is of middleweight proportions. Would Anderson still have a slight weight/reach advantage? Sure, but GSP would have a significant age advantage. The fight would still largely come down to skill. Physicial attributes will always matter—even between two fighters competeing against each other at their ideal weight class.
In the end, a 177 lb catchweight would be an incredible test of skill for the most skilled martial artists we have ever seen. It will be a truly epic moment in the history of MMA, and obsession over weight and size should not squander this opportunity.
by TheRage on Mar 10, 2011 1:04 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
Why are they “biggest problem” and “second biggest problem”? Just wondering, are there really that many more of them to where you need to distinguish which are the biggest?
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Let’s see ’em, then. I think you just used the word “biggest” to create the illusion of there being a plethora of things wrong with the article to suit your stance.
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1)The introduction, in which instead of presenting the topic or the argument, he explains why he does the supposedly tough thing by going against the grain.
2)The picture, which does not explain the whole story (What weight is this fight going to be at? What are the reaches of the men? How does anderson/gsp look in a superficial sense compared to other fights?
3) Excessive focus on weight—there will always be a catchweight between the ideal weights of the competitors.
4) Criticising the Greeks for not having weight classes and a host of other unrelated nonsense.
5) Describing a 30 lb weight differential, which is completely misleading
6) Mentioning boxing without mentioning the plethora of cases where a fighter has cleaned out a division and then gone up in weight class (Pacquiao has done this how many times?). Anderson himself has fought at WW/MW/LHW—there is no need for a fighter to be fixed to one weight class.
7) Decribing the fight as anything less than sport—of course crowning the best athlete in a certain domain is sport. How else would you define sport?
8) Describing this as a money grab—this is hardly Ochocinco fighting Anderson. All fights are money grabs to an extent—this is a business. This money grab fulfills a certain sporting purprose—determining the best fighter in the world. That is what matters most. Everything else is irrelevant in comparison.
by TheRage on Mar 10, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
1. Granted.
2. That’s the picture being used right now. A picture doesn’t have to tell a story. It’s an article about GSP and Anderson, and it’s a picture of GSP and Anderson. I just posted an article about the San Jose SaberCats 24-man roster, and the picture is of their head coach and the caption talks about how his roster is set. Should my article be at fault because I don’t have 24 action shots of said players?
3. That’s like writing a post about touchdown to interception ratios and then having someone tell you that the article focuses too much on ratios and not about other things.
4. Not really a fault of the article at all, here. Now who’s focusing on weight too much?
5. See 3.
6. Granted.
7. Does the article say it’s not sport entirely? It says it’s more spectacle than sport, which could be perceived as true.
8. It is most certainly a money grab. I’m sorry, but this is a business, and the main reason that fight be made is for money.
My point about your initial reply stands – you were posturing.
Check out Chester, an Xbox game being developed by a friend.
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The reason why I phrased my comment they way I did was because I started with a criticism of the Greek comments but I wanted to make it clear what I felt was the biggest issue with Snowden’s piece (i.e. even without the Greek bit I would have been highly critical of this piece). I have no idea why you are so fixated with a stylistic point and so called “posturing.”
The picture itself isn’t the problem—the way he describes it in the piece is, as some sort of proof that Anderson is massive compared to GSP. We all know Anderson is six inches taller—weight and reach matter more than overall height, though, and that is downplayed by focusing on this picture (on fight night these fighters will weight more/less than in the pic, and reach isn’t clearly evident in the pic).
The article isn’t about weight—the article is about whether GSP-Silva makes sense. Other statistical measures beyond weight matter in that discussion.
You could say all combat sport is more spectacle than sport, if you define sport and spectacle in certain ways. All combat sports is a business. What differentiates this from other fighs? A fight to proclaim the greatest fighter of all time is as much (or more) an example of sport as any other fight out there.
I’ve stood with both men. Anderson Silva is much bigger than Georges. Period.
by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 10, 2011 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
By having two men fight outside their ideal circumstances? How does that prove anything?
by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 10, 2011 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
The beauty is
a catchweight really isn’t outside of ideal circumstances for them. Anderson could make the cut to 177.5, and Georges would be comfortable there as well.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
As long as you say they are great there………….
by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 10, 2011 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
That’s the problem with combat sports – you’ll never get a straight answer unless the two greatest fighters happen to be in the same org and the same weight division.
“If they had fought at 170, GSP woulda manhandled Silva!”
“If they’d fought at middleweight, Silva wouldn’t be so exhausted from the weight cut and he’d have knocked GSP the hell out!”
“If only they allowed elbows on the ground…”
“If only Wanderlei was still allowed soccer kicks…”
The list goes on. People will make excuses for their fighter of choice because that’s what they do.
