Why Jens Pulver Doesn't Belong Anywhere Near a Cage in 2011
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 25, 2011 10:06 AM EST
in MMA Editorial
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Jens Pulver's win this weekend was met with celebration worthy of a Super Bowl championship. It was trumpeted on Twitter, liked on Facebook, and written about on websites far and near. Even the top broadcaster on the web, MMA Fighting's Ariel Helwani, included Pulver on his MMA Hour this week.
With due respect, what the hell are these people thinking about?
Jens Pulver's return to the cage isn't something to be celebrated. It was a disgrace and a farce. It was bad enough when the UFC brought in an unknown Joe Lauzon to help prop Pulver up for a return match with B.J. Penn a few years ago. Even way back when people knew Pulver wasn't a match for the best competition in the world, and Lauzon sent the entire company reeling with a surprise knockout win. But to bring in a can with a 6-19 record to fight the former world champion? And then crow about it like it was a worthy accomplishment? That's just sad.
I like Jens Pulver. I've enjoyed talking to him and think he's got a roguish charm. It's a shame that the UFC decided it couldn't use him as a broadcaster, cutting him loose in favor of Stephan Bonnar, just another way to get back at Pulver for his decision to part ways with the company nine years ago. I understand, too, that a man has to make a living. But Jens Pulver shouldn't be anywhere near the cage right now. It's unconscionable.
Before beating Mike Lindquist at XFO: 38, a fighter apparently on the Shannon Ritch path to MMA success, Pulver had lost six in a row. And we're not talking hard fought and competitive losses like his WEC 34 fight with Urijah Faber. He hadn't even made out of the first round in two years. Jens Pulver doesn't belong in the cage in 2011. He's either going to fight in mock competitions like the one with Lindquist or else he's going to get hurt. No one wants to see that.
It's been a hard time for Pulver. His gym in Idaho struggled to get off the ground and his obsession with World of Warcraft, an online multiplayer video game, became something friends described as more of an addiction than a pleasure. They would describe seeing a Pulver who looked more like a ghost than a man, pale as the fallen snow, unable to pull himself from his computer.
His support system, like his career, also crumbled from beneath him in recent years. His relationship with UFC President Dana White hasn't been the same since his return. He threw long time mentor Pat Miletich under the bus, claiming Miletich wasn't responsible for the success of his top fighters in the dawn of the Zuffa age. A return to the Miletich gym in Iowa didn't go well and Pulver ended up with Jeff Curran in Illinois.
If it was any other sport, except for boxing, I would have no problem with Pulver continuing on the regional level. But this is MMA: the brain trauma and wear on your body happens whether you are in the Octagon in front of ten thousand people or in Woodstock, Illinois. Pulver is at risk every time he fights. Even against Lindquist, a fighter no one had heard of before and will likely never hear of again, Pulver looked strangely vulnerable. Former boxing great Evander Holyfield was involved in a similar fight this weekend in West Virginia. It didn't look like a world champion in with a bum. It looked like two struggling local fighters going at it.
Cheering Pulver's win, encouraging him to continue, helping him perpetrate this fraud: it's not doing him any good. The man is 36 years old. It's time to move on and find a new way to get through life. Delaying the inevitable, scrambling his brain a little more before moving back into the real world - that's not the answer. Let's celebrate Jens Pulver for all the memories he's given us in the cage and the ring. But let's make it clear it isn't where he belongs anymore. If you posted praise, congratulated him on Twitter, if you watched on YouTube, you were a part of his continued sad demise. Let's not do it anymore. It's time for us to move on - and it's time for Jens Pulver as well.
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I love Jens Pulver
I don’t want to see him fight anymore. I don’t want his career to become a punch line.
"So, while you're taking a break from the UFC, hanging out at some lame party that your girlfriend dragged you to, I'll man up and watch some goddamn fights like a goddamn adult."
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by Worldisart on Jan 25, 2011 10:11 AM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Call of Duty addiction > World of Warcraft addiction.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Jan 25, 2011 10:15 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I’ve never played. I can’t imagine having the time. I have a job, two kids, this, writing two books – I’m pretty busy.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 25, 2011 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
No but I wish I could have.
