Can Junior dos Santos Give the UFC Heavyweight Division Stability?
Three. That's the number every UFC Heavyweight champion is trying to reach. Three consecutive defenses of the belt. So far, no one has been able to get there, with only three men (Brock Lesnar, Randy Couture and Tim Sylvia) ever defending the belt more than once. After UFC 121, the question was asked of Cain Velasquez - could he break the record? At the UFC on Fox show, Junior dos Santos proved that he couldn't - not yet at least.
So now, it's dos Santos in the hot seat, and the question has to be asked again. Can Junior dos Santos break the record? Can he finally bring stability to the UFC Heavyweight division?
History is not on his side. The Heavyweight title is the oldest belt in UFC history, dating back to the days of men like Dan Severn and Maurice Smith. It's jumped around numerous times, sometimes due to unsuccessful title defenses, sometimes because out of the cage activities have left it vacant. Yet through all these years, no man has made a real claim as the definitive UFC Heavyweight champion the way men like Tito Ortiz, Matt Hughes, and Anderson Silva have done in other divisions.
Perhaps that is simply the nature of the Heavyweight division. With their large frames and heavy hands, Heavyweight fighters add a greater air of unpredictability to their fights, and run the risk of burning out from injury faster. Cain Velasquez is a perfect example. Touted as a possible dynasty building champion, he went down to injury shortly after winning the belt, and in his first defense suffered a 64 second KO loss.
Which brings us back to the new UFC Heavyweight champion, Junior dos Santos. So, can he do it?
My honest opinion? No, he can't. As Joe Rogan and Mike Goldberg like to point out, dos Santos is a specialist. He uses those heavy hands to knock out his opponents, and he's had great success with that so far. He's fought wrestlers like Shane Carwin and jiu jitsu experts like Fabricio Werdum, and he's forced them all to fight his fight - to stand up and trade, and eventually, to fall.
But when I look at the UFC Heavyweight division, I see too many fighters that pose real question marks for dos Santos. Brock Lesnar - can Cigano regain his feet if the massive Lesnar does manage to take the fight to the ground? Alistair Overeem - can dos Santos outstrike a K-1 champion? And what about Strikeforce Heavyweight Josh Barnett - can the champ avoid Barnett's catch wrestling takedowns and ground control? To bring that stability to the division, dos Santos will have to answer each of these questions with a definitive yes, all while staying healthy. It's a tall order, one that has taken down some of the sport's best Heavyweights, and given dos Santos's extreme reliance on those big punches over all else, I'm not sure he can get there.
Of course, if dos Santos can pull it off he can be the man to finally, after over 15 years, stake his claim as the UFC's definitive Heavyweight champion. History may not be on his side, but the power in his right hand definitely is. We'll see which one wins.
SBN coverage of UFC on Fox 1: Velasquez vs. Dos Santos
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I will give him two
but after those two, he will fight Cain Velasquez again and Cain will take the belt from JDS
Matt "The Terror" Serra!!!!
I want me one of those crystal balls.
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by Unabomberman on Nov 15, 2011 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
dude has a magic 8 ball at best.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Nov 15, 2011 12:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
My thoughts exactly
JDS will have to defend the belt twice before Cain is rehabilitated into a contender.
JDS defense #1 – he KOs Lesnar or Overeem
JDS defense #2 – he decisions the Strikeforce GP winner (Barnett / Cormier)
JDS defense #3 – Cain actually shoots for a takedown?
Do you pick every UFC winner? Then play Fantasy MMA
Fantasy MMA!
http://www.faketeams.com/section/fantasy-mma
I remember that he grabbed a kick
Did he really shoot a takedown?
"Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."
by menckenstein on Nov 15, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, he grabbed for Junior's leg, changed levels, and drove forward
which is called a shot where I come from!
