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Jon Jones and the Burden of Expectations

At this point, it takes a special kind of obstinance and/or hatred to deny that Jon Jones is, at the very least, amongst the elite fighters in this sport. Since winning a decision over Stephan Bonnar, he has finished eight consecutive opponents (unless you choose to regard the Hamill fight as a genuine loss). But in addition to the accolades Jones has received, there is a significant trend of critical commentary.

Star-divide

Going into the fight with Brandon Vera, the discussion was about Jones's ability to deal with a quality striker (whether or not Vera actually qualifies as such is now moot). Against Matyushenko, it was about his ability to deal with a veteran and a physically powerful grappler with high caliber wrestling. Against Ryan Bader, it was basically about both. Practically every time Jones fights, people consistently ask how he will deal with fighting from his back and how he will deal with being hit.

Now, I'm not denying that these are genuine questions. To date, we still have not seen Jones on his back, except for a very short period of time against Andre Gusmao (if I remember it rightly, Jones failed on a trip or throw and ended up in side control before rapidly reversing or regaining his feet) and the two seconds against Rampage when he pulled guard. And, with the exception of Vera's illegal upkick, a right cross from Bader, and a body kick and those straight punches from Machida, he has not been hit cleanly.

Furthermore, after each of his last two fights- fights which he won handily, and in which he submitted two men notoriously difficult to tap- there has been a significant portion of the interwebs population claiming that weaknesses in Jones's game have been exposed. Interestingly, the Rampage fight and the Machida fight supposedly exposed opposite weaknesses: against Rampage, it was his wrestling which was apparently revealed as unimpressive, against Machida it was his striking game. This despite the fact that Jones has several times outwrestled high quality amateur wrestlers (including the All-American Ryan Bader) and heavily outstruck Shogun Rua. Granted, his striking game does have some shaky fundamentals, but it is very difficult to argue with his results, and if even strikers like Rampage and Shogun can't make him pay for them, it seems doubtful that anyone will do so more than Machida did (which is to say, some, but not even close to enough).

My question is this: why is this such a large piece of the narrative surrounding Jon Jones? When Anderson Silva pulled off what is basically the MMA equivalent of the Catch in triangling Sonnen, the majority opinion was that he had proved his greatness, not been "exposed" as the crappy wrestler he is. Likewise, when GSP couldn't take Josh Koscheck down but shattered his face in the process of dominating him for five rounds, very few people argued that St-Pierre was revealed as an inadequate takedown artist. But when Jones had similar (but, in fact, less) difficulty taking down Rampage, many did just that.

What we have "learned" from Jones's recent fights is that the fighter who beats him will be someone with elite level striking (apparently better than Shogun's and Rampage's, and at least as good as Machida's), and elite level wrestling (better than Rampage's and Bader's and Matyushenko's), and probably also black belt caliber submissions. Okay. And who's that?

I'm not saying Jones will not lose, I'm not even saying that none of the current light heavies can't beat him- I think the best candidate at the moment is Phil Davis a little ways down the road. But I am saying that we apparently demand that Jon Jones be perfect, or at least outstanding, in every single aspect of this sport before we admit that he is probably top three pound for pound (if not already number two, given GSP's struggles to finish opponents). Silva has one of the most obvious holes in this entire sport, but no one argues that he needs to shore up his wrestling before he can be number one.

Just for the heck of it:

The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.

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The reason the narrative wasn't about Anderson being "exposed"

Was because we had all seen Anderson be human before. It was never a secret that wrestling was his weakest point, switch against Marquardt nonwithstanding. He’d even been on the receiving end of a highlight reel submission loss to Ryo Chonan. We’re all wondering who will take Jones down. The Rampage fight did indeed show that Jones can’t ragdoll everyone and that a physically stronger fighter like Rampage can keep it standing. The fight again Machida tonight did prove that a really good counter striker can take advantage of Jones’ wild striking.

The problem, of course, being that it would be a miracle to find a wrestler as strong as Rampage that is also quick enough to counter on the feet. It would be a similar miracle to find a counterstriker as good as Machida that also has the physicality to keep the fight standing or stand up from being on the ground quickly.

Share for share, share alike, you'll get struck each time I strike.

by gzl5000 on Dec 11, 2011 1:25 AM EST reply actions  

That is the problem with him

His strengths seem to overlap his weaknesses. It’s kind of like how with a fighter with reach you want to get in on them. But if you get in on Jones then you run into his wrestling.

by HaterSlayer on Dec 11, 2011 1:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Is it safe to say the dude has no weaknesses?

I mean, of course he can lose; but it won’t be from a glaring fault to be exploited by a game opponent like, say, Jardine’s unorthodoxy (jitteriness), Hendo’s submission defense, Anderson’s wrestling, Wanderlei’s open hooks and lack of chin, Shogun’s movement degradation, Guillard’s submission allergy, Chuck losing his chin, Mir’s diminished chin and penchant to suffer the wrath of wrestlers,Pat Barry’s crap jitz, Stefan Struve being Stefan Struve, Tito’s everything, etc.

