The Day the Heroes Died: Fedor Emelianenko and the End of an Era
by Jonathan Snowden on Feb 14, 2011 12:52 PM EST
in MMA Editorial
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It started at UFC 88 in Atlanta two and a half years ago, started with a right hand that shook the Phillips Arena and rattled poor Chuck Liddell's brain. Sitting on press row in the eerily silent aftermath, I watched my brother- in- law Justin cageside, snapping away like it was just another day at the office. The pictures were just as eerie as the dearth of sound - Liddell drooling, Liddell's eyes rolling back in his head, Liddell one step from death, his brain struggling to turn itself back on.
Little did we know at the time, but we were looking at the end of an era. Not just for Liddell, but for a generation of fighters. It shouldn't have come as a surprise. It happens to athletes across all sports, since time immemorial. Joe Montana, wearing the foreign jersey of the Kansas City Chiefs, head down as he walked off the field a final time. Ken Griffey Junior, once the vibrant young spark leading a baseball resurgence, reduced to a bench player, his bat no longer blazing at unprecedented speeds. Even the great Michael Jordan demanded someone prove to him he could no longer compete. After a long season in Washington, he finally called it quits.
Liddell is part of a generation of fighters who raised this sport up to heights unthinkable just scant years before. These men are like the heroes of old, warriors we will sing about when we are old, boring our grand kids with stories of their skill, heart, and determination. No one will remember Mirko Cro Cop, unable to even bring his legendary left leg high enough to throw a kick, let alone one that could send someone to the cemetery. We won't recall Matt Hughes, dismissively shoved away by Thiago Alves as the young Brazilian pummeled him in England. And we won't tell tales of Fedor Emelianenko, the king of kings, trapped beneath an enormous Antonio Silva, closing the book once and for all on his amazing generation.
Instead, we'll remember these men as they exist in our memories. Liddell, complete with a mohawk and an adorable paunch, sending Tito Ortiz crashing to the mat at UFC 66. Randy Couture, defying age and reason, depositing Tim Sylvia on his ample keister, the crowd for once actually getting behind a display of lay and pray, actually demanding it, holding our breaths waiting for the final bell to ring.
Everything will be bigger in our minds as the years race past. The impish Kazushi Sakuraba will have battled the legendary Royce Gracie for three hours in front of 150,000 silent Japanese salarymen. What followed will be erased for all time, Sakuraba held together by athletic tape and a strong will, demanding things his body was no longer capable of giving. B.J. Penn will be the guy who leaped out of the cage and sprinted to the back after knocking Caol Uno silly, the fierce Hawaiian jiu jitsu god who literally tasted his opponent's blood. The Penn who lost twice to a smaller Frankie Edgar will be left in the past where he belongs.
Fedor Emelianenko was the last hope of a generation of fighters who gave us the Pride Grand Prix and invented The Ultimate Fighter. The path to his resurgence was even grounded in the past - a tournament, just like the early days of the sport. But you can't fool father time. Antonio Silva slammed the door shut on a whole generation last weekend. The sport has evolved and there are new heroes to salute. Cain Velasquez, Edgar, and Georges St. Pierre are leading a new breed of fighters into the future. It's a glorious time, an era where everyone is well rounded, not just an immortal few.
The fighters are more skilled, more fit, better prepared. The future is now. Existing in our imagination, its potential limitless. But as this generation leads our sport to new markets and new opportunities, they'll be walking on a path carved out in the blood and sweat of men like Fedor Emelianenko. Fedor belongs now to the past, but he'll have an honored place in our memory, alongside his former opponents, training partners, and friends. His generation has done their work, done the sport proud. It's time now to rest as the new breed of fighter takes the sport to the mainstream and beyond.
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I think we just closed the coffin.
by Jonathan Snowden on Feb 14, 2011 10:35 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Is this equivalent to wishing we had 90’s rap? Cause I can’t let that go, but I’m tired of ppl wishing Pride was still here.
They made a video game about Yakuzas. It’s called Yakuza. And it’s about Yakuza
gocyborg.wordpress.com
It was pretty great. So I don’t really know what’s wrong with wanting another great promotion around.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 14, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
Lots of stuff
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Feb 14, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
I’m wondering how many posts and obituaries will be written once Anderson Silva loses.
- Will the discussion include the fact that he’s getting older – so obvious,
- his “unwillingness” to improve his wrestling and learn english
- the many, many, many holes in his game
- not to mention how he can’t sell tickets because he was too arrogant.
</sarcasm ends>
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
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VEe is ANIMated!
Just wondering what will be written when Silva eventually suffers a loss or worse, gets KOéd.
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
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VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Feb 14, 2011 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with you TRUCK!
but when the day comes that the sport and time has passed Silva by I hope he goes out graciously on top and not the way Chuck did.
by Spider_Vemon on Feb 14, 2011 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
Ehhh, I ‘rec this because I just don’t see AS losing any time soon. But stranger things has happened in MMA.
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
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VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Feb 14, 2011 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
TBH if Chael Sonnen ever gets a rematch or if we get the GSP v Silva super fight, whichever comes first, that will be when Silva loses. Despite what peoples feeling are about Chael as a person I think he has shown that he could have beat Silva. You will not convince me that Silva was just waiting until the 5th round to finally go for the submission. I also think GSP can take advantage of the same strategy and has the submission defense to not let that happen to him.
Reply FAIL or "I totally disagree with your statements"
Here’s why.
- Silva claimed his ribs were injured, I imagine that his rematch with Sonnen would be extremely different. But who really knows.
- Many people speculate with video evidence that he was looking for submissions very early in the fight. Waiting for the 5th rounds sounds exaggerated. We do know that he intended to submit Sonnen . . . see Silva enter the cage with a gi. Either way all the speculation does not matter. Silva definitively defeated Chael Sonnen. This was not Machida vs Rua I or Penn vs Edgar I, it was a definitive stoppage.
