Can Strikeforce Maintain Its Recent Ratings Success?
by Matt Bishop on Feb 15, 2011 4:00 PM EST
in Strikeforce Analysis
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Scott Coker and Ken Hershman have to be smiling following the release of the ratings for Saturday's "Strikeforce: Fedor vs. Silva," an event that broke the one million viewer mark for the first time for Strikeforce. The show also drew an average of 741,000 viewers, demolishing the old record of 576,000 set in August 2009 for "Carano vs. Cyborg."
On top of this success, last month's "Strikeforce: Diaz vs. Cyborg" also drew a solid number for Showtime, averaging 561,000 viewers for Nick Diaz's welterweight title defense against Evangelista Santos.
For the first time in the promotion's history with Showtime, it appears it is building some forward momentum instead of just treading water. Can this forward progress be sustained, though? If Strikeforce plays its cards right, there's no reason for it not to be.
Saturday's broadcast from IZOD Center in New Jersey was probably the best all-around broadcast Strikeforce and Showtime have done in terms of letting you know, "Hey, this is kind of a big deal." For the first time in a long time, I felt like these fights had meaning and weren't just randomly matched fights that didn't lead to anything in the future. These fights had purpose. For the remainder of this tournament, that's going to be the case. One of the things the UFC does well is to make sure you have a reason to care about its bigger fights. Whether billing a fight as a No. 1 contender bout, or having championship fights the fans care about, they are great at this. To be fair, it's easy to be great at it when you have the best fighters in the world.
That means Strikeforce has to work extra hard at getting people to care about its product. The promotion went through a stretch following the CBS show in Nashville where it was very difficult to get into what the promotion was doing. Now, Strikeforce is giving me reason to care, and care a lot, and that's why things are shaping up to be very good for the promotion in 2011 if nothing goes awry.
Coker and Friends have lined things up very well for this year. Obviously the World Grand Prix Heavyweight Tournament is a big reason why people are excited about Strikeforce. Add in the possible return of Herschel Walker and the comeback of Gina Carano and you have the needed ingredients to get back on CBS, something that would be huge this year if they can pull it off. In addition, Fedor Emelianenko should still be a ratings attraction despite losing two in a row for the first time in his career and Fabricio Werdum and Antonio Silva should be bigger stars now having beaten Emelianenko. Then you add in people like Diaz and Strikeforce's other exciting champions and things could be on the upswing.
The real key is going to be the March 5 show in Columbus, Ohio featuring a Rafael Cavalcante light-heavyweight title defense against Dan Henderson. Henderson's last show, headlining against Renato Sobral in December, averaged 341,000 viewers. Cavalcante's last fight, against "King Mo" Lawal in August, averaged 367,000 viewers. If these two have a good ratings outing on Showtime, the proof will be in the pudding. That's momentum. If not, well, the return of the heavyweight tournament will only be a month later and, in theory, should do good numbers considering the success of Saturday's show.
As is always the case, time will be the judge of this, but there's no doubt Strikeforce is starting to get the very important little things right. That should lead to success in the future.
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I hope so.
The tourney is going to take a big hit without Fedor and Arlovski though.
Overeem himself can’t carry this thing.
We might have a chance to go full catastrofuck
Werdum wins, Brett wins
Werdum vs. Silva II
Rogers vs Kharitonov
Actually, that doesn’t sound too terrible. It’d be interesting to see if Silva can avenge his loss and Rogers vs. The Russian would be badass.
If Werdum were to beat Overeem, Bigfoot again, and then one of the other three
it would be hard to not give him #1 status
by Austin Martin on Feb 15, 2011 4:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Rankings will always be a subject of great dispute
especially when the top tier fighters are almost evenly split between two organisations with little recent crossover in the way of fights.
It’s be pretty awesome of Dana used his cunning and wits to spirit away the tournament winner to the UFC to fight the champion.
My thoughts going in were...
Only Overeem, Fedor, Werdum had a chance of ending up at number one.
For this to happen:
Werdum would have to beat Overeem and Fedor
Overeem would have to beat Werdum and Fedor
Fedor would have to win the tourney
With Fedor’s loss, I don’t think the winner will end up at number 1.
To claim that Werdum should be ranked number one, you’d first have to explain why he should be ranked higher than Junior Dos Santos, even though JDS beat him convincingly (and has probably gotten better since then).
To claim that Werdum should be ranked number one, you’d first have to explain why he should be ranked higher than Junior Dos Santos
No you don’t.
Not every number one ranked fighter is undefeated.
Nobody is calling for Luciano Azevedo to be ranked above Jose Aldo
by truck on Feb 15, 2011 5:30 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
There’s a big difference between the two, don’t you think? After JDS whipped Werdum, he destroyed several other top fighters and has continued to get better.
If Azevedo fought Aldo today, FIVE YEARS after their initial fight, we’d have every reason to think the result would be entirely different. What’s changed in the past two years to make you think Werdum would now beat JDS?
