Herschel Walker's Inexperience Is Not Bad for Strikeforce, MMA
Here's a test. Tell me about the MMA careers of Jay Lester and Johnny Curtis. These were the first two opponents on a top prospect today, so I presume everyone must be familiar with their names.
Don't sound too familiar, do they?
These were the first two fighters UFC heavyweight fighter Brendan Schaub faced in his MMA career. Lester has one recorded fight - this loss - and Curtis is not a name familiar to fight fans except in Northern Virginia. Both of Schaub's first two fights combined for a total of one minute and thirty-seven seconds in fighting action. Admittedly, Curtis had an accomplished Division I amateur wrestling career, but I was cageside for that event. Curtis was long, long past his athletic prime and came in unprepared, even uninterested, that night. Schaub has always been a serious talent, but didn't really have to use many of his skills to put Curtis away.
I bring this up because of a particular criticism levied at Herschel Walker. Walker is certainly no Brendan Schaub, nor is he trying to be. But the former football great is being attacked for facing opposition that realistically have no chance of winning or even doing damage. The charge is that if one is going to fight on such a large stage for an elite MMA promotion, either be capable of competing at that level or get out of the way.
The truth is early professional experience in MMA is incredibly uneven and often tailored to be some kind of a building experience for one of the two fighters competing. This is particularly true in the case of someone like Schaub, an elite fighter from an elite camp with considerable ability. Schaub and his handlers, in the very early stages of a top prospects' career, are usually looking to simply break the MMA ice with the first fight. The second fight of fighter's career may be a test to see how they an execute a more strategic gameplan. But one need not even be a prospect to get this kind of treatment. The separation between amateur MMA, which is frankly a chaotic mess, and professional debuts is virtually nonexistent.
Strikeforce is handling Walker's MMA career exactly as they should be. The idea that only fighters of certain caliber belong in elite organizations is now a rule of thumb, not a sacred edict. If exceptions to the rule make sense - particularly for a number two promotion looking for a unique leg up - then make them. Even if Coker's organization doesn't always get the mention in the media when Walker fights that it arguably deserves, his events and the sport itself do.
Walker is taking a path no different than any other MMA fighter with commensurate experience. The pushback on Walker is as much pushback against Walker's participation in the sport as it is a lack of familiarity with low-level professional MMA. I often wonder how many of those who decry Walker's participation have ever attended a regional MMA event. Those fights lack the superstar power of Walker, but look no different. They're nasty, brutish and often very short. Perhaps this is part of the reason why local or regional MMA promoters often struggle: not even MMA fans are paying attention to their shows.
Several journalists and fans noted on Twitter last night that many if not all of the main card participants in last night's show were trending on Twitter. Who do you think is responsible for that, Jacare? The mic skills of Robbie Lawler? Roger Gracie's massive pre-fight hype? That credit belongs to Herschel Walker and likely Herschel Walker alone. No one else to my knowledge had a write-up in the Associated Press heading into the bout or the sporting talk radio hype or the curiosity of casual sporting fans. The sports fans may have all paid less attention to Walker this time than they did for his debut, but that's still a level of attention leagues above anything anyone else on last night's card was pulling in. Critics often say it's the "real fighters" who deserve the shine. I don't disagree, but much of the attention paid to last night's "real fighters" is a direct result of a fighter participating in only his second MMA bout.
It's unclear if Walker will participate in MMA again. I suspect he will, but either way, the condemnation some of MMA's faithful heap on Walker is getting it completely wrong and entirely backwards. He deserves a debt of gratitude from all fans of mixed martial arts. He's fighting the right opposition at the right time in his development and doing so while giving the sport a boost to the right audience. That's more than any of us can say of virtually any fighter competing today, irrespective of weight class or organization.
I say thanks, Herschel. We all owe you one.
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I still don’t get the Anti-Herschel stance. He hasn’t done anything harmful to SF or MMA or sports in general. He is a good guy that is just starting his career and his name brings eyes to other fighters that are at a higher level than him, and he recognizes that.
Where is the negative?
by IRodC on Jan 30, 2011 4:46 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
There’s only really one, which is giving main card space to a 48 year old fighter with no real future in the sport. While that’s happening, actual mixed martial artists trying to make a living off of it are left to watch the 1982 Heisman winner fight on TV while they toil in obscurity. That’s pretty much it, for me.
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jan 30, 2011 4:48 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
True
But these things happen all of the time and Herschel is obviously less offensive than Kimbo headlining or James Toney co-headlining. He’s doing all the things those guys didn’t.
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
…how is Walker “obviously less offensive” than Toney? James is significantly younger and was world class at a combat sport. Walker hadn’t been engaged in competitive athletic activity in more than a decade.
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jan 30, 2011 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
From Mike Chiappetta
“Actually, it’s just the opposite. We should be thanking him. Walker’s involvement gets MMA out into the mainstream, where regular sports fans don’t see him as a joke, even though he’s 48 years old. He’s not James Toney coming into the sport overweight and from an anonymous training camp. And he’s not Kimbo Slice who never actually accomplished much in the sports world. This is Herschel Walker: Heisman Trophy Winner, NFL star, Olympic bobsledder. Athletically, he’s as legitimate as they come.”
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
by Luke Thomas on Jan 30, 2011 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
Thanking him? He deserves a debt of gratitude?
