Which Weight Class is Next?
by darkotto23 on Dec 22, 2011 5:50 PM EST
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PrintAs we all know the UFC will soon introduce a new 125lbs division. This announcement got me thinking, as more and more fighters join the UFC they will inevitably have to add new weight classes right? So, which weight class will be next?
As of right now there are 8 different weight classes with a total of over 302 fighters under contract in the UFC. The last thing any of us want is for MMA to become like boxing and have a ridiculous amount of weight classes. I personally am fine with the current weight classes, but I wouldn’t mind seeing the introduction of one or two new weight classes in the near future.
Well, the whole point of this fanpost is to see what you guys think about adding another weight class in the future. After thinking about it for a while I came up with 4 different options.
Option #1 – Introducing a 115lbs division (Stawweight or Minimumweight)
I’ll be the first to tell you that I don’t know too much about the littlest guys (anything below 135), but if I’ve learned anything from boxing is that there are a ton of scrappy tiny fighters in the world. I imagine that as the UFC and MMA begins to expand globally more fighters from countries like Mexico, the Philippines, Thailand; etc will begin training in Mixed Martial Arts. I know it’s hard to think about adding yet another weight class for the little guys so soon after adding the new 125lbs division. I’m not saying that it will or it should happen, I’m just trying to see which weight class you guys think will be next.
Option #2 – Introducing a new 165lbs division and moving the welterweight limit from 170lbs to 175lbs
I’ve always wondered why the lower weight classes are divided by 10lbs while the higher weight classes are divided by 15 or 20 pounds. Doesn’t it make sense to just have all weigh classes be 10lbs apart? The lightweight division and the welterweight division are the two most stacked divisions in the UFC. There are currently over 50 lightweight fighters, and over 58 welterweight fighters under contract with the UFC. An introduction of a new 165lbs division would allow large lightweights to move up without giving up too much size, and it would also let the smaller welterweights a chance to move down without having to make an extreme weight cut. A 165lbs division would be perfect for guys like BJ Penn, Gleison Tibau, Dennis Hallman, Diego Sanchez, Nick Diaz, Nate Diaz, etc. The welterweight division would still exist but the weight limit would be changed to 175lbs making the weight cut easier for some of the larger Welterweights like Thiago Alvez, Rumble Johnson, and Jake Shields. Plus some of the smaller middleweights like Damian Maia would find a 175lbs division more inviting than a 185lbs division
Personally this is the option that makes the most sense. I’m a fan of symmetry and I would love it if the difference between weight classes were the same in all divisions. Imagine all the new interesting match-ups that this new weight division would provide? Plus since the 155 and 170 divisions are the most stacked divisions neither weight class would suffer from an introduction of a 165 division.
Option #3 – Introducing a 195lbs division (Super middleweight or Franklinweight)
There have already been a couple of catch weight fights at this weight limit, all of them involving Rich Franklin (Hence the Franklinweight name). A 195lbs division would be ideal for huge middleweights like Vitor and Yushin Okami, but more importantly it would provide the smaller light heavyweights like Shogun, Dan Henderson and the aforementioned Rich Franklin with a new weight class to reign. The whole point of weight divisions is to make fights fair, but when you have monsters like Jon Jones, Forrest Griffin, and Tito Ortiz who walk around at over 230lbs fighting guys like Rashad Evans, and Rich Franklin that likely don’t go over 215lbs you can’t really call the fight fair (or at least as fair as it could be).
As I’ve mentioned before it makes sense for weight classes to be separated by an equal amount of pounds. It seems that whenever a light heavyweight tries making the twenty pound cut to 185lbs they end up draining themselves and their performances suffer because of it (I’m looking at you James "Zombie" Irvin).