JDS's wins were over Gonzaga, Struve, Yvel, Cro Cop, And Nelson
That isn’t an easy schedule by any means, but IF Werdum were somehow able to have a five fight streak with the following SOS:
Bigfoot, Fedor, Overeem, Bigfoot, and Kharitonov/Barnett/Rogers
I don’t think you argue against him being #1, or at least 1a
by Austin Martin on Feb 15, 2011 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
JDS is ranked over Werdum, and that’s not going to change if Werdum wins this tourney and JDS beats Brock.
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by Derek Suboticki on Feb 15, 2011 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
Not that it should change, but the argument could certainly be made.
That said, if Overeem wins the tourney he’s probably going to be #1
by Austin Martin on Feb 15, 2011 6:05 PM EST up reply actions
Because he’ll finally have two top ten wins?
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Nate: When I banned Subo?
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by Derek Suboticki on Feb 15, 2011 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
well that, and because “experts” like Jesse Holland already have him at #1, if i’m not mistaking
I’m not saying it’s justified, I’m just saying it’s probable
by Austin Martin on Feb 15, 2011 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
Three.
For those keeping score at home:
Three is more than two.
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by Worldisart on Feb 15, 2011 7:17 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
He was not top-10. Dude was 45 and inactive for 15 months. Not even zuffadog had him in their top-10.
by mortarz on Feb 16, 2011 1:36 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You said cbs isnt going to waste money combating zuffa and the fact is they wont ever need to. They compete using two different models and the market is big enough to accomodate 2 big promotions and Dana probably knows this. Dana isnt going to push the sport main stream and put strikeforce out of business at the same time when he knows ufc will always be bigger and strikeforce success only furthers the sport.
If he loses to Brock it can change but the chances of that happening are about as good as Minowaman joining the UFC this year.
We’re going to see JDS on his back for extended periods of time. It will be interesting.
Luke: What was our best moment?
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by Derek Suboticki on Feb 15, 2011 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
Three in a row (Couture, Mir, Carwin). Plus #1 lost the week before he beat #3.
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
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by Derek Suboticki on Feb 15, 2011 6:45 PM EST up reply actions
Not that I think Werdum should jump ahead of JDS but
wasn’t Chuck Liddell number one after losing to Rampage Jackson?
I dunno, but that would strike me as pretty dumb. I suppose a case could have been made that Liddell (1) had been facing and beating tougher competition than Rampage over the period considered by the rankings and (2) just got caught. I can understand this argument, even if I don’t find it persuasive.
But these arguments don’t seem applicable to JDS and Werdum. They’ve fought relatively comparable levels of competition in recent years (yes, I think we can now recognize that Fedor wasn’t as great as he once was when he fought Werdum), and JDS’s KO of Werdum wasn’t an instance of someone just “getting caught.”
Not really. Beating three guys ranked behind him doesn't necessarily vault him ahead of guys ranked ahead of him.
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by Richard Wade on Feb 15, 2011 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
It doesnt sound terrible at all. That shows the genius of Strikeforce, you know all of the fighters in the tournament and have an emotional investment in the fights. That is what it is all about.
Werdum beat Fedor, Dos Santos beat Werdum, Joaquim Ferreira beat Dos Santos. Therefore Ferreira is WAAAAY better than Fedor. Keep MMA math alive!
i will bet a thousand bucks overeem wont bite shit. TKO 1st round
by GracieHunter on Feb 15, 2011 10:13 PM EST up reply actions
As far as a Final goes, I think that the best outcome has got to be Overeem vs Barnett. However, with Sergei KOing Arlovski to hell, there is definitely some interest in Sergei especially if he can have some sort of highlight reel finish on the winner of Barnett vs Rogers (which I don’t hink will happen), and he is the last person to defeat Alistair Overeem if Overeem should make it to the Finals.
I won't jump off the bandwagon just because you lost.
there's no doubt Strikeforce is starting to get the very important little things right.
Yeah, but they still shouldn’t use The Joker for their commentary team.
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by some schmuck in texas on Feb 15, 2011 4:08 PM EST reply actions
Then again the main event turned into Two-Face's origin story
so maybe it’s ok.
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by some schmuck in texas on Feb 15, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
Fedor can now play Two-Face.
The Machiavellian.
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by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 15, 2011 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
one thing is clear
whether it is rational or not, people like tournaments.
bellator has been doing it for a while. if strikeforce can do the same thing with bigger stars, it might help create some “stories” that people get into following.
having said that, i sort of want them both to fail so all their fighters will go in the ufc and i can see ben askren fight nick diaz, etc.
also
in the short run fedor losing is a disaster, but in the long run it’s way better than constantly being pushed around by M1.
also, beating fedor is giving SF heavyweights more respect and interest. SF really can’t lose with Fedor.
Werdum beat Fedor, Dos Santos beat Werdum, Joaquim Ferreira beat Dos Santos. Therefore Ferreira is WAAAAY better than Fedor. Keep MMA math alive!
This is the same thing that the UFC did with...
…fading stars like Randy and Noguiera. Those weren’t necessarily difficult wins as they would have been 5 years ago, but they propelled their prospects to “name” status. Hell beating Cro Cop made Gonzaga look like something he wasn’t for that matter. The same can be done with Fedor. SF needs to push the hell out of Silva if he can run the table.