Aren’t you overstating it a little? I’m pretty sure the likes of GSP, BJ Penn, and Chuck Liddell feel very little “debt of gratitude” to Herschel Walker for “getting MMA into the mainstream.” You know who Herschel’s participation helps? Herschel. It perpetuates his dearly-held mythology that he is the greatest, most indestructible athlete of all time — a real life (flawed, unassuming and ever-humble) superhero. It also gets eyeballs on Strikeforce events where the “mainstream” fan may tune in and believe that this ballet of awkwardly produced pugilism represents the best of the what the sport has to offer. While I truly respect the time that Walker puts into the sport and the authentic camaraderie that he feels for the guys at AKA, I cringe that a major promotion will put a guy like Scott Carson out there on Showtime to make Walker feel good about himself, and to allow this charade to go on unabated. None of the absurd pageantry is unprecedented in the sport, and perhaps it’s just good business for SF at this point in the game, but don’t tell me that I need to feel any gratitude for this confusing spectacle while perfectly good fighters toil in relative obscurity.
by Charlie Custer on Jan 30, 2011 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
Another day, another guy who doesn’t get it. Thanks for playing, though.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
by Luke Thomas on Jan 30, 2011 8:27 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
I get it.
The grass is greener and the sky more blue when everyone just agrees with you. I know that game. My opinion is that Herschel Walker will have exactly nothing to do with whether or not MMA goes big-time. That is, unless you say it will, in which case it will be of course be a crucial factor.
by Charlie Custer on Jan 31, 2011 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
Mainly because Walker isn’t an indecipherable shot fighter suffering from dementia pugilistica dedicated to turning his fights into a spectacle.
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
He also looks and acts like a professional athlete should.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
by TheFilt on Jan 30, 2011 5:10 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
We both know he didn't do that
It was one of his other personalities.
But yeah, that’s pretty much a standard pro athlete thing to do.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
by TheFilt on Jan 30, 2011 5:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I knew Subo would end up defending the James Toney fiasco at some point this week.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
If you’re going to criticize the Walker thing, you might as well be consistent with Toney.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
Dana called it a ‘freak show fight" and I don’t disagree. But wouldn’t it have been sillier to put Randy Couture against Ryne Sandberg or Ronnie Lott?
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jan 30, 2011 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
The lack of an answer here speaks volumes. It would have been sillier.
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jan 30, 2011 6:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I really hoped you wouldn't do this, dude. I honestly did.
Brendan Schaub, let alone Jay Lester or Johnny Curtis, wasn’t copping main-card slots from other fighters. I’m less against it than I was before because Herschel has done everything right and been a great ambassador – but I’d still hate to be on the undercard of an event he was fighting in.
There’s only really one, which is giving main card space to a 48 year old fighter with no real future in the sport. While that’s happening, actual mixed martial artists trying to make a living off of it are left to watch the 1982 Heisman winner fight on TV while they toil in obscurity. That’s pretty much it, for me.
To make those statements and defend Toney vs. Couture in any way, shape, or form is simply unconscionable. Many sponsor agreements have clauses that elevate pay for fighters in a main or co-main slot. So while Kenny Florian and Gray Maynard fought for a title shot on UFC 118, neither of them got their extra co-main event pay because this farcical event got forced into a top slot.
You can argue that they never would have taken the co-main slot since Randy has headlined or co-headlines damn near every UFC card he’s fought on. Probably all of them, I just don’t feel like doing the legwork to confirm that it right now. But what about the other LHWs who were ready around that time?
Besides all the previously mentioned reasons why that event (which cannot rightly be called a bout, fight, contest, or competition) are ridiculous, I just hate to see any defense of it at the same time you opine the plight of the unnoticed fighter.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jan 30, 2011 6:39 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Read what I wrote again
I said it was a freak show, but putting Randy up against an aged athlete with no history in combat sports would have been even freakier.
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jan 30, 2011 8:35 PM EST up reply actions
This is STUPID!
You don’t think that any of those other fighters benefit from Walker fighting on this card?
I’m sure sponsor were more willing to shell out some cash to fighters, because instead of it being another strikeforce card that went by the wayside, this card was promoted (via Walker) by major sports media outlets.
Say what you want, but if Walker fighting means that Strikeforce gets more promotion, and more eyes watching them… even if it means that Nathan Coy vs. Nate Moore doesn’t get shown on a main card…I’m all for it.
And I’m sure most the other fighters on the card are all for it as well.
by Fedorable on Jan 31, 2011 11:04 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes…?
Has Ryne Sandberg been trainiing with AKA for almost 2 years now? Has Ryne Sandberg been training in ANY martial art since he’s been a little kid? Has Ryne Sandberg been keeping in shape that put most professional athletes to shame?
Comparing Ryne Sandberg vs. Randy Couture to Hershal Walker/Scott Carson is rediculous.
What was honestly offensive about Kimbo?
When you looked at the guy, he was very open and honest regarding his faults. And he was always humble. AND he brought far more attention to the cards he was fighting on. You can’t blame him for the hype or unrealistic expectations people heaped upon him.
by disinferno06 on Jan 30, 2011 5:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
What’s wrong is that he talked more than he trained.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 30, 2011 5:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Just wanted to say...
I purchased the MMA Encyclopedia on Kindle. Very Good book. Thank you.!
"Life is pain, Highness. Anyone who says differently is selling something"...The Dread Pirate Roberts
His gas tank is offensive.
Fire Gus "What's a screen?" Bradley.
by SSreporters on Jan 30, 2011 5:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think it's the same actually.
