UFC 136 Results: Frankie Edgar Saved Us From Controversy
by Mike Fagan on Oct 9, 2011 9:13 PM EDT
in UFC News
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Let's play "what if?" for a moment. Imagine Frankie Edgar doesn't land the uppercut that sent Gray Maynard stumbling back toward the fence. The round ends with Edgar taking his third decisive round. Maynard, after hearing an earful from his corner about his offensive output, comes out spirited in the final frame and wins the round. Ruh roh, right?
Nope. The above image is the scorecards from last night's main event. While Douglas Crosby correctly scored the first round 10-8 for Gray Maynard, judges Nelson Hamilton and Cecil Peoples both awarded Maynard a 10-9. Had the above scenario played out, Edgar would have won a majority decision, with Crosby holding the dissenting draw card.
UFC President Dana White announced that the promotion would move on from Edgar-Maynard regardless of the result. But it makes one wonder what would have happened had Edgar won an undeserved decision.
And, of course, shame on Hamilton and Peoples. I've railed against the half-point system since its inception, and this is precisely why. If we can't trust judges to correctly award a 10-8 round, what makes us believe they'll be able to implement finer gradients? (And one only needs to look at the Jimmo-Sokoudjou MFC fight on Friday for further proof that the half-point must system isn't going to fix bad decisions.)
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My gosh. How can you not call that a 10-8. Seriously, no commission should let them judge combat sports ever.
KEMvP
"You know Joe, if Keith Jardines last name was Johnson, the nickname 'The Dean of Mean' wouldn't work at all."
They also didn't give Gray a 10-7 for the first in their first title fight.
Can you name a more one sided shitkicking of a round in MMA that didn’t end with a stoppage? Edgar wasn’t defending anything, just get getting rocked and dropped and murdersmashed. If that was only a 10-8 then you might as well admit that there are only two scores possible, 10-9 and 10-8.
And regarding my last point about only being two possible scores, according to MMA Decisions, there have only been 17 10-10 rounds scored in UFC history. Two of those were on UFC 33, where the judges where likely napping. For reference, there were 30 complete rounds scored on the card last night.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Oct 9, 2011 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I really dislike Maynard.
But I absolutely agree that that was a 10-7, he absolutely mauled Edgar, I wanted it to be stopped before Frank died.
KEMvP
"You know Joe, if Keith Jardines last name was Johnson, the nickname 'The Dean of Mean' wouldn't work at all."
Which fight?
UFC 125 or UFC 136?
Bloody Elbow Grappling Editor.
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125, 136 was absolutely the right call to keep the fight going, in my opinion.
KEMvP
"You know Joe, if Keith Jardines last name was Johnson, the nickname 'The Dean of Mean' wouldn't work at all."
I agree. It was a 10-7 in the first fight.
It’s not just Gray’s offense, it’s the utter lack of offense from Frankie in relation to it. If only 3 scores are possible in a round (barring fouls) then 10 point must is a joke. Of course it’s already a joke for a myriad of reasons in MMA. Judges need to get their head out of their ass. 10-9 is completely meaningless as a descriptor of a round. There are a million different 10-9’s, but judges are completely lacking the ability to make any distinctions finer than that.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 9, 2011 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
It was not a 10-7
ahh Skeletor I shaved my legs for you tonight,
and if you see my cock I hope you go in fright.
ahh Skeletor you made me do some coke,
ahhh I'm up all night and its no joke.
by NEW-HAMPSHIRE on Oct 9, 2011 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes I realize that.
It should’ve been a 10-7.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 9, 2011 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Frankie DID get his wits about him and start landing shots before the bell
It wasn’t a “saved by the bell” incident. That’s why I disagree with a 10-7 score; 10-8 seems right.
He threw a couple.
Based on the way things are scored you’re right. But there has to be a greater range applied to scoring, so IMO that was a 10-7. A 10-9 is currently used to describe the vast majority of rounds, rounds in which one guy may lose be a slight margin, one meaningless takedown, etc., all the way to a pretty dominant round. 10-9 isn’t descriptive of anything. 10-8 means a pretty good beatdown with damage, though I wish were expanded to mean any clearly dominant round. 10-9 if it’s close but you think one fighter did more. Right now they’re using 10-9 to mean any and everything.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 9, 2011 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions
A 10-7 round in a 5 round fight
would be like a 10-3 round in a 12 round fight. Not really sensible to judge a short fight with a 10-7. MMA is not boxing and many fights are only 3 rounds which would make the disparity even more ridiculous to overcome. How much do you want to weight one round? Enough so that a fighter pretty much is guaranteed not to be able to mount a comeback from a single lopsided round? Not very good scoring IMO.
"He's got a great package... and an unusual one!" Joe Rogan (of Lyoto Machida)
Then make every score easier to attain. 10-8’s are far too rare, 10-9’s are far too common, and 10-10’s almost don’t exist.
To expand, here's how I would ideally score the fight
10-6 Maynard
10-8 Edgar
10-9 Maynard (or 10-10)
10-9 Edgar
10-9 Edgar
I like that scoring alot.
I mean, i’d just like for there to be some more 10-7’s, but the scoring you outlined is incredibly accurate. 10-6 for the complete shellacking in the first round, 10-8 for Edgar’s strong performance in the second, and 10-9 for the rounds that were close.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Oct 9, 2011 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, actually, yes, one round could be enough.
If a fighter does significantly more and better in a single round than his oponent does in the two other rounds combined (for a regular three rounder), that one round should be enough to win. A complete destruction of a fighter in one round should in manny cases count for as much or more than just edging your oponent out in two rounds. That is the very point of the rules being as they are.
A 10-7 round is very difficult to overcome in a three round fight (it can be done, offcourse, but it´s hard) and that is the point. The guy losing the round 10-7 should be forced to do more to his oponent in the rest of the fight than was done to him in the round he lost 10-7, generaly speaking.
