Rampage vs Hamill: A Rare UFC Matchmaking Misfire
by Jonathan Snowden on Feb 15, 2011 11:07 AM EST
in UFC Editorial
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Quinton "Rampage" Jackson is one of the light heavyweight division's biggest attractions. He's been a name in this sport since stepping in on short notice at Pride 15 to do battle with Kazushi Sakuraba, at the time the best in the business. With his trademark chain and piercing howl, Jackson was a sensation in Japan. His spirited loss to Sakuraba was a star turn, his passion and raw talent shining through despite a submission defeat.
From there it was onward and upward. He worked his way to the very top, upsetting former UFC champion Kevin Randleman, UFC stalwart Chuck Liddell, and along the way earning two matches with the great Wanderlei Silva. After jumping to the UFC in 2007, Jackson ended the Iceman's competitive career in the cage, unified the UFC and Pride titles, settled the score with Silva, and drew more than a million buys with arch rival Rashad Evans at UFC 114.
After beating former champion Lyoto Machida in November, Jackson seemed well on his way to another high profile, big money match in a division that is suddenly lacking in star power. Instead, he's facing Matt Hamill in an inconsequential bout at UFC 130.
Matt Hamill?
The UFC's first and only Deaflympics Gold medalist, Hamill is a fine fighter. He's done well with middle of the road competition in the UFC's stacked light heavyweight division. But Hamill is no world beater. Every time he's stepped up in class, he's been sent scurrying in defeat. He lost to Michael Bisping, a blown up middleweight, in England. He was overwhelmed by Rich Franklin, another undersized light heavyweight, in Atlanta in 2008. Although technically a win, he was so badly outgunned by Jon Jones that there was legitimate fear for his safety and well being.
So what in the world is a guy like this doing in the cage with a man who could very well be the next challenger for light heavyweight gold? Hamill is ranked 17th in our USA Today/SBNation Consensus Rankings. There are nine UFC fighters between him and Jackson in the rankings. For Hamill, it's the opportunity of a lifetime. But for Jackson and the UFC, it's a nightmare waiting to happen.
More on a rare UFC matchmaking misfire after the break
Make no mistake - this is MMA and Hamill is certainly a live dog. Rampage could slip, come in injured, not take Hamill seriously, get caught with a glancing blow, be distracted by a movie offer, or just plain get beat. As the incomparable Gus Johnson once said, "These things happen in mixed martial arts."
That's what makes this matchup so ill advised. There's money and marque matchups with Jackson. The originally announced rematch with Evans would light up the box office, lending serious support to a Frankie Edgar-Gray Maynard main event that failed to capture hearts and minds in January. A bout with the winner of the Mauricio Rua-Jon Jones title fight would also be a great main event anywhere in the world. Why throw these potential fights away in a risky match with Hamill?
The UFC is always walking a fine line between sports and entertainment. This is one of those times they've failed to meet the standard in either area. As entertainment, it lacks fire and a compelling storyline. It's a fight I've literally never seen anyone suggest in a fit of frenzied fantasy matchmaking. In short, it's a fight no one has demanded and it's been met with a collective yawn by even the most devoted UFC fans.
As sport, it also doesn't make much sense. Hamill hasn't shown he deserves a match with the third best light heavyweight in the world. Franklin out fought him and Jones obliterated him. What gives him the right to play spoiler here?
Something must be happening behind the scenes to scuttle the Evans-Jackson rematch. Is this a message being fired across the bow of Team Greg Jackson and Evans? Perhaps the former champion is being punished, denied a lucrative match with Jackson, for refusing to fight while awaiting a title shot at Rua?
What else could explain this perplexing bout? It's a horrible, uninspired, and irrelevant match. We expect more from the UFC and Joe Silva because they've trained us to expect more. Silva is the best matchmaker in the history of the sport. He's done an almost flawless job building the UFC into the monolith we all know and love. When the UFC makes matches, there's always a plan no matter which fighter wins. It's almost always a win/win scenario. Not so here. In the last five years, they've consistently booked fights that made sense or made money. This one does neither.
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I agree I dont really love this fight but I dont think its a bad fight at all.
Who else? Rashad is hurt, would he be ready in time? Second, does the UFC really want to make that rematch this soon?
third and most important dont you think if they did a Rashad/Page rematch it would headline the card not be a co main event?
So who else? Bader just lost, Franklin lost, FOrrest which was probably the first option is hurt.
Tito, Nogs, Randy, Machida, Jones and Shogun all have fights. I dont see who else is there.
Hamil won 5 in a row, yes we all saw the Jones fight, but he beat Tito and Jardine, I agree he is a top 20 :LHW, in the 10 to 20 range, is def a fighter who can win this fight with his wrestling, I dont think he will win though.
But considering the other options I think this is a solid fight for a co main event on an already very stacked card.
Rashad/Page wouldnt be co main event material, and its a bit to soon for the rematch.
Rich or Bader I think would be bigger names but they are coming off a loss, while Hamill has won 5 in a row.
You don’t decide what to do with your big draw top contender based on Matt Hamill needing a fight. That’s laughable.
by Jonathan Snowden on Feb 15, 2011 10:42 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
A) WHat does that have to do with anything? and B) Jardine was ranked higher than Hamill and much more popular.
Hey UFC4 go fuck yourself, how about that? Fucking punk, I was just asking for the source that says lesnar gets 5 mill a fight, it’s obvious one does not exist. Bunch of gabronis on a site pulling figures out of your ass.
by Garrett Bennicas
I don’t know about more popular, but at the time Quinton fought Jardine, Jardine was 2-2 in his last 4 and coming off a razor thin decision over Vera. Jardine’s last loss (KO to Wand) was Quinton’s previous fight and win (KO over Wand).
I’d say the situation is very similar, only Hamill has a better chance to win. Rampage doesn’t operate well off of his back.
It’s not similar, Jardine was always a fan favorite and much more of a name than Hamill probably will ever be. That makes it a much more high profile bout than this one.
Hey UFC4 go fuck yourself, how about that? Fucking punk, I was just asking for the source that says lesnar gets 5 mill a fight, it’s obvious one does not exist. Bunch of gabronis on a site pulling figures out of your ass.
by Garrett Bennicas
Jardine is more of a fan favorite than Hamill?
I was not aware of that, I like this fight myself. Hamill had been promised top ten talent and now it’s sink or swim. And a lot of people thought he lost that fight to Machida, and while I liked the Thiago Silva fight more a Rashad/Rampage II does little for me at this point.
This fight for the fish is a fight to the death!
by doonerthesooner on Feb 15, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The “A lot of people think he lost that fight” argument means absolutely nothing when discussing this topic. The fact is he got the W and that’s all that matters.
Hey UFC4 go fuck yourself, how about that? Fucking punk, I was just asking for the source that says lesnar gets 5 mill a fight, it’s obvious one does not exist. Bunch of gabronis on a site pulling figures out of your ass.
by Garrett Bennicas
So Hamill beat Jon Jones, and Jones is getting the title shot sounds like bullshit.
This fight for the fish is a fight to the death!
by doonerthesooner on Feb 15, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
A lot of people thought Jardine beat Hamill as well.
And just so you know, yes, Jardine was much more of a fan favorite than Hamill. Probably still is.
lol, what? Keith Jardine beat Forrest Griffin, Brandon Vera, and Chuck Liddell. As far as his value as a fighter, it was far higher than Hammill’s at this point. He beat top light heavyweights.
by VirtualBalboa on Feb 15, 2011 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
Exactly. Jardine had a big fanbase and a much better resume than Hamill.
Hey UFC4 go fuck yourself, how about that? Fucking punk, I was just asking for the source that says lesnar gets 5 mill a fight, it’s obvious one does not exist. Bunch of gabronis on a site pulling figures out of your ass.
by Garrett Bennicas
First off, Rampage was PAID to lose to Sakuraba...
PRIDE said that they would pay Rampage more money if he lost to Sakuraba.
Matt Hamill hasnt faced many upper echelon fighters…
I think he will do well.
Nick Diaz does not like wrestlers just like Rock doesnt like Paper!
I knew someone was going to bring up that story. And the evidence that Rampage actually did throw the fight is…?
Rampage said he didn’t throw the fight. But, they wanted him to lose by RNC and then he did. Make your own conclussions.
Huh? When did I say that, I said he Page needs a fight, they need to keep him on this card, what other options?
Rashad/Page just happened and that would be a main event fight not co main event.
They need him on this card and they have no other options.
Think of it this way...
Hamill was at minimum their fourth choice to fight Rampage.
Thiago Silva was an awesome, relevant fight.
Shogun was an awesome, relevant and huge fight.
Evans was a less exciting, but very big and very relevant fight.
Hamill is not an awesome fight, not a relevant fight and not a big fight
Comparatively it is very poor and an obvious misfire.
If we're using a "shooting" analogy...
Misfire is a bit misleading… its more like throwing your gun at someone when you run out of bullets.
Getting bent out of shape over a fight promoter lying is like getting upset that a hooker won't kiss you. It betrays a deep lack of understanding of the nature of the profession.
by Stanlee on Feb 15, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I hate to admit it,
But you’re right, this doesn’t make sense unless Jakson is looking to build more momentum very strange.
Christ they should let you edit posts here.
Meant to say I thought the decision was wrong.
Also agree with article, massive step down from Machida.
Editing can lead to too much mischief. Write something offensive, get everyone angry, then edit it so it’s benign, and everyone else looks bad.
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 15, 2011 12:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Right
or even the redo strike-through feature for editing…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 15, 2011 9:15 PM EST up reply actions
Hamill/Bisping
To be fair, most people (myself included) felt Hamill beat Bisping in that fight handily.
Maybe the UFC wants Rampage to have a solid win under him before moving up? His last performances have been fairly underwhelming. This also lets Hamill try to build the momentum from his latest performances with someone he matches up well with.
by EvilScott on Feb 15, 2011 10:39 AM EST reply actions 6 recs
Hamill beat Bisping
Not handily though.
The best part was the only Brit judge scored it for Hamill.
Fire Gus "What's a screen?" Bradley.
by SSreporters on Feb 15, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
Underwhelming?
He won against Machida. How many people expected that?