No difference between what Elite Xc is doing with him, and Strikeforce is doing with Hershell
Nobody on the prelims was gettingb bumped up
And it didn’t take headliner/coheadliner bonuses from anybody. I agree with your principles here, but it didn’t matter much in this case.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jan 30, 2011 5:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I agree with your principles here, but it didn’t matter much in this case.
You sound like my probation officer.
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jan 30, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No shit
You speak to people IRL the way you interact online?
Bless your heart.
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on Jan 30, 2011 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
thats why he has a probation officer.
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart." - Rickson Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison."
by the-gentle-way on Jan 30, 2011 6:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
...are you saying I shouldn't?
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jan 30, 2011 6:05 PM EST up reply actions
Not exactly
I’m saying I kinda thought (was hoping?) “Subo” was a shtick of some sort. Some character you created for fun on the internet to start flame wars about non UFC promotions being too big for their britches.
But if you’re asking me directly, than yes. You definitely shouldn’t “Subo” in real life.
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on Jan 30, 2011 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry to disappoint. I used to stir shit way, way harder than I do now.
And you’re probably right, I just can’t help it.
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jan 30, 2011 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
Business..
Who gets the main card and who gets the under are pure business choices…Not eveyone can be on the televised part of the show.
"Life is pain, Highness. Anyone who says differently is selling something"...The Dread Pirate Roberts
by Naztuu on Jan 30, 2011 5:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And how , exactly, would any fighter’s life be any better if Herschel wasn’t competing? Someone toiling in obscurity would have taken his place on the TV portion of a card that has 2 title fights? Herschel is only adding viewers to the sport.
Your beliefs become your reality.
by Hardy's in your face on Jan 30, 2011 10:44 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Brendan Schaub, let alone Jay Lester or Johnny Curtis, wasn’t copping main-card slots from other fighters. I’m less against it than I was before because Herschel has done everything right and been a great ambassador – but I’d still hate to be on the undercard of an event he was fighting in.
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jan 30, 2011 4:46 PM EST reply actions
Bigger name means main card. Always, and when it comes to sports there aren’t many guys in MMA with bigger national recognition and/or respect than Herschel Walker.
UFC 81, Brock Lesnar coming into his 2nd pro fight. Why is he getting a main card slot over someone like Chris Lytle or Tyson Griffin? Because he is a more recognizable name that will bring in viewers. Which also brought more viewers to Nogueira vs. Sylvia.
No, I’m not comparing the fighting abilities of Walker to Lesnar, or Mir to Carson for that matter. But both of them bring in more viewers, which is all that matters for a promotion that wants good ratings (or in the UFCs case, PPV buys).
Attendance would be another factor but I don’t have the info to see if Walker makes a difference or not.
by IRodC on Jan 30, 2011 5:23 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
You realize that Strikeforce didn’t even have anybody in mind for this main card slot, right? You realize that none of those guys on the prelims would be bumped to the main card, right? It was a main card with four fights and could have had another easily.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter | SB Nation Bay Area | SaberCats Examiner | Niners Nation | FTF Mod
And i say thanks to you, Luke.
This is a chronically overlooked truth. Regional events are sloppy as hell. When MMA fans call somebody like Prangley a can, you know they have never seen what regional MMA regularly offers.
Another good fact to throw in is that Carwin beat middleweights before getting the call to the UFC. Regional level booking isn’t fair or pretty.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jan 30, 2011 4:48 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Here in the NW
we’re lucky to have a lot of amateur guys who look and fight like pros. FoxSports and Comcast Sports Net show some of the bigger local shows and you’d be surprised how polished some of these ams look.
You’re right, for the most part, amateur shows can be some sloppy ugly affairs. Occasionally a guy with some real skill will fight, but its usually one sided.
"I'll rock your body with big nasty hooks!"
I’m gonna stop ya half way through the third paragraph because Chaub’s fights were not on a nationally televised main card.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t mind Herschel Walker because he has a good attitude and he’s a beast for someone his age but he’s 47 and at this rate he’s fighting 1-2 times a year. So he’s not gonna finish his career with a 20+ something record. So he needs to start fighting legitimate guys. Strikeforce are just feeding him fighters he can win, there’s no “test”. for him so that is why I am not really interested in his career. There’s no purpose to it.
Read the rest, because nothing you say makes sense aside from the first sentence, and it’s a moot point considering there was only four fights on the main card and nobody of any value at all on the prelims.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter | SB Nation Bay Area | SaberCats Examiner | Niners Nation | FTF Mod
If Walker wasn’t on the card, they would have scheduled another main card-worthy fight for the event. It’s not simply a matter of pushing up an undercard guy.
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
I disagree, because they had plenty of time for five and didn’t go for it. This event wouldn’t have happened without Herschel Walker.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter | SB Nation Bay Area | SaberCats Examiner | Niners Nation | FTF Mod
Herschel wasn’t even supposed to be on this card hiself. He was supposed to be on the December 4th card but suffered a cut in training in late November. They scheduled him in the next spot they had available, which was this card.
As for the way they scheduled, it was 4 fights because they had two title fights on top of the card. With both of those having the potential to go 5 rounds, a 5th main bout wasn’t feasible because they don’t want to go late on Showtime.
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
Why on earth do people shit on Walker?
I’d say he’s “better for the sport” than most fighters – he may not be an elite fighter, but he’s better-spoken and more respected than most anyone else. Better that he is a public face than they guy who appears to taunt his defeated opponent’s wife.
