MMA-themed T-shirts ape Nazi imagery even if they don't use the authentic symbols
I refuse to buy the notion that any resemblance to Nazi symbols is completely unintentional. I believe the exact opposite: The "MMA apparel" companies are constantly trying to ape the Nazi aesthetic and they're only called out on it when they copy actual Nazi symbols as opposed to just using similar imagery (or when they're Hoelzer Reich, for obvious reasons).
When Wal-Mart used the Totenkopf, while they presumably had no idea what it represented, but they were trying to knock off shirts with a similar aesthetic to Nazi imagery. The companies who make shirts geared towards MMA fighters and fans have used Nazi imagery a lot more to the point that I refuse to believe that it's completely coincidental. From Affliction and TapOut all the way on down to smaller companies, the shirts all look similar: Skulls, crossbones, eagles/wings, lightning, crosses that are similar to but not quite Iron Crosses, etc. They're all common in Nazi imagery, but the actual Nazi symbols aren't being copied.
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While I agree that companies should be held accountable for using nazi imagery, are you really saying that any use of skulls, eagles etc. should be frowned upon? really?
Nope.
If it was a skull here or an eagle there, sure. But when most of the recognizable symbols in the designs are common in Nazi iconography, the style of most of the designs evokes Nazi/white power/etc. imagery, the shirt companies have “accidentally” used undeniable Nazi symbols on multiple occasions, and the one actual pro-Nazi company didn’t look out of place as a UFC sponsor, it’s far from a coincidence or just some shared symbols.
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by David Bixenspan on Jan 5, 2011 11:38 PM EST up reply actions
I am sick of all this Nazi imagery argument. As if THAT is why we should not buy this merchandise.
How about the fact that these shirts are fucking hideous. Simply wearing one should make you a target for public mockery. Why can’t PETA dump buckets of fake blood on the assclowns who wear this crap and the scumbags who peddle it to every juiced up GTL douchenozzle at da club?
"Hey, I guess they're right. Senior citizens, although slow and dangerous behind the wheel, can still serve a purpose." - Lloyd Christmas
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by Earl Montclair on Jan 5, 2011 9:58 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
i have a few tapout shirts, and im no tough guy. yes, im a tad ashamed.
by Hendo_One-Shot on Jan 5, 2011 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
I bought the Clay Guida Iron Maiden Shirt on black friday on the mega-cheap
But that shirt is bad ass so it’s all good.
"Hey, I guess they're right. Senior citizens, although slow and dangerous behind the wheel, can still serve a purpose." - Lloyd Christmas
UnintelligentDefense.blogspot.com
by Earl Montclair on Jan 5, 2011 10:37 PM EST up reply actions
Well, shirts like that, the 8-bit Pulver shirt, etc don’t look like ugly biker tattoos.
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by David Bixenspan on Jan 5, 2011 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
I can’t disagree with any comments about the generic MMA shirts generally being ugly.
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by David Bixenspan on Jan 5, 2011 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
Why I had to be the first to rec this comment, I do not know.
That’s what I said in one of the precious threads. These shirts suck.
"You stick a microphone in a guy's face and he calls out anybody but the champion, and Joe Silva should fax him a pink slip right then." -- Chael Sonnen.
Spirals and sparkles it is.

UFC Win Finish % (Top 15 & 6 UFC wins): Belfort 100, Penn 92, Florian 91, Velasquez 86, A. Silva 83, JDS 83, Mir 83, T. Silva 83, Franklin 77, Kongo 75, Leben 73, Hughes 72, Sotiropoulos 71, Alves 70, Couture 69, Marquardt 67, Lytle 67, Maia 63, Koscheck 62, Bisping 60, Rivera 57, Rampage 50, Kampmann 50, J. Miller 50, GSP 47, Sanchez 45, Okami 40, Evans 40, Forrest 38, Machida 38, Fitch 31, Sherk 25, Edgar 25, Maynard 13 (Updated 1/1/11)
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jan 7, 2011 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
I have the Tam Lawlor lawlormania shirt but i don’t wear it.

i mean this is just bad ass
by TheBiggertheyare... on Jan 5, 2011 11:05 PM EST reply actions
That’s awesome.
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by David Bixenspan on Jan 5, 2011 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
You're about a week/2 weeks too late
and you must’ve missed the boat where its annoying as fuck to post a partial fanpost and then try to link it
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Get Em!