None more gangster.
Tweeter!
Well,
considering that Anderson weighed in at 182 not long ago, and started his career at 170, the cut wouldn’t be impossible for him.
GSP purportedly weighs 185ish in the cage, meaning that he would only have to cut 8 lbs to make weight. Or, if he felt it necessary, he could pack on some muscle.
At any rate, it’s too good a fight to pass up. Both guys have said they want it, the UFC wants it, the fans want it. How it’s “bad for the sport” is beyond me. If anything, this fight happening is only good for MMA. While boxing flounders, and struggles to put together meaningful fights, MMA will have put together a very intriguing stylistic fight between the 2 best fighters of our time.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
So GSP and Silva magically lose their skills at 177? Get out of here.
by TheRage on Mar 10, 2011 3:27 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Seriously.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
Because catchweight would balance the weight difference between the two fighters allowing skill to be more of a determining factor. You act as if size discrepancies within a given weight class don’t matter, or that the current weight classes aren’t aribitrary. Maybe 175 is GSP’s best weight class? Does that mean it sucks that he fights at 170? Maybe 190 is Anderson’s best weight class. Maybe we should make sure that fighters of only the exact same frame (reach/height/weight/muscle mass) should fight against each other.
Exactly.
The existing weight classes are not the be all- end all. Sometimes, for a good matchup to happen, you have to do things a little outside of the box. I don’t see why people get so riled up over that.
Size isn’t such a huge issue that a 10 lb. difference makes a fight meaningless.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
Ideal circumstances!?! How about the biggest payday of their lives, huge ratings and increased interest in the sport. ESPN would be all over a GSP vs Silva match-up, the UFC making their Pacquiao-Mayweather happen. This focus on size difference between two fighters in adjacent weight classes seems to be just for argument’s sake. Catchweight fights happen all the time in MMA. Why would it be such a stretch if it produced the biggest fight in the history of the sport?
Reporting from inside a padded cage at MMAmadman.com.
Much taller,
probably 15 lbs. heavier in the cage. At a catchweight, I don’t suspect he’d be more than 10-12 lbs. bigger.
Cain Velasquez whooped Brock Lesnar, who had 40 lbs on him.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
Brock was only 20ish pounds heavier…pre-surgery Brock cut to 265 from 285ish though.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
by The American Ronin on Mar 10, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
Really?
Here I was, under the impression that a 20% bodyweight difference was significant, regardless of weight class.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
It is significant, but
…let’s not pretend Brock is anywhere near the fighter Silva is. I do want this fight, but I’m not going to call GSP a pussy for not fighting a bigger, taller and arguably better fighter than himself without the proper prep time. Has he ever said he’s completely against the fight? Sounds like he’s just weighing is options to me.
by black dragon on Mar 12, 2011 5:39 AM EST up reply actions
I can't completely agree with your number 6
Other than flyweight and maybe the weight class after that, Pac Man, or really any big name boxer rarely completely cleans out their division. If anything, and I say this as a fan of watching Pac dismantle guys, he didn’t move up for the challenge, but for the money. Like Silva/Griffin, most of the guys after Pac Man’s first two or three weight classes were they sort of brawlers/boxers that resort to brawling that had no chance of matching Pac Man’s speed. Speed kills in striking. It’s like how heavyweights have soul stopping one punch power if they connect, but a smaller, faster, more accurate guy can knock out just as many guys because of the volume they can land.
by black dragon on Mar 12, 2011 5:36 AM EST up reply actions
Ya know, it's ok sometimes
to stop worrying about what’s good/bad for the sport. This fight would be the biggest fight in UFC history, make it happen.
You gotta pay the troll toll, to get into this boy's soul.
twitter.com/JayAreW
by J_R_W on Mar 10, 2011 1:08 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Again, we don’t know how GSP will react to the addition weight and this article is based on purely hypothetical scenario. Maybe GSP will be the new “Overeem” and this would be the most genius decision he has ever made. Maybe… We don’t know and I don’t see a reason to proclaim that GSP will be undersized.
Bad for the Sport? Yes, you can make the case that it is bad for the sport. But for the business it might be the ingredient that will take the UFC and the sport of MMA to the next level. And these two things are in correlation. The more exposure UFC gets, the better of are fighters and the more incentive they have to persuade such a career path.
You can say it will be bad for GSP, but in no way shape or form it is bad for the sport.
Again, we don’t know how GSP will react to the addition weight and this article is based on purely hypothetical scenario.
right, it is hypothetical and that is why we want to see it. Every fight is hypothetical. Why does that matter?