Also, Strikeforce is dedicated to putting on entertaining fights – with the exception of HW, they stand no chance of having a dominant fighter in any weight class, so they do what they do best – fun fights. Yes, I’d rather see legit prospects on the main card, getting their brand to the world, but SF has a limited window to impress its masters with ratings and dollars. Walker is the easiest way to do that.
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired. -Jonathan Swift
by Scott C. Broussard on Jan 30, 2011 4:53 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Better that he is a public face than they guy who appears to taunt his defeated opponent’s wife.
That’s not what happened at all. That didn’t even cross my mind when I watched it, if it somehow came across that way that’s on Showtime production team bad cutting, and people’s imagination.
by Horselover Fat on Jan 30, 2011 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
Definitely Showtime's production team.
What a dumb idea that was. Cut away from Nick yelling at someone in the crowd straight to a shot of an emotional Cyborg with people surrounding her. Wonder what people will think.
I know less about recognizing true fighting talent than George W. Bush does about finding weapons of mass destruction. From now on if I wanna pick a winner I will ask the-gentle-way.
by lowellthehammer on Jan 30, 2011 5:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I know that’s not what happened, hence “appears”. But when the crew cuts from Diaz yelling “Fuck you, bitch”, to a crying Ms. Cyborg while Werdum tries to block the camera, that’s the impression people will get, especially given Diaz’s known volatility.
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired. -Jonathan Swift
by Scott C. Broussard on Jan 30, 2011 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, lol, when you break it down like that I guess I can see why some would make that connection. I didn’t realize they went straight from him saying that to a shot of her crying. Again that’s now how I interpreted it, but I understand what you’re saying. Bad editing.
by Horselover Fat on Jan 30, 2011 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
Check this out - the mind is a weird thing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuleshov_Effect
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired. -Jonathan Swift
by Scott C. Broussard on Jan 30, 2011 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
Something like that happened to me just last week at work. Two different documents had come back to me, with the exact same six digit control number, which isn’t supposed to happen. I was staring myself blind at them, going back and forth between the numbers, trying to figure out what had happened. It was only when I went over to a colleague and asked for advice that he pointed out that they were in fact different numbers – one of them began with an 8, and one with a 6. As soon as he said that I saw it myself of course, and felt like a complete fool. I guess my mind had just from quickly clancing at the numbers decided that they were the same, and then it couldn’t spot the error until someone else corrected me.
by Horselover Fat on Jan 30, 2011 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
Now prepare for a total mindfuck:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypd5txtGdGw
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired. -Jonathan Swift
by Scott C. Broussard on Jan 30, 2011 6:24 PM EST up reply actions
This sounds like some Scanner Darkly shit
How many gears are on a ten speed bike? How many hits of death are you taking a day?
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
Memories are completely malleable.
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired. -Jonathan Swift
by Scott C. Broussard on Jan 30, 2011 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
He said "fuck you, bitch"
to the person that threw a beer on him.
by Austin Martin on Jan 30, 2011 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
That’s what I later guessed.
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired. -Jonathan Swift
by Scott C. Broussard on Jan 30, 2011 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
Better that he is a public face than they guy who appears to taunt his defeated opponent’s wife.
That’s not what happened at all.
That’s what everyone who I was watching the fight with assumed. So while that might not be what happened, that’s definitely what appeared to have happened.
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on Jan 30, 2011 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
Well, that’s too bad, especially as Diaz has been really respectful against Cyborg both before and after this fight.
Again, that’s not how it appeared to me while watching, but I guess it obviously did to a some people, and I can understand why. Unfortunate choice by the production crew.
by Horselover Fat on Jan 30, 2011 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
I was definitely wondering why they kept cutting from Diaz acting a fool to a crying Lady Cyborg. But after the Nashville Brawl all I have to say is fuck CBS/Showtime. That they edited it together the way they did last night is not surprising to me in the slightest. They’ll play up anything they think will get an emotional reaction from their viewers (which will in turn generate ratings)- even a negative one.
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on Jan 30, 2011 6:05 PM EST up reply actions
Class Act
Herschel is a great ambassador for the sport. He doesn’t have delusions of granduer and brings eyeballs to the sport of MMA. Stay Classy Herschel
I dunno...
Thinking he’s going to come back and play in the NFL is the definition of delusions of grandeur.
I'm with you on Walker
but I do think it’s kind of amusing that your writings today include a defense of Walker, who is in his late 40s and has no future relevancy in the sport, and a slam on Roger Gracie who is in his late 20s and is a threat to strangle anyone on earth at 205.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
Jesus H. Christ
It’s not a “slam” on Gracie. It’s a slam on people who are elevating Gracie beyond where he deserves to be.
Gracie’s a sick fucking talent, but not as sick as some are making him out to be.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
by Luke Thomas on Jan 30, 2011 5:03 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Gracie took down a D1 all american whose known for grinding guys with his wrestling
after he was beating him standing up. The hype is warranted at this point.
by Austin Martin on Jan 30, 2011 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
Just wondering, what people have been doing that?
by Horselover Fat on Jan 30, 2011 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
Why the fuck does everyone on this site operate on extremes?
Anything at all negative = worst shit imaginable. Anything at all positive = you’re an unrealistic dick-hugging cunt. It doesn’t make any sense.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter | SB Nation Bay Area | SaberCats Examiner | Niners Nation | FTF Mod
by James Brady on Jan 30, 2011 9:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Where on earth did I say that?