I wonder watches avatars name would be?
by Brandon Degaph on Jan 25, 2011 10:20 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Damn iPhone...
I meant " what his" not " watches".
by Brandon Degaph on Jan 25, 2011 10:29 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I actually remember him answering that in an interview I read once.
He said he was a troll. Why do I remember that? I have no idea.
by Brent Ducharme on Jan 25, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
I’ve played. It’s really not nearly as addictive as people make it out to be. It’s fun, sure, but unless you have some serious addictive-personality problems it really doesn’t take as much time out of your life as they say it does.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
ET Son- formerly known as emoney. Effing hax.
Video game addiction is serious
WoW might not have been addicting to you, but to dismiss it as only addictive to those with serious addictive-personality problems is myopic. People laugh off video game addiction, but it really does ruin lives, and probably does so on a much larger and widespread scale than people realize. I know plenty of guys who can knock off 3-6 hours playing Madden on career mode or WoW or whatever without batting an eye. With work and family demands, that 3-6 hours has to make inroads somewhere.
by Pantherhare on Jan 25, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't mean it as a slight.
Just that I’ve spent a lot of time in the world of video games. I regularly play 4-6 hours a day, when I can make the time, and I was just trying to offer my opinion on it. Video game addiction is serious, and it affects a lot of people. I might have been a little too flippant with the choice of words, but my stance is the same.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
ET Son- formerly known as emoney. Effing hax.
Wasn't trying to jump down your throat
Sorry if it came off that way. Point is, addiction doesn’t have to be all-consuming to be deleterious. And not to judge, but if you’re regularly spending 4-6 hours a day on video games and you’re not a retiree or something, you might want to examine the impact it has on your life (coming from someone who used to do the same).
Certainly it can be dangerous
For myself, someone who is a full-time university student, and who works 30+ hours a week at his job, I spend a lot of time tightly wound into very serious types of things. When I have time off, I tend to use a lot of it to wind down with video games. (Hence 4-6 hours when I can get it)
The caveat, I suppose, is that I don’t have the booming social life of most college students, but I’ve never really felt the need to party, so for me it’s more a personal choice than a loss.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
ET Son- formerly known as emoney. Effing hax.
flippant .. myopic.. deleterious ..
Damn u guys made made me pull out the old dictionary.. my brain hurts.. just bleed baby lol..
by woodson28 on Jan 25, 2011 9:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
yea i don't think that is what he was trying to say
Your average run-of-the-mill player is not an addict. There are 11 million some-odd subscribers to WoW and much like in the real world, only a very small portion of them are addicts. It’s the person, not the game.
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by Cory Braiterman on Jan 25, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
Depends on your definition of addiction
As I wrote above, something doesn’t need to be all-consuming in order to be harmful. Even if Jens was just a “run-of-the-mill player” that played only 4-6 hours a day on a regular basis, that could have a significant impact on someone trying to get a new business off the ground.
sure
there are TONS of people who don’t play 4-6 hours a day however. “Run-of-the-mill” players aren’t playing 25-40 hrs per week. They play 4 hours a day, 2-3days a week. Or 2 per 5x a week. etc. Not saying this is Jens’ case, because from the stories, it apparently was not, however it’s just as unfair to lump everyone who plays wow in as an addict.
Responsible people are just that, as are irresponsible people.
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by Cory Braiterman on Jan 25, 2011 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
5 Creepy Ways Video Games Are Trying to Get You Addicted
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
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by Scott C. Broussard on Jan 25, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah video games are meant to be addictive
But a lot of these types psychological concepts are used in all sorts of different media and marketing. A good video game, is by its nature, an addictive game. But the average person will be able to control themselves, and will have the ability to stop whenever they have to.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
ET Son- formerly known as emoney. Effing hax.
When I saw that video of his win the other day, I didn't know whether to cheer or cry.