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Nov 15, 2011 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
I think he will have a good chance against any opponent but Reem, Brock, Barnett and Cain can have his # on any night it’s just where the fight takes place… and who knows what his knee is going to be like after surgery… do you wanna try and defend a Brock, cain or Barnett shoot on a surgically repaired knee?… do you wanna recieve leg kicks from a K1 striker on a surgically repaired knee? As always thing will probably remain interesting and ever changing in the shallow upper crust of the HW division.
Visit fiveouncesofpain.com
This always seems to happen
Fighter A wins belt in world-beating fashion
Fighter A is injured shortly after fight is announced
Battle for #1 contendership in Fighter A’s absence
Fighter B established as #1 contender
Fighter A returns
Fighter B beats Fighter A and wins belt in world-beating fashion
by Cunny on Nov 15, 2011 2:18 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Barnett would have a helluva time trying to get Junior down and flat on his back,
if Brock has become more accustomed to getting hit then he might have a chance. As for Reem, I think he has all the tools, but his defense in an MMA context is turrible. He needs to completely change his defensive approach while standing, because the gloves are too small in MMA for the turtle shell to work as well as it did in K-1.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Nov 15, 2011 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
I think Junior would just out-cardio Reem over five rounds. Overeem is a great fighter but his conditioning has always been his weakness and the Werdum fight (to me) clearly indicated it still is.
"A belt only covers two inches of your ****and the rest you need to back up on your own." Royce Gracie (allegedly...I just read it somewhere and thought it was cool for my sig!)
Overeem cometh
I know JDS is a super great ultra boxer 3000 but last I checked Overeem was a K1 champion with awesome TDD and an evil guillotine.
"Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."
His TDD isn't going to matter all that much against JDS
And I don’t see that guillotine coming into play either. This is a fight that will be contested standing, and while Overeem has amazing striking credentials outside of MMA, JDS has the much more impressive MMA resume at HW.
I’ll be as excited as anyone if that fight comes off, but I’m not picking someone to out-strike JDS until it happens.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Nov 15, 2011 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
If Overeem's
striking looks like it did against Werdum he is in trouble against JDS.
by nickrodamous on Nov 15, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
Ubereem is the very definition of K-1 level striking.
Take into account how he has gotten fucked sideways by MMA striking before including an atomic block drop against Vovchanchyn.
Him getting KTFO’d at some point wouldn’t surprise me.
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by Unabomberman on Nov 15, 2011 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think Overeem was fighting in the K1 heavyweight grand prix around that time brah.
Any heavyweight getting KTFO at any time wouldn’t surprise me too much but if you’re going to judge off of performances from 5+ years ago then this is Alistair Overeem vs some guy who’s never fought before.
"Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."
by menckenstein on Nov 15, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
All I'm saying is that he's the very definition of K-1 level striking in MMA: Big Game being talked but shady performances in the past.
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by Unabomberman on Nov 15, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think he was participating in K1 during these "shady performances"
Dude only really hulked up within the last 4 years or so, I think the last time he lost in MMA was to Sergei Carrotopnov. He took a lot of big shots in K1 and didn’t get KTFO at all. I don’t think his performances in Pride’s middleweight division are as relevant as you want to make them out to be.
Overeem has very good stand up, end of story.
"Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."
by menckenstein on Nov 15, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
I'm still apprehensive to jump on that pole, bub, but we'll see how it goes if he beats Brock and moves on to fight Junior.
In the case Brock defeats him, it won’t be via stand-up striking. Maybe I’m jus being asinine, I just think I need moar data.
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by Unabomberman on Nov 15, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
Overeem does have holes in his striking defense. Tyrone Spong hurt him a few times in the first round in last year’s GP. If JDS connects with those gloves like Spong did, then it could be over in a flash. Same could be said for Overeem.
by Holls Hoyce on Nov 15, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
JDS is no Spong
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
I'd like to see Spong in the UFC
Hoo baby.
"Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."
by menckenstein on Nov 15, 2011 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
And how many K-1 champs have won gold in MMA?
