UFC 137 Results: The Great, Disappointing Career of B.J. Penn
by Fraser Coffeen on Oct 31, 2011 3:00 PM EDT
in UFC Analysis
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A two time UFC champion. One of only two men to hold belts in two different weight classes. A fighter who has fought everywhere from Lightweight up to Heavyweight against the best in the world. And now, he's gone.
B.J. Penn, one of the most exciting fighters in the sport, has retired. After a decision loss to Nick Diaz at UFC 137, Penn quietly stepped away from the game, bringing his 10 year, 26 fight career to an end. There's no question that he accomplished much in those years, but where does he stand in the all time ranks?
Penn entered the sport as a dynamic 22 year old... well, "Prodigy." It's a fitting nickname, given to Penn after he became a top ranked jiu jitsu competitor a mere three years after he started training. With that background, he came to MMA, immediately diving into the UFC and challenging for a world title less than a year after his debut. Of those early fights, it was Penn's 3rd fight that really turned heads - a blistering 8 second destruction of Caol Uno that remains one of the sport's all-time great highlights. Based on the strength of that win, Penn challenged Lightweight champion Jens Pulver in what was only B.J.'s fourth fight. Pulver outpointed Penn, earning a unanimous decision victory.
Most fighters would take a decision loss to the champion in their fourth fight as a positive accomplishment, but Penn had loftier goals. Right from the beginning, he stated that his goal was not simply to be champion, but to be the best ever. Losing was not a part of the equation for him, and the Pulver loss was a shock to the young fighter. When Pulver left the UFC, Penn had a second shot at the now vacant title, but once again was thwarted when he and Uno battled to a Draw. Penn was frustrated, but as it turned out, he was also on the verge of his greatest glory.
More on the career and legacy of B.J. Penn in the full entry.
SBN coverage of UFC 137 Results: Penn vs. Diaz
After the Uno fight, the UFC began disbanding the Lightweight division. Penn took a fight outside the company, defeating top Japanese Lightweight Takanori Gomi. Penn then returned to the UFC and was surprisingly given an immediate title shot at Welterweight champion Matt Hughes. This despite the fact that Penn had never before fought at Welterweight. Hughes at the time was absolutely dominant, on a 13 fight win streak that included 5 straight title defenses. He was a heavy favorite, but Penn shocked the world by taking Hughes's back and choking the champion out in the first round. Finally, B.J. Penn was a champion. But the celebration didn't last long.
Penn left the UFC over an ugly contract dispute, citing a lack of competition for him in the company. Over the next two years, he fought around the world anywhere from Welterweight to Heavyweight, facing men like Renzo Gracie and Lyoto Machida.
In 2006, Penn returned to the UFC, touting himself as the real Welterweight champion. Unfortunately, his Welterweight return left something to be desired, as he dropped back to back fights to Georges St. Pierre and Matt Hughes before leaving the Welterweight division to return to Lightweight. After a coaching stint on The Ultimate Fighter and earning revenge by defeating old rival Jens Pulver, Penn got his third shot at the Lightweight title. He faced Joe Stevenson for the vacant title, choking Stevenson out in a brutal bloodbath to claim his second UFC championship.
Penn would prove to be the most dominant Light weight champion to date in the UFC, defending the belt three times, all in impressive fashion, before being upset by Frankie Edgar in two straight fights. During that title run, the wandering eye of Penn returned. Unhappy with simply ruling over the 155 ranks, Penn moved up to challenge Georges St. Pierre, for GSP's Welterweight title. The champion vs. champion fight was huge, but in the end, once again Penn could not topple his old foe.
After the Edgar loses, he returned to Welterweight for one final run, going 1-1-1 against Hughes, Diaz, and Jon Fitch.
When you look at these accomplishments, there can be no question that B.J. Penn is a Hall of Fame fighter. And yet, his career still leaves a lingering air of disappointment. Why?
Perhaps it's the lofty goals B.J. set for himself early on. Not just greatness, but THE greatest. That's a high bar, and Penn never cleared it. But it's more than that. It's also the feeling that maybe, just maybe, he could have cleared it. What if Penn had not left the UFC after losing to Hughes? What if he hadn't moved up to fight in divisions that allowed him to go easy on his training? What if, every time he had stepped into the cage, B.J. Penn had been dedicated and focused and had fought up to the potential he showed in many of his fights?