As a Pulver fan, I was happy for him, but it was sad to see that. So fucking sad. Pulver has to realize it’s over, and that getting a 9-5 job isn’t the end of the world. Being a man isn’t about going out on your shield, regardless of costs. Being a man is about knowing when it’s over and walking away with dignity. There’s no nobility in poverty.
by pud333 on Jan 25, 2011 10:20 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
please jens
hang it up.
arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics... even if you win, you're still retarded!
by tshabalala on Jan 25, 2011 10:30 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I hope he takes this
as his “win” to go out on and hangs it up. He’s had a great career, but his time has come and passed. Also, Shonie Carter and NYBA should be staying out of the game at this point as well, instead of fighting each other.
his gym stuggled to get off the ground?
Dude, you act like the gyms failure was his fault because of video games. Have you really talked to Jens? If you did you’d know that the clothing company and gym DRIVEN failed because of shady business partners dicking the man over.
It didn’t fail because on Jens, it failed because people trying to make a buck off his name screwed him royally.
I swear man…
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I have talked to Jens. More importantly, I’ve talked to other people around him.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 25, 2011 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
So you’re of the opinion that it’s his fault? Thats exactly opposite of the story I got from Jens.
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by joeshowradio on Jan 25, 2011 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
It doesn’t really matter to me. Lots of people have an excuse ready for every failure. It’s irrelevant to the central point.
I will say this: MMA reporting is a dangerous business if you are a fighter mark or believe everything someone tells you.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 25, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
I think it’s complete relevant since you made it a point to include it in your piece. Also, now it sounds like you’re really not sure.
Saying something like that really is a big deal, it speaks volumes about the person. There’s a big difference in having your company fail because of an addiction you have versus having crooked business partners screw you over.
I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
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by joeshowradio on Jan 25, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
I didn’t say his company failed because of World of Warcraft. They were both things that derailed in his life in the last several years.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 25, 2011 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
His gym in Idaho struggled to get off the ground and his obsession with World of Warcraft, an online multiplayer video game, became something friends described as more of an addiction than a pleasure.
And, not because of
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by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 25, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
The two aren’t mutually exclusive anyway. Maybe if he hadn’t been raiding Molten Core he would have had the time to keep his partners from screwing him over.
Personally, my armchair diagnosis would be that Jens played a bunch of WoW because his life was falling apart around him; the alternate world where none of that matters can be very attractive to people suffering depression because of that sort of thing.
"an excellent example of why most MMA "journalism" is a joke. Pseudonyms like "toxic" and shitty writing like that dopey article"--- Joe Rogan.
One quick point...
I have to ask – where’s the outrage and concern for Lindquist’s safety? If fighter safety is the angle, then Lindquist is in far worse danger than Pulver. This is a guy who’s now lost over 20 fights, many of them brutally. I agree Pulver should probably retire, but to connote that his safety is more important than Lindquist’s because he’s a public figure is, I think, dangerous. The real issue, to me, is that MMA continues to allow people who have no business fighting back in the cage. This goes for Pulver, Lindquist, Valentijn Overeem and countless others.
It’s hard to develop concern for every fighter on Earth. I’ve seen guys with no business fighting literally 100’s of times, I’ve got friends who have picked up a slur from fighting in just over 2 years of knowing them. But a site this size has to have a concern for fighters people have an emotional attachment to over guys no one knows.
This sport is brutal, and as much as we pretend otherwise…it’s not healthy or “safe.”
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by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 25, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
True,
but i thinik my point was only that if the concern is over fighter safety, the problem is with MMA, not Jens. If proper physical exams are in place and Jens can pass them, by all means keep fighting. Who am I to tell him to stop just because he’s damaging an image of a fighter I grew up watching? Unfortunately, I doubt Jens was required to have a scan or any significant exam beyond bloodwork for the fight. I think the piece touched on this a bit. I just wanted to expound rather than talk about poor Jens.
Yeah, the Illinois commission has some serious issues to work through.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 25, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
Great Point
Instead of writing an article on one fighter, perhaps there should be a discussion on fighter saftey and pre fight testing.
I think Jens could be used as the example but I’m sure there are tons of fighters out there doing much worse.
In the end, it’s not our position to tell anyone what they can or cannot do to make a buck, but if a commission were to step in and show evidence of what happens from repeated trauma to the head and body and it’s long term consequences they would then have the power to revoke a guy’s ability to put himself in danger.