To save me some time on 25% of all threads, here's the universal answer to the Fedor-debate: Fedor is the most accomplished MMA fighter ever. That is a fact. If he still is the best fighter at this point in time is up for debate.
He won, but it wasn’t exactly of fight of the night candidate. Underwhelming is the correct word.
I’m sure they would love to catapult Rampage back into title contention with a big KO – the fact is his last 3 fights have been decisions, and then 2 more before the Wand KO.
If he even attemtped that
Say hello to Machida vs Rua/Jones.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
You’re saying he intentionally fought conservatively to avoid getting caught by Machida?
Your bias is showing sir.
Jackson hasn’t been the KO artist of old in some time. In fact, his only 3 stoppages in the UFC were against:
Marvin Eastman who had 5 UFC performances, 4 of which ended in him getting knocked out. His only victory was an epic hugging contest with Terry Martin at UFC 81.
Wanderlei Silva who honestly hasn’t been the same since the second Crocop fight and is 2-3 in the UFC with his only wins coming against Jardine and Bisping.
Chuck Liddell at the beginning of his slide into forced retirement.
There’s a middle ground between “underwhelming” and “spectacular”. The Machida fight resides there.
To save me some time on 25% of all threads, here's the universal answer to the Fedor-debate: Fedor is the most accomplished MMA fighter ever. That is a fact. If he still is the best fighter at this point in time is up for debate.
I have watched that fight probably 20 times and score it for Bisping almost every time with the other times as a draw. The first round is clearly Hamill’s, the third is clearly Bisping, the second is very close.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 15, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Yea
I never understood the outrage about that fight. I guess it’s because people really dislike Bisping. I scored it for Hamill the first time I watched it, but it’s all about how you score that second round.
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on Feb 15, 2011 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
You watched the Bisping/Hamill fight 20 times?
Really? I have to open the windows – the stench of BS is too much.
To add to this article, its also an uninteresting fight.
Thank you UFC fans. My name Stun Gun. I want GSP
by crinow on Feb 15, 2011 10:41 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I'll buy it...
This fight does suck and Hamill has zero personality, so even if he wins it won’t put him over.
I don’t care about the loss of the Evans matchup. I don’t like Evans and I didn’t enjoy the first fight. That said, I am very sad to the T Silva match up go out the window. Maybe that somehow gets put back together.
So I think its about keeping Page on the card, sure they could have taken him off and made a fight vs Forrest or Rashad in June, July, but they wanted to keep Page on the card since Edgar/Mayanard isnt a mega selling fight.
Even with the last fight being great it still wouldnt be a huge selling card, but having Rampage, Mir vs Nelson, Santiago vs Stann, if that ends up happening, Torres/Pickett, thats a very good card with some big names.
I wonder if Alves/Story is on the card, whats this rumor about him possibly failing a drug test from his last fight?
But Struve/Browne is on the card as well.
Edgar/Maynard
Page/Hamill
Mir/Nelson
Stann/Santiago
Torres/Pickett
Struve/Browne
and maybe Alves/Story, thats a hell of a card, Torres/Pickett and Struve/Browne as the Spike prelim fights would be a great card.
So this is just about keeping Page on the card.
I wonder if Alves/Story is on the card, whats this rumor about him possibly failing a drug test from his last fight?
Which guy and what rumor?
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 15, 2011 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
Alves, rumblings about Alves fight vs Vera, that his test hasnt come back or some shit, its a rumor but I believe someone said the Alves/Story fight was taken off the UFC site for 130, so if thats true and that fight isnt on the card, and if Santiago doesnt sign, which he probably will but they said its not a done deal, and you took page off this card your not left with very much.
I had not heard anything about
Thiago Alves potentially failing…where did you hear that?
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 15, 2011 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
It was on the front page before Fedor got beat. It was about Silva, but they also said that Alves’s test was being held for further testing.
If you can't wow them with brilliance, then baffle them with bullshit.
Maybe just someone getting his Thiagos mixed up?
To save me some time on 25% of all threads, here's the universal answer to the Fedor-debate: Fedor is the most accomplished MMA fighter ever. That is a fact. If he still is the best fighter at this point in time is up for debate.
by KGNLuc on Feb 15, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Might want to update your sig.
Think the debate is over.
BJJ > Sambo
by lowellthehammer on Feb 15, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t know. I tried to find the article, but I couldn’t. Maybe it was a rumor and got taken down?
If you can't wow them with brilliance, then baffle them with bullshit.
it was really someone getting their thiagos mixed up, I have the link to the article and my explanation of what i think happened below.
It would be nice if newspapers/magazines/websites had some method of informing the public of their mistakes and correcting them.
I think you are thinking of Thiago Silva,
who just fought Vera. Thiago Alves is a WW…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 15, 2011 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
Thiago Alves drug test?
Damn Thiago Alves AND Thiago Silva with drug test issues? I hope Paulo Thiago isn’t in this too.
Fire Gus "What's a screen?" Bradley.
by SSreporters on Feb 15, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
I'm joking
Although I can’t discount Thiago Tavares either….
Fire Gus "What's a screen?" Bradley.
by SSreporters on Feb 15, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
I know you are joking, but there was an article floating around the forums saying that silva AND thiago were having issues and pulled from UFC 130. And knowing how the internet works, there is going to be a large portion of people thinking that Alves failed a drug test at UFC 124 so everytime it comes up, even joking, I must yell the truth.
Best thing you can do honestly.
Sucks that there’s no accountability for that kind of libel.
BJJ > Sambo
by lowellthehammer on Feb 15, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
I saw the FanPost yesterday
and pretty much discounted it until I saw confirmation from a more trustworthy source.
Conducting an experiment on knocking people out in particular ways would be unethical.
The rumor (and I guess it's not a rumor anymore) is Thiago Silva failed the drug test.
One of the MMA sites mislabeled (Thiago Alves for Thiago Silva) the heading of one of their pieces.
the article I read was headlined a tale of two Thiago’s.
Saying that Silva and Alves both failed tests.
But nothing is confirmed, though Thiago Silva is said to have failed a test, the second sample I dont believe has come back yet, but nothing has been confirmed with Alves.
That article is wrong, forget you ever read it. Here is the link to that article.
It said Alves was the only name missing from a list of people who passed drug tests at 124. This should pop up at least 2 red flags. 1 this is very similar to what is happening to Thiago Silva. 2. Where is this list? Where is any list of any drug test ever happening at a UFC event in Montreal?
Over blown
It’s not any more relevant than Evans/Rampage 2. The first one was a bore fest after the over hyped nature of the fight. The backlash was that this appetite for a 2nd match is very low.
This is really a low key match to keep Page active and position him better to take the title shot at Bones or Shogun.
Hamil has been out and needs a fight, and he IS coming off wins as well.
You position a fighter who just beat a former champion for a shot at the gold by having him fight a guy 14 slots behind him in the rankings?
A fight between Hamill and Jackson is just as relevant as a fight between two former champs who drew a million PPV buys together? One guy who earned a title shot and another who just beat the former champion?
Ok.
by Jonathan Snowden on Feb 15, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
@Snowden,
Do you think a fight versus Phil Davis would be more relevant? Hyped up as a tough fight versus an undefeated opponent, or would it to big a step up in competition, and a waste of a good prospect.
Either Page or Davis would be marketable coming off a win...
It is win win matchmaking.
If Hamill wins, the UFC loses a start and gains nothing.
Hamill is for some reason the least inspiring deaf person overcomes story I have ever seen. He just isn’t all that likable.
I thought it was about the sport not making fights that one guy should win so they keep a draw, if Page cant beat Hamill right now then he has no business fighting SHogun, Rashad, Jones etc.
thought it was about the sport not making fights that one guy should win so they keep a draw
You keep talking about how this fight was solely made to keep a draw on the card…
Hamill doesn’t belong in the cage with Rampage
But Hamill is game, you dont think Hamill is game? With his wrestling? He def is game, I dont think he wins the fight but I honestly wouldnt be shocked, with with Rashad did to him I could see Hamill getting Page down and controlling him.
Your the one saying they shouldnt make this fight cause what if Hamill wins.
I’m saying they made this fight to keep Page on the card, didnt say its a fight they made to make sure Page wins to keep a draw, they made the best fight they could to make sure Page is on the card.
Sigh
I don’t know why we must persist with this “its too early” argument? I agree that it would be a huge jump for Davis, but you can’t seriously argue that Matt Hamill is a better fight for Rampage. We’ve seen everything that Hamill has to offer. It is unlikely he will ever see the top ten in the division again. I will bet my retirement fund that he never gets another title shot.
Davis at least offers upside, and is a legitimate young gun of the division. He might get overwhelmed by Rampage’s ability and experience, but even a bad loss to a guy like Rampage wouldn’t hurt him that much. And if he does well — even in defeat — it probably raises his stock.
Davis-Rampage is approximately a billion times more compelling than Rampage-Hamill. Who cares if it’s too early?
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Feb 15, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
I respectfully disagree.
They are letting Davis progress. His striking is very subpar. Letting him get blasted by Rampage wouldn’t do much for either.
To clarify
Davis wouldn’t be my first choice for Rampage, but I prefer him about 100x over Hamill, who is a journeyman/gatekeeper in a crowded division. If Davis can’t hang with Rampage’s striking, what is Hamill going to do with it?
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Feb 15, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
He is too much of a risk
for the UFC to put him in there with Rampage – guy has probably the best wrestling in all of MMA…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 15, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
I agree, but...
The UFC already has a shit ton of talent at LHW there are almost too many names to put them all in meaningful fights. That is why they were willing to sacrifice the loser of Bader / Jones.
Davis being set back a year really wouldn’t hurt with Page / Jones / Evans / Machida / Forrest / Silva all win or two away from a title shot.
I was referring to the risk to Rampage, not from him.
And imo Jones/Bader was put together because it was clear to the UFC that Bader, while perhaps a perennial top-10 guy (like Mir), was never going to get a title shot at LHW unless he was protected along the way.
Still surprised me, given the treatment TUF winners usually get…
Maybe Bader just didn’t have the juice to not have to fight Jones…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 15, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think Page is going to be fight for too much longer...
He really doesn’t look like his old self and he could lose this fight.