Now, 10-7 rounds are a rare thing to score (even I, who think thay are a good idea, have only seen a handfull of 10-7 rounds in literally thousands of fights), but when a fighter have that much effective offense in a single round, it should take a huge effort to overcome and be hard to do.
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by Igorstyle on Oct 9, 2011 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, viewed in isolation I see your point, but it isn't boxing.
I’m much more likely to give a 10-8 if a guy dominates a round, even without multiple knockdowns, etc. In my opinion, if you get that first round scored on you, and manage to fight on, that’s great, but you better win every round at that point, have a huge round yourself, or stop your opponent. Eking out rounds isn’t good enough at that point. The flipside of this is to leave 10-8’s as very rare occurrences, but score all close rounds 10-10. What I see way more often, is a very close fight, punctuated by one clearly dominant round from Fighter A, but Fighter B just happens to scratch out 2 rounds, and yet all three rounds get scored 10-9’s. If the problem with my statement is that you have almost no chance of coming back after a 10-7 round, that’s as it should be. In MMA, you have much wider swings than in boxing, and much greater chance of stopping your opponent despite how the fight has gone to that point. Boxing comparisons don’t really work for me.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 9, 2011 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Losing a 10-7 round in a 5-round fight wouldn't be insurmountable
First of all, you could sweep the remaining rounds with 10-9 scores and still win 47-46. Or you could always, ya know, earn some 10-8 or 10-7 rounds yourself. If some guy kicks the living crap out of you for five minutes, maybe you should do more than narrowly eek out two rounds if you want to be considered the winner of a fight. Scoring 98% of rounds 10-9 leads us to a system where Rampage could be considered a rightful winner in the Machida fight.
While I’d ideally love to see the scoring opened up so that more scores are available, that’s not going to prevent most of the bad judging. It’s ironic, you see that Hamilton judge up there, failing to give the first round 10-8? He’s the main proponent of the .5 system, where close rounds would be 10-9.5. Well he also moronically scored the Maia/Munoz fight 30/27 for Munoz when the first two rounds were CLEARLY split between the two fighters. If we can’t trust judges to pretty much point to one side or the other to say who won a round, they’ll just embarrass themselves and mess things up even more if they have more freedom with scoring options.
Well said.
The problem here is that 10-9 is overused and meaningless. If 10-8 or 10-10 were used more liberally, this would be a moot point. Under the current system and more importantly, it’s implementation, the first round of Edgar/Maynard II has to be a 10-7. Compare it to round one of Ellenberger/Condit, which was a 10-8 in my book even though Carlos landed some shots, and sprang right back from the second knockdown. The Edgar/Maynard round was as close as a fight can get to being stopped, and for almost the entire duration of the round.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 10, 2011 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
There should be no 10-8 rounds in MMA...
In boxing you knock someone down they stop the fight and let the fighter clear his head…good job 10-8 round. In MMA there is no stoppage, its the fighters responsibility to end the fight. My problem with it is that there is no credit being given to the fighter who weathers the storm and comes back. The credit is being given to the fighter who lands a big shot but cant end the fight. 10-8 rounds are a scoring technique adopted from boxing that doesnt have a place in MMA. Do the 10-8 rounds apply to submission fighters? Think about how many time a fighter has nearly been submitted but escaped. Should the fighter who couldn’t finish the submission be awarded a 10-8 round?
Hell, I can get you a toe by 3 o'clock this afternoon... with nail polish. These amateurs...
I disagree completely.
A fighter shouldn’t be rewarded AT ALL for having to recover from a hard knockdown. There need to be distinctions between 10-10 rounds, 10-9, 10-8, 10-7, etc, because not all rounds were created equal. Sometimes one guy does everything BUT finish, and absolutely batters the opponent. Sometimes a guy gets battered, but also does some damage himself. Sometimes one fighter is clearly dominant, but doesn’t do a ton of damage and/ or doesn’t come close to finishing. Sometimes a round is pretty much even.
There needs to be different distinctions between these things, or else the entire scoring system is shit. If you’re going to have a scoring system, then it MUST be accurate.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Oct 9, 2011 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I will agree the entire scoring system (and judging) is shit but...
in your explanation you didnt address submissions being scored a 10-8 round. Did you see the Darren Elkins and Tiequan Zhang fight? In all 3 rounds Elkins was “almost” submitted by guillotine at the beginning of every round. Should those have been scored 10-8 rounds or does the 10-8 round only apply to strikers who knock the other fighter down? My problem with the 10-8 is that every fighter is given the opportunity to finish a fight (unlike boxing where it is stopped to let the fighter recover) and if you cant do that why should you be given the extra point? Josh Rosenthal didnt think Edgar was in trouble in that 1st round or he would have stopped the fight.
Hell, I can get you a toe by 3 o'clock this afternoon... with nail polish. These amateurs...
I don't rate near submissions very highly, at all.
Except for the rare instances where they actually do damage to the opponent, as in round 2 of Rafael Dos Anjos vs. Tyson Griffin, where Dos Anjos nearly submits Griffin with a calf cutter, and Tyson is visibly limping around for the rest of the fight.
I only consider damage to be the true barometer of who is winning a fight. Control, to me, is a VERY secondary consideration.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Oct 10, 2011 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agree.
