Judo Chop: The UFC's Nick Pace and the No Arm Triangle or 'Pace Choke'
We kind of took the Christmas holidays off as far as Judo Chops go. Apologies.
We've got three fights to get through before we get to UFC 125 so I better get cracking.
Today's featured move is either an innovative bit of jiu jitsu wizardry or a technically questionable move that would only work against fairly inexperienced grapplers.
Nick Pace choked out Nick Campuzano on the undercard of the The Ultimate Fighter 12 Finale at 4:33 of the third round with a submission previously unseen in MMA. It or moves like have been called a no arm triangle, the no gi rubber guillotine, the invisible collar, the leg brabo, the Ninja choke, the Pilory Choke and now the Pace choke.
Donald Cerrone tried something very similar (video around 2:20 of the 2nd round) against Jamie Varner at WEC 38 in the second round. There are instances of the hold being used successfully in grappling competition by one Karl Nemeth. We'll look at the latter in the full entry.
After the fight Pace said he improvised the choke but it's hard to believe he had never tried the move in practice.
It's a hold that Pace pulled from the Rubber Guard -- the foundation of Eddie Bravo's controversial 10th Planet Jiu Jitsu system. Score another one for Bravo and the rubber guard.
Many grappling traditionalists heap scorn on Bravo's style and the Pace choke isn't going to change their minds. One of my theories is that in combat novelty is inherently advantageous. So every move shouldn't be judged against every other move as if everyone will be fighting based on equal knowledge. I think it will be increasingly to the advantage of top level Mixed Martial Artists to have a set of trick plays in their deck. The Pace Choke is certainly that.
I pulled in K.J. Gould of Cage Side Seats to help me research the move and Patrick Tenney, aka Above the Fire breaks it down and discusses the pros and cons in the full entry. We'll also watch some videos from some 10th Planet JJ grapplers (Bravo students) and others who have discovered the hold.
Gif by Caposa via the UG.
Here's Patrick Tenney:
I’d like to first start off by saying that this is not a technique I would recommend, nor is it something that will be more than a 1-100 shot; if there’s one minute left in a fight, you’re getting your ass handed to you and you find yourself in this position… by all means go for it; but honestly what we’re looking at here is more of a failure of fundamentals by Campuzano rather than a triumph of superior technique by Pace.
Campuzano dives into Pace's guard and starts his first mistake by diving into what looks to be the start of a low guard pass but he leaves the opportunity for a triangle , Campuzano starts to correct his error by keeping his arms in tight and passing Pace's left leg through and out so he can hit side control (kind of ignoring Pace's right leg which has lock down over the back of his head (Will believes he is safe because he's essentially gotten into a low pass and prevented Pace from being able to figure four lock the legs and execute a proper triangle.
Pace crushes his leg down tight over Campuzano's neck, Campuzano tries at first to shrug and pass to that side I believe, but it looks like he gets stuck inside of Pace's hips (can't be sure what exactly has happened here) Instead of continuing his pass and moving around the left side of Pace, Campuzano stays put in a broken down posture without his chin tucked tightly; Pace is able to get under the chin with his right arm and dig through so he can undergrab his right shin after he uses his left arm to tighten the leg down further. The best description of this choke would be a variation on a collar choke (in the gi) but using your own leg as the base of the choke. Pace is able to finish but locking a gable grip overtop of his leg, pulling his leg down and his left arm in tight, crushing Campuzano's windpipe. From a technical stand point, it's a neat idea, but it's one of those things that just requires EVERYTHING to go right for it to work, you can even see looking back at one of Donald Cerrone's fights not too long ago that he tries a variation on this idea repeatedly without success; it's just not a solid technique to rely on in any situation but an absolute do or die emergency moment; it gives up the guard pass and against an opponent who has betterposture awareness it's just going to end poorly for you.
The Pilory Choke:
Here's Patrick Tenney's commentary on this video:
Above is a video of what this particular grappler calls a pillory choke, it demonstrates some of the fundamentals of what occurred between Pace and Campuzano, however even in the video one can tell that it almost requires a willing opponent for the technique to work; to be completely honest I just think Campuzano had a brain fart at the wrong moment and Pace received a revelation from the gods of grappling or something at the same time. Sorry for sounding so negative, but honestly I can't fathom getting caught in this without having a gi on and even then I'm pretty sure it'd end in a guard pass 99 out of 100 times.