I would rather see him in there with somebody who could become a star than somebody who will never anything better than a gate keeper.
I question his commitment and I question what he has left.
Page is 250 lbs right now.
Look back at his last 5 fights…
Forrest Griffin – Lost his title albeit in a close fight.
Wanderlei Silva – Won against an aging legend.
Keith Jardine – Won a close fight because of a takedown in the closing seconds.
Rashad Evans – Lost a fight and got held against the cage by a smaller fighter.
Lyoto Machida – Won a contentious decision.
He has been in there with the best in the world, but he hasn’t been blowing anybody out. Now is not the time to start playing with fire, unless that fire has some fuel behind it.
I agree with you, but
I think they are not going to sacrifice a potential Rampage title fight by putting him in with Davis, although as a huge Davis fan I think it would be great for him even in the unlikely event he loses.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 15, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
That how I see it as well
IMO this fight never happens if Jones wins, it is simply a contingency plan for Rua winning and Rashad getting the title shot.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 15, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Edd
On Joe Rogan’s podcast he said that Dana told him if Bader Beat Jones he would have gotten the title shot because they needed someone to fight Shogun.
by maniacalprima on Feb 17, 2011 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
100% agree
Except I would never bet my retirement on anything I didn’t have either direct control of or asymmetrical information about…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 15, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
Jon-
Can you please name a few fights that you feel would have been better/ more relevant? Rashad wasn’t a solid option- there’s way too much unknown regarding his injury and when he’ll be back. Plus, the commentary among MMA fans upon hearing the rumor that Rashad would be replacing Thiago wasn’t exactly lighting the world on fire- the most prevailing sentiment was "damn- we were really looking forward to the Rampage-Thiago fight. I’m just really curious as to which fights that were available to be made were overlooked here.
I agree with you that this isn’t the most intriguing matchup and it lacks the usual win/win style of matchmaking that Silva usually employs, but I’m more apathetic about Hamill-Jackson than petulant. Also, I’m confused as to how you can be so nonplussed by this matchup yet seem so offended and passionate about it.
by John Danaher's Hair on Feb 15, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
Better options:
1. Rashad: Nothing is tying them to this card. They can wait for Rashad to be ready, which according to Greg Jackson will be in fairly short order.
2. Thiago Silva: What’s the rush? Wait for the second sample to come back, then move forward.
3. Rua/Jones winner: Former champion who just beat Machida. I don’t think much more need be said to justify a title shot for Quinton, assuming Rashad can’t fight him in an eliminator first.
4. Forrest Griffin rematch: Unclear what the extent of the injury is to Forrest’s foot. If he’s able to fight by the summer time, that’s a much better fight.
I think those are all fights worthy of Rampage as his career on top winds down. Your body only has so many fights in it. I hate to see Rampage waste one on a Hamill level guy.
by Jonathan Snowden on Feb 15, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
Just as a counterpoint
What if it was Rampage insisting on this date? I mean to me it seems he’s just collecting a paycheck these days so I doubt he’s too hung up on who’s across the cage from him.
"So, while you're taking a break from the UFC, hanging out at some lame party that your girlfriend dragged you to, I'll man up and watch some goddamn fights like a goddamn adult."
- Mike Fagan
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Given the organizations history of matchmaking- and you said it well by stating that we’ve been “trained” to expect more, don’t you think that there’s information to which you’re not privy which is informing this decision? Like you say, this is a very un-UFC type fight, so I think that it’s fair to assume that the Joe Silva has some more concrete answers to the queries you list above.
Also, just to play devil’s advocate to your final thought above: some people think that fighters only have a limited amount of time, therefore should maximize that time by taking more fights. I’m closer to your side of the issue regarding this particular fight, but that is a prevailing thought in the sport.
by John Danaher's Hair on Feb 15, 2011 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
Well…in case of Thiago: how many times is the second sample clean when the first test is positive? I’d bet it’s not even one in a thousand. So, I think, this can be forgiven.
Rashad: hasn’t he basically declined the fight because he wants to see if he has a future at LHW (i.e. Jones loses)?
Agree on your other points though. As I’ve speculated somewhere else: maybe they want to get Rampage back into action before HE becomes a Heavyweight ;)
To save me some time on 25% of all threads, here's the universal answer to the Fedor-debate: Fedor is the most accomplished MMA fighter ever. That is a fact. If he still is the best fighter at this point in time is up for debate.
Since when do rankings matter?
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 15, 2011 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
It's not like there's a shortage of "former champsions" at LHW
I’m not really impressed with the “former champion” angle when you consider that
Evans
Griffin
Machida
Couture
-and if you want to stretch
Ortiz
Belfort
Could all be promoted with the “Former LHW champion” angle. As for rankings, as Dana would say “F@#k Rankings, they’re all made up any ways.”
Evans screwed himself for waiting for so long and quite honestly I think the “earned a title shot” has an annual expiration date if the fighter doesn’t stay active.
by squaresphere on Feb 15, 2011 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
Edd
Dana must have some kind of a ranking system when he has #1 contender fights. His system may not be as cut and dry as other’s but he has to have some kind of an idea where the fighters lie.
by maniacalprima on Feb 17, 2011 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
Hamill had a fight already scheduled
against Phil Davis, although in fairness to Hamill, if you are in a fight you are highly likely to lose, at least take it against the bigger name…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 15, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think this is bad matchmaking
Rampage wins this fight more times than not which is what the UFC wants . Is it a step down sure but i don’t think there is anyone that wouldn’t be a step down from Machida so why not Hamill.
The UFC excels at making matchups where they have a plan regardless of who wins...
There is no plan for a Hamill upset and this fight will not draw an audience. That is why it is poor.
by truck on Feb 15, 2011 10:49 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
How will this fight not draw an audience?
its easy to understand.
Edgar/Maynard
Page/Hamill
Mir/Nelson
Torres/Pickett
and possibly Stann/Santiago and Alves/Story and Browne/Struve, making the card stacked.
Sure nobody is gonna say oh man Page/Hamill I have to buy this card, but having Page on this card with Mir and Nelson and Torres and Edgar/Maynard makes the card very good, and its a fight Page should win.
I guess people would rather they take him off the card then, I for one would rather him stay on the card.
by Aldo27 on Feb 15, 2011 10:53 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
How will this fight not draw an audience?
because…
nobody is gonna say oh man Page/Hamill I have to buy this card
Yeah not by itself, but the card as a whole will with this fight on it.
getting Edgar and Maynard, getting Page on the card with Mir and Nelson and Torres and maybe Stann vs Santiago, as a whole that makes the card much better. Sure nobody is gonna say oh man I have to buy this card to see that fight, but as a whole getting Page on the card vs anyone is better then him being off the card, you dont agree?
You think this card will sell more PPV buys if Page was left off? Cause I dont.
He could fight anyone and it would help the card sell. And its not like Hamill is some can, he may not be the first choice for Page to fight, but he is a solid LHW, won 5 in a row, beat Tito and Jardine, I’d say as a replacement its not that bad.
Point is the UFC needs him on this card thats why he isnt being taken off to wait for Forrest or fight Rashad as a main event in June or July, they need him on this card, especially if Alves isnt on the card, and no word on if Santiago has really signed with teh UFC, so what if you lose those fights?
Your left with if you take Page off this card your left with
Edgar/Maynard
Mir/Nelson
Torres/Pickett
Browne/Struve
That a big time card for Memorial Day weekend?
I don't understand what you are ranting about...
It is a last minute throw together designed to keep Page on the card.
That doesn’t make it “good matchmaking” and it definitely doesn’t make it a good fight.
How is this a last minute throw together? Dude, it is February 15th. The fight card is May 28th.
by VirtualBalboa on Feb 15, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
I suppose it isn't last minute, but it is their fourth choice
Thiago Silva was booked
Shogun was offered
Evans was mentioned
They settled on Hamill
Bader, but coming off a loss… meh.
Lil’Nog, but he’s being handed a victory over Tito to build him back up.
I don’t remember if Griffin was suspended after the Franklin fight, but that would have been a great rematch to put together.
Getting bent out of shape over a fight promoter lying is like getting upset that a hooker won't kiss you. It betrays a deep lack of understanding of the nature of the profession.
Griffin injured his foot
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 15, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
there really isn’t, look at the rankings. He said no to Shogun, Rashad is the center of the debate, Machida is fighting Randy (you aren’t going to take that fight away from Randy, so both of them are out), Bader just lost, Forrest broke his foot, Jones is fighting Shogun, little Nog is headlining a fight night can’t grab him, Franklin would be interesting, but he just lost and I thought he said something about his arm after his last fight, but he doesn’t have a medical suspension, Randy-no, now we are down to Davis and Hamill.
You can argue that the next available fighter being so far down should have weighed more heavily in the decision to skip Rashad, but there aren’t many other options.
I think they can take Tito and Lil Nog from the card without doing much damage. Dan Hardy and Anthony Johnson can carry it well enough.
You’d burn the crowd. 10,000 people bought tickets to see Ortiz/Noguiera.
by VirtualBalboa on Feb 15, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
You are probably right. The big seller is not Nog. Its Ortiz. And yeah, Noguiera/Rampage would be much better in every way.
by VirtualBalboa on Feb 15, 2011 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
Lol. I was kidding about Brilz.
But you nailed it. People are going to see Tito. Beyond the hardcores, no one knows about Lil Nog.
Tito v. Bonnar wouldn’t be that bad.
That would be the place to put Mr. Wonderful (against Tito)
But I think they are trying to build Nog back up, and he is a very dangerous opponent for Rampage, who they want/need unbeaten for a future title fight.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 15, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
Tito I think wants a name across from him too, like Matt Hughes had been asking for instead of fighting prospects.
by VirtualBalboa on Feb 15, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
The problem with this logic is that the UFC runs more than one fight card a year. They are not forced to put Rampage in at UFC 130. He could just as easily coheadline UFC 131 against someone who is booked to fight already given that UFC 131 is almost 4 months from today. Or UFC 132.
by VirtualBalboa on Feb 15, 2011 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
I’m going to assume that the UFC really wants Rampage on UFC 130 to really sell the PPV because Edgar vs Maynard, as good as the second fight was, aren’t PPV draws. At this point, I don’t think moving Rampage to another card is really an option. Mir especially after the CroCop fight, isn’t going to sell too many PPVs, and Nelson is getting known, but isn’t a PPV draw. UFC 130 needs Rampage’s name value to really sell this card.