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
by memitim on Nov 15, 2011 2:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
How many MMA contenders have won K1 gold?
Bv )
that’s me with my sunglasses on.
"Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."
by menckenstein on Nov 15, 2011 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
Mark Hunt, Semmy, Alistair, Gary Goodridge with guys like Saki, Ghita and Spong on the way.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
by memitim on Nov 15, 2011 3:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Goodridge, Ghita, Saki and Spong have never won K-1 gold
And Semmy won after he got out of MMA.
Read: Toblerone Jones
All but Spong won some kind of gold in K-1. I thought Spong did but I was wrong about him. The rest I listed did.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
by memitim on Nov 15, 2011 4:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Man, don't give me that Goodridge was Hawaii champ stuff
Overeem won a Grand Prix.
Read: Toblerone Jones
This was his question:
“How many MMA contenders have won K1 gold?”
That is all.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
by memitim on Nov 15, 2011 4:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
And K-1 gold doesn't mean, some random K-1 belt.
It means the big one. The gold. The OWGP.
Read: Toblerone Jones
And winning the big one in K-1 translates into absolutely nothing in MMA. That’s the point.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
by memitim on Nov 15, 2011 5:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
No, the point wasn’t missed. It’s just irrelevant to my original point that being a K-1 champ doesn’t mean anything in MMA. I would point to Alistair’s success in MMA before anything he did in K-1. It simply does not translate. They are not even apples and oranges. More like oranges and horse meat.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
by memitim on Nov 15, 2011 5:33 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You can keep saying that, it doesn’t make it true. There have been K-1 champs competing in MMA with limited success and what they bring from their kickboxing game matters as only one facet to the overall game of MMA. Reem is a K-1 champ but that doesn’t put his striking skills above JDS. All it means is he is a K-1 champ. That’s it. In MMA that means nothing.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
by memitim on Nov 15, 2011 10:49 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
I agree with you that K1 credentials by themselves are not elite-credentials for MMA. But Reem is not a K1-Striker coming into MMA. He is a well rounded MMA-fighter who has improved one part of his game, his striking, enough to win K1 GP gold. That’s not your usual “he has K1-level-striking” ft. Mike Goldberg, IMO
"A belt only covers two inches of your ****and the rest you need to back up on your own." Royce Gracie (allegedly...I just read it somewhere and thought it was cool for my sig!)
Semmy Schilt-
KING OF PANCRASE, BABY!!

Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Nov 15, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
Pancrase has only one kIng and his name rhymes with Mas Gluten.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
by memitim on Nov 15, 2011 3:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
My honest opinion? No, he can’t. As Joe Rogan and Mike Goldberg like to point out, dos Santos is a specialist.
Personally I think Rogan, and many others underestimate Dos Santos because they simply want to put the boxing label on him. Rampage always was well rounded but just because he used his boxing skills, people decided that he wasn’t well rounded. That’s kind of lazy.
Dos Santos may be a specialist but it should be more than obvious that he has been steadily working on his overall game. I wonder how often Rogan and many others will continue to spew the fact that you have to well-rounded, wrestling base is so important, blah, blha, baaa. I’m biased toward strikers. Fights begin standing up.
With that said, Dos Santos will probably not defend his title 3 or more times.
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"but if there's anyone who wants to finish fights it's me." - GSP
Totally Agree
He is a brown belt under Nog, I’d venture to guess that he is fairly decent on the ground. You saw him take Shane Carwin down with ease, I think he is definitely working on his overall game.
Just because we haven’t seen him use his Jiu-Jitsu, doesn’t mean that it isn’t decent. Rogan and others make it sound like Dos Santos is a throw-back to UFC 1 and is merely a boxer that solely trains boxing.
by Dan A. White on Nov 15, 2011 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
Insert UFC belt on his left arm.

Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
@xFenixKnightx on the Twitter
by xFenixKnightx on Nov 15, 2011 10:16 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Overeem better not underestimate Lesnar’s reach or power.