"[T]he thing with BJ Penn is sometimes you don't know what BJ Penn will show up to the fight. If he's well prepared or injured - I don't know. Sometimes, I saw him perform very well at the best of his ability he's the best guy. But when he doesn't perform at the best of his ability he can be beat." That's the reality of B.J. Penn as spoken by a man who knew it well - Georges St. Pierre.
In the end, B.J. Penn managed to be two seemingly contradictory things - one of the best the sport has ever seen, as well as a man who never quite lived up to his fullest potential. It's a career 99% of fighters would be proud to have. For Penn's sake, I hope he's in that 99%.
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He could've been the GOAT
if someone had kidnapped his ass and taken him to a camp where he’d be pushed every day. He had such amazing skills and abilities that he got a bit complacent over the years, but that shouldn’t diminish his accomplishments.
by Andy Davis on Oct 31, 2011 3:06 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
I agree
I have been saying for a while that he could have been GoaT if he had the drive of GSP. He’s surrounded by yes men so that stunted his potential. I still remember how stupid his corner was during the second Edgar fight. Instead of telling him to do stuff they were spending the minute calling Frankie a “pussy” and a “cock sucker” and such.
He could've been the GOAT
If the lightweight division had been sustainable and the UFC had kept him. 155 was always BJ’s best weight, and if the bulk of his 26 career fights had been in the UFC’s lightweight division, he definitely would’ve been great.
But BJ made his career out of taking on non- stop challenges, at higher weights, abroad, against top challengers. And winning twice as often as he lost. He’s still an all time great, and the best lightweight thus far in MMA history.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
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by ElliotMatheny on Oct 31, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
His non-stop challenges are what makes BJ’s career so unique. I like the fact that he left the UFC and beat Gomi etc. He was definitely the true fighter who does what he wants and always challenged himself. One thing about BJ, he was never afraid or intimidated by anyone. He embodied the love of fighting.
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The Gomi win is definitely BJ's best win at lightweight.
Sherk was also a fantastic win, but Gomi was JUST coming off of his fantastic run as the Shooto Welterweight (154 lb) champ, and would then go on to dominate in PRIDE.
And I agree- his willingness to seek challenges where they could best be found is/ was one of his most admirable qualities. It seems like he potentially COULD return for a retirement fight, but if he doesn’t, don’t let his 67% win- loss percentage fool you; BJ Penn had a steep curve and was really an A- student.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Nov 1, 2011 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Lightweight BJ 11-3-1
Above Lightweight BJ 5-5-1
The Prodigy probably should come back as a lightweight and realize the dream of getting the welterweight title then dropping down to lightweight and getting the lightweight title and holding them at them same time dream is not realistic right now.
Even getting the Welterweight and Lightweight titles in the UFC is already great in itself, even if not at the same time. The guy is a legend just has to get his mind together. One more Lightweight title run wouldn’t be such a bad Idea before retiring, If he gets the Lightweight title again being a two time UFC Lightweight champion and a one time UFC Welterweight champion is a good legacy to leave in MMA In my opinion.
Another run in the deepest division of the UFC with Penn’s lack of motivation would be disastrous. If BJ wants to retire, we should let him retire.
Goldberg: "Speakin a little portuguesa"
Rogan: "Uh, that's Japanese, brotha."
Goldberg: "Is it? I should've known that."
Rogan: "You're the one married to a Japanese chick."
Goldberg: "That is correct."
Screw you
BJ will not retire. I’m sending a strongly worded letter to him as we speak, and I"m sitting down with my team to come up with a strategy to make sure that he doesn’t retire. We will force him to fight!
my band
http://www.groggybikini.com
Against the heavier fighters BJ has fought, 5-5-1 is a damn good record. Those guys aren’t just significantly heavier, they’re some of the the best in their division on top of that size advantage.
Goldberg: "Speakin a little portuguesa"
Rogan: "Uh, that's Japanese, brotha."
Goldberg: "Is it? I should've known that."
Rogan: "You're the one married to a Japanese chick."
Goldberg: "That is correct."
And that should be 13-2-0 at lightweight, as far as I'm concerned.