Karl Nemeth explains the no arm triangle
Karl Nemeth gets it in competition (blurry video)
Photo by Scott Petersen via mmaweekly.com
Pace talks about the choke:
10th Planet Indy talking about the choke
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Haha I didn't even know you had done this Judo Chop
I linked you the video and thought nothing more of it _
Thank you! Indeed
Just when I am starting think I have probably seen everything in MMA and maybe it is time to stop buying PPVs of the same old stuff, Petis lands a ninja kick and Pace pulls this shit.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
wait until we break down the Makdessi fight
dude landed just about every flashy TKD kick there is. Axe kicks and hook kicks, spinning kicks, side kicks. it was really lovely. Joe Rogan was having multiple orgasms.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Nice
I saw it and Audinwood was completely lost as to what the hell was going on. It was like watching someone learning a foreign language by force.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
yeah and TKD
is maybe the perfect example of novelty techniques. actually some of them are very sound techniques — provided you’ve learned take down defence, modified your stance and learned to trade punches — but anyone with solid wrestling and muay thai boxing who has killer TKD is going to have a huge edge on the average MMA fighter who’s never eaten a lead side kick.
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Ala Crop Cop vs Pat Barry
Crop Cop in the second and third round was landing lead leg side kicks with regularity against Barry’s midsection. Then Crop Cop’s corner began yelling at him to stop. Precisely why when they were landing I’m not entirely sure on.
the invisible collar is neat but easily countered.
Like lots of bravos stuff its a novelty . You can catch some by surprise with it, if they don’t know the move.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Jan 6, 2011 11:15 AM EST via mobile reply actions
is the invisible collar different than the pace choke?
and how exactly.
I’ve got my Rubber Guard book but haven’t had time to look up the invisible collar.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
it seems to be the same "feel" to it.
Use the legs as a place to hook a lever (the choking arm) to choke from. Its neat choke I use it.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Jan 6, 2011 11:27 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
it just doesnt work on good guys.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Jan 6, 2011 11:31 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Invisible collar would be right arm – left leg, or right leg – left arm. Pace choke is right arm right leg or left arm left leg.
Got the Summer hatin on me cus I'm hotter than the sun. Got the Spring hatin on me cus I ain't never sprung. Winter hatin on me cus I'm colder than ya'll; and I will never I will never I will never Fall.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Jan 6, 2011 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
ah,
I should’ve known that!
thanks
Is the invisible collar harder to counter?
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
not really.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Jan 6, 2011 11:33 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Invisible collar is more of a position and less of a submission, sometimes guys will tap to it though, it’s more of a shoulder crush and not a choke though if I recall correctly.
It’s like halfway between new york and kung fu move if you want to use 10th planet terminology.
Got the Summer hatin on me cus I'm hotter than the sun. Got the Spring hatin on me cus I ain't never sprung. Winter hatin on me cus I'm colder than ya'll; and I will never I will never I will never Fall.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Jan 6, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
Sometimes I spit out some 10th planet terminology just to make my instructor say something funny about Eddie Bravo haha.
Got the Summer hatin on me cus I'm hotter than the sun. Got the Spring hatin on me cus I ain't never sprung. Winter hatin on me cus I'm colder than ya'll; and I will never I will never I will never Fall.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Jan 6, 2011 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
It may be silly
But it’s better to have a name for a position, than not. The names are just a mnemonic device. Some make more sense than others, but if you know the positions, and the names, then especially during competition it’s easier to hear “New York!” than “his hand’s on the mat, overhook your right leg!” or “electric chair!” than “Underhook his free leg, gable grip, stretch out his other leg, and roll over!”
I’ve been training at a 10’th planet gym, and i’ll just tell you now- it’s not as silly as it sounds. And as they say, “Don’t knock it until you try it.”
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Jan 6, 2011 12:43 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
sure i agree
but sometimes they are replacing better terms with silly terms.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Well
I’m no groundhog expert, and i’ve only been at this 10’th planet affiliate for a while, but the only EB specific terms i’ve learned are positions that are pretty specific to 10’th PJJ. Lockdown, rubber guard, twister side control/ the truck, etc. All those positions & transitions are very specific to Eddie Bravo’s system.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Jan 6, 2011 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
i choke with it.
But like you say, low % tap on good guys. I have really long limbs, so I can wrap stuff like that. But its more of a novelty and the chokie has to not be too broad.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Jan 6, 2011 11:41 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
If you’re choking someone I’m not sure it’s still an invisible collar if I recall correctly?