I know, too bad Lesnar doesn’t know how to punch yet but you never know.
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"but if there's anyone who wants to finish fights it's me." - GSP
by VeeisAnimated on Nov 15, 2011 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
He can punch just fine
His boxing, on the other hand, could still use work.
Brock still proved he can hit like a mule as far back as the Herring fight.
He is good at leaping in with single shots
but Brock is still horrible at exchanging in the pocket.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Nov 15, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
Not scary when you consider that he’s not fast compared to many other heavyweights.
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"but if there's anyone who wants to finish fights it's me." - GSP
by VeeisAnimated on Nov 15, 2011 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
OH NO!
Not the Dream HW champ JDS is doomed!
KEMvP
"You know Joe, if Keith Jardines last name was Johnson, the nickname 'The Dean of Mean' wouldn't work at all."
Those belts...
Would be worth more if he just melted them and sold the scrap metal!
by Dan A. White on Nov 15, 2011 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
thats ridiculous.
And proof you don’t know what you are talking about. The dream belt is just a belt. Strikeforce’s champs are all legitimate champs.
The K1 grand prix belt is the most prestigeous kickboxing title in the world.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Nov 15, 2011 12:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
Insert
JDS right fist upsdie his temple.
by nickrodamous on Nov 15, 2011 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
Insert
Reems knee right on JDS’s jaw.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
@xFenixKnightx on the Twitter
by xFenixKnightx on Nov 15, 2011 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
I really don’t think anyone stands heads and shoulders above the rest of the field at HW.
Maybe JDS can out box Overeem and put him to sleep, or maybe Overeem will close the distance, daze him with one of his titanic knees and then knock his lights out.
Maybe JDS can block Lesnar’s takedown and make him breakdance like Cain did until he pounds him out, or maybe Lesnar rams him up against a wall, overpowers JDS and puts him on this back, stockades him and TKOs him from half-guard without even being threatened by JDS’s jiu-jitsu.
Maybe JDS can do the same thing he did the first time in rematches with Carwin or Cain, or maybe Carwin is the first to land a ridiculous power shot than puts JDS in a world of hurt. Or maybe Cain comes out with less to lose and successfully mixes up takedowns and strikes enough that JDS completely loses focus ala Edgar vs. Penn.
Or hell, maybe even Frank Mir gets a shot and catches him with a heel hook.
Either which way it’s too much of a crap shoot. He is not Anderson Silva, GSP, or Jon Jones yet and I don’t think we’ve gotten an indication of such either.
Frank Mir is a wrap. I like him but he can not deal with wrestlers.
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"but if there's anyone who wants to finish fights it's me." - GSP
by VeeisAnimated on Nov 15, 2011 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
When was the last time he dealt with a powerful striker successfully? And no, Crocop wanting to go fish instead of fight doesn't count.
The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.
by Unabomberman on Nov 15, 2011 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
I had forgotten about him.
Poor Kongo, he can’t get no love.
The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.
by Unabomberman on Nov 15, 2011 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
Two things. First, maybe Carwin can KO Arlovski these days, that’s about it. Otherwise he’s cooked. Second, no way in hell should Jon Jones be mentioned in the same breath as GSP and Anderson right now. Not even close.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
by memitim on Nov 15, 2011 2:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Eh, originally I was going to say “he’s not Anderson Silva or GSP or even Jon Jones” but it felt really weird to disrespect Jon Jones. Jones isn’t at the level of those other two in terms of being a dominant champion but he still seems far above all other LHWs right now.
And Carwin is cooked? Why? Because he JDS turned his face into hamburger (but notice he never finished him) and he failed to finish off Brock before running out of gas? He’s still a scary, scary guy who made Frank Mir his bitch.
I think the "JDS is a specialist" line is being way overdone
We saw great takedown defense against Carwin, and as icing on the cake we saw him go 2/2 in takedowns against Carwin, which is something Brock couldn’t do until Carwin was an acidosis zombie.