I think a huge problem for them is lack of highlight promotional footage for their headlining fighters. As each of them have more fights under the SF banner, they’ll be able to cut much better promos.
Funny thing...
…Strikeforce was able to use footage from Affliction for the Arlovski-Fedor fight that I had assumed Zuffa now owned since their deal with Affliction. Apparently Affliction probably had already allowed Elite XC partial rights to it which SF acquired with thier buyout of Elite XC. Smart move, so they have that footage.
Its only a matter of time before Dana acknowledges the fact that strikeforce is building momentum and throws a few free fight nights in to disrupt their success.
Hopefully Strikeforce can build on their success, and hopefully a few more stars will be born (Bigfoot, Sergei etc..) which will be able to help Strikeforce sustain their momentum
I wouldn’t be surprised if a counter-programming for the Overeem/ Werdum fight is free on Spike. That, or they put on all the Best of Pride programs the fights that Reem lost, and on the unleashed play Werdum’s KO loss over and over
by Austin Martin on Feb 15, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
He wont counter with a live free card, no need.
SF doing a million viewers on Showtime is nothing to the UFC.
UFC just did double that for a two fight prelim special.
UFc is doing millions of PPV buys a year, if Sf gets on PPV and does well then Dana will counter them, and its unlikely SF will ever do well on PPV.
If anything in April you could see UFC 126 replayed on Spike, thats about it as far as counter programming goes.
Keep an eye out for counter programming the rest of this tourney
Dana will not let them succeed.
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by Hitmonchan on Feb 15, 2011 4:16 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
This is actually a tremendous point. I didn’t even think about that.
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If the UFC counter programs this tournament I guarantee CBS will will counter program a UFC PPV. CBS/SHO may have a sense of humour around some of their other shows but they will lose it fast if the UFC screws with this tournament.
I can't see that being the case at all
What’s the point of counter programming the UFC? If you’re a company that is much smaller and non-competitive, you need all the ratings you can get. All counter programming them would do is make them have a show with shitty ratings, AND anger the beast that is the UFC. CBS won’t play a cat and mouse game with the UFC, they want maximum eyes on anything they put out. Counter programming would be an absolutely terrible business move. That’s like a smaller retail store saying I’m gonna move across the street from a Walmart, cuz they sassed me one time.
Because they can’t be seen to having their teeth kicked in by a puny little company like Zuffa. If they were to roll over and fold then every one would be coming after them.
Who would see it like that?
Nobody. UFC counter programing Strikeforce wouldn’t make anyone thinks CBS was somehow getting attacked.
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by Chris Barton on Feb 15, 2011 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
Dana White specifically said...
…that his war was with the network Showtime, not Strikeforce. Basically attacking Showtime is attacking CBS. This is something that they want, so I can see the big execs up there starting to fire back if the UFC thinks that they can take them on. The major reason that SF has been able to be profitable (most media outlets are saying that they are making money and I’m not talking about that revenue article) is bc Showtime is handling alot of the costs on their own dime. Do you think that Showtime/CBS would go through that trouble if they were just going to let a smaller company like the UFC take them down?
Who is coming after them?
They are the clear number 2 promotion. Counter programming someone who makes a third of your 2010 revenue in one fights gate is no way to run a business. It would be beyond foolish, and network execs would never consider it.
CBS
doesn’t give a shit about MMA.
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by Chris Barton on Feb 15, 2011 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
No but they do care about Showtime. If Zuffa counter programs SF and makes Showtime drop them then what is to stop them from counter programming a boxing event?
Would you knock it off with the hypotheticals? ZUFFA would have zero reason to go after a boxing event.
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by Chris Barton on Feb 15, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
There is a lot less cross over between boxing and MMA fans than you seem to think.
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by Richard Wade on Feb 15, 2011 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
At some point Zuffa is going to have to stop picking fights with smaller organizations, sack up and go after some other sports if they want to keep growing.
LOL
Why?
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by Chris Barton on Feb 15, 2011 10:18 PM EST up reply actions
Not a 100% true. Showtime and the CBS corporation seem to have fallen in love with combat sports. Boxing more so than MMA but we’ll see what transpires with the tournament.
I disagree
They are happy if they think they can make money. Right now, it would appear, Showtime is. If the Grand Prix keeps going good CBS will probably want to cash in too. It’s not for a love of combat sports, it’s a love for money.
If the UFC can somehow take the wind out of the money sail, CBS won’t care enough to try to counter program. There is no fucking way.
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"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
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by Chris Barton on Feb 15, 2011 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
They spent 3 months in negotiations with M1 alone and are giving M1 4 shows. But they don’t care if Zuffa comes along and derails the whole thing. They will just fold up and go home? As if.
Not only that but they just stole away with the biggest boxing draw on earth. Along with the HW GP it’s pretty clear they are going after the same demographic that ZUFFA is after. They are going to allow Dana to just shit on Strikeforce.
