UFC 137 Results: Carlos Condit Got Jobbed Out Of His Title Shot
by Josh Nason on Oct 30, 2011 4:11 PM EDT
in UFC Editorial
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"(Carlos) Condit's in. He's sitting and waiting." -- UFC President Dana White this past Tuesday on whether the outcome of B.J. Penn/Nick Diaz would affect Condit's impending title shot.
How quickly a decision can change, huh?
After Diaz' stirring victory over Penn to close out UFC 137, the question was not if, but when he would get his shot at Welterweight Champion Georges St. Pierre and atone for his previous anti-press conference sins.
But according to White, Diaz would have to wait. The shot had been given to Condit after Diaz' wacky no-show antics and if not for a knee injury to St. Pierre, that title fight would have happened last night. Unless there was a draw, we would have had a nice clean road to another good championship clash next year with deserving competitors.
What's that saying about the best laid plains? They didn't just go astray last night. They went off the road into the abyss.
At the post-event press conference, White said he had a big announcement and was going to wait for Diaz to appear before he said it. At that point, everyone knew what was up. It was just a question of him saying it. Then he did.
"Georges St. Pierre flipped out tonight after Nick Diaz was in the ring. Nick needs motivation...he's got it. He's going to fight Georges St. Pierre. Carlos Condit has agreed to step aside and get the next guy," White told the media.
The light that started burning the fuse was Diaz' post-fight comments about how St. Pierre (sitting cageside) wasn't injured but he was scared to face him. According to White, he has never seen St. Pierre that upset and had to put together the fight. Amazingly by pure coincidence, the battle for the belt will take place in February during Super Bowl weekend -- generally one of the UFC's biggest PPV weekends of the year.
But according to Condit's manager Malki Kawa, Condit didn't step aside at all and that St. Pierre "is choosing to fight Nick", adding the following on Twitter:
@malkikawa
malki kawa last I checked "carlos is the harder fight." So I guess now he'll fight nick. Wasn't our choice and def not happy about it, BUT
FavoriteRetweet
Kawa followed up by saying the situation is what it is and that he was sure White would "make it worth his while" for Condit to not take the fight. But if he doesn't. what is Condit's recourse? He has no leverage.
But fear not! Condit will get a fight on that Super Bowl card against that "next guy". If he wins, he gets the next shot…unless someone else irritates St. Pierre and leapfrogs him again, I guess. At this point, I would assume Fitch or Jake Ellenberger would be Condit's opponent.
Real Talk
Listen, we all know what the deal is here. For a promotion that is being heavily questioned about its dropping pay-per-view buy rates, they need heavy hitters on the docket. St. Pierre vs. Diaz does just that. St. Pierre vs. Condit doesn't. So if you're White, simply say that.
Explain how even though it's sport, the game is still show business and you have to give the people what they want first while always keeping competitive fights in mind. But don't come out and say that Condit stepped aside and that GSP demanded Diaz instead. Condit is a competitor that got a crack at the biggest prize in his division. Remember the story of when Condit broke down in tears upon being told about being given the title opportunity? I do. You're telling me he simply said, "Sure…give Diaz a shot."? Hell, no. He was told, not given an option. To think otherwise is lunacy.
And If you're in the camp of thinking Condit didn't earn this shot to begin with, you're crazy. Aside from Jon Fitch, take Diaz out of this equation and there was no one else you could justify getting a crack at GSP. Food for thought: if Fitch had finished or decisioned Penn in a rematch Saturday, would he have leapfrogged Condit as well? Perhaps he just needed to call St. Pierre scared all along?
White needs to be careful about promising things, supporting those promises and then changing his mind. There are times I wish he would simply say that title shots are given on a 'what do we need' basis. It's been that way for a while, we all know it and have benefited from that attitude. Drop the pretense of rankings or that shots are earned. They are given and can be taken away based on simple business needs.
The fight promotion has been a shady place since the first time someone knew they could make money off it. Perhaps I'm too idealistic to think that word is bond these days, but myself and others took White at his word and you can see where that got us. It's not the first time it's happened and unfortunately, it probably won't be the last.
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That's fucking bullshit.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor to the USA Today/SBN Consensus MMA Rankings
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Oct 30, 2011 4:15 PM EDT reply actions
So true.
You can tell alot about a person just by reading their sig.
by RandyCouture'sDivorceLawyer on Oct 30, 2011 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
It is and it isn't.
I don’t know whether it was Condit and his management that decided to turn down the Koscheck fight, but he REALLY should’ve taken that fight once it came out GSP was injured.
Kos is always at the top of the division anyways, so Condit would likely have to fight him down the road, plus- Josh hadn’t been training for a fight and so if you’re going to fight that powerhouse wrestler with brick fists, there’s no better time than when he’s under prepared. It also would’ve given Carlos a chance to overcome the same wrestler/ kickboxer proto- type that Georges falls under.
And with the other title contender (Diaz) in action, he really needed to FIGHT to keep his spot as the #1 contender, in more ways than one.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Oct 30, 2011 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I thought of your comment the other day as soon as this went down.
Should’ve just fought Kos while he had the advantage of the camp on him. So it goes…I thought BJ would take two rounds before fading.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 30, 2011 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions
My fanboy heart convinced me BJ could take 2 rounds,
but realistically- it was a stretch. BJ isn’t getting any younger and has never had good endurance above 155.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Oct 31, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s true. This card and Carlos’s title shot would have been looking a lot better if that fight was booked. That said, my impression was that Dana was never really interested in going that route. Dana prob wanted to play it safe and make sure COndit was availbale for a title shot since there was no way of knowing that Diaz was going to come out looking so good. In retrospect I kinda doubt Carlos could have talked Dana into it even if Carlos had the foresight you did.
How can you possibly make it right after you do that to a person? I honestly doubt they are showering him with cash . Bastards.
so, who do you think he will be matched up with?
Your beliefs become your reality.
by Hardy's in your face on Oct 30, 2011 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions
It REALLY sucks for Condit if Dana & Co were the guys who nixed the Koscheck fight.
And to be honest, it’s hard for me to imagine that Condit would’ve turned down a fight with Josh, especially considering the camp he’d gone through.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Oct 31, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Me? Hate Diaz?
Never..
You can tell alot about a person just by reading their sig.
by RandyCouture'sDivorceLawyer on Oct 30, 2011 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Georges wanted it, Diaz deserves it. He is the #2 WW in the world after last night after all. You must be so proud of Nicknand all he has accomplished.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
by memitim on Oct 30, 2011 5:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Jon Fitch is the #2 WW in the world.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor to the USA Today/SBN Consensus MMA Rankings
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Oct 30, 2011 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
So, Nick just took apart the guy Fitch worked out a draw to and is the #1 contender for the title but Fitch is #2. Happy to see you are still sporting that complete lack of reality in your rankings.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
by memitim on Oct 30, 2011 5:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 4 recs
Jon Fitch doesn’t have losses to Joe Riggs, Diego Sanchez and Karo Parysian on his UFC resume. In addition, he’d beat Nick Diaz like a drum if that fight was (rightfully) made.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor to the USA Today/SBN Consensus MMA Rankings
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Oct 30, 2011 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
If he beat him it would have to be three rounds. And he wouldn’t beat him like a drum, he would beat him like a pillowcase filled with Jello never advancing from full guard. Jon Fitch needs to beat Jonny hendricks to even be in the picture. I’m also pretty sure Hendricks will beat him too because of the long layoff+Hendricks has good enough wrestling to make it a sloppy kick boxing match and Fitch doesn’t like to stand.
