The Mystery Behind the UFC's Goals in Japan
On Sunday morning, MMAFighting.com's Dan Herbertson broke news that former PRIDE FC President Nobuyuki Sakakibara, a man tainted by yakuza mafia ties that eventually sunk PRIDE, was planning on stepping back into the sport of mixed martial arts to promote a small event in the spring with DREAM head Hiroyuki Kato and J-Rock boss Takahiro Kokuho. For most fans, a shrug of the shoulders demonstrated their waning interest in the happenings on the tiny archipelago nation across the Pacific. Why should we care if some tainted yakuza-connected figurehead plans to try to save the sport in Japan?
As Mike Fagan pointed out in a piece that ran on Sunday night, desperation often precedes the final collapse, and this may be Japan's final attempt to inject interest in a sport that is on its final legs. While Sakakibara's name bears a stench that will likely never be cleansed, he has a number of advantages over the incoming foreign competition. Zach Arnold has taken the stance that while Sakakibara's name is tarnished, stranger things have happened. He talks in great detail about the fight scene and the impact of this news over at FightOpinion.com, going so far as to theorize that Sakakibara could have an impact despite his history.
The UFC's entry into the Japanese market is rumored for late this year, possibly December. As Arnold points out, Sakakibara could prove to be a "more impactful player" in Japan than the UFC, even with the lingering baggage he carries around as the man responsible for PRIDE's demise. The greater question is how can Sakakibara be more relevant that the world's premier mixed martial arts' promotion. Because the UFC will be entering a culture that has historically crushed American competition on their home turf:
I've written this before and I'll write it here again for reference. There are major strikes against UFC doing long-term consistent business in Japan that the promotion will unlikely be able to overcome.
They are not a Japanese company. I don't care how big UFC is worldwide, they are not nor will they ever be viewed as a Japanese company. This is a huge hurdle. Even if Zuffa was able to get a Japanese front man, it would be a challenge. Their front man happens to be a white guy. That's a strike against the organization. I'm not racist, but I am telling you how things operate in the country. It's very difficult for Zuffa to get a network TV deal on a big-money scale because they are not Japanese.
They are not viewed as a Japanese product. By that I mean the following - they do not use a pro-wrestling ring. They do not use a PRIDE-style production set-up. The visuals are a legitimate strike against the company. Jordan Breen mocks online fans who say that MMA just ‘isn't the same any more' without PRIDE around and I think he misses the boat when he does so. I completely understand that fan mentality and it exists in Japan.
UFC needs a major Japanese MMA promotion to produce stars. This sounds like a very obtuse idea, but I'll point out what I've learned over many, many years with the fight scene in Japan. There's two ways to cash in big in Japan with native athletes. The first method is that a Japanese promotion has to produce the anointed crop of uber-rookies and then those rookies are 'sent overseas' to conquer the foreigners so they can come back home to fight... for their home Japanese promotion. The second method is that the major Japanese promotion brings over foreigners and pays them a lot and hopes that they lose to the natives. This plays off of the fans' psyche that Japan is the world stage and therefore if you want to be legitimate, you have to come to Japan. If you're noticing already, both methods of producing Japanese stars are almost impossible for UFC to pull off. This is why WWE has not been able to make it in Japan despite making it everywhere else in the world, including vanquishing some popularity of Lucha Libre in vaunted Mexico.
I'm not an expert in Japanese culture by any stretch of the imagination. My understanding of the business practices in the region stems from four international business classes and a class on marketing in Asia. While I learned the basic lessons of knowing your audience, product placement, etc., there isn't anything that can prepare a company for entry into Japan.
I have two acquaintances that work in very different industries in Japan, one who teaches Japanese children English and another who programs video games in a typical Japanese corporate environment. My programmer friend isn't a savvy observer of Japanese business, but from all the historical accounts of past failures of American businesses and the first-hand accounts of my friend's discussions with actual MMA fans at his workplace -- Zach Arnold's assessment is spot on.
One of the overall themes from the three points listed above is that the Japanese are very proud of their country. If it isn't manned by Japanese workers and produced in Japan, the likeliness of success is very low. Large companies like Vodafone, Burger King, Wendy's, Nokia, and Motorola all failed in Japan, and even enormous dot com companies like eBay fell to known Japanese alternatives. Google can't even break into the region, and everyone loves Google, right?
Wrong. Those mishaps all followed a similar path to failure. Vodafone didn't research their market. Google can't catch fire because Yahoo! Japan has a history and local background in the country. eBay had a myriad of problems from a horrible, unchanged American pricing structure to never localizing the product before they made announcements of its launch. In American, we are used to seeing huge billboards and commercials that say "COMING SOON!" and high-res photos of the product. That doesn't seem to work in Japan, or at least not for eBay.
This leads me to the question: What does the UFC hope to gain by entry into the Japanese market? A cultural history, a localized product, a Japanese workforce, and a management team that understands Japanese culture. The UFC doesn't possess any of these qualities with the exception of some homegrown fighters who used to be relevant in Japan.
As Arnold points out, the UFC's figurehead is a man who brought the NBA to China, a completely different market than Japan. They have no history in Japan whatsoever. Their product has no pull in Japan, and the very small distribution deals that they made only reach a minuscule portion of the 127 million people living in the country. The UFC is unwilling to work with another Japanese promotion to help them enter the industry, and to be perfectly honest -- I don't blame them. But it could prove to be a crucial step into successfully turning a profit.
By all accounts, the idea of the UFC running a profitable ship in Japan seems like a waste of time, and it's a mystery to me as to why the UFC is choosing to forgo the burning of cash. Is it some sort of nostalgic way to bring major mixed martial arts' shows back to Japan? Is it a dream that Dana and Lorenzo want to fulfill no matter the cost? How far can a dream go before the large red number at the bottom of the balance sheet screams "Leave the country!"?
If the UFC proves everyone wrong and turns a profit in Japan, I'll be the first to admit I was wrong. From the topical viewpoint that we all have, the UFC doesn't seem to have the resources or capabilities to run a successful promotion in Japan. Their only advantage is the fact that they do have fighters who are Japanese, and they do have a few fighters who have some pull in Japan. Yushin Okami isn't one of them, but Norifumi Yamamoto, Yoshihiro Akiyama, and Michihiro Omigawa, at the very least, can pull some fans to the arena. Unfortunately, the UFC isn't a known product in Japan, and they will be hard pressed to sell it as one without the ability to produce stars and resonate with a very different fanbase. Good luck to you, Zuffa. You're going to need it.