What can they even do about it? They aren’t going to be willing to LOSE money trying to combat ZUFFA. It makes ZERO sense. Manny is a proven commodity. Boxing > MMA for them in the first place.
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"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
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by Chris Barton on Feb 15, 2011 6:34 PM EST up reply actions
And how is zuffa going to start drying up the strikeforce revenue? Do you remember the UFC planned to do this last year around april and Strikeforce left the April card open until last minute. Zuffa isnt capable of putting Strikeforce out of business anymore than Mcdonalds is capable of putting burger king out of business.
Ummmm
Where did I say they would? Seriously?
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"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
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by Chris Barton on Feb 15, 2011 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
I was going to respond
but then I realized that awful comparisons and stupid opinions just don’t merit responses sometimes
by Austin Martin on Feb 15, 2011 7:01 PM EST up reply actions
Because they thought M1 and Fedor could make them money. Without Fedor, that prospect isn’t nearly as good regardless of what ZUFFA does.
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"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on Feb 15, 2011 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
Funny u should say that.dont u think the fighters are gonna see this and say dam gate 11million and 600 thousand payper view buys.oh yeah total payroll of card 1 million and change.zuffa and dana r greedy bastards.pay the fighters.
They do get paid.
And UFC champs make a lot more than Strikeforce champs. Sponsors pay MORE for UFC cards and fighters get backroom bonuses for good performances and/or exceptional shows.
The difference in “sponsors” is not that signficant for 98% of fighters.
by Jonathan Snowden on Feb 15, 2011 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
And
nobody would watch the CBS show.
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"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
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by Chris Barton on Feb 15, 2011 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
What's the Point
Do you really think that the UFC will lose many buys to a free CBS show? CBS will have to spend millions in order to cost the UFC a couple hundred grand. I’m no genius, but that doesn’t sound like smart business. I hate to break it to you, but I’m not forgoing the next Anderson Silva fight to see Nick Diaz fight the 20th ranked welterweight on CBS.
Not to mention DVR would make it easy to watch both
Which doesn’t help CBS when everyone fast forwards their commercials because they didnt watch it live
Thing is if they do a show on CBS they’d have 1 million people tune in by accident. Lets be serious unless it’s a super stacked counter programming job more people are going to tune into a spectacle on network cable.
People will tune in and tune out
The demographic they’re after will most likely be watching the PPV. You’re not gonna get people looking for 2 and a half men to stay hooked for a daniel cormier fight
You didnt read the post by slimboslice?
check it out, its golden
by ODBasyoucansee on Feb 15, 2011 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not sure I'd use the March show as a benchmark
As we’ve seen from UFC PPV buys, good shows do good numbers, while less-appealing shows don’t. The question in my mind is not whether Strikeforce puts on the occasional low-rated show (which it surely will, March being a likely candidate) but whether it is able to increase, on balance, the ratio of anticipated, highly-rated shows that it puts on. That in turn will depend on the promotion being really aggressive about marketing the talent they have, and finding the talent that the UFC doesn’t get.
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Its possible but I dont know.
Honestly Sf isnt working with that much beyond the HW GP, and losing Fedor hurts them big time.
You have a few fights, Hendo/Feijao is ok, and Mousasi and Mo are in the mix after, MW is a mess, I guess Miller could get a shot, after him they have nothing.
Diaz vs Daley is the only big fight at WW and Gilbert vs Crusher at LW. After that what do you have for Diaz and Gilbert thats a big meaningful fight?
Gina, Walker, Batista, I mean does anyone really care about any of them?
the Reem/Werdum card should do well but the second round fights I dont think will be nearly as big.
Big foot vs Werdum isnt big, Reem vs Foot is solid, Barnett vs Sergei is ok, but if Werdum and Rogers win the next two fights that will kill the GP momentum.
Sf is gonna run out of big meaningful fights, thats the problem they will have.
Feijao beats Hendo and he beat Mo, all thats left is Mousasi, Jacare beats Miller then what? Diaz beats Daley then what? Gilbert beats Crusher then what?
After the HW GP is over then what? Thats the problem SF will have.
At this rate they should be able to get through most of the year but come the end of the year they will have run out of big fights.
I dont see Diaz/Woodley as a big fight or Jacare vs Rockhold as a big fight, or Gilbert vs Fancy Pants as a big fight or Feijao vs OSP as a big fight.
Yeah does anyone really care about them? I mean real hardcore mma fans?
I can deal with Gina coming back for a payday, and Walker, but if they sign Batista, oh man.
I’m not sure people care about Gina anymore, its been how long? She lost, she faded away, Walker if he still fights will draw interest, not sure about Batista though.
It’s not going to take much to get people to care about Carano again if they’ve forgotten about her. One look at her and BOOM, caring recommences.
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by Matt Bishop on Feb 15, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
6 to Midnight
And I agree. Name sells, pretty face+ DEFINITELY sells.
by Austin Martin on Feb 15, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah maybe, I dont know though, its been a while, I personally dont care about seeing her fight, never did, well thats not true, Gina vs Cyborg i was very interested in, and not just to look at Gina, I actually wanted to see that fight.
