Junior dos Santos thinks Velasquez may have had knowledge of his pre-fight injury:
Yes, (I did) have an injury in my left knee 10 days before the fight. We knew his strategy would be to take me down. I don’t know if he had knowledge of my injury but in a minute and four seconds he kicked me in the knee seven times, so he probably knew (about the injury), so much so that he accepted the fight standing, something I think he wouldn’t do otherwise because it wouldn’t be smart for him to do that.
via SporTV
This fanshot was front-paged by Tim Burke
6 months ago
Orcus
61 comments
1 recs |
Email
PrintComments
People are going to dismiss this
but from what I’ve seen and heard, training at a top camp like XC, this kind of thing is alot more common than you would think. Gray had a nagging knee injury going into the Florian fight, which he had a brace for, and I was asked personally by the staff not to say anything about it.
It’s why Randy has bought another warehouse right next to his current setup- one gym for the general public and amateur team , and a smaller facility next door for the Pro fighters to train in exclusively.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Nov 22, 2011 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t doubt that the knowledge becomes fairly widely known. I heard about Shields’ back injury from an SC guy out there shortly after it happened (couldn’t relay it, but at least it let me hold off betting on him against Kampmann, figuring it being his UFC debut, if he could somehow enter the cage, he would fight).
The more important thing here is that a meniscus tear would not affect the stability of the knee, and so kicking at the knee would be no more or less effective than against an uninjured knee.
Now if he heard the injury was a generic “knee injury” or “knee sprain” then maybe…
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
Never send sheep to kill a wolf.
by The American Ronin on Nov 23, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
Well, if the kicks were hitting the knee directly
then that would for sure cause excruciating pain.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Nov 23, 2011 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
Highly unlikely
A torn meniscus is a very minor injury. I dealt with one for months with only minor discomfort until it ended up essentially folded, mechanically preventing the joint from straightening completely. Even then it was only painful when the joint was attempted to be forcibly straightened for a follow up MRI.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
Never send sheep to kill a wolf.
by The American Ronin on Nov 23, 2011 11:23 PM EST up reply actions
lol
-AboveThisFire
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
If I live in a castle and you want to kill me, storming the gates is probably not the best idea. You'd do a lot better hitting me in the head with a brick when I come out for the mail. -Ryan Hall
I then rip off my shirt and do like a hulk scream and pose and then say to the kid " don’t you no I would fucking destroy you are you fucking retarded? -Areyouforreal
by Patrick Tenney on Nov 22, 2011 9:45 AM EST up reply actions
How DARE you speak like that of Mexican Jesus?!
The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.
Cain Velasquez hired a psychic to monitor JDS' training camp?!
Say it ain’t so…
"Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."
they were using psychological technologies for sure!
in all fairness to JDS, the reporters were kind of egging him on to say that in a way.
I call you, I talk to me - Anderson Silva
JDS counteracted Cain's forbidden psychological technology by gormandizing.
Works every time.
by Rob Young on Nov 22, 2011 6:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
spies everywhere
You can tell alot about a person just by reading their sig.
by RandyCouture'sDivorceLawyer on Nov 22, 2011 4:47 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I like that all Brazilian TV shows look like they're from the 70s.
I honestly do like that.
Read: Toblerone Jones
Junior Dos Santos is in counterintelligence.
In other news, he helped uncover several CIA spooks in Iran and Lebanon!
"If you say Chael Sonnen I will light you on fire." -- Farthammer.
Orcus
You’re invaluable to this site
Moisture is the essence of wetness....Joe
by warren305 on Nov 22, 2011 4:57 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
Rampage jokes aside, JDS does have a point. All Cain did was low kicks, i don’t recall him doing that in any of his fight in the UFC.
He used several low kicks against Nog and in his fight with Stojnic,
but Cain was pretty much ONLY using the low kicks against Junior. Now, part of that is just sound strategy- kick the puncher, punch the kicker, as they say; also, Gonzaga was able to land a few flush low kicks on Junior as well.
But the fact that Cain was pretty much exclusively using the low kicks says to me that he very well could’ve known about Junior’s knee injury.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Nov 22, 2011 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
also, Gonzaga was able to land a few flush low kicks on Junior as well.