I won't jump off the bandwagon just because you lost.
When did i say it was good matchmaking? I said it was the best option they had.
And it could end up being a dam good fight.
WHo knows, but its to keep him on the card.
Edd
UFC obv thought that needing Page on that card outweighed the possibility of him losing. I think the strength of the division played part in that division. Plus even if Page loses, he’s still a big draw.
by maniacalprima on Feb 17, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
If Hamill wins yeah it hurts the UFC plans but who would you put in there on short notice I think Hamill is the best they could come up with giving Rashad didn’t want the fight
Phil Davis but I think most agree he is the top LHW prospect right now, since Jones isnt a prospect anymore and Bader lost, so they dont want to risk the next big LHW prospect, they will with Hamill though.
But really if the UFC needs him on this card or he wants to be on this card and not take to long off then I think this is the best option they can do without breaking up another fight.
They could break Tito/Nogs and do Page/Nogs, or Page/Randy but they arent gonna break those fights, one is a Spike main event and the other is a third fight on the Toronto card, so this is the best option they can make for this card.
Actually...
…the best option they have is to make Anderson Silva move up and fight Rampage. They’d never do that because it would jeoparidze the GSP-Megafight™. But damn, that would be the best.possible. matchup. :)
To save me some time on 25% of all threads, here's the universal answer to the Fedor-debate: Fedor is the most accomplished MMA fighter ever. That is a fact. If he still is the best fighter at this point in time is up for debate.
Well, if Hamill wins they can use him for a legit #1 contender bout against “whoever”. So it would have some merit. If Rampage wins they can chose to either give him a title shot or have him fight again.
To save me some time on 25% of all threads, here's the universal answer to the Fedor-debate: Fedor is the most accomplished MMA fighter ever. That is a fact. If he still is the best fighter at this point in time is up for debate.
with all due respect...
if the UFC excels at “making matchups where they have a plan regardless of who wins” don’t you think it’s possible that a) they have a plan even if you, Snowden or I can’t see it?
b) The UFC hasn’t been in the business of losing money for awhile now, so if they committed to this fight seeing the same things about it that we do, that perhaps there is information regarding the current landscape of the division that we (and even Snowden) are not privy to?
I love the current incarnation of interactive media, but all of these artificially strong, kneejerk reactions and the resulting entrenchment instead of discussion is getting really tiresome. If this fight was so boring and uninteresting, well then no one should have such strong feelings about it and if it wasn’t before, then this article just created dialogue for a fight that apparently no one wants to see.
by John Danaher's Hair on Feb 15, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, they're usually very good at this.
Sometimes they drop the ball though. What if Siver beats Sotiropoulos, what if Wineland beats Faber etc.
"All I gotta say is there's gonna be some more BLACK ON WHITE CRIME"...
…wait. That didn’t sound nearly as good.
Boo you Rashad! Boo you.
I had no idea Deaflympics was a real thing.
I thought you were being crass.
It may have to do with Rashad in all likelihood not being able to be ready and healthy and putting in a full camp for this event.
Anybody in this sport without a loss hasnt fought the right guy yet - Keith Jardine
by AintNoSunshine on Feb 15, 2011 10:49 AM EST via mobile reply actions
How many more full camps does he need? ;)
Yeah, I know, he’s hurt. But still…
To save me some time on 25% of all threads, here's the universal answer to the Fedor-debate: Fedor is the most accomplished MMA fighter ever. That is a fact. If he still is the best fighter at this point in time is up for debate.
I just love this is matchmaking misfire cause Hamill is 9 spots below Page yet didnt see anything when Diaz fought Cyborg, a top 10 WW vs a guy not even ranked in the top 25, thats ok though.
Fact is they clearly would have wanted Page/Forrest, but Forrest is hurt, Hamill is a fight Page should win, it keeps him on the card which they desperately need for the Memorial Day show, he should win and then you move on from there.
Holy fuck! Were you living under a rock for that debate?
when Diaz fought Cyborg, a top 10 WW vs a guy not even ranked in the top 25, thats ok though
No I know alot of people thought that was a mismatch.
This is his piece, Cyborg/Diaz will deliver. SF does it again.
Didnt matter if one was top 10 and the other not top 25, but in this case fighting a guy 9 spots lower then him is terrible.
Guess what... He was right. It was an awesome fight.
Strikeforce title don’t mean shit. The fight was exciting though.
by truck on Feb 15, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
It’s not nine slots below. It’s 14 slots below. Nine of them are UFC fighters. There was one Strikeforce welterweight between Diaz and Cyborg and he had just fought….It’s not analogous.
by Jonathan Snowden on Feb 15, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Seems you have an admirer.
BJJ > Sambo
by lowellthehammer on Feb 15, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It isn't.
Faulty analogies galore.
BJJ > Sambo
by lowellthehammer on Feb 15, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
How so?
Yeah ok, so he doesnt write alot of neg UFC pieces? UFC does it its bad, SF does it, its ok.
UFC announcers for a card did a bad job he rips them, Sf announcers put on the worst commentary ever and nothing.
Thats not true? Give me a break.
What does any of that have to do with anything?
You’re all over the place here.
BJJ > Sambo
by lowellthehammer on Feb 15, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Okay, this little meme of your is getting…tiresome…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 15, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Obvious troll was obvious...
Then he started announcing it.
by truck on Feb 15, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
you have offended the cool kids
how dare you point out that snowden often, not always, has an obvious bias. Clearly you are trolling, and your points have no merit. Your meme is tiresome, you are all over the place, lots of commas, etc. etc.
You have made the best counter argument to Snowden complaining about Hammill-Page, by pointing out his praise of who-cares-Cyborg against Nick Diaz.
I can see an exciting stand up war happening between Page and Hammill, probably a better fight than watching Rashad push Quinton against the fence for 4 mins a round again while punching his thigh, but hey that’s just me.
by chimps on Feb 15, 2011 5:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And look at the fighters below him.
Franklin just lost
Forrest hurt
Bader lost
Jones, Nogs, Randy have fights
Davis is still a prospect.
Thiago Silva drug test shit.
So they made due with what they could.
I mean people are acting like they made this match and said nah we just didnt want to see Page vs Thiago or Forrest right now.
I have a wild idea for you. Rather than risk one of your best drawing light heavyweights and all around stars in a meaningless fight, you take him out all together and put him on the shelf until a reasonable fight can be made. Crazy, I know!
by VirtualBalboa on Feb 15, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
Hold him for the Rua/Jones winner
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 15, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
Otherwise
Edgar/Maynard
Mir/Nelson
Torres/Pickett
Browne Struve
That could be the card, Santiago isnt officially signed, Alves who knows, rumblings about a failed test could keep him off this card, and no Page, doenst look like a big time selling card to me now, so they need Page on this card.
Alves is not going to sell tickets. If Edgar/Maynard and Mir can’t sell tickets as is, Rampage against some random body won’t help.
by VirtualBalboa on Feb 15, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
Wow.
I just, I cant. Page isnt gonna sell tickets? Page could fight a roll of toliet paper and help a card sell.
People want to see stars in meaningful fights against recognizable names they believe will be competitive with him. Rampage/Hammill is not such a fight. That is a UFN fight. If Jones goes and whoops up on Shogun in 30 seconds, the value of Rampage/Jones at UFC 132 or another show without a headliner is far, far greater than Rampage/Hammil on the UFC 130 undercard will ever be.
by VirtualBalboa on Feb 15, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
People dont give a shit, they want to see Page fight, and its funny people are acting like Hamill is some guy off the street not a guy who won 5 in a row and just beat a former UFC LHW champ.
Page knocking Hamill out people will love to see.
And frankly if Page cant beat Hamill then he doesnt deserve to be in teh cage with Shogun, Jones, Rashad.
And maybe Page didnt want to sit out longer, maybe he wanted to fight on this card so he isnt rusty, since he feels thats what cost him the Rashad fight.
He could have turned this fight down and said either find someone better or I’ll wait.
He should have turned this fight down. Hell, the fight never should have been offered. They should have been willing to go to him and Evans and offer them a rematch later in the summer. That could have sparked buys, ticket sales, and a big site fee.
by VirtualBalboa on Feb 15, 2011 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
The problem is
its not going to be viewed as potentially competitive by most fans, even if it turns out to be.
That, and 2 years from now people will be using taking this fight to “Fedor” Rampage…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 15, 2011 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
People do give a shit. That is why one million of them bought Rampage’s fight with Evans on PPV and 300,000 bought him fighting Jardine, and half a million bought the Machida fight.
by VirtualBalboa on Feb 15, 2011 11:22 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You just made my point for me, thanks.
So 300k vs Jardine in a weak card is bad? Its the same Edgar/maynard LW title fight did, half a mill bought the Machida fight, meaning people pay to see Page, and him just being on the card makes the card better, no matter who he fights.
Your acting like this is the only fight on the card, him on hte card with a LW title fight, Mir and Nelson makes the card much better, much deeper with some stars on it, if this card goes through as planned.
Edgar/Maynard
page/Hamill
Mir/Nelson
Torres/Pickett
Santiago/Stann
Struve/Browne
That card probably does 500 to 600k easy, probably double what Edgar/Maynard last fight did, some will be cause the last fight was good, and most will be cause it has Mir, Nelson and Page on the card.
He fought on a card that also featured Matt Hughes/BJ Penn 3 to get that half million. Crediting him with all of it because people want to see him is crazy talk.
If that show does 500K to 600K easy, what does Shogun/Rampage 2 for the title headlining UFC 132 do in terms of buyrate? The same? More?
by VirtualBalboa on Feb 15, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
Completely agree...
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 15, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
Rampage isn’t going to sell anything if it isn’t a meaningful fight. This is not a meaningful fight. Add in that UFC 130 already has Frank Mir on the card to coheadline with the Maynard/Edgar rematch and it should do “well enough”. Particularly since a Rampage headlined card against a real star would do much better business than Rampage against Hammill on this one.
