Early UFC 139 Estimated Buyrate: 270,000
As usual, the guru Dave Meltzer is the first person to throw out a number in regards to the UFC 139 buyrate. And while no one was really expecting a huge number and this is just an early indicator of the final tally - this isn't good. Here's what he had to say in this week's Wrestling Observer (subscription required):
Very early estimates indicate the PPV numbers are going to fall very slightly less than UFC 138, so a first estimate would be around 270,000, although more accurate numbers won’t be available for two weeks.
The key thing here is the last bit - this is not the final number. But let's be honest. The number isn't likely to double in the next two weeks, so this event will be another in a long line of disappointing PPV buyrates that stretches back all the way to UFC 130. With the exception of UFC 135 (which did about 475k), every card has done under 350k. And the last three have all been under 280k, if this number holds steady.
There are many things that can be used to justify the low buyrates - injuries to major stars like Georges St. Pierre and Brock Lesnar, the Fox deal taking away a PPV windfall fight, etc. With only two PPV's left in 2011, the UFC is guaranteed to be way down in PPV revenue and buys compared to 2010, even if they drew a gigantic number for UFC 141. Sure, UFC on Fox was a huge success and a big positive for the sport. But in terms of PPV, which Dana says will continue to be the core of their business model -is there cause for concern yet?
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Wow, yikes that… that’s not good.
I had a theory that we’d see a good buyrate for this one as new viewers impressed by the UFC on FOX fight gave a full-fledged PPV a shot… but wow that theory couldn’t have been more wrong. Just… wow.
This was just about expected
and I think it’s quite obvious that the PPV model is losing more and more steam. The UFC needs to only put MEGA cards on PPV from here on out, and they need to really PROMOTE the damn cards.
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by ElliotMatheny on Nov 24, 2011 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
PPV will be the most profitable way all the way down to 100-150k
The mega-card route isn’t going to get them any more total buys. There’s very little potential audience that passes on events with Brock, GSP, Silva, and LHW title fights due to the presence of other cards, so getting rid of those events will only decrease total revenue.
100k is probably the cutoff where you can start arguing that they would get more total money from free TV.
by paythefighters on Nov 24, 2011 11:42 PM EST up reply actions
Is that a guess, or has someone done a study?
Not trying to be confrontational. Just curious.
I discussed this with nottheface a little bit ago
250k is about the break even point for UFC PPVs. Any lower than that and they’re not paying back their debt.
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by ElliotMatheny on Nov 25, 2011 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
What does debt have to do with it?
The UFC isn’t going to make $8M (estimated revenue from 250k PPV) on top of gate any other way, so how is <250k the point where they benefit from a different model?
Even with PPV cuts going to fighters, that usually only happens after they reach a certain number of buys. I don’t know how you and nottheface figure otherwise. He’s usually really good with this sort of stuff.
by paythefighters on Nov 27, 2011 3:40 AM EST up reply actions
UFC 138 had over 270,000 buys?!?!
I just watched mine for free……………………. On Spike TV heh.
numbers were going to be down on last year anyway (no Evans/rampage, lesnar losing). With the end of the Spike deal plus the addition of new weight classes this was always gonna be a down year for the UFC,s ppv business. If numbers decline for the 6.5 million or so there likely to finish at this year after a year on Fuel/FX & Fox then I will start to worry.
If S&P aren’t worried by the ppv decline then I won’t worry either
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by MattParker117 on Nov 24, 2011 10:10 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Ouch,
Rough numbers. It’s not a good sign, I expected some higher numbers after the Fox debut.
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Let me get this straight
After watching something for FREE on network television you expect new fans to drop $45 to $55 on a ppv the weekend before black Friday in one of the worst economic climates in American history?
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by The Blackula on Nov 24, 2011 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
If they want to keep the PPV model
they need less events. More demand = more buys, greater supply = less demand.
Hopefully they just start getting paid inf like real sports leagues do: from the networks. ‘Murikah gets to watch NFL, MLB, NBA (lol) and NHL (MLS too? WNBA?) on free or basic cable 100% of the time. Here’s hoping the UFC gets to that level.
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by Cory Braiterman on Nov 24, 2011 10:14 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Exactly.