JDS is a very well rounded fighter, IMO. I remember an interview where he was looking up to GSP’s style, but I can’t find it now. He certainly seems to be going in that direction. Fortunately, HWs have pretty bad striking defense (Cain included) and JDS has crazy power, so he’s unlikely to have any finishing problems.
by paythefighters on Nov 15, 2011 10:20 AM EST reply actions
ya but ur forgetting
That jds was absolutely destroying carwin on the feet and tiring him out as well so carwin was not expecting the takedown at all. With Brock however he knew the takedown was coming
by benten20 on Nov 15, 2011 1:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Sounds exactly like a well-rounded fighter to me
Remind you of anyone?
JDS isn’t one-dimensional in the least.
by paythefighters on Nov 16, 2011 12:20 AM EST up reply actions
Absolutely. The “JDS is a specialist” meme is equally as ridiculous as Cain has “no known weaknesses” line.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
by memitim on Nov 15, 2011 2:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think youth is on Junior's side
He’s only 27 years old. Brock is 34 and Overeem is 31 and has a long career and a history of being knocked out. Even Cain has a few years on him. And as JDS grows, he will continue to develop as a fighter and get better. Just think about how great his striking will be in 2 or 3 years. That’s kind of terrifying.
Junior has shown that he has the ability to end fights with a single punch, while also absorbing massive damage. The two fighters has hasn’t knocked out have been severely outclassed. I don’t really think that there is anybody that is going to be able to get around Junior’s iron fists. It doesn’t matter what happens in the fight, he is going to clip you, and if he does, you better hope you’re Roy Nelson, because if you aren’t, you’re going to be face down on the canvas.
I don’t think he is unbeatable, I just think that in every one of the possible match ups, he has the advantage. I see the likely ending to be a KO, TKO or a savage beating.
I think Roy Nelson was the only guy that really hit Junior often. Other than that, no one really tested him.
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"but if there's anyone who wants to finish fights it's me." - GSP
by VeeisAnimated on Nov 15, 2011 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
The point is, he can take a punch
Could he take a full force, juiced up Carwin punch, I have no idea. Also, he seems to be wary of his opponents striking. He didn’t just wade in against Cain and eat shots. He cleverly avoided Cain’s left hook to hit him with that right hand, so he knows how to avoid shots. I feel like he would do the same against a guy like Overeem, who is slower than Cain and doesn’t seem to want to use that ridiculous reach to his advantage.
good points.
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"but if there's anyone who wants to finish fights it's me." - GSP
by VeeisAnimated on Nov 15, 2011 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
I think JDS is the most complete fighter at HW
He has ridiculous power in both of his hands, back up by his solid technique, accuracy and hand speed. He is unusually fast, agile and explosive for a guy who is 6’3" and 240 pounds. His fight IQ and striking defense are pretty solid, and he can take a punch. He has great take down defense and he appears to be a naturally talented wrestler. It just seems like every other HW(save Cain) is missing one or more of these elements.
overeem isnt slower than cain.
Overeem’s flurries are ridiculously fast….. And bone crunching.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Nov 15, 2011 12:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Overeem plods around
He holds his hands up high and walks guys down. He also has this weird habit of starting a punch and then stopping. You could call it a feint, but he just doesn’t seem to do anything with them. It almost looks like he is changing his mind halfway through the punch, like he is hesitant. That was the mistake Cain made, and we saw what happened.
Overeem has slow general footwork,
but he will do some very athletic stuff when the opportunity or need arises. He has a solid, fast sprawl, throws vicious knees, and we all remember him nearly jumping out of the cage, too.