The problem with a new 195lbs weight division is the shortage of fighters fighting at 185lbs and 205lbs. Unlike the lightweight and welterweight divisions there aren’t as many fighters fighting at 205lbs. As of right now there are only 30 light heavyweight’s under contract with the UFC. That’s right there are even less light heavyweights than heavyweights (31 as of right now). Making a new weight class would benefit the smaller light heavyweights but it would leave the division a bit empty. So unless more small heavyweights start dropping down to 205 or the UFC absorbs the Strikeforce 205 division I don’t see this happening anytime soon.
Option #4 – Introducing a 225lbs division (Cruiserweight) and expanding the HW limit to 285lbs (or more).
This is the idea that has been talked about the most. In an ideal world you wouldn’t have guys like Randy Couture that barely weigh in at 225lbs fighting guys like Brock that tip the scales at over 270lbs. But as we all know the problem with this idea is the lack of heavyweights. Even with the addition of the Strikeforce heavyweights there still wouldn’t be more than 40 or 45 HW’s in the UFC.
I’m sure some of the smaller HW’s like Chieck Kongo, Joey Beltran, and Pat Barry would rather cut down to 225lbs and fight people their own size, but there simply aren’t enough huge people like Brock, and Shane to warrant a new HW division. So unless more sumo wrestlers start fighting in the UFC I doubt we will see a cruiserweight division anytime soon in the UFC.
So... thoughts? I know a lot of you are opposed to adding any new weight classes for fear of MMA becoming like boxing, but which division do you think will be added next? The way I see it one or two new divisions would make fights a bit fairer, and I bet the UFC would love to have more champions to promote.
Here are the number of current UFC fighters by weight class. (According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_UFC_fighters)
HW - 31
LHW - 30
MW - 46
WW – 58
LW – 50
FW – 46
BW – 36
FLW – 5
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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One suggestion
You may want to change your examples for the 195 lbs division considering Rashad is 2-0 against the 3 fighters you named who apparently have an advantage due to size. But other that this is well thought out and I do agree that splitting up the 155 and 170 division wouldn’t be that bad of an idea.
I get what your saying. Rashad is a top 3 LHW, but who's to say he wouldn't be #1 at 195?
It’s the same as Frankie Edgar, he is currently the #1 LW, but he is a natural 145er. I’m not saying Rashad shouldn’t fight at 205, I’m just saying he would be a natural 195er if that makes sense.
Thanks for your input though. :)
Yeah I get why you used it because he is def undersized
And the Franklin example was perfect. Rashad is just one of those few people who have found a way to deal with the size using all his other abilities.
There will be no more weightclasses for some time
The divisions that have been added were divisions that had already been established outside the UFC.
"Everyone has a plan until they’ve been hit."
~ Joe Lewis
http://worldisart365.blogspot.com/
Also where do you get 5 Flyweights?
At this point in time as far as I know there are only the 4 participants in the tournament confirmed to fight at 125lbs. A lot of people say Dodson but I garuntee he fights at 135 until he can’t compete there.
"Everyone has a plan until they’ve been hit."
~ Joe Lewis
http://worldisart365.blogspot.com/
Off the top of my head
Mighty Mouse, Joe B, McCall, Urushitani, Dodson, and Gaudinot immediately come to mind. There are plenty of guys outside of the UFC that can compete in the division though.
by discoandherpes on Dec 22, 2011 8:51 PM EST up reply actions
They signed a Brazilian by the name of John Lineker, this was reported about a week ago and it’s confirmed that he’s been asked to fight in the UFC Flyweight division (currently he is the Jungle Fights BW Champion, but is a bit undersized for that division). If anyone else has been signed they’ve kept their mouth shut about it.
The problem with have a 10 pound difference between class is that it is a proportionally large difference for smaller fighters.
I think it should go like this-
Minimumweight-115 lbs
Mini/light flyweight-120 lbs
Flyweight-125 lbs
Bantamweight-132 lbs
Super Bantamweight-139 lbs
Featherweight-146 lbs
Lightweight-153 lbs
Welterweight-163 lbs
Super Welterweight-173 lbs
Middleweight-183 lbs
Cruiserweight-193 lbs
Light heavyweight-203 lbs
Heavyweight, with no upper limit, but a maximum allowable body fat percentage.