Does anyone really want to see Fitch vs GSP again anyway? If they booked Fitch/GSP II a lot of people would be bummed.
ahh Skeletor I shaved my legs for you tonight,
and if you see my cock I hope you go in fright.
ahh Skeletor you made me do some coke,
ahhh I'm up all night and its no joke.
by NEW-HAMPSHIRE on Oct 30, 2011 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd kill to see that fight again.
It was amazing, and fuck anyone that doesn’t want to see it.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor to the USA Today/SBN Consensus MMA Rankings
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Oct 30, 2011 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
It might have been amazing but that was because Fitch didn’t get knocked out. It was a brutal one-sided, non-competitive beating.
ahh Skeletor I shaved my legs for you tonight,
and if you see my cock I hope you go in fright.
ahh Skeletor you made me do some coke,
ahhh I'm up all night and its no joke.
by NEW-HAMPSHIRE on Oct 30, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Does it matter?
The fight was immensely entertaining. Fitch never stopped coming forward, never stopped believing he had a chance to win.
The only reason that Fitch isn’t in more exciting fights is that aside from GSP nobody else has the skillset to push Fitch to his limits. People can rag on Fitch all they want, but I can never hate on a man with that much heart.
by paythefighters on Oct 31, 2011 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Easily the best of Georges title defenses.
Maybe a lot of people never saw it, or have forgotten, but I gained a respect for Fitch in that fight that I can’t forget.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 30, 2011 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd love to see Jon turn purple again!
Jon has improved SO much from the UFC 87 beating.
LOL Tebow. Cam Newton looks streets ahead of this guy.
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
I don't know man
I’ve seen some pillowcases filled with Jello that have pretty sick guard passes.
"Anderson Silva is the best fighter in MMA today. If you don't enjoy watching him fight, you have no heart." - Fraser Coffeen
by CasualMMAFan on Oct 30, 2011 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So, you are going to use fights from years ago when Nick was a completely different fighter to defend your biased make believe rankings? You are beyond transparent and it’s great when moments like these come that illuminate your complete lack of objectivity or logic.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
by memitim on Oct 30, 2011 5:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
I thought transparency was a good thing. Diaz’s winning streak is comprised of largely unranked fighters. He’ll rise on my ballot as a result of beating BJ, but Jon Fitch is #2 until somebody beats him or GSP (thus moving him to 3rd behind GSP and whoever beat him).
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor to the USA Today/SBN Consensus MMA Rankings
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Oct 30, 2011 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Fitch is 1-0-1 in the last year
Diaz is 3-0 with two wins over top ten fighters.
There is a decent argument that he should be ranked above Fitch.
:p - orcus
Most of the time I am a rather quiet fellow, who likes to read about Philosophy, Mathematics and History, but like most people I also have a deep appreciation of sex and violence... - John Danaher
by Chris Hall on Oct 30, 2011 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Transparent in your biases even though logic dictates otherwise. Fitch just fought BJ and couldn’t beat him, some would argue he lost to him. Nick Diaz just did what no other fighter has ever done to BJ (Dana’s words, not mine) and is now facing GSP on the biggest card of the year. He’s the #2 WW in the world.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
by memitim on Oct 30, 2011 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Except that he's not.
GSP finished BJ Penn, so did Matt Hughes. Diaz was impressive last night, but it wasn’t the first time BJ’s been beat at 170, and it’s not enough for me to leapfrog him over Jon Fitch, who hasn’t lost a fight at the weight to anyone not named GSP since he started fighting in the UFC. He’s beaten fighters (Pierce, Alves x2) and is facing a fighter next (Hendricks) that I feel would beat Diaz. Nick’s sample size against top quality WW competition is too shallow over the last few years to justify putting him above Fitch.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor to the USA Today/SBN Consensus MMA Rankings
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Oct 30, 2011 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I actually agree with you, I think Fitch deserves the number 2 ranking
I think Diaz is top five, and I think he’s the most interesting fight for Georges right now though. I also think he’d beat Alves, and probably Pierce and Hendricks. All that isn’t important though.
You think he deserves to be ranked over Condit?
Read: Toblerone Jones
That’s a close call. Is Dong Hyun Kim a better win than BJ Penn at 170 in 2011? I’ll probably put Diaz a spot above Condit on my next ballot as a combination of inactivity and Condit now being without a scheduled bout. Though I guess I’d have put Diaz over Condit if they’d have just rescheduled GSP/Condit and he beat Penn like he did last night.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor to the USA Today/SBN Consensus MMA Rankings
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Oct 30, 2011 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Is Dong Hyun Kim a better win than BJ Penn at 170 in 2011?
Yes.
By such a huge amount it’s not even funny.
Read: Toblerone Jones
by Neil Manich on Oct 30, 2011 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
By that logic, Condit stays ranked above Diaz.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor to the USA Today/SBN Consensus MMA Rankings
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Oct 30, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry
I’m still a little hung over. I meant to say that a win over Bj is worth much much more than a win over Dong Hyun Kim. By a lot.
Read: Toblerone Jones
by Neil Manich on Oct 30, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
LOL I understood what you meant
even if Subo didn’t.
Learn JiuJitsu.
Don't believe the hyperbole, it's like a murder spree, get sniped verbally.
Hmmm. I saw it the other way.
BJ was a beast at 155 but in this little run at 170, he’s 1-1-1, only beating Matt Hughes because he’s old as dirt, and only drawing with Fitch because the meathead took two rounds to realize that BJ was wrestling him. And exposed his cardio late in the fight like everyone else does at 170. So yeah, beating Kim in 2011 is much more impressive to me than beating BJ in 2011 at welter.
Wait, what?
Subo- you rank people partly based on what fight they have scheduled next??
He is not on the board today in the rankings but hopefully the others who make up the consensus rankings have the sense to put him there. He has just been dominant. I know you think only wins in the UFC count but what we have seen is that top fighters from other strong US based orgs hang with top fighters in the UFC or have been in the UFC. Strikeforce and WEC prove that out. So to discount his impressive winning streak and his overall run since Gomi just because it wasn’t in the UFC is silly. Yes, Hughes and GSP have stopped Penn. Neither tenderized his face the way Nick did last night sending him to the hospital. And those two guys are arguably the best WW’s in the history of the sport. It’s crazy that you say guys like Alves or Pierce would beat him after what he has been doing. For a very long time you have looked at Nick Diaz, and his true ability, as manufactured hype. Well, guess what, it’s not. I know it is like talking to a mule, you view things thru a very small lens that doesn’t illustrate the whole picture.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
Jake Shields – the single best “top fighter from (an)other strong US based org” is 1-2 in the UFC and some would argue he should be 0-3. I just don’t think a streak that includes Marius Zaromskis, Frank Shamrock, Scott Smith, Fat Sakurai and KJ Noons is impressive enough to overcome Fitch’s remarkable UFC run/record.