I’m not a big expert on the specifics of a lot of 10th planet stuff though.
Got the Summer hatin on me cus I'm hotter than the sun. Got the Spring hatin on me cus I ain't never sprung. Winter hatin on me cus I'm colder than ya'll; and I will never I will never I will never Fall.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Jan 6, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
me either.
I would have to check the book.
You basically use your rubber guard leg as a “collar” and sort of cross choke from it as if it were a Gi.
I thought that was the name, maybe not.
If not..its totally mine and I made it up.. I want royalties on it if you use!!! Make checks payable my screen name! Lol
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Jan 6, 2011 12:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Oh, huh, I thought it was something slightly different and kind of worked the shoulders/clavicles; if it’s what you’re talking about I do something similar that’s essentially a cross collar choke with no gi, works well… have to have a legit guard to use it though and not this Pace choke kind of deal haha.
Got the Summer hatin on me cus I'm hotter than the sun. Got the Spring hatin on me cus I ain't never sprung. Winter hatin on me cus I'm colder than ya'll; and I will never I will never I will never Fall.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Jan 6, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
I have a wicked technique that I use that I’ve not seen anyone else ever do (possibly just works because of my body type), one day I’ll put it out on the net but for now I like winning matches using it without people figuring it out =).
Got the Summer hatin on me cus I'm hotter than the sun. Got the Spring hatin on me cus I ain't never sprung. Winter hatin on me cus I'm colder than ya'll; and I will never I will never I will never Fall.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Jan 6, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
nice! i look forward to it.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Jan 6, 2011 1:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
"It's a hold that Pace pulled from the Rubber Guard --the foundation of Eddie Bravo's controversial 10th Planet Jiu Jitsu system. Score another one for Bravo and the rubber guard."
Or score one for horrible bjj fundamentals and bad guard passing?
Either way Its a neat sub.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Jan 6, 2011 11:21 AM EST via mobile reply actions
well for all the hate on Bravo's techniques from grapplers
fighters using his techniques are winning MMA fights.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Jan 6, 2011 11:22 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i am not hating on the W.
I am just amazed that pros have such bad bjj habits.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Jan 6, 2011 11:30 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
well MMA is a jack-of-all-trades sport
plus they’re getting punched in the face — you know the expression about BJJ belt rankings and getting punched in the face.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
true story.
Jack of all King of none.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Jan 6, 2011 11:34 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I am just amazed that pros have such bad bjj habits.
Punch a blackbelt in the face, and he becomes a brown belt.
It’s easy for grapplers to shit on MMA fighters grappling skills, just like it is easy for boxers to shit on their boxing skills. Grappling is a whole different animal when strikes are introduced, just as boxing is a whole different animal when takedowns/grappling is introduced.
by Steve4192 on Jan 6, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
this
and i’d hate to see what happens to a BJJ guy who tried to triangle someone in a combat situation or a prison fight. there’s a reason the old school jujitsu fighters didn’t teach the triangle choke much. A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Jan 6, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Honest to god we teach the triangle choke in military combatives classes, we also teach that once you have the triangle you pretty much stab the guy or wreck their faces… but I mean, yeah it’s there.
Got the Summer hatin on me cus I'm hotter than the sun. Got the Spring hatin on me cus I ain't never sprung. Winter hatin on me cus I'm colder than ya'll; and I will never I will never I will never Fall.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Jan 6, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
are you familiar with "rough and ready" fighting?
it was the American frontier style. Involved a ton of eye gouging and nose biting off. I’m glad it’s a dead style but damn what a nasty thing to run into — Daniel Boone or Jim Bowie and he’s coming at you with long sharp thumbnails polished and sanded to be eye scoops.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Jan 6, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
thanks Nate
now i’m going to have nightmares of men in coon skin hats yanking out my eyes and putting them on sundaes.
by Tom Flynn on Jan 6, 2011 11:53 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Sounds like a Cormac McCarthy novel.
Got the Summer hatin on me cus I'm hotter than the sun. Got the Spring hatin on me cus I ain't never sprung. Winter hatin on me cus I'm colder than ya'll; and I will never I will never I will never Fall.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Jan 6, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
The Judge would’ve eye gouged and ball-chopped the Marquis of Queensbury into oblivion.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Jan 6, 2011 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
that would be low probability and
That person just signed their death warrant. Lol attempted dick bitings are punishable by death in my book.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Jan 6, 2011 11:51 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
well in a fight to the death
that’s kind of expected. but actually if you put your junk in range of someone’s teeth I’d say the %’s are in favor of the hard sharp bones and not the soft fleshy tissue closely tied to arteries.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by the time the teeth are in "junk range"
Everything is being squeezed by the largest muscles in the human body. Leg would be more probable before everything got tight. But Who knows?