I think lots of fighters look faster at uncut weight classes. BJ and Randy for sure do.
I think you're wrong on every single point.
You are a contrarian.
“To bask in the adulation I can only assume comes to those with safe, conventional, and dull opinions.”
You admit that you are the opposite of this: unconventional, troublesome and inflammatory.
" It’s a ludicrous money grab that has nothing to do with sport, an affront to a great fighter’s potential legacy."
it is only a money grab because people will pay for it. People will pay for it because it is awesome and a much better fight. It is also a challenge for st. Pierre who has the skillset to beat people with other advantages.
“They invented weight classes for a reason.”
Do you really think our weight class system eliminates size advantages for fighters? Come on. Gleison Tibau at LW? Thiago Alves at WW? How many LHW fighters weigh more offseason than Randy, Cheick, Cain, Fedor, etc?
Does Anderson look competitive at LHW? hell yes. Would he be competitive at HW? maybe. and definitely against some guys. Could GSP tool up some monster middleweights? Definitely. But the big kicker is that they are both fighters who don’t necessarily need the weight class structure because they are superfreaks.
“St. Pierre is the best fighter in the world at 170 pounds. Why can’t we enjoy him for that? Isn’t that enough?”
Nope, not enough. I wouldn’t want to watch GSP fight underqualified guys indefinitely. Serra got lucky. Someone might eventually too. But, how much cooler would it be to have him take on the challenge of moving up?
Here is the kicker. What if he won? He has to be as good of a wrestler as Chael Sonnen. Styles make matchups, right? How much more of a legend would he be if GSP slayed the dark enigmatic guy who fans aren’t nearly as passionate about.
by dr cagelove on Mar 10, 2011 1:23 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
So GSP shouldn't fight Anderson because he's smaller??
and it may tarnish his legacy? This is a ridiculous article. Great fighters fight up or down throughout their career. BJ Penn, Royce Gracie, Nick Diaz, Dan Henderson, Rich Franklin, this list goes on. GSP has done enough at Welterweight (after Shields) and unless they bring someone new and interesting into the UFC at 170 he has nothing left to prove at that weight.
Furthermore
GSP is not a small WW and Anderson is a natural MW. If they decide a catch weight or to fight at 185 it shouldn’t matter. Anderson has gone up to fight at 205 twice and has gone back down to 185 each time. So you’re saying GSP should be scared of the big bad man that’s a little bigger than him? He’s a fighter. He doesn’t run away because someone’s got a few inches and lbs on him. This article promote cowardice.
by kick_puncher on Mar 10, 2011 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
Also
Anderson almost 30 lbs over GSP is laughable. He’s no more than 15 on a good day. GSP has said he’s around 192ish on fight day and I’m guessing Anderson doesn’t balloon up to 222! GSP has everything to gain from this fight and nothing to lose. Besides size, GSP has the advantage in this fight. Great wrestling, solid game plans, and to be the official p4p greatest in this sport.
by kick_puncher on Mar 10, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
Dam you Kick_Puncher
You have revealed Georges secret plot. If Dana reads this Georges will not be able to hold out for as much money!
"Boxing writers are the only people out there who have less constructive jobs than what I do. I don't do nothing but hit people, and those mothers don't do nothing but write about what I do!" "Randal Tex Cobb"
by Craven Moorehead on Mar 10, 2011 11:47 PM EST up reply actions
If you look at the success of those fighters at higher weight classes, it's not that great.
BJ Penn – He’s 5-5 in fights above LW.
Royce Gracie – His career is all over the map. In the early Pre Zuffa years, he had lots of success since his style was really well suited to those types of fights against men who, quite frankly, weren’t as good as him, or even as good in their own disciplines as he was in his. After the Zuffa years, his career is full of mixed results, not to mention steroids and changing rules to suit his needs.
Nick Diaz – Apparently he fights above his weight class only when it suits his desires.
Dan Henderson – Prefers to fight at LHW. He’s said many times he doesn’t like to fight at MW.
Rich Franklin – He’s 3-3 since moving out of the MW division, a division in which he was basically kicked out of by Anderson Silva.
None of these guys will be champs in the higher weight divisions in the UFC. The only one that has had any success at the higher weight classes was BJ Penn, and even then it is mixed. He can beat Hughes, but apparently has trouble with everyone else. Dan Henderson still seems to be going strong, and does well at LHW, but like I said, he prefers that weight, and he failed in his bid to be UFC champ.
As a counter — what about Jake Shields who moved up and took out the consensus #2 MW prior to his leaving the UFC and has beaten its current #1 contender (Okami)?