In addition, I punish fighters that skip drug tests before title fights. I feel so sorry for Jay Hieron, both for never getting that fight and for getting screwed last night.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor to the USA Today/SBN Consensus MMA Rankings
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Oct 30, 2011 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
How is Donald Cerrone doing? Jose Aldo? Ben Henderson?
I know you don’t think the list Diaz has beaten is impressive, that is because of the myopic way you look at things.
And to bring up the Hieron thing is such bullshit. It was a random test that the CSAC said they weren’t going to do to Nick because of his legal use of marijuana. Stop beating that dead horse. It just shows your bias against Nick.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
He skipped a drug test and screwed Hieron out of a title shot. Nothing about the previous sentence is inaccurate.
I didn’t even bring up Thomas Denny.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor to the USA Today/SBN Consensus MMA Rankings
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Oct 30, 2011 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
You have very selective memory. CSAC was not going to test for weed since it was legal in Diaz’s case and then did a 180 and asked him to piss in a cup with almost no notice and they were testing for weed. What was he supposed to do? Take the test, knowing he was going to fail, and be suspended for a year because the CSAC is screwed up and changes the rules? C’mon this is old bullshit.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
Again, point out the inaccuracy in my characterization of the situation. Drug test? Skipped. Hieron? Screwed.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor to the USA Today/SBN Consensus MMA Rankings
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Oct 30, 2011 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Hieron screwed by the CSAC. Not Diaz. They were allowing Nick to use weed because he had a medical card and then changed on a dime. If Nick took the test or not the result would be the same for Hieron, only Nick would be suspended for a year. Once again, old bullshit and illustrates your bias against Diaz.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
All I hear is for it not being Nick Diaz’ fault for him shirking his responsibilities.
It would be nice for once to see him act like a man and not a spoiled child.
The North remembers...
Would you like Freys with that?
just thru observation
Ur very biased towards nick and anyone who is against him brings the wrath of god down upon them. Chill a lil, nick is an amazing fighter I don’t think anyone is saying he isn’t. They r just stating that they don’t think he should be above fitch because fitch has beaten a more impressive list as opposed to diaz(don’t attack me just saying what they think)
by benten20 on Oct 31, 2011 10:01 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You are misreading the situation. This is about Subo’s bias against Diaz.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
In the last two years Diaz has beaten three top ten ranked opponents (Zaromskis, Daley, and Penn).
Fitch has beaten one (Alves).
Just saying
by discoandherpes on Oct 30, 2011 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
To be fair, I’d say they have both beaten one a piece. Diaz beat Penn and Fitch beat Alves. Zaromskis and Daley were over their ratings in the first place.
by Empty Thoughts on Oct 30, 2011 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions
You really think Pierce could beat Diaz? I mean come. You must have zero respect for Diaz.
ahh Skeletor I shaved my legs for you tonight,
and if you see my cock I hope you go in fright.
ahh Skeletor you made me do some coke,
ahhh I'm up all night and its no joke.
by NEW-HAMPSHIRE on Oct 30, 2011 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Styles make fights, and Nick both isn’t huge for the weight class and isn’t a strong positional grappler.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor to the USA Today/SBN Consensus MMA Rankings
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Oct 30, 2011 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
You have a great point about Fitch.
But I think it kind of silly to be arguing about there rankings. Honestly they both deserve a number two spot…like you said fitch hasn’t lost to anyone except gsp in a fight where he showed he was truly tough but At the same time, even if u don’t like Diaz is that u have to take account of how he’s been winning.. Its one thing to just look at these two guys on paper and argue who deserves the ranking but you have to admit NO ONE has ever done that to Penn, he was buckled, he was swelling badly and I believe cut..as well as being thourputhly outboxed in and out of the pocket..I mean you have to admit that deserves a number two spot..nicks performances as of late have been crazy. I’m not a fitch fan but I respect his standing as an absolute top guy at 170 but I think he’s bumped to number three bc of just how impressive nick has looked and his unbeaten streak.
by bert44 on Oct 31, 2011 5:19 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Does no one remember the GSP/Penn 2 fight?
Yes, as a matter of fact someone has beaten BJ worse than Diaz did.
The North remembers...
Would you like Freys with that?
but Jon Fitch is #2 until somebody beats him or GSP
Only the #1 guy should get that kind of pronouncement. So, you can move up the rankings all the way up to #3 based on accomplishment, but the only way to get the #2 spot is to beat Jon Fitch. That doesn’t make much sense to me.
swan diving off the tongues of crippled giants
Why?
He shouldn’t remain permanently at #2 if others below have had a better run. The fact of the matter is, Diaz has beaten 2 top-10 guys in the last year, including dominating the highest ranked guy either have faced (aside from GSP), and that same guy took Fitch to a draw, winning 2 rounds.
Fitch on the other hand has beaten 2 top-10 guys in the last 4 years, and one of those was Paulo Thiago who gained his ranking solely by KO’ing Kos the kickboxer on short notice.
Diaz has beaten 16 of his last 17 opponents over the past 5 years, with the only loss a cut stoppage in a fight he was clearly winning – there is absolutely an argument that Diaz should be #2, and a damn good one.
If you were making top-5 rankings today with a clean piece of paper – that is giving no consideration to how long anyone has been ranked at a certain position – could you really look at their respective 3-year histories and say that Fitch unquestionably deserves to be #2?
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
Never send sheep to kill a wolf.
by The American Ronin on Nov 1, 2011 7:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Damn you're clutching at straws now
Talking about fights that are 5 years old. Let’s hope you never get mad at Fitch so we have to hear about that time he lost to Wilson Gouveia or something equally as irrelevant.
Read: Toblerone Jones
Fitch might be able to outhustle Nick in scrambles and win a narrow decision via takedowns/ top control
but there’s no way he beats him like a drum. Diaz is too active and Jon would be fighting not to get subbed/ swept the entire time.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Oct 30, 2011 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions
hey Subo, a few things..
1 – good to see you back, bro. hadn’t seen you round here in a bit.
2- true, Diaz has losses against those dudes, but it’s hard to argue he’s the same fighter as the guy that got beat by those dudes 5+ years ago.
3- Fitch is the #2WW in my book as well, and it’s a crying shame that the fact that his style is relatively unappealing to the majority of the MMA viewership is what is holding him back from another crack at GSP. that fight really does need to happen, it just won’t be sexy enough to sell PPV buyrates as needed [similar to one of the points highlighted in the article]. if anyone is really getting fucked here, it’s Fitch.