Ha.
Our site is big, therefore, we care about Pulver and his safety but fuck this can named Mike Lindquist.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
by Geno Mrosko on Jan 25, 2011 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with you 100% about the celebrations of his recent win. He beat a 6-19 guy, its not like he had some sort of comeback win, they gave him an easy fight and he won. It would be nice if he saw this as a chance to go out on a little bit of a high with a win in his last fight but it looks very unlikely
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From what I've heard of his cageside commentary
…he’s a lot better than Bonnar.
I really agree with that
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by Nate Wilcox on Jan 26, 2011 12:47 AM EST up reply actions
Big Pulver Fan here.....
It would be nice if he could move on with the win and be done with it. He already accomplished more than most anybody will ever do in mma so he might as well stop now. No shame in that.
I'll say this once again...
I won’t sit around and say… Jens, you need to fight again, man… you are awesome.
But I’m not going to tell a guy to stop fighting and suggest he retire. That’s up to him, and perhaps he needs a push in the right direction. But I will never tell any of these guys to quit fighting because “they suck”. If a commission is willing to give them the go-ahead and the fighter wants to fight, okay.
It’s not up to us to say these guys need to retire. Some of these fighters simply love to fight and know nothing else. They just want to compete. Obviously, traumatic brain injuries are something I’d like to see limited, but you can’t fix stubborn. I’m not about to tell these guys to hang them up. If they want to fight their days out fighting cans at state fairs, obviously nobody can get through to the guy. That’s fine. I’ll still cheer for them because I’ve been invested in them for years.
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by Leland Roling on Jan 25, 2011 10:50 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
But I will never tell any of these guys to quit fighting because "they suck". If a commission is willing to give them the go-ahead and the fighter wants to fight, okay.
And here’s your typical fan helping ensure the fihgters he “loves” end life as cripples, either mentally or physically.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 25, 2011 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
You don’t have the right to tell anyone to quit what they love. Period. Is it the right thing to do? Certainly, but people are very stubborn. There is a reason why commission are there, to stop these guys from killing themselves.
Obviously, a support system that isn’t pushing him to continue fighting is needed as well, but some of these guys are absurdly stubborn.
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by Leland Roling on Jan 25, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
There is a reason why commission are there, to stop these guys from killing themselves.
Come on. That’s not even remotely fair or responsible.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 25, 2011 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
How is that not even remotely fair or responsible? Explain.
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by Leland Roling on Jan 25, 2011 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
Well cause
obviously it’s up to fans to regulate the sport’s safety, and not the government regulatory commissions.
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by Urijah Bieber on Jan 25, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
Because commission’s don’t care about protecting fighters and don’t. Look at the fate of boxers. Look at Holyfield fighting. Shamrock. This mismatch.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 25, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
Without the help of commissions and an increase in competence, the same shit is going to happen over and over and over till the end of time. Guys like Jens, or even worse… guys who have traumatic brain injuries who have altered judgment and probably don’t realize what they’re doing will be fighting.
The commission isn’t the end of the line. Jens needs to have naysayers or rational people around him to tell him not to continue, but that’s only the first line of defense. The commission is the last line, and it should be the most strict… which you are right, it isn’t.
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by Leland Roling on Jan 25, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
So, what’s your bone to pick here? Step one is to stop cheerleading him. That’s what he is fighting for, the attention and the rush. We can take that away and make it less palatable.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 25, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
I had no bone to pick. I stated my opinion, that’s what the comments are for. The only bone that happened to come up from the conversation was the argument about commissions.
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by Leland Roling on Jan 25, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
He is fighting because he has to
He routinely says that. Unless he is lying and really has money and just does it to do it.
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by Urijah Bieber on Jan 25, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
Well, that’s the problem though. He thinks that he has to fight when he could actually get a steady job and support his family. He probably has no real skills though, so I’m going to assume he thinks he’d be a piece of shit if he didn’t anything else.
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by Leland Roling on Jan 25, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
this
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by Urijah Bieber on Jan 25, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
How much does an MMA trainer make?