Stupid, stupid matchmaking.
by VirtualBalboa on Feb 15, 2011 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
Risking Page in a meaningless fight that won't draw is worse for business
Than holding him out for a better fight.
I would argue
that Franklin, even off a loss is a better match-up, but I am really hoping they will give Franklin to Davis…
He at least isn’t quite getting the slow boat to China treatment Jones got coming up…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 15, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
Judging by the head to head matchup Franklin and Hammill, not to mention that Franklin has been a headliner for the UFC god knows how many times, it is clearly a better option. Even better yet – wait for Shogun/Jones!
by VirtualBalboa on Feb 15, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
Anyone ever hear any follow-up
on the rumor that Franklin would retire after his next fight? If so, he is even more ideal here, unless he is wanting a lay-up to go out on…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 15, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
Some dude wrote a letter to mmajunkie claiming it. I would guess it is a lie.
by VirtualBalboa on Feb 15, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
U guys are ignorant!
The Diaz/Cyborg fight was logical in several ways,
1. it was a exciting matchup (Rampage/Hamill is not)
2. SF doesn’t have 30 welterweight fighter under contract (While Daley might have been the proper contender, it didnt happend because Daley declined that fight. At least Cyborg didn’t have 9 guys in between him and Diaz, like Hamill does Rampage in the UFC)
3. Cyborg is definitely top 25 in the welterweight division (anyone that has followed MMA more then the last 4 years of the UFC, should know that), its not only judged after ur welterweight experience, but ur whole MMA career, and Cyborg has fought the who’s who in the sport!
And if you dont know, now you know..... !
You Realize
that, Diaz, fights, in Strikeforce, right? Their, welterweight, division, isn’t, packed, full, of , other, ranked, fighters.
Maybe next time
You could just spell out the commas.
"Nothing's ever what it seems. And even if it is, ends justify means." -Matt Good
by KingBrody on Feb 15, 2011 10:57 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Sorry.....
my computer got infected by the Aldo27 virus. It just starts inserting commas, instead of making valid arguments.
by nitecastle on Feb 15, 2011 11:05 AM EST up reply actions 10 recs
I look at it as an insurance policy
Rampage/Rashad is the fight that makes the most sense but if Jones wins the title, Rashad is out of the picture. If Rashad were to beat Rampage again, Rampage would be out of the title picture as well. By putting him against Matt Hamill you have a fight that he’s fairly likely to win and they can reasonably insert him into a title fight if Jones beats Shogun.
Why not just have Rampage sit and wait for the Jones/Shogun fight to be over? That fight is in about 4 weeks. This fight is over 3 months from now.
by VirtualBalboa on Feb 15, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
That is a valid point,
but since the Rua/Jones fight is in 5 or so weeks, if that is the case they should have waited.
Perhaps this is simply a contingency plan in case Rua wins and Rashad is right back in it…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 15, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t think it’s punishing Evans for sitting while Rua was hurt, I think it’s because he won’t fight his friends. Evans/Rampage should be billed as a number 1 contender’s match, they can’t do that if Evans won’t fight (and is on record as saying he won’t fight) a guy who is fighting for the belt between now and then.
Rashad never should have gone on record saying he wouldn’t fight jones, take this fight, then if you and bones win, find a way to get out of it then.
Wasn’t the first rampage vs rashad match billed as a number one contenders match?
Thank you UFC fans. My name Stun Gun. I want GSP
by crinow on Feb 15, 2011 11:22 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Should have simply saved Rampage for the winner of Rua/Jones
Unless Rampage was pushing for a fight, in which case Rich Franklin makes the most sense all around, despite coming off a loss to Griffin.
Is this a message being fired across the bow of Team Greg Jackson and Evans? Perhaps the former champion is being punished, denied a lucrative match with Jackson, for refusing to fight while awaiting a title shot at Rua?
You may be onto something here.
For all the Rampage fans, just be glad it was Hamill and not Davis selected to fight Rampage…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 15, 2011 11:04 AM EST reply actions
Well if it was Davis and he was able to take down and smother Rampage then he’s ready for anyone in the division
"You should work for 15 minutes to knock your opponent out, submit him, or improve your position to give yourself the best chance of doing either." - Dan Hardy
Completely agree, but
I think they are still hoping to get a title fight of Rua/Rampage, given the huge numbers it would likely do.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 15, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
A Rare UFC Matchmaking Misfire
This phrase went through my mind verbatim when I saw this fight was announced. Rampage wins and nothing changes. Hamill wins and he takes an important step toward contendership but doesn’t quite get there, meanwhile Rampage loses his bid altogether.
I’m open to the possibility that Joe silva is somehow thinking 5 moves ahead while I’m only thinking 2, but I guess we’ll have to wait and see.
Actually, the UFC’s matchmaking in the middleweight division is far worse.
Akiyama, coming off two straight losses and a gift decision over Belcher, is fighting a top-5 guy in nate Marquardt.
Michael Bisping, coming off two wins (including one over Akiyama) is taking on Jorge Rivera, a borderline top-25 guy.
Details:
One guy they are trying to build up for a title fight – the other guy they are trying to squeeze every last dollar out of before they release him
"You should work for 15 minutes to knock your opponent out, submit him, or improve your position to give yourself the best chance of doing either." - Dan Hardy
My thoughts exactly...
Bisping will be protected as best they can toward a title shot.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 15, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
As Dana would probably say “bad sh*t happen in this sport”. It is not that UFC made a ridiculous decision or messed up their match-making. How did we got here?
1. Rashad got hurt, giving the small loophole for Rampage to jump in and take the title shot. Rampage declined.
t h
2. Thiago pulls out, due to drug-related issues. Rashad refuses to fight Rampage and opts to wait for his “title shot”.
What are your options? Sideline Rampage ‘till the whole mess gets figured out. Or just get him someone else. But who they should realistically get. The only viable option is Forrest Griffin, but they’ve already fought and Forrest isn’t exactly on a roll or something. Hamill on the other hand, 6 fight winning streak (yeah, the DQ against Jones, but it still counts). And more importantly, he has an interesting story to tell.
But that is the good thing about UFC. Even if a fight gets messed up there are always a couple of other fights to care for.
Yes. You sideline guys until the mess is sorted out. That could happen in as short as 4 weeks. This fight is being booked 3 months out.
by VirtualBalboa on Feb 15, 2011 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
Why does every fight have to be a guaranteed thriller?
I agree that this fight isn’t the most anticipated fight of the year.
That being said, what is wrong with this fight? As previous comments have mentioned, there aren’t a lot of matchups with Rampage that make more sense right now. Hamill has been doing well, and Silva probably figured that it was time to see if Matt could win against top-level fighters.
I see nothing wrong with this fight.
I was really looking forward to Phil Davis and Matt Hamill because I think Hamill’s wrestling keeps that fight standing and I’d love to see Phil Davis strike for more than 20 seconds in a round.
But as a Hamill fan, I’m happy to see him earn this opportunity with his recent win streak. When he was originally promised a top-10 opponent, Rampage looked like the only one in the top-10 he had a decent chance of beating. Now, after the Machida fight, I’m not so sure.
Getting bent out of shape over a fight promoter lying is like getting upset that a hooker won't kiss you. It betrays a deep lack of understanding of the nature of the profession.
Davis has the best wrestling in all of MMA imo, only perhaps Jones could keep from being taken down repeatedly by him…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 15, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
I’m a huge Davis mark, but he hasn’t proven that yet. If he does fight someone with great wrestling like Jones or great takedown defense like Machida and is still able to take and hold them down, then I’ll believe you.
I realize that just like people were with Jones and are with Overeem, they will be with Davis.
Personally, I have seen enough of what I need to of each, and am just hoping the Davis doesn’t get the forever and a day prospect treatment they gave Jones…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 15, 2011 9:18 PM EST up reply actions
This fight makes sense because it is a fight that Rampage is likely to win, and will then lead to a title shot. There is no way the UFC could have given Rampage a title shot without this—a one win win streak (a controversial win at that) in a highly competitive division does not justify a title shot. It is a bit confusing as to what happened to Rashad/Rampage two—it seems that Rashad want to wait to see if Jones becomes champion before deciding which weight class to compete in. Also, the UFC might have wanted to save the Rashad/Rampage match for later, either for a title, or to keep in their back pocket if both guys are out of title contention. It wouldn’t make sense to do Rashad/Rampage if Jones wins the title, as a Rashad win would then eliminate a great title contender rather than create one. Is their a risk that Hamil wins? Sure, but no fight is risk free. Joe Silva’s “win/win” matchmaking is a bit oversold—there is always one outcome that is preferable. In this case, if Hamil wins, he could be put in a high profile bot against a guy like Forrest to decide a title contender. Hamil as contender seems odd, but not if he beats two top guys.
Yeah this match-up is terrible no matter how you look at it.
Here is another possibility:
Rashad really did turn down the fight, and for the reasons he claimed. The UFC is furious with him, as, honestly, any right-thinking business people would be. So the UFC is proving to Rashad that they can do without him.
Maybe the idea is to put pressure on Rashad and get him to accept the fight with Rampage.
by Lauren J Darkbloom on Feb 15, 2011 11:30 AM EST reply actions
how about scott jorgensen vs ken stone?
grispi vs roop is also weird as is faber vs wineland
i havent much liked the way joe silva has handled the WEC guys outside of mendes omigawa and torres vs pickett
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
Outside of Faber, it doesn’t matter if any of those guys win or lose. I think they’re looking to get a nice looking win for Faber against a guy he matches up well with.
by VirtualBalboa on Feb 15, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
Silva isn't matchmaking WEC guys I didn't think.
Thought they kept the WEC matchmaker for that.
Grispi/Roop and Jorgensen/Stone are the same as Fitch/Gono. Give a falling contender a rebound fight. Faber/Wineland is a fight between two former champions, I like that fight too.
BJJ > Sambo
by lowellthehammer on Feb 15, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
Those are good fights, how are they not?
Grispi/Roop is a very good matchup, Roop needs to win to keep his job, Grispi needs to bounce back after his loss.