I just found it amusing that Luke took time today to laud the career of Herschel Walker and criticize the career of Roger Gracie. Just a funny juxtaposition to me.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Jan 30, 2011 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
and a slam on Roger Gracie
Well, that’s an extreme. I don’t see how you can read that post and come up with the word “slam.” Still, talking about why Walker is fighting lower competition and talking about how people overrate Roger Gracie are two entirely different things.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter | SB Nation Bay Area | SaberCats Examiner | Niners Nation | FTF Mod
by James Brady on Jan 30, 2011 11:37 PM EST up reply actions
They are not completely different things
Roger Gracie has 3 professional fights. Herschel Walker has 2 professional fights. Roger Gracie is facing legitimate (if slightly old) guys, and beating them in brilliant fashion. Walker is beating cans. It is somewhat funny that on the same day, the same author wrote an article critical of Gracie (who has a far bright future in the sport) and supportive of Walker (who is essentially a feel-good sideshow).
In reading Luke’s Gracie article, it just seemed weird to me that he was putting artificial limits on what the guy can potentially accomplish, given how young and inexperienced he is in MMA. With his skill set, I’d be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt, and see if he can put together a good striking game to go with is insane grappling. I actually agree with the Walker article, but I think the Gracie article was a little harsh, and could be reasonably described as a slam.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Jan 31, 2011 8:25 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
It's all about
How people are reacting. People are acting as though Gracie is a legit title threat right now. Can he be? Of course. But he has a porous striking game that he’s going to need to patch up before he’s a legit threat. Let’s not put the kart before the horse. I’m looking forward to seeing Gracie develop.
I’ll give this a rec.
I don’ t really agree with you on what Luke was sayiing about Gracie (He compared him to Yahya, who is good, but will never be the best), but I can respect that you actually, coherently, broke down Lukes article.
Most are just calling him a hater, and saying that its crazy for saying such a thing about Gracie.
But I can see all your points…
Yeah, and it's totally a "slam." You're right, Luke is such a fucking hater.
I hope he gets banned. :]
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
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My opinion:
Herschel Walker is not the worst possible mainstream representative of the sport.
More eyes are good.
Therefore, Walker is doing the sport a huge service by presenting the sport to people who may or may not be all that familiar with it, especially football fans. This is wildly different from someone like Kimbo, who didn’t have any athletic credibility.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
ET Son- formerly known as emoney. Effing hax.
Allow me to coin a new term to describe the ongoing Herschel Walker experiment
He’s a Feel Good Freak Show.
by smoogy2 on Jan 30, 2011 5:20 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
I like it.
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
by Neil Manich on Jan 30, 2011 5:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Like I said yesterday
Clearly Couture vs. Walker is the answer. Let’s do co-promotion, bitches.
Fire Gus "What's a screen?" Bradley.
Well, they do have Ryan Couture under contract. Pump him up to a main card Walker fight instead of Challengers card. Next best thing?
by Horselover Fat on Jan 30, 2011 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
This is the equivalent of putting Vera’s wife against Couture’s ex-wife and calling it “Vera v Couture”
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jan 30, 2011 5:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It would probably be better than the male version of that wretched fight
Fire Gus "What's a screen?" Bradley.
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired. -Jonathan Swift
by Scott C. Broussard on Jan 30, 2011 5:39 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
She did what her husband couldn't
OH SNAP!
Meet me on Monsta Island. Where the girls look good and the MC's be Wildin'.
Also, follow me on Twitter @DeoWade
That’s a great idea, man! Oh, wait a sec..
Honestly, I think it’s real silly that they have Ryan Couture just because his dad is famous. That doesn’t at all make me any more interested in seeing him make his first pro fights than any other aspiring fighter coming up. And I wasn’t a fan of that female Couture – Vera fight either.
by Horselover Fat on Jan 30, 2011 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
Oh shit the Strikeforce PR team
just shit themselves. Subo you have no idea what you have just unleashed on the MMA world by typing that sentence.
Pardon my language but..
Couldn’t fu*kin agree more..I think it is awesome what he is doing and he is bringing a lot of awareness to the sport. The man speaks sooo well it’s unreal. He is doing a great thing by taking it seriously and going out there and proving it isn’t some novelty act. And all he can talk about is getting back into training, helping others and working to get better.
After last night, I’m much more excited to see him fight again than I was after his first fight. I had a huge smile on my face when he was giving his post-fight interview with Mauro. A real genuine and humble person that I hope to see a lot more of in MMA (wether it be fighting or something else like cornering a fighter) I know he mentioned a lot about helping up and coming AKA fighters on there way towards being champions
I’m just astonished by some of the daggers thrown Walker’s way from fans for night fighting top competition or getting a shot at the big show when it’s only his 2nd fight.
Be like water making its way through cracks. Do not be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find a way round or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves. - Bruce Lee
I don't care about Walker.
I know he is there for casual eyes only. I would rather see some up and comers fighting than him. But oh well. There are plenty of times where I’ve sat through fights on UFC cards that I did not want to watch.
I hate the bigger name excuse.
SO if Shaquile Oneil, a black belt, and student of MMA decided ot come in, he should get a main card fight against a bum because he has a big name?
Do you not understand how this makes MMA look? It looke like an easy sport to be a part of.
Are you serious?
If Shaq wanted to fight, he ABSO_FUCKING_LUTELY deserves a main card fight. I can’t even fathom how you could make that argument
by Austin Martin on Jan 30, 2011 5:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And that's why MMA is becoming a joke
This is my point.