- GSP is not Chael Sonnen. While he may be able to take advantage of the same strategy. While GSP may have a nice reach and size for the welterweight division he does not have Chael Sonnen’s frame OR wrestling abilities. Whether you want to claim GSP is better than Sonnen at wrestling is another issue. But please do pay attention to what Sonnen was able to do in his last 4 UFC fights. Also note, Sonenn fought at 205lbs. I repeat GSP is not Chael Sonnen and will have to invent his own path to victory. Side note, Kenny Florian is not GSP. What worked for GSP against Penn at 170lbs. did not work for Kenny Florian. (Did you see what I did there?)
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
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VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Feb 14, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
My comment about Sila waiting until the 5th round was based on what he claimed in an interview saying he kept his legs low to bait Chael and finally brought them up to go for the sub.
I know that Chael is a better wrestler then GSP but from what I have seen from both GSP and Silva’s fights I think GSP can take down and GnP Silva. He may not be able to mimic the exact gameplan but I think he can take the fight to the ground and keep Silva on his back. I think GSP will go about it much like he does other strikers that he doesn’t want to mix it up with. I compared GSP and Chael only because they’ve both used takedowns and top control to negate their opponents striking. GSP doesn’t rely on takedowns and GnP for his only offense though like Chael. I do think that he is skilled enough to time his takedowns against Silva.
I am aware that a rematch with Silva and Sonnen could very easily end with another submission but you can’t deny that he could very likely win. Only thing that will stop him is if he makes a mistake.
Only thing that will stop him is if he makes a mistake.
He has made so many mistakes that made him lose via submission in his career.
- Note, Silva is good for saying odd things. He believed Machida beat Rua for 5 rounds in their first fight. He appeared to look for the submission often.
- Surely GSP will be able to secure the takedown against Anderson Silva. Lutter, Henderson, Marquardt, Leites, practically everybody except Cote, Demian Maia(who happened to easily take down Sonnen) and submit him. I’m just saying GSP vs Silva will not look like Silva vs Sonnen. Not even close. People love to state that Chael Sonnen outlined the path towards a victory. No, he was just the only guy able to secure a number of takedowns. Being able to do it on paper and executing are two different things.
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
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VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Feb 14, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
Sonnen is far more Mark Coleman (with less brutal GnP) than GSP, and Sonnen will likely lose again, in much the same way, because of his idiotic refusal to train BJJ in modern MMA.
GSP on the other hand would likely win IMO. He has a better MMA Wrestling game than Sonnen does, would constantly work to pass and is highly unlikely to get submitted by Anderson.
Having said that, if he is so foolish and to try to stand with Anderson for any length of time, he probably gets KTFO.
Then again, knowing Anderson though, he might change things up and come in with some Wing Chun chain punching of something in the opening minute when he normally has his feeling out process…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 14, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
sonnen i am sure trains bjj no matter what he says.
But I can tell by the way he acts he doesn’t “get” bjj.
If you don’t have a good guard, you wont be as good at passing as you could be if you had a good guard. Some wrestlers just can’t make the switch. They are like a turtle on their back and their passing suffers. I feel like that is where sonnen is.
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Feb 14, 2011 1:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You are probably right, and
some of those here more knowledgeable about BJJ nuances that I am (such as yourself, an instructor IIRC) probably noticed a lot more of the defensive movements and hand/arm placement that Sonnen did at various times than I did.
I agree about the wrestlers part, and I suspect that even for those who have added a fairly high level BJJ for MMA aspect to their game (like GSP), because it is not instinctive like it is for the top BJJ-first guys, in the heat of the moment in provides openings for those who can seize them. This is why I would not at all be surprised if GSP were submitted by Shields with something Jake grabs during a scramble when he is thinking BJJ first and GSP is not.
Have you watched Jones/Vera fairly closely?
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 14, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
yes. yes and yes
I got 55.00 on shields it pays out at +400.
And vera blew his only shot at victory. Jon gave him an armbar, but he didn’t see it or was scared to go for it. Vera too is a wrestler first. Idk if that has anything to do with it or if was just used to not having to worry about getting hit from guard (vera is 6’3) but jon could reach further than everyone else, And wanted to really stretch him out/break him down before he went for a sub.
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Feb 14, 2011 3:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Not that you can really believe what a fighter says after the fact but Jones said he was leaving his arm out there on purpose trying to get Vera to react a predictable way to counter with something they game planned.
I thought that I
recalled something similar to that, part of what made me ask.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 15, 2011 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
LOL LOL!!!
Gotta rec this shit, it’s complete blasphemy to say such things!!!
by SentientAndroid on Feb 14, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
Jeez, Mr. Snowden another article for Fedor? He probably used some dark Russian magic when you met.
Even if they fire Joe Rogan and hire Mauro, I doubt you will make 3 articles in a row.
I don’t think this is an article about Fedor….
by Jonathan Snowden on Feb 14, 2011 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
This isn’t really an article about just Fedor. I totally agree with you on BJ Penn. Yes, I acknowledge that he loss to Frankie Edgar and will be smothered Jon Fitch in Australia . . . but I just don’t remember it in my mind’s eye. I see the young, fasterm brash kid who was ready and willing to throw down with anybody, including fighters that weighed 20lbs. heavier than his normal weight limit.
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
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VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Feb 14, 2011 10:47 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think he bests Fitch and establishes himself as one of the greatest of all time. Long reigning lightweight King and second best to ever fight at 170 means p4p greatness no doubt.
by Spider_Vemon on Feb 14, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
If Penn defeats Fitch he will definitely go down as top LW fighter and #2 welterweight. Yeah that’s fair.