He beat Frankie the first time around, and deserved the nod over Uno in their rematch, IMO
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Oct 31, 2011 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
What is this I don't even
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Oct 31, 2011 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
It's a.....Mike Goldberg "Carl Uno" reference
I’ll get my coat.
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
Did he really say Carl?
Oh Mike.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Oct 31, 2011 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not sure if he retired or not
In a statement to his fans on his website he says, and I quote,
"I want to thank all the fans for their love and support. I have decided to take some time off to enjoy life, train and teach. I will keep you guys posted with what’s next."
Not sure what that means but he may be crawfishin’ a bit.
http://bjpenn.com/news/2011/10/31/ufc-137-bj-penns-message-to-the-fans-7172.html
"What the ancients called a clever fighter is one who not only wins, but excels in winning with ease."
He isn’t going to retire on an epic beatdown like that.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 31, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly what I was thinking
"What the ancients called a clever fighter is one who not only wins, but excels in winning with ease."
If Frankie loses the title
We’ll see BJ back at lightweight in a heartbeat.
by Patrick Wyman on Oct 31, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd love to see BJ fight again at LW, regardless for his swan song
LeBron James - 0 Charles Barkley - 0 Karl Malone/John Stockton - 0 Sun Yue -1
He shouldn’t be fighting at WW but LW is a million times deeper than when he reigned over it. It’s hard for me to find a good matchup, even as a swan song.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
by memitim on Oct 31, 2011 3:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I’m not saying that BJ would dominate at lightweight, just that Frankie Edgar was the reason he left the division in the first place. At the same time, though, I think BJ would be a handful for any guy currently fighting there — I’d be comfortable picking him over Maynard, Guida, and maybe Melendez.
"Denique nullumst iam dictum quod non dictum sit prius."-- Terence
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
by Patrick Wyman on Oct 31, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I know what you are saying. Maynard might be the best of the bunch. Guida’s cardio could be dangerous for BJ and Melendez also has solid cardio and is incredibly violent. I think he might actually be a better fighter than Nick. If he does fight again I want to see him fight someone worthy of BJ’s last fight and I would love to see him go out on a W.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
by memitim on Oct 31, 2011 4:12 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
BJ is an awful matchup for Guida.
Pretty sure he’d stop the TD, box him up, take his back and choke him out. Melendez/Penn would be an awesome, awesome fight.
"Hi. I don't know you." - me
"Cigano punch my face...all the time." - Anderson Silva
Back then, sure. Guida has become a much better fighter with each fight.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
by memitim on Oct 31, 2011 5:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
True but he's still Guida.
And BJ’s still BJ. Different levels.
"Hi. I don't know you." - me
"Cigano punch my face...all the time." - Anderson Silva
Get back to me after the Bendo fight. I think that will tell us a lot about where Guida is at right now as a fighter.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
Guida can avoid too much damage for long enough to tire out BJ
And although it pays me to say this, Guida by UD.
Business as Usual has a STACKED team. I mean, we could win with just me, but you know.
I think you’re right. I think BJ’s second loss to Edgar really demotivated him, where he chose to go to welterweight with no definitive plans for a title shot. BJ is clearly strongest at lightweight, and if Edgar falls from the top, I hope BJ takes notice.
Goldberg: "Speakin a little portuguesa"
Rogan: "Uh, that's Japanese, brotha."
Goldberg: "Is it? I should've known that."
Rogan: "You're the one married to a Japanese chick."
Goldberg: "That is correct."
Beatdown?
That was not one sided. See: Round 1 and part of 3
Business as Usual has a STACKED team. I mean, we could win with just me, but you know.
by halitosis on Oct 31, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
C’mon. Even Dana said no one has beaten down BJ like that ever. He was valiant in the third and got a shot or two in but he was getting shredded. That was the worst beating he has ever received. I’ve never seen BJ’s face look the way it did after that fight.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
by memitim on Oct 31, 2011 4:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Even Dana said
Is not a good reason for anything. In a matter of opinion, Dana will say anything to hype his guys.
www.mmalinker.com
by exsanguinator on Oct 31, 2011 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I was just pointing out that it was clear that was the worst beating BJ has ever received. Plain and simple.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
by memitim on Oct 31, 2011 5:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I’d say the second GSP beating was worse. Nick didn’t make BJ quit. I agree though, Nick really fucked him up.
www.mmalinker.com
by exsanguinator on Oct 31, 2011 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
The GSP fight is about the same level. Agreed. Imagine if this was a five round fight. I don’t think BJ, in the shape he was in, would have made it. That eye was in serious trouble.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
by memitim on Oct 31, 2011 5:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Honestly at the rate at which Penn was taking shots and not responding
A stoppage in the 2nd was nearly in the cards on the basis that he looked out on his feet.