Faber/Wineland isnt good matchmaking?
idk not a fan of faber wineland personally
guess everyone else is, and i’d much rather see jorgensen and grispi have different fights those are just squash mathches
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
Wineland’s “championship” was won back when the WEC titles meant jack. He’s not a terrible fighter, but its not really the fight I want for Faber. I don’t know anyone who was demanding it.
by VirtualBalboa on Feb 15, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
He's been on a nice rebound as well.
BJJ > Sambo
by lowellthehammer on Feb 15, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
Lets put it this way: If Wineland wins, will anyone care about him?
by VirtualBalboa on Feb 15, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
Does anyone care about any fighter other than Faber at BW?
BJJ > Sambo
by lowellthehammer on Feb 15, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
i love all of them
but im in the minority here WEC NEVER DIE
but i really wanted to see faber fight someone really tough, like pickett benevidez or bowles. wineland is kinda a step sideways to get him a win on in front of the ppv audience
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
Benavidez is a training partner.
Bowles is fighting Page. Pickett lost to Scottie.
Wineland put together a nice streak and now it’s time to see if he’s still got it. If he beats Faber he’ll be the most unique challenge for Cruz in the division as he’s no joke standing.
BJJ > Sambo
by lowellthehammer on Feb 15, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
holy shit how did i forget that about benavidez
too early in the morning for me
picketts one of my favorite bws though i wanna see him fight everyone
and cruz wins his fights because he is the best wrestler and fastest guy in the cage, noone has yet to figure out his style standing and i think taking him down is the key. maybe a high level striker can take him out but honestly how many of them are there in the bw division?
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
Cruz's standup is his best attribute in combination with his wrestling.
He hasn’t been facing great strikers and I didn’t think he looked nearly as good on the feet against Benavidez as he did against the flat footed Bowles and Jorgensen. Wineland, if he gets past Faber, will be a legit test.
BJJ > Sambo
by lowellthehammer on Feb 15, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
Not talking hardcore, talking about draws.
Nobody’s a draw except Faber.
BJJ > Sambo
by lowellthehammer on Feb 15, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
so sadly true
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
i didn't read all the comments
just wanted to say that i think this is a great article and i agree with it 100%.
also: why does hamill get to “duck” davis? (harsh word i know, but still).
Seriously?
If Hamill turned down the Davis fight to fight Brandon Vera, then he would be ducking Davis. He is fighting a top 5ish LHW with great wrestling, great boxing, and heavy hands. Against Davis I atleast thought he’d have a chance in the standup, but he really has no advantages here
Dear audio diary: Today I may have accidentally registered myself as a sex offender! WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY LIFE
- T-Rex
by sitnam90 on Feb 15, 2011 12:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
He has a wrestling advantage against Rampage, and a huge wrestling disadvantage against Davis, but clearly Rampage is a better fight for him to take – if you are likely to lose either way, lose to the bigger name…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 15, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
Oh no doubt
This fight is much better for him in terms of potential profit ; but he isn’t ‘ducking’ Davis. Its like saying Fitch is ducking Ellenberger for taking the BJ fight
Dear audio diary: Today I may have accidentally registered myself as a sex offender! WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY LIFE
- T-Rex
by sitnam90 on Feb 15, 2011 1:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
my bad
it was a bad choice of words
replace the word “duck” with “skip”
why does he get to “skip” davis? i would have picked davis to win that fight so i would think if anyone would get bumped up, it would be him.
in my opinion, hamill has as good a shot of beating rampage as davis (neither very good), but there is obviously more upside.
didn’t mean to rag hamill, i like the guy as much as anyone else.
Your blowing this way out of proportion
And your failing to note the circumstances. Hamill vs Rampage isn’t a great match-up. But its the best the UFC had. Forrest is injured, Bader/Franklin just lost, Machida/Shogun/Couture/Jones/Nog are all tied up with fights. That leaves Rashad, But that fight is too lucrative to have as the co-main of a card like this and Rashad is hurt. Rampage has the name power to make this card a saleable product for the casuals. It’s not the optimal choice but circumstances didn’t allow for anything better.
Dear audio diary: Today I may have accidentally registered myself as a sex offender! WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY LIFE
- T-Rex
by sitnam90 on Feb 15, 2011 11:47 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I will agree with this article, simply because I yawned at the matchup as well. An author who speaks my mind can not possibly be wront, right?
I still would’ve liked to hear a bit of “behind the scenes”-talk. If we assume that Joe Silva is as good as the article suggests, I’d guess he had some reason to make this fight. Speculation: maybe they want to keep Rampage active before he gets even fatter, more ring-rusty and starts looking for movie-offers?
To save me some time on 25% of all threads, here's the universal answer to the Fedor-debate: Fedor is the most accomplished MMA fighter ever. That is a fact. If he still is the best fighter at this point in time is up for debate.
Dammit....
I dont know how to post pictures! Was trying to put up Gene Hackman from Unforgiven. “Misfire!!! Kill the sunufabitch!”
by ODBasyoucansee on Feb 15, 2011 12:09 PM EST reply actions
I kinda don’t get it. It’s clear the UFC won’t go with Rampage/Rashad 2 on that card, especially as a co-main. A few people keep asking “who else”, which I don’t see really covered anywhere else. Hamill is the next highest-ranked guy that could be slotted in there, isn’t he? I mean, they even took him out of another fight to put him there. While I don’t particularly like the fight, if you want to keep Rampage on 130 (which they clearly do), I’m not sure who else you’re supposed to book him against. Again, Rashad clearly wasn’t an option.
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
Franklin is a better choice IMO,
and Davis is higher ranked than Hamill, although Rampage is more likely to beat Hamill than Davis, who I think is a very bad match-up for him…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 15, 2011 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
Davis is staying on the 129 card, and they’re not going to feed him to a top 5 guy right away. And Franklin is coming off a loss. He’s not in a position to take that fight.
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
Now that you mention it...
how about Davis/Franklin?
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 15, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
Someone mentioned this a few days ago
Bonnar/Davis, I wouldn’t be surprised to see it happen. Good match up in a lot of ways.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
Again, Rashad clearly wasn’t an option.
Why not? Nothing ties Rampage to this card. You save him until there is a fight worthy of him.
by Jonathan Snowden on Feb 15, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It’s clear because they didn’t offer Rashad the fight for whatever reason. You’re right that nothing ties him to the card that we know of. But doing Rampage/Rashad 2 as the main event of a show in Vancouver doesn’t make a lot of sense, so you’ve probably got to sit Rampage until at least July 2nd then. You’ve got no other proven top draws on 130 anyway, so I can understand why they’d want to keep him there. Mir/Nelson is a good fight, but I don’t think it’s a good enough co-main to hold up Edgar/Maynard 3.
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
Really?
I’d watch Edgar/Maynard 3 and two and a half hours of old women knitting.
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 15, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
You might. But it got a pretty bad buyrate last time. I’m not alone in thinking they need Rampage there to prop up the PPV sales a bit.
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
I have trouble contemplating the MMA fan that sees Edgar-Maynard III and says “put Rampage on that card and I’ll buy it.”
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 15, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
You have trouble contemplating a lot of things. Rampage is a draw. There are many people out there that will pay to see Rampage fight, no matter what else is on the card. Maynard and Edgar? Not so much, even with their last fight.
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
I don’t see a legion of Rampage fans that are solely interested in seeing him fight. How many buys can that be worth, really? 20,000?
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 15, 2011 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think there’s some static number you can put on it. But I think the card sells better when you combine Rampage/LW title fight/Mir-Nelson than just LW title fight/Mir-Nelson. I could be wrong. But it seems like the UFC wants Rampage on UFC 130, since he’s staying there.
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
Could be that Rampage wanted to be on the card and needed a body to fight. Lots of variables that could lead to this match up beyond being afraid of the buy rate. But who knows.
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 15, 2011 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
Wasn’t there a mmapayout series about the best drawing fighters? Maybe you should check that… I don’t remember Rampage in there though…
To save me some time on 25% of all threads, here's the universal answer to the Fedor-debate: Fedor is the most accomplished MMA fighter ever. That is a fact. If he still is the best fighter at this point in time is up for debate.
That 'loss' to Bisping was utter BS and I'm pretty sure everyone knows it
His loss to Bisping was as much of a loss as his ‘win’ over Jones was a win. The records read one thing, but the world knows better.
So Franklin, who has only 5 career losses to only top-level competition and Jones, the next big thing who has never been defeated. Being beaten by only those 2 fighters is not bad at all.
CPG
Alistair Overeem - StrikeForce HeavyWeight Champion, K-1 2010 World Grand Prix Champion, DREAM Interim HeavyWeight Champion
I agree with this 100%
I don’t understand all the hate for Hamill. I thought he was a pretty popular fighter.
not so much hate as realism
The match isn’t very fair to Jackson or the fans. Literally no one asked to see this fight and 95% of fans aren’t very excited about it.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
I'm confused.
Franklin, who has only 5 career losses to only top-level competition and Jones,
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
Those are the only two people who have defeated Hamill
Franklin, who has 6(not 5 anymore, my bad) and Jones, who was lost, but never been beaten, are the only 2 Hamill has legitimately been beaten by(note, beaten by, not ‘lost to’)
CPG
Alistair Overeem - StrikeForce HeavyWeight Champion, K-1 2010 World Grand Prix Champion, DREAM Interim HeavyWeight Champion
by Chris Groves on Feb 15, 2011 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
He got beat by Bisping
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on Feb 15, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
He lost that fight.
Sorry but he lost. No doubt about it. He won the first round decisively but he got beat in rounds 2 (barely) and 3. Only people who have extensive hate for the product from Britain are blinded by the truth.
by Spider_Vemon on Feb 15, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
Well then sorry he beat Jon Jones
Only people who saw that Matt was laying on the ground unable to get up when the fight was over are blinded by the truth.
I undertsand your point
but you’re comparing a close decision(Hamill) to a bad fight ending call by the ref(Jones).
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
That's why the british crowd in attendence booed
because Bisping winning the decision was such the right call?
CPG
Alistair Overeem - StrikeForce HeavyWeight Champion, K-1 2010 World Grand Prix Champion, DREAM Interim HeavyWeight Champion
by Chris Groves on Feb 15, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
So we're picking a winner by crowd reaction?
When do they install the noise meters on the octagon fence? What do they do, have Buffer ask the audience to take turns cheering for who they though won after the fight?