4- Condit did get bumped up after Diaz no-showed those pressers, so while it sucks for Carlos it is still not totally unreasonable for Diaz to get that shot he was to get in the first place.
"The Glen Rice scandal is way out of line w/ the GOP's values. They're interested in fucking black people by the millions, not one at a time"
by Victor Rodriguez on Oct 31, 2011 2:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Diaz gets eaten by wrestlers. Fitch’s style is taylor made to hump Diaz into defeat.
I'm gonna give you three seconds; exactly three-fucking-seconds to wipe that stupid looking grin off your face or I will gouge out your eyeballs and skull-fuck you!
This meme should probably die
he lost two fights to (at the time) very highly regarded wrestling-based fighters, more than 5 years ago. He has evolved as a fighter in that time. It’s true he hasn’t faced a lot of wrestlers, but there just isn’t enough evidence to suggest he gets “eaten” by anyone at this point.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Oct 30, 2011 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
besides, good look getting him down there in the first place.
fighters like Nick evolve and step their game up. he just hasn’t faced a high level wrestler in a while.
"The Glen Rice scandal is way out of line w/ the GOP's values. They're interested in fucking black people by the millions, not one at a time"
by Victor Rodriguez on Oct 31, 2011 2:18 AM EDT up reply actions
You cannot base rankings on just one common opponent
I agree that GSP-Diaz is the right call, but there’s no need to belittle Fitch’s accomplishments and standing.
by paythefighters on Oct 31, 2011 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions
u mad?
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Oct 30, 2011 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
He mad
:p - orcus
Most of the time I am a rather quiet fellow, who likes to read about Philosophy, Mathematics and History, but like most people I also have a deep appreciation of sex and violence... - John Danaher
Subo rage is the wind beneath my wings
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Oct 30, 2011 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
You and Burke, both
:p - orcus
Most of the time I am a rather quiet fellow, who likes to read about Philosophy, Mathematics and History, but like most people I also have a deep appreciation of sex and violence... - John Danaher
Subo has a boner for wrestlers and positional control
Which is why he actually scored Florian over Aldo.
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
If Subo could rank a wet blanket he would.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
by memitim on Oct 30, 2011 11:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
"wet blanket"
So Ben Askren?
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
by SSreporters on Oct 31, 2011 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Did you see his fight with Hieron? It was pretty good.
by Horselover Fat on Oct 31, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Malki Kawa is a hack
and everytime I hear him speak I think he is doing more harm than good to his cause.
Head conductor of the Charles Oliveira hype train.
by Stiff Jab on Oct 30, 2011 4:16 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
Malki hate is always an easy rec. I wouldn’t trust him to manage a Sunoco.
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by BVandDietPepsi on Oct 30, 2011 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions
i often wonder how lousy he’d be as a pimp.
"The Glen Rice scandal is way out of line w/ the GOP's values. They're interested in fucking black people by the millions, not one at a time"
by Victor Rodriguez on Oct 31, 2011 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Condit was not Jobbed
He was given the shot due to being available and a worthy replacement, nothing more. Nick was promised a lot more than Condit was to begin with.
Twitter @i_c_u_hater
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by Thats It For you! on Oct 30, 2011 4:21 PM EDT reply actions
Fitch
And to bring up what would have happened if Fitch had beaten Penn, instead of Diaz, just isn’t the same. GSP has already beaten Fitch, he’s not faced Diaz. Condit would have been the next challenger, had he beat Penn, if the original plan had held. So he’s again, one fight away. Unless Diaz flakes again and Condit will be on the card to step up again.
What screams date rapist more: An Affliction t-shirt or a guy on the corner screaming, "I'm a date rapist!"
by FragglesHateKos on Oct 30, 2011 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
"UFC" is not a sport, it's a business
And the best decision for the business is for GSP Vs Diaz to happen while there’s massive amounts of interest in it.
not a sport?
what about those guys that ‘train UFC’?
"The Glen Rice scandal is way out of line w/ the GOP's values. They're interested in fucking black people by the millions, not one at a time"
by Victor Rodriguez on Oct 31, 2011 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Josh, didn’t you hear what Dana said about this? They had a good conversation, no one was forced to do anything…
I am free because I choose to be so-Me
And waht does that mean?
If your boss tells you your out, then your out! I’m sure he got compensated.
And we should believe every word out of a fight promoter's mouth?
Bloody Elbow Grappling Editor.
Follow me on Twitter @KJGould
Like me on Facebook
Yeah, this fight was always going to get made if Nick looked good,
and that’s just the way it is. Dana’s comments were, of course, disingenuous. I’m sure Carlos had zero choice in the matter, and that sucks for him. But the UFC needs some big PPV’s, and I can’t blame them for this. Business as usual. If GSP was really the mover in this, then I guess Carlos should take it out on him when he gets the chance. I’ll definitely be rooting for him.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 30, 2011 4:35 PM EDT reply actions
condit could have fought kos and looked better than diaz looked, he didnt so he deserves to be passed over.
Eh, I kind of agree he should've taken the fight,
but as I said, this was always going to happen if Nick destroyed BJ and called out the champ. If Condit had taken the fight and knocked Kos out with a flying knee, I’m still pretty convinced Nick would’ve gotten the fight just on pure attitude and marketability. I love Carlos, but he’s just too soft spoken and chill for his own good sometimes.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 31, 2011 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Condit big time screwed
How was Condit not screwed to those who think he wasn’t? He was supposed to fight BJ Penn…he gets exchanged for Diaz who acted badly and now is getting leapfrogged because Diaz was a dick again. He should definitely get good pay for this considering I think he would’ve beat Penn as well and got $75k FOTN bonus had he stayed in the original bout. You better pay this man!
Yeah that I can agree with.
Basically got screwed out of 6 months of paydays because Georges got hurt and then demanded the Diaz fight.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 30, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, Diaz was a dick, a dick that put on the fight of the night and put away a legend so bad the dude retired. it’s unfortunate for Condit, but this was the fight fans wanted to see from the jump.
"The Glen Rice scandal is way out of line w/ the GOP's values. They're interested in fucking black people by the millions, not one at a time"
by Victor Rodriguez on Oct 31, 2011 2:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Sometimes these things happen in MMA.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
by memitim on Oct 30, 2011 4:38 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Condit only got the shot becasue they booted Nick
and I don’t think he should be that surprised they’re giving it to Nick again. That’s the big money fight, and the UFC needs some serious PPV sales.
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While I agree with the premise of the article in that Dana White should not pretend like things are finalized and promised only to then take them back, I still think it’s absolutely the right decision to give it to Diaz now and not Condit. Sucks for Condit, but whatever, he only got it because of Diaz missed beauty pageant to begin with. This is isn’t the first time someone gets screwed a little like that, and it won’t be the last. I definitely think DFW and his crew should stop “promising” title shots all the time, when it’s clear they are so often not coming through on it. It’s dishonest and not entirely fair to the fighters. They should just admit that there’s always a few options and they’re likely to pick someone based on momentum and timing.