Once Zuffa stops trying to be the WWE, things should get better. They should be doing 2-3 stacked PPVs a year.
by javiermolina on Nov 24, 2011 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t know if that’s necessarily the case. You get these crazy stacked cards with four or five guys with PPV cuts, and the overheard is substantial.
Poorly in ppv buys, but not in performance.
All I can really add is that PPV numbers are down,
but the fights are still good.
As people have mentioned, the declining ppv buys are probably mainly down to an over saturation. too many back to back events.
The UFC (DW’s) response when questioned by journalist about there being too many fights is that there is a NFL, NBA game every weekend and people never seem to complain. However, what he fails to address is; fans of those nfl/nba/mlb/nhl aren’t paying for ppv’s to watch games. Most of the UFC events are, and there number are suffering from that fact.
After you’ve paid you Direct tv / cable package subscription, you can watch all the games [nba/nfl/mlb/nhl] at no additional cost.
I’m just happy the performances by the fighters is still good to watch. No complaints from me.
I’m sure their [zuffa] long term goal would be to move more fights onto network tv when they can demand more revenue and have fewer PPV. Reserving the PPV for big fights, title etc.
by higgledy-piggledy on Nov 24, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
Horrible.
It saddens me how how cards like this with legends and guaranteed wars get looked over for GSP cards where he just takes a bath in vaseline and dances without touching his opponent.
by Matt Nelson on Nov 24, 2011 10:15 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Takes a bath in vasaline?
You sound like a butt hurt BJ fan. Get over it BJ loss accept it like a man.
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by Bloodsport on Nov 24, 2011 10:23 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
No.
Everyone is a fan of BJ, and I was actually rooting for GSP in that fight anyway…but the fact is he had vaseline all over him…just watch the videos.
The greasing had nothing to do with my comment really…I’m just saying he’s a finely tuned athlete but really not an exciting fighter.
by Matt Nelson on Nov 24, 2011 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
come on brudda don't backpeddle
Greasing had nothing to do with your comment?
r GSP cards where he just takes a bath in vaseline and dances without touching his opponent
That’s about half your comment.
by Body Triangle on Nov 24, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not back-peddling shit 'brudda'
GSP greased in the fight….grease grease grease, he was so greased and smeared with it he slipped in and out of BJ’s guard like a fish.
You’ve chosen to isolate that from what I said and that’s okay…so I’ll give you more…he’s a greasing cheat – he sipped water and whistled dixie whilst knowingly getting rubbed down with it.
want some more?
If you read anything into my comment it was that he’s a boring fighter who puts on shit fights that attract huge attention.
by Matt Nelson on Nov 24, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
So if he dances without toching his opponent
How did he break Koscheck’s face in the 1st round?
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With one punch...
In twenty-five minutes.
by Matt Nelson on Nov 24, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
Try one hundred thirty six strikes
He landed more offense on Koscheck than anyone ever has.
He landed as much offense on Shields as anyone has (Ellenberger just landed a bit more solidly than Hendo and GSP).
He landed more offense on Alves than anyone has.
He landed more offense on BJ than anyone has. And no, grease had jack shit to do with it. BJ barely touched the parts that Nurse rubbed, and his legs slid down an ungreased Gomi in precisely the same manner as on GSP. What’s your excuse there?
Just wait till GSP fights Diaz – someone who tries to win rather than just survive a decision by backpedaling, eye-gouging, or simply having no intent to win:
I went in there, basically hoping to show I didn’t have any quit in me. After the fight I was like, ‘That really couldn’t have gone any better.’ If I had knocked him out, they would have said it was a lucky punch. But the fact I got my a— kicked for 25 minutes and survived, people said, ‘Well, he’s not on the same level technically, but he’s game.Pretty much sums up GSP’s last four opponents.
Just wait for the Diaz fight.
by paythefighters on Nov 25, 2011 2:21 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
not to mention the fact that
GSP IS ME
by Beast Infection on Nov 25, 2011 12:19 AM EST up reply actions
Am I the only one who thinks the economy plays a major role in the numbers?
I have a job but I dont buy as many as I used to because I save money just in case I am layed off. When I was layed off a year ago I didnt buy any ppvs. I am sure I am not the only one.