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If the UFC could pull this off,
It would be huge for the company. People in Japan love combat sports. They could put on some pretty big cards their as well. If the UFC could get Overeem which is very likely now since K-1 has not payed him YET! Overeem vs Brock Lesnar could be the main event in Japan. Would be pretty big i think.
Defeat is a state of mind. No one is ever defeated until defeat has been accepted as a reality. Bruce Lee.
Most of the Jap organizations are stuck in financial/managerial limbo right now.
Perfect opportunity.
http://mma.ly - all your favorite MMA websites, on one page.
please don't use "Jap" it's an ethnic slur
take the extra time to type out “Japanese” instead. thanks
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by Nate Wilcox on Feb 22, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
Grew up in NYC, not a slur where I'm from.
But point taken.
http://mma.ly - all your favorite MMA websites, on one page.
maybe it's because I'm old and my dad fought in Okinawa in WWII
so when I’ve heard “Jap” it was definitely spoken with bad intentions.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Feb 22, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
I’m 22 and I was always told the same thing. Maybe it’s regional? I grew up in Oregon, which has a fairly sizable Japanese community.
Then again I live in Canada
and people here tend to be a little less racially sensitive.
by truck on Feb 22, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Most regions don’t view Jap as an ethnic slur and in fact most Japanese people from the mainland are indifferent to the term. It’s mostly just too much racial sensitivity.
'cause the heart that betrays itself willingly, Is like a nation that trades freedom for stability, its so seductive to be cold and corrupted and isolated and try to be an independent republic, But liberty to be loved on the surface is worthless, The sacrifice of revolution with no purpose
by ImmortalTechnique92 on Feb 22, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
Most regions don’t view Jap as an ethnic slur and in fact most Japanese people from the mainland are indifferent to the term.
Nonsense.
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on Feb 22, 2011 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
This is my impression, as well.
I also live in Canada, and I just don’t see race as much of an issue. I don’t really get why people get so upset about it.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
In NYC its a slur
either towards Japanese or the group its more likely being use to describe in NYC
Jewish American Princess
by Papercut Elbow on Feb 22, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
used to live on 24th and park
now im in the fidi.
"How do you shoot the devil in the back? What if you miss?"
good shit
"How do you shoot the devil in the back? What if you miss?"
by DamnSevern on Feb 22, 2011 12:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The general, accepted way to abbreviate is JPN
Liver Kick, formerly HKL
Twitter @LiverKick
Except that Japanese MMA in general has been in a downward trend, not just in financial/business terms, but also in just plain general interest in the sport. The UFC would have to deal with that on top of trying to set up shop in a market that is known for setting up roadblocks when foreign companies try to set up shop.
Never realized till you said something.
Defeat is a state of mind. No one is ever defeated until defeat has been accepted as a reality. Bruce Lee.
by RJshock 305 on Feb 22, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
By all accounts, the idea of the UFC running a profitable ship in Japan seems like a waste of time, and it’s a mystery to me as to why the UFC is choosing to forgo the burning of cash
I think it is pride and stubbornness.
Dana & Lorenzo do not like getting their asses kicked, and they most certainly got their asses kicked the last time they tried to run a Japanese event. I think they are willing to burn some cash just so they can say ‘we did it’.
I think its more about jmma is going under, Dream and SRC are going under, UFC is the top org with the top fighters, Japan is a huge market, how about we go try and get that market.
To me if they are really mma fans and Dream and SRC are going under and the biggest and best mma org with PRide fighters, Japanese fighters and the best fighters in the world come to Japan, wouldnt mma fans care about it and want to see it?
They should try, if they dont care then dont go back but right now jmma isnt in good shape. IF they are really mma fans they would want to see the UFC fighters.
Would it be smart if the UFC bought Dream or SRC and tried to run it in Japan? Build up fighters in Japan, use that org to promote the UFC brand and maybe do a yearly event between the two orgs?
Or is that a waste of money?
I just dont see what hte mystery is, Japan is a huge market, the orgs in Japan are going under, teh UFC is the king of mma, why wouldnt they try to get into this market?
Is Japan a huge market? It seems odd to say that when not only is DREAM and Sengoku having a hard time fielding events, but AO may well be the last K-1 Grand Prix winner . It sort of assumes that FEG is just really really stupid or something, instead of a serious change in the marketplace. The fact that all major Japanese combat sport promotions are on the brink of extinction should tell you that maybe this is a market that you don’t want to jump into.
"an excellent example of why most MMA "journalism" is a joke. Pseudonyms like "toxic" and shitty writing like that dopey article"--- Joe Rogan.
It's a huge market
Japan is the #3 economy in the world behind USA and China. That’s a lot of yen up for grabs no matter what you’re selling.
Never approach a vast undertaking with a half-vast plan.
127 million people strong.
It’s a large market.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 22, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
Its not about MMA fans or anything else
In Japan, fans are more fans of Japan than anything else. Its all about national pride that was stripped away all the way back during World War II. That national pride keeps people from embracing anything not of Japanese origin. Look at videogames. Nintendo and Sony are the kings there and Microsoft, while producing a great product can’t gain a foothold at all in any way shape or form. Microsoft even went as far as to buy Japanese companies and RPG developers. All they did was waste money and get a few extra game sales from RPG fans in other parts of the world.
The origin of the entire company is what matters. Not the supposed MMA fandom or even the nationality of the fighters. Not created by Japanese and run in the Japanese way, no go.
Read tatamiburns excellent article on japanese mma psyche
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/12/14/1875292/japanese-tv-is-not-dy-no-mite
After I lived in japan for 2 years, everything this guy wrote lays out why I believe American product/ideas ultimately fail in japan when american companies have solely marketed on the we’re #1 and superior product angle.
I dont see UFC coming into Japan and doing anything different.
Dana said if they do a card there it will be more like a fight night card rather than a ppv.
U can probaly expect all of these fighters on the card ,barring injury of course.
