Donaire vs Montiel and the Debate Over Boxing's Safety vs MMA

Two things should be noted:

1. While Montiel was definitely on dream street, I didn’t see anything that looked seizure-like or anything like that. The fact that he got up is a testament to the heart of Fernando Montiel;

2. I absolutely agree the fight should not have continued, but it’s important to state that it went on for about one second. Two punches were thrown, Montiel was clearly still out of it, and the ref jumped in and called off the fight. It was a mistake by the ref to let the fight continue, but he quickly changed his mind before any more damage could be inflicted.

I don’t really like wading into these debates about one sport being safer than the other, I just thought it was important to point out the continuation of the fight didn’t lead to Montiel sustaining any more damage.

And just to say that the Filipino Flash is awesome and I think he’s the next big think in boxing. I know he wants to unify at 118, but it will be so awesome when he goes up and takes on Juan Manuel Lopez.

Compare it to the stoppage of Mir vs. Carwin and you quickly realize that combat sports involve people inflicting damage on an opponent and human referees will make human errors.

There’s an argument to be made that in a perfectly officiated world that MMA is safer than boxing, but I disagree with the methodology that MDS is using.

The ref stoppage was awful, boxing is turrible, MMA numba 1 etc. etc. but goddamn that was a beautiful thing to see.

Side note: Right hook to the head? Was ist das?

How long can Thomas and Smith engage in the same kinds of discussion? It’s like we’re stuck in a bad version of Groundhog’s Day.

MMA fans should not be using “safety” as a reason the sport should be legalized anywhere. It’s cage fighting. It’s inherently unsafe

But the beard is famous.

One step that can be taken to make MMA a little safer is for there to be a greater emphasis on fighters using restraint when finishing. I know that fighters and all athletes are trained not to stop until the ref intervenes or a whistle is blown, but we’ve seen enough examples of fighters stopping when their opponent is clearly out (i.e. Harris vs. Branch, Lawler vs. Lindland). I feel like footage of fighters getting an extra 2-5 shots to the face of an unconscious opponent fuels anti-MMA advocates and at this point is simply unnecessary. Like I said, enough fighters have stopped at the appropriate time that we know it is a feasible option. I’m not saying guys should be penalized for eliminating any doubt and continuing until the ref stops it, but it’s a point that should be emphasized, perhaps even rewarded by promoters and commissions (beyond the obvious reward of having Rogan say “that just shows you what good sportsmanship fighter X has”).

Also, what about implementing replay, to ensure that guys who stop fighting because their opponent has lost consciousness but quickly came back without the ref noticing are not penalized for erring on the safe side?

Also, this article is correct in that Smith is oversimplifying the issue here.

Boxing is less safe than MMA in my view, but everything is thrown out the window as long as you have one really bad referee. Mir vs. Carwin and Edwards vs. Thomson should not have gone on forever and those are MMA examples. Donaire vs. Montiel should not have been given a chance to continue and it’s a bad referee. I bet you Kenny Bayless would’ve stopped it without a count.

The referee misapplied the rules. The ref was lacking, not the rules.

Likewise, the 10-point-must system is fine. MMA judges suck at applying it. The problem is not with the system: it’s with the judges as they apply it.

A good carpenter doesn’t blame their tools.

I saw the fight as it was happening and was AMAZED at 2 things 1) Montiel was able to answer the 10-count and 2) The ref let the fight continue. Montiel was knocked out COLD for a good few seconds and by my book that equals the fight being over even if he manages to regain consciousness.

in countries like Thailand and the like, there are a TON of mismatches being placed. People getting severely battered for 12 rounds because they are some people desperate for money who would take on guys even if they are on obvious mismatches.

sure the 10 count is really bad for the fighters, but nitpicking and choosing a point and a decision where even boxing experts think is wrong, is well… not a good way to put out your point.

For me, it’s like nitpicking when Mazagatti lets a fight run for too long, and make a case how the entire sport MMA is too brutal.

In boxing, when a fighter gets knocked down, the referee starts counting, and the fighter has until a 10 count to get back to his feet. Which means a boxer whose brain is concussed badly — as Montiel’s brain was concussed when Donaire knocked him down in the second round — can stagger back to his feet to take more punishment.

This is just straight up wrong, as, in modern refereeing, the ten count is used to carefully assess a fighter’s condition and abiliy to continue fighting, not simply to let them recover a little and send them back out.

This was an example of poor refereeing, and can’t really be used as a fair comparison of the safety of two different sport’s systems, to any considerable extent.

if i look at the clip it actually seems like the ‘twitch’ is him regaining consiousness… from my view anyway.
 ( this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGSMKmbEFq4)

Something else that might make boxing more dangerous than MMA are the gloves. Being so padded and big they allow fighters to take many many more blows to the head than normal. This allows fights to go on for longer… again increasing the bodily harm that can be done before the ‘drop that floods the bucket’.

My mother, who is a nurse, has often told me about boxers who got brain damage not from the KO punches but from all the repetetive less-than-ko punches. Death by a thousand stings, so to say.

My point:
Could small gloves be argued for boxing?