MMA Origins: Getting Medieval
Last time we discussed the first recorded combat sport, Pankration. While this art was important to note, it does not have an established connection to the sport of Mixed Martial Arts. The origins of modern MMA can be traced back to two primary sources, martial arts that developed around the same general time on two different sides of the globe during the Middle Ages.
In Europe, the Western Roman Empire had crumbled under its own weight. Europe went through a period of chaos as German tribes picked the bones of the Roman Empire clean. Out of this 'dark age' new powers emerged; France, England, the Holy Roman Empire, and Spain to name a few. While these looked like nations when we observe maps depicting these times, they were in fact composed of tangled webs of personal and political loyalties that shifted and changed. As a result families often meant more politically than borders; there was a time when the King of England ruled more of France than the King of France through family connections.
Likewise half a world away, in the islands of Japan, the land was divided between many different kingdoms, connected by a similar web of complex political, economic and personal relationships. The ruling class were the land owning lords, known as Daimyos.
Warfare was a constant in this ever shifting landscape and in both Japan and Europe warrior classes emerged. Daimyos in the East and Feudal Lords in the West gave plots of land and peasants to warriors in exchange for their service. These warriors, free of the need to harvest their own food, were able to devote their time to training for war. These grew into their own warrior cultures with their practices and ideologies.
In Japan, they were the Samurai and they followed the Code of Bushido and in Europe it was the Knights who had the loose ideology of Chivalry. Both Knight and Samurai used swords, spears, and other weapons to defeat their enemies, and they shared one more quality: they wore armor. This armor was the best protection technology could provide and would stop not just glancing blows, but direct strikes with all but the heaviest weapons.
How to defeat an armored opponent became the question that martial skills sought to solve. Punches and kicks were not very effective against armor, so grappling became one answer. In a clash of swords, one fighter could quick position himself and throw his enemy to the ground. An armored enemy, once on his back, is weighed down by his armor and then strikes could be directed at the gaps in the armor with the added force of gravity to help break through.
video after the jump...
In Japan, the art was know as Jujitsu, while in Europe it was generally referred to as 'wrestling at the sword'. While not always pretty and fluid, it was highly effective.
(A fantastic example of grappling using a sword and wearing armor via tossetoke)
Both arts developed their grappling in societies where practically everyone was armed, so the focus was defending against attacks from blades. Dealing with attacks from knives was at the core of both Jujitsu and Wrestling and the vast majority of techniques are the same.
Here is a shoulder lock takedown used against a dagger attack in both Jujitsu and European wrestling:
European over hand attack dagger defense.
Uke Garami against over hand knife attack (via nidanwarrior11)
These techniques are not just similar, they are identical in principle and practice. The jujitsu technique is one of the oldest in the martial arts and the European one comes from the combat manual Flos Duellatorum based on German fighting techniques and written before any Europeans ever had contact with the Japanese. Thus completely independently from each other, the Japanese and Europeans came to the same technical solution. And it is not just restricted to this technique, there are many similarities, either identical techniques or ones that work on the same principles.
Japan's warfare gave way to a time of peace and during this time the Samurai began to open schools to train their styles of combat, or ryu, including Jujitsu. Despite being at peace, Japan was still divided and Jujitsu schools had little contact with each other and thus the styles grew apart. Japan began to have contact with European explorers and traders, and a closed door policy was imposed, locking out foreign influences.
While Japan looked inward, Europe looked to expand outward. Europeans traveled the world on the ships and those same ships that carried explorers and merchants also carried wrestlers. Wrestlers, who in the endless hours to fill ashore, would often challenge local wrestlers to matches and a lot of spectators would bet on the results. As a result Persian style wrestling from the Middle East and Indian wrestling from the sub-continent began to blend with the European Wrestling.
Back in Europe, wrestling was still very popular. In fact it became common custom for the Kings of European nations to wrestle each other at festivals. In one rather famous encounter King Henry VIII of England grappled with King Francis I of France. They both practiced wrestling arts that used jackets (similar to gis) and wrestled to the first flying throw (similar to an Ippon), so the match would have looked very much like a Judo match. King Francis won by a Flying Mare throw (similar to a Seoi Nage).
But the advent of the gun brought to an end of battles fought primarily with close combat and armor became a thing of the past. In Japan, the Meiji Restorations put an end to the ways of the Samurai and Jujitsu would have faded into the past but for a man named Kano Jigoro. He took the divided and complicated art of Jujitsu and smooth lined it into the modern sport of Judo. Some pockets of Jujitsu survived and are taught to this day in its pure form.
In Europe, it was purely a matter of practicality and not government policy that relegated wrestling to sport instead of combat art. Wrestling divided into sport wrestling which included catch wrestling, a grappling art that included submission holds.
While Jujitsu and catch wrestling existed for centuries in their home lands it was not until these two arts switched hemispheres that would lead directly to the birth of the sport of Mixed Martial Arts.
Special Thanks to KJ Gould for his help with catch wrestling history.