The Ufc might be able to pull this off especially if Dream K-1 and sengoku are not around anymore
They could bring in guys liike wandy and maybe even a reamtch between Big Nog and Crocop. and of course the guys in the pciture above.
DREAM/K-1 and SRC will always be around, at least the men behind them, as evident by this conglomeration of men trying to put together a small show in the spring. I think it’s a litmus test for Sakakibara’s stench. If they can sell the event out and put on a decent show, perhaps he can garner some forgiveness in the eyes of fans.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 22, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
I dunno, I'd imagine some in Japan want him to commit Seppuku
The Japanese don’t strike me as the sort to forgive and forget when one of their own ends up being exposed as completely dishonorable.
Some one want to give me a hand pronoucing Sakakibara?
Sak-aki-bara?
S-ak-aki-bara?
@rask4p on Twitter
wow such research what expertise
an expat English teacher of Japanese kids, a programmer who “isn’t a savvy observer” of Japanese business, and a few college courses on marketing in Asia (a giant continent full of rich cultural and ethnic diversity that can only be marginalized in one semester).
Here in Seoul, you would be like one of the foreign people who keep referring to everything I do as resulting from “your Confucian background” or the foreigner who thinks he knows everything from what his native girlfriend tells him
by Pete Libertine on Feb 22, 2011 11:29 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
he's doing his best to understand the situation
and explain his thinking. He’s also openly admitting that he’s no expert.
This is a blog written by fans for fans not some sage from the mountaintop.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Feb 22, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
How about you drop some knowledge rather than just nit-picking at Leland’s qualifications?
It’s easy to sit on the sidelines and jeer rather than rather than sharing your own opinions.
by Steve4192 on Feb 22, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
please enlighten us.
http://tini.cc - Simple & Fast URL Shortener
by zzwab on Feb 22, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Why Seoul serious?
"How do you shoot the devil in the back? What if you miss?"
by DamnSevern on Feb 22, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions 12 recs
:)
"How do you shoot the devil in the back? What if you miss?"
by DamnSevern on Feb 22, 2011 12:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Heh. Being of South Korean descent, I actually understand Seoul quite well.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 22, 2011 12:29 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I'm of Irish descent
Have never been to Dublin. Have never set foot in the country. And am not qualified to write about its MMA scene.
by The Ghost of Spike Owen on Feb 22, 2011 1:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Okay...
I’m not claiming to be an expert either. I’m simply connecting what I know to produce a discussion. I would be enlightened to hear points of view from everyone.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 22, 2011 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
It’s comments like these that have no real value to this community. I never once suggested that these were broad ideas that were correct. I simply stated that it’s what I know, and it is in line with what Arnold suggests. It is, by no means, an accurate depiction of the Japanese culture, but through a lot of research into the past failures of American businesses in Japan — those same sentiments run parallel with those failures. As Arnold suggests, anything can happen in Japan in any industry, but it takes either some luck or having the right people with loads of experience.
Over the past few days, I’ve had to field comments like this consistently, and I now know why Luke, at one point in time, came off as rather mean in his comments to users. To be perfectly honest, I’m beginning to feel the same way he did, rather pissed off that users can’t comprehend an opinion and add value to the discussion. If it isn’t someone simply answering the question in the article’s title without reading the piece, it’s stupid comments like this with zero value.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 22, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
He did comprehend the opinion
He just thinks it’s uninformed. Is that not a valid critique?
by The Ghost of Spike Owen on Feb 22, 2011 1:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
A better critique is writing a good enough fanpost rebuttal that can be front paged and show the "other side of the story"
Agreed.
School me in the fine arts of business in Japan. I don’t care. I want fresh perspectives.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 22, 2011 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
Not everyone is aspiring to be the next Josh Gross by writing for free on MMA blogs in order to feed the maws of the SBN overlords
A comments section is for reaction to the article itself. Pete commented that he felt the piece reminded him of less-than-sophisticated views he’d heard expressed by new arrivals to Asia in the past.
If that’s not valid, tell him why not.
If it’s so ludicrous as to not bear response, then ignore him.
But I don’t think questioning the validity of the comment or his right to post it is the way to go.
by The Ghost of Spike Owen on Feb 22, 2011 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
Looked complete to me
Agree to disagree
by The Ghost of Spike Owen on Feb 22, 2011 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
He didn’t comprehend the opinion at all. He assumed I must know it all because I have two acquaintances in the region. His “expertise” comment is farthest from the truth. I simply connected those comments from first-hand accounts with research involving American companies moving into the region and Arnold’s assessments to make an educated opinion. Nobody has to agree with it, but to criticize based on the false notion that I was claiming to be an expert is absurd.
Furthermore, his post isn’t informative, nor does it have any value other than criticizing the writer. This isn’t the Yahoo! comments section.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 22, 2011 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
I guess he was assuming that you were claiming some level of familiarity or "expertise"
just by taking pen to paper in regards to the topic. (But I don’t want to speak for him.)
Admittedly, no longer a safe assumption to make in the blog/internet age. Remnant of a simpler time.
by The Ghost of Spike Owen on Feb 22, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I have some level of familiarity, but not a level that would deem me an expert. I’ve covered Japanese MMA for quite awhile, I understand some of the ins and outs of the industry. This piece is to ask questions. I am by no means an expert, hence why I said that. I was simply making connections to a broader opinion, an opinion that can be countered.
This isn’t your typical blog. We value the community and it’s contributors. We don’t have too much leniency when it comes to comments that don’t add value to the discussion.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 22, 2011 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
We don’t have too much leniency when it comes to comments that don’t add value to the discussion.
All too aware. Just disagree that this is one that fits that description.
by The Ghost of Spike Owen on Feb 22, 2011 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
It isn’t out of bounds, but it would have been nice to hear the counter point. How am I wrong in my opinion? That’s all I want from readers. I want elaboration.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 22, 2011 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
And given that his point in the comment is the lack of expertise/research/background in the piece, you think it’s fair to put that onus on him?
How can you expect a reader to put more time and thought into his comment than you yourself admit you were willing to put into the post?