MW is a turd of a division in the UFC and Silva is a dream stylistic match up for GSP. I’m taking GSP even if they forced him to weigh in at 170 and allowed Silva to come in at 185 lb. They’d probably the same size in that case come fight time.
"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.
by The Darkness on Mar 10, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
There are exceptions to the rule. But the point is, going up and having success is a mixed bag. When you have a guy like GSP who assess risk in everything he does, and who also has so much to lose, he can be forgiven for thinking MW isn’t his thing. Personally, I think people are writing off GSP in thinking he can’t beat Silva. On the contrary, I think GSP would give Silva a run for his money.
fast comin up on 500 comments!
say what you like bout snowden, but does anyone else put the BE community on the fast lane to yack blah jabber quite like him?
Anyone know the comments record? (pointless, inane, quantative question that that might be).
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
by rohedron on Mar 10, 2011 1:31 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
when it's genuine, I enjoy it...
sometimes (like this article), it’s just manipulative.
by John Danaher's Hair on Mar 10, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah.
I think this was just a glorified troll job.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
I guess poster after poster agreeing are just trolling you too? Why is there never anyone who agrees with something calling it a “trolljob?” That just means “I disagree” huh?
by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 10, 2011 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
Trolling-
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community
Saying that the only true superfight currently available in MMA is “bad for the sport”, when so many people are excited about it… yes, I would consider that inflammatory.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
I can tell you’re smart enough not to believe what you wrote here. I agree with EM — this was meant to stir the pot, and given that goal, it was a clear success.
"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.
by The Darkness on Mar 10, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
what
an insult to all of those people who have patiently and thoughtfully engaged with this topic and arrived at conclusions that resonate to some degree with content in JS’s piece (I’m sure we can all agree the title is tacky).
Rather I can tell you are not smart enough to see that contrary positions to your own can have as much valifity if not more…
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
not sure
so many agreements (incl my own) qualified or full, that its hard to think of it as manipulative more than say… divisive
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
it's a valid spproach....
he’s in the business of generating traffic for his website- I understand that, I just don’t dig it. Especially when I’ve read and enjoyed enough of his work to know that he doesn’t need to do this and that he also knows better. But when you shout in the headline that what’s widely viewed as the biggest fight in the sport’s history would actually be BAD for the sport (and offer no evidence supporting that claim), and you use terms like “money grab” and “spectacle”, that language is used for one thing: more traffic.
Also, you want to see “Bad for the sport”? Have the same difficulty in making the sports biggest fight just as boxing did, and watch the effect on the sport.
by John Danaher's Hair on Mar 10, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
it seems
to go without saying that all of the writer’s on BE would use language with a view to generating traffic, but if i understand you correctly, the question is whether JS is coldly manipulating this topic to create traffic without meaning what he writes.
I can only conclude from my own response and those of quite a few others, that regardless or not if that is the case, he has struck a chord – from this perspective therefore, the concern is about whether or not the language goes too far into hyperbole (a genuine but different problem I think than how I understand your concern), rather than being manipulative per se… does that make sense?
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
Jonathan Snowden: The Thesselonian Brazilian you’re fighting… he’s the biggest man I’ve ever seen. I wouldn’t want to fight him.
Achilles GSP: Thats why no-one will remember your name.
by John Danaher's Hair on Mar 10, 2011 1:31 PM EST reply actions
or to quote another Wolfgang Petersen film
’that’s a really big wave isn’t it?’
‘Yeh, don’t worry about it though… it’ll be fine…’
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
Lotta rec's...not enough green....
They made a video game about Yakuzas. It’s called Yakuza. And it’s about Yakuza
gocyborg.wordpress.com
by Krimson on Mar 10, 2011 1:32 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
If this fight is bad then why has it generated more interest then the fights that are actually happening next weekend
the Toney-Couture
fight generated mass interest also (incl my own) I would not argue that that fight was good for MMA… not at all
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
I thought people would’ve noticed some trends lately in MMA: Being the bigger guy isn’t always the defining factor. Wrestling often is. We see this with Edgar and Velasquez both becoming champions by beating larger foes. You don’t need to be big, you need to be good.
"Rather than love, than money, than faith, than fame, than fairness... give me truth."
Chris McCandless A.K.A. Alexander Supertramp
1968-1992
I wouldn't be surprised if this post broke 1000 comments
You sure know how to get people riled up Snowden!
This about sums him up...
“To bask in the adulation I can only assume comes to those with safe, conventional, and dull opinions.”
Very good writer, plenty of historical knowledge about the sport… yet, the majority of the time, I have been dissapointed in the conclusions and statements made by this writer who had all the necessary qualifications to be so much better…
It is all sooo much clearer now, thanks.