In the absence of much striking, near submissions can get you the 10-9, particularly as compared with takedowns, but never a 10-8. All or nothing propositions with submissions, generally.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 10, 2011 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If no fighter clearly did more damage with strikes and slams,
then whoever dominated the grappling should win a 10-9. And the instances where I would award a fighter a 10-8, just by grappling and not landing a significant amount of strikes, are VERY rare.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Oct 10, 2011 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I'm trying to conceive of those circumstances,
but you’d have to injure the guy, and otherwise just dominate him, transitioning from tight attempt to tight attempt. Very rare. The Dos Anjos comparison was a good one, but I can’t remember much else about that round.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 10, 2011 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions
What if Sonnen held on to that arm triangle against Stann for a good while
Then but couldn’t finish and the rest of the round was Chael tossing him around and advancing position is that a 10-8? Why should 10-8 only be used for striking that doesn’t makes sense if this is Mixed Martial Arts. It’s not called Boxing+other stuff.
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
MMA is the sport of FIGHTING.
In a fight, there is one goal- inflict more harm than your opponent. Positions (clinch, ground positions like guard/ half guard/ side control/ mount/ back/ north south/ etc) and transitions (takedowns, guard passes & recoveries/ sweeps) are only a means to the end of inflicting harm on the opponent. Sometimes a takedown can inflict harm on the opponent (a slam or high altitude throw), as can positions (a strong crossface from top position, body triangle from the back mount, scarf hold side control, topside crucifix), but in general- strikes and submission holds are the most effective way to inflict harm on the opponent.
You imply that giving damage precedence over control makes me a “JUST BLEED” or “STANDANDBANG” fan. That’s not true. I just have thought alot about the essence of fighting, and all it comes down to in the end is “who kicked the other guy’s ass?” Damage is the ultimate barometer of who is winning a fight.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Oct 10, 2011 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I have legit forgotten, so don't think I'm being a dickhead asking this,
but who do you think won Penn vs. Fitch and/or how did you score each round?
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
It's been a while,
but I actually had Fitch winning that fight. I thought BJ took the 1’st round 10-9, but I had the 2’nd as a 10-10, and gave Fitch the 3’rd round 10-8. Fitch 29-28.
Keep in mind that I gave Gray a 10-7 in the first round of his 2’nd fight with Edgar, and also gave Carwin a 10-7 in the first round against Brock.
To me, Fitch layed a huge volume of strikes on BJ, but none that really had him seriously hurt or in danger of being finished, thus 10-8. Gray and Shane both landed devastating power shots, and had their opponents SERIOUSLY hurt.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Oct 10, 2011 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions
10-7 in Shanve vs. Brock is beyond what I would give
but besides that I agree with your scoring. That said, given the MASSIVE discrepancy in striking volume and ineffectiveness in grappling, I’ve considered arguing a 10-7 for Fitch in the third against Penn. Fair enough sir, I respect your fight scoring abilities.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
I definitely consider round 1 of Carwin/ Lesnar a 10-7,
I mean, he knocks Brock down, punches him 60 times in the face (40 of which are credited as power shots by FM), and stuffs all of Brock’s takedowns.
Looking back, Fitch landed a fuck ton of strikes on BJ and it could conceivably be a 10-7, but damn near all those strikes were just short shots from guard. I don’t think Fitch’s volume amounted to Carwin’s power, comparatively.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Oct 10, 2011 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions
And to answer you're question,
Chael generally throws a huge volume of strikes from top position (as he was doing in the fight with Stann). If all he did was pass guard, and fail to complete submission attempts, or inflict harm with his submission attempts, then no- I probably wouldn’t give him a 10-8. I don’t believe that positions (on the ground or anywhere else) have any inherent value. It’s what happens from those positions that matters.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Oct 10, 2011 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Which is why Forrest’s 2nd round against Rampage where he got mount for like 4 minutes and did nothing with it, is the worst 10-8 round of all time. Just think about how that was a 10-8 and the first round of Maynard-edgar apparently wasnt.
That one is tricky.
Because Forrest did seriously hurt Page with low kicks, but alot of the damage was done in the first round, too. Griffin didn’t really do that much with the mount he had, so I would probably give that to Forrest 10-9. I would have to rewatch it though, since it’s been such a long time.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Oct 10, 2011 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I dont think Forrest had many leg kicks in the 2nd. I think Forrest went to the ground right away, and did virtually nothing from mount while Rampage took the round off. But same as you it has been a long time.
IIRC, Forrest hit Page with like 3-4 low kicks in the 2'nd round.
But I could be lowballing him.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Oct 10, 2011 2:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Just looked on fightmetric-
Griffin landed 13 low kicks in the first round (7 were considered "power shots), and 2 power low kicks in the 2’nd round.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Oct 10, 2011 2:18 AM EDT up reply actions
agreed.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Oct 10, 2011 5:59 AM EDT up reply actions
This stands out to me in that round.
Jackson 0 0 of 0 0% 0 of 0 0 of 1 0% 0 0 0
Rampage did nothing in that round. No offense, no significant defense, nothing at all. How do you think that should figure into the scores?
The North remembers...
Would you like Freys with that?
I do,
but ultimately, I think you have to look at what the winner of the round accomplished, and go from there. I’d have to rewatch the fight, but I don’t remember Forrest doing TOO much from there. It all comes down to how you score.
I lean towards giving out more 10-8’s and 10-7’s, and so I would say that Forrest deserves a 10-8 in that round. But I would also probably give Page a 10-8 for the first round, for the knockdown and power shots he landed on Forrest.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Oct 10, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
*
I like your emphasis on damage as the principle if not only measure of victory in a fight, but I think even that can be misleading. There are a bunch of minor quibbles, but the biggest to me is that it’s not honestly very close to being a fight anymore anyway. A number of strikes and submission holds are not allowed, gloves are worn, and most importantly rounds are stopped every five minutes, fighters given a break, and then restarted standing.
To draw from your example, Forrest got into mount on Rampage and proceeded to do little for an entire round. The reason we are even talking about it only being one round of Forrest in mount is because they got stood up and reset. Forrest could easily have had all day to wail on Jackson as he tired out and proceeded to get ground down by Griffin. Given that, I almost feel that Forrest deserves some “points” since the reason they were standing again had nothing to do with Jackson.