I think that allows a more proportional difference in weight classes, without changing the current structure too terribly much. The stipulation about heavyweight body fat percentage is there because, I understand that some fighters like Daniel Cormier are more comfortable at HW, but at the same time, I want to see a fit, 225 pound heavyweight, not a flabby 250 pound one.
Arrgh, other than removing the upper limit on HW, I really don’t want to see this. One thing that makes MMA more accessible than boxing to a lot of newer fans is fewer weight divisions. It is easy to keep track of the champions, and being a world champion is something that’s very special as a result. What’s more, the newer divisions in the UFC are still looking for an audience, with only a handful of stars thus far, and only two people that can reasonably headline PPVs in Aldo and Faber.
I don't really know if that's true
I mean, GSP is a well known fighter, but do you think most casual fans would know what division he fights in? Aside from heavyweight, I think the division a fighter fights in is irrelevant to most people.
I cannot imagine where your viewpoint comes from
So I’m not even going to try to change your mind on it. It’s 180 degrees different from the casual fans I’ve known. How you think that by making 13 weight clasess, reducing potential match-ups and introducing a bunch of new divisions to keep track of would have a positive effect on casual interest is beyond me.
How many people, actually know what weigth GSP fights at?
I’m serious. If you asked them, how many would answer correctly. The thing is, they don’t care. They just know that GSP is a good fighter, which is all that’s important.
His specialness would be greatly reduced if you took away some of his conquered foes, like Matt Serra and BJ Penn, neither of whom would have likely fought him at 173 if 163 was available. Meanwhile Rashad vs. Jones could be out the window since Rashad would likely have been fighting at 193. Then there are additional advantages to the current schematic such as the round numbers for weight limits being easier to remember. This may not translate internationally, but the PPV-heavy domestic market still accounts for over 70% of all UFC revenue. The fans that buy lots of PPVs certainly care. Right now, there’s already a problem with individual PPVs becoming less “special” when there are so many of them, despite most of them having at least one title fight (and occasionally two). Additional Champions would actually exacerbate this problem. Belts would have a harder time being a draw on their own. With only two actual mega-draws in the UFC who can draw big PPV numbers without a hot feud or title belt at stake, this would be a serious problem.
Btw, of the four major boxing sanctioning bodies (out of five) that use both of the terms Cruiserweight and Light-Heavyweight, Cruiserweight is a higher division than LHW in all four (the WBO calls Cruiserweight “Junior Heavyweight” for some reason). Just sayin’.
You're telling em the guy who fought Machida at Heavyweight wouldn't fight GSP at 173?
Besides, your logic is completely flawed, since Penn at two different weights anyway. In reality, Penn very well might have fought at 153, 163 and 173, and possibly held belts in all of those divisions.
If anything, this set up would like create more match ups, because fighters would likely bounce between a few divisions, rather than be stuck in one. it would create more possibilities for “super fights” between champs of relatively close divisions that might not happen otherwise.
dont really like that idea though
close divisions and the amount of belts your proposing really water down championships to the point that their irrelevant.
plus your stipulation on bodyfat is kinda pointless, if you wanna come in and weigh 250 and be fat then good luck buddy, have fun winning fights. plus some guys like mike russow just naturally look like that
and i really dont like the ideas of champions jumping around from weight class to weight class. i think champions should pretty much stay where they are
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
Also, to answer your question
Of the people I’ve known who actually know who GSP is, I’m having a hard time thinking of anyone that wouldn’t know he fights at 170.
There isn't a need to add new weight classes
115lbs is only seen in Shooto really and not really run that often HEavyweight dosen’t need to be cut in half for the simple reason the talent isn’t there
lightweight to light heavyweight are all sound divisions with no need to make changes to
Twitter @MaZZM
http://www.mazzznet.com/
I wrote about this awhile back.
www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/2/20/1999797/a-history-and-possible-future-of-ufc-weight-classes-pt-2-2
I stand by my reasoning, as impractical as it ultimately is. Lots of great insight in the comments section as well.