Perhaps he, as well, is not claiming to be an expert on those new to Asia and how their views of the continent can sometimes be naive, but he calls it as he sees it, and this looks like a good example/instance?
by The Ghost of Spike Owen on Feb 22, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly how am I lacking in research? I want him to tell me. Because from all indications – Arnold, my sentiments derived from first-hand accounts, and research into the failures of American businesses in Japan, I feel that I’m right. I want to hear the counter point.
If he is simply calling it as he sees it, okay, but the comment, in my mind, makes me believe he has a different take. One I’m willing to listen to. If not, then I suppose this conversation is pointless.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 22, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
I think his point is
an expat English teacher of Japanese kids, a programmer who "isn’t a savvy observer" of Japanese business, and a few college courses on marketing in Asia (a giant continent full of rich cultural and ethnic diversity that can only be marginalized in one semester)
does not an insightful view make. I don’t think he necessarily disagrees. I think he feels you haven’t done enough legwork to make the post convincing and compelling.
Saying, “Well, tell me what you think then!” just drags it down into subjectivism so you can both throw mud at each other’s ideas. You wrote the post. Like a professor at a college dissertation, he’s saying he finds the amount of research that went into it underwhelming.
If you want to say, “I didn’t have the time to do more research,” fine.
If you want to say, “It’s a blog post and I’m not claiming to be an expert,” also fine.
But saying he’s out of line and you’re mulling retirement over the lack of quality responses is just wrapping yourself in undeserving martyrdom.
by The Ghost of Spike Owen on Feb 22, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
Well, this isn’t a book I’m writing. I simply put three sources of information together to formulate an opinion. An opinion, I think, is fairly strong. I could write a post that goes into great detail about the business failures to further press the issue, but that isn’t exactly friendly to those who are reading. It’d be a wall of text, that quite frankly — most readers won’t read.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 22, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
I could write a post that goes into great detail about the business failures to further press the issue, but that isn’t exactly friendly to those who are reading. It’d be a wall of text, that quite frankly — most readers won’t read.
I know, you’re right, but you’re speaking my language with this. I’m a New Yorker subscriber. Three columns of text, five pages in a row, with only an occasional pithy cartoon to break it up.
I hate all these damn USA Today infographics that are now pervading everything.
by The Ghost of Spike Owen on Feb 22, 2011 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
I won’t lie. I’ve had to change my style a bit to write within this format. I used to write long-winded pieces, and to some extent — I still do at times. But to get the point across quickly and keep readers engaged, it isn’t possible to write a lengthy research piece. I do know that some people appreciate that, but a lot of passing users to our site want quick, fast information.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 22, 2011 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
But to get the point across quickly and keep readers engaged, it isn’t possible to write a lengthy research piece.
Right, I know Luke used to yell at the guys in the FanPosts to stop writing so long.
I get it. Different medium. Just when I hear “block o’ text” I know somebody is playing my tune for reasons just like we’ve been discussing here. Likelihood of good info well explicated and sourced.
by The Ghost of Spike Owen on Feb 22, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
How can you expect a reader to put more time and thought into his comment than you yourself admit you were willing to put into the post?
He didn’t put any time or effort into his comment, hell you have to wonder if he even put in the five minutes it actually would of taken him to read and comprehend the article properly before he decided to bitch about it.
He didn’t add anything at all but him taking a cheap shot at people he thinks of as foriegners. It’s not like Leland at any place in the article lied about his background or sources or tried to play it off as he knew anymore than he actually did (which is what that guy accused him of doing). If a guy writes an article and says flat out that he isn’t an expert and someone bitches at them for not being an expert then they are either an asshole or utterly failed at reading comprehension. It was a meaningless dick comment from someone who apparently had nothing more to add than a meaningless dick comment.
Fair enough
But if someone reads the whole thing and doesn’t find the sources cited to be very compelling, are they not allowed to comment?
To me, that’s what he was saying. Could he have found a less “dickish” way to say it? Probably. But we’re in the age of internet anonymity now, and civility has largely gone by the wayside. I’m no innocent in that regard, either. A whole other topic, I guess.
by The Ghost of Spike Owen on Feb 22, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
When it is flat out stated in the article that the sources aren’t that strong and the writer isn’t an expert in the subject calling them out for something they admitted to is moronic. Now calling them out for having bad information or misrepresenting the issue would be ok but he didn’t add anything at all to make anyone believe that Leland isn’t correct in his assumptions (you don’t have to be a cultural expert in all things Japan to look at how things have historically worked in JMMA and where it looks to be heading).
Is the article wrong? Is there misrepresentations? If there isn’t then why the hell complain that the writer isn’t a cultural expert? This isn’t an article about Leland Roling it’s an article about the UFC and JMMA. The information presented is the point not the background of the writer.
When it is flat out stated in the article that the sources aren’t that strong and the writer isn’t an expert in the subject calling them out for something they admitted to is moronic.
See, to me, if that’s the case then you just don’t write it. But that was the part about the bygone age.
by The Ghost of Spike Owen on Feb 22, 2011 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
if someone doesn’t write it then how can I read it and be entertained? It’s not like Leland is writing an official goverment study on the subject he is writing a entertainment article for a MMA blog, that he has any background or sources at all is a plus. Why the heck would anyone get bent out of shape about it unless they disagreed with the information presented? Do you have to be Japanese to write a blog post about JMMA?
If someone wrote an article about MMA in Sweden would you bash them for not being experts on Swedish cutlure? What if their information was pretty much presented correctly but they still weren’t Swedish? This isn’t a national culture blog it’s a feaking MMA blog, it shouldn’t be taken so damn personal.
See, what you’re saying is, “If you don’t even disagree with him, why question it?”
But I don’t deny that he’s right. Nor does Pete, so far as I can tell.
Some readers, particularly those who work in the press, just reflexively assess whether something is well sourced or not because it’s what they were trained to do. My question was, if they find something on here not to be well sourced, are they not allowed to comment on it?
I admit I find discussions like this interesting. I like talking meta-media. I find the SBN model fascinating and horrifying in alternating turns because of talks just like this.
by The Ghost of Spike Owen on Feb 22, 2011 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
If you don’t disagree with the presented information then why bash the presenter?
It wasn’t a questioning of the sources it was just a bashing of the presentor for not being a cultural expert and/or not having sources that were cultural experts. For that matter Leland is about a close to an expert on the actual subject here (mixed martial arts industry) as we are going to get so this only came down to just the Japan issue that he framed an opinion about.