If Shaq randomly decided to play professional football
and signed up for the UFL for one game .. the NFL Network, ESPN2, etc would be picking up on it to see it. Same concept. Celebs fight in boxing, etc. Quit being so dramatic.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
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This is an awesome idea.
I really, really want to see this happen.
Fight Rankings - I don't know more about MMA than you, but I'll certainly pretend that I do.
He played Shaq Fu when he was little?
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on Jan 30, 2011 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
That's obvious,
but a lot of us do. Go back to watching WWE
You must hate Brock Lesnar then
Also all MMA clothing. Promos for “100 Ways to Die” or whatever random Jason Statham movie being ran ad nauseum on every fight night, HDNet showing uncensored Girls Gone Wild as the lead in to Dynamite…
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
Everyone should hate MMA clothing
Its safe to say that without Playboy we wouldn't have MMA as we know it today. - Jonathan Snowden
by Chris Hall on Jan 31, 2011 2:59 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Unless you're personally sponsored by the company
you probably shouldn’t wear it in public
Its safe to say that without Playboy we wouldn't have MMA as we know it today. - Jonathan Snowden
Also for whatever it's worth (it doesn't matter at all)
I’ve never been a fan of wrestling. I’ve also never been a fan of tennis which is equally irrelevant.
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
What a shitty statement.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter | SB Nation Bay Area | SaberCats Examiner | Niners Nation | FTF Mod
How does a 7 footer with a black belt fighting in MMA “make it look easy to be a part of”?
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
If you don’t have that knowledge, then it looks to you like any superstar can waltz right onto the big stage.
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired. -Jonathan Swift
by Scott C. Broussard on Jan 30, 2011 5:53 PM EST up reply actions
Particularly when they’re fighting the likes of Nagy and Carson. People say, well, James Toney was a freakshow, Kimbo Slice was a freakshow, etc. Toney was sent in to get retired. Kimbo was given real fighters to deal with (although I can’t shake the impression that Houston Alexander laid down in that fight). I suppose it’s a good thing if a big name athlete has the guts to get in the ring and try his hand in MMA, and if it’s a guy like Shaq, then it’s gonna be a big deal. But for me, one of the most attractive attributes of this sport is the honesty of two guys who are on a similar skill level, using all of it to determine who is the better martial artist. When you start setting up these surreal match-ups involving celebrity names and guys who don’t appear to even want to be there — and that to the uninitiated may represent the reality of the sport — it becomes problematic. But perhaps I should step back, not treat this subject quite as seriously, and just have fun with the relatively few fights of this order that come along. And I would, but it’s not fun to watch amateur MMA on the main card of one of the sports few largest promotions. And its terrible to think that these things will become a rule rather than an exception. Thanks for listening, I’ll leave a check with the receptionist.
by Charlie Custer on Jan 31, 2011 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, because that's all it takes.
Jesus christ, how old are you? I can’t stand these noobs. This is my point though, the perception of what it takes to be a PROFESSIONAL mma fighter through the eyes of casuals, and noobs. It’s scary, and it’s spreading.
And I have no intentions of arguing with you anymore.
If you honestly think it would be okay to allow Shaq to receive his pro card and just get a fight on the big stage; you don’t deserve any more of my breath.
Beer Monster...
you have been overwhelmingly entertaining as a mod. Keep up the good work.
Its safe to say that without Playboy we wouldn't have MMA as we know it today. - Jonathan Snowden
I’m 32, hardly a “noob”, and you seem to lack the understanding that MMA is a sport and a product of entertainment that people pay for. If you think the general public would look at Shaq in a cage, after learning about his martial arts training, and think “holy shit, I can do that too!”…I don’t know what to tell you.
And I’m not saying Shaq DESERVES to be in the cage at all. I’m arguing with your ridiculous idea that it makes it look easy for anyone to do, or there’s some sort of damage to the credibility of the sport.
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
Just being a black belt, and having some training doesn't get you
on the big stage or a main card. It shouldn’t. Do you understand that? Yes, it makes it look easy. It looks like anyone can join if they want. All you need is a black belt in something.
First off, acting like you can buy a black belt in the corner store is ridiculous. Second, if you wanna be the kid in the corner treating MMA like pure sport and acting like there’s not an entertainment aspect to it, go ahead. But that’s not the way it works, whether you like it or not. Starpower absolutely gets you to the front of the line whether you like it or not, because the of the structure of the highest echelons of the sport.
his doesn’t mean Joe down the street is going to be main-carding a PPV. If he does think he can be an MMA fighter because he saw Shaq or Herschel Walker in a cage, cool. He signs up for an amateur event, gets his ass handed to him, and goes back to his couch. At least he’s interested in the sport.
You’re certainly entitled to your point of view, as am I. But don’t walk in here calling people noobs and telling them to go back to wrestling when you know absolutely zero about them.
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
by Tim Burke on Jan 30, 2011 6:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
"First off, acting like you can buy a black belt in the corner store is ridiculous."
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired. -Jonathan Swift
by Scott C. Broussard on Jan 30, 2011 6:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
So a black belt is all it takes?
Alert the presses, I have a lot of friends who are going to be star MMA fighters. Holy shit. Hell Millions of people are going to be pro MMA fighters who deserve the main card. Wow
I'M RUBBER YOUR GLUE, BRO
That’s you That’s what you sound like. “noob.”