No one told Condit to sit and wait
He was silly to believe Dana White and wait for a shot at the title. Besides, he was just piggybacking off of Nicks title shot, and Nick EARNED that shot back as of last night. Suck it.
You can tell alot about a person just by reading their sig.
by RandyCouture'sDivorceLawyer on Oct 30, 2011 4:43 PM EDT reply actions
LOL at anyone thinking Condit was the real number 1 contender.
First off I dont like Diaz, in fact I hope GSP destroys him, so i’m no Diaz stan but he was the real number 1 contender.
Condit got his ass beat by a prospect in ROry and came back and showed heart and won the fight, first the fight shouldnt have been stopped and it would have been a draw or a decision win for Rory, Condit shouldnt have won that fight. He did and lets move on, Hardy and Stun Gun?
So thats earning the title shot?
Diaz won like 10 in a row, SF WW champ, defended the belt, he was the real contender for GSP and he had the shot, Condit slide into the shit, basically a gifted shot and GSP got hurt. Diaz smashed BJ, he is the real contender.
Yes if you take Fitch and Diaz out then Condit is the next guy, except why do you take Fitch and Diaz out? they are in teh div arent they? They are in the UFC arent they? Diaz is ready to go isnt he?
Anyone thinking COndit got jobbed is a fool, Diaz was and still is the number 1 WW contender in the sport, its his shot, its been his from the day he signed with the UFC.
so diazes run of shamrock (old man), zaromskis (mediocre), noons (lw), cyborg (career .500 fighter) and daley is more impressive then condit’s ufc run? almost only counts in horsheshoes and hand grenades- rory macdonald- a prospect with elite upside- fought a great fight but lost fair and square. I buy that diaz is the bigger fight promtionally wise, but to act like diaz{s’ resume over the past few years is is more impressive than condit’s is a breathtakingly moronic statement. beating ufc-caliber guys in the, you know, ufc means a bit more than the caliber of opponent that nick’s been fighting for the last 4 years. daley and penn are 2 great wins, but don’t shit on what condit’s done.
"You never know. I don't know. You know?" -Nick Diaz
by John Danaher's Hair on Oct 30, 2011 5:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 6 recs
Thanks for handling that.
Nick punched his ticket last night, and I’m on board, but it doesn’t take away from Carlos’ whose lost one fight since 2006, and stopped damn near every one of them.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 30, 2011 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Nick definitely has the stronger claim with the win of Penn
Still sucks for Condit, as he lost his title shot through no fault of his own. Hopefully the rumors that he was compensated for stepping back are true. And I’m sue he’ll get a big match coming out of this.
:p - orcus
Most of the time I am a rather quiet fellow, who likes to read about Philosophy, Mathematics and History, but like most people I also have a deep appreciation of sex and violence... - John Danaher
Yep, the Penn victory legitimizes the whole thing,
but until last night, Carlos had a lot better recent record/competition IMO.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 30, 2011 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Diaz was the SF WW champ, had won how many fights in a row?
Condit beat Hardy and Stun GUn and Rory, beating Daley is a bigger win then any of them, Rory is still young, in time he could be a top WW.
Beating Daley, being the SF WW champ and the top guy GSP hasnt fought, I’d say that makes you a more legit contender then Condit.
The SF WW belt was worth no more than the WEC belt.
So forget that argument. Daley isn’t as good a win as Stun Gun or Rory, he’s a one dimensional fighter, though a good one. You’re conveniently leaving out Nick’s wins over Shamrock, Scott Smith, Marius, Santos, Noons Thomas Denny etc. Carlos has consistently fought much better competition, and apart from a loss to Kampmann, which was a draw to anyone’s eyes, at worst, had an even longer run than Nick, and has stopped 25 of his 26 wins. Beating BJ Penn made this all a moot point, but people running around shitting on Condit like Nick was always more deserving of the shot is ridiculous.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 30, 2011 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Thomas Denny is the only fighter to completely lose on Bully Beatdown
I’m not sure that helps your argument :p
:p - orcus
Most of the time I am a rather quiet fellow, who likes to read about Philosophy, Mathematics and History, but like most people I also have a deep appreciation of sex and violence... - John Danaher
by Chris Hall on Oct 30, 2011 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
LOL
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 30, 2011 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Who?
He wasnt fighting anyone good in the WEC, lets be real about that.
Rory a better win then Daley? LOL. Rory is a great prospect but he was a prospect in his UFC debut, that isnt a bigger win then Daley. And its not like Diaz took Daley down, he stood with him, and knocked him out.
Nobody is shitting on Condit, why do you keep saying that? EVERYONE is saying Diaz is more deserving, thats not shitting on Condit its saying the truth, Diaz deserves the shot more then Condit.
Shit, had that Diaz shit not happened and say Diaz got hurt, GSP needs a fight, everyone wouldnt jump and say Condit, some would but it would be a mix of Fitch, Condit and Jake E.
Before Diaz fight was made official their was only one person everyone was calling for GSP to fight, his name is Nick Diaz.
Paul Daley is the entirety of your argument, no more needs be said.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 30, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
And EVERYONE wasn't saying Nick was more deserving,
until last night, and now I can agree with them. Saying Nick was far more deserving before that is ridiculous.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 30, 2011 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
"than"
Please upgrade your grammar to understand when to use “than” and when to use “then.” Thank you!
This should help
:p - orcus
Most of the time I am a rather quiet fellow, who likes to read about Philosophy, Mathematics and History, but like most people I also have a deep appreciation of sex and violence... - John Danaher
by Chris Hall on Oct 30, 2011 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
Hillarious
Sending this to my English Teacher friend, she might even post this in her classroom
When you saw only one set of footprints, it was Herb Dean who carried you -- Mike Fagan
by hardlyworking on Oct 31, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Just trying to help you elevate yourself.
My brother has a character in World of Warcraft who belongs to a guild called, “The Grammer Police.” The hilarity of the incorrect spelling of “grammar” is what makes it so damn good. By learning proper grammar, you can be “in” on the joke, CAC27. You are welcome.
Correction
It is incorrect to use a comma after “guild called” in the comment above.
Yours faithfully,
“The Grammer Police”
by Arca MMA on Oct 31, 2011 3:46 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not shitting on what Condits done but Diaz was on a winning streak, was the number 2 mma org’s WW champ, beat a top WW in Daley, now he just smashed BJ.
Anyone trying to make a case that Condit is the rightful contender is a moron, flat out. Its not putting Condit down, he is a good fighter but he isnt the real number 1 contender, Diaz is.
Diaz is the bigger, better fight and he is more deserving. With that said I hope GSP destroys him.
Daley a top WW? He beat Kampmann, yeah, but that was it. Daley got owned by Kos, was never even to contending for a title, has the odd knockout and the odd sub-par performance. Beating Daley only meant that he beat a guy who competed in the UFC and beat mostly mediocre guys while he was there (besides Kampmann). Okay smashing BJ is legit, and in many cases would deserve a title shot, but he still needs to have accomplished something beforehand, and Nick had accomplished nothing other than beat guys that weren’t even close to the top 20.