100% agree.
As much as I love spectacles now and then, and I admit, I am curious to see the fight, Fans are being greedy and ridiculous here. GSP has everything to lose – prestige, sponsorship, fame, etc. While us fans? We can move on if he loses. GSP can’t go back down and be the same fighter he was if he loses to Silva at MW. He is the best WW out there. That’s good enough for me. There’s no point in becoming a mediocre MW should he lose to Silva. And even if he beat Silva, he may not keep the belt for long. Whereas at WW? He is the best, and may end up being the best ever at that weight.
by pud333 on Mar 10, 2011 1:49 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Alas, that’s not my lot in life. My mind spins too fast for that.
As much as I tend to agree with your stance on the fight, this statament smacks of hubris. Come on, you’re not bloody Nietzche or anything.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
www.badlefthook.com
My guess woulda been this guy
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Mar 10, 2011 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I haven’t enjoyed any of his albums. Why is he so lauded?
@scb0212
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 11, 2011 8:55 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Snowden, you're building your premise on faulty/misleading assumptions
Silva might outweigh GSP by 35 pounds walking around, but it’s how much he weighs in the cage that matters. Soares and Silva have both said that Silva weighs around 192-194 a month out from a fight. GSP has been quoted that he walks around at about that weight. Accordingly, in a hypothetical match up at MW, GSP and Silva would weigh close to the same, assuming they held to past practices.
Of course, if either decided to deviate from past practice, Anderson has a lot more flexibility and could come in significantly heavier than GSP if he wanted to. But again, he would be limited by water weight, so assuming GSP came in at 192 (only cut 7 pounds of water) and Silva came in at 210 (cut 25 pounds of water), there’s still only a difference of 18 pounds. Significant, but not the whopping 35 pounds cited.
Further, you can debate about legacies all you want. GSP can be the best WW that we’ve seen if he just stays where he is. That won’t change if SIlva beats him at MW. But if he beats Silva at MW, he could be the best FIGHTER that we’ve seen.
Apparently,
Snowden only approves of matchmaking based on specious criteria so long as it results in an intriguing fight when Strikeforce is doing it. I know his mind spins so fast that he might have missed that, so alas, that’s not his lot in this article.
by John Danaher's Hair on Mar 10, 2011 2:11 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Dude-
You just wrote an article comparing Strikeforce’s acquisition of Hendo to the UFC’s acquisition of Shields wihtout taking into account the underlying differences which may make the comparison patently invalid!
“Hey pot- you’re black!”
by John Danaher's Hair on Mar 10, 2011 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
Snowden,
what’s you sbnation or BE email?
by John Danaher's Hair on Mar 10, 2011 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
This is all about $$$
I can’t believe you guys don’t see it, when GSP hems and haws about the fight it’s just because whatever the UFC is offering for it isn’t enough. He needs to get paid enough to make it worthwhile to take 1 fight off to add the weight, and he probably feels the fight is big enough to justify a huge pay increase.
ood point.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
that
could either be ‘good’ point or ‘odd’ point
I prefer ‘odd’ (but agree that its a good point)
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
Yeah,
I meant good point. haha
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
I think you've hit the nail here
Anything GSP (or Anderson for that matter) says about this fight at this point is probably best regarded as a part of the negotiations.
"With gold thou boughtest Gýmir's daughter,
and so gavest away thy sword:
but when Muspell's sons through the dark forest ride,
thou, unhappy, wilt not have wherewith to fight."
~ Lokasenna
where's Luke when you need him?
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
At SBNation MMA
Also you know Luke isn’t here when the ad on the site is for THE TRUE STORY OF WRESTLEMANIA. LOL
Someone was going to town.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
GSP should go down weight
Not only is the Anderson Silva superfight not going to settle anything, but it’s the only really interesting fight for GSP at that weight (tho’ he might also suck at that weight, meaning he loses a bit more . . . I doubt he’d lose a LOT because he is so good, but there is a very real chance he would lose some of his skill).
But imagine, instead, GSP cutting fifteen pounds and fighting at lightweight. And how many just amazing fights would be there for him. I understand why he should move from welterweight, the well there is almost dry for him, but I think he should go DOWN weight if we want to see a ton of great fights. And him losing weight wouldn’t put him at a size disadvantage, either.
by Christopher Bradley on Mar 10, 2011 3:20 PM EST reply actions
There is not a single lightweight fight that would interest me for GSP, and he is just too filled into his frame for that.
Check out Chester, an Xbox game being developed by a friend.
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Should've used the sarcasm font bro.
I see what you’re doing there, and it doesn’t hold for Anderson- a guy who started his career at 170, and isn’t by any stretch of the imagination a huge middleweight.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
This article is less than interesting.