Now I dont really care to see her fight,
Heres the question, being gone that long and coming off a loss, what does that do? Before she was the top female mma fighter, now she lost, and has been gone forever. I dont know if people will care the way they used to.
Well. She has a big Hollywood movie coming out real soon, where she is the lead actress. I guess that could re-ignite and get some new interest as well. But from a pure sporting perspective, she’s not going to be as interesting as before Cyborg loss and long lay-off. To be honest it was always most about her looks though, and those are still killer.
by Horselover Fat on Feb 15, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
What movie is that? I heard something I dont know the name, is it a real movie in theaters or a straight to DVD movie?
She’s the lead? Can she act?
It’s going to the big screen. Can she act? I don’t know. But she is the lead, yes. Steven Soderbergh is directing, it has a bunch of other well known actors in it as well. IMDB
by Horselover Fat on Feb 16, 2011 7:58 AM EST up reply actions
It's going big screen...
…names like Soderberg and Banderos don’t all sign on for straight to DVD shit.
I care about seeing her, just not in the cage
Much rather watch a pretty woman in a movie than watch her getting punched in the face. Considering how Cyborg demolished her, does she have a real shot to make a run at her, especially with the layoff?
either way
She is still a FILF
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by the-gentle-way on Feb 15, 2011 7:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Honestly Sf isnt working with that much beyond the HW GP, and losing Fedor hurts them big time.
Somewhat true. The HW tourney is the biggest buzz they’d had in a good while. It’s set up in a possibly anti-climactic way though, by awarding the winner a title shot, but having the champion participate the same tourney. Should Overeem run roughshod over everybody…then what?
You have a few fights, Hendo/Feijao is ok, and Mousasi and Mo are in the mix after, MW is a mess, I guess Miller could get a shot, after him they have nothing.
Diaz vs Daley is the only big fight at WW and Gilbert vs Crusher at LW. After that what do you have for Diaz and Gilbert thats a big meaningful fight?
The HW division is really SF’s biggest gun right now. IMO, a lot of the value of acquiring Hendo was lost in his defeat by Shields. At least Diaz has Daley on the horizon (provided he doesn’t lose to Shirai) but the fight people really want to see Gilbert take if he’s not going to be in the UFC is Alvarez, and I doubt that’s anywhere on the horizon.
Gina, Walker, Batista, I mean does anyone really care about any of them?
People care, but ultimately, Walker, Batista, and even Gina to a lesser degree are freak show attractions. The big money bout for Batista was Lashley, but who knows what’s going on there anymore. Gina can probably still pull some ratings, more longterm than either Walker or Batista IMO, but who’s she gonna fight? I doubt they really wanna have Cyborg mash her up again.
Sf is gonna run out of big meaningful fights, thats the problem they will have.
My question is will SF be able to really build any stars? Because that would be a big contribution towards solving that problem you put forth IMO. If Werdum and/or Bigfoot come out of the tourney relatively unscathed, can they build off of their victories over Fedor? How many stars or notable attractions has SF really developed? Gil? Maybe Mo if Cavalcante hadn’t derailed him? They essentially inherited Nick and Gina from EliteXC, and his freakish genetics notwithstanding, whatever contributions Walker brings to the table will be limited by his age and current skill level.
I love the tourny format
but the 1st round of fights left a lot to be desired. The top 2 fan favorites lost and the brackets were stacked in Fedors favor. This is a mess, if Uber win the whole thing I see him bailing for a HUGE payday.
Diaz is key for Strikeforce, they need to ride his jock til he is used up. The kid comes to fight every single night and always puts on a show. They need to push and push Diaz, this will be the key to their success, not the sloppy fights we just watched.
It’s clear now that the Strikeforce brand itself is getting over with fans. According to conventional wisdom repeated ad nauseum by some MMA pundits, they’ve done the impossible.
You know, I’m not so sure that Strikeforce is getting over, although I have heard the name brought up in some dealings with normal folk recently here, which I was absolutely surprised by. I don’t think it’s completely over but it’s certainly getting there.
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I don’t mean in terms of mainstream awareness necessarily. But in terms of people who are current or potential Showtime subscribers, or consumers of MMA in general, they’re red hot. The action in the last few events has been very satisfying, and you’re lefting wanting more each time out. That is a recipe for TV ratings growth.
by smoogy2 on Feb 15, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Now if they could just air their shows live.
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by Richard Wade on Feb 15, 2011 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
I've noticed this too...
…for years I’ve had a coworker who was a bit of a casual fan, had Showtime and watched the fights bc they were free but he only recently began actually using the name Strikeforce. I was also surprised by this. I’ve had a few other coworkers bring it up too.
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by Derek Suboticki on Feb 15, 2011 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
Stunts.
That’s what Strikeforce needs. Build on them, and then make them a mainstay: Walker, Carano, Lashley, Bautista, the likes.
Also, More GPs after a while would sit well with people—one every two years would be good (assuming they’re still around after two years).