Not only this, but Dana stating his word that Condit was in before the fight, and then completely flipping that after the fight. Condit was completely jobbed, and you stating that others are morons for feeling he has a right to the title belligerence at levels scarcely recognized. You’re obviously a Diaz fan or whatever, but don’t insult everyone’s intelligence with your weak reasoning. Condit has faced and beaten nothing but tough UFC veterens and top prospects. Diaz, aside from Penn, has accomplished nothing other than drawing attention to himself through acting like a total D-bag.
Full disclosure, I like Nate.
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by Dooda on Oct 30, 2011 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Daley was a top 10 fighter when Nick beat him
:p - orcus
Most of the time I am a rather quiet fellow, who likes to read about Philosophy, Mathematics and History, but like most people I also have a deep appreciation of sex and violence... - John Danaher
So was Dan Hardy when Carlos starched him.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 30, 2011 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I dont know about that.
Maybe he was back of the top 10 but most thought Hardy wasnt good when he fought GSP, that he was one of the weakest fighters to contend for a title, after losing to GSP I dont think many considered him a top fighter. in the rankings he might have been Daley is, was the better fighter and the bigger win.
Wasn't everyone saying he was a top fighter for not tapping?
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take." - Wayne Gretzky - Michael Scott
by Sugel Mendoza on Oct 30, 2011 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
He was,
and you’re right about the rest of it. But no one was all that high on Paul either. Yeah, he’s a good striker with one punch knockout power, but he’s always been inconsistent and can’t deal with good grapplers, or anyone who doesn’t wilt at his onslaught in the first round. Again, Nick won his shot fair and square last night, and apparently it’s just meant to be. I just can’t agree that Carlos wasn’t more impressive in the last year or two, based on strength of opposition. It’s easy to write off Hardy, but Kim is a beast, and exactly the kind of fighter guys like Carlos and Nick should struggle with, same with MacDonald. Yet Carlos couldn’t be held down, and he knocked them both unconscious, and over the course of his career has been every bit the the finisher Nick has. As just a fight (ignoring the drama implications of Jones/Evans for example), I want to see no fight more than Nick vs. Carlos. I respect them both a ton.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 30, 2011 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions
People were higher on Paul cause of his striking and power, he has more power then Hardy but yes his weakness is grappling, GSP would have easily dominated him if they fought.
But Daley seems to be getting better with his wrestling, even in the Kos fight if I remember correctly he did stuff some shots from Kos, he was taken down in teh fight but I think he did stuff some of them.
he lost to Tyron but he showed improved takedown defense in that fight as well, he is getting better with his tdd and he is a good striker with power.
In his fight before Diaz, Daley was outwrestled by Jorge Masvidal. Like I said, Daley and Penn are 2 great wins, but you are shitting on Condit by saying that anyone who thinks that he has a better claim as #1 contender is a moron. Obviously from the debate, it’s not such an outlandish thought. also there’s no need to act like a jerk on here- just make your case and have some good spirited debate, but your tone is extremely dickish, especially for someone who joined 3 days ago. just being honest.
"You never know. I don't know. You know?" -Nick Diaz
by John Danaher's Hair on Oct 31, 2011 12:19 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Wasnt the Kos/Daley fight for a number 1 contender spot and a coaching gig on TUF?
So saying, “was never even to contending for a title”, I assume you mean was never close to even contending for a title is bullshit, he was one fight away from a title shot.
Did you see me say I hope GSP smashes him? I’m not a Diaz fan, I love the way he fights but as a person I cant stand him, I hope GSP breaks his face when they fight so saying I’m a DIaz fan is complete bullshit.
Well then what’s your excuse for being so disillusioned?
What I meant to say was that Daley never even contended for a title. I admit he was close in terms of he would’ve been there, but he didn’t really come close did he? There are a lot of top Welters, Daley ain’t one of them, and he wasn’t at the time Diaz beat him either. He’s a terrible match up for guys with poor standup defense and no wrestling. Other than that Daley is a little better than average, and never really was “top”, but that depends on how you define “top” I guess.
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Diaz gets bonus points
For beating Daley on the feet instead of with ground game. Daley might have been top 3-5 on striking in the division, at the time
ANd who awards these bonus points?
The strange voice in your head? There’s no such thing as “he won it this way”, it’s “He won, or he lost.” Maybe there’s “He dominated, or he barely squeeked by”, but there’s no such thing as beating a guy in a certain way that makes you a more legit contender.
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They were on equal ground before last nite
And anyone saying Condit, who was scheduled to fight for the title last night, isn’t getting screwed here, is a moron, flatout. It is putting you down for being completely unreasonable.
:p - orcus
Most of the time I am a rather quiet fellow, who likes to read about Philosophy, Mathematics and History, but like most people I also have a deep appreciation of sex and violence... - John Danaher
Sure he's getting screwed
But mainly because GSP getting hurt fucked him over and he missed out on two big fights. That being said, getting past over here isn’t unreasonable. Nick is a bigger fight right now and realistically Condit needed one big fight to put him over the edge anyways.
Read: Toblerone Jones
I agree
I was not at all surprised about the decision, and wish we had a vid of GSP’s conversation with Dana after the event. And I agree about Condit, much like Diaz last nite, a win over Penn would have put him in perfect line for title contention.
:p - orcus
Most of the time I am a rather quiet fellow, who likes to read about Philosophy, Mathematics and History, but like most people I also have a deep appreciation of sex and violence... - John Danaher
Condit and other fighters should never assume anything Dana says is locked in
He should have made all his decisions assuming that an impressive win for diaz means Diaz gets the title shot. Hence, he should not have waited to fight gsp. Elementary reasoning really
He isnt getting screwed cause he wasnt ever really the number 1 contender.
yes it sucks for him, had GSP not gotten hurt he would have fought and lost to GSP last night and this wouldnt be an issue but shit happens, it sucks for him but he isnt getting screwed out of his title shot cause he wsa never really the top contender.
Yes, Jon Fitch is the #1 contender.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 30, 2011 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
This
I love how people ignore the most recent common opponent between the two fighters in this discussion. Also, you don’t fight for a title off a draw.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Oct 30, 2011 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, fair enough.
I just hated that decision.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 30, 2011 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Another way to look at it is that Condit didnt have much of a cjoice, and Dana said he agreed to step aside as a way of respecting Carlos and makibg him appear gracious. Instead Malki erases all that.
by TLow on Oct 30, 2011 4:44 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 9 recs
Exactly, so now he basically just called out Dana for being a liar, smart move.
And its not like COndit was really the deserving contender, he filled in cause the UFC thought Diaz was gonna go nuts and not show up. They punished him, GSP got hurt, Diaz showed up, promoted the fight, did what he had to do to show Dana he is on board, he smashed BJ, he is the guy everyone wants to see GSP fight, he is the real number 1 contender, he is the guy GSP was gonna fight and wants to fight, its the right move.
Condit was never the real number 1 contender anyway.
Settle down.