The wise man has something to say; the foolish man has to say something.
by PistonHyundai on Dec 22, 2011 8:52 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Didn't peep that post first time around
but excellent work. Especially how your breakdown of how to deal with the talent-heavy middle classes. Also how easily transferrable the belts would be with your system.
by GreyedOut on Dec 23, 2011 7:05 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
The 8 current weight classes all originated in the Unified Rules
It’s not like the UFC pulled them out of thin air. The only weight class in the Unified Rules not in the UFC is Super-Heavyweight, as it is non-competitive (and honestly, could probably be done away with minimal difference).
I would not mind a Cruiserweight class being added at 225 with the upper limit on HW being done away with once the fighter population justifies it but right now it really does not.. I actually voted for this option, but honestly do not expect it in the next five years.
If the Unified Rules were to be amended, in the here and now I would add Strawweight (115), albeit for women only, as far as athletic commission enforcement goes (right now all such bouts in the United States are technically catchweight and thus I believe there are fewer penalty options if one party misses weight). There are enough women that that class is competitive. Only Shooto and the Filipino promotion URCC run Strawweight for men and it is actually shallower than women’s 115. I’m fairly confident that there are less than 80 active male Strawweights total (possibly less than 50), which is not much of a talent pool.
How the heck could a male make it down to 115?
My wife is 5’1" 117 and skinny. Cruiserweight at 225 would be an easy way to a title for some guys within the same camp who refuse to fight (Velasquez\Cormier. Although, I think we haven’t seen enough of Cormier to think he could go on a significant run in UFC. Aside from looking like 250 of chewed bubble gum
there are tons of boxers that fight at 115lbs and less. If i'm not mistaken Manny Paquiao started his career fighting at 112lbs
hell boxing even has a 108 and a 105 weight class.
I doubt your wife cuts twenty pounds of weight though.
I could make some sort of joke, but I honestly don’t know you like that so I refrained.
by discoandherpes on Dec 23, 2011 2:27 AM EST up reply actions
no more weight classes
its perfect as is, we dont need 17 classes like boxing. 8 is perfect and 1 more then necessary in my mind
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
flyweight
its unneccessary at this stage of the sports growth, the ufc just added bw and fw, i’d like to see those divisions get fleshed out more and have more time to be accepted by the average fan who didnt watch the WEC
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
UFC is smart to add flyweights before Bellator decided to.
by discoandherpes on Dec 23, 2011 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
this is true
Bellator wants to have the lighter weights on lockdown
I enjoy MMA, but I am no Michael Bisping
by Andy Anderson on Dec 23, 2011 11:18 PM EST up reply actions
I think I came up with a slightly better set of Weight Classes
That would keep more dept in the slightly thinner divisions, while also allowing for smaller gaps between the more stacked weight ranges. Here it is.
Bantamweight-130 lbs.
Featherweight-140 lbs
Super Featherweight-150 lbs
Lightweight-157 pounds
Super Lightweight-164 pounds
Welterweight-171 pounds
Super Welterweight-178 pounds
Middleweight-185 pounds
Super Middleweight-195 pounds
Light Heavyweight-205 pounds
Heavyweight-Unlimited, but with a maximum body fat percentage.
They should take the weight cap off of heavyweight. Really large heavyweights have never had long term success and have been beat by smaller guys in their division, so I see no need for having the weight limit there. There really is little benefit to coming in at 300 pounds against a guy like Dos Santos or Velasquez.
Interesting post
The idea of creating a new class from LW and WW makes sense considering how super deep the divisions are. It’s all too likely A. Silva would just reign over both MW and Cruiserweight.
by GreyedOut on Dec 23, 2011 5:41 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Cruiserweight is the only one that makes sense to me
There is too much range at heavyweight and there are a lot of light heavies (Jones) who could compete above 205 but would silly against an Overeem.