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
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Please tell me you used your first Rule #4 on this guy
Its safe to say that without Playboy we wouldn't have MMA as we know it today. - Jonathan Snowden
This guy is ridiculous.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter | SB Nation Bay Area | SaberCats Examiner | Niners Nation | FTF Mod
That's silly.
Now if you invite Rolles Gracie to your gym for two weeks…
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Yes, and I'll keep repeating my view.
“But that’s not the way it works, whether you like it or not. Starpower absolutely gets you to the front of the line whether you like it or not, because the of the structure of the highest echelons of the sport
And that’s why maybe our sport is easier than I thought. If anyone with a big name can get in, no matter what their credentials are, maybe I’ve been wasting my time on a sport that really isn’t that legit.
Interesting, since you just a) established credentials yourself (a black belt). That eliminates like 97% of “big stars” right there.
My point isn’t that the sport is legit, my point is that you have to take into account that it’s driven by revenue and things like Toney/Couture or Walker/Carson are going to happen in a growing sport that, unfortunately, is still a niche sport to the general public and desperately craves more attention.
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
That doesn't make it right,
And I have a right to complain about it, regardless if people are paying attention or not.
And no, it doesn’t make it legit to have people with little experiance getting big fights. It minimizes the legitimacy. And Let’s wait for the ratings of last nights fight to see if having Walker actually made a big difference. I doubt it did.
I doubt it did.
It did. An entire nation is going through football withdrawal this weekend.
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jan 30, 2011 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
This Pro Bowl crap is brutal
And I hate FOX’s commentators. Billick is awful.
Fire Gus "What's a screen?" Bradley.
Didn't even try
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for CagesideSeats.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jan 30, 2011 8:35 PM EST up reply actions
Complain all you want. You have a right to an opinion like anyone else does. But don’t demean other commenters while you’re doing it.
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
by Tim Burke on Jan 30, 2011 6:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Point taken
I’ll try not too, but it’s hard sometimes.
I feel like just not replying to people like this is the easiest solution. Instead of having 100 replies of nonsense online pissing contest bullshit from bored people.
by Austin Martin on Jan 30, 2011 6:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
well
I agree that it did turn into a pissing contest, and we were both trying to get the last word. But I stand by my convictions, and I feel strongly about this topic. I think it hurts MMA, and the perception of MMA. And I won’t back down from that.
Comparing Toney/Couture and Walker/Carson is apples and oranges. If Toney is the “freak” component of that match-up, then he was essentially sent in to be educated in and retired from the sport. Walker, who is the novel attraction in his particular fight, is given guys who, even at his age and with his inexperience, he is meant to easily run over, all to continue a narrative that works for a promotion to gain exposure and sell tickets. There’s a difference in what is going on with these particular match-ups.
When we’re told that all of this is “good” for MMA and that as fans, we should be happy about it, it makes sense that some will bristle. It’s because when this kind of pageantry is accepted and promoted, there’s a fear that it will become much more common. Imagine tuning into MMA and not seeing the best fighters, but only the most marketable, only the biggest “stars.” We’re not there, of course. And Walker’s presence does not by itself represent a trend in that direction…but speaking for myself, I don’t necessarily see his career, particularly if he continues to fight the kind of guys he’s been given to run through, being an overwhelmingly positive force for the future of the sport.
by Charlie Custer on Jan 31, 2011 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
You’re only now realizing that mma is not 100% a legit sport?
by John Nash on Jan 30, 2011 6:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I stopped at “how old are you”, it reminded me arguments I used to have when I was a teenager. Then he added “noob”, and I saw myself even younger arguing super nintendo vs megadrive..
Boys becoming men...Men becoming wolves
by spectaa on Jan 30, 2011 6:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah. I’ll give him one chance to follow up with some eloquence, then I’ll give up.
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
You'll get none of that from me
So maybe you shouldn’t follow up
That’s basically my only gripe with this Walker experiment, and other famous athletes trying MMA out. It makes it seem to people that going in and cagefighting is something anyone can do. Fat, old, retired from your main sport? Cagefight! Makes the whole thing seem like kind of a joke.
But overall I’d say he’s a good ambassador for the sport.
by Horselover Fat on Jan 30, 2011 5:53 PM EST up reply actions
However, if other athletes try it and get beaten down, then either a) MMA will gain the respect of other sports fans by seeing how difficult it is to compete in, or b) everyone will say MMA is more luck than skill, or else why wouldn’t the legit athletes win?
I would love for MMA to be mainstream, but part of me also doubts that it will ever be that popular because its very nature is offensive to many.
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired. -Jonathan Swift
by Scott C. Broussard on Jan 30, 2011 5:57 PM EST up reply actions
As for a), that doesn’t happen if you keep feeding them cans, and I don’t think most non-fans will be able to make that distinction. b), I don’t know what to respond there. Hopefully they would realize that it takes lots of practice, like everything else.
Agreed. Just to raise the level of pay and amount of incoming athletes, number of events, and so on. But because of it’s violent nature I don’t see it getting any higher than a certain level.
by Horselover Fat on Jan 30, 2011 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
Eh, I don't see the use of Walker
Especially as he hasn’t really paid dividends. All the attention he brings from non-MMA media is attention to himself only, since none of this coveted sports media can be bothered to mention ‘MMA’ or ‘Strikeforce’, with the bare minimum only a couple will do is say ‘Ultimate Fighting’. In that regards the attention Walker has brought has been worthless.