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
If they had two extra rounds, I think Diaz would have stopped him. Or at least BJ’s corner, or the doctor.
by Horselover Fat on Oct 31, 2011 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Post with some modicum of intelligence and reason or you get the fuck out and grow up while your at it.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
by memitim on Oct 31, 2011 5:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Look at his profile pic
He’s not here for intelligent debate.
Thanks though, and on the debate aspect, I don’t think BJ was so horribly beaten. It was the second worst beating he’s taken in his career, and he was still able to fight back somewhat successfully in the end of the third, and clearly won the first.
Business as Usual has a STACKED team. I mean, we could win with just me, but you know.
When I responded it was mobile so I didn’t see the troll face. Now I get it. There is just no place for that kind of response here. You and I may agree or disagree but we treat people with fucking respect.
Yes, the GSP fight was a bad beating and if Penn had to answer the bell for the fourth round I think the results would have been the same. That eye was fucked.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
I’d be down for a Gray Maynard fight.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Oct 31, 2011 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I can’t help but make the comparison between Penn and Fedor’s career in terms of both going off the rails too early. Both could still be competing today against the top echelon of the sport if they only stepped outside their comfort zones, headed to the mainland US and joined an elite MMA team. It’s their choice but think of how much we, as fans, missed from these two greats. Jesus and babies.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
by memitim on Oct 31, 2011 3:19 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
BJ's Ego Was His Problem
I love BJ Penn, but he is really frustrating as a fan. I’m not really even talking about his WW stints. There are too many heavy WW’s that can lean on the guy and wear him out. He’d always do ok there, but I think at this level it’s hard to fight that far above your natural weight class.
1) I think the most telling thing about Penn is his stubbornness. How many MMA fighters would leave a trainer (marionvich) after 3 fights where he absolutely destroyed his competition. Whether or not he thought he was the reason, it’s kinda hard to argue with the track record under his training. Especially in the 2nd Edgar fight…he looked absolutely flat-footed and lazy.
2) How many MMA fighters don’t play to their strength. He has the ability to take down almost everyone he fights, yet chooses to stand and box with them. When he chose to take down Edgar in the second fight, he had his back (or mount) in like 5 seconds. If GSP had an advantage like that, he’d exploit it.
3) Choosing to box with Diaz instead of taking him down.
Hopefully he’ll come back for one more run. I don’t think he’s washed up at all…I think he’s fighting at the wrong weight class and training with the wrong people. Move your family out of Hilo and train someplace else.
the Frankie Edgar fights
Judging from what I see . . . Frankie Edgar, just like (Dominic Cruz) makes some guys look absolutely flat-footed, lazy and old.
Something tells me that Edgar would beat Penn 9 times out of 10.
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So . . . Bernard Hopkins was stopped via single leg takedown?
by VeeisAnimated on Oct 31, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
There's a kryptonite for every guy
And Edgar is it for BJ at lightweight.
by Patrick Wyman on Oct 31, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Gray Maynard (with a bad) can’t stop Edgar.
Sean Sherk with his short reach and slow feet can’t stop Edgar.
Penn . . . well the we all saw what happened in two contests.
Florian versus Edgar would be interesting but everybody knows Florian doesn’t win championship fights. (ouch).
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So . . . Bernard Hopkins was stopped via single leg takedown?
by VeeisAnimated on Oct 31, 2011 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Gray Maynard (with a bat) can’t stop Edgar.
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So . . . Bernard Hopkins was stopped via single leg takedown?
by VeeisAnimated on Oct 31, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I have a hard time seeing
Anyone that can beat Frankie at this point. Cerrone could present some huge problems for him if he makes it that far. Diaz as well but I don’t see Diaz ever getting that high up in the rankings. Before his last fight I though Guillard would be able to give Frankie all he wants and then some.
"What the ancients called a clever fighter is one who not only wins, but excels in winning with ease."