At the kravmaga school I teach jits at they, they teach to bite their way out of the mount. I don’t recomend that……
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Jan 6, 2011 12:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If you bite me when I have mount on you… I would kill you so hard. lol.
Got the Summer hatin on me cus I'm hotter than the sun. Got the Spring hatin on me cus I ain't never sprung. Winter hatin on me cus I'm colder than ya'll; and I will never I will never I will never Fall.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Jan 6, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
when they told me that i asked who wants to try it first.
No one raised their hand. Lol
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Jan 6, 2011 1:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Honestly, the “junk” is in range to be punched or grabbed, but not to be bitten… the man’s mouth is way out of the way, on the other side of the locked triangle. It’s the free hand on the bottom side of the triangle that presents all the danger. He could pull a knife and just start stabbing away.
“esoteric issues relating to battle and genetalia” — I took it as an elective in college. Cool class, but there weren’t many girls.
by judonerd on Jan 6, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This is gonna seem weird...
but my GF always manages to bite my junk when I triangle her. Not in a good “I’m kidding way” either, I always have to let it go. I need to fix my technique apparently.
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
squeeze until her jaw breaks.
Sometimes they got learn the hard way….. lol j/k of course.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Jan 6, 2011 2:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
That sounds good
until I am dickless.
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
if you cant triangle a chic......
Than that has already been established. Lol j/k
I keed I keed…..
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Jan 6, 2011 4:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The triangle...
…is one of the most devastating positions to have on someone in a fight or MMA match. Even if it’s not on tight enough to put your opponent to sleep, they are open to sooooo much stuff (punches, elbows, armbars, shoulder locks). If I’m on bottom in a real fight, I’m breaking down his posture, then slapping on the triangle.
Annnnnnnnnnd, I have a new sig
A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield.
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Jan 6, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Worked on Crazy Horse
Backstage at a PRIDE event
Quick glance at the consensus rankings shows me that Sotiropoulos and Aoki are the only ranked guys that I would consider to be Bravo-esque fighters.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
sure
and that (perhaps) shows the limitations of Bravo’s style. But amongst lesser fighters a guy like Dustin Hazelett can use 10th planet systems and look like a savant until he runs into someone with high level and more technically sound BJJ like Bocek.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Sotiropolous'
beating Kurt Pellegrino was very interesting to me. Pellegrino had been training with Marcelo Garcia and actually busted out some deep half guard stuff (close to X guard but not quite) and Sot capitalized on the weakness of those positions in MMA to bust Pellegrino’s face up pretty good.
Sot used some rubber guard on Kurt but didn’t accomplish much with it.
That’s the highest level bout between a Bravo grappler and a more mainstream trained BJJ guy in MMA that I know of. Bot Sot and Batman are a couple steps above Bocek and Hazelett IMO.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Sot was helped by the fact that he put Pellegrino on queer street in the first round too.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
sure
but it’s an MMA bout. that’s part of the equation. He lit Batman up while Kurt was in deep half guard too. I’d say the Marcelo Garcia school — great as it is for grappling competition — is less applicable to MMA than Bravo’s stuff.
Marcelo isn’t trying to sell his stuff for MMA and I’ve seen some guys do great things with it, but it’s very high risk in MMA.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
deep half guard
against a standing opponent like we saw in Sot vs Pellegrino is something you want to hit quick and get out of, not hang out there like Batman did and eat blows to the head.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
both were black belts before ever training with bravo.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Jan 6, 2011 11:35 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
which is where my novelty theory comes in
I think there’s an inherent value in working some novel techniques — even if they’re limited or somewhat easily countered.
It’s like having a good set of trick plays in football. The novelty will make a risky move much more likely to succeed.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
i agree
I think his stuff is neat. Just not a complete system.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Jan 6, 2011 11:45 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
In all fairness to him and his students, they do learn “normal” BJJ as well, some students I’ve competed against who were 10th planet students didn’t even try anything from that system on me; felt like normal no-gi grappling.
Got the Summer hatin on me cus I'm hotter than the sun. Got the Spring hatin on me cus I ain't never sprung. Winter hatin on me cus I'm colder than ya'll; and I will never I will never I will never Fall.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Jan 6, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
why doesnt he preach that then?