GSP is is one of the few fighters who is “perfect” in his weight class. Too big for 155 and to small for 185.
BTW, I cruiserweight will never happen in the UFC. I am just saying that a good argument can be made. The other divisions seems solid to me as they are. And I see no need for a sub-flyweight unless the UFC brand starts making inroads in the land of elves and sprites.
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
Mohandas Gandhi
"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses - behind the lines, in the gym, and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights."
Muhammad Ali
"If MMA is like dog fighting, those are some pretty fucking smart dogs."
"I don’t want to lick any butt."
GSP
completely disagree
hw is far too thin to cut the division in half. plus fighters like JDS and brock show how much better the division can be with fighters of different size. there is as much benefit to being a 265 lb monster as there is to being 235 and quick.
a 225 division takes away half the fun of the hw division. varying speed, strength, and size have their own parts to making the division the most interesting in mma in my mind. the variety of hw offers more to the table then divisions like bw, fw, lw, ww and mw where just about everyone is the exact same size and speed
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
i like 225, but don't see why there needs to be an increase in the 265 limit
JDS is pretty trim when he comes in at like 240. he’d probably stay at HW because he won the title and can KO anybody. people are definetely not the same size in the lower weight classes (e.g. Rumble, Jon Jones, and Tibau).
i like 225 because going from 205 to 265 is just a huge gap. 225 (or maybe even 235 to cut the gap in half) would be perfect for a guy like Fedor who obviously can’t compete against a well rounded 265er. it might’ve worked against Man Choi but… well… we all saw what happened with Bigfoot. it could also be Jones’ next division as well, though he’ll probably fair well enough at 265 when he moves up.
the best thing in my opinion is it would give some of the… fluffier heavyweights like Nelson incentive to trim down some. Randy would’ve loved the division if he was still fighting. thinning out the HW division is a bit of a problem, but there will be an influx of HW’s coming over from Strikeforce to offset that some.
by lordrubbish on Dec 23, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
205 to 265 isnt really a big gap at all
size starts to become a negative the bigger you get. i really dont think there should even be a cap on the hw division, if you wanna come fight at 300 lbs well good fucking luck lasting 15 minutes
if you naturally weigh 225 you can very very easily cut down to 205 like tito rampage forrest and randy do. and if your cutting to make 225 then you prob weight 245-250 and should just fight at hw
the cruiserweight division is just a terrible fucking idea and completely unnecessary
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
by milk72 on Dec 23, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
haha so are weight classes in general. open weight GP!
60 lbs isn’t a big gap? Randy Couture weighed in at like 220 for the Brock fight. Brock, after cutting down to 265, rehydraded and came in at about 280 or so, roughly. You seriously don’t think thats a big gap??? Did you see that fight?
Size has its negatives, but if you’re fighting a guy who outweighs you by 60 pounds, then you’re the one that’s lucky if you can last 15 minutes.
by lordrubbish on Dec 23, 2011 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
a 220 lb guy should be cutting to lhw as i said above
JDS weighs at 235 though, do you think he’d be at a massive disadvantage against brock? cain was outweighed by around 40 lbs and seemed to hold his own.
plus randy didnt exactly get outmuscled by brock for that whole fight, if you watch it again there was a very close first round and he just got clipped by brocks massive hands in the second. was brock bigger and did that play a factor? yes but not to the extent that your saying.
the optimal range for heavyweights is 230-265. any bigger your too slow and smaller you should be at 205. i really think a weight cap isnt necessary. think of it from a football perspective who would you rather have in a fight a lineman or a linebacker? each size offers their own strengths and weaknesses to the octagon which only improves the quality of action
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
Brock vs. Randy is both a good and bad example of why size is a big factor
bad, because like you said, Randy held his own, actually took Brock down (if memory serves) in the first, and displayed better boxing and skill in the round. but it’s a very good example as well because Randy didn’t get hit with a clean punch, it was a glancing blow that let to the TKO. there was a huge disparity in punching power in that fight. that’s really the big concern. the huge size difference is what allowed Brock, a guy with 3 mma fights to defeat a multi-time UFC champion and an mma legend.