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
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VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Feb 14, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
There’s no way he’s the second best welterweight. Come on.
by Jonathan Snowden on Feb 14, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
We have to agree that Jon Fitch with his record is definitely the best welterweight not named GSP. If Penn can convincingly stop Fitch . . . I’ll give him props. #2 may be an exaggeration but I’ll never forget that he defeated Matt Hughes before it became the fashionable thing to do. Styles makes fights and I just don’t see Penn’s skills and styles defeating the top tier of the welterweight division. His body frame just doesn’t match up against Fitch, Alves and the big wrestlers of the division.
I was just going along with Spider Venom.
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
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VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Feb 14, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah I just look at it as if you best the two other likely choices for that spot (barring a jake shields miracle) then that spot is yours.
by Spider_Vemon on Feb 14, 2011 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
Matt Hughes and GSP are the best welterweights of all time. Period.
If you mean he is the second best welterweight in 2011? I could buy that if he beats Fitch.
by Jonathan Snowden on Feb 14, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I’d like to hear an argument that this isn’t the case. If it rests on Penn beating a past his prime Hughes last year, you might as well save the words.
by Jonathan Snowden on Feb 14, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
No.
It rests on the fact that they fought twice with Hughes in his prime and Penn not quite peaked and in much worse physical shape than Hughes. And Penn pretty much Dominating Hughes in all aspects in both fights until an untimely 3rd round gassing/broken rib. Penn was the better fighter then better fighter now. His talent is simply better than Hughes talent. Penn has long been known to not live up to his talent but the fact remains he’s only fought the absolute best at WW and hasn’t done quite bad. A win over Fitch pretty much locks it up for me.
by Spider_Vemon on Feb 14, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
I am not trying to discredit Matt Hughes or your opinion and I can see your point of view as well. But to me it’s just not there. Hughes did great but there was always 2 guys better than him, it just took time for it to show.
by Spider_Vemon on Feb 14, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
Hughes was the champion for two years before he ever fought Penn. TWO YEARS! Then came back from the loss to Penn and held the title for another two years, beating BJ in the process.
Even if you concede Penn got the better of him in their individual feud, it doesn’t change the fact that Hughes had two dominant runs as champion.
by Jonathan Snowden on Feb 14, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
Once again
different points of view. Hughes has had the better career at 170 but he isnt the better fighter. Not then not now. Not ever.
by Spider_Vemon on Feb 14, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
I think your crack pipe is obstructing your vision.
by truck on Feb 14, 2011 11:37 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Yeah
and who hasen’t lost to gsp? Hughes is great but honestly Penn would have (in my opinion) ruled WW just like Hughes had he fought in WW and not LW
He’s 3-3 all time as a welterweight. Over his career! That’s it. It’s ludicrous to even discuss him as one of the best welterweights of all time.
by Jonathan Snowden on Feb 14, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
But...
look at the competition he faced before you make that statement.
My favorite K1 fighter:
Yuta Kubo the best 70kg striker in the world.
by Untitled_Artistry on Feb 14, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
Let's see how he handles Fitch.
Kinda like Randy, Penn fought nothing but top competition in the WW division.
Oh he'll handle Fitch.
This Fitch talk is so similar when BJ was about to square off against Deigo.
All the critics said that BJ can’t fight at the work rate of Deigo. His wrestling is just too good, hell get BJ down and grind him out.
And that clearly did not happen.
My favorite K1 fighter:
Yuta Kubo the best 70kg striker in the world.
by Untitled_Artistry on Feb 14, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
I conveniently forgot about that.
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Feb 14, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah but...
how long did he keep him there?
Did he grind him out and pass his guard and rain ground and pound?
My favorite K1 fighter:
Yuta Kubo the best 70kg striker in the world.
by Untitled_Artistry on Feb 14, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
He kept him there for extended periods and punched him in the face repeatedly.
Fitch’s game isn’t about guard passing, it is about maintaining position and dropping elbows.
Oh really
simliar to GSP’s gameplan right?
You lying to yourself if Fitch is gonna get him down and keep him their most of the fight. B/c if i remember i didn’t drop elbows on Ben Saunder’s nor did he against Alves. He bullied them up against the cage and worked his trip takedown. Both of those 2 got back up to their feet but didn’t let their striking go. BJ’s not gonna be held on the ground by Fitch any longer than Frankie held him down, and that once no more than 20-30 sec.
My favorite K1 fighter:
Yuta Kubo the best 70kg striker in the world.
by Untitled_Artistry on Feb 14, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
Do you remember that one time That Matt Hughes lost to more people at his natural weight class than Penn did at his?
by Spider_Vemon on Feb 14, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
Penn's accomplishments at LW
have nothing to do with his ranking a WW
Your argument is beyond silly.
I am done.
by truck on Feb 14, 2011 11:53 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
But wait you can bring up his defeats at lightweight and they are some how relevant to this? Ok you’re logical. Peace.
by Spider_Vemon on Feb 14, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
Getting taken down by a natural FW
does make sense when discussing his chances of being taken down by a large WW.
Winning or losing at LW has zero to do with WW rankings.
Superman wrestler Gray Maynard got taken down and slammed on his ass by the same natural FW. Edgar is just really good.
by Spider_Vemon on Feb 14, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah but how was he taken down?
Frankie did what?
He shot in for the take down, after mixing it up very well with faints, punches, and kicks.
I just don’t see Mr. Fitch doing any of that well enough against BJ.
My favorite K1 fighter:
Yuta Kubo the best 70kg striker in the world.
by Untitled_Artistry on Feb 14, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
I believe there is a very good chance
that Fitch can and will take down Penn, just like he has to everybody else ever who’s name isn’t GSP.
If it doesn’t happen, good on Penn.
Penn has been taken down by Hughes and GSP at WW and Edgar at LW. He isn’t IMPOSSIBLE to take down.