Couldn’t you even elaborate a little bit on the possible consequences and fallout after a fight like this?
At minimum don’t make a physical comparison based upon a doctored photograph.
I'd change my name to Mr. Carrano.
less than interesting articles don't inspire comments like these
Check out Chester, an Xbox game being developed by a friend.
SaberCats Examiner | SB Nation Bay Area | Niners Nation | Twitter
I had to do some soul searching for this one, but I’ve come to the conclusion that this is the worst article snowden has written. Complete with a crappy, poorly thought out opinion, self righteousness, and smugness. Kudos, sir. And for old times sake…. Snowden
"That's racism man, I love to racism bro!"
by Hendo_One-Shot on Mar 10, 2011 3:27 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
As opposed to the self righteous sugness of this comment?
Check out Chester, an Xbox game being developed by a friend.
SaberCats Examiner | SB Nation Bay Area | Niners Nation | Twitter
sugness. hah.
Check out Chester, an Xbox game being developed by a friend.
SaberCats Examiner | SB Nation Bay Area | Niners Nation | Twitter
Nothing self righteous about the post. What the hell are you talking about.
"That's racism man, I love to racism bro!"
by Hendo_One-Shot on Mar 10, 2011 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
And defensive, too! At least admit your flaws. I was being self righteous earlier. I’m pretty fucking smug too.
Check out Chester, an Xbox game being developed by a friend.
SaberCats Examiner | SB Nation Bay Area | Niners Nation | Twitter
uhhh…?
"That's racism man, I love to racism bro!"
by Hendo_One-Shot on Mar 10, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
The weirdest thing about these threads of late
is how little chance people are giving GSP to win against Silva. GSP is better than Chael Sonnen at everything, and could get himself pretty close to his Chael’s with strength and conditioning. I think he’d be a nightmare for Silva at MW.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
+1
GSP has all the tools to shut Ando down. And we all know that Ando can end a fight on the drop of a hat.
The reason this fight is so compelling to me is that Anderson will make Georges fight. He’s had no urgency to finish lately, because his opponents haven’t offered him anything. Silva’s so dangerous, GSP would really try to put him away emphatically. Against opponents GSP respects, and has fought before, he fights urgently; BJ gave him a tough fight and he murked him, Serra knocked him silly and Georges dominated him, Hughes caught him with a sub and GSP annihilated him.
Alves, Hardy, & Koscheck offered him nothing, and so he cruised to victory. I’m betting he would really work his ass off against Anderson.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This is spot on. I loved GSP when he was a fighter that looked to finish. I still enjoy watching him fight and I know that I am going to get 5 rounds of exciting technique but I don’t expect GSP to finish anymore. I would be shocked if he finishes Shields. Against Anderson he won’t be able to depend on riding out a 5 round victory. Anderson can finish him too many ways.
And yes, GSP is better than Chael and what he does except taking PED’s and fighting Anderson with broken ribs.
catchweight
I agree 100% if they fight at 185lbs…
but make it a 175lbs or even 177lbs catchweight, and I think it becomes way more competitive.
177.5
Right down the middle. I know it’s a tad anal, but it’s the fair way to do things.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Mar 10, 2011 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
I love this comment section so much.
It’s not Kid Nate Hate Thread calibur, but this is exactly why I come to BE.
With all this talk of Snowden fellating himself, I think we all need to take a moment and appreciate the marketplace of ideas you can find here . . . and then we should all fellate ourselves.
A discussion like this on the UG or Sherdog would have degenerated to name calling and fighter bashing in a matter of minutes.
Ranked #2 P4P Best BloodyElbow User Name
by Medium Nog on Mar 10, 2011 4:31 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Has there ever been a 1000+ comment thread that wasn’t for a specific event?
by I Can't Feel My Face on Mar 10, 2011 4:32 PM EST reply actions
that was a zoo.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
by RolloTomasi on Mar 11, 2011 12:39 AM EST up reply actions
Yay!
I’ve been against this fight since day one. It’s good to see someone with the same thoughts.
This is just like BJ Penn/GSP. Everyone cried that it was so major, so amazing, it had to happen, everyone wants to see it until it finally did happen. The end result was the bigger man dismantling the smaller man and the buyrate despite months of hype & and a brand new TV special was a disappointment. There is no evidence whatsoever that major cross-division fights draw more in comparison to equivalent weight class fights.