Perhaps if the the guy had said “man I would like to see better sources” instead of just bashing the author then the reaction wouldn’t of been what it has been. It is easy to be a jerk on the internet, it’s also easy to pretend to be an expert (or for a 60 year old man to pretend to be a 12 year old girl). Sometimes being civil makes a point better than being a jack ass on the internet and attacking the author instead of the article.
Right
Already said he could have said it less dickishly. Again, we could all afford to be more civil online.
by The Ghost of Spike Owen on Feb 22, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
Calling out the sources without calling out the information presented also gets you into a straw man type situation too. If the information presented in the article is sound then whether the sources are “cultural experts” or not isn’t all that meaningful.
Calling out the sources without calling out the information presented also gets you into a straw man type situation too. If the information presented in the article is sound then whether the sources are "cultural experts" or not isn’t all that meaningful.
Oh no, very much disagree.
If something is so obviously true as to be dog bites man then, again, the article shouldn’t be written at all.
If it’s just something that’s been the subject of groupthink and the writer is just putting it out to dull-eyed applause then readers have a right to demand that the piece be better researched.
by The Ghost of Spike Owen on Feb 22, 2011 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
The facts behind the information and the opinion the writer gives along with those facts are separate things. The article wasn’t just presenting the facts as they stand it was presenting information and opinion about what the future may hold. The information is there to back up his viewpoint, if there was no article then neither the information or the viewpoint would be presented.
Of course no one called out Leland’s opinion here either. This was a complete ignoring of everything in the article except for the admittedly non-expert sources. Why bash sources for not being cultural experts if they are giving meaningful information about a specific subject?
I think he was suggesting the sources lacked understanding of the culture — and how that culture shaped the business practice of the nation — they were commenting on.
Therefore the information was not meaningful because they didn’t grasp the subject they were discussing.
Again, it’s a really easy thing to put to bed if you just respond to the guy with the source’s bona fides.
“Zack has been covering Japanese MMA for some time, and I have no problem using his work as a jumping off place for interpretation and analysis of my own. If you disagree, feel free to find outlets other than BloodyElbow.com and FightOpinion.com.”
Done.
by The Ghost of Spike Owen on Feb 22, 2011 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
Eh i think he was just being a prick and being as he didn’t stick around to discuss the issue nothing has been shown to change my opinion.
Besides if the dude doesn’t know who Zack Arnold is and what he has done in the past then I doubt telling him would change much (being as he didn’t stick around to comment further that information may of never got to him anyway). It’s a blog ment for entertaining MMA fans not for holding our hands and spoonfeeding us, Arnold was mentioned and linked (hell he was a big part of the article), they shouldn’t have to give his bio to a dude in the comments section.
We don’t need to be experts to formulate opinions based on historical evidence and research. To be honest, I’ve read articles by those in Japan that suggest these same opinions.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 22, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
The guy didn’t even bash the article or the information presented he just bashed you for not being a cultural expert on Japan. Apparently you aren’t Japanese enough to write an article about JMMA………
On the funny side his reaction sort of concurs with the opinion presented in your article that the UFC isn’t savvy enough in Japanese culture to operate in Japan :D
To be honest, I’ve read articles by those in Japan that suggest these same opinions.
Including links to them in future posts may help to preclude comments like Pete’s.
by The Ghost of Spike Owen on Feb 22, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
Zach Arnold is one of those people. He’s covered the Japanese side of things for a very long time, and he was the primary man reporting on the PRIDE-Yakuza scandal.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 22, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
I'd have that be your reply to comments like Pete's in the future
Rather than a lament about how crappy the comments have been of late.
by The Ghost of Spike Owen on Feb 22, 2011 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry, but this is a standard we promote often. We have an unique community here. This isn’t the Yahoo! comment thread where people call Maggie an idiot and Steve a moron for 75% of the comments and it’s completely unmoderated.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 22, 2011 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
What standard is that?
The standard of calling someone ridiculous because they questioned the way you did something?
I’ll grant you I’ve seen it done here in the past, but it’s hardly something to aspire to.
by The Ghost of Spike Owen on Feb 22, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
The standard of calling someone being a dick a dick. You are defending a guy who bashed something without giving a meaningful reason and then didn’t even stick around to discuss why or to give a counter point.
I'm not defending anybody.
I said he could have asked it more courteously and politely.
The question is whether or not he raised a valid question. I think he did. The two ways I think it would not be asked in the future are 1.) better source the piece itself or 2.) when engaging questions in the comments about the sourcing, point out the sources’ strength, rather than wondering aloud why some people can’t just accept their authority prima facie.
by The Ghost of Spike Owen on Feb 22, 2011 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
who me said it best.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 22, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
I have figuratively facepalmed at every one of your posts in this topic. You seem incredibly offbase to the point of me wondering if you could be Pete’s other account.
Hardcore MMA fan since UFC 99
by ChiCubs23 on Feb 22, 2011 2:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Bypass Japan go to South Korea instead
I’ve always thought it would be better for the UFC to aim at S.Korea instead of Japan.
1) S. Korea is much more willing to work with western companies/ buy western products
2) Has a few smaller orgs that have kept running on their own while sending fighters to Japanese shows and the UFC.
3) Geographically close to Japan. if the rumors are true that some Jap orgs are not paying fighters having a economic alternative, much closer to home than the states, will naturally see Japanese fighters drift over.
I have always wondered why they havent went into korea yet also.
I heard dana talk about it last year that they wanted to go there soon. I know mma is pretty big in korea so it sounds like it would work there..
Like what your saying.
And you are right, Jap Orgs are having trouble paying fighters. Overeem still hasnt been paid.
Defeat is a state of mind. No one is ever defeated until defeat has been accepted as a reality. Bruce Lee.
by RJshock 305 on Feb 22, 2011 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
Get Blizzard as a sponsor
James Raynor’s face on Akiyamas shorts would make me nerdgasm
Dear audio diary: Today I may have accidentally registered myself as a sex offender! WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY LIFE
- T-Rex
by sitnam90 on Feb 22, 2011 11:56 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
BAM!
Sponsor a Starcraft tournament and you’re golden. Get one of the superstar gamers to fight in an MMA fight…. GOLD!