Well, i'm sure there are people who've never watched an mma fight...
tune into one just to see Walker. And hey, they might stick around.
He’s doing a deed, imo.
"The world would truly be a better place if you didn’t exsist. You should just lean over the plate and take one for the team, run into oncoming traffic or something." -S l c Ranger HE MAD! The internet is serious business.
by TooLegitToQuit on Jan 30, 2011 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
If people are intrigued by Walker they will find him.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 30, 2011 6:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Ehh, I think the majority will settle on what sports media coverage give them
I can’t see many going out of their way to check out Walker on Showtime, especially if they don’t already have Showtime.
Sports media talks about Walker but not MMA, that’s the sports media most will look at especially if its a source they’ve grown accustomed to and comfortable with. I can’t see them looking for Walker news outside of that zone.
by KJ Gould on Jan 30, 2011 7:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Case and point: the biggest news from his appearance on the conference call last Monday was that he was “contemplating” a return to football at age 48.
His participation in yesterday’s card was mentioned as the “this is why we’re talking about Herschel Walker,” but the focus was still on the more mainstream sport that is easier for mainstream media to play with and a greater audience is interested in.
by E. Spencer Kyte on Jan 30, 2011 9:16 PM EST up reply actions
it needed saying,,, again...
and definitively.
thanks for this piece Luke, its insightful of the basment of mma which often remains nebulous and unacknowledged.
Walker, frankly – is nothing short of amazing and i am happy for those who can appreciate the spirit of his gesture.
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
For Once I Agree with You
It had to happen some time, right?
Walker has been great for the sport and has changed my opinion of his place on the main card since he first fought; while I disliked that his debut meant Hieron and Riggs got bumped, he’s the bigger name bringing bigger eyes to the sport.
The question I have now is what happens next? While I agree he shouldn’t be fighting elite competition, he also should be taking on guys who aren’t one loss removed from a nine-year hiatus from the sport. Test him against some of those regional unknowns who are at least training and competing routinely.
by E. Spencer Kyte on Jan 30, 2011 6:04 PM EST reply actions
There is nothing wrong with Walker fighting these handpicked push overs, he doesn’t have a MMA career he is just someone helping to draw some interest to the sport. If he gets some more people to pay attention to the sport then that’s a great use for him but lets also keep our heads in reality here too. Walker has fought guys who were handpicked to make Walker look good and Walker is never going to have a future in the sport like Brendan Schaub has. For Walker it’s all about getting the attention now because he may only fight a couple of more times. There is no career to build and mold and there is no future for him as a fighter so you might as well try to get the most out of the here and now with him. It’s a shame Marcus Jones retired because former NFL player vs former NFL player in a MMA cage would be something Strikeforce could sell.
I disagree
At least in part. Many pointed out when Walker did interviews that Strikeforce was barely mentioned. The Dallas Morning News said he was fighting for the UFC.
It is good for mainstream coverage of MMA but I don’t think it led to who was trending on Twitter that much. It was a slow sports night, and because of no other MMA events most of the MMA writers were covering it and tweeting.
Lawler was also trending when he KO’d Lindland and Walker had nothing to do with that.
As a fan of freakshow fights
I am not opposed at all to Walker or Kimbo or Toney. They all serve a purpose. Just like there is room enough in the sport for legitimacy and spectacle, there is room on one or two cards a year to have a guy like Walker bring some more eyeballs to the sport. Most of the people against this are Hardcore fans who like MMA to remain a niche sport just so they can say they belong to something outside of the mainstream. Like Fathers who can’t accept their daughters are no longer virgins, they need to get over it.
by pud333 on Jan 30, 2011 6:58 PM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Big Picture, Fellas
Herschel’s bout is a business decision that Coker makes to try and maximise the profit/revenue/survival prospects of his promotion, and the total viewership.
1) Total viewership/interest in MMA increases the pie for the whole industry, and by extension, the opportunity for ALL fighters to eventually make decent money
2) Improved financial outcomes for Strikeforce mean more cash to hire fighters, finance shows, promote the shows, pay the fighters decently etc.
3) If Strikeforce makes sub-optimal business decisions e.g. not using Herschel to his maximum potential draw, and eventually folds in the face of strong UFC opposition, the market is worse for fighters. Competing promotions create jobs and increases fighter pay.
4) Stop whinging! Fighting on the undercard for Herschel gets you eyeballs and an opportunity to blow people away. They might say “Gee Herschel might be sloppy but ain’t doing bad for an old guy, but look at this Subo guy’s skills! He’s the real deal!”
The real takeaway
Is that more people should watch low-level MMA. It’s generally confusing, frequently appalling, usually brief, consistently violent, and all around awesome.
Eh
I understand that Walker is important to Strikeforce on some level in the same way Michael Jordan was important to his AAA ballclub in baseball. That doesn’t mean I have to enjoy watching him get built up on cans on the main card. The way I see it, you get one of two things. Either you get babied and built up by getting fed a few cans first, or you get to be on the main card right away and you get thrown straight into the shark tank (ala Brock Lesnar).
Now, I don’t hate Walker for this (it makes sense at his age to take it slow), and I don’t blame Strikeforce for doing it (it makes perfect business sense). I’m just saying that I don’t have to enjoy watching these snuff matches where the guy hasn’t fought for 10 years and looks intimidated as hell by Walker and lets himself get backed into the cage.
You don’t put Walker up against a legit contender right away, but I think they could do better than Scott Carson.

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