Cain did hold his own against Brock, but at the Weigh in there was only a 20 lb difference. Idk that Brock cut weight for that fight because it was after diverticulitis and I think he lost a lot of weight. I would say the difference may have been like 30 lbs. Cain held his own and then some, but he, like Randy, is also significantly more skilled than Brock. the point of weight classes is to give guys a level playing field, just like a team sport has the same number of players alloted.
You make good points and I do think that speed, skill, and explosiveness are very important for a fighter, but I see weight partitions in the lower classes as important for good reason (just look at the pay deductions guys face for missing weight). You never see middleweights take on lightweights, because a 30 lb gap in size is huge for someone who is 155. I also think there are a lot of guys like Mirko, Fedor, and Mark Hunt who can’t make 205 but are undersized at HW and would benefit from a 206-226 class. I agree though that it’s unnecessary.
A list of all the greatest heavyweights of all time
Fedor
Noguiera
Cro Cop
Barnett
Recent heavyweight champions
JDS
Velasquez
Lesnar
Couture
The guys in bold are the only guys who hit the heavyweight limit. Neither is going to be the UFC heavyweight champion again, so I see no reason to cut an already thin division in half.
by discoandherpes on Dec 23, 2011 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
greatest of all time? based on what?
Lesnar can certainly be a champ again if he learns to be comfortable on his feet. Barnett is a savvy vet and hasn’t lost in a long time. There’s also Carwin and Overeem. Mir is an all-time great and is approaching the HW limit. A midpoint between 205 and 265 serves the same purpose as any weight class – create match ups between fighters comparable to size to ensure safety and competitiveness.
The HW division is not as thin as people think. With guys like Barnett, Overeem, Werdum, and Cormier coming over from SF, there will be a lot of interesting match-ups to come. There isn’t a dominant champion that has had a stranglehold on the division.
I’m not saying creating cruiserweight needs to happen now or has no negatives. It would be a good idea to implement at some pt. It’s part of the evolution of the sport. Heavyweights are bigger, more skilled, and athletic than when the weight classes were initially devised, so there’s nothing wrong with revising them as the sport grows. It’s the same principle as the one behind adding BW, FW, and FLW to the UFC.
Based on accomplishment and skill
Who would you rather put in that list?
Carwin has lost weight to compete with his smaller competitors, Lesnar isn’t touching the belt again unless JDS and Velasquez both retire. Overeem seemed really tired in his last fight, and can benefit from eating a bit less horse meat as well. Mir is not an all time great. He got smashed by Carwin and Lesnar, and would get smashed by JDS and Velasquez. He’s good, not great.
Historically the best heavyweights in the world are smaller (in the two thirty to two forty range) and that remains true with our top two heavyweights today. Bigfoot, Carwin, and Lesnar are all huge and have all lost to smaller competitors. If anything they should take the limit off of heavyweight because anything past 255 and your getting diminishing returns.
Therefore, a cruiser weight division is not only unnecessary, but really dumb.
by discoandherpes on Dec 23, 2011 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
Agree on cruiserweight
It would combine the stamina and athleticism of LHW with the power of HW. I’d let HW be what it already is: a small group of multi-talented, well-conditioned athletes and a rotating cast of marginally skilled or cardo-challenged guys whose only title chance is based on getting lucky with a KO.
Minowaweight or GTFO
aimed at the crotch...
by Damon O. on Dec 23, 2011 9:30 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I want to learn how to do what he does
that is be awesome…
Oh wait! I already know how to do that!
Watch out Josh Barnett I am coming for you!
I enjoy MMA, but I am no Michael Bisping
by Andy Anderson on Dec 23, 2011 11:20 PM EST up reply actions
Moneyweight
The favorite weightclass of both King Mo and myself
I enjoy MMA, but I am no Michael Bisping
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