I really don’t understand how anybody could argue that there is NO WAY that Fitch will take down and grind out Penn.
Its possible. I just think like Florian, Fitch will get tagged early and get hurt and it will be all bj from there. Fitch is a slow starter too he often gives up the first round.
by Spider_Vemon on Feb 14, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
Your right.
it is possible to take BJ down. But at only by shooting in for the takedown. Fitch has sloppy double legs. GSP, and Hughes are amazing at timing their distance for the shoot.
I just can’t see Fitch getting him down.
My favorite K1 fighter:
Yuta Kubo the best 70kg striker in the world.
by Untitled_Artistry on Feb 14, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
Thats what Ive been screaming since this fight was announced. Fitch has great top control but his double leg is shit.
by Spider_Vemon on Feb 14, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
That's a bitch toss
They made a video game about Yakuzas. It’s called Yakuza. And it’s about Yakuza
gocyborg.wordpress.com
Right,
and much more representative of what Fitch is likely to do than trying to shoot for doubles…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 14, 2011 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
Really...
doesn’t show how long he was down their.
Im guessing what 20-30 sec tops.
My favorite K1 fighter:
Yuta Kubo the best 70kg striker in the world.
by Untitled_Artistry on Feb 14, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
BJ's gonna give Joe Rogan a boner
by throwing up ineffective rubberguard for 15 minutes.
by Bombadilillo on Feb 14, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
ineffective rubberguard for 15 minutes.
Wow, that’s a bold statement to make?
My favorite K1 fighter:
Yuta Kubo the best 70kg striker in the world.
by Untitled_Artistry on Feb 14, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
I
If you think rubber guard from BJ penn or any BJJ blackbelt especially a world champion blackbelt is ineffective youre fucking high. Just because it doesnt translate into an OMFG submission doesnt make it ineffective. When in rubber guard that shit is constantly a concern on your mind.
by Spider_Vemon on Feb 14, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
Oh so hes going to use it to control
Fitch? Cause Fitch wants to do so much more then sit there waiting out the clock…
by Bombadilillo on Feb 14, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
Really...
b/c i haven’t seen him do more than that in his last couple of fights.
My favorite K1 fighter:
Yuta Kubo the best 70kg striker in the world.
by Untitled_Artistry on Feb 14, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
No hes going to use his TDD to keep it standing against Fitch’s weak Take downs. Sorry but Fitchs strength is his Top control not his take downs, his shot is sloppy and BJ will eat it up en route to tagging fitches oversized head. :)
by Spider_Vemon on Feb 14, 2011 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
Look at who he’s faced. Im sure he could beat up a bunch of lower to mid level WWs to pad his record but why do that when all that matters is how u did against the best. Who wants to see Phil Mickelson play against David Duvall when he can play Ernie Eles and Tiger Woods in match play?
by Spider_Vemon on Feb 14, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
GSP and Hughes
are the losses and he has 2 wins over one of them. What if bj beats Fitch and Thiago can then say #2 all-time cause the his record is 5-3 but that isnt much better this is where the numbers lie and you have to look at quality
Its just a quantity thing
to be considered the #2 all time he would have to have more wins over top-10 guys at WW to even be in the conversation.
Hell, if BJ beats Fitch, which I for one doubt, but if he does he will have the same number of WW fights (4-3) as Hughes has WW title defenses…
I realize it is a very “what have you done today for me” kink of era, but no matter how talented BJ is, or that he might have had Hughes’ number personally, there is no way he becomes #2 all time without more top-10 WW wins.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 14, 2011 1:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Similar to Alistair and K-1
While Alistair may not have a great K-1 record and was an MMA fighter he has an unbelievable talent and didn’t need to focus solely on kickboxing to become champion. Bj has talent that allows him to change weight classes with ease just because he didnt fight strictly at WW dosen’t mean he shouldn’t be up for the discussion especially considering of all his rounds with hughes he has only lost one and that was with a broken rib. Should bj lose to fitch the argument ends there but if he wins then he opens up a whole new can of worms.
Oh no, now the obligatory “so were the Buffalo Bills not a great team?” argument will break out.
Penn’s three WW losses are to who most list as the top two WWs of all time. (and the first GSP fight could have gone either way)
by troutki on Feb 14, 2011 4:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Take into account that he has only fought top WW competition and the majority of his career has been at a diff weight class. his three losses were 2 to the undisputed greatest WW ever with one of those being razor thin and the 3rd being to Hughes who got dominated until rd 3. The win comes over hughes who was prime and considered unstoppable at the time. another win over the current undisputed #2 ranked WW further cements that he may be the 2nd best fighter to ever compete at 170.
by Spider_Vemon on Feb 14, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
Penn could be in the argument for greatest w.w
Matt Hughes and gsp are unquestionably the most accomplished W.W. of all time.
Bj is a headcase that is more skilled in almost every facet of fighting. Bj was born to fight.
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Feb 14, 2011 12:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Im not saying he didnt. But he was getting worked over until the decisive round. The better fighter doesnt always win the fight. I mean, Matt Serra busted up GSP but I dont see anyone saying he’s better cause he’s not.
by Spider_Vemon on Feb 14, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
Styles make fights...
So what if Penn was a bad matchup for Hughes. It still didn’t get him to better than 1 – 1 when they were both still prime.
Hughes was a bad matchup for everybody else.
So basically you’re admitting that Penn is better than Hughes.
by Spider_Vemon on Feb 14, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
Nope.
Penn is STILL arguably the most dominant WW of all time.