But all that is useless if their roster doesn’t deepen. Let’s hope it does. Maybe then, in the future, we’ll see a solidified Strikeforce holding a good grip on the number 2 spot as the alternative in MMA to the UFC. Whether they can grow from there, who knows—never to UFC levels though, or at least not for the foreseeable future.
Thats the key, the roster, they dont have the roster, they have one fight left at LW and WW that anyone cares about, one fight left at MW, a few at LHW and after the GP they dont have much, they have to really start pushing the prospects they have and hope they become stars or they can sign a few guys away from the UFC.
More GP, i dont think SF can do another GP that would garner this interest, this was interesting cause it had Fedor, Reem, Werdum and Barnett and you could finally get to see these guys fight since Sf could never get the fights out of them, So a Fedor/Reem fight was possible, thats what got fans juiced.
Maybe LHW they could do a decent GP but I dont think it would get the same kind of attention.
They certainly have the players for an 8 man lw tourney especially if coker and bellator could could come to terms. But even without them.
Gil, Punk, Fancy Pants, Shaolin, Noons, Masvidal, JZ, Gurgel, and possibly Aoki
Sounds solid in my book
possible FAs: Davis, McCullough, Varner
by Austin Martin on Feb 15, 2011 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
Razor rob is with Bellator.
And if they did a GP it would be
Gilbert, Crusher, Aoki, Punk, Noons, JZ, Fancy Pants, Billy E/Wilcox.
Masvidal, Gurgel and Shaolin? come on man.
that would be ok, I just dont think it would be nearly as big, if Gilbert beats Crusher thats Aoki, Crusher and Punk he has beaten,
I think LHW would be the better option.
Gil had far from a convincing win over Crusher and is 1-1 with Punk and the last fight was FOTY caliber.There is nothing preventing them from being big and meanginful fights. And whats wrong with Masvidal? He’s shown he belongs in there with his performance against Daley. You forget that most of these HW in the strikeforce tournament already fought prior and it’s rolling along.
Coker already said he is doing the HW GP again next year. I think it will be like the K1 tournament. You lose Arlovski and possibly Fedor this year. But next year you add in Cormier and SDR who are getting exposure via the tournament this year. Saki is coming this summer and might fight HW. If he has really been working his ground game that will get peoples attention.
If they can get Eddie Alvarez to sign onto a partial contract w/ SF...
Then doing a LW tournament with, JZ, Josh Thompson, KJ Noons, Kawajiri, Aok, Billy Evangelista, and Jorge Masvidal might not be such a bad idea. Throw in Toby Imada if you can swing it.
About the roster
They seem to be doing a good job at developing their prospects for audiences to digest like del Rosario, Woodley, Daley (?), King Mo, Mousasi, Feijao, Silva, etc. And by prospects I mean recognizable faces. They just need to keep doing what they are doing but better. In any way, they’re in better shape than the UFC was circa TUF1, I think.
If they keep their heads down and keep growing steadily they’ll make a good go at it, I think. I certainly hope so b/c I like me some Strikeforce, whacky announcing and all.
by Unabomberman on Feb 15, 2011 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
A few questions that I hope someone could answer
How much is Strikeforce advertised on Showtime?
Has there been an increase in advertising for it recently?
I’ll be interested to see if Showtime advertises them on the Pacquiao PPV.
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They certainly have the potential
Their heavyweight roster is enough to keep the attention of the mma community. This tournament opens up alot of potential match ups later on. Heavywieghts draw the most attention from the general audience right? I want them to do well, and as long as they keep putting on cards, they should do well. But who knows, a failed drug test and a string of injuries could quickly kill the hype that they have built.
by Scribonius Curio on Feb 15, 2011 4:44 PM EST reply actions
Strikeforce is starting to get the very important little things right.
Except that HUGE mistake they made by letting Gus sugarlips Johnson back on. UGH!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
I'm sure thats Showtime though
Strikeforce and Coker know damn well the hardcores prefer Mauro, Patt and Frank.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Feb 15, 2011 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
Mauro and Frank were every bit as bad as Gus on Saturday night. It was without question the worst commentary I have ever heard from a major show. Mauro used to seem cool back in Pride, but is getting worse by the show, and Frank is terrible. Frank is like Joe Rogan’s less cool cousin when it comes to commentary.
Gus is a good announcer for football, but he is so fucking clueless that he is painful to listen to when it comes to fighting. Gus Johnson makes Mike Goldberg sound informed!
To announce football you have to memorize over 100 names...
…at least thast what Karahov the Russian told me.
Yeahhhhh
That was pretty bad, but everyone has brain farts. At least he didn’t say it was a seizure.
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shbitvh offft canwama ta shibbibly.
Sorry I stroked out.
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by the-gentle-way on Feb 15, 2011 7:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Gus Johnson is difficult to tolerate no matter what sport he's calling.
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by Richard Wade on Feb 15, 2011 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder if they tank on PPV in the second round of the tourney, and it sets them back a little. I’d rather they stick to TV and build more of a fanbase before going on PPV. I think they’re biting off more than they can chew.