It’s almost mind numbing.

The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.

by Unabomberman on Dec 11, 2011 1:56 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

He has weaknesses, but he also has strengths that make those weaknesses very difficult to exploit. He has poor striking fundamentals, but those are offset by a gargantuan reach. If you get inside that reach, you need to be get in and get out or else he’s going to grab a hold of you and dump you on your head. If you do manage to put him on his back, he can scramble with the best of them, and heaven help you if he winds up on top.

by Steve4192 on Dec 11, 2011 8:10 AM EST up reply actions  

Nobody ever made Anderson look as “human” as Chael- except Ryo Chonan, and that was much different.

JDS, Jones, Florian, Frankie

by Crackity Bones on Dec 11, 2011 2:45 AM EST up reply actions  

You're talking about degrees.

The situation with Jones is one of absolutes.

Share for share, share alike, you'll get struck each time I strike.

by gzl5000 on Dec 11, 2011 3:25 AM EST up reply actions  

It seems like, in this scenario you’re describing here, everyone in the world thought Jon Jones was some sort of martial arts cyborg with no weaknesses of any kind until he had some difficulty taking Rampage down.

JDS, Jones, Florian, Frankie

by Crackity Bones on Dec 11, 2011 3:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Well…..

Share for share, share alike, you'll get struck each time I strike.

by gzl5000 on Dec 11, 2011 4:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Rashad actually does fit that bill exactly.

Strong wrestler, quick as hell, sharp hands. I think that Rashad is a very real threat to Jones.

Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).

"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates

by ElliotMatheny on Dec 11, 2011 7:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Rashad is too small and isn't durable

Rashad has better hands than Jones, but I don’t think he’ll be able to land on him. If worse comes to worst then I think Jon will have no problem taking ’Shad down.

by HaterSlayer on Dec 11, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions  

I disagree with that notion.

Rashad has only been taken down ONCE in the last 4 years.

Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).

"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates

by ElliotMatheny on Dec 11, 2011 9:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Nah.

Machida’s success in striking was partly his level of skill, but a huge part of it was the range he keeps. Rashad was the most uncomfortable he’s ever been in his career when he hung out at kicking range against Machida. I don’t think ’Shad will be able to move in much if Jones uses his kicks correctly.

Share for share, share alike, you'll get struck each time I strike.

by gzl5000 on Dec 11, 2011 5:40 PM EST up reply actions  

As Lyoto showed,

Jones’ kicks are open to counters down the pipe. Rashad is fantastic at darting in with punches. Not saying that Evans WOULD catch Jones, just that he COULD.

Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).

"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates

by ElliotMatheny on Dec 11, 2011 9:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Good write up man

It kinda reminds me of that fan post about “Your hatred is making you stupid” after he beat Rampage. I thought after he ran through Shogun it was possible that he was head and shoulders above the weight class. The Rampage fight confirmed it. I always wondered what the reaction would be from people if he did eat a shot. I think now everyone pretty much thinks LHW is screwed. I have seen some people on Sherdog(i know) saying they think Dan could land an H-bomb on him for whatever reason though.

Something that was incredible was he followed up the the worst round he’s had since he’s been at Jackson’s with some insane domination. In the 2nd round he slammed, cut, dropped, and choked out Lyoto. He didn’t wilt, he somehow got better. And that is scary for everyone at 205.

Dude is a great fighter, and I’m glad he caught my eye early on and I hopped on the bandwagon then so I don’t feel like a front runner now. My “Do Bronx” hype train isn’t doing so well now. I

by HaterSlayer on Dec 11, 2011 1:27 AM EST reply actions  

Davis? Doubt it.

The only issue Jones has against him is his wrestling, and maybe, now that I think twice about it.

The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.

by Unabomberman on Dec 11, 2011 1:37 AM EST reply actions  

I doubt it, too, but I think the way to get at Jones is through his long-ass arms (on the ground, that is). And Phil’s got a hell of a kimura and, I think, the wrestling to maybe get him down.

JDS, Jones, Florian, Frankie

by Crackity Bones on Dec 11, 2011 2:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Phil needs to be careful about getting too aggressive with his shots and leaving his neck out there though. Those long skinny forearms are deadly for chokes.

by Steve4192 on Dec 11, 2011 8:13 AM EST up reply actions  

True enough.

JDS, Jones, Florian, Frankie

by Crackity Bones on Dec 11, 2011 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I feel like Jones would KTFO Davis in under two minutes.

KEMvP

"You know Joe, if Keith Jardines last name was Johnson, the nickname 'The Dean of Mean' wouldn't work at all."

by T.C. Engel on Dec 11, 2011 1:48 AM EST reply actions  

Very possible. Very possible. But I still think he’s the got the best shot right now.