His record of 41 – 4 with wins over pretty much everyone who ever mattered is STILL arguably the most impressive run anyone had this side of Fedor.
lol I know its a typo but
Still funny.
by Spider_Vemon on Feb 14, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
Penn
not living up to his potential is his own falut and shouldn’t be valued when speaking of his greatness especially when compared to his peers, thou I agree a win over fitch may put him as a lock for #2 ww of all-time. He dosent have to beat gsp but a win over thiago also should do it for anyone who isnt convinced he should be #2 ww all-time.
by Julio G on Feb 14, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hughes still has more WW title defenses that GSP
Recent loss to Penn doesn’t matter Hughes is still definitely in the top 2 and arguable still the most dominant WW ever.
You mean overall WW title defenses and not just defenses for one individual title reign?
by Spider_Vemon on Feb 14, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
Note, personally I thought BJ Penn was always a stylistic problem for Matt Hughes and it showed in their 2nd fight.
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
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VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Feb 14, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
I am glad you mention Montana and Jordan
Because those guys could compete and be awesome now, as Fedor could, if not for age.
by silent.bisonte33 on Feb 14, 2011 10:43 AM EST reply actions
Great article
I really enjoyed this.
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
by dedstrk316 on Feb 14, 2011 10:43 AM EST via mobile reply actions
It’s a glorious time, an era where everyone is well rounded,
Snowden, respectfully, I beg to differ.
There are a number of guys who are considered “well rounded” but they’re just not good or lack other things like heart, and intestinal fortitude. I think it is going to be really difficult for future fighters to be able to put it all together. In my opinion there are less really well rounded fighters that are really good in a number of disciplines. One fighter that I’m particularly thinking about that’s usually touted as well-rounded that falls short is Nate Marquardt.
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
Well rounded alone isn't enough
Which I think is what you are getting at anyway. Well rounded AND elite in something is what is needed, like Cain, JDS or Overeem at HW. Carwin might be too, haven’t seen enough of his MMA Wrestling to say, in addition to his gas tank issue…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 14, 2011 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
Wow very nice article. Enjoyed the read.
by dreamers_12345 on Feb 14, 2011 10:46 AM EST reply actions
I just want to use this moment...
…to say how amazed I am that Randy Couture started his MMA career at about the age Fedor became “too old for this shit.” I’m not trying to diminish Fedor in any way – just saying that all of this makes me realize just how special Randy is.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
Posted this in another thread so I'll reuse it
He’s had 35 fights though, including Combat Sambo, Judo and with all those comes training camps so his body is gonna have some wear and teat. Randy hasn’t had as many fights and his fighting style didn’t really lend to him getting too damaged through his career.
Food goes in here
by Pandanus on Feb 14, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Not only does Fedor have more fights under his belt than Couture (which is one of the most important factors in a fighter’s career diminishing), his MMA record doesn’t countl the 17 Sambo tournaments that he has fought nor does it count his 5 Judo tournaments. Add all that up and that is a LOT of wear and tear. I think Fedor’s lack of elite level conditioning is making him “age” faster as well.
Fedor’s 6th place showing in the 2010 Sambo competition (by far his worst showing out of 17 tournaments) in hindsight is pretty telling.
Werdum beat Fedor, Dos Santos beat Werdum, Joaquim Ferreira beat Dos Santos. Therefore Ferreira is WAAAAY better than Fedor. Keep MMA math alive!
Just to respond to both of you:
It’s not like Randy spent his non MMA time playing patty-cake. Right?
And I don’t think it’s the wear-and-tear that’s dragging Fedor down (though you’re welcome to think so), I think it’s the natural slowing of his reflexes. He’s always gotten by in fights against bigger, stronger, and even more technical opponents by being quicker to react. I think this is just time – not damage – catching up with him.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
Olympic Wrestling training > Sambo
I’ll buy the MMA fights argument but none of this Judo and Sambo crap. Randy had been wrsetling non-stop his entire life up until he got into MMA. Wrestling is definitely more physically taxing than Sambo and Judo where you let your opponents up after dropping them.
by IWillPartyHard on Feb 14, 2011 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
combat sambo is just about mma with a gi and head gear.
And judo is as rough or rougher on your body than any other combat art. A high nippon throw will seperate you from your sense for sure. I don’t think you know much about either art.
I don’t think using Randy as a bench mark is fair to anyone and it discounts how physically gifted he is.
How about mark coleman and mark kerr? Where are they at?
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Feb 14, 2011 4:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
*Ippon
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Feb 14, 2011 4:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Do you know anything about wrestling?
Especially Olympic level wrestling? I trained Judo, and I have watched plenty of Sambo videos, and neither are as physically taxing competition as wrestling. Nobody needs to take my word for it though, just watch competition videos of all 3 and judge for yourself. Fedor isn’t Randy, which means he ages like a normal human.
by IWillPartyHard on Feb 14, 2011 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
Saku
Good inclusion. I think your reasoning in this article is why I still see Saku as goat, while a lot of people who didn’t see that stuff in it’s time just think “Man, he lost a lot”. I don’t even consider things like the shellacking by Melvin. The only reason I think of his brutal destruction via Wand is what it meant to Wand’s career, not Kazushi.
Legends should be remembered for what made them legendary, not what knocked them off the precipice simply because EVERYONE will eventually be knocked off. Not everyone is a legend.
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
I like the sentiment expressed in these articles but the histrionic way they are phrased seems so overblown to me.
To save me some time on 25% of all threads, here's the universal answer to the Fedor-debate: Fedor is the most accomplished MMA fighter ever. That is a fact. If he still is the best fighter at this point in time is up for debate.
Some people just hate beautiful things….
by Jonathan Snowden on Feb 14, 2011 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
While others just love to indulge in aggrandizing language. It’s like showboating during a fight: some people love it when a fighter does that, others don’t. :)
To save me some time on 25% of all threads, here's the universal answer to the Fedor-debate: Fedor is the most accomplished MMA fighter ever. That is a fact. If he still is the best fighter at this point in time is up for debate.
if fedor wishes to quit i wish him the best but having said that. i think he could still make a comeback he has 3 fights left on his contract 2 revenge fights and one more fight with the reem. if he really trains hard he could do it.