With someone of Jens’ reputation, I would think he could at least make a living, although the more he fights and loses, you’d think that he’s diminishing that earning potential.
by Pantherhare on Jan 25, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
doubt it
Shawn Tompkins never won a fight in his MMA career. 0-3 or 0-4 I believe. He seems to be doing alright.
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by Brian Hemminger on Jan 25, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
Many, if not most, work multiple jobs to support their coaching.
It’s not lucrative.
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They do have to eat though
Jens isn’t exactly skilled in things other than fighting. This was his career. What alternative is there for him? I agree fighting is dangerous, but in terms of survival, what other options are there? 8 or 10 dollar an hour job as a laborer?
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by Urijah Bieber on Jan 25, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
It’s delaying the inevitable. Now, when he does have to quit, he’ll be in even worse shape than he is now.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 25, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
He’d have made just as much (if not more) working an $8 an hour job 40 hours a week instead of training for the fight. XFO is a nice little org but they’re not exactly the kind of promotion that guys fight for to make a living.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 25, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
I wouldn’t fight in Illinois, period. We don’t have much of a commission here at all, and I’ve heard plenty of stories of corruption.
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by Leland Roling on Jan 25, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
I was at an event last year where every pro fight was canceled 10 minutes before the start of the show
Falsified medical records, faked blood tests, bounced checks.
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by Urijah Bieber on Jan 25, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
I’ve heard some pretty awful things about the Illinois commission. Some illegal, others that put the fighter’s safety at extraordinary risk. I went to an event where they didn’t even pat down fighters.
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by Leland Roling on Jan 25, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
A separate Michigan event from the one i just mentioned that I actually attended had fighters getting their hands wrapped wherever they wanted with no oversight, including guys showing up to the building already wrapped. Think about that for a second…
The fights were also ran by a local gym who scheduled their best fighters against 0-5 amateurs and would stop fights for “doctor checks” when their fighters were mounted and then restart them on the feet.
Oh, and the doctor on site? A local “diet doctor”
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by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 25, 2011 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
Jesus
Someone is going to get killed one of these days because of some shit like this.
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by Urijah Bieber on Jan 25, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
When you don’t have any oversight you can go ahead and make your guys beat the shit out of a bunch of guys who have no business being there. That’s going to make sure you look like the best gym around and make sure that people who want to train want to go to your school (they’re absolutely not the best gym in the area)
Oh, another fun thing going on at that show. One “gym” that had 2 or 3 fighters there. Was actually just a couple dudes who fought each other in their backyard and had no formal training in anything.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 25, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Did they all lose?
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by Urijah Bieber on Jan 25, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
One of them won over a guy who had no business fighting as he’d only been training for 2 months and basically last minute stepped in. They traded sloppy hillbilly punches for 30 seconds, threw a couple embarrassing knees, and then one of them fell down.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 25, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
Local events are not even fun to watch most of the time.
Unless submission via position, exhaustion, strikes from guard etc are fun to watch.
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by Urijah Bieber on Jan 25, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
Do you live in Illinois currently?
I see you root for the right teams based on your profile. :)
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by Urijah Bieber on Jan 25, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Yes
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by Leland Roling on Jan 25, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
What part of the state?
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by Urijah Bieber on Jan 25, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
Central
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by Leland Roling on Jan 25, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
word?
So maybe you were at that Hive event I am talking about. Happened in 09 if I recall.
Peoria area? Bloomington?
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by Urijah Bieber on Jan 25, 2011 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
maybe 08
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by Urijah Bieber on Jan 25, 2011 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
Hmmm… I don’t know. I might implicate some people and get an inquiry from the state.