His handspeed is very fast, too. He just doesn’t fire one punch after the other Belfort style, but rather picks his strikes.
by paythefighters on Nov 16, 2011 12:27 AM EST up reply actions
I think that is just a result of Overeem pacing himself very carefully. Partly I think because he still has stamina-issues but also because if he throws, it’s usually a very powerful strike. With this style he simply needs to be extremely economic in dispensing his energy but if he feels there is an opportunity he unloads quickly and does some very impressive stuff, IMO. I think anybody who can’t drain Overeem by grappling with him will be on very thin ice.
"A belt only covers two inches of your ****and the rest you need to back up on your own." Royce Gracie (allegedly...I just read it somewhere and thought it was cool for my sig!)
Lesnar: a Carwin with lesser hands who crumbles when punched. Has a takedown but I don’t see him taking Junior down.
Overeem: minus the big gloves = shitty defensive boxing. Has a guillotine but that is not enough to turn the tide.
Cain: seems to love taking punches in the face. Not a recipe for succes.
Lesnar = Carwin with lesser hands? Really?
Brock and Shane are completely different fighters. The only commonality between the two is they were wrestlers in College and that’s where the comparison ends.
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
Also, Shane doesn't even wrestle successfully that much, even.
On the other hand, Lesnar—minus gaping belly Sarlacc pit—has shown to be more successful against…uh…Frank Mir?
The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.
by Unabomberman on Nov 15, 2011 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
1-1 < 1-0
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Nov 15, 2011 12:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Junior has dropped everyone he fought in the UFC except Cro Cop, JDS Gave Mirko and uppercut to the eye that made him quit.
"When you believe in something and you're a good person...things happen" - Junior Dos Santos
I don’t see much of the rest of the HW division giving him problems, not a Fabricio rematch, not Frank Mir, if he can stay on his feet long enough with Brock Lesnar, etc.
"When you believe in something and you're a good person...things happen" - Junior Dos Santos
Cain fighting a perfect gameplan might, but it is hard to say given how he got trucked in 64 seconds.
MMA ain’t boxing in that a second’s loss translates into a second drubbing in the future.
The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.
by Unabomberman on Nov 15, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
Rogan's analysis of Cigano's game is almost as obnoxious as Dana's
If JDS is a “specialist,” than so are Anderson Silva, Brock Lesnar, Jon Fitch, Jose Aldo, Shogun, Machida, and a crap-ton of other contending and championship fighters. Making him out to be some sort of crazy throwback who doesn’t have any other tools outside of his boxing is wrong and easily disprovable.
Gonzaga (BJJ Black Belt), Carwin (NCAA wrestler), Roy Nelson (BJJ Black Belt) and Cain Velasquez (NCAA Champion) have all tried and failed to put Junior on his back and keep him there long enough to do something meaningful.
At some point maybe we admit that it’s not a fluke and that JDS has very good defensive wrestling, excellent hips, and BJJ that is extremely well adapted to scrambling and putting the fight back where he wants it.
I don’t know how long he holds the belt, but I am starting to feel like he’s in for the Frankie Edgar treatment as champ, with people consistently picking against him because they have a frankly wrongheaded understanding of his game.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
People pick against Edgar b/c he keeps getting beat the fuck up at the top.
His only dominant win was his second belt defense against Penn, and even then it was all about the flow of the fight plus points, and not about damage. I think his game is fairly easy to understand: hit-move-hit-move-keep scoring them points-dive for takedown if you can-hit-move-hit-move-dive for takedown if you can-scramble-see what up-keep scoring moar points for great justice. Repeat.
Junior’s on the other hand is hit-hit-hit-hit-scramble-hit-hit-hit-hit-win belt-cry-speak three languages. So far he’s fucked up bad everyone he’s ever faced in the UFC, unlike Edgar.
The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.
by Unabomberman on Nov 15, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah they are totally different fighters
but the respect issue is the same. I could see either Ubereem or Brock catching a betting line advantage against JDS depending on how they do against one another.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Nov 15, 2011 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
I disagree.