So by SF booking standards...
He’ll be challenging for Reem’s title when the tourney is over?
Basically yeah. Coker is already talking about bringing him back as an alternate. You know cause he’s not going to make any money if SupremeReem losses too.
by Spider_Vemon on Feb 14, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
A few million dollars for Kharitonov to say his hand broke on Arlovskis jaw and is in need of intensive recovery time? Hope that it doesnt play out that way but cant say I’d be surprised if it did…
by Spider_Vemon on Feb 14, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
Fedor could still fight at the highest levels, with
his heart and general fight IQ as well as his speed and chin, but only if he completely changes things, both revamping his training and adding tape analysis and game planning to what he does.
Add some serious strength training which, if he really hasn’t been doing it previously, would result in some pretty rapid gains over a few months, even at his age.
Do that, then spend 6 months or so training with Jackson’s or AKA and see what he can become in the modern era…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 14, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
I tend to agree,
and I don’t think MMA means enough to Fedor (even with 2 straight losses) to completely change his life up like this would require when he can retire comfortably as it is.
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 14, 2011 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
...and if Werdum wins we get the Werdum / Big Foot rematch that everybody has been begging for.
Plus, Fedor has earned two title shots since he is coming off back to back loses.
I see that
as the only way Fedor comes back. Then if he won that fight they could easily sell a fight of him against the tournament winner.
by IWillPartyHard on Feb 14, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
This is my favorite article I've read on BE so far
"We all think we're the best. That's why we're fighters." - Frankie Edgar
by crazybones on Feb 14, 2011 11:14 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Loved the article but
Nick Diaz is still banging. Until he falls I will always have hope!
Jack: They’re all dead? Christian: Everyone dies sometime. Some of them before you, some of them long after you. Jack: Why are they here now? Christian: There is no now, here. Jack: Where are we now? Christian: This is a place that you all made together so you could find one another. The most important time of your life was when you were with these people. That’s why you are all here. No one does it alone Jack. You needed all of them and they needed you. Jack: For what? Christian: To remember and to let go. Jack: Kate, she said we were leaving. Christian: Not leaving, no, moving on. Jack: Where are we going. Christian: Lets go find out.
Jordan, Griffey, Montana
and you can add today, the incomparable Ronaldo…
by Dootch on Feb 14, 2011 12:02 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Yeah but it is literally standing on one leg. Haha!
by Spider_Vemon on Feb 14, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
Shogun vs Bones hinges on who gets off first
Watching the Bader fight again Jones seems really tenitive at times where a veteran might have jumped in and swung with Bones talents and athletics.
If Bones can unleash what hes got and not let shogun dictate the pace he can win. If shogun goes in and uses his experience and precise striking it could be a short night for bones. Right now I would give shogun the edge just because Jones looks so fresh compared to a vet like Shogun.
Shogun SHOULD beat Jones
But, nobody knows how good Jones is yet. I just cant see Jones defending if shogun decides to walk through him like Machida2. Turn it into a brawl basically. But theres no telling what Jones can do so I think its a completely uncallable fight.
by Bombadilillo on Feb 14, 2011 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
walked through?
Did you watch Machida vs Shogun 2? Or just the finish? Machida made a tactical error and paid dearly for it but by no means was he getting worked over up until that point. Machida was landing strikes using distance and scoring take downs, to that point he was winning the fight though it was a short lived fight.
by Spider_Vemon on Feb 14, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
The fight ended quick when Shogun decided to walk forward constantly. Thats what I’m refering too. Machida has leaping in, Jones has scary reach. I’m saying that same thing could happen to Jones…
by Bombadilillo on Feb 14, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
Its funny
Around the birth of MMA me and my friends used to say. (insert martial arts here) weakness was running up and punching them in the face. Take Kung Fu, negated by running up and punching them in the face. A little simplified but you see the point. Its ironic that Machida’s ever illusive style was beatin by more or less shogun running up and punching him the face.
by Bombadilillo on Feb 14, 2011 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
Machida was landing strikes using distance and scoring take downs, to that point he was winning the fight though it was a short lived fight.
While this is true at that point, shortly before the finish Rua had corrected a flaw Machida discovered studying tape of the first fight (his tendency to drop his right hand near his waist as he kicked). Machida connected the first 2 times, but the 3rd time he tried it, Shogun blocked it.
Also, while Machida got the better of him in the clinch in both fights, and took him down several times, his weak top control + Shogun’s great bottom game (for getting up/reversing) = Machida unable to keep him down at all.
Won’t be an issue for Jones, but…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 14, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
that cocky narc is a wrecking machine.
That shit does not look good for shogun.
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Feb 14, 2011 1:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think his hesitancy had more to do with caution than anything. Once he knew Bader couldn’t take him down and he could take Bader down at will, there was no reason to take any unnecessary risks.
The Shogun fight is different because neither guy has fought anyone remotely like his opponent in any real way. In addition to the skillset and experience level of Rua, this will be the first time Jones has faced someone with speed somewhat comparable to his.
I suspect after the first minute or two it will be a very one-sided fight one way or the other, and while I expect it to be Jones who wins, for the first time in his career it would not surprise me if he lost…
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -Mark Twain
by The American Ronin on Feb 14, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
This is possibly one of the best pieces you’ve written, Snowden. Loved it.
by Confucius on Feb 14, 2011 12:09 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Sorry, thought I was logging onto Bloody Elbow, not Fedor.com
I’ll leave quietly…
by theworldismine on Feb 14, 2011 12:39 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Come back in about 2 weeks when the Penn/Fitch hype rises
They made a video game about Yakuzas. It’s called Yakuza. And it’s about Yakuza
gocyborg.wordpress.com
by Krimson on Feb 14, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
What if Shogun beats Jon Jones???