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 22, 2011 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
and in reverse
Have a MMA fighter start conmpeting on the SC circuit.
Enter Joe Lauzon
Dear audio diary: Today I may have accidentally registered myself as a sex offender! WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY LIFE
- T-Rex
by sitnam90 on Feb 22, 2011 1:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Oh shit...
My head exploded.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 22, 2011 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
South Korea's a genius idea
But no North Korean would ever have a chance at passing a drug test. They’re all juche-ing.
This is kinda naive but...
I wonder if Zuffa has thrown around the idea of rebooting the Pride model? It would be very cool to see some of the newer UFC fighters in a ring situation, and bring the Pride mainstays like say Cro-Cop, Wandy, etc. back to Japan. If they had 3 of these events a year in Japan that would be enough, I think the problem with JMMA now is diffusion of talent coupled with over saturation between DREAM, WVR, DEEP, Shooto…the JMMA fans just seem confused since Pride left.
Who's the only one here who knows illegal ninja moves from the government?
I already posted this link earlier in the comments, but
i think this article fits here as to why UFC couldnt pull off the PRIDE model in Japan
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/12/14/1875292/japanese-tv-is-not-dy-no-mite
Basically, the UFC fighters would have to stick around longer in Japan, and be willing to cross-promote into non-sport related TV shows (sitting on stage in various variety shows, etc.) to get interest in UFC to the japanese public.
I dont believe that wound fit into the UFC’s business model, and I maybe wrong but I don’t see UFC being willing to change for Japan either.
It will be hard for Dream to keep going since they have a rep of not paying fighters on time
who in there right mind would trust them and sign with them,?
Don’t underestimate the draw of foreign things in Japan.
Japan LOVES foreign things. They are glamorous, exotic, desirable…
If the UFC rolls into town guns blazing (assuming they get past all the red tape and punch perms) then they will fill an arena easily.
Be water, my friend.
http://www.scramblestuff.com (Imported Japanese MMA goods!)
http://www.thegrapplingdummy.com (my Blog)
While that is true, it is generally in a freakshow fashion or a mainstream superstar type fashion. I don’t see Dana White going the freakshow route here and there are no UFC fighters at the level of mainstream worldwide superstardom to draw that kind of reaction and even if there were, the UFC is not going to waste one of their big drawing fights on a Japanese card that could bomb there no matter what they do.
One thing that the UFC has going for them is that they can afford to fail. They make enough money doing other stuff that a card or two losing money is not the end of the world. They don’t need to fill Saitama and be on network TV in Japan to be successful. Keeping a presence, having another place to have cards so they don’t need to go to vegas every month, and making even 1 dollar will be very good for them.
UFC should invest in Cage Force
It’s a Japanese promotion that uses a cage and I believe more or less follows the unified rules of MMA. It’s also had Yoshiyuki Yoshida and Dan Hardy fight there back in the day. It’s already a Japanese promotion run by Japanese people and that might be the way to eventually get UFC on tv by getting Cage Force more visibility on TV themselves.
UFC have decided that prelim fighters are allowed to fight in other promotions if no fights are available to them so Japanese fighters can be brought over to the UFC and then fight next in Cage Force unless they do really well stateside. Similarly it allows western fighters to be sent to Cage Force to cut their teeth or ‘prove’ themselves in the land of the rising sun.
While western companies suffer in Japan, from most accounts Japanese companies accept western investment or partnerships.
Amen...
That was my thinking… Use Cage Force as a partner.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 22, 2011 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
That just seems a bit odd though. I don’t like to use team sports comparisons, but it’d be like the NHL partnering up with the NLA Swiss League to gain a foothold in Europe. It’d never get taken seriously, because Cage Force is 3rd-tier Japanese MMA. If you attach yourself to something no one cares about…how are you helping yourself? The foothold is great, but that’s all there would be.
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European Hockey culture isn't that much different to North American, though
And as a result NHL could go into Europe as itself without much resistance – in fact European Hockey would likely embrace it. So in fairness I think that’s a bad comparison.
Japanese culture is a completely different animal and it really does seem to be like another world. The investment in Cage Force would be similar to that of the WEC – take a promotion, spruce up the aesthetic and product, and slowly build and market it. WEC was nothing before the Zuffa take over lets be frank – and although they didn’t get where they wanted to go with WEC, they did do an incredible amount with it.
With Cage Force though it can’t be a take over. It has to be a partnership and investment because of how much importance lays in keeping a company Japanese but without forcing a perceived Japanese image and making it hokey and a parody of itself.
I understand that. It wasn’t a direct comparison. It was meant to point out that you can’t take something seen as nothing, attach yourself to it, and expect greatness. They don’t want to invest in Cage Force and spend years cultivating it. They want to attach themselves to something NOW and go in.
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
Ehh, even if they go in straight away they're not going to make money off the bat in Japan
Just based on the economy. I think the economy in South Korea and certainly China is in better condition then Japan and it wouldn’t surprise me if Japan is no longer the center of MMA in Asia.
Yeah, but it seems to be a standard that has worked before for other companies. I don’t know if it necessarily works for the sport environment though.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 22, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
And really...
You’re only attaching yourself to gain the services of those “in the know” in terms of how sports works in Japan, and how to gain the eyes of Japanese fans.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 22, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
Well, you should be attaching yourself to someone or something that has the respect of the Japanese people to begin with, don’t you think? It’s not just about someone guiding you – it’s about acceptance.
Still a Beer Monster.
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Well, that would be a good idea, yes… but what has huge value to the people in Japan in the MMA market? I suppose K-1 is a brand that resonates, but I would believe Strikeforce has the upper hand there. And Dana White strikes me as the type to ignore that part of the equation and do what he has done in the past.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 22, 2011 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
Why does it necessarily have to be in the MMA market? If you look at who they’ve partnered with before and who people like the WWE have partnered with to make inroads in Japan, it doesn’t necessarily have to be an MMA company or promotion. I’m no expert in this either, but it just seems like you need a branch-off point that commands respect. It doesn’t HAVE to be an apples to apples company, does it?
