Antonio Margarito vs. Miguel Cotto 2 - Understanding the Margarito Licensing Situation
One thing that has been requested has been a little more boxing coverage here at Bloody Elbow, so going forward we'll touch on major boxing events and recap the weekend's action. But your home for the best boxing coverage at SB Nation is still Bad Left Hook, so make sure you keep up with things there as well. We'll be starting our new boxing coverage with a two part feature on the Antonio Margarito vs. Miguel Cotto fight, today discussing Margarito's issues acquiring a license for the rematch scheduled for December 3 and tomorrow diving into the incredible marketing of the fight.
The very mention of Antonio Margarito's name is enough to strike up an immediate emotional reaction from most combat fans. Margarito went from on top of the world after defeating Miguel Angel Cotto in a thrilling fight in July of 2008 he got a fight with Shane Mosley in January 2009. During the hand wrapping process for the Mosley fight, Shane's trainer noticed Margarito's wraps had a strange substance on them. The wraps were eventually found to have plaster of paris on them, which would have hardened to give him a dangerous advantage in the bout.
Margarito would have to have his hands re-wraped and would then go on to take a vicious beating at the hands of Mosely in "Sugar" Shane's last great performance.
The end result of the handwrapping controversy was a year suspension of Margarito's boxing license by the state of California and a reputation that will never recover.
Margarito is set to face Cotto in a rematch on December 3 in New York City. Cotto feels that his loss the first time around can't be fully accepted as Margarito may have cheated and Antonio is looking to prove that he didn't cheat the first time and won't need to this time either.
Unfortunately for fight fans excited to see the bout, Margarito has been having trouble acquiring a license from the NYSAC because of a surgically repaired eye.
Some may be wondering why Margarito is even able to apply for a license after the plaster situation. The answer has multiple parts:
- The blame was put on Margarito's trainer, Javier Capetillo. He claims he simply picked up wraps off a table as he was in a rush and it was not an intentional act. During the hearing with the commission Margarito threw Capetillo under the bus, saying he didn't understand why he would do such a thing.
- The commission couldn't pin the fault on Margarito, finding that he actually did nothing wrong and may well have been ignorant of the entire situation.
- Finally, the biggest part of why the suspension wouldn't have held up for over a year. In cases like these, there are standard evidence handling guidelines. It appears that there were serious problems with the chain of custody of the evidence the evening of the Mosley fight. The wraps appear to have changed hands several times during the hours that followed, including spending time with multiple members of Mosley's camp. This prevented further action from being taken, including possible legal action against Margarito and his camp.
So while it's easy to get upset with the fact that Margarito is allowed to fight, it also requires some acknowledgement of the California State Athletic Commission's failures.
More on the current state of Margarito's license after the jump.
November of 2010 saw Margarito return to an American boxing ring for the first time since his suspension to face Manny Pacquiao. Margarito displayed a ton of heart as he took a violent beating at the hands of Pacquiao for twelve rounds.
After the fight it was determined that Margarito suffered a fractured orbital bone which required surgery to fix. He then had to have an additional surgery done to repair the lens of his eye. That second surgery was done by one of the leading experts in the field and he declared the work a success. However, hose two surgeries and the health of Antonio's eye have the NYSAC hesitant to grant a license. Recent shots of Margarito on HBO's 24/7 series show where some of that concern comes from (repaired eye is Margarito's right):
New York held a hearing on Friday which ended with a determination that if a NYSAC chosen doctor cleared Margarito, they would grant the license. This forced Margarito to break camp in Mexico to fly into
While it is admirable for the NYSAC to look out for the health of a fighter, it's the way which they went about the situation that has many people upset. Back on September 20 one of the most vocal members of the licensing board, Melvina Lathan, appeared at a Top Rank press conference and said the following (via Bad Left Hook):
"Whenever Bob comes to town, he comes to town and really throws out the red carpet. That's what we need in New York. I can't tell you how proud, how happy we are at the commission to have such a beginning of Madison Square Garden, once she has a new facelift that is, that we are going to be the ones to help open it. This is a great show, both shows are going to be a great show (Donaire vs Narvaez on October 22), and we're just really looking forward to these exciting -- both evenings of boxing.
"I have a great crew, which in part helps to maintain and make sure that everything is safe as far as the welfare, the safety of the boxers are concerned. Without that crew and their dedication, the state athletic commission just would not be, and I am very happy to have them on my team. I applaud them myself. Come out to the show, know that everything is going to go well, and best of luck to both participants. Thank you again."