"Hey, I guess they're right. Senior citizens, although slow and dangerous behind the wheel, can still serve a purpose." - Lloyd Christmas
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by Earl Montclair on Jan 6, 2011 12:25 AM EST up reply actions
The Signature more of Unintelligent Defense (RIP)
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We died?
"Hey, I guess they're right. Senior citizens, although slow and dangerous behind the wheel, can still serve a purpose." - Lloyd Christmas
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by Earl Montclair on Jan 6, 2011 2:13 AM EST up reply actions
poison warning labels, Hindus, Buddhists, and 17th century pirates
also use Nazi imagery
by deepbeep on Jan 6, 2011 1:51 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Stop this nonsense this very instant
This type of imagery isn’t “Nazi based”. All of these symbols and this type of art are Western European symbols that the Nazi’s also used. This is why they used them. Because Germany is a Western European country. Because the Nazi’s used this rune or this animal or this design or that design is no reason to stamp out an entire cultural artistic lexicon. That’s racist as fuck in itself.
I understand not using a direct symbol that was exclusive to their specific regime(IE the Death’s Head and all the stuff from HR). That is divisive and stupid. But now anything remotely resembling the cultural/military art style from entire groups of people from entire continents is off limits?
Do Asian MMA fans get bent out of shape when Japanese apparel companies use symbols that resemble Japanese art from WW2?
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
Did it cause a controversy?
I doubt it though, as Asians aren’t conditioned to despise their own heritage and culture as those in the West are.
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 6, 2011 6:07 AM EST up reply actions
A new type of genocide
cutural genocide. Self imposed. Maddening times we live in. Why do you think I bury my head in martial arts?
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 6, 2011 6:12 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Japanese people should be angry when anything resembling US military insignia is on clothing, shouldn’t they? We nuked them, thereby killing about 200K civilians. We don’t seem to care about our own evils though.
UFC Win Finish % (Top 15 & 6 UFC wins): Belfort 100, Penn 92, Florian 91, Velasquez 86, A. Silva 83, JDS 83, Mir 83, T. Silva 83, Franklin 77, Kongo 75, Leben 73, Hughes 72, Sotiropoulos 71, Alves 70, Couture 69, Marquardt 67, Lytle 67, Maia 63, Koscheck 62, Bisping 60, Rivera 57, Rampage 50, Kampmann 50, J. Miller 50, GSP 47, Sanchez 45, Okami 40, Evans 40, Forrest 38, Machida 38, Fitch 31, Sherk 25, Edgar 25, Maynard 13 (Updated 1/1/11)
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jan 7, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
Don Quixote anyone?
I had to double check the subject a couple of times after I saw the picture of your “smoking gun”. Come on, besides the shirt being sickenly tasteless in fashion terms, and really hurting to watch, I can’t really understand what the heck you’re aiming at.
Is there a conspiracy behind this? All MMA-fans being undercover Nazis and Tapout, Silverstar and others funding another crack at world domination?
It wasn’t supposed to be a smoking gun, just the first example in the Affliction store that I saw that had a bunch of common imagery. Again:
If it was a skull here or an eagle there, sure. But when most of the recognizable symbols in the designs are common in Nazi iconography, the style of most of the designs evokes Nazi/white power/etc. imagery (not just the symbols, the whole aesthetic), the shirt companies have "accidentally" used undeniable Nazi symbols on multiple occasions, and the one actual pro-Nazi company didn’t look out of place as a UFC sponsor, it’s far from a coincidence or just some shared symbols.
CagesideSeats.com
Follow me on Twitter @davidbix.
by David Bixenspan on Jan 6, 2011 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
you make the point for the clothing companies in your own article
It also has nothing to do with the quality of the designs: The Nazis made a point of using striking, well-designed imagery
Yeah, they stole powerful imagery from other things and incorporated it into their own movement. What the nazis did was awful, but you know what’s also shitty? trying to imply that a company is nazi-sympathetic because they use a skull and crossbones or eagles. Are you aware that the US’s symbol is a bald eagle? Should we stop using that?
There’s a fucking difference between using the Totenkopf and using these type of images that have been tied to MULTIPLE military regimes and movements throughout the years. If I were a rep for Affliction I may think of giving you a ring, as your implication that they are nazi sympathizers because of a few shitty designs is borderline defamation.
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by Austin Martin on Jan 6, 2011 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
What the nazis did was awful, but you know what’s also shitty? trying to imply that a company is nazi-sympathetic because they use a skull and crossbones or eagles
Which I DIDN’T SAY.