And that’s the name of the game. You can cry about “the sport” and “honor”, but it comes down to money. What will make UFC and the two fighters more? For UFC, they have a belief this will do one of the biggest buy rates in history. I don’t think it will. It will do no better then any of GSP’s current fights. For GSP, there’s no incentive to take this fight beyond pride, and pride won’t pay your bills or restore your brain after you take a shellacking. All it sometimes takes is one KO from a bigger man to permanently crack your chin for the rest of your career. Is pride worth that to GSP when he has a legacy?
The fight makes sense for Anderson, but realistically he’s the only one out of the three stakeholders. And aside from the ultra hard core fanbase, no one cares about Anderson. He’s never going to be the type of draw he should be. If it was going to happen it would have happened by now. Sacrificing GSP to Anderson just diminishes GSP’s power and adds nothing to Anderson.
You would be correct, if it wasn’t for the fact that BJ/GSP did one of the biggest buyrates in history up to that point and both men then went on to be even more successful draws than they were before.
Bj vs. huges 1
What about when Bj went up the first time and RNC the “bigger better unbeatable” welter weight belt holder Matt huges?
"Rip Rules And All Others Rest In Peace"- Greg "Ranger" Stott moments before getting smashed by "The Smashing Machine."
by lawdawgfightcrew on Mar 10, 2011 8:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I Agree With Snowden and GSP
I do think its bad for the sport. All the fight does is tarnish a fighters hard fought legacy while barely solidifying the other’s. And that before considering the clear size advantage Silva has. The only way this is a good move is if GSP wins and Silva goes to LHW. And I agree with GSP in saying Yushin Okami deserves a title shot. As much as i hate watching Okami fight, He does deserve his shot.
By the way Mr. Snowden. This was fantastic. I have gone back and forth on my opinion through out the day, but the most important thing is the amount of time I wasted! It rained all day in Richmond, and you kept me occupied. Thanks buddy.
You’re welcome. It’s a tough debate isn’t it? Maybe by tomorrow I will be for the fight? It would be awesome, even if it sends the wrong message.
by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 10, 2011 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
GSP MUST FIGHT SILVA!
THIS IS SO FREAKING LAME! BJ DID IT, SILVA DID IT, RANDY DID IT! WHY CAN’T GSP GO UP? IT MAKES NO SENSE. Who ever wrote this article is wack both these guys have cleaned out their divisions its time.
"Rip Rules And All Others Rest In Peace"- Greg "Ranger" Stott moments before getting smashed by "The Smashing Machine."
by lawdawgfightcrew on Mar 10, 2011 6:01 PM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
I'm keeping my mouth shut on this one cuz
last night I got my ass handed to me on a silver-platter. :)
Just Breed!
OK- I couldn't resist.
And forget what you think Royce Gracie taught us back at UFC 1 – size most definitely matters.
The first thing that came to mind when I read this was Lesnar cutting weight to 264lbs and Cain weighing in at 244 lbs for their fight.
Demanding two men of disparate size square off isn’t sport – it’s spectacle.
And the Lesnar/Cain fight came to mind again when I read this. It was a spectacle.
Just Breed!
by ScoreCardOTN on Mar 10, 2011 6:42 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
contrarian isn't synonymous with wrong.
this perception that fighters who are really good deserve to be undefeated or that their legacy is somehow tainted if they lose needs to go. This is a great fight and it will do nothing but great things for the sport. The fighters are probably about as far apart as their weight classes on fight night, and with some extra time GSP could make up a lot of that difference.
IMHO the very best reason to have this fight is because there’s nothing left for them in their respective divisions (except maybe Okami but that fight will be there after this fight is done). Their is more tarnish added to their legacy by never getting into a close, exciting fight again than there is if one of them loses. Think about how big GSP-Penn was and how big both fighters became afterward. Remember, despite losing to GSP twice, Penn wasn’t considered tarnished until he lost his LW title to Edgar.
Congrats, Snowden, on another successful troll thread. You even managed to get some fools to agree with you.
Ego and Ads
1. This is why Snowden is the worst writer in MMA: Ego. Ego bigger than Dana White.
“I’ve often been accused of being a contrarian. Someone who writes things just to stir the pot, who looks for the consensus and goes the opposite way. Nothing could be further from the truth. I would love, for once, to be on the popular side of the issue of the day. To bask in the adulation I can only assume comes to those with safe, conventional, and dull opinions.
Alas, that’s not my lot in life. My mind spins too fast for that."
Wow dude. Your ego is off the charts big. Your mind is too fast to agree with people? You think you are a risk taker, unconventional, and exciting because you take whatever people think and write the opposite? Nay (huge ego word), that just makes you as scripted as the WWE. Then you write something about how the Greeks fought without weight classes. WOW! You graced us all with your infinitely deep knowledge of the history of fighting. It was really helpful information.