Isn’t this talk a little premature?
I wasn’t around for the Pride glory days but Shogun was clearly one of the incredible fighters of that era wasn’t he? He only lost once in Pride, when he broke his arm during a takedown attempt from Mark Coleman.
He is only 29 and if he can get by Jones, he could possibly be the champ for years to come. I wrote a fan post about this yesterday. I think that the era is being ushered out too quickly.
I guess I was just lying to myself
I did not want the generation of fighters i grew up watching to ever fade. But, they all must “Leave” for a new generation to live. But, I have one last hope left in Shogun.
he lost a fight, get over it.
you dont see this kinda reaction for other fighter that go on a 2 fight losing streak eh?
by Simon West on Feb 14, 2011 1:29 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
HAHA I KNOW RIGHT?
Im pretty sure when Machida lost to Rampage it was a collective, Eh he’ll win the next one.
by Spider_Vemon on Feb 14, 2011 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
Pretty sure you didn’t read the article. Now I have to demand a book report or I’m sending you to reform school.
by Jonathan Snowden on Feb 14, 2011 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
I dont think he was talking about the article
just the level of Fedorism posts on BE the past few days. It is really a great piece you’ve wrote here Snowden.
by Spider_Vemon on Feb 14, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
Yea it is kinda redundant
Not slandering the post it’s just I stopped coming here for a lil bit. I’d much rather read about Anotonio Silvas potential in the tournament or Chad Griggs and roc’in the ill pok sideburns. Who can rocs em better than Chad Griggs?
They made a video game about Yakuzas. It’s called Yakuza. And it’s about Yakuza
gocyborg.wordpress.com
Ken Griffey Junior, once the vibrant young spark leading a baseball resurgence, reduced to a bench player, his bat no longer blazing at unprecedented speeds.
Not a baseball fan, huh Snowden?
by John Danaher's Hair on Feb 14, 2011 1:45 PM EST reply actions
This piece is another provocative one
The sport has evolved and there are new heroes to salute. Cain Velasquez, Edgar, and Georges St. Pierre are leading a new breed of fighters into the future. It’s a glorious time, an era where everyone is well rounded, not just an immortal few.
When are you people are going to stop with hero worship? Cain has not even defended his title once but you put him in the same sentence as GSP, one of the best fighters of all time, and Edgar, who has beaten BJ Penn, a true legend, twice? Seriously now.
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
Not sold on Velasquez either. Still can’t get the memories of him getting rocked 20 times by Kongo out of my head. I’d leave GSP in there and Edgar as a promising new star.
"Referees, be sure to step in and stop the fight on time tomorrow, because I might get carried away in the moment and my many punches may end up destroying my opponent." - Tatsuya "CRUSHER" Kawajiri
It's not about the matter of being sold
It’s that he has done nothing. Why name him in the same sentence as GSP. Even Edgar. Edgar does not belong in that list. He almost got destroyed by Maynard in his last fight. Let’s wait and see if Cain can defend his title more than twice.
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Feb 14, 2011 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
agreed. Wish it wasn’t so long away from JDS give Cain his best shot.
by Bombadilillo on Feb 14, 2011 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
I saw that post this afternoon. It was a very good fanpost.
For anyone interested. A nice post with a similar theme.
by Jonathan Snowden on Feb 14, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
It is truly the end of a great era.
I dont know if you saw the fan post earlier by ‘howstastemypeepee’ claiming to know Rich Franklin’s plans after his next fight, but it sounds to me like another one bites the dust.. soon. All I can say is i hope this next crop delivers cause i need cheering up soon.
by ODBasyoucansee on Feb 14, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
I have to run faster and faster just to stay in the same spot
Fedor and BJ Penn are prime examples of what happens these days if you insulate yourself in your own training camp. The sport is evolving so fast that mma years are now the equivalent of dog years. Train with the best and chase the cutting edge or perish.
"This fight will be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I've been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious." Randall "Tex" Cobb
by Craven Moorehead on Feb 14, 2011 2:39 PM EST reply actions
how many "Fedor is stll great" posts will we be subjected to on here...
It looks like the writers on this site are knocking each down trying to post as many “Fedor is still great” posts in the last 48 hours. Seriously, mmafighting has had ONE post regarding Fedor since the loss.
I am a fan of mma and I have enjoyed watching Fedor, but he does not deserve the demigod status this site projects on him. Its becoming sickening.
The fact is 14 straight wins in the UFC (Silva) all over top 5 competition is equally as impressive as 28 straight over bums, cans, blown up middleweights and professional wrestlers. Yes, its true and I do admit that Fedor found time during this streak to actually fight a couple of top 5 opponents (Cro Cop, Nogueria) and the wins were impressive. The fact is when we compare his record against top 5 competition his record is not worth demigod status. As a matter of fact, its not nearly as good as Anderson Silvas.
If Fedor had gone to the UFC and finished his career 2-2 against the best in the world, he would be regarded as the best by everyone, if for no other reason than the fact that the UFC machine would have spent 2 years telling everyone he was the greatest. 2 losses against the likes of Lesnar, Velazquez, Dos Santos, Carwin et al is not something that would have been nearly as damaging as Werdum and Bigfoot. Their respective wins over Fedor does not make them someone they are not. Werdum is still a UFC throwaway, 10-15 calibre heavyweight. Ranking him in the top 3 because of one win is absolutely ridiculous. He would fare the same if he returned to the UFC tomorrow. As for Silva, I don’t remember anyone talking about how great he was after his loss to Werdum.
It just makes me sick to hear people all of a sudden claiming they knew all a long Silva would be a mismatch for Fedor. If everyone knew this, why was he such an underdog? Bigfoot Silva will never be anything more than EliteXC Champ. If that’s top 5, then I will stop watching MMA now.