I feel like he lies to people sometimes.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Jan 6, 2011 11:53 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Because it’s less appealing to people who want to be “rebels”.
Note: Every single person I’ve ever spoken to who trained at a 10th planet school has been totally cool except for one guy.
I’m pretty sure there are folks who come in thinking that 10th P is the magic bullet though and then get pissed when someone shows them a normal triangle from a bump sweep.
Got the Summer hatin on me cus I'm hotter than the sun. Got the Spring hatin on me cus I ain't never sprung. Winter hatin on me cus I'm colder than ya'll; and I will never I will never I will never Fall.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Jan 6, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
i have a friend that actually tapped Eddie at a seminar.
And Eddie was super cool about it. And eddie was like " THAT WAS AWESOME! Lets go again". Which I think shows Eddies character and how cool of a martial artist he is.
The guy that tapped him was like 50lbs heavier and is very good so there was no shame in the tap.
He also said eddies rubber guard is ridiculously tight.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Jan 6, 2011 12:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I know you can't tell someone's personality from videos and interviews
but every single thing I have watched or read about Eddie indicates he is super cool. That doesn’t surprise me at all.
BOOSH
guillotine
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Jan 6, 2011 3:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
How’s his rubber guard working for him so far… lol
Got the Summer hatin on me cus I'm hotter than the sun. Got the Spring hatin on me cus I ain't never sprung. Winter hatin on me cus I'm colder than ya'll; and I will never I will never I will never Fall.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Jan 6, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
Ha yeah not only did have nothing for Gsp offensively he got caught in how many different subs? But he is ranked goddammit
by RoB_ex on Jan 6, 2011 1:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I guess to be fair I mean Hardy is ranked a purple belt, and that’s what that match looked like grappling wise… a purple belt against a black belt. GSP for a black belt though sure did just let go of a lot of subs.
Got the Summer hatin on me cus I'm hotter than the sun. Got the Spring hatin on me cus I ain't never sprung. Winter hatin on me cus I'm colder than ya'll; and I will never I will never I will never Fall.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Jan 6, 2011 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
i was not impressed with his performance.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Jan 6, 2011 1:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I didn't finish my comment
for all the hate, we do see quite a few MMA fighters use Bravo’s techniques with some success.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Almost every single “Rubber Guard” technique I’ve seen touted has been shown to have been done before. Nino Schembri messed around with the position in the late ‘80s and early ’90s etc. etc. etc. The people I trust about knowing BJJ history say that Bravo innovated some of the applications and branches off the twister position and that’s about it. The rest is a cleverly marketed packaging of regular BJJ with some stylistic flair thrown in.
This no-arm triangle has been done before – you mention the Ninja Choke yourself – but this is perhaps its application with the most exposure, being on a UFC card.
InStrength dot com.
I'm of the opinion that moves are only discovered or re-discovered
not invented. There’s only so much range of movement with the human body.
But Bravo put the Rubber Guard into a system, that’s what is most impressive to me. The decision tree approach is rich and rarely seen. It’s one thing to work up a few novel moves, it’s another to work up a whole system based on a novel move.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
No need to apologize.
I’m sure it wasn’t easy trying to find intel on this move also.
They made a video game about Yakuzas. It’s called Yakuza. And it’s about Yakuza
the hard part was finding an informed critique of the move
I knew it was something that would be fairly easily escaped/countered so I needed someone with the knowledge and the patience to break that down.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
In my humble, low-skilled opnion
people need to train more, and longer, with a gi and in traditional BJJ. Fundamentals will get you a lot further than crazy subs and techniques.
BOOSH
I’ll throw my opinion in on the rubber guard stuff by the way:
Some of it is good and is based in sound technique, other stuff is not; the end all be all though is that if you hit it and it works… well then I guess it came in handy.
I’d trade all the fancy techniques I know in exchange for perfect fundamentals any day of the week though.
Got the Summer hatin on me cus I'm hotter than the sun. Got the Spring hatin on me cus I ain't never sprung. Winter hatin on me cus I'm colder than ya'll; and I will never I will never I will never Fall.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
for sure
but to me that is a given. But I guess it’s the kind of given that needs to be re-emphasized all the time .
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
People forget stuff pretty easily, it’s one thing to critique a technique, but honestly if it worked then meh, it worked. It’s not something I would do, and I’d love if every single tournament fight I had was a guy who tried that on me so I could score some free points, but it is what it is.