No you're not the only one
But some people are more fond of the Chicken Little angle…
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yep
I’m hurting for money big time also, and I find anyway I can watch for free I can, normally that means finding a bar that doesn’t charge cover, but I’ve been known to use other methods.
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I bought UFC Rio with some extra cash I earned over the summer
but that is the last PPV I’ve bought since UFC 117
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to be fair, they hardly promoted this card at all.
All of the promotional force went towards UFC on FOX the Saturday prior. Who’s gonna order a show if they don’t know about it?
by The Hamburger Pimp on Nov 24, 2011 10:22 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I think it's only cause for concern if they don't bounce back next year
If they do worse next year, then they’re in trouble. It hasn’t helped with so many fighters dropping out injured or ill, including Lesnar and GSP. They also didn’t capitalise on Evans vs Jones which was purely their own fault.
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Wasn’t all their fault. Jones and his "I need surgery…oh wait? Did you just say “Fight Rampage”? Nah, it’s nothing. Sore thumb from countin’ all my money is all!!"-thing had some part in it as well.
"A belt only covers two inches of your ****and the rest you need to back up on your own." Royce Gracie (allegedly...I just read it somewhere and thought it was cool for my sig!)
Both ended up fighting different opponents within a month of each other
It’s not stopped the changing fights around before. Just look at the whole Nick Diaz situation.
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I know. But we don’t know all the parameters that went into that decision. Maybe they had to make certain arrangements that couldn’t be changed back anymore when Jones canceled his surgery-plans, maybe Rampage would’ve gone off to make another movie if they didn’t keep him active or whatever. I think the way the whole thing played out and given that the UFC usually is pretty solid in matchmaking aso.
"A belt only covers two inches of your ****and the rest you need to back up on your own." Royce Gracie (allegedly...I just read it somewhere and thought it was cool for my sig!)
The current model is not going to see the types of numbers they were seeing 1.5 years ago. Those days are over unless they reduce the number of PPV’s and start doing more free shows. I basically don’t pay for ppv as a rule. Combination of raising the rates as well as raising the number of ppv’s eventually did me in and I only buy maybe one a year, where I was buying 5-8 a year. I’m sure this is the case for many out there.
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hijacking thread because it's fresh
why no TUF this week?
Now I've switched signature to this one.
by the guy with the big nose on Nov 24, 2011 11:13 AM EST reply actions
Because it would have aired the night before Thanksgiving in the US, I'm guessing
"Complacency is your demise." - Kerry King
ok thanks, so it's turkey season?
that was probably the best meal I ever had when I studied in the US for a year, man I though I was gonna explode.
Now I've switched signature to this one.
by the guy with the big nose on Nov 24, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
Turbaconepicentipede – Epic Meal Time
"If you say Chael Sonnen I will light you on fire." -- Farthammer.
tell me again why the US have trouble with obesity?
Now I've switched signature to this one.
by the guy with the big nose on Nov 24, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
The EpicMealTime guys are Canadian, thank you very much.
by The so-called Beautiful on Nov 24, 2011 12:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
so?
the US stil have a problem with obesity
Now I've switched signature to this one.
by the guy with the big nose on Nov 24, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
yes
but it is not because of EpicMealTime. They are Canada’s fault.
YOU CAN ENTER BUT YOU WILL LEAVE WITH OUT A SOUL - Abayarde
by Andy Anderson on Nov 24, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
true
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SDrqa-eTXU&feature=related
Now I've switched signature to this one.
by the guy with the big nose on Nov 24, 2011 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
The UFC?
Is that company still in business??? I’ve been reading about their failed business plans and issues for them to be concerned about for years now on online blogs. Shouldn’t the UFC be on Bloody Elbow’s tombstone by now?
"If you say Chael Sonnen I will light you on fire." -- Farthammer.
by IKiIIed007 on Nov 24, 2011 11:14 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
That wasn’t funny.
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by Tim Burke on Nov 24, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Apparently I’m the guy who is forecasting doom and gloom.