Reality is that no matter who wins this tournament, they will be no better than a fringe top 10. Overeem I am willing to say top 7-8. Barnett is a roid addict that does not deserve to fight for and/or even be ranked by any US promotion. The rest of the cast are 10+ fighters, at best.
As much as I like Fedor (and I truly do – I just don’t consider him an mma god) – and as much as I would have enjoyed seeing him continue to go undefeated, its the best thing that could have happened. Maybe now SF can actually attempt to build a solid promotion without M1 dragging them down and wanting their name on everything. Maybe now showtime can air fights without having to worry about M1 pulling their fighter if showtime doesn’t agree to air M1 challenge events. Maybe now Coker will stop trying to setup fights he thinks are going to end the way he wants and just start booking the fights people want to see.
The biggest loser saturday night is the SF tournament. Everyone thought they were going to get a Fedor vs Werdum/Overeem match and now we are left with Bigfoot vs Werdum/Overeem. I have already watched one and the other isn’t thay appealing. What else does this tourny have to offer? Nothing. No one cares about anyone else in it…including Barnett. The ratings for this tourny will drop faster than a hookers panties on a friday night after a 12 pack. No one outside the hardcores (me) will bother to watch from here on out. This fact will push Coker to make another boneheaded decision and try to put Fedor back into the tourny, will crush any idea of credibility the winner ever had a chance at.
In the end, there is reason to mourn and its not the loss of a “great”. The mourning will be over SF 2011 World Heavyweight Grand Prix Winner Sergei Kharitonov. 4300 people will watch him win the title from Bigfoot Silva because Coker will make another boneheaded decision and actually try to sell that final match on ppv… Which 4300 for Silva vs Kharitonov on ppv may actually be respectable numbers. Seriously, if Overeem wins, he is suppose to at this point. As for anyone else – no one really cares.
by TREY JACKSON on Feb 14, 2011 2:49 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Seriously, mmafighting has had ONE post regarding Fedor since the loss.
Are you being serious? Clicking over there I see three posts by Ben Fowlkes alone in the last two days with Fedor in the headline.
by Jonathan Snowden on Feb 14, 2011 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
For every kind of post you complaining about....
There’s one just like yours so please save us the crap. EVERYONE that Fedor fought was a mismatch, we loved him because he climbed insurmountable odds every time he stepped in a ring. That being said, ill still watch the HWGP. Did you even see the rest of the show? If you were to turn the sound off, it kicked ass (lol)! Why would you not care about anyone else in the tourney except for Overeem, and how do you know Coker doesn’t intent to let this play out like he said he would? One more quick thing, please restrain yourself before calling a fighter a “steroid addict”. Im not a big JB fan, and we all know hes pissed hot before but i think what you say is a gross exaggeration.
by ODBasyoucansee on Feb 14, 2011 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
You did this on a mobile phone?
Dayumn
They made a video game about Yakuzas. It’s called Yakuza. And it’s about Yakuza
gocyborg.wordpress.com
The fractions here are approximate but about 1/3 of this post makes vauge sense, 1/3 is totally factually innaccurate, and 1/3 of this post is on bad acid. I’ll just cover some of the blatant innaccuracies:
The fact is 14 straight wins in the UFC (Silva) all over top 5 competition…
13 wins in the UFC and they include Chris Leben, Travis Lutter, and James Irvin. No one reasonable questions that Anderson Silva has had an amazing career and is one of the all time greats but let’s try to stick near reality.
…as 28 straight over bums, cans, blown up middleweights and professional wrestlers.
I’m not going to hijack a discussion about an article that’s not even about Fedor to play apologist for his resume, but suffice it to say that he is without a doubt the greatest MMA HW of all time, and was for a large portion of his career the greatest MMA fighter the sport had yet seen. Obviously, his hitlist is padded with a bunch of totally unnecessary fodder, but If you run down his history fight by fight, with context of the status of those fighters and the HW division at the time, it paints a much more impressive picture than your revisionist re-creation.
Reality is that no matter who wins this tournament, they will be no better than a fringe top 10. Overeem I am willing to say top 7-8. Barnett is a roid addict that does not deserve to fight for and/or even be ranked by any US promotion. The rest of the cast are 10+ fighters, at best.
I put little stock in MMA rankings, and you’re welcome rank guys however you want, but going into this tournament, USA Today/SB Nation had:
3.Fedor
4.Werdum
7.Overeem
10.Antonio Silva
11.Josh Barnett
12.Brett Rogers
17.Andrei Arlovski
Kharitonov not ranked
Sherdog had:
3.Werdum
4.Fedor
8.Overeem
10.Silva
Other contenders: Barnett
MMA Weekly:
2.Werdum
3.Fedor
6.Overeem
10.Silva
So you’re going to tell me in a tournament where probably 7 guys are already top 20, and probably 4 are already top 10, that the guy who beats 3 of those guys couldn’t possibly be better than fringe top 10? And before you start arguing that those rankings are bull, which they might well be, you would have to explain to me the actual fighters you would find in the super thin HW division to go above such a theoretical tournament winner.
Snowden...
I read daily and never comment… took me ten minutes to go find my friggin’ login information just to post this.
Thanks for writing this article. You have captured a lot of emotions and truths about heroes “dying” in a great way. It’ll need to be updated in the future as we watch a few other of our legends decline but thank you for posting this, even if for sentimental guys like me.
Long Live MMA!
by Boondock Video on Feb 14, 2011 3:00 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Tremendous article Jon.
And fuck the Cain hate too. It’s clearly obvious the guy is the next Fedor.
by Newman24 on Feb 14, 2011 3:10 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
One of your best articles
Awesome job. Capture the feeling, for sure.
Seems like Fedor was almost fated to be the end of that era with his moniker. The Last Emperor.
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