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by Leland Roling on Jan 25, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
Illinois is pretty shady, Michigan is in infancy and honestly is nowhere near having its shit together. they’ve got tons of promotions up here in MI running professional shows (paying fighters and whatnot) but claiming to be an amateur event to avoid having to pay any sort of licensing fees or take any sort of state mandated measures like having doctors at ringside. There was an event down the street from me a few years back where a kid fractured his skull and they had NO medical staff on site. They said it was because there was a hospital a mile up the road so they would just take fighters there. Luckily the kid is okay but shit is dangerous up here still.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 25, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
Interesting. We have some similar problems. I actually heard that a commission member took free tickets for his whole family, they got to sit cageside where the doctors and timeskeeper were, and the promoter was forced to do this while also having to pay the licensing fees.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jan 25, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
we've only been "regulated" for like 18 months...
and that was about 4 months after regulation took effect. They made it totally clear that they were going to do things how they wanted and wouldn’t change for the state.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 25, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Jens isn't trying to fight regionally though
He still has visions of making it back to the big shows I think. Good point regardless. Unless he can Dan Severn his way to 20 victories a year maybe he’ll realize what he needs to do before long.
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"...just when you think you’ve produced your magnum opus, someone shows up and takes a giant shit in your mouth. In your mouth." - Anthony Pace
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by Urijah Bieber on Jan 25, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, and that’s a failure of Jens’ friends, family and camp. They’re letting him try to fight back into the UFC, which ain’t gonna happen.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 25, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
the problem i have with illinois and regional shows is
XFO MMA is a fighter owned company, it is owned by former WEC fighter Jeff Curran. Jens Pulver now trains and lives at Jeff Currans gym Curran Martial Arts which is how Jens got the fight against Lindquist. The card on the night of Jens fight was Curran Fighters against a bunch of guys with bad records. I used to fight in Illinois so I can tell you common practice in that state is that these promoters play favorites with teams who can get them the most sales, put these teams on cards against independently trained fighters or fighters from teams never herd of, and set the guy they favor up to look good.
The worst thing i’ve noticed is that when fighters fall off or want to gain hype they come to Illinois to fight for their regional shows, with a lax commission, they get set up against guys with a record like Lindquist’s and pretend they made this big comeback. I applaud Jens for fighting, more power to him but someone has to be that voice to tell him maybe its the time to do something else. When Liddel got knocked out by Franklin everybody called for liddels retirement, and forced him to do so, what makes Jens different?
this is like telling a chick in porn she can get out at any time and get a real job.
Sure she can leave, but she doesnt want to make $10 a hour at McDonalds or answering phones at some office.
she wants the money just like Pulver.
Pulver goes into a cage does what he’s done for the past 20 years of his life and gets a paycheck. that’s what he knows, and what he likes. try telling him to sell cars instead, I bet that goes over well
Except Pulver is hardly pulling in mad money
fighting in XFO. He’d probably make more working for $10 an hour. Not to mention, he’s gonna have to stop eventually, what’s he gonna do when he hits forty? Still got 25 years of working life ahead.
"With gold thou boughtest Gýmir's daughter,
and so gavest away thy sword:
but when Muspell's sons through the dark forest ride,
thou, unhappy, wilt not have wherewith to fight."
~ Lokasenna
but ur argument is limited by the fact that its logical
slutzy is making a point that has nothing to do with that and everything to do with human stubborness, habit and for want of a better word; blindness.
These facets have killed millions.
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
Leland I’m trying to understand where you are coming from here.
It’s not up to us to say these guys need to retire. Some of these fighters simply love to fight and know nothing else.
Jens needs to have naysayers or rational people around him to tell him not to continue
The commission is the last line, and it should be the most strict … which you are right, it isn’t.
It seems you are saying fans should not worry about a fighter’s decision to retire, that is up to either the fighter or the commission. The commission will not retire a fighter, so if a fighter is set on pursuiting his craft, it is up to the fans and his friends to persuade him not to. Yet, you already set it wasn’t their place. Can you please elaborate?
I’m talking about his immediate family and people actually pushing him in the gym and saying he should fight. I doubt we have much affect, especially when young guys in the gym are telling him he’s in great shape and doing great.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jan 25, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
I doubt we have much affect
Seriously, that’s crazy. You can always tell when someone doesn’t actually have much connection with fighters. The rush of the crowd and the adulation is such a huge part of the experience. It’s part of the reason pro wrestlers can’t hang it up even into their golden years.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 25, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
Give me a break. Now you’re being overly dramatic. One post about how he should retire isn’t going to solve anything. He’s been seeing these for what? A year and a half to two years, and he didn’t retire yet. The people around him everyday need to be the naysayers, not us.