I know that Forrest and Rampage agreed to fight under these rules, but if we are willing to change fighting to sport to such a degree, I don’t know if the basic and innately understood rules of fighting are a good enough measure anymore.
*This is mostly from a devil’s advocate position.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Oct 10, 2011 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes. If a guy is doing absolutely nothing but defending submissions, it’s a clear 10-8.
Look at round one of Sonnen/Stann. Sonnen didn’t land that many power shots, but he ragdolled him and passed his guard, eventually taking his back. Stann had no significant offense in the entire round.
by discoandherpes on Oct 9, 2011 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok, so how would you score this?....
Say Jon Fitch starts a fight by taking a fighter down and the other fighter “does absolutely nothing” but defend submissions, should Fitch be award a 10-8 round???.. say Fitch does that again the second round, should it be two 10-8 rounds in a row?
Hell, I can get you a toe by 3 o'clock this afternoon... with nail polish. These amateurs...
Yes, but only if Fitch is landing significant offense. If Fitch is landing weak ground and pound, then it would be a 10-9, if he was dropping bombs, then a 10-8.
It’s not like it’s impossible to avoid getting completely shut down. Diego Sanchez won a round in both the Fitch and Guida fights off of his back.
by discoandherpes on Oct 10, 2011 2:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Fitch has the most ineffective GnP in the UFC.
Which is why I scored the 3rd round vs Penn 10-9 Fitch.
by Rob Young on Oct 10, 2011 5:30 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
why is cecil peoples judging title fights?
seriously the mans an idiot, theres no excuse for his incompetence
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
i wonder what it would take for the state athletic commissions to wise up and stop hiring bad judges and refs that consistently ruin fights and results. a petition campaign or something?
"The Glen Rice scandal is way out of line w/ the GOP's values. They're interested in fucking black people by the millions, not one at a time"
by Victor Rodriguez on Oct 9, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
No joke Cecil Peoples is a goof and is well known.
Hell, I can get you a toe by 3 o'clock this afternoon... with nail polish. These amateurs...
Cecil at his best
Hell, I can get you a toe by 3 o'clock this afternoon... with nail polish. These amateurs...
by Wasr 10 on Oct 10, 2011 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Love that gif. The fence, saved from further danger it was…
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 10, 2011 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions
haha..this is why I love these comments.
did the Cecil save the fence??? or did the fence save all the people in the first 3 rows from Cecil?
Hell, I can get you a toe by 3 o'clock this afternoon... with nail polish. These amateurs...
Yeah, I gotta give respect to the fence.
Things could’ve gotten real ugly.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 10, 2011 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions
So awesome.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Oct 10, 2011 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Goddamn.
I purchased a crowbar and 3 gallons of Goof Off, worked for three arduous hours and was still unable to pry IKilled007 off Jon Jones' nuts.
by Earl Montclair on Oct 9, 2011 5:30 PM EDT reply actions 7 recs
I'm astounded that only 1 judge scored that a 10-8
Gray had Edgar badly hurt for much of the round, and though he wasn’t necessarily close to finishing, had Edgar in a ton of trouble. If that’s not a 10-8 then what is?
I’m also bothered by the fact t hat none of the judges in the Aaron Simpson fight saw fit to give him a 10-8 round, despite the fact that he battered his opponent from bell to bell and completely dominated him.
this
judging was dreadful the whole event. Think it was the Massensio fight where they scored 30-27 despite them clearly splitting the first two rounds
You Come At The King, You Best Not Miss
by Our Bovine Public on Oct 9, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah that was turrible
I purchased a crowbar and 3 gallons of Goof Off, worked for three arduous hours and was still unable to pry IKilled007 off Jon Jones' nuts.
by Earl Montclair on Oct 9, 2011 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Simpson had two 10-8's in that fight.
Schaefer mounted zero offense in two of those rounds, while getting absolutely worked. You don’t have to drop the guy repeatedly if he has no offense.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 9, 2011 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I never once
Considered the possibility of all 3 judges NOT having that first round as a 10-8 for Maynard. This is shocking.
"Honestly, I've got nothing against Josh Koscheck personally........but the guy's just a dickhead"-Paul Daley
Yeah. In the middle of round four, I figured Maynard needed to win round five just for the draw. Turns out he need to repeat the first and then some to draw.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
As did I. Had the first a 10-8 with Frankie taking 2,3 and up until the finish, the 4th. People will say the issue of judging in MMA is a drawn out topic of conversation and i’m sure everybody here could debate it for days, but the simple fact is it has to be regularly questioned when we’re being dished up nonsense like this.
Even watching Phan/Garcia, with Phan taking that fight clear as day, I was worried for him until the decision was announced.
"Honestly, I've got nothing against Josh Koscheck personally........but the guy's just a dickhead"-Paul Daley
When it comes to Phan/Garcia, I wouldn’t be surprised if a part of that fear was how Rogan was trying to play it up. I agree, though. I was scared that Garcia actually looking decent in a round would be enough for the judges to give it to him.
True
Rogan was talking Garcia up something special and the simple fact is, bar the brief period when he rocked Phan, he was completly outclassed.
Sure he spent maybe..all of 30-60 seconds at the beginning of each round trying to put combo’s together but it certainly wasn’t the technical display of stand up it was being made out to be. He immediatly resorted back to windmilling his way towards Phan and he was being picked off from angles at will. I loved Phan’s body shots too, he really impressed me and is alot of fun to watch.
It was a great fight and Garcia is an exciting guy to watch if he’s in there with someone who will stand with him, but like you say there was no contest as far as the decision went. I feel a little bad for Phan too, Rogan could have brought Garcia in and interviewed them together AFTER he’d interviewed Phan by himself, rather than getting them together and giving Garcia plenty of time to talk as the winner just sort of stood around.