Ubereem lunch-box-mone-beating Lesnar sans intestines would somehow work, but that is a tall order assuming Brock is anywhere near the Vanila Gorilla level he was at before and can shoot at least two or three competent takedowns.
As for Lesnar sans intestines? He got trounced bad by Carwin bad, whom Junior put a plastic surgery clinic on that turned him into Old Man Coleman; and he got turned into mashed potato paste by Cain whom Junior pounded into brown frijoles (Hmmmm! frijoles…).
No responsible gambling addict would place them above Junior in the betting lines considering that history unless some kind of blowout performance happens.
The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.
by Unabomberman on Nov 15, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
Not anymore
I soooo wanted to lay a giant bet on JDS when he was scheduled against Lesnar, but I’m pretty sure he’ll be a giant favorite if they ever get matched up again (which is unlikely as he’s going to have a tough time against Overeem).
by paythefighters on Nov 16, 2011 12:30 AM EST up reply actions
Haters gonna hate...
Account is finally activated! I’ve been dying to tell everyone how much they must underestimate JDS…People are talking making it seem like Cain would beat him with a perfect gameplan? How Overeem is gonna kill him or Brock can get him down. When was the last time JDS was even taken down? He’s a Blackhouse guy and he can end the fight at ANY moment…Great TDD does not make him a “specialist,” he’s a well rounded fighter and he just knocked the “undefeated, undisputed, untouchable” Cain Velasquez, seriously JDS only has 1 loss on his record, what’s the gameplan for beating him?
Punch him hard
IN THE FACE
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
by Chris Barton on Nov 15, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
If you go by that record
choking him?
"Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."
by menckenstein on Nov 15, 2011 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
Why are heavyweights more susceptible to injury?
I mean, it might be true, I’m just curious the reason. I’ve always understood that the conventional wisdom is the heavier fighters have greater longevity because they don’t have as high a reliance on reflexes as do lighter weight fighters.
Head conductor of the Charles Oliveira hype train.
In boxing, sure
But this is MMA. There’s a lot more movement since you need to maneuver more with the large distance (due to kicks and small gloves), wrestling (offensive and defensive), and assuming one fighter doesn’t just lie on his back with a closed guard, grappling.
I won’t deny that there’s gobs of skill and intense training involved in HW boxing, but MMA is a lot rougher on the joints.
by paythefighters on Nov 16, 2011 12:36 AM EST up reply actions
Junior's staying on top for a while
I’m one of the marks who chose 3 or more. I know it’s far from a sure thing but here’s why. AO is an experienced striker but he’s very plodding. I think he’ll follow Junior around the cage in a way similair to what Cain did. That strategy worked for him in K-1 when he has the big gloves to block with then he can launch his counter offense. Junior is excellent at keeping the range he wants so I think he will land on AO form the outside until wants to dig into some combos. Once he staggers AO then the end could come at any time. Junior has shown to have the better chin so I think he should be favored around -200 in that fight.
If he fights Brock then he will rely more on his superior agility and speed to avoid Brock’s bull rush. It should be obvious to everyone that Junior is extremely hard to take down. I think his stats show he’s been taken down twice (maybe 3 times now) but each time was for less than one second . The odds are stacked too much against Brock. In all likelihood he would have to have multiple succcessfull takedowns to win and I’m not going to make that leap especially when you consider Randy’s success at defendiing Brocks TD’s. In the Cain rematch I think the styles favor Junior in a big way. Someone might get a takedown on Junior against the fence but I’m willing to bet he can wall walk with the best of them.
If he stays healthy ( it looks like this recent injury is pretty minor/recoverable) then I’ll give him a better than 50-50% of 3 more consecutive wins.