For more on the rise of Jujitsu and Judo in Japan:
Jiu-Jitsu History: Birth on the Battlefield
Jiu-Jitsu History: The Meiji Era and the Evolution of Judo
The Forgotten Golden Age of MMA: The Rise of Judo
MMA Origins:
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IMMA GET MEDIEVAL ON YOUR ASS
BOOMSHAKALAKA
¬_¬
by ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ on Dec 14, 2011 5:01 PM EST reply actions
Awesome
This past weekend there was a show on National Geo called “Medieval Fight Book”. Pretty amazing stuff, it had the fighting techniques of the time and awesome had some judicial combat which was normal back them.
Man and Women disputes were settled by combat. A man in a hole in the ground with a club and a women standing with a heavy stone in a sling.
Crazy stuff
Sheeeeeeeee-it
AWESOME work!
I noticed some similarities between jujitsu and medieval techniques when I was doing some research on medieval combat for a novelist last summer, but you’ve really brought out the similarities nicely. The medieval combat manuals are amazing resources, chock full of practical and effective grappling — I convinced some buddies at my gym to try them out, and they really work well.
"Denique nullumst iam dictum quod non dictum sit prius."-- Terence
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
Awesome info but man were knights just stupid?
In that first video showing the sword takedowns, they only work if the knight who is thrown chooses to continue gripping his sword with BOTH hands. By letting go of the non hilt hand, or if necessary the hilt hand, the offensive grappler would be negated.
Knights were a long way from stupid
They were professional fighters who trained constantly in both armed and unarmed combat. But let’s break this particular scenario down a little bit and see why it ends the way it does. First, if the knight lets go of his sword to avoid the takedown, then he’s left without a weapon against someone who has one. Better to be on your back with your sword than standing without it. Second, hanging on with one hand isn’t real viable — they’re using hand-and-a-half swords which are generally meant to be used either with both hands on the hilt or one on the hilt and one on the blade. Finally, this is a pretty fast technique; unless you drill against it specifically, how are you supposed to know that it ends in a takedown?
Not trying to be uber-critical here, but let’s give them a little credit.
"Denique nullumst iam dictum quod non dictum sit prius."-- Terence
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
by Patrick Wyman on Dec 14, 2011 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
I think you could add one more thing
These guys are only demonstrating some of the techniques they used, so I wouldn’t doubt they had different moves for different circumstances. I would be willing to bet that knights had a contingency maneuver in case the other guy did take his hand off, as Cocytus suggested.
by Continental Op on Dec 14, 2011 6:09 PM EST up reply actions
Indeed
I think this technique comes from Talhoffer’s fechtbuch, and it’s one in a series that includes a number of counters.
"Denique nullumst iam dictum quod non dictum sit prius."-- Terence
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
by Patrick Wyman on Dec 14, 2011 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
Ringen am schwert flow chart. Awesome.
by Continental Op on Dec 14, 2011 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
All good points and I was being hasty and sloppy with the stupid comment. Just watching the video the techniques struck me as something where the disadvantaged fighter basically has to cooperate with the other to make it happen. But of course the video was for demonstrative purposes. In actual use it would work or not depending on any number of other related aspects….just like any martial arts move.
by Cocytus on Dec 14, 2011 11:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
part of it is this at a slower speed
and notice that in the first sequence that the knight does let go and still ends up on the ground anyway.
this style of fighting with swords was pretty common and they would use it similarly to how modern soldiers use rifles with bayonets fixed. Stab with the point and use the heavy end like a club. Knights would be have an array of techniques from binds, disarms and throws, so yes this technique could be stopped but you’d have to know it was coming or figure it out before it was too late.
aka BuckeyedBear34
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
-Napoleon Bonaparte
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
You should edit in
one of the pictures in the old fightbooks of someone using the guard,
was there one?
I didn’t see it if there is
aka BuckeyedBear34
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
-Napoleon Bonaparte
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
huh?
aka BuckeyedBear34
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
-Napoleon Bonaparte
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
Very interesting and practical to know...thanks.

Irony (n.) -Michael Westbrook as the hero on Bully Beatdown.
by Jim America on Dec 14, 2011 6:22 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
All I know is...
You should always use Valyrian steel…

Winter is coming...
by Danthemmaman on Dec 14, 2011 6:33 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
ah been too long since I've seen a Game of Thrones pic on here
aka BuckeyedBear34
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
-Napoleon Bonaparte
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
I am well aware of Season 2
and am awaiting it eagerly
aka BuckeyedBear34
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
-Napoleon Bonaparte
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
Discussing Medieval combat without mentioning Hans Talhoffer is just wrong.
He literally wrote the book on it: http://www.thearma.org/pdf/Fight-Earnestly.pdf
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Dec 14, 2011 6:49 PM EST reply actions
I find It rather funny
That wrestling was partially born in the UK and they r one of the worst nations in MMA at Wrestling! Just a thought
13-5 in SigBetting on MMALInker!