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by Nate Wilcox on Nov 25, 2011 7:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
i've been vindicated
The UFC trained fans they could skip ppvs and not miss anything. They used to have a floor of over 300K buys for even the weakest event. They flooded the market with too many weak ppvs and are now paying the price.
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by Nate Wilcox on Nov 25, 2011 7:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Oversaturation
There used to be a PPV every 6-8 weeks, now you have at least 1 per month and often 2. They need less PPV’s and more free cards to build up the PPV numbers again.
Can’t believe anyone could be expecting new fans to drop $60 on the PPV a week after seeing a superhyped fight go 60 seconds. If JDS v Cain had looked like Shogun v Hendo then maybe.
Business Models
A couple of things are going on here. The UFC is trying to cross-over and pick up more of the big four sports fans, i.e., NFL, NBA, NHL and MLB fans. Let’s call them the casual fans to distinguish them from the hardcore mma fans. That is what the Fox deal is all about. At the same time, the ufc wants to keep its ppv model and channel those new fans into it. But there are a couple of problems.
The casual fans are not used to paying for content. You can watch your heart’s content of football and baseball on TV and never drop a dime outside of maybe paying for beers at a sports bar. Some of these casual fans might shell out an extra $10 a month to get a premium cable channel. But even those fans are few and far between. That is why these specialty cable channels put pressure on the cable providers to pay for the channels but put them on “basic cable.”
At the same time, the UFC is trying to grow revenue by increasing the number of ppv events a year. But as the cross-over is not happening, ppv buy rates are declining as the ufc increases the number of events a year. As pointed out above, demand has not increased, but supply has.
And 2011 is probably a much worse year for the ppv model than even the low buy rates would suggest. Think of it this way. If 10 ppv shows in 2010 produced gross revenues of $100,000,000, and 20 shows in 2011 produced the same gross, the gross is the same but your costs have doubled.
The UFC is DONE!!!
I just wanted to fit in.
So has anyone figured out how bar showings factor in to the numbers, if at all?
The bigger question, if the UFC has trouble getting people to pay for their cards, how does Meltzer get people to pay for his content???
A couple of things. yes, the UFC is skewing towards the ways of the major pro sports leagues with their business model. Anyone who thinks the economy is not a factor is crazy. Anyone who thinks the economy is the only reason is also crazy. It is clear that the “old established guys” are done and new stars need to be grown. Hopefully, being on Fox will do this. Guys like Liddell, Hughes, Couture, BJ on and on, are either gone or greatly diminished draws. Even Anderson is nearing the end. HW and LHW has had a revolving door lately. So outside of GSP, that leaves Edgar. I hope they arent counting on him to draw eyeballs. The thing is, every sport goes through these periods, where a new generation of superstars need to rise up and I think that has something to do with what we are seeing. Lastly, the UFC needs Lesnar to get back and be healthy while they groom a replacement for him. Maybe AO?
"Okay, Lindsay, are you forgetting that I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist."
This is not good news, but there are other factors going on. The economy is one, and people just don’t have the money to pay for UFC PPVs. Possible over-saturation is another. Injuries to the top stars is another factor, but with this card, that really isn’t a factor. Lack of advertisement hurts as well especially with the relations between the UFC and SpikeTV. Dana said that they are in a transition period right now, and that’s hurting business.
The other thing to look at is UFC on Fox. The thing is that these “new” viewers to the UFC obviously didn’t order this PPV, and while the initial ratings for UFC on Fox were very good, the real success is going to be in the potential followup. You get all these viewers watching JDS vs Velasquez, and the UFC gets a good rating, but they aren’t ordering the PPVs, and at best, they may watch more free content from the UFC.
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The economy has been bad all year
But UFC 126 and 129 did very good numbers.
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
if your numbers go down
there is cause for concern. not panic maybe, but concern.
we can speculate all we want about the reasons. it is likely a host of factors, including the economy.
but at least one of them has to be that for some people, their interest in MMA was either a bit of fad rather than something that really made a lasting impression, or was driven by particular athletes (GSP, Lesnar, Rampage, TUF guys, etc.) more than a love for the sport itself.
as it is currently constituted, i believe that MMA has hit a bit of plateau (until the next big star gets firmly established, whether that’s jon jones or whatever).
it will be very, very interesting to see how ufc does on fox.