Hell, a lot of people think that the whole cross collar choke from a no arm triangle situation off of the double underhook leg stack pass is a crap move, then Romulo wrecked a dude with it and everyone was like “whoah”.
Got the Summer hatin on me cus I'm hotter than the sun. Got the Spring hatin on me cus I ain't never sprung. Winter hatin on me cus I'm colder than ya'll; and I will never I will never I will never Fall.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Jan 6, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
You just wrecked my brain with all of your jargon.
OHHHHH! OH MY GOODNESS DID YOU SEE THAT?! He ran up the wall like a ninja and landed a high kick! Unbelievable! I've never seen anything like that, it's like something out of a movie!
by lowellthehammer on Jan 6, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
You should hear me when I teach my d’arce choke or triangle choke seminar. I know way too many setups for those two chokes and I go way too specific with my jargon.
Most people just look at me funny until I just say “you put your arm (or leg) here” and “squeeze”.
Got the Summer hatin on me cus I'm hotter than the sun. Got the Spring hatin on me cus I ain't never sprung. Winter hatin on me cus I'm colder than ya'll; and I will never I will never I will never Fall.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Jan 6, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
I guess Bocek vs Hazelett
is a perfect example of someone having incredible technique and fundamentals beating someone who relies more on flashy technique. I admit as someone who doesn’t practice BJJ, the flashy stuff is very exciting and basically eye candy, but I am learning more and more to appreciate the little things the more I read stuff like this. Good work guys.
Pretty sweet
as for 10th planet vs traditional, in pure grappling traditional seems to win out, even in no-gi grappling. Seems like 50/50 guard will continue to be strong in the metagame at lighter weight classes.
In MMA I would agree that there are advantages to the 10th planet system. Namely, if someone is lay and pray’ing it’s hard to use traditional jiu jitsu but you could probably get the rubber guard.
I don’t get how it’s hard to use traditional jiu jitsu if someone is lay and praying but rubber guard is easier?
Got the Summer hatin on me cus I'm hotter than the sun. Got the Spring hatin on me cus I ain't never sprung. Winter hatin on me cus I'm colder than ya'll; and I will never I will never I will never Fall.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Jan 6, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
specifically, I mean the type of lay and pray where the guy in top control doesn’t really care about posture, and literally lays on top of the guard player and throws small punches, while retaining his base. In Jiu Jitsu if you did this it would be stalling but because in mma you can throw punches from this weak position the fight stays there.
it seems in this position you should just transition to a rubber guard instead of a closed guard since rubber guard offers more offense without you risking getting passed.
by IpullguardIRL on Jan 6, 2011 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
Lay flat on a good jiu jitsu player in their guard, see what happens; having your posture broken down in the guard like that is not a good idea pretty much ever.
Got the Summer hatin on me cus I'm hotter than the sun. Got the Spring hatin on me cus I ain't never sprung. Winter hatin on me cus I'm colder than ya'll; and I will never I will never I will never Fall.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Jan 6, 2011 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
stuff an arm and triangle ;-)
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Jan 6, 2011 4:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Well
coming from a guy who’s trained in a variety of different styles of sub grappling (judo, CSW, BJJ, & 10’th PJJ), I can tell you that each style has it’s advantages in different situations.
One of the advantages of the rubber guard & lockdown half guard are that they’re positions that can be played very well when the opponent is chest- to- chest with you. You’re going to have trouble sweeping, or getting triangles/ armbars/ leglocks on an apt Jits player, chest to chest. However, the rubber guard is very easy to put in place on a 0° opponent; stick your foot on the hip, grab the leg, and work from mission control.
I personally prefer hip bump/ pendulum sweeps & an open butterfly guard for my game, so I don’t use rubber guard stuff unless a guy is really good at getting right on top of me.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Jan 7, 2011 9:10 AM EST up reply actions
I'm glad you wrote this
Just so “Pace” and “choke” can be in the same sentence without referring to my stint as a pitcher on the high school baseball team.
Also because I love Judo Chops.
I hate to be "That Guy", but Edgar/Maynard II wasn’t close to the best fight I’ve ever seen…
"When Kawajiri is on his game, finding a way to beat him is about as hard as finding a pubic hair at a Justin Beiber concert." – The Voice
"Unfortunately, it won’t shut anyone up, but if (the Falcons) get a Lombardi, I’m going to spend all of 2011 not giving a rat’s ass what anyone says." – Dave Choate

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