So just two months back one of the people holding out on the license was attending a press conference and assuring the public that the fight would go off without a hitch. That led to great ticket sales to see the fight at Madison Square Garden with fans booking flights and hotels only to be told mere weeks out that the fight may be a no-go.
Steve Kim of Max Boxing suggests that this may have all been a plan by New York to wait until it was too late to move the fight and then force Top Rank to switch out Margarito for a late replacement. This would have kept the big selling fight in the state without allowing the controversial Margarito to fight in the state. Kim explains the flaw in New York's thinking if that were the case:
While the live gate is an important facet of any promotion, with fights like Cotto-Margarito II, it actually pales in comparison to the pay-per-view possibilities. Yeah, the Garden might seat around 20,000 patrons (and, from what I'm told, is scaled for a gate of $3.4 million) but if this card does 300,000 pay-per-view buys, that means right around $7.5 million for the promotion. And while the "Kangaroo Court of Gotham City" believed it may have pushed Top Rank to the point of no return, they were really at the point of no return regarding Cotto-Margarito. See, the real money in this instance is with the pay-per-view. This was not just an ESPN card where the main event participants are interchangeable. With the expenses for marketing, promoting and advertising already paid, you couldn't have suddenly thrown in a Martirosyan or anyone else on the opposite side of the ledger from Cotto. And with this fight's much-talked about first episode of HBO's "24/7" debuting this weekend, it was another step toward the inevitability of this bout.
The fact that the PPV money trumps the live gate means that Top Rank has already lined up alternative venues for the bout, with the leading candidate apparently being the Pepsi Center in Denver.
The fight will be going down regardless of if it happens in New York. For fight fans, that is a good thing. Margarito and Cotto put on one of the better fights of my lifetime the first time around and a rematch really feels "needed" to finish the story. Top Rank also did something unique and put three potentially great fights on the PPV undercard including a rematch of the fight of the year candidate between Delvin Rodriguez and Pawel Wolak, a Brandon Rios vs. John Murray fight and action fighters Mike Jones and Sebastian Lujan meeting in what could be a great brawl.
New York will hold a hearing today at 3 p.m. ET to announce if Margarito was cleared by their doctor and will be licensed to fight. If not, expect an announcement quickly from Top Rank on the official venue change.
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Would the plaster wraps really make that much of a difference in an untampered glove?
You’d think it’d hurt the guy wearing it more, but he didn’t need the skin on his hands anyway.
"Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."
It’s a 10 oz glove. An mma glove is only 5 but when you look at the area covered (as a boxing glove wraps the whole hand) the impact area has roughly the same padding (only slightly more) than an mma glove. So even extra hand wraps can make a huge difference.
As for the plaster hurting margarito… It’s like punching with a cast. Not only is it custom formed to his hand, but there would also have been something (a few layers of wrap) protecting his knuckles. It’s a huge advantage.
"I’m anti-stalling, not anti-wrestling." - lowellthehammer
http://www.tenacityfighter.info/Tenacity_fighter/Welcome.html
by JaeeJaee on Nov 22, 2011 9:34 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Appreciate the info
My only experience with combat and a plaster cast is some genius in high school clubbing me in the head with his arm (in a cast) who ended up snapping what was just a fracture in the bone and I walked away with nothing but an abrasion on my forehead. I mean… I guess I wouldn’t notice brain damage per se.
"Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."
by menckenstein on Nov 22, 2011 9:42 AM EST up reply actions
Depending on where the break is the cast can sometimes act like armor. But yes, in spite of what many mma fans think, the gloves pro boxers use are not very big at all. If an mma glove wrapped the whole hand it would fall just shy of a boxing glove in weight. Think of a brass knuckle, the principle is the same, the material used just isn’t as strong as brass. Plaster of Paris over a fist is still solid enough to do lethal damage.
"I’m anti-stalling, not anti-wrestling." - lowellthehammer
http://www.tenacityfighter.info/Tenacity_fighter/Welcome.html
by JaeeJaee on Nov 22, 2011 9:52 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
i'm not a doctor, but i play one on the internet.
a fracture is a break. you and i call it a broken bone. doctors call it a fracture. what you are referring to is a partial fracture, meaning the bone did not fracture completely through. and then there is the dreaded compound fracture, which is when the broken bone pierces through the skin.