"Honestly, I've got nothing against Josh Koscheck personally........but the guy's just a dickhead"-Paul Daley
Whats even more mindblowing is that they gave a 10-8 round in the Quan/Elkins fight
But not in the Simpson/Schafer fight
You Come At The King, You Best Not Miss
by Our Bovine Public on Oct 9, 2011 5:38 PM EDT reply actions
...how do they not give 10-8? This fight card had a lot of good examples of a good 10-8 round
Quan Elikns Simpson Schafer (basically the entire fight) and Edgar Maynard
Judging how dose it work?
Twitter @MaZZM
http://www.mazzznet.com/
not really.
the system itself doesn’t sound so bad, it’s these horrible judges that are the bigger problem.
if they can’t be competent with a 10-point must system [a truly antiquated vestige from boxing], then the half-point system certainly sounds absurd.
"The Glen Rice scandal is way out of line w/ the GOP's values. They're interested in fucking black people by the millions, not one at a time"
by Victor Rodriguez on Oct 9, 2011 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
It deserves scorn because the genius pushing it the hardest scored that round a 10-9. If he can’t do this properly, I’m not sure how giving him more options to use incorrectly is going to fix things.
Exactly, (1) it creates an illusion of precision and (2) even if you buy the premise behind it, there are much simpler ways to institute it that don’t involve using a 1/2 point system and asking people whose intelligence is rightly in question to add fractions.
by Jahbulon on Oct 9, 2011 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
System doesn't matter.
All these judges are capable of, at least a decent amount of the time, is judging who won the round. Completely incompetent at making any finer distinction.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 9, 2011 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly, the advocates of the 1/2 point system want to create the illusion that these judges are capable of distinguishing between 7 degrees of fighting dominance when they’ve already shown they have difficulty with 4 degrees, or 2 degrees for that matter since 10-10s and 10-7s are so rare.
Also, it’s a pretty well documented fact that when performing a task, the more potential answers there are, the slower and less accurate people are to do it.
by Jahbulon on Oct 9, 2011 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly.
I keep thinking that they should be encouraged to score the fights relatively. What I mean is that they should be scoring rounds in comparison to whatever score they give in the first, and that’s it. Trying to act as though a 10-8, or 10-9 is a solid descriptor of anything is futile. Rather than thinking of these scores as objectively meaningful, they should only be asked to think of the fight they’re watching. Making comparisons at a fast pace is much easier than trying to apply a complex and poorly defined criteria to what’s happening in the Octagon.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 9, 2011 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Why? Boxing has 12 rounds. MMA only has 3 or 5 rounds. A 10-8 score is more than double weighted compared to boxing as a result. I don’t understand the opposition to it at all. It makes much more sense.
"He's got a great package... and an unusual one!" Joe Rogan (of Lyoto Machida)
Well what Maynard did in the 1st round of the second fight was more than Edgar did for the rest of the fight so it deserves to be heavily weighted. In this fight the first round Maynard did more than Edgar did for the next two rounds and should have been weighted as such IMO. Why is it a bad thing for a huge round to have a much bigger influence on the score than close rounds?
by schm1583 on Oct 9, 2011 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It should be double-weighted.
MMA was conceived of as an actual fight, not a point match. You also have much greater chance of stopping your opponent if you survive such a round. Boxing scoring was designed for long wars of attrition, it’s not very applicable to MMA, and was only put in place at the time to save the sport from being banned. It needs an overhaul.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 9, 2011 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions
couldnt agree more.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Oct 9, 2011 11:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
47-47, 48-47, 48-47
I would of complained but then again I’d have to watch the fight again as thanks to a combination of it being 3am and Joe Rogan and a fatigued brain being my only company I manged to score Aldo/Florian for Kenny the first time around.
http://unintelligentdefense.blogspot.com
i wondered all week what would happen if this fight ended in yet another draw.
glad we didn’t have to find out the hard way.
"The Glen Rice scandal is way out of line w/ the GOP's values. They're interested in fucking black people by the millions, not one at a time"
by Victor Rodriguez on Oct 9, 2011 5:55 PM EDT reply actions
Is someone going to make a thread on how awful Joe Rogan and Mike Goldberg were last night?
That’s the real “shocker”. P4P worst commentators ever.
by Tairy Hesticles on Oct 9, 2011 5:58 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
A drunk Don Frye and Gus Johnson say hi.
by Rob Young on Oct 10, 2011 5:33 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Those scorecards are EXACTLY how I thought the judges had it.
I told my girlfriend at the end of round 3 that I bet ONE judge had it 28-28 and the other two 29-28 for Edgar. I’m really not sure why you guys are so surprised.
First, the Frankie actually mounted some offense that round. Nothing too damaging, but it was not one-sided the ENTIRE round. Frankie scored a bit. Second, and more importantly, a lot of people here judge fights based off of what they think the judging rules SHOULD be, and not how judges actually score fights. In the real world, sub-attempts mean almost nothing, taking someone down and being on top while doing nothing scores points, and 10-8 rounds are rarely ever scored. That’s the reality, and until the overall system changes (which it certainly should be), this should not be a surprise at all.
Wow.
What you said
First, the Frankie actually mounted some offense that round. Nothing too damaging, but it was not one-sided the ENTIRE round. Frankie scored a bit. Second, and more importantly, a lot of people here judge fights based off of what they think the judging rules SHOULD be, and not how judges actually score fights. In the real world, sub-attempts mean almost nothing, taking someone down and being on top while doing nothing scores points, and 10-8 rounds are rarely ever scored. That’s the reality, and until the overall system changes (which it certainly should be), this should not be a surprise at all.