When you throw the kick you’re open for the right hand. Gonzaga should have known better. Like Forrest vs Rampage except Forrest survived.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
Well, Gonzaga actually got caught throwing a sloppy left body kick
Junior nailed him flush with the left hook counter. That is the problem with kicking Junior- he rarely checks them, but that’s because he’s looking to jam the kick and counter HARD.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Nov 22, 2011 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
Same concept
Just on the left side.
Most people swing the arm on the side they kick with down. Or at least drop that hand.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
Swinging the arm is fine,
Gabe’s problem is that he dropped his right hand while throwing the left kick; you’re ALWAYS supposed to pin the right hand to your head when you throw a strike from your left side (kick or punch, doesn’t matter).
That was just sloppy, sloppy technique by Gonzaga, rushing in headlong like that with his hands down and chin up.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Nov 22, 2011 10:52 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
That was really sloppy. “Keep the right hand glued” is pretty much day 1 stuff.
I was taught not to swing the arm, to keep the guard up. Its more of a Dutch style, since Dutch Muay Thai is a lot more punching-based.
Its the reason why Western kick boxers eat a lot of Thai guys alive. Thai’s kick without worrying about the punch counter. They also don’t use foot work at all.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
I can't imagine not swinging my arm
but I have seen guys who don’t. Hardonk never seemed to swing his arm down, an he kicked like a mule.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Nov 23, 2011 1:39 AM EST up reply actions
Gonzaga's problem isn't the arm.
It’s the shoulder. Swing your arm all you want, unless you turn your torso the additional 90º to get your kicking shoulder in front of your chin, you’re gonna eat counterpunches.
Share for share, share alike, you'll get struck each time I strike.
Well, you definitely want your shoulder up,
but Gonzaga’s real problem is that he’s swinging the wrong arm. You throw a left kick, you throw the left arm down (with your shoulder up/ chin down), and your right arm pinned to your head to avoid the EXACT COUNTER that JDS nails him with.
Gonzaga is a dude who always had good offense and piss poor defense.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Nov 23, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
Gabe actually swung the right arm
while throwing the kick.
How awkward? You almost have to practice that kind of terrible technique.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
He also telegraphs that kick like a mofo and is kind of too close to throw it (unless his computer estimated that JDS will move backwards…).
"I'm not the best, but I'm capable of achieving the impossible" - Anderson Silva
by dancingChicken on Nov 23, 2011 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
But the fact that Cain was pretty much exclusively using the low kicks says to me that he very well could’ve known about Junior’s knee injury.
Why? You said yourself it makes perfect sense to attack the knee and it is consistent with Cain’s style.
There’s literally no good reason to speculate that he had possibly ill-gotten info and was exploiting it. Doing so is unfair and irresponsible.
"Who are you and how the hell did you get in here?"
"I'm a locksmith... and i'm a locksmith."
I said that he COULD'VE known about the injury.
10 days is a long time to keep something like that quiet, and there are many people that have worked with AKA, have trained with Cain, are sponsored by the same guys as team Nogueira. It isn’t completely far fetched to think that Cain somehow got a tip off onto Junior’s knee. And I don’t even consider that unethical really, you’re crazy to not take any advantage you can in this game.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Nov 23, 2011 1:43 AM EST up reply actions
It would have made much better strategic sense
for JDS to work on Cain’s lead led, to tear down his ability to shoot. I thought it was a bit odd at the time too, but more of a feeling out thing…
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
Never send sheep to kill a wolf.
by The American Ronin on Nov 23, 2011 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
I made a comment of
Cain knowing about that knee injury after that fight and caught hell for it. I’m glad I’m not the only one who felt that way.
Just Breed!
by ScoreCardOTN on Nov 22, 2011 5:32 PM EST via mobile reply actions
And Unabomberman replied to my comment
Cheap-ass accusation. Classy.
Here you go Unabomberman. Dos Santos must be making a “cheap-ass accusation”, too. We already knew Junior was “Classy”, though.
Just Breed!
by ScoreCardOTN on Nov 22, 2011 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
It's a cheap-as accusation. No? How 'bout some evidence other than circumstantial oppinion? No? Okay...
Don’t ba mad, brah.
The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.
by Unabomberman on Nov 22, 2011 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
Look at Warbreezy's comment
a few comments down. There’s your evidence, brah.