Sure I think there are some guys that will pose problems for Edgar but I don’t think Diaz will be one of them. Edgar will just take him down and keep him pinned on the floor.
I’ve had my doubts about Frankie Edgar but until proven otherwise . . . we are witnessing a sure-shot Hall of Fame career. And how do you that? You not only beat the former legendary champion, you do twice and leave no doubts.
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So . . . Bernard Hopkins was stopped via single leg takedown?
by VeeisAnimated on Oct 31, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I completely forgot about Melendez
That will be an epic war and I think Gil will win it.
"What the ancients called a clever fighter is one who not only wins, but excels in winning with ease."
by dedstrk316 on Oct 31, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good point!
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So . . . Bernard Hopkins was stopped via single leg takedown?
by VeeisAnimated on Oct 31, 2011 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the key to beating Edgar will be someone who can blitz him early and try to finish him. With Edgar’s speed and cardio, the longer the fight goes the less likely he is to lose. Hit him hard early, go all out for the finish, and if you fail you take your beating for the next few rounds and lose, but that would happen anyway.
by MS_Dos_Santos on Oct 31, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, if Maynard had learned a few front chokes he could’ve been champion twice by now.
by MS_Dos_Santos on Oct 31, 2011 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely
"What the ancients called a clever fighter is one who not only wins, but excels in winning with ease."
I saw this coming.
Then again people have been saying this for quite a while.
Heck, BJ Penn kind of alluded to this here and there.
--------
So . . . Bernard Hopkins was stopped via single leg takedown?
Simple as this
Could his reign been longer? Yes. Did he leave potential on the table? Yes. But did he reach the highest level of his profession? Yes. In two different weight classes.Extremely entertaining fighter. Fun as hell to watch whether you care about technique or finishes. The Florian fight is still one of my favorites. He turned it on and blew Kenny right out of the octagon almost like it was a fight on DBZ and he decided to power up.
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by JJB73 on Oct 31, 2011 3:26 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 3 recs
Penn will be back. But he won't be one of the all time greats.
I consider guys like Silva and GSP as all time greats (or will be). Penn’s record just doesn’t hold up to theirs unfortunately. Amazing fighter though. Just one of those “what could have been” scenarios.
Twitter - @pud333 Follow me and I shall lead you to the promised land!
by pud333 on Oct 31, 2011 3:27 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I don't see how he's not an all time great
With his accomplishments I’d put him up there around Hughes and above Franklin. I guess it depends on how you define all time great.
LeBron James - 0 Charles Barkley - 0 Karl Malone/John Stockton - 0 Sun Yue -1
Yeah it's subjective
Twitter - @pud333 Follow me and I shall lead you to the promised land!
by pud333 on Oct 31, 2011 3:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Randy Couture's record doesn't hold WATER
And yet, Randy has held UFC titles in two different weight classes.
If Randy is considered a great hall-of-fame MMA fighters then I don’t see any reason why BJ Penn should not be given the same distinction.
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So . . . Bernard Hopkins was stopped via single leg takedown?
by VeeisAnimated on Oct 31, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Randy is an interesting case. People are all sentimental over him.
Personally, it doesn’t compare to what I think is great, but maybe he gets bonus points for doing things as old as he was.
Twitter - @pud333 Follow me and I shall lead you to the promised land!
by pud333 on Oct 31, 2011 4:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
he'll be back
he’s only 32. i could still see him taking back the LW belt, even from edgar. he just shouldn’t be screwing around at WW.
From edgar who?
Jack Edgar?
J. Edgar Hoover?
I doubt you’re talking about Frankie Edgar.
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So . . . Bernard Hopkins was stopped via single leg takedown?
by VeeisAnimated on Oct 31, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Edgar Allan Poe
"What the ancients called a clever fighter is one who not only wins, but excels in winning with ease."
Edgar?
"So even though it’s the gayest sport ever, MMA is still the best sport ever. I love my gay sport." - Wrestling Uber Alles
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by alicks on Oct 31, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Sugar
and water. Give me some.
"What the ancients called a clever fighter is one who not only wins, but excels in winning with ease."
why not?
he ought to have won the first fight. i agree penn would be an underdog, but the idea that penn could never win that fight is pretty silly.