Your beliefs become your reality.
by Hardy's in your face on Nov 15, 2011 12:03 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I think JDS beats Overeem more often than not. Brock has a shout chance if he can take him down and keep them there but there is always the chance that JDS will catch him. Cain, fully fit and not injured, would probably beat him imo. Cormier and Josh Barnett both have good styles to beat him too but only if they get himdown and keep him there
You Come At The King, You Best Not Miss
by Our Bovine Public on Nov 15, 2011 12:37 PM EST reply actions
I feel sort of dirty having this opinion, but I think it’s lining up for Brock to take back the belt before surrendering it, once again, to Velasquez. Something tells me that as strong and skilled as Overeem is, he’s better than a 50/50 proposition to wilt under a sustained gorilla-wrestling assault from Brock. If that happens, Dos Santos will have a decent chance to land something on Brock before he gets taken down, but Brock’s strength, surprising quickness, and now officially under-rated skill-set when it comes to grappling will put him in decent position in that fight. I think there’s a possibility he could grind and overwhelm Junior, especially with Junior fighting in the aftermath of an injury-related layoff.
by Charlie Custer on Nov 15, 2011 12:53 PM EST reply actions
I think a healthy Brock who comes in with a good gameplan and follows is the biggest challenge. His athleticism and speed gives him the best shot out of potential contenders. If he can stay out of Dos Santos’ reach and quickly shoot for takedowns or initiate a clinch while avoiding scrambles where he can catch a errant punch. If he can turn this into a close quarters grappling match he might be able to wear Junior down and either finish him in the later rounds or ride out a decision. Again, the big if is Brock’s health, both physical and mental, and his ability to fight intelligently like he did against Mir, and not just rush out blindly in “Brock Smash!!!!!” mode like he did with Velazquez.
by Steve W on Nov 15, 2011 12:56 PM EST via mobile reply actions
To me I think Overeem is definitely the biggest challenge for JDS right now, as he is arguably the only one in the HW division who can seriously challenge his stand-up game. If Reem beats Brock, and JDS then beats Reem, I could definitely see JDS holding the title for a couple more defenses. After that Reem/Brock winner things get a bit easier in the current UFC HW division. Who will be next, Frank Mir? Don’t give him too much of a chance. Cain rematch? See it going about the same. Brock down the line? No, I don’t think he’ll ever again beat a great striker with good takedown defense. Possibly you can also look at some of the Strikeforce fighters, but I don’t see anyone there who would be a huge threat to JDS. So yeah, I think JDS has a good chance to hold on to it for a little while. But at the same time it is the HW division, and anyone can get caught, even JDS. Lots of great match-ups ahead, that’s for sure.
This is honestly hilarious, and I may be a Junior fan, but...
Many of the members on this site were under the opinion that Cain would levy Junior onto his back and ground and pound away for a victory. Junior is a specialist, but he is also an extremely talented mma fighter, which includes his underrated wrestling. Also, Brock Lesnar may be able to beat Overeem with wrestling, I actually think he will, but I can’t help but be reminded of his fight with Cain Velasquez, where he got brutally out struck and his wrestling nullified. Cain Velasquez just got mauled by Junior in 64 seconds…. Overeem would be an interesting striking war, no doubt, but Junior has more tools to win the fight, and I personally believe his stand up is equally superb. I actually think Barnett may be the 2nd best HW in the world, I’ll decide after he fights Cormier, who’s also a beast. To say JDS will defend 3 times would be rather overconfident, but he certainly has the potential to.
I can see Alistair beating Lesnar :(
but I can’t really see Alistair beating JDS. If JDS can get past Alistair (if he beats Lesnar) then I don’t see any route to victory for a challanger against JDS outside of a grappling-heavy gameplan.
Anderson Silva, Edson Barboza, Jose Aldo, Charles Oliveira, Thiago Alves = Muay Thai wrecking machines!
by SentientAndroid on Nov 15, 2011 3:11 PM EST reply actions
If you include the original Superfight title
Then Shamrock made two successful defenses as well.
I have a tough time seeing anyone out there right now that can truly dominate the division.
by Theagenes on Nov 16, 2011 7:57 AM EST via mobile reply actions

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