Just Breed!
by ScoreCardOTN on Nov 23, 2011 9:11 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I thought cain had a good game plan going into the fight his leg kicks looked really good junior just had his number that night cain will fight him again somewhere down the road
by youfailme91 on Nov 22, 2011 5:48 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I would personally need some verification of a snitch to believe this
Cain’s game plan seemed to be to land a lot of low kicks to soften JDS’s legs and then go for the takedowns. Unfortunately for him, he wasn’t able to execute the latter part of the plan.
Exactly you already know he was setting up the takedown junior was just too crisp that night with his punches
by youfailme91 on Nov 22, 2011 6:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If you extrapolate that rate or the coarse of the fight
You’d get almost 33 legs kicks in the first round, and over 165 over the course of the whole fight. How many times have you seen somebody threw that many leg kicks? Also, I remember most of them being inside leg kicks, which is a little odd, since they’re both orthodox fighters.
Yeah, I don’t remember seeing Cain do a lot of leg kicks in the past, which would be the real telling point. Why would he all of a sudden start with Junior? The guy isn’t a threat to take you down, and although bad legs affect punching power, it typically isn’t the strategy why you’re fighting a striker. But I could be wrong.
I was surprised at all the kicks to the leg though thrown by Cain though, at the time.
my band
http://www.groggybikini.com
I don't think you can really extapolate that
A fighter isn’t necessarily going to do the same thing for 25 minutes that he did in the 1st minute. Not a dynamic, champion caliber fighter anyway.
actually GSP kinda did that against KOS, but still!!
No, your dumb
by RashadsLeftNipple on Nov 22, 2011 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
Cain was just using a good strategy, to soften JDS up b4 going for the takedown. Just got dropped n finished with a routine laser guided missile fired by Jr. Too bad he didn’t make it to plan B.
by Hankverdee on Nov 22, 2011 6:44 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Maybe someone at Zuffa has a big mouth?
Seems possible.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
exactly what i was thinking
Dana clearly wanted cain to win. Whether he’d pull a dirty move like that though, i cant be sure. It would be something id see him being very strictly against. But of course it could have been some random person who knows. This is all assuming that cain did in fact know
"I will beat you into a living death" – Ken Shamrock
by mpk46 on Nov 23, 2011 12:43 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
i dont think Cain knew about his injury
If Cain knew about JDS’ injury then we would have seen JDS on his back.
Anyway, I dont know why JDS is saying these things, he demolished Cain, end of story.
I am willing to test myself against the toughest fighters in the world, in front of hundreds of thousands or even millions of fans, over and over again. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose, but I always come to fight. I've been doing this for the past fourteen years, and I have at least a few more strong years left in me. What have you done in the past fourteen years other than act like a moron on this forum and hang on Anderson's nuts? - Dan Henderson.
That's the rub,
if Cain truly knew about JDS’ injury, a meniscus tear, then he would not have altered his strategy at all as it does not affect the stability of the knee.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
Never send sheep to kill a wolf.
by The American Ronin on Nov 23, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
Cain used leg kicks to maintain distance and setup TDs.
If he knew about it I think he would have done more than kick at a distance.
So?
What is supposed to be the problem here? That Cain exploited an opponent’s injury, or that he might have learned of that injury through illegal or dishonorable means? If the first, then I’d say that Cain’s job is to win the fight, and exploiting an opponent’s weaknesses is just smart fighting. If the second, I remain unconcerned. A fighter’s knee injury isn’t a matter of national security. There are dozens of ways that Cain might have found about it, most of which do not require a spy or any kind of dirty behind-the-scenes maneuvering.
People on this thread seem to think there is a problem. There’s an exchange between ScoreCardOTN ad Unabomberman about whether the “accusation” that Cain knew about the injury was fair or not. ElliotMatheny says people will dismiss it, as if it’s something that is significant enough that it shouldn’t be dismissed. There seems to be a general idea that if Cain did know about the injury, then it’s possible he did something sleazy or unethical. So I’d say that most of this thread is about there being a problem.
from what I’ve read, most people are debating weather Cain knew about the injury before hand or not. There’s nothing unethical from Cain’s side, weather he knew it or not, he fights to win as he should. There is however something unethical from JDS’ camp if someone leaked that information, this is not about Cain at all, he should do what he needs to do to win fights.
I call you, I talk to me - Anderson Silva
I must say that's a lovely shade of lipstick Cigano's wearing
I didn’t notice Sephora on his sponsor banner before the fight though.
"Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bloody Elbow
Related FanShots on Bloody Elbow
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
MMA Rankings