He was as worthy as Nick was, and there’s no question about it. Last night erased that, and I’m fine with the switch, but you don’t need to run down Condit like a fool.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 30, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
but myself and others took White at his word and you can see where that got us. It’s not the first time it’s happened and unfortunately, it probably won’t be the last.
Damn that sucks for you. I hope you figure out how to understand when you’re hearing promotional hype and when you’re not. I’ll give you a hint… if a promoter is talking, and a microphone is turned on, the words coming out of their mouth are promotional.
Good luck in your ongoing efforts. We’re all pulling for you.
Getting bent out of shape over a fight promoter lying is like getting upset that a hooker won't kiss you. It betrays a deep lack of understanding of the nature of the profession.
by Stanlee on Oct 30, 2011 4:46 PM EDT reply actions 9 recs
I wanted Condit to get the fight...
But it was never his fight. I can’t stand Nick Diaz but to say Condit deserves the shot over Nick because Nick kissed a few press events doesn’t work. Obviously they didn’t want Condit in the title fight to begin with otherwise Nick never would have gotten it first to begin with. The UFC will take care of Condit, its not like they won’t hook him up, that’s for sure. But he hadn’t earned the title rght and got it on a technicality…so for them to take OT away is Shitty, but fair. He will get his shot, they army giving him the Fitch treatment.
by MBTitleist on Oct 30, 2011 4:48 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Condit will not make it to that title shot..
According to Dana, they’ll give him an opponent on the same card. The only logical fights for him are vs Koscheck/Fitch/Ellenberger 2, all of which are terrible match ups for him that he would probably lose
Fitch is the only one of the three that Carlos can't handle.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 30, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m assuming that Condit is going to make serious bank on his next fight. Unfortunately, if he gets Fitch, and then loses like most other exciting fighters do to, he could become the next Rich Franklin. He’ll get undying loyalty from Dana, and he’ll have a long and exciting career, and he’ll probably never get his title shot because of this moment. It’s sort of sad, but I’m happy that at least I think Condit is going to get serious bank for his problems.
Really well-written btw. When a guy comes out right be fore a fight, gives his word on something, and then completely backtracks because of business, is shady and shows a mans’ colours. Which is fine but don’t think we’re so stupid as to believe that Condit is stepping aside.
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http://www.groggybikini.com
Exactly
Carlos was both the beneficiary and victim of circumstance. He gets the shot due to Nick’s no showing, BUT the St. Pierre injury threw everything out of order. If Georges does not get hurt, all of this is moot. I called bullshit the very second Dana said Carlos had agreed to step aside. Even if he did agree, I doubt he felt he had a choice. During the post-fight someone asked Dana what happens if Carlos loses his next fight to which White replied “That would suck.”
I walk across the dead train yard, remembering who we are.
Heh,
Yeah, it’s GSP’s fault that Condit got screwed.
Just set him up with a winnable fight
No Fitch, Kos, or Ellenberger. Then watch him win and reward him for stepping up in the first place.
OR
Give him Fitch or Kos and hope he loses so everybody can say “See, he wasn’t worthy anyway so fuck him”
"What the ancients called a clever fighter is one who not only wins, but excels in winning with ease."
Give him Fitch
call it the screwed from GSP bowl. but have both be ready to main event in case either or both pull out
I’ve been overwhelmed and I’ve been underwhelmed. Can I ever just be whelmed?
It's the right move.
Diaz is just as qualified as Condit for the title shot. It makes more money.
The only loser here is Condit and I absolutely feel for him. But every pro sport is also a business. If you think money doesn’t influence other sports, you are an idiot. Even in the NFL, they are altering rules to make the game more exciting and more pass friendly. Why? It’s good business.
I hate people who expect promotors to be anything but promoters.
Pure DW BS Again
Diaz had the shot and blew it
Condit had the shot period, stepped up man
Diaz beats littller Penn
good for him
but to leapfrog him back to a shot?
Why not give him Fitch?
2 straight wins over top line guys
would raise the gate by miles
This kind of crap is bushleague at the best
Make goofy Diaz really earn his shot
and one win doesn’t do that.
What the hell did COndit do to earn the shot?
Why did he leapfrog Diaz? ONly cause the UFC was scared Diaz wasnt gonna show up to promote the fight, so he didnt earn a shot, he backdoored his way into it, so Diaz was the rightful contender since they made the fight in June or whatever, he beat BJ, he is the real number 1 contender.
Condit didnt do anything to deserve the shot in the first place, he was simply another guy on the card who they could put in with GSP, they werent gonna do that with BJ. Fitch is more deserving of the title shot then Condit is in all honesty.
If Condit can beat Fitch or Kos then he would deserve to get a title shot, he didnt deserve the title shot vs GSP. he only got it cause Diaz is a headcase, now Diaz seems to know what he has to do and he smashed BJ, he should get the shot.
Is this really an issue?
I’m surprised someone is so passionate about this. I really could care less.
Diaz is an enthralling character. They kicked him out to put Condit in, and then did the same thing a second time because Diaz really earned it, which is more than you can say about Condit.
If you care deeply that Diaz missed a press conference or whatever, I don’t know what to say because, once again, I could care less. I like Diaz and laughed like crazy at that press conference. I look forward to more.
I can understand why the UFC did what they did, at the time everyone was saying Diaz ran away from Gracie and couldnt be found, it seemed like they couldnt trust Diaz to do what he had to do.
They didnt want to risk him breaking down and not showing up the week of the fight so I understood why they did it but now he was punished, showed up to fight BJ, did what he had to do and smashed BJ.
"Anderson Silva Money, here I come!!!"
"No man dies for what he knows to be true. Men die for what they want to be true, for what some terror in their hearts tells them is not true."
I've seen that pic before
but I just noticed the bottle of Formula 420 on the shelf in the background. lol
It's a bummer for Condit
who I really like, but this is a much more appealing fight, and GSP-Diaz never should have gotten canceled in the first place.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
Condit is probably getting a nice bit of cheddar on the side for this
Besides he didn’t earn the shot anyway, it was given to him after Nick Diaz screwed up. I wasn’t going to complain about him fighting for the title but imo he is one fight away from getting it.
Twitter @MaZZM
http://www.mazzznet.com/
All it shows is that Dana is no better or more ethical than Bob Arum, Don King, or any of the myriad hucksters who have sold a load of bullshit to the public and acted like the interests of the fighters were of paramount concern. And MMA fighters today are no smarter than the thousands and thousands of boxers and MMA guys of the past when it comes to understanding that a verbal promise isn’t worth the paper it’s written on.
.....
When is someone going to lay some of the responsibility of this change on GSP? He went to Dana and asked to pass over Condit in favor of a fight with Diaz. He is as complicit in all of this as anyone. GSP screwed Condit just as much as Dana did.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
Yeah I did do this already.