I’m not saying never. But 9 out of 10 times, the victor will be Edgar.
He ought to have won the first fight.
Hmmm . . . 3 judges in Abu Dhabi disagree.
And GSP lost to BJ Penn in their first fight?
But yeah, I did think Nam Phan defeated Leonard Garcia during the first fight. He had a 2nd opportunity to prove he should have been the victor. YOu know what, he did.
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So . . . Bernard Hopkins was stopped via single leg takedown?
by VeeisAnimated on Oct 31, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
BJ Penn
I am one of the BJ nuthuggers who really thinks that a motivated BJ can beat just about anyone (short of GSP – I am a nuthugger but I’m not stupid). The BJ that showed up for the Sanchez fight could beat Diaz or Edgar. He just never showed up.
certified warlord
He may not have always win
But he consistently fought the very best fighters at lw and ww.
these are not boxing gloves in which they are wearing
by Christopher Kelly on Oct 31, 2011 3:33 PM EDT reply actions
BJ got sanchezed by Diaz
I had to laugh at all the Diaz haters who were hugging BJ nuts, posting all kinds of trash talk about how Diaz sucks. Even now after BJ got his face destroyed, some are saying “if only”…..yeah whatever, your boy got skoolled hard mode. Now all the same dudes will be saying GSP can do it. Guess what, ain’t gonna happen bro/ DIAZ delivers like I’ve said over and over. So do me a favor fanboys and get the fuck out of here.
Let's face it!
In the Diaz fight, WW Penn once again looked pudgy and gassed somewhere toward the end of the first round. Penn does not take training very seriously.
You obviously have never trained kook.
Bj gassed after a competitive first round-not a beat down that made him tired like you’re saying.
Maybe if you learned about the sport instead of jacking off to Diaz posters you wouldn’t be saying such biased stupid shit on an article praising a legend.
by Keyboard_warrior on Oct 31, 2011 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I lol'd at this post and your username.
"So even though it’s the gayest sport ever, MMA is still the best sport ever. I love my gay sport." - Wrestling Uber Alles
"If your [BJJ] training involves any part of you or training equipment inside any of your partner’s orifices, you’re doing it wrong." - gzl5000
by alicks on Oct 31, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Let's stop eulogizing
Penn isn’t retired. He needs to take some time off, and come back at 155. I’m counting on it.
Real BElitists only rec ironically.
He might be doing just that, via junkie:
"I want to thank all the fans for their love and support," he wrote at BJPenn.com. "I have decided to take some time off to enjoy life, train, and teach. I will keep you guys posted with what’s next."
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Oct 31, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
*Via Weekly
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Oct 31, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously, if you don’t think Penn is one of the greatest of all time go die. Like right now, don’t waste any time.
"UFC is so gay, pride is awesome!"
What a mature and intelligent contribution to the thread smh
by RobSchneider'sSuccessfulTwin on Oct 31, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s a stupid, indefensible position. I won’t be polite.
"UFC is so gay, pride is awesome!"
by Hendo_One-Shot on Oct 31, 2011 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Also you should be lynched for saying “smh”
"UFC is so gay, pride is awesome!"
by Hendo_One-Shot on Oct 31, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn't say it. I typed it. And I did it, because my phone sucks at making comments
If I type too much in a post it freezes. I was tempting fate posting as much as I did, but it got the point across.
by RobSchneider'sSuccessfulTwin on Nov 1, 2011 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions
“All time” being all of 18 years.. it’s really not saying much.
by Horselover Fat on Oct 31, 2011 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Penn is in top 5 p4p all time!!
For sure BJ is a top 5 p4p all time great.How any1 can have Franklin in top 10 is beyond me. Just him taking on n being competitive vs Machida (former UFC,light heavywt champ)says a lot. Machida easily beat Franklin via tko in another promotion.
by Hankverdee on Oct 31, 2011 4:46 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I agree, but think about how quicky he could drop out of the top 5. Cruz, Jones, Edgar, Cain and Aldo all have a great chance at surpassing him. I think saying Penn is on of the best of all time depends on how you define it. I would say he is great, but just a step below GSP, Silva, and Fedor, and even with Hughes as a step above everybody else.