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
True, good point. I suppose the obvious is a television company such as the ones they are partnered with now.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 22, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think there's going to be a promotion left that has national respect in Japan
Then there’s also the issue of how many of these Japanese promotions have a Yakuza influence. UFC has do to due diligence before partnering with anyone because it can effect the Fertitta’s gaming license and their casinos (even though the Limited Liability nature of the UFC keeps their operations separate to Station Casinos)
by KJ Gould on Feb 22, 2011 1:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Then there’s also the issue of how many of these Japanese promotions have a Yakuza influence. UFC has do to due diligence before partnering with anyone because it can effect the Fertitta’s gaming license and their casinos (even though the Limited Liability nature of the UFC keeps their operations separate to Station Casinos)
Great point, and that’s why I believe Zuffa will stay out of connecting themselves with anyone. Cage Force sounds like a great idea, but in retrospect with this point brought up — maybe not.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 22, 2011 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
If Cage Force has a Yakuze influence, forget about it
And it’s also going to be hard to tell because it’s not like the Yakzua advertise what company’s strings they’re pulling.
Exactly.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 22, 2011 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
And it’s also going to be hard to tell because it’s not like the Yakzua advertise what company’s strings they’re pulling.
In the Kakutougi industry?
All of ’em.
Everyone in the industry is, at the very least, paying them tribute. Some (like DSE) take it further and have them actively get involved in running the business, but nobody is completely free of their influence.
I wonder if that may be something that keeps Zuffa from even looking into working with Japanese MMA organizations. What would the Nevada Gaming Control Board’s influence on the Fertitta’s being involved with a Japanese company with Yakuza ties? As odd as it is that men who’s family was historically involved with organized crime can’t do business with companies that may have ties to organized crime I’m pretty sure how it works with casino owners/operators.
It is off topic but demonstrations have been going on in Bahrain. If that spreads to Abu Dhabi I have to wonder about that 10% stake in Zuffa.
Accepted rulers and organized crime are two very different things (at least as far as the law goes :D ).
I wonder what the state of cultural unrest is in the UAE? They have a huge imigrant population and a minority of “locals”. they also seem to have a more liberal economy.
Emirati 19%, other Arab and Iranian 23%, South Asian 50%, other expatriates (includes Westerners and East Asians) 8% (1982)
note: less than 20% are UAE citizens (1982)
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ae.html
Bahrain is part of the UAE and they just cancelled the opening Formula1 race because of what is going on there. The security forces were shooting the protesters last week and it looks like the protesters are out in force again today.
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/02/201122218425669628.html
Bahrain is a independant island kingdom off the coast of Saudi Arabia. The UAE is a constitutional grouping of city states to the south on the mainland (they do not even share a border, Quatar is between them). Both are run by monoarchys but the UAE has a constitutional structure that holds the separate city states together and protects the basic human rights of it’s citizens (the negative is that only 20% are actually citizens the rest are imigrants). They are very different countries with very different situations and while the same types of protest could spread throughout the area for the UAE the issue isn’t their own citizens it’s all the immigrants(50% of the population is from south asia).
That is a very good point, but it’s honestly something that has to be taken into account when going into a lot of different companies. The partnership with Flash, for instance.
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
And if the UFC chooses to get into business with a company outside the realm of MMA, it MIGHT mean less/no yakuza influence as well.
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
I thought that was what they were trying to do with Fuji TV but to no avail
Unless they were just trying for a TV deal and nothing more.
The article is right
I know something about the japanese culture, and they really don´t like foreign companies leading business in their country. As an example just look the American Microsoft Xbox 360 sales in comparison to the Japanese Sony Playstation 3 and Nintendo Wii.
They like foreign fighters, even love them, but they must be under a japanese company.
To be fair, as it concerns Microsoft
They’ve made the mistake of trying to Japanify their product and it backfired. They tried to exhibit they’re more Japanese than Japanese and it was considered a failure before they even launched the 360.
On the other hand, games like GTA have found surprising success in recent years, something not to be expected in the days of Pride. It indicates that the Japanese are receptive to quality foreign products that fill a want not addressed by their own culture.
MMA anyone?
Been waiting awhile to see a contrasting opinion on the matter from BE. Yet we just see the same articles over and again.
"I can be friends with anybody. Man. Woman. Cat. Dog. Fish..... Alien." -Rampage
by Charles Awad on Feb 22, 2011 12:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I agree with you
But:
It indicates that the Japanese are receptive to quality foreign products that fill a want not addressed by their own culture.
I think MMA is familiar to japanese culture, they know martial arts, is something addressed by their own cultue. GTA was a complete different concept. But you´re right, maybe the younger generations in Japan will embrace the UFC if Zuffa uses a good marketing strategy, different than Microsoft.
Not to nitpick, but GTA = the Yakuza series
I think the UFC can do well enough to air one successful card annually, right now.
"I can be friends with anybody. Man. Woman. Cat. Dog. Fish..... Alien." -Rampage
by Charles Awad on Feb 22, 2011 3:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
We've heard this all before
And I think people’s fears are overstated.
"I can be friends with anybody. Man. Woman. Cat. Dog. Fish..... Alien." -Rampage
by Charles Awad on Feb 22, 2011 11:58 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I know this is nitpicky...
They have no history in Japan whatsoever.
That’s not entirely true. The UFC held 3 events there in the 90s. They weren’t blockbusters (they lost money, actually) and were under the SEG banner, but the small video library does give them a little bit of history. In that way they could portray it as a “back to our roots” thing, both in terms of the UFC’s humble beginnings and the sport of MMA as a whole. Giving Japan credit as a keystone of the foundation of MMA as a whole and the UFC specifically (even if it’s not technically true for the UFC) could play very well, and turn the marketing into “building the Japanese scene back up” rather than trying to take it over.
by gzl5000 on Feb 22, 2011 12:03 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
The UFC doesn’t have to lose money there. If they run the show at noon in Japan then they can show it in the normal time slot in North America and make it a PPV. With the profits they make on PPV they can run with a completely empty arena if they want to. A PPV would drive some extra viewers from the curious. Would they make as much as they could some where else? No. But they don’t have to lose money.
If Zufa is going to make a go of it they have to do it while they still have a few Pride stars fighting. But I agree with others though that I don’t understand why the North American companies are so gung ho to go there.
Japanese culture
Don’t let all the bowing and aesthetically submissive behavior fool you. They take care of their own.