Yeah he went from an incomplete fracture to Tim Sylvia/Frank Shamrock forearm
"Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."
by menckenstein on Nov 22, 2011 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
i agree
i agree completely with what your saying ,but if you watched the fight Margarito was pushing Cotto back the entire fight. Yes cotto was winning in points through out most of the fight but with out a power punch i don’t see a cotto victory, but i also don’t know the impact plaster has.
I might be in the minority but
I think adding boxing content dilutes BE as an MMA web site, before you know it will become boxing/mma website.
BE has featured articles on judo, jiu-jitsu, wrestling, muay thai, shotokan karate, sambo and shansou.
Why not boxing?
- Nick Diaz trains with Andre Ward.
- JDS is thinking about competing in the Olympics as a boxer.
- Dana White or the Fertitas are still a huge boxing fan. Apparently so is Brent.
- The UFC recently had a washed-up James Toney compete in a circus show bout against Randy Couture.
Boxing is just one of the disciplines used in MMA. It only makes sense to occasionally discuss boxing.
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"but if there's anyone who wants to finish fights it's me." - GSP
by VeeisAnimated on Nov 22, 2011 9:37 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
JDS is thinking about competing in the Olympics as a boxer.
wait, what?!
"So even though it’s the gayest sport ever, MMA is still the best sport ever. I love my gay sport." - Wrestling Uber Alles
Check Mania
I think it’s still in the front page. This would be a plan to 2016 though. His boxing trainer, Luiz Dórea, also trainer of former brazilian pro boxer Acelino "Popó" Freitas says he thinks that JDS got the talent to box at Olympics.
But it really seems like they are just talking, I don’t think they’ll go trough with it.
"To me in this sport, it’s fighting, it’s mixed martial arts, and I feel there’s too many athletes and not enough fighters…I think these people going in taking these sports enhancement drugs, they’re not real fighters, they’re athletes. I’m a fighter. I’m a real fighter. That’s all I did my whole life." - BJ Penn
Sure,
But
we’ll touch on major boxing events and recap the weekend’s actionis more than just occasionally discussing it. I have nothing against boxing but it is a different sport than MMA, just like you won’t see too many Badminton stories on Tennis websites.
That's because
MMA : boxing ≠ badminton : tennis
"So even though it’s the gayest sport ever, MMA is still the best sport ever. I love my gay sport." - Wrestling Uber Alles
Really, guy?
"So even though it’s the gayest sport ever, MMA is still the best sport ever. I love my gay sport." - Wrestling Uber Alles
Sunday mornings aren’t exactly a torrent of articles around here.
Not to mention, i think our website is established enough that 1-2 articles about boxing in a week is really going to alter our reputation in any way.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 22, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
I agree
our website is established enough
I’m a purist, if I want to check boxing I will go to a boxing website. But I understand that boxing stories might generate traffic and business.
all due respect, coeman
you could just skip the boxing articles. it’s not like it’s exhausting to have to scroll a little farther down the screen.
I think mma fans should learn more about other combat sports. I think it will help us better understand the mma game. Personally I am all for it. If I don’t like the content I skip the story, if it involves any facet of mma I think it has a place on BE. Perhaps an “in other news” section would work?
"I’m anti-stalling, not anti-wrestling." - lowellthehammer
http://www.tenacityfighter.info/Tenacity_fighter/Welcome.html
by JaeeJaee on Nov 22, 2011 9:38 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Dood, how the hell are we, MMA fans, supposed to educate ourselves on the finer aspects of the techniques displayed if not exposed to them in a format directly aimed at us?
Bad Left Hook is straight boxing, but many of us are not that well versed on it (though many will just lie and say they are) enough to fully understand what we’re getting exposed on. I can do the work myself, but any little tidbit of help goes a long way.
The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.
by Unabomberman on Nov 22, 2011 10:09 AM EST up reply actions
Heads up Brent., Top NYC boxing official, Melvina Lathan.
Yeah, I was following the coverage on Bad Left Hook. Overall this is definitely a huge clusterf*ck. But when it comes to boxing, Commissions be damned, where there’s a way, there’s a will . . . the show will go on.
I thought Commissions generally respect and uphold decisions from other states. Well I they do it really big in Texas but what about the other 49 states?
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"but if there's anyone who wants to finish fights it's me." - GSP
They haven’t suspended him. They’ve only denied him a license. Denying a license can happen for any number of reasons that aren’t applicable in one state versus another based on what qualifications exist in said state for licensing.