BJ could of been gone years ago
He said he would of retired if he got that Lightweight belt in 2002 from Pulver
If only he got this armbar earlier in round one instead of the end of round one he would of been retired at 4-0
He probably would of never moved up to welterweight with that win because he would have already been retired as a Lightweight. The reason he moved up to 170lb and won the Welterweight belt from Matt Hughes is because the UFC got rid of Lightweight with it’s eventually lack in depth in around 2002-2003 and he never got to get a belt there yet.
Can anyone imagine Frankie Edgar or hell GSP standing and trading recklessly with Machida
I can’t either. The dude is a fearless and exceptionally talented beast. Titles in 2 weight divisions. That’s enough to cement his legacy for me as one of the greatest, exciting, fun to watch athletes ever
ONE FC NEVER DIE
One of the greatest ever.
No denying it. When the money runs out, he’ll be back.
You know he doesn’t even need the money, right? he comes from wealth.
"UFC is so gay, pride is awesome!"
by Hendo_One-Shot on Oct 31, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
In my experience...
The more money you got, the more you want. Poor people just don’t know any better.
Meh
He was still a great and dominate lightweight champ.
Even if he hadn’t fought in crazy places and went up in weight and lost he still would have lost a few times in lightweight anyway. There is a lot of Dana White propaganda floating around in there from when they didn’t get along.
Either way, he has always been a bit overrated by fans and journalists and always under motivated in his personal life.
Asking what might have been is useless.
4 ways BJ can be dominant today:
1. Mar
2. In
3. O
4. Vich
by INGO B on Oct 31, 2011 6:16 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I disagree.
Marv M has a history of overtraining (himself AND his pupils) and I suspect that although BJ was in fantastic shape for the Florian and Sanchez fights, he couldn’t maintain the kind of pace that Marv forced on him. I think it might’ve aged BJ’s athletic career at an accelerated pace. Notice the knee supports he had to wear for the Edgar fight.
Just a theory, and it’s hard to tell what’s the truth because they haven’t really talked about it, but I think at the very least it’s presumptuous to say that BJ fired Marv solely because he’s lazy and wanted to surround himself with a bunch of yes men.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Oct 31, 2011 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve noticed that the MMA community tends to view fighters as static entities, until something very dramatic happens and then the new label sticks. People don’t notice gradual change, and will nitpick grappling errors made by fighters 3 or 4 years ago and act as if that is still a relevant problem. Think of how a veteran fighter can go from being a dangerous contender to being too old to compete after one loss.
While sometimes it is true, like with Chael Sonnen his triangle illiteracy, but more often fighters steadily improve or decline skills or physical attributes and the results sometimes take a few fights to catch up. Go back and watch Penn’s UFC 34 fight with Uno and you’ll see a totally different Penn, faster and more explosive.
Penn had a fantastic, epic career. From 2001 to 2009 he was a DOMINATE fighter, who lost on occasion, which happens in sometimes in MMA, and really didn’t have many real challengers at 155 lbs. Think about how many guys who were collecting serious scalps in 2001 or 2002 is still getting main events in the UFC against elite fighters and turning in FOTNs?
Penn’s anyone, anywhere, any weight (as well as the UFC’s little break from Lightweight) did hurt his overall record because he could have just been cleaning out 155 lbs in 2004-2006, but instead he won a Welterweight title so who knows, it prolly balances out.
If MMA had a real, serious Hall of Fame with a baseball level of cynical voting and odd traditions, Penn would be a first ballot guy.
aka BuckeyedBear34
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
~ Napoleon Bonaparte
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
Dominate - Dominant
So close, so far
by Patrick John McGreevy on Nov 2, 2011 3:15 AM EDT up reply actions
the worse person to b.j's legacy is himself
Sometimes b.j. looks unstoppable then sometimes it’s like dude did you even train for this fight. penn could have beat edgar but it just seemed to me he didn’t care and thats why i think he tarnished his own legacy. same when he fought gsp. the second time he knew what he needed to do and it just seemed like he thought doing the same thing would win him the fight. to much confidence in his skills and lack of proper training. we have seen a bj when he pushed his body to the limits he is awesome almost unstoppable. if he came into that shape for every fight. i think he could feel better about himself. he could feel confidence even i defeat. that is the reason i think he gets so down when he loses it’s because he knows deep down he didn’t do what he needed to do to be better.
yet what do i know i’m just a fan looking from the outside in. i am a fan of b.j. i just wish he could be super b.j. for every fight. that win or lose he could feel good about himself. that he could beat gsp. to me it’s like no one beats b.j. penn he beats himself.