What the “real world” rules say about judging a fight.
1. A round is to be scored as a 10-10 Round when both contestants appear to be
fighting evenly and neither contestant shows dominance in a round;
2. A round is to be scored as a 10-9 Round when a contestant wins by a close margin,
landing the greater number of effective legal strikes, grappling and other maneuvers;
3. A round is to be scored as a 10-8 Round when a contestant overwhelmingly
dominates by striking or grappling in a round.
4. A round is to be scored as a 10-7 Round when a contestant totally dominates by
striking or grappling in a round
Evaluations shall be made in the order in which the techniques appear, giving the most
weight in scoring to effective striking, effective grappling, control of the fighting area and
effective aggressiveness and defense.
Effective striking is judged by determining the number of legal strikes landed by a
contestant and the significance of such legal strikes.
Effective grappling is judged by considering the amount of successful executions of a
legal takedown and reversals. Examples of factors to consider are take downs from
standing position to mount position, passing the guard to mount position, and bottom
position fighters using an active, threatening guard.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Oct 9, 2011 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
1. A round is to be scored as a 10-10 Round when both contestants appear to be
fighting evenly and neither contestant shows dominance in a round;
2. A round is to be scored as a 10-9 Round when a contestant wins by a close margin,
landing the greater number of effective legal strikes, grappling and other maneuvers;
3. A round is to be scored as a 10-8 Round when a contestant overwhelmingly
dominates by striking or grappling in a round.
4. A round is to be scored as a 10-7 Round when a contestant totally dominates by
striking or grappling in a round
I bet there are a bunch of MMA judges who don’t think 10-10 and 10-7 rounds are allowed under the rules.
I'm not saying I personally didn't think it was 10-8.
I definitely think it was a 10-8 round, specifically under the rules which you list. I understand that they state “bottom position fighters using an active, threatening guard” should get points, etc., but in reality they don’t.
All I’m saying is that with the way judges actually score fights, rules or not, I was not surprised by the scoring. I think it’s consistent with the current state of judging.
You suggested the system needs to change, but the scoring system isn't necessarily bad or wrong.
To borrow a phrase from IT and computer science folks, the issue is between the monitor and the chair.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Oct 9, 2011 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Id 10 t code
Id10t
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Oct 10, 2011 12:03 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Just like how most laws work out
Fine as written, but interpreted very badly. Title IX is a perfect example. Great law, horrendous implementation.
"Complacency is your demise." - Kerry King
Wrong. You too could be an MMA judge.
Frankie landed a handful of solid punches, in response he got dropped and was clearly staggered for most of the round. That’s a 10-8. Clear dominance with damage. Edgar/Maynard II should’ve been a 10-7 for Maynard, and I don’t like Maynard. You call last night’s first a 10-9?? So you’re saying it’s no better, and lumped right in with the million close 10-9’s we see on every card? NO FUCKING WAY!
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 9, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions
You misunderstood him
He isn’t giving that round a 10-9 himself. He just had a feel for how judges score and saw the things that would make them wrongly score it as 10-9.
by paythefighters on Oct 9, 2011 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I re-read it, and I'm a dumbass. Not the first time.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 9, 2011 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I was sitting there
Praying to Chael Sonnen’s Hypogonadism that somebody would finish the damn fight. I’m so sick of Edgar/Penn and Edgar/Maynard stalling all the other LW’s. I’m ready for some fresh new matchups.
"What the ancients called a clever fighter is one who not only wins, but excels in winning with ease."
Yeah, I’m really sick of good fights too.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
by Mike Fagan on Oct 9, 2011 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Give me a freaking break
I didn’t say that at all. I want fresh matchups for criminy sakes. So sue me.
"What the ancients called a clever fighter is one who not only wins, but excels in winning with ease."
dedstrk316 is right, there are plenty of fresh and exciting fights to be mad in the division that is not Edgar/Maynard. I can’t wait for Ben Henderson to finally get his title shot once he mops up Clay Guida.
If clay pulls off another one of his shitty "victories" I will be so pissed.
We already had one contender knocked off by a midcarder in one of Joe Silva’s very few mistake matchups.
by Rob Young on Oct 10, 2011 5:36 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That being Guillard vs. Lauzon to be specific.
by Rob Young on Oct 10, 2011 5:37 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
So MMA has horrid announcing, horrid refing, horrid judging
Maybe they should focus on fixing themselves instead of “global domination” or some shit.
My Blog on lifting, movies, fish, and some mma: www.themindofshadow.blogspot.com
by dbcb on Oct 9, 2011 6:14 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
fixing themselves doesn't make any fucking money
I purchased a crowbar and 3 gallons of Goof Off, worked for three arduous hours and was still unable to pry IKilled007 off Jon Jones' nuts.
by Earl Montclair on Oct 9, 2011 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
More fighters should go the Almeida route and become judges……I suppose as long as Roth doesnt try to become a judge things will never be as bad as they could be
I purchased a crowbar and 3 gallons of Goof Off, worked for three arduous hours and was still unable to pry IKilled007 off Jon Jones' nuts.
by Earl Montclair on Oct 9, 2011 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Fighters becoming judges seems a great idea in principle. What do you have to do to get licensed as a judge for MMA>?
You Come At The King, You Best Not Miss
by Our Bovine Public on Oct 9, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh I didnt mean I was going to do it, I was just wondering if they had to do anything to become one
You Come At The King, You Best Not Miss
by Our Bovine Public on Oct 10, 2011 8:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Not going to change much. I believe all three judges that thought Elkins beat Omigawa were all former combat athletes.
by discoandherpes on Oct 9, 2011 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions
This made me laugh hard
So true. You get a rec from my stingy self.
"What the ancients called a clever fighter is one who not only wins, but excels in winning with ease."