Unless you actually talk to him, which you have the opportunity to do and say “People want you to retire…” I’d say that you may have some affect in that regard. But a post exclaiming his fight was a farce and joke. No.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jan 25, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
Jonathan has a point here Leland.
If all the fans thought about his safety and not the memories, and didn’t flood his twitter and the internet with praise, he’d find the motivation to continue to do this lacking. I don’t think Jonathan is suggesting his lone article is going to change much.
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"...just when you think you’ve produced your magnum opus, someone shows up and takes a giant shit in your mouth. In your mouth." - Anthony Pace
Don't eat B.L.T. sammaches
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 25, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
Of course not. The naysayers aren’t going to stop him. It’s the removal of the cheerleaders and adulation. I think it was pretty clear that was the issue I was referring to.
My post just means he won’t take my calls and will tell people I’m an asshole. But if his fights are met with indifference? That’s another story.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 25, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
Is Bones Jones not returning your calls either?
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"...just when you think you’ve produced your magnum opus, someone shows up and takes a giant shit in your mouth. In your mouth." - Anthony Pace
Don't eat B.L.T. sammaches
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 25, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t know. I don’t really care.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 25, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
I’ll be looking forward to THAT community interview. : )
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If I was doing this to kiss up to fighters and get the UFC to comp me and shit like that I wouldn’t be here.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 25, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Obviously not, but it seems like you have no problem with burning bridges either.
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
For such a “manly sport” we have some of the most overly emotional athletes around. We just can’t worry about “bridges” that often.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 25, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
I can’t imagine doing anything but sharing my unvarnished opinions. If I’m holding things back, it’s time to quit. This site deserves at least that much. I appreciate our freedom to engage in real talk.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 25, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
I appreciate that too, even if I don’t agree with it all the time. All I was saying is that “real talk” is a noble concept that bites people in the ass a lot. That’s all.
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some things are just worth doing
"real talk" is a noble concept that bites people in the ass a lot. That’s all.
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
This is a hobby for me. I think I’ll be okay.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 25, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
I think it probably takes a bit of both. Of course response varies from person to person, but it would make sense that Jens could feed on both the fan adulation AND the adulation of his training partners and family members. If you consider his misconceptions that fighting the only way he can support his family, you paint a very difficult situation.
If only:
A) Illegal to fight in unregulated states or territories
B) Commissions paid at least as much attention to aging or incapable fighters as they did to marijuana smokers like Nick Diaz.
I can see your point here, but I also think his immediate family and friends need to be the biggest impact, which they apparently aren’t. Or maybe they don’t have the knowledge to know what the danger is. I suppose if we all were up in arms, it would matter.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jan 25, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
C’mon dude. Bobby Chacon’s wife begged him to stop boxing and killed herself with a shotgun the night before he fought Salvador Ugalde. He fought anyways.
Its the roar of the crowd and the money that comes with it that gets these guys to continue. Remove it and they stop or find roadblocks to continuing. Evander Holyfield and James Toney could be fighting on club shows every other week getting paid $600-1000 and don’t because they demand more. Force Pulver into the position where he’s getting paid like that and has no commercial future in this sport and he’ll go find something else to do.
by VirtualBalboa on Jan 25, 2011 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
It’s not about a “right” it’s about voicing an opinion which is ABSOLUTELY something we have the right to do.
And for as often as people love to talk about the “responsibility” that we have to defend the sport I’d say it’s a bigger responsibility to point out the risks that are being run.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 25, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
I think the bigger issue is pointing out the incompetence in the regulation. Some commissions don’t even look at how many times a guy has been knocked out consecutively.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jan 25, 2011 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
But if the bigger commissions tell him no, he’ll just go fight somewhere without…or shop the fight around.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 25, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
Which is a fine point, but ultimately irrelevant in discussing the sport in real terms. Someone will license Jens, just like someone licensed a one eyed Aaron Pryor and someone else allowed a guy with no limbs to fight.
by VirtualBalboa on Jan 25, 2011 6:44 PM EST up reply actions
Leland is a typical fan?