I've always been a fan of BJ because IMO skill-wise, he's
the definition of a prototype mixed martial artist — a fine fighter standing (his weakness being lack of kicking tech), and fabulous on the ground. On his feet, he can knock someone out, or soften up a guy en route to a submission. I feel like that was always the ‘path’ toward winning a real fight or a sport (MMA) fight.
It’s just too bad he could never gut out a win due to conditioning—he’s too much of a front runner.
You should be slapped in the face for calling his career disappointing. Yes he didn’t reign in one weight class for one promotion for his entire career, he was a fighter and that’s what he did and he did it anywhere, with whoever, at any weight class. His career is a diamond in the rough. No fighter embodied the fearless and focused rage and mentality of warrior than BJ. In a day when moving weight classes is hummed and hawed at, looked down on by Dana, BJ jumped at the chance to fight any and all of them. If BJ were where Silva’s at right now, he’d have fought Jon Jones, Shogun, and probably Brock Lesnar (and you know that’s not a joke) and that can only be said about BJ Penn.
So his career is great and disappointing because he didn’t have as much cardio as everyone would want? The guy wants to enjoy his life and dedicating it to cardio doesn’t do that. Certainly doesn’t make his career disappointing, or a disappointment.
BJ was a diamond in the rough, and I doubt that there will ever again be another fighter quite like him. Instead of looking at his career in such a negative way, you should try celebrating what he’s done in the sport. Think of all the people he converted after watching him fight for the first time? Every fight he flew in on his shield and flew out on his shield.
Shame on you and your silly attempts at writing negatively about someone who’s done nothing but embody the absolute most pure spirit of this unique sport.
my band
http://www.groggybikini.com
its not really disappointing
its more or less underwhelming considering how talented he is. If he had hooked up with a Greg Jackson or AKA who knows how great he would have been. The saddest thing is that BJ is the biggest what if we’ve ever seen in the sport and that’s scary considering how much he’s accomplished. That said BJ forever!!!!
"We will be perfect in every aspect of the game. You drop a pass, you run a mile. You miss a blocking assignment, you run a mile. You fumble the football and I will break my foot off in your John Brown hind parts...and then you will run a mile. Perfection. Let's get to work."
Coach Boone
Remember The Titans [2000]
by jlim4 on Nov 1, 2011 5:22 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You focus on one word and completely ignore the other. GREAT and DISAPPOINTING. I also point out that it’s a career better than 99% of other fighters out there. But BJ wanted the world, and he didn’t quite make it.
It’s disappointing for 2 reasons. 1. Because he didn’t reach the lofty goals that he himself set. 2. Because he didn’t fight every fight in the best shape. He himself has admitted this – why can’t you?
I have no problems with someone not wanting to put every ounce of their life into the sport, and wanting to cruise a tiny bit. That’s fine. But if that’s the choice they make, I think it’s fair to say that they could have done better, right?
Staff Writer - BloodyElbow.com
Follow me on Twitter: @FCoffeen
by Fraser Coffeen on Nov 1, 2011 7:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Sure he could’ve done better, but he (sniff) he’s just so (sniff sniff) wonderful (crackly voice) and I just want to remember him as such!
I totally get what you’re saying, I just wanted your post to be more of what I felt. Sorry if I was strong worded there. Thanks for being respectful in return (bro hug).
my band
http://www.groggybikini.com
No worries at all! Glad you took the time to respond in the first place. Yeah, he is indeed pretty awesome, despite any of his mistakes, and if I failed to convey that, it’s definitely a fault. Dude has been in some GREAT fights in his career. He should feel good about what he has done.
Staff Writer - BloodyElbow.com
Follow me on Twitter: @FCoffeen
by Fraser Coffeen on Nov 2, 2011 7:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Disappointing? Pftt
It’s only disappointing if it’s an internal feeling within yourself. Therefore, its disappointing to you. Not objectively.
The guy had one of the best careers in the entire sport.
If Penn had a disappointing career, then Randy Couture is one of the biggests busts the sport has ever seen.
Illogical.
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