"So, while you're taking a break from the UFC, hanging out at some lame party that your girlfriend dragged you to, I'll man up and watch some goddamn fights like a goddamn adult."
- Mike Fagan
Support independent artists
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Whachu mean?
So Franklin, who has only 5 career losses to only top-level competition and Jones
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
The reason for this match up is simple. Should Hamill implement the Rashad Evans game plan and hold Rampage down in route to a decision win then after Jones has prison raped Rua it can set up jones to avenge the only “loss” on his record. :)
That's good thinking.
They need to get Rampage out of the picture. Hammil’s a cash cow ;)
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
He could be should he beat Rampage. And you know with the UFC hype machine they’ll be pushing the whole “Only man to ever beat Jon Jones” angle. I mean it’s all bullshit but this is the UFC world we live in. :)
by Spider_Vemon on Feb 15, 2011 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
I remember hearing in an interview somewhere that ‘Okami has a win’ over AS. Shame too because that was one of the coolest KOs ive ever seen. Mostly overlooked because it ended in DQ
by ODBasyoucansee on Feb 15, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
He is also a natural draw for the disabled community
The man markets himself!
Dear audio diary: Today I may have accidentally registered myself as a sex offender! WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY LIFE
- T-Rex
by sitnam90 on Feb 15, 2011 1:53 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Even the UFC couldn’t sell the Hamill fight as a real win. Not. a. chance.
To save me some time on 25% of all threads, here's the universal answer to the Fedor-debate: Fedor is the most accomplished MMA fighter ever. That is a fact. If he still is the best fighter at this point in time is up for debate.
“His opponent, the only man to hold a win against Jon Jones…”
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 15, 2011 8:58 PM EST up reply actions
Yes!
I would absolutely be up for that.
I hate that Jones has a loss that is by DQ in a fight he was dominating.
CPG
Alistair Overeem - StrikeForce HeavyWeight Champion, K-1 2010 World Grand Prix Champion, DREAM Interim HeavyWeight Champion
by Chris Groves on Feb 15, 2011 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
People are complaining that we’re wasting a Rampage fight on Hamill and now you wanna give Jones the same can to crush again? makes no sense, except from a purely sadistic standpoint. ;)
To save me some time on 25% of all threads, here's the universal answer to the Fedor-debate: Fedor is the most accomplished MMA fighter ever. That is a fact. If he still is the best fighter at this point in time is up for debate.
IF Hamill beats Rampage
then yes, considering Dana said that Rampage is probably next in line for the title shot.
CPG
Alistair Overeem - StrikeForce HeavyWeight Champion, K-1 2010 World Grand Prix Champion, DREAM Interim HeavyWeight Champion
by Chris Groves on Feb 15, 2011 7:34 PM EST up reply actions
you think Hamill's a can?
He may have limited upside, but he’s a solid pro fighter- may never get past being a gatekeeper, but I’m sure many people said that a deaf guy could never fight in the big leagues in the first place. I think that Hamill’s getting disrespected here- the only way to find out what he is is by matching him up against better fighters.
by John Danaher's Hair on Feb 15, 2011 9:03 PM EST up reply actions
While I do agree that the fight isn't very good on paper
A Hamill win here would be something that I think would recieve a lot of mainstream coverage and I would think that it would be very positive. A deaf olympics champion beating an ex-champion of the sport would be a nice little feature on ESPN 360 or could make an extended spot on a Sunday edition of Sportscenter. A little interview, the recently put out movie, his "humble beginnings…etc.
If Rampage wins, you have to hope that he does it in dominating fashion with a KO for the highlight reel so that the lead-up to his next (i would assume mega-) fight can slide in an extra Goldberg “IT IS ALL OVER” fight call. And a little PrimeTime talk: “He was the hungry ex-champion who couldn’t find a fight” “I just had to stay busy, keep working…” if he wins in so-so fashion you can gloss over it as a win over the tough and durable Matt Hamill and show his more impressive acts of late.
Is it the best fight they could have made? No I don’t think so. But I am kind of excited to see what happens as Rampage has been neutralized by wrestling and Rampage always comes to bang. It could work for the UFC either way but I do agree that Rampage should be used better.
"All I guarantee is violence" - Wand
by rockied on Feb 15, 2011 12:50 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
The movie about Hamill is out?
What’s it called? Got a link / trailer?
To save me some time on 25% of all threads, here's the universal answer to the Fedor-debate: Fedor is the most accomplished MMA fighter ever. That is a fact. If he still is the best fighter at this point in time is up for debate.
Just realized if Hammil cheats and wins
The headline would read:
Rampage Jackson Beaten by Greased-Up Deaf Guy
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
by TheFilt on Feb 15, 2011 12:53 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
God I hope this is what happens! Lol <3 Family Guy.
by Spider_Vemon on Feb 15, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
Lil Nog vs Brilz was a worse misfire than this
Not saying that this wasn’t a misfire, but this piece is making it look like this is the worst matchmaking choice they’ve ever made. They’re making lemonade from the lemons they’ve been given with the NSAC drug tests and all.
In all fairness,
Brilz filled in on 2-3 weeks notice against Nog…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 15, 2011 9:06 PM EST up reply actions
Snowden, you jest....
Frankie Edgar-Gray Maynard main event that failed to capture hearts and minds in January
I don’t know where you got that from, but every single person I talked to about that fight and most of the comments here show the exact opposite. Almost everyone grew to respect and and like both Edgar and Gray much more because of their Jan rematch.
I considered flying to Vegas
just cause half the seats there were given away and the plane ticket is cheap.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
Everyone will pay for their rematch
CPG
Alistair Overeem - StrikeForce HeavyWeight Champion, K-1 2010 World Grand Prix Champion, DREAM Interim HeavyWeight Champion
by Chris Groves on Feb 15, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
Really?
Why? Because of all the people who didn’t watch the 125 fight?
It was one of my favorite fights of all time, but Maynard and Edgar are still terribly low profile.
"So, while you're taking a break from the UFC, hanging out at some lame party that your girlfriend dragged you to, I'll man up and watch some goddamn fights like a goddamn adult."
- Mike Fagan
Support independent artists
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You're really raining on his youthful optimism here man.
BJJ > Sambo
by lowellthehammer on Feb 15, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
Truth hurts
"So, while you're taking a break from the UFC, hanging out at some lame party that your girlfriend dragged you to, I'll man up and watch some goddamn fights like a goddamn adult."
- Mike Fagan
Support independent artists
http://worldisart365.blogspot.com/
Made me lol in class.
Bastard.
BJJ > Sambo
by lowellthehammer on Feb 15, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
I’m obviously not as integrated in the mma scene and media as you are, but it seemed to me that while it was very low profile going into the fight, afterwards, the fight sort of mushroomed beyond its initial draw. It became a fight that people talked about to other people, spreading how good it was, drawing people in to watch what they had missed. I’m being completely anecdotal here, and you’ve probably got a better feel for it, but didn’t the fight profile blow up after the fact?
Yeah I saw the fight with about 20 people. Three were hard core fans. The rest wanted to see Frankie get knocked out because he beat BJ in a way that was not appealing to them. After the fight was over about 10 of them said that the weren’t watching the next fight with either of them on it. Different strokes for different folks.
If you can't wow them with brilliance, then baffle them with bullshit.
You slapped them though…right?
To save me some time on 25% of all threads, here's the universal answer to the Fedor-debate: Fedor is the most accomplished MMA fighter ever. That is a fact. If he still is the best fighter at this point in time is up for debate.
I can’t talk about the specifics. It’s still under investigation.
If you can't wow them with brilliance, then baffle them with bullshit.
by DayGeaux on Feb 15, 2011 5:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That’s what Thiago said! Anyways: they fell down those stairs. All ten of them. I remember now. I saw it!
To save me some time on 25% of all threads, here's the universal answer to the Fedor-debate: Fedor is the most accomplished MMA fighter ever. That is a fact. If he still is the best fighter at this point in time is up for debate.
to the original argument, I thought Hammil beat Bisping, but I agree on this fight
Franklin tooled Hammil and Franklin was just soundly beat by Forrest, Franklin will never be a top contender at 205
Jones destroyed him
his big win is Jardine, who style wise, has some big wins, but only because of his style, Hammil was tailor made to beat him and Jardines best days appear to be behind him
There is no upside for this with Rampage unless he has already been promised the winner of Rua/Jones and just wants to wait on the winner while staying active and getting a pay day, that would make some sense on his end
matchmaking, this makes no sense, Rashad and Rampage is the ideal fight, a great rematch and it sells. The only draw-back is if Rashad wins again, and Jones takes the title, the top two guys are in the same camp. Rashad will probably stay inactive till they see what comes out of this but if Jones wins, I think Rashad is better suited based on his frame and where he wrestled in college, to drop to MW. Rampage in the mean time could fight Bader, they could bump Lil Nog and have him fight Rampage, they could rematch Rampage and Forrest which has huge upside for the divsion – this fight makes no sense to me
What else could the UFC have done?
I think this is an overblown argument. Im not sure if Snowden forget that Hamil is a late replacement or if he just missed the drug test controversy surrounding Thiago Silva – Rampage’s original opponent.
In either case, when the UFC had to find a good fighter to step into a fight with Rampage late, they found a tough guy in Hamil who poses some interesting threats to Rampage and interesting means good. Its a fight that will allow us to gage Page’s takedown defense if nothing else.
Who else could the UFC have turned to?
Snowden makes it a point to say that there are 9 fighters in between Rampage and Hamil. Lets take a look at the rankings in between Page and Hamil…
1. Machida – already has a fight booked against Couture at UFC 129
2. Ryan Bader – Fought and lost against Jon Jones 2 weeks ago. I wouldnt expect the UFC to pair a prospect who just lost against one of their best LHWs.