What are typical fixed and variable costs for a run-of-the-mill LPG?
It may be that doing up to 15 modest ppvs makes more profit than 6 mega ones depending on the cost structure. As someone said a star-studded mega event means the UFC give up more of the pie and if there is a theoretical ceiling of say 2.5 million buys which they probably could not reach more than a couple of times a year, I could see how lots of smaller events and the occasional major one might make sense.
by SDD on Nov 24, 2011 12:04 PM EST via mobile reply actions
MMA will never surpass Boxing
As much as I’m a huge fan of the UFC/mma, I gotta say there’s seems to be a show on every week,& were just gettn a lot of of diluted shows. The major US sports Nfl,Mlb,Nba are seasonal sports not year round. Imo that helps keep the fans from gettn burned out. Less is sometimes better.
by Hankverdee on Nov 24, 2011 12:54 PM EST via mobile reply actions
So basically the UFC needs pro wrestling to get good PPV buys
This is what it’s become. GSP is exempt because he’s GSP.
Brock is their best draw. Silva/Sonnen drew so well because Sonnen did his thing. But when Sonnen compliments Stann the buyrate is horrible.
Rampage/Rashad did a million buys because of a full season of TUF and plenty of drama.
No one understands what the hell Nick Diaz is saying no matter how much he trash talks so he probably won’t draw well.
It’s becoming undeniable fact now. The UFC’s terrible job of marketing the fighter instead of the brand is hurting their PPV buyrates and guys like Chael take it upon themselves to do the selling for them.
This FOX deal better work out and work out well.
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
Too much emphasis on PPV buys as a barometer
Their Fox revenue will replace the gross from about 2 million PPV per year. PPV will soon be nothing but icing on the cake rather than the mainstay of their financial health. As their international TV deals are put in place, they’ll have a healthy, reliable, growing revenue stream that’s virtually impervious to the vagaries of fighter injuries, lack of marquee main events, etc.
Its pretty clear that a lot of this has to do with Spike
We are in the middle of a transitional period right now where Spike has withdrawn its cooperative support, but the UFC won’t be picked up by the Fox machine until 2012.
If we see numbers like this, say, this time next year, then we have a problem. Nothing to see hear yet though folks.
Head conductor of the Charles Oliveira hype train.
If it's pretty clear
Maybe you could do a better job of explaining the connection between Spike and the ppv buys.
I bought it because I thought Rua/Hendo might be a good fight. Being a huge Wanderlai fan, his presence on the card is what convinced me to push the buy button on my remote. Without Silva, I probably wouldn’t have bought it.
Spike Tv had nothing to do with my decision. How much money I have in bank right now and who was fighting did.
by Ironbuddha on Nov 24, 2011 4:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
People on BE aren't representative
Lots of people don’t know these fights take place. Thats where promotion comes in. Those people are the difference between 270k and 600k or more.
Head conductor of the Charles Oliveira hype train.
NOTHING TO SEE HERE.
“Move along, folks. Nothing to see here. The UFC is fine. The numbers aren’t down at all. UFC is still as popular as ever. We still appeal to the lowest common denominator and they have not moved onto the next fad. Nothing to see here, folks!”
I really think it’d be awesome if the UFC looked into offering a Sunday Ticket type of option, where for $199 bucks or so, you get to watch all their PPV content for a year; or at least lower the price to $29 ($39 for HD) on all non-title PPVs if they expect people like myself (who never miss a PPV) to keep buying all these cards.
That $350K to Cung Le really worked out didn't it?
Maybe Dana will realize now that since it’s a sport now and just some fad that caters to the lowest common denominator, he can stop making actors and WWE wrestlers who get scared to death the second they have to eat a real punch, the highest paid guys in the ‘sport’
It’s a slap in the face to every guy who put their lives into making this sport what it is just so actors can come in and reap all the benefits.
Newsflash!
The global economy blows.
I raise money for a charity for a living. The last 4 months have been awful for charitable giving. I can see consumer confidence ebb and flow week to week, and right now it is really shitty.
I’m not at all surprised to see fewer PPV buys. And I don’t think it says anything about the UFC.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.

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