Are you aware that the US’s symbol is a bald eagle? Should we stop using that?
If they also liberally used lightning, skulls, crossbones, etc, then, yes, maybe. But they don’t.
There’s a fucking difference between using the Totenkopf and using these type of images that have been tied to MULTIPLE military regimes and movements throughout the years.
And they’re most commonly tied to the Nazis now.
If I were a rep for Affliction I may think of giving you a ring, as your implication that they are nazi sympathizers because of a few shitty designs is borderline defamation.
Show me where I said that.
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by David Bixenspan on Jan 6, 2011 7:29 PM EST up reply actions
One more thing:
Again, it’s the context. Ignoring the issues of what direction it flows in, a swastika in the context of centuries old east Asian imagery is not a Nazi swastika. In the context of lightning, skulls, crossbones, iron crosses, eagles/wings, etc. done in an aesthetic similar to Nazi iconography or Neo Nazi imagery, it’s a Nazi swastika. In becomes an issue when all of those things are constantly being used together in a similar style, especially when one of the major companies (now under the same umbrella as an even bigger companies) has used undeniable Nazi symbols a few times and then cried “ACCIDENT! CLIP-ART DRIVEN INDUSTRY! HOW COULD WE HAVE KNOWN?”. It’s even worse when the latest example involved a symbol that was all over mainstream news (while also being huge news in the T-shirt design industry; do you really think they paid no attention to it?) when the Wal-Mart Totenkopf debacle went down.
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by David Bixenspan on Jan 6, 2011 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
The companies who make shirts geared towards MMA fighters and fans have used Nazi imagery a lot more to the point that I refuse to believe that it’s completely coincidental. From Affliction and TapOut all the way on down to smaller companies, the shirts all look similar:
that’s an implication. Plus you’re using one of their T shirts as an example in your article.
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by Austin Martin on Jan 6, 2011 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
Seriously, that’s it?
That’s not an implication that they’re Nazi sympathizers. It’s an implication that they know that they’re aping Nazi imagery.
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by David Bixenspan on Jan 6, 2011 7:54 PM EST up reply actions
also, guaranteed you're using a copywrited image as an example
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by Austin Martin on Jan 6, 2011 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
Commentary on the image. Fair use.
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Follow me on Twitter @davidbix.
by David Bixenspan on Jan 6, 2011 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
yes, you’re commenting that the company wants to portray a nazi image and using their copyrighted photo as an example. I wonder if an Affliction rep would be cool with that?
New England Patriots: We don't rebuild, we reload
by Austin Martin on Jan 6, 2011 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the reproduction of a particular work may be considered fair, such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research.
I’m not arguing that the company itslef wants to portray a Nazi image. I’m saying that they’re selling merchandise that plays off Nazi imagery. There’s a distinction. It was being used as an example of a generic MMA shirt that resembles white power shirts. Were blogs that displayed the Wal-Mart Totenkopf shirts while reporting and commenting on them violating Wal-Mart’s copyright?
Again: If, say, Hoeler Reich is THAT far off from the other shirt companies in terms of design, why did it take numerous complaints to get UFC to ban them as a sponsor? If Silverstar’s “accidental” usage of multiple straight-up Nazi symbols was so far off from the standard “badass MMA shirt” designs, then why did it even happen?
Let’s say that they really, truly had no idea and were just going through standard clipart used in the “badass MMA shirt” style. Fine. Why would the Totenkopf even be in there if the style of clipart wasn’t aping Nazi-style art in the first place?
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by David Bixenspan on Jan 6, 2011 8:16 PM EST up reply actions
Ok, this might best sum up my point:
Lemmy from Motorhead is not a Nazi sympathizer. He just really likes the aesthetics of Nazi imagery and uses it in Motorhead merchandise. Even if his intentions are pure, I don’t have to like it or think it’s a good idea.
I don’t think that people from most of the MMA shirt companies are Nazi sympathizers. I think they just like the aesthetics of Nazi imagery and use in their merchandise. Even if their intentions are pure, I don’t have to like it or think it’s a good idea.
CagesideSeats.com
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by David Bixenspan on Jan 6, 2011 8:23 PM EST up reply actions
Give this a rest.
If companies decide to use imagery that is the same as or extremely similiar it is disgraceful especially if its by design. They should as has been done pull the t-shirt or whatever it may be from sales and apologize. This however is a fine line to walk along.