Hardcore MMA fan since UFC 99
Imagine The Card
Even if Overeem does the expected and disposes of Silva, look at the second round PPV. How many PPV’s do you honestly think they will sell if you have Overeem/Werdum vs Silva, Barnett/Kharitonov and any other fights. I think anything over 100k is unlikely, but I really doubt Showtime/Strikeforce/M-1 are wanting into PPV to sell 100k.
But the thing is, they will absolutely stack their first PPV card with Hendo, probably Mayhem, and at least one of Jacare/Diaz/Melendez.
Overeem/Silva
Hendo/Feijao
Mayhem/Kennedy
Diaz/Daley/ or Melendez/anyone
is an absolutely stacked card, but I still question how it’d do on PPV. I just can’t predict it breaking 150,000 and definitely not 200,000 at a $45/$55HD pricing scheme. And I don’t see how that’d be profitable or beneficial for their popularity. Its not like taking a PPV hit now helps build for the future. It’s less eyeballs and less popularity. 200,000 PPV buys seems like it’d be worse than another million+ on Showtime or 5 mil on CBS. Anyone have an thoughts or rebuttals to this?
Hardcore MMA fan since UFC 99
It depend on how the contract is written. If the fee SF gets from SHO is a flat fee on a PPV then Coker wont care if the show does well or not. If it is a cut of the action he will. If it is a blend depends on the blend.
The UFC gives away some thing like 40% of their PPV money to the PPV provider. One of the reasons that they like the internet so much. SHO is the PPV provider if SF does a show. So they can make money on fewer buys than the UFC can. But you are correct if the finals do horrible on PPV and they funnel talent off of the Showtime channel then ya there are going to be some uppity fans and there deserves to be.
The sense I am getting is that SF is getting stampeded into doing a PPV by SHO who is desperate to get their PPV machine reved up again after being near comatose for so long.
An interesting question is going to be how do the opening rounds do on PPV in the countries like the UK and Australia. No one expects good numbers from those markets but they will be keeping their eyes on those numbers to see. If they are pleasantly surprised then PPV is more likely.
Future Shows
Saturday night was the first time I can recall watching a Strikeforce show where they thoroughly promoted more than just future boxing cards. In much the same fashion as the UFC, they did a good job of promoting future cards. As hard as the commentators blew camel dick Saturday, they did a good job of sticking to the script and getting people interested in Strikeforce.
It’s one of the few times that they had an idea of who would actually be on the next card which allowed them to do that.
by Rob Young on Feb 16, 2011 6:04 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yes. They can certainly continue their growth.
Will every event draw like this? No. But, they have many high profile fights to come and they are gaining more and more fans as each month goes by. The best thing that has happened to Strikeforce, along with the GP, is their activity. They have come out swinging in 2011 and I don’t see it slowing down. I also don’t see SHO slowing down either. With the Pac Man in their stable they are making a huge play to be the sports leader in premium cable.All of those things combined says Strikeforce is not only here to stay but here to succeed.
This is one thing I like
They have finally started promoted shows on a consistent basis. That’s what’s going to keep fans attention and help them grow more than anything. It’s hard to build any sort of momentum when we have to wait months between shows.
Actually… I think that could hurt the Grand Prix still, having to wait so long for it to play out. We shall see.
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by Chris Barton on Feb 15, 2011 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
Keep them Cheap
I think the worst thing for them will be charging $40 for a PPV. Right now, they have carved out a good niche in the market where people are willing to pay to watch, but it’s not expensive enough that people are lost to price. For the cost of 2 UFC’s I can watch Strikeforce all year, but there are no fights in Strikeforce right now that make me think about skipping a UFC and buying the Strikeforce PPV.
Yea
I think moving to PPV is a losing proposition. Much like WEC, it’s very hard to get people to pay a premium price for a product they are used to getting for a bargain.
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by Chris Barton on Feb 15, 2011 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
I think there are plenty of interesting fights between the GP. I can’t wait to see Feijao vs Hendo and Daley vs Diaz. It’s going to be a breakout year for them.
Oh, there are!
I didn’t mean to imply otherwise. It’s just that excitement for the GP exceeds anything else they are doing and I’d hate to see the excitement fizzle because it’s taking to long to materialize.
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"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
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by Chris Barton on Feb 15, 2011 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
This just in
CBS College Sports Network to Rebrand as CBS Sports Network
Network Broadens Reach to Serve More Fans
http://www.themwc.com/genrel/021511aaa.html
What if Coker could convince them to put some SF on there?
“CBS Buys a Blimp”
Advertising space for Strikeforce?
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by Derek Suboticki on Feb 15, 2011 6:05 PM EST up reply actions
This is a real network that exists today, under the supervision of the same guy who decides whether Strikeforce is on CBS or not. In other words, infinitely more practical a possibility than the NBC Sports channel that may exist in the future possibly wanting to make UFC part of their theoretical programming schedule.
Hopefully you’ll notice that I haven’t had a peep to say about the Comcast deal. I’ll believe the UFC is on network TV when I see it. I don’t treat it as the Holy Grail of MMA programming. Setting PPV records every year is way nicer.
Luke: What was our best moment?