"No man can Fuck a crazy chick into sanity"
by 420mike on Dec 14, 2011 7:33 PM EST via mobile reply actions
It died out
From a combination of reasons.
Bloody Elbow Grappling Editor.
Follow me on Twitter @KJGould
Like me on Facebook
they are traditionally horrific at fencing too…
but hey the UK always has boxing as martial sports go
aka BuckeyedBear34
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
-Napoleon Bonaparte
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
More money in Boxing
And a ridiculous amount of money in Football (Soccer).
Bloody Elbow Grappling Editor.
Follow me on Twitter @KJGould
Like me on Facebook
Connection to Pankration
Many people believe there is a connection between the Japanese arts and Pankration….The theory is Alexander the Greats Greek soldiers that settled in Persia and India (after conquering the region) spread the techniques of Greek wrestling, boxing, and pankration to the those regions. It is only a theory…it has not been conclusively proven OR un-proven. Keep in mind, the conquering soldiers in ancient times quite often decided to settle in the conquered land rather that go back home. To this day there are customs performed in Iran and Afganistan that have Greek origins.
I addressed this in my first article
that is a theory but there is zero evidence that Pankration seeped into Indian culture and thus spread to China and then to Japan. And with no evidence it is just wild speculation thought up by historians who would really like to credit the Greeks for everything (think the Greek father from My Big Fat Greek Wedding but with a PhD).
It is similar to that 1421 book about how China possibly had the ability to sail to North America and there for they did. Serious scholars tore that book to shreds and basically reduced it to a pleasant bit of fiction.
Forgive my harsh response, but in the field of history evidence is everything. Demonstrating that something could have happened isn’t enough, there has to be documentation of it occurring in some fashion, often from several different sources before historians accept something as even a theory, much less as fact.
aka BuckeyedBear34
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
-Napoleon Bonaparte
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
I am the Dad from the Big Fat Greek Wedding....call me Gus
I don’t disagree with your point..no arguement here…just a reminder regarding for the readers about provocative theories that exist out there. One thing really puzzles me though, it seem like many people in the martial arts world have an almost vitriolic response when this theory/idea is brought up. Even your response (as you alluded to) has a “harsh” feel to it. Have you experienced the same observation? If so, can you describe why this is so.
for me it is not that I am in martial arts
it is that I’ve spent a lot of time studying in the field of history, and a theory with no evidence is nothing more than a line a thought. Once you become an undergrad the idea of primary source evidence is driven into your head, like science experiments you can only come to conclusions when you have evidence to support that conclusion.
The Hellenistic impact on the middle east that you mention has quite a bit of primary source support, but not so much in India, especially southern India, where Alexander never ventured. There is also no evidence that Pankration was adopted, practiced or embraced by anyone in India, which is the swing area in the theory, and there is no evidence that Pankration traveled through India to China.
You mentioned the idea that it is not proven or disproved, in the field of History if you have no evidence then is disproved. Now if new evidence turned up it could be revisited but everything we have thus far there is nothing that supports this idea.
again this is not meat to be harsh, but rather an explanation of how the academic field works. Without this focus on evidence all sorts of incorrect, but logical paths, of thought could be brought forward. The majority of a Historian’s work is cross checking primary sources with other primary sources and archeological records to see if all the facts add up or if we still have gaps.
(an example is the Emperor Caesar Augustus claiming that on a momentous day a shooting star was seen and he declared that it was spirt of Julius Caesar showing his approval. While this sounds like total crap historians checked Chinese astrological records and found that on that same day they too saw a shooting star, so at least that part of Augustus’ story checks out)
aka BuckeyedBear34
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
-Napoleon Bonaparte
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
Not claiming my statement is history
Well put…I don’t disagree that history needs to have solid support. I thought I made it very clear on my original case that I am not stating the hypothisis is true only a commonly held idea in some circles. Most great historical discoveries were first just an idea. I am merely making readers aware of common conjecture that exists on this subject. Also, do not believe the academic world always needs facts to support their theories…the academic world is made of men…men are biased and will quite often chose what is acceptable or not….there are many examples of this in science and academia.
I appreciate your knowledge and time on this subject…I like it!
the academic world is made of men…men are biased and will quite often chose what is acceptable or not
yes there are those that are set in the ways, but there is always a champion for a new theory. If there is good evidence it will become accepted, if not it will be dropped. One of my professors championed a new way of looking at population dynamics in the Roman Republic and took on the established way of thinking and changed minds.
There really hasn’t been serious work put into Pankration traveling to China because there just isn’t the evidence. It could be right but the arts developing independently is far more likely and there is where the evidence points.
and I also enjoy sharing and discussing these subjects with people! thank you for commenting and having this talk (and not getting offended if I inadvertently got mean)
aka BuckeyedBear34
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
-Napoleon Bonaparte
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
Independent discovery is far more likely
Millions of people trying to kill each other over thousands of years of recorded history will eventually settle on the same limited number of ways to optimally bust up a human body.
It’s fighting, not nuclear physics.
Never approach a vast undertaking with a half-vast plan.

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