JDS, Jones, Florian, Frankie

by Crackity Bones on Dec 11, 2011 2:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Davis is the best shot? Are you high?

Davis won’t get past Rashad much less Jones. Your giving Davis fights that he hasn’t even won yet.

My opinion>Your onion.

by Tairy Hesticles on Dec 11, 2011 5:20 AM EST up reply actions  

That’s why I said down the road. I’m thinking two years from now.

JDS, Jones, Florian, Frankie

by Crackity Bones on Dec 11, 2011 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't,

Phil is actually very good at not getting hit. Fightmetric has him taking 0.38 strikes a minute, and dodging 81% of the “significant” strikes that his opponent throws. Phil has also never been taken down in the UFC.

Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).

"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates

by ElliotMatheny on Dec 11, 2011 7:29 AM EST up reply actions  

I think Jones is more likely to choke him out than knock him out. Phil sometimes leaves his neck out there when he shoots. Against a monster with skinny forearms and an ungodly reach, that can be problematic.

by Steve4192 on Dec 11, 2011 8:16 AM EST up reply actions  

I mean, it could happen,

but I don’t see Phil getting submitted unless he’s rocked. Dude is a very solid grappler and knows how to get out of submissions.

Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).

"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates

by ElliotMatheny on Dec 11, 2011 9:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Edit

I meant, “I’m not even saying that none of the current light heavies can beat him.”

In other news, I am a dumbass. That is all.

JDS, Jones, Florian, Frankie

by Crackity Bones on Dec 11, 2011 2:51 AM EST reply actions  

…we apparently demand that Jon Jones be perfect, or at least outstanding, in every single aspect of this sport before we admit that he is probably top three pound for pound…

Is this true? Sherdog and Yahoo have him at three while ESPN has him at four. Your premise is flawed since everyone recognizes that Jon is something special. Even Snowden thinks he’s the best in the world, and he never agrees with popular opinion.

by M.Sphinx on Dec 11, 2011 8:00 AM EST reply actions  

By “we,” I mean fans. The kind of fans who nitpick the hell out of him after every fight.

JDS, Jones, Florian, Frankie

by Crackity Bones on Dec 11, 2011 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

I (and a lot of fans) may not like him, but most people admit that he’s top 4 p4p.

Fuck you, double fingers
- Nick Diaz
Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society
- Mark Twain

by TheLastEmpress on Dec 11, 2011 3:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Doesn’t change the fact that every fight is now assumed to be about revealing Jones’s Achilles’ heel. Hell, look at MMA Fighting right now- they’ve already got an article up about whether or not Rashad or Hendo will be the one to take him out. When Silva wins, I don’t recall seeing too many, “Will Okami or Munoz be the one to beat Anderson?” articles.

JDS, Jones, Florian, Frankie

by Crackity Bones on Dec 11, 2011 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

The same trend occurred for Machida when he was undefeated, same for Cain, same for anyone who has not lost yet. It is ok to try and “figure out” a fighter.

We’ve already seen Anderson lose, and we already know where he is weakest at, so he and Jones are not comparable.

by M.Sphinx on Dec 11, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Jones is not, technically, undefeated. And most people seemed quite confident in Cain being a long-term champion. Granted, some people did think Junior would beat him (I did, too), but there was nothing like this.

“Figuring out” a fighter does not have to include speculating with regards to his ultimate downfall. Some people are analyzing Jones like he’s the central figure of a Greek drama, trying to figure out his tragic flaw. Maybe- just maybe- he doesn’t have a tragic flaw, but will rather be beaten by someone who has a good night and a great skill set, just like Jones.

JDS, Jones, Florian, Frankie

by Crackity Bones on Dec 11, 2011 7:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh really?
Jones is not, technically, undefeated.

What was your point in bringing this up?

And most people seemed quite confident in Cain being a long-term champion.

Don’t you think the same is being said about Jones? Have a read around the internet. I’ll wait.

"Figuring out" a fighter does not have to include speculating with regards to his ultimate downfall. Some people are analyzing Jones like he’s the central figure of a Greek drama, trying to figure out his tragic flaw.

I could bring up hundreds of articles written about Cain’s chin, Fedor’s propensity to get cut, Anderson’s wrestling, etc. I could find examples of articles speculating precisely how to beat every single fighter considered the top of their division. You’ve probably read plenty yourself.

You’re acting like this isn’t standard procedure, and you’re arguing against a subset of fans that probably don’t exist.

by M.Sphinx on Dec 12, 2011 8:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Sherdog had a poll for how long Jones would be champion. Something like 60% said he would lose the belt before 2013.

JDS, Jones, Florian, Frankie

by Crackity Bones on Dec 22, 2011 2:13 AM EST up reply actions  

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