Example: Evander Holyfield was indefinitely suspended by the NYSAC following his loss to Larry Donald to protect his health. Eventually, his license ran out and expired, and when there was no license, there was no suspension. So he was free to fight elsewhere. He went to TX.
by VirtualBalboa on Nov 22, 2011 9:49 AM EST up reply actions
Pretty much this.
The suspension was for a year, he served it then took a fight in Mexico. Then got the Pacquiao fight and got licensed there.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 22, 2011 9:52 AM EST up reply actions
Sounds like a bit of shading dealings on the NY commissions part
I do everything in my life so my family will love me and my friends will respect me. Everyone else can do as they please
by jack knight starman on Nov 22, 2011 9:37 AM EST reply actions
They're pretty awful
New York anything I mean.
"Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."
by menckenstein on Nov 22, 2011 9:44 AM EST up reply actions
Sure NY is very polluted, the traffic stinks but other than that . . . there’s plenty of things to love about NY!
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"but if there's anyone who wants to finish fights it's me." - GSP
by VeeisAnimated on Nov 22, 2011 9:54 AM EST up reply actions
Sorry I meant anything that runs off tax dollars
I’ve had very good experiences in NYC involving food.
"Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."
by menckenstein on Nov 22, 2011 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
MMA is as clean as untouched snow compared to boxing. Margarito was caught loading his gloves to illegally try to break bones in Shane Mosleys face, and he’s earned the two biggest paydays of his career AFTER he and his trainer were found guilty because Bob Arum wanted a big in-house name to fight Manny Pacquiao and Miguel Cotto. I’m a boxing fanatic, but i hope this fight absolutely bombs on PPV.
I find it odd
that people think this fight “needs” to happen. Margarito should never fight again as far as I am concerned—this was much worse than an MMA fighter tweeting something in poor taste. It is a tribute to the UFC that if an MMA fighter or trainer were caught loading a glove at a UFC event , they would never fight in the UFC again.
Perhaps it isn’t practically possible to ban Margarito for life. Nevertheless, top promoters should have enough respect for the sport never to promote a Margarito fight again. Instead, they are reward his behaviour, using it to sell the fight!
I smoke on the mic like Smokin' Joe Frazier
I feel the same way about PED use.
But many would disagree.
At least I'm not a whiny, little bitch.
by Jim America on Nov 22, 2011 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
Two points
both of which dovetail to each other.
It is about impossible for someone to have plaster put on their hands and NOT know it is happening.
Fuck Margarito. He should be banned from the sport for life and not having paydays.
I have said this since day one of the cheating and maintain it to this day.
The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com
by Cory Braiterman on Nov 22, 2011 11:08 AM EST reply actions
so true
and even if he didn’t notice it WHEN it was happening, he obviously would have noticed at the end of the fight – when his fists became rock hard.
i cannot believe this fight is happening.
He tried taking Hydroxycut before the Pacquiao fight
like literally before it, during the hand wrappings. They’re not even smart enough to do it away from the camera.
2 Points
One, love having boxing content on BE. Still get my main fix from BLH, but it’s nice to see a boxing article in an MMA website that somehow doesn’t have to revolve around Bob Arum’s mouth.
Two, seeing Pac Man destroy Margarito was one of the most wholely satisfying ass whippings I’ve ever seen live. If I had been aware of the hand wrap issues during the Mosely fight when I was watching it, that would have been even better.
boxing blehhh
Can we talk only boxing and MMA stories
by icrow on Nov 22, 2011 1:13 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Who's been requesting more boxing coverage?
I find it hard to believe that anything but a small minority would make such a request, considering every time a boxing article pops up half the comments are people complaining that you’re talking about boxing on an MMA website, which I tend to agree with. Most of the time other styles are fighting are discussed on this site, it is at least tangentially related to MMA (i.e. MMA fighters competing in Mundials, MMA fighters competing in kickboxing, or amateur wrestlers that might transition to MMA). Nothing about what you’re talking about has anything to do with MMA. My personal opinion is that that vast majority of boxing matches are boring, because the rules have been designed to artificially lengthen fights (bigger and bigger gloves, no clinching [except to stall the fight], shorter rounds etc.) Everytime I have ordered a boxing PPV by the sixth round or earlier everyone has walked away from the screen because its the same shit almost every time. I’ll never make that mistake again, and frankly I’m tired of hearing about it in any capacity.