3. Forrest Griffin – was injured in his last fight against Rich Franklin and could be out until August.
4. Jon Jones – is already scheduled to take on Shogun Rua in a title fight at UFC 128
5. Thiago Silva – rumors suggest that he may have failed a drug test and could be out for a while
6. Lil Nog – Already scheduled to face Tito Ortiz in March. Is also coming off a loss.
7.Gegard Mousasi – signed with StrikeForce
8. Rich Franklin – coming off of a loss.
9 -11 Rafael Cavalcante, Muhammed Lawal, Dan Henderson – are all contracted to StrikeForce
12. Randy Couture – already scheduled to face Machida.
13. Phil Davis – Prospect, scheduled to compete at UFC 129.
The UFC did the best they could under the circumstances presented to them.
There were 14 fighters, 9 in the UFC.
Phil Davis was supposed to fight Matt so obviously anyone fight could be scrapped for a better main event at UFC 130.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
Phil Davis is a worse choice
He is very young into his MMA career and he has a lot of potential as a prospect. If he beats Jackson then that’d be a huge step up. But a loss could ruin an awesome prospect
Whereas if Hamill loses, well he was just a gatekeeper anyway
Dear audio diary: Today I may have accidentally registered myself as a sex offender! WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY LIFE
- T-Rex
by sitnam90 on Feb 15, 2011 2:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Not the point
at all.
The dude was really wrong about a lot of things.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
Like what
Hamill was the most available opponet. All the other fighters ranked between the two are scheduled for fights. Hamill was scheduled for a fight as well, but it was a low profile match to build a prospect. Jason Brilz, K-Sos, or Bonnar can all do the same job. It is easy to replace Hamill with one of them, whereas replacing Couture or Machida would be harder.
Dear audio diary: Today I may have accidentally registered myself as a sex offender! WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY LIFE
- T-Rex
by sitnam90 on Feb 15, 2011 3:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
There was 14 fighters, not 9
for one.
For two, the UFC is willing to scrap almost any LHW fight to get a better main event for 130.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
If Hamill is that replaceable
why in the hell is he fighting Rampage Jackson(#3 ranked LHW alive)?
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
Beause UFC 130 needs a co main event
There is no better option out there. Jackson needs to stay on the card, and Hamill is the closest thing in rankings they have that is available. Every other fighter between them is A) Injured, B) Strikeforce, C) Already in another high profile fight, D) Coming off a loss Nog vs tito is too high profile to just replace, as is Couture vs Machida, Hamill vs Davis is not to high profile
Dear audio diary: Today I may have accidentally registered myself as a sex offender! WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY LIFE
- T-Rex
by sitnam90 on Feb 15, 2011 4:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Nog vs Tito too high profile?
Isn’t it a versus card?
They pulled Maia form the main event of one as a replacement.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
They pulled Maia
Because his opponet was injured and they needed a replacement for THAT card. Your talking about taking a perfectly healthy main event fighter off a card. Different scenarios.
Dear audio diary: Today I may have accidentally registered myself as a sex offender! WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY LIFE
- T-Rex
by sitnam90 on Feb 15, 2011 5:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
True
But Hamill’s not the best possible replacement.
Why exactly is Rashad omitted form that list?
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
I think the UFC is figuring the rematch is to big of a fight to put as a co-main event
Dear audio diary: Today I may have accidentally registered myself as a sex offender! WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY LIFE
- T-Rex
by sitnam90 on Feb 15, 2011 6:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
A loss by Davis to the #1 contender in the division...
Doesn’t really hurt him at all. It just says the UFC gave him a shot and he’s not ready yet. It’d be a much better matchup than Hamill/Jackson.
Like Snowden said, if Hamill wins, what’s the plan? Everything goes to hell. On the other hand, the UFC has lots of options no matter how it turns out if Davis and Rampage fight. Only danger there is if Phil gets seriously injured. I guess that’s possible given his lack of boxing experience, but I don’t see it happening.
Rashad vs. Rampage 2...
Would be a waste to the UFC. That fight would headline a card by itself. Combining it with Edgar/Maynard is a waste to the UFC. They will eventually rematch those 2 and hype it up good.
May I just point out?
this fight that no one cares about seems to have engendered some awful strong opinions. If there was little interest in this fight to those on this site before, there will be now, now that people have their names attached to both sides of the argument. So, for those arguing that this is a terrible fight, yet have 76 comments in this thread stating such, you all know you’re gonna be watching this fight with baited breath if for no other reason than to ensure that it’s terrible and no one cares about it.
by John Danaher's Hair on Feb 15, 2011 2:16 PM EST reply actions
76 comments isn't a lot
and most of the comments are from handful of people debating whether this fight should even take place.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
I couldn’t agree more with Snowden on this one… this is a total lose/lose situation. If Hamill wins, it damages one of the more marketable guys in the UFC, and if Rampage wins, who cares, he did it against a guy that was ragdolled by Bones. And nobody cares about Hamill, win or loss.
this is sports...
whoever is better on that day will win, no one gets to pick the outcome. And to say that no one cares about Matt Hamill- a FUCKING DEAF GUY competing in MMA, is incredibly ignorant.
by John Danaher's Hair on Feb 15, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
which is incredible
It never ceases to amaze me watching his corner giving him hand signals.
by John Danaher's Hair on Feb 15, 2011 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
That's just insane that he can read them during a fight.
which makes me think, if his eye ever gets busted up he’d be seriously fucked.
He better train with Van Damme.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
they’re very rudimentary signals- I always watch his corner when he fights- they can only get his attn when his opponents back is to his corner, and they just point to the ground for takedowns and have numbers of punches or combos.
by John Danaher's Hair on Feb 15, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
Still incredible
Taking visual cues during a fight is not something most people will ever be ale to do.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
Wait, is Forrest hurt again after the Franklin fight?
If so, that’s terrible
Your signature should be this short.
by nerdVictory on Feb 15, 2011 2:31 PM EST via mobile reply actions
yeah-
he reportedly broke his foot.
by John Danaher's Hair on Feb 15, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
WHY WHY
Your signature should be this short.
by nerdVictory on Feb 15, 2011 2:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
In the medical suspensions for 126- needed X-rays on his foot, but we haven’t heard anything about the results: http://www.sbnation.com/mma/2011/2/8/1982275/ufc-126-fighter-injuries-and-suspensions
by John Danaher's Hair on Feb 15, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
I know his foot was hurt. That’s not the same thing as “reportedly broke his foot.”
by Jonathan Snowden on Feb 15, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
“foot injury that requires x-ray” what else do they look for besides broken bones in an x-ray? It didn’t say MRI…
by John Danaher's Hair on Feb 15, 2011 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
Here’s what happens: Forrest tells them his foot hurts. They say “Hey, better check that foot out.” That’s the extent of what we know.
by Jonathan Snowden on Feb 15, 2011 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
Don’t they do post-fight checkups? If the information gleaned from a check-up or Forrest’s complaint suggested ligament or tendon damage, wouldn’t they say “pending MRI”? Or is X-ray just used as a catchall term for any testing by commissions?
by John Danaher's Hair on Feb 15, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not saying his foot isn’t broken. I just haven’t seen it reported anywhere that it is. I hope not.
by Jonathan Snowden on Feb 15, 2011 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
I’m genuinely asking you the last question- I don’t know either, which is why I said reportedly, based on the information I have. But seriously, do they name specific tests other than x-rays in medical suspensions? I don’t know that I remember ever seeing “MRI” in the language.
by John Danaher's Hair on Feb 15, 2011 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
If you’re suspecting fracture first and foremost, you go with the x-ray because its cheaper and the complications associated are far fewer.
by VirtualBalboa on Feb 15, 2011 6:41 PM EST up reply actions
I totally agree with everything except for the lose to Bisping.
Clearly that fight was one of the UFC worse decisions EVER. He did good in that fight, and was a freshman in the sport at that time. But yeah he certainly doesn’t have anything to do with Rampage in a locked Cage.
And if you dont know, now you know..... !
My thoughts exactly
When I saw this matchup, I couldn’t believe it. Let’s get one of UFC’s biggest draws, who is making a great comeback and beating top level guys, and then pit him against someone who hasn’t beaten any top level guys except for a DQ to the guy who destroyed him? Yep, should be top PPV numbers on that one!
This reminds me of Alves/Howard
We all know how that turned out. Matt has the heart to weather a beating too. Hopefully he doesn’t have to.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
No "IT" factor
As described in the article, this fight just isn’t compelling when you look at it at first glance OR when you look into in depth. A rare miss by the UFC brass. The fight has no real storyline or hype and the fight itself isn’t likely to be too enthralling. In all likelihood, Rampage KO’s Hammill after a feeling out process or a less likely scenario, Hammill grinds out Rampage in similar fashion to Rashad Evans. There are so many more appealing matchups to put either man in, but especially Rampage. He appears to be coming to the end of his career and the UFC needs to get him in as many big blockbuster matchups as they can, not what’s become a sort of filler match with Hammill.
Agree with this
I like Hamill but this matchup is a mistake. Too high too fast. I don’t think Hamill has the tools to win this and if he does it’s going to be one of those fights that fans won’t enjoy.
Sot vs Siver is just shitty matchmaking.
But it’s not a waste of a draw like Rampage/Hamill is so its not as bad. Rampage/Hamill is bad on all fronts.
BJJ > Sambo
by lowellthehammer on Feb 16, 2011 1:53 AM EST up reply actions
Oh. No idea what you're talking about.
BJJ > Sambo
by lowellthehammer on Feb 16, 2011 9:26 AM EST up reply actions
You're not the first, my friend.
I spend so much of day being forced to make sense, sometimes I just like to get on Bloody Elbow and talk a whole lot of fuckery and nonsense.
by James Brady on Feb 16, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
Its not like everybody's favorite HW ever took fights against unranked Heavies... oh wait.
For Quinton, Its a stay in shape fight, which is much better than sitting on the shelf for a long time. Not a big deal at all, especially with out many other options. At least it isn’t Warpath, Hong Man Choi, or Zulu. Maybe there’s a WW out there who can fill in last minute. I’m sure that would go over well. lol.
GreenHouse
This is on par with
Bret Hart getting matched up with El Dandy.
Kendall Grove is my second favorite fighter. Everyone else is my favorite.
by monkeyfightclub on Feb 15, 2011 11:30 PM EST reply actions
glad someone else remembered that
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZe6LvqQaVk
Kendall Grove is my second favorite fighter. Everyone else is my favorite.
by monkeyfightclub on Feb 16, 2011 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
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