Why does it say I flagged it when I rec'd it?
"What the ancients called a clever fighter is one who not only wins, but excels in winning with ease."
it does it to me too
I purchased a crowbar and 3 gallons of Goof Off, worked for three arduous hours and was still unable to pry IKilled007 off Jon Jones' nuts.
by Earl Montclair on Oct 9, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh alright.
I know I’m not as smart as Cecil but damn I thought I was doing something wrong.
"What the ancients called a clever fighter is one who not only wins, but excels in winning with ease."
It actually makes all the money
People ain’t gonna want to buy a product if it is problematic.
Read: Toblerone Jones
by Neil Manich on Oct 10, 2011 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Seriously.
They’re embarking on a new era with the Fox Deal, time to take EVERYTHING up a notch. I still think Rogan is pretty good, he just gets focused on a narrative, or what’s surprising to him, to the complete detriment of commentating evenly. The real problem is he has to do Goldberg’s job for him half the time. Joe is half-calling the fight, and trying to commentate on the action at the same time. Not to mention the inane voice-over commercials in the midst of the action. “This round brought to you by Summer’s Eve, keeping you fresh and clean, all through your OOHHHH!!! Huge headkick by _!!!!!!!! He’s moving to mount!!!! fresh and clean, all through your day!!! Arm Triangle!!!!”
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 9, 2011 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Listening to Rogan fellate Kenny Florian for 25 minutes was fucking embarrassing.
I purchased a crowbar and 3 gallons of Goof Off, worked for three arduous hours and was still unable to pry IKilled007 off Jon Jones' nuts.
by Earl Montclair on Oct 9, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
i usually defend Rogan
but he was horrendous last night.
his florian love, or garcia love, or his “underrated ground game” shit when STan is getting pwned hard on the ground.. it makes me sick
He gets stuck on things and it ruins everything. Like everytime Rampage fights he get stuck on his lack of leg kicks. OK WE GET IT. IT is never going to change. stfu already.
My Blog on lifting, movies, fish, and some mma: www.themindofshadow.blogspot.com
Rogan has his good moments but...
These few things drive me crazy and distract me from the fight.
When he says every submission attempt according to him is SOOO close to finishing the guy, even when it is not even close. “It is in deep, he is in BIG TROUUUUUBLE”.
When he says “WOOOOOOW” or “OOOOOHHH MAAAAN” whenever something exciting happens. It is like his speech center of his brain shuts off and will not allow excitement and thoughtful speech at the same time. He is like one of those dolls with a string.
When he completely is a shill for one of the fighters and just talks endlessly about how great they are no matter how the fight is going or even if it matches up with his schtick.
"He's got a great package... and an unusual one!" Joe Rogan (of Lyoto Machida)
Anyone else notice that when Stann was about to go out
Rogan said “Sonnen might go out here”?
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
You know what's amazing?
The OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH moments he screams out are perfect for moments like Big Nog vs. Schaub.
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
No worries.
I know it. The UFC has no control over the judging, and the athletic commissions seem completely unresponsive, to anything.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 9, 2011 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I actually think the judging has been improving.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Oct 9, 2011 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Sokoudjou-Jimmo
Part of Pech's Posse since 2007.
by OleksiyPecherovsHomeboy on Oct 9, 2011 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn't see the fight,
but at least in the recent UFC fights I’ve actually been pretty pleased with recent judging.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Oct 9, 2011 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions
lol.
I heard it was shitty. Sokodjou has been in some WEIRD fights in his career, though.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Oct 10, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I just don't understand it
These types of things aren’t someone lacking technical knowledge or anything like that, it’s just flat out stupidity. How hard can it possibly be to find people who just aren’t idiots? The bar is so, so low.
Not afraid to nitpick
I got suspended from a popular MMA forum
For posting the address to Cecil People’s gym in wake of the first Machida vs Shogun fight (in my defense, the information was publicly available – I just used my initiative).
But it does make you wonder if some of these judges are going to have to die off before they’ll ever get fired or replaced.
Bloody Elbow Grappling Editor.
Follow me on Twitter @KJGould
Like me on Facebook
Creepy
how you mention posting his address and then a sentence later stating “going to have to die off”. I can kinda see how you might get banned for that.
by UncleMax on Oct 9, 2011 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Sometimes it's the only way for a true cultural shift to happen with the next generation
But that’s a broad philosophical argument best suited outside of an MMA blog.
Bloody Elbow Grappling Editor.
Follow me on Twitter @KJGould
Like me on Facebook
i sincerely hope it's not the way you get women to go out with you
everything dana white says is a complete lie
by slantedwindows on Oct 9, 2011 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Machiavellian pragmatism - the forgotten pick-up lines
Coming soon to your local bookstore and kindle.
Bloody Elbow Grappling Editor.
Follow me on Twitter @KJGould
Like me on Facebook
I've seen you post on Sherdog,
did you get banned from Sherdog?
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Oct 9, 2011 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Double yellow carded
At that time.
Bloody Elbow Grappling Editor.
Follow me on Twitter @KJGould
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Haha, the infamous dubs.
I’m so glad I stopped posting on the dog.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Oct 9, 2011 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Not only is the community of a generally higher level,
but the layout here is WAY better.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Oct 9, 2011 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Sherdog hasn't changed its design in about 10 years
I don’t care for most of the writers either (based on their work)
Bloody Elbow Grappling Editor.
Follow me on Twitter @KJGould
Like me on Facebook
Breen is the man,
the rest of the staff writers are so- so. Knapp and Nelson are decent. Marcelo Alonso writes on SD, which is pretty cool.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Oct 9, 2011 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
the man???
Big Nog is the man. Anderson Silva is the man. Jordan breen is a dude that writes that knows less about fighting than KJ. I will take Kj’s opinion over his. I like breen’s interviews.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Oct 9, 2011 11:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Blasphemy!