The general theme of most MMA apparel through my viewpoint is not neo-Nazi influenced, (I’m European, Swedish to be exact ) are there similarities yes. Depends of how one views the history of the different elements that are used. One must remember that the Nazis (WWII) borrowed everything from everywhere. These different elements in the designs have been used globally within many countries and still do and has nothing to do with nazism even though they were also used by them.
In this post a smiliar discussion took place:
If you first look at the nazi symbol in that post:
1: Diving eagle is a common military symbol used by armed forces around the world and long before the WWII the eagle in every pose was popular. Just google around for coat of arms of different noble families,cities and countries.
2. The diving eagle is holding a swastika. Now eagles holding different objects isnt really revolutionary. I even think that it might be one of the most common combinations (might be exagerating) of images there are. Because it aint hard to find official insignias (badges, medals, etc), coat of arms, etc both civil and military with that combination.
Below in the link its an American pilot with crew in front of his plane in WWII
Diving eagle riding a lightning bolt holding a bomb.
Now if this t-shirt design is to similiar I don’t know it wasn’t what i thought of when i saw it even though I’m very familiar with Nazism and their imagery due to being addicted to historical documentaries as well as discovery channel and other channels with the same content.
The t-shirt I discuss above might have borrowed nazi-styles imagery but it could also have borrowed from the american armed forces imagary but then thats not saying much cause in Europe this kind of imagery didnt show up circa 1910-1945 its been around for hundreds of years. Its also seen and used around the world, today and of old.
To me MMA apparell looks like a blend of styles. Hip-hop and Metal as well as inspired by militarism and different styles of tattooing. But thats through my eyes.
Then again one could argue that if thats is the first thing some people see and identify it with the discussion should end there which is a valid point.
I could write for ages about this discussion but I’m already sick of it and don’t feel like it anymore and I even considered deleting the whole f-ing post.
The first sentence of the full post covered the general idea of symbols being co-opted by the Nazis. I’m fully aware of that, especially for the more mundane stuff (lightning). When pretty much EVERY SINGLE symbol in the ugly stock MMA designs is also common in Nazi iconography to the point that they repeatedly use straight-up Nazi symbols, then it’s their own fault.
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Follow me on Twitter @davidbix.
by David Bixenspan on Jan 6, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
To me MMA apparell looks like a blend of styles. Hip-hop and Metal as well as inspired by militarism and different styles of tattooing. But thats through my eyes.
This is true. And bix knows this. But when you have a failing WWE/MMA blog, this won’t bring any fresh eyes.
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 6, 2011 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
Failing? We’re well above SBN’s goals for the site.
And the post had nothing to do with bringing in huge traffic. I’m a Semite. I hate Nazi crap. QED.
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by David Bixenspan on Jan 6, 2011 6:34 PM EST up reply actions
I’m a Semite
That exists? I have never, ever, heard someone use that term like this.
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Just trying to see how many ways I can say it without using the obvious one. I probably wouldn’t have used “Christ killer.”
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by David Bixenspan on Jan 7, 2011 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
Wait
you’re Roman?
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on Jan 7, 2011 4:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No way I’m not rec’ing that.
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by David Bixenspan on Jan 7, 2011 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
LOL @ this
“Failing” blog
Reppin' the NYMMAI.
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by S.C. Michaelson on Jan 6, 2011 8:03 PM EST up reply actions
As a fellow oppressed minority I’d love for you to jump in elsewhere, my friend.
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by David Bixenspan on Jan 6, 2011 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
As a fellow oppressed minority
Are you fucking serious with that bullshit? GTFOH
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by Austin Martin on Jan 6, 2011 8:09 PM EST up reply actions
Get a sense of humor.
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by David Bixenspan on Jan 6, 2011 8:10 PM EST up reply actions
Huh?
Confused by your response.
Reppin' the NYMMAI.
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Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun . Imma write til the wheels fall off.
12/30/10 The day I made the MMaManiacs cry.
Don't subscribe to C.A.B.L.E.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jan 6, 2011 8:18 PM EST up reply actions
Just saying I’d love to see your thoughts. :)
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by David Bixenspan on Jan 6, 2011 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
whats cable
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by Urijah Bieber on Jan 6, 2011 9:47 PM EST up reply actions
So if there is a skull its automaticly nazi imagery.
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Another one bits the dust. -- Myself
by Tokyo Sandblaster on Jan 6, 2011 3:31 PM EST reply actions
Nope.
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by David Bixenspan on Jan 6, 2011 4:14 PM EST up reply actions

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