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"...just when you think you’ve produced your magnum opus, someone shows up and takes a giant shit in your mouth. In your mouth." - Anthony Pace
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by Urijah Bieber on Jan 25, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
This actually comes back to something Luke and Nate talked about before. It was in a different context (I believe they were talking financially), but the basis is that fighters aren’t generally aren’t smart enough to know how to take care of themselves and need guidance in most areas of life. I absolutely agree with you that this is Lil Evil’s decision and no one else’s, but I see what Snowden’s saying too – all of us encouraging him only strengthens his resolve to continue. We’re instilling false confidence in the guy, which makes him think this is the path he should choose, when all most of us big Jens fans is just for him to find his way in life. That doesn’t necessarily mean in the cage.
Still a Beer Monster.
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If this is all the man has to make a living...
who are we to say he should retire. It is his life and obviously we all wanted him to go out on top but that isn’t going to happen. I for one say let the man fight. If he and his opponents are cleared medically then let people put some food on their table.
I want to make this totally clear…
Fighting in regional promotions is not a realistic method of “making a living.”
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by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 25, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
What kind of paydays does he get?
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"...just when you think you’ve produced your magnum opus, someone shows up and takes a giant shit in your mouth. In your mouth." - Anthony Pace
Don't eat B.L.T. sammaches
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 25, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
He hasn't made it out of the 1st round in a couple years, true
But he’s been getting subbed every time. He hasn’t been KO’d / TKO’d since the Garcia and Lauzon fights, respectively. It’s not like he’s Chuck Liddell and he’s getting his brain rearranged every time he steps in there. If Pulver has taken too much damage in his career to continue, I can think of plenty of other guys who have been KO’d / TKO’d way more whom no one seems to care about. Take his opponent, Mike Lindquist; record of 6-20. Why was this guy allowed To fight a former UFC LW champ? Just looking for some consistency here.
"If I wanted to spend a half hour between two hairy legs I'd go to your mother's house." -Don Frye
by mburtoni on Jan 25, 2011 10:53 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I’m afraid there will always be enablers willing claim Jens at their gym and allow him to continue to compete. I would hope that after this fight, he realized that he’s not really improving anymore, truly, it looks as if they’re dwindling. His fight at XFO looked like two amateurs rolling around. I don’t say that in an insulting manner, but you can take one look at how Jens and his opponent were wrestling and you’ll understand just how similar it looks.
There’s a place for Jens somewhere, he just needs to care enough to find it.
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by Kaleb Kelchner on Jan 25, 2011 10:53 AM EST reply actions
i truly believe
Jens has a place AND a future in this sport.
the tough thing is that i’m not sure he wants it. his place in this sport now is as a commentator, where he can really impart some great knowledge to fans.
OR his place is training young fighters. Jens has a wealth of experience fighting on the biggest (and now, the smallest) stages in the world. he has a lot to offer — i think Jens could be a great corner man/coach.
i’m a huge fan of his, but i genuinely hope we’ve seen the last of him in the cage as a fighter.
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he shoulda retired after the first faber fight
and hes a great announcer its surprising noone picked him up
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
yea but u think even some regional promotion could use the attention that comes with having him announce
especially since he’d be on every card announcing rather then every once in a while if he was just fighting
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
It’s a shame that the UFC decided it couldn’t use him as a broadcaster, cutting him loose in favor of Stephan Bonnar, just another way to get back at Pulver for his decision to part ways with the company nine years ago
So, maybe the UFC wasn’t just “getting back at” him?
by jhf884 on Jan 25, 2011 3:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Jens is not a great announcer or spokesperson for the sport. And his fighting at this point is dangerous for him. So is working in a coal mine or on a crab boat. Or in a gas station, or in a Humvee overseas.
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"...just when you think you’ve produced your magnum opus, someone shows up and takes a giant shit in your mouth. In your mouth." - Anthony Pace
Don't eat B.L.T. sammaches
I thought Jens voluntarily left the WEC announcing gig because he wanted to keep fighting.
Can anyone shed light here?
by MMABookworm on Jan 25, 2011 11:12 