People want to see the greatest athletes in any sport go against each other. It’s that simple. Just as we want to see Silva leave his post and demolish another weight class, so too should GSP. He can gain the weight, he can fight at 185 and have a fair fight. We have seen a ton of small wrestlers manhandle bigger guys through superior strength. The fact that Silva will have a large reach advantage is the same as the other “spider,” Kendall Grove, fighting other smaller, shorter guys with BJJ / wrestling backgrounds (Losses to Cote, Munoz, Almeida 170lb fighter, Maia, Rivera). All 6’1’’ or shorter and half could fight at 170. GSP could easily win this fight and establish that which he has professed for so long, that his goal now is to “Establish my legacy as the greatest fighter of all time.”
I shall retreat to my trailer, since I am just a lemming following my herd to the cliff of entertainment. Please stop writing about MMA. Go to boxing where no one will read your “troll (thanks for the word Confucius)” writing.
by b_radical on Mar 10, 2011 9:30 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Ads
Oh yeah, I forgot to write about the ads. Hey Bloody Elbow guys, I am an online ad expert and you guys are running admeld which is running 100’s of ad networks through their chain. This is causing horrible latency on the site. Every time a user flips a page your ad networks are making 100’s of ad calls slowing down the site. Lame dash O.
My take:
The UFC is healthier when each division has a monster champ.
BJ Penn as champ > Frankie Edgar as champ. But when he went up to tackle GSP, what happened? The weight diff killed him, and he hasn’t been right since.
GSP owning welterweights > GSP going up to middle and getting curbstomped. Or not getting curbstomped, but having Anderson Silva’s god-aura removed.
One day, yes, they should settle the question as to who is better. But that day is not now. The UFC needs its champions. It doesn’t need to grind one out.
Koscheck has frosted tips.
Good point
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
www.badlefthook.com
by Drunken cutman on Mar 11, 2011 6:19 AM EST up reply actions
The UFC needs its champions. It doesn’t need to grind one out.
That’s just silly.
A loss doesn’t destroy a champ.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
Thankfully
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
www.badlefthook.com
by Drunken cutman on Mar 11, 2011 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
depends on the loss
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
When they're finished with the business of cleaning out their divs..
..and they both need one last payday before they hang ’em up.
Koscheck has frosted tips.
Jonothan Snowden has tiger blood man
You can’t process him. Your brain would melt.
But in this case he makes a point that people want to ignore cause they want to see the fight so badly.
Not wanting to see this fight....
is like turning down a no strings-attached blowjob. Something is wrong with you, Snowden. Something twisted and malformed and ugly deep in the recesses of your soul.
by Lodz on Mar 10, 2011 10:37 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
that's exactly the perfect point to make in this instance
especially when you wake up the next morning with an STD… yeh… deep resonance
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
Yeah he should have added
From a chick with no STD’s.
The way he said it, it could be a dude with herpes and AIDS offering you a BJ.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
Jeez.
"Every time I talk on the phone with someone who doesn’t know me, they call me "ma’am"." - Scott C. Broussard
by Earl Montclair on Mar 10, 2011 11:42 PM EST reply actions
If this article is trolling then give me more.
Is this a fight that needs to happen for either fighters legacy?……..no.
Is this fight good for the sport?………perhaps not.
Is this a fight I would love to see……damn right!
And just a gut feeling but I think Georges truly believes he can beat Silva.
And thank you Mr. Snowden for having the guts to risk controversy.
"Boxing writers are the only people out there who have less constructive jobs than what I do. I don't do nothing but hit people, and those mothers don't do nothing but write about what I do!" "Randal Tex Cobb"
by Craven Moorehead on Mar 11, 2011 12:25 AM EST reply actions
The real question isn’t what is right or wrong, but what the two parties want. If GSP wants to become truly transcendent then he needs to rise to every single challenge that arises. It’s the difference between being Wayne Gretzky and Mark Messier. One is a legend whose name will always be remembered singularly for changing the sport, the other was a decent leader. He’ll be forgotten mostly. Both paths are noble and right, which path is GSP and Anderson gunning for? I think we know what GSP ultimately wants.
What is truly insanely mind-bogglingly idiotic here is the claim that it’s somehow bad for the sport. Define ‘bad’ for one. I mean, you need to be on some pretty serious hallucinogenics to believe those words. But John likes lots of posts and lots of attention even though he’s talented enough as a writer to get plenty of eyes through writing valid quality pieces not desperate for controversy for it’s own sake.
my band
http://www.groggybikini.com
Hmm
People will go a long way to try to protect the idea that GSP is the best fighter in the world.
This hurts my eyes.
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