You can’t talk about He Who Knows all About MMA like that! THE GUY WATCHES SHOOTO FOR FUCKS SAKE. SHOOTO!
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Oct 10, 2011 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions
lol
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Oct 10, 2011 1:08 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't mind Breen
I don’t mind Breen
His opinions are usually succinct and concise and don’t have snarky, bitter overtones. He also regularly has guys like Kid Nate and Luke Thomas on one of his radio shows. Had a pretty good talk with Maggie Hendricks about amateur wrestling.
Bloody Elbow Grappling Editor.
Follow me on Twitter @KJGould
Like me on Facebook
I just have respect for his vast knowledge of MMA history,
and just general goings on of fights on a global scale. He really has alot of knowledge of prospects, of which fights matter, etc.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Oct 10, 2011 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
If you are referring to the underground
then be happy. That place is 10% awesome with really knowledgable posters who have been on it since it was submissionfighting.com and train all the time. The other 90% are trolls, dipshits, and people who would defend a mass-murderer if he had a pro mma record.
BOOSH
Yeah, I don't particularly like the UG either
It went from an unusable eyesore, to an unusable eyesore you have to pay for just to get it to work properly. No thanks.
Bloody Elbow Grappling Editor.
Follow me on Twitter @KJGould
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as soon as Crosby and Peoples' names flashed on the screen I knew we were fucked.
Crosby is the guy sho scored Penn / Edgar 1 50-45 for Edgar.
Hey
I scored it 49-46 Edgar
http://unintelligentdefense.blogspot.com
by MattParker117 on Oct 9, 2011 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions
You also scored Aldo/Florian for Kenny
:p - orcus
Most of the time I am a rather quiet fellow, who likes to read about Philosophy, Mathematics and History, but like most people I also have a deep appreciation of sex and violence... - John Danaher
I didn't think the first round was an OMFG THIS HAS TO BE 10-8...
…like I felt about Edgar v. Maynard II. I figured one or two judges would give him a 10-8, but I didn’t see three judges giving him a 10-8.
The scorecard isn’t that much of an abomination at all. I think it was a 10-8 for Maynard, but I didn’t think it was overwhelmingly a 10-8.
I mean, I thought Aaron Simpson was much closer to a 10-8 round in the 1st and 2nd rounds against Big Red. That was borderline embarrassing to see a professional fighter tooled that bad.
Real men don't eat honey. They chew bees. - Gilbert Yvel
fight II was a pure 10-7...
this was an easy 10-8.
My Blog on lifting, movies, fish, and some mma: www.themindofshadow.blogspot.com
I don't think it was an easy 10-8...
…and two of the judges obviously agreed. I scored it a 10-8, but it wasn’t easy (and I tend to use the 10-8 when needed). Just like I thought the first fight wasn’t easily a 10-7. I scored the first fight 10-8 and thought it was a borderline 10-7.
I think the Simpson fight was much more dominant and warranted 10-8 rounds more than the first round of the Edgar fight. Yet that fight didn’t receive a single 10-8.
Real men don't eat honey. They chew bees. - Gilbert Yvel
I wonder what the odds were
of the fight ending in a draw?
Anyway, just like the UFC awards Submission, Knockout, and Fight OTN bonuses. I wish they could award ScoreCardOTN bonuses so the judges would have a little more incentive to do their job properly.
My whole profile here is based on the piss poor judging of MMA. With my screen name ScoreCardOTN and the pic of the three blind mice voting who won the fight. Some things never change.
Just Breed!
by ScoreCardOTN on Oct 9, 2011 7:31 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Who are you people thinking that a 10-8 wasn't warranted?
How many more times did Edgar have to be rocked and dropped for that?
Edgar mounted some offense after the 5th or 6th knockdown in the 2nd fight but it was still sure as hell a 10-8 MINIMUM.
These judges are so afraid of 10-8s it’s not even funny.
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
Agreed. Even though Edgar would have still been ahead going into the fifth.
by discoandherpes on Oct 9, 2011 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
is there a reason the website is only letting me see the laest 2 stories?
It wont let me scroll down to any of the old stories anyone know why?
Some one else was having this same problem earlier today
:p - orcus
Most of the time I am a rather quiet fellow, who likes to read about Philosophy, Mathematics and History, but like most people I also have a deep appreciation of sex and violence... - John Danaher
Off-topic
Subo scored the Aldo vs. Florian fight for Florian.
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
by SSreporters on Oct 9, 2011 10:22 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
A Subo is a "top control, wrestling, octogon control, and positioning" mark
Which is why in his world Brookins probably beat Koch.
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
Yeah he is.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Oct 10, 2011 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions
It's not a coincidence.
Subo has the strange ability to always champion unpopular positions that go with the status quo. He’s the guy that roots for the Yankees not because he’s from NYC, but because they’re always the favorite.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Oct 10, 2011 6:06 AM EDT up reply actions
wow i didnt know someone could know less about mma than goldberg.
I underestimated his incompetence.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Oct 9, 2011 11:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Go to his twitter @FightlinkerSubo
He actually had Florian up 3 rounds to 1 and appeared to be shocked that Aldo won the fight.
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
by SSreporters on Oct 10, 2011 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
What gets me is Nelson “Doc” Hamilton is the one who preaches over and over that something needs to be done with mma judges and how bad the 10-9 scoring system is and preaches his half point scoring system and yet the man can’t even score a fight right under the 10-9 system.
Yeah at the end of the day, the system won't matter if judges don't implement it well.
In fact, calling it a system when it’s applied so haphazardly is being generous. They really might as well to let the judges just pick the winner at the end. Pride judging FTW.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 10, 2011 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions
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