Bigger and bigger gloves???
It’s 8 or 10 oz with 10 being the norm. A 10 oz boxing glove is not big at all. I can’t argue with you about what you should and shouldn’t like, but I can tell you a few of your boxing facts aren’t quite accurate.
"I’m anti-stalling, not anti-wrestling." - lowellthehammer
http://www.tenacityfighter.info/Tenacity_fighter/Welcome.html
by JaeeJaee on Nov 22, 2011 5:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Maybe you should check your boxing history first, because gloves have steadily grown in size since the advent of professional boxing in the 1900’s. Additionally, the rules used to allow striking opponents immediately after they stood up, instead of making fighters go to a neutral corner. These are just a few examples of how the rules have evolved to extend the natural length of a fight.
by nomomrnicekyle on Nov 22, 2011 7:02 PM EST up reply actions
From eras long before our own. Boxing has been what it is for over 20 years. Also the gloves are to encourage more punches to be thrown, The fact is an 8 or 10 ounce glove is not much bigger than an mma glove. same with the three minute rounds. They make for far more action then 5 minute rounds. The extended rounds (10-12 as opposed to the 3-5 you see in kickboxing) mean its much more likely a fighter gets stopped. Your statement implies that boxing has somehow changed recently.
"I’m anti-stalling, not anti-wrestling." - lowellthehammer
http://www.tenacityfighter.info/Tenacity_fighter/Welcome.html
by JaeeJaee on Nov 22, 2011 8:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
A lot of people via e-mail, twitter..etc
I seriously don’t get the whining from people about us running 1-2 articles a week. Like somehow it can’t possibly be skipped over.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 22, 2011 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
It comes out to less than half a percent of our weekly coverage. I’m sure everyone will be fine
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 22, 2011 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
It can be skipped over, and if that’s the stance you want to take on your articles then fine. All I’m saying is there are already boxing sites out there and I don’t go there for a reason, just like I come here for one too. I like MMA. I don’t like boxing.
by nomomrnicekyle on Nov 22, 2011 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
Assault in the Ring is a great documentary about a boxer being caught with plastered wraps but, in this case, the fighter being banned for life.
Wasn't it wraps AND modified gloves?
"Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."
by menckenstein on Nov 22, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
Luis Resto, had pretty much all the padding removed from his gloves. Left Collins a shell of a man who died (presumably a suicide) in a car accident.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 22, 2011 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
Hey Brent- ever thought about doing a boxing primer for MMA fans?
It could really be nice for people who watch MMA and not boxing to understand their combat sports cousin. Also might not be bad for guys who used to watch boxing, but don’t keep up anymore (like me.)
Bleacher Report just did a “15 Things to Know about MMA” for the debut on Fox. Maybe a “15 things every MMA fan should know about boxing?”
"It's an odd thing, but anyone who disappears is said to be seen in San Francisco.
It must be a delightful city and possess all the attractions of the next world" - Oscar Wylde
by SanFranpsycho on Nov 22, 2011 4:15 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Boxing articles on BE is not what I come here for!
I do not want to see an article about people who have absolutely zero respect for mma. This site has posted articles/videos/links to several boxer’s interviews w/ them saying something along the lines of: ‘MMA is for queers’, ‘anyone can do it’, ’it’s not a real sport’, etc. etc. etc! This is a money-grab Mr. Brookhouse and quit trying to disguise it as anything else! You think there can be a few more fans dredged up by posting shitty ass articles about boxers that I as an MMA fan to the core (the whole reason I frequent BE) could give 2 shits about! If you wanna do boxing articles, then go over to your precious “bad left hook” and write ’em for that site. But leave BloodyElbow for what it was intended AN MMA SITE WITH MMA ARTICLES!!!!!
Ah, because YOU know what Bloody Elbow was intended for. You’ve been in the position I’ve been since 2006 working for this site in long term strategy meetings.
And if you honestly think that me writing this article or about Kirkland/Angulo is a “money-grab” then I don’t know what to tell you. Because these DON’T do much for traffic. There are better ways to get traffic than writing these.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 22, 2011 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
They don’t do much traffic, huh? Does that suggest anything to you?
by nomomrnicekyle on Nov 22, 2011 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
it suggests to me that he knows the benefits and drawbacks of writing the articles and that if he wants to right them he can deal with the consequences.
by Phildo on Nov 22, 2011 7:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

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