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by Derek Suboticki on Feb 15, 2011 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
It’s an interesting case because I think network TV is more trouble than its worth for the UFC considering their PPV business, but for Strikeforce, it’s the exact opposite. I think they need network TV.
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Agree 100%
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"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on Feb 15, 2011 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
I see the Pacquiao-Mosley experiment having major ramifications on the circumstances of network TV for both promotions. If boxing can use the combination of Showtime and CBS successfully as a platform to maximize PPVs buys, then the blueprint is set, with Strikeforce potentially having an opportunity to adapt the model for MMA on the same network. Meanwhile, UFC would have to seriously consider the same approach to bolster their PPV successes and adapt to what would be a transformed PPV marketplace. Of course, if Pac-Mosley doesn’t meet their expectations, then it becomes another in a line of mostly inconsequential attempts to put fight sport on network TV in recent years, and wouldn’t bode well for the future of either MMA brand in that space.
The problem is, almost next to no one has that channel, IIRC. I don’t have it. I wish I did, as a sports fan. Right now, that isn’t going to do them much good until they get better clearance.
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With the additional Cablevision subscribers, CBS College Sports Network is now seen in approximately 38 million and is available to more than 89 million households across the country. In the last 12 months, the Network has experienced a +38% distribution increase, representing 10.4 million additional subscribers.
It isn’t massive but the upside is that it has traditionally used relatively cheap programming. That would make it ideal for the challengers shows for example. A problem that SF is running into is that SHO is maxing out on sports programming. Coker said yesterday that he can’t run a big show in May because of all the boxing going on. If Coker can move the challengers shows here or his prelims that would be a big plus for SF.
SF has the potential for a quad play now, network, cable, premium and PPV. Exactly what the CBS empires plans are is yet to be seen. I have to wonder if this is where the SF syndicated show is going to run? Questions, questions.
Why hasnt Strikeforce moved some challengers to hdnet. With DREAM gone or on hiatus they could use mma programming.
There’d be less eyeballs on those shows on HDNet than Showtime, I think.
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Agree with the above...
…I imagine that Showtime pays alot more than HDNet even if there would be more eyes on HDNet, which there aren’t.
Fans
I am curious as to who’s watching Strikeforce. It would make a big difference on the effect of counter programming as well the likelihood of PPV success. If they are getting people who stayed home on Saturday night and happened to catch a fight as opposed to people like me who subscribe to Showtime only for Strikeforce, it could make a huge difference to the value of ratings. That being said, I’m only paying $8/month for Showtime as opposed to $50 for the UFC, so even if they are all unique viewers, it takes a lot to break even.
I have to think
more and more casual fans are either become more hardcore OR are just jonesing for fights and found a nice, cheap, and easily accessible alternative for when the UFC isn’t on.
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"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
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by Chris Barton on Feb 15, 2011 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
Strikeforce needs to continue etching it's own identity as it has in the recent past
The tournament, and faces that have not been seen in the UFC (Lawal, Feijao, Overeem, Melendez, Jacare) are all important pieces of that. If they continue building an image that’s a little different than the UFC, they will eventually cultivate more of an audience. It just takes time…and a lot of money and patience.
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they have the superior BJJ players for the most part.
I really love me some top notch submissions.
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Feb 15, 2011 7:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Absolutely agree w/ that statement.
These guys could be house hold names, for the most part. They all seem to be marketable, one way or the other.
My favorite K1 fighter:
Yuta Kubo the best 70kg striker in the world.
by Untitled_Artistry on Feb 15, 2011 7:17 PM EST up reply actions
One thing to be said for Strikeforce's roster
They have a diverse range of fighters in their upper tier with distinctive, recognisable styles and, if you like, ‘in-ring’ personas…
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and so gavest away thy sword:
but when Muspell's sons through the dark forest ride,
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About the March 5 show in Columbus, Ohio featuring a Rafael Cavalcante light-heavyweight title defense against Dan Henderson: what ratings are expected for this show to be seen as building momentum? Does it have to match the Fedor vs Silva card, surpass it, or something else?
I won't jump off the bandwagon just because you lost.
I’d be shocked if they were able to crack 400K viewers. This is the weakest card SF has come out with recently. The big thing is the gate though. SF planned it to coincide with a huge Sports Festival in Ohio so we’ll see. Feijao and Manhoef on this card so that guarantees some fireworks for the fans.
400K for the Columbus show would be nice considering the wide fluctuations in their ratings. If the Columbus show can get 500K or more, then Showtime/Strikeforce may be on to something. If Strikeforce shows would just eene start to average 500K, that would ooking TBA, is partly why more fans are tuning in – not to mention the higher calibur, more relavant bookings. The fact that Herschel and the return of Fedor/start of the HW tourney boosted ratings of the last two shows, this will be a good indication if they are cultivating a fan base or not. Then again, what the hell do I know? s
I think it has to be higher than the numbers those two did individually in their last fights. Anything upward. It’s obviously not going to do as well as the last two cards considering those had Herschel Walker and Fedor on them, but it needs to do better than their last fights, IMO.
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