Though I haven’t heard anything from GSP yet to confirm all that. A little messed up to do that to a step-teammate:) You know Dana wanted to do this though, whether Georges pushed him or not.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 30, 2011 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
No question. Dana knows how huge this fight will be and now that Nick paid whoever that guy is $100k to make sure he is where he is supposed to be all should be well. But, Georges, whether he really is pissed or not, knows the opportunity this is and it’s much better than facing Condit.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
by memitim on Oct 30, 2011 7:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I believe he is actually quite pissed off.
Diaz blows off the press conferences, which are no more burdensome to his training than they are to Georges, gets tossed for Carlos, then Georges gets hurt and the whole thing is blown up, and now he’s got this punk who caused all this calling him a motherfucking coward:) Pretty awesome.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 30, 2011 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Not only can I not wait for the fight. I can’t wait for the weigh in. Nick likes BJ and Daley and he was ready to take their head off at the weigh ins. They are going to have to get an army of security to keep them apart.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
by memitim on Oct 30, 2011 11:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
True that, homie.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 30, 2011 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions
It does look bad for GSP to say that Carlos is a more difficult challenge than Nick then the next day say that he wants Diaz in his next fight. However, the blame for the decision rests with the person that made it and that’s Dana (presumably).
Your beliefs become your reality.
by Hardy's in your face on Oct 30, 2011 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Food for thought: if Fitch had finished or decisioned Penn in a rematch Saturday, would he have leapfrogged Condit as well? Perhaps he just needed to call St. Pierre scared all along?
Perhaps he just needed to beat BJ in the first place.
Learn JiuJitsu.
Don't believe the hyperbole, it's like a murder spree, get sniped verbally.
by RolloTomasi on Oct 30, 2011 7:26 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Hey
How bout that sig bet?
:p - orcus
Most of the time I am a rather quiet fellow, who likes to read about Philosophy, Mathematics and History, but like most people I also have a deep appreciation of sex and violence... - John Danaher
I don't do sig bets
ever
Learn JiuJitsu.
Don't believe the hyperbole, it's like a murder spree, get sniped verbally.
Weaksauce
:p - orcus
Most of the time I am a rather quiet fellow, who likes to read about Philosophy, Mathematics and History, but like most people I also have a deep appreciation of sex and violence... - John Danaher
ouch
first Diaz takes his Penn fight now hes taking his title shot. Condit is the man and I believe he could beat Diaz and GSP. sucks to see him getting the shaft
Follow me @Elite_Stone for accurate fight predictions. Get that money meng!
Haha
That is right up there with Brock’s Frank Mur and Cain Velas-kwez
I walk across the dead train yard, remembering who we are.
Nick probably deserves the shot form a sports perspective.
And none of us actually know what the deal was. I think it’s silly to speculate about what happened when we don’t know. And I think it’s shitty to portray GSP like he is the bad guy here.
Meh...
I like Condit and can barely stand Diaz, but Condit didn’t get jobbed out of anything. he was a replacement fighter for a guy who has apparently redeemed himself in Dana’s eyes and with the injury to GSP, it is what it is.
My only hope is they hook Condit up in some way for his willingness to step up.
"Okay, Lindsay, are you forgetting that I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist."
Listen to the fans
Stop complaining. The fans want to see Diaz vs GSP, and white is listening to the fans. It dosn’t matter if it’s “unjust” or “not according to the rankings” if it’s what the fans want. This isn’t about it “being a business either”. I’m sorry about the overuse of quotations but anyone who dosn’t think Diaz vs GSP is the fight everyone wants to see, your blind.
by TheMushroomWizard on Oct 30, 2011 7:47 PM EDT reply actions
How does one add a "sig line?"
Seriously. I have funny and insightful shit to add to my posts! Just like you! Well, maybe not you …
"Edit Profile" and fill out the part that says "Signature"
if only that shit was labeled…
"Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back." -Swearengen
by AwkwardwithwordmakingisGoldberg,huhJoe on Oct 30, 2011 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Why do people want Condit to get the shot so bad?
Forget who deserves it, Diaz deserves it more but forget that.
all I keep seeing is article after article on this site, other sites about how the UFC has fallen off, how PPV sales are down, how Matt Bishop on bloodyelbow radio says he cant get up for fights now, how mma is missing something, missing that big fight.
Here it is yet people want Condit to fight GSp instead cause Diaz fucked up and Condit was fighting on the same card, BJ already lost to GSP twice so he was the obvious choice to fill in. Thats the only reason he got the shot in the first place, Diaz should have gotten it in the first place and after last night I dont see how anyone can say different yet you see people bitching about it.
This is a big fight but people want Condit instead.
What did I say????????????
I knew he would get screwed.
Fitch beat diaz like a drum,yeah that’s pretty ridiculous. I think what you meant is wrestle hump him. Simple diaz, conduit, fitch are the three contenders. On recent form diaz has the higher level and more impressive wins. His unpredictable, exciting, always comes to fight and has a serious dislike for gsp,its pretty much a no brainer with epic trash talk and huge ppv numbers.
by frandub on Oct 30, 2011 9:02 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I love Condit
But he does not deserve a title shot by beating Hardy and Stun Gun.
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
Ellenberger
… should have had the title shot first anyway. He got jobbed when they gave that decision to Condit. Condit would be one of GSP’s easiest title defenses.
I hope Jake Ellenberger gets moved right on up and gets the shot he deserves.
Frstration awaits you. Carlos has some heavy hands and mad skills.
Your beliefs become your reality.
by Hardy's in your face on Oct 30, 2011 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Who didn't see this coming?
I'm gonna give you three seconds; exactly three-fucking-seconds to wipe that stupid looking grin off your face or I will gouge out your eyeballs and skull-fuck you!
I hope GSP and Fitch lose their #1 and #2 crowns. The welterweight division needs to be stirred up a little. I’m tired of watching these guys grind out decisions. With any luck, theyll go on losing streaks and just become stepping stones for more exciting fighters. War Diaz And Condit making it happen.
by Juda_Ben_Heard on Oct 31, 2011 2:24 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Promises aside, Diaz is the right pick. I think that their records are more or less comparable—Condit has lost only one fight in the last four years, with a couple of shaky performances, and the same could be said for Diaz. Condit’s UFC victories have gotten more and more emphatic each time out, while Diaz has added an appreciable amount of sizzle to his resume thanks to the Penn win. The tie-breaker is that Diaz is a more well-known commodity with a title behind him. So there you go.
Condit can be given a favorable, high-profile match in the mean time. Supposing he wins this week, Thiago Alves would be an excellent choice. He’s fighting only a week after 137, so it’s quite possible that he could be ready in time for GSP/Diaz.
"You son of a bitch, give me my plunger back."
- welterweight contender Josh Koscheck
Alternatively...
Anthony Johnson or a rematch with Jake Shields
"You son of a bitch, give me my plunger back."
- welterweight contender Josh Koscheck
Reading through the comments above, I have noticed that several people have stated that Condit has likely been rewarded for “agreeing” to step aside. Has any information been revealed to confirm that? I doubt his reward was/will be little more than the meaningless “in the mix” status that DW likes to give to fighters.
I walk across the dead train yard, remembering who we are.
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