This is the same culture whose US-based grocery stores sell American products re-labeled in Japanese. That bottle of Dove soap is manufactured stateside, labeled in Japanese, exported, then re-imported by said Japanese grocery chain, to be sold to Americans of Japanese descent, all in the name of nationalism.
Brash, aggressive behavior is career suicide. Someone in the UFC just might exhibit those qualities.
It is about nationalism and propaganda in the end
It is a concept of nationalism, well different than the United States nationalism. In USA, the difficult times, like Vietnam War or McCarthyism was always criticized later or even in the time. There was a certain freedom of speech.
In Japan, they do not talk about it. The schools books don´t talk about the Second World War. I think this is changing, but at a very very slow pace.
As someone who was both a student and teacher in the Japanese school system
I have to correct this comment. It’s a common misconception that the Japanese try to bury or gloss over the unsavory side of their military history such as WWII or the Sino-Japanese wars. These days it’s part of the regular curriculum to study these wars and the political climate that led to it, and a surprising number of Japanese people have a very balanced attitude toward that period of their history.
Are there jingoistic teachers who try to put their own spin on things, or certain parts of the country that take hawkish nationalism way too far? Absolutely. But it’s not all that different from all the confederate flag waving rednecks in the U.S. Every country has their fair share of people like that.
"I want to tell me what you see, let's go ahead and see by in the fight, what you saw, in the ring." - Tito Ortiz
by CasualMMAFan on Feb 22, 2011 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Is it a dream that Dana and Lorenzo want to fulfill no matter the cost? How far can a dream go before the large red number at the bottom of the balance sheet screams “Leave the country!”?
I wouldn’t be surprised if this is part of the reasoning (besides just looking to be the combat sport equivalent to Soccer in the rest of the world). Dana and Lorenzo are business men, but they’re also fan boys at heart. It explains their obsession with Fedor, and their willingness to offer him boatloads of money. I don’t doubt they would love to ressurect MMA in Japan under the Zuffa banner. But this only goes up to a certain point. I think their business instincts outweigh their fan boy desires, and while they will try their hand at Japan, I don’t see them being foolish about it. They probably have a dollar amount in their heads as to how much they are willing to lose in Japan before giving up and moving on.
Japan has a huge consumer base, true
but there are plenty of American-based sports that do just fine without “breaking into the Japanese market”…Football, MLB Baseball. NBA Basketball, etc…are all still making money (generally) and thriving without conquering the World audience
As Shu Hirata has pointed out, baseball has Japanese stars who are successful in America, Ichiro for instance. Japan doesn’t have that at all. China had Yao Ming act as a means to making it more successful in China. The UFC doesn’t really need Japan to make coffers of cash. Agreed.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 22, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not an expert in Japanese culture by any stretch of the imagination. My understanding of the business practices in the region stems from four international business classes and a class on marketing in Asia. While I learned the basic lessons of knowing your audience, product placement, etc., there isn’t anything that can prepare a company for entry into Japan.
I’ve taken some international business classes on that as well, and it’s basically true – Japan as a market is just damn near impenetrable to an ‘outside’ company, regardless of how big they are in the States or elsewhere. I’m just not sure what they can possibly do to get around that. They’d be better served further cementing their hold on other international markets that have been more open to their expansion.
Well, not completely impenetrable. From what I’ve researched, slow and steady wins the race in Japan. The problem is… the UFC doesn’t have 20 years to get ahead.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Feb 22, 2011 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
What about KFC?
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by Chris Barton on Feb 22, 2011 6:57 PM EST up reply actions
The Japanese KFC expansion was actually a really interesting object lesson in how to break into that market. The key to their success, though, was largely due to the fact that they relied on Japanese nationals and local leadership to implement their strategy rather than just barging in and trying to do things their own way.
Have you seen any of the Japanese KFC commercials? Their marketing campaign there is absolutely brilliant, and it’s perfectly tailored toward the Japanese culture and how to appeal to them.
"I want to tell me what you see, let's go ahead and see by in the fight, what you saw, in the ring." - Tito Ortiz
by CasualMMAFan on Feb 22, 2011 7:22 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I think you need to change your name to HardcoreKFCFan. Good stuff.
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Not completely, but pretty close to it for companies that aren’t willing or able to adapt to its market. And the UFC already has some significant obstacles in their way with no easy solutions that prevent them from making a big splash in Japan w/out taking the time to get over in that country, time they may not necessarily have as you noted.
While overall success there wouldn’t totally hinge on them having a prominent and relevant Japanese fighter in their org, it would certainly help. Not to mention that the overall presentation for Japanese MMA compared to its American counterpart is significantly different, and thus unfamiliar to some of the market they’re trying to win over. Getting on TV over there would help a great deal in that regard.
I’m based in Macau, however I’ve traveled to and worked with a company in just about every single Asian country (Myanmar/Burma is the lone exception), however the business culture is pretty much the same as what everyone views Japan as. China, it’s two SARS (a bit of a pun, but HK and Macau), Taiwan and Singapore seem to be the few exceptions in this region in terms of nationalistic pride when it comes to a business with a tangible product (I use tangible loosely in this case for the UFC), so it shocks me that the UFC would decide to run with someone who really only has a background in marketing to the Chinese speaking/cultural countries like China, Taiwan and Singapore.
Both Korea and Japan would be decent markets for the UFC, however taking the same approach as they do in China, as your article states means the UFC is destined for failure.
One thing they should do, if FEG and the combat sports conglomerates in Japan finally go belly up is to grab a few of the clean executives there and start their own attack on both Japan and Korea. They need to ditch the idea that one gaijin who only has a background in marketing to China can work his magic in Japan and Korea or the rest of Asia, it simply just won’t work.
by drawp on Feb 22, 2011 8:20 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Part of this is just how business works in Japan. It’s all about personal relationships, even between companies, and without the sort of introduction that a established local brand can give, it’ll be really hard for the UFC to get much traction.
As regards MMA organizations being tied up w/ the Yakuza I’d have to agree that it’s near 100%, the Proresu world which spawned JMMA is notorious for being ganged up and always has been right back to Rikidozan.
by WanderleiNoooooo! on Feb 23, 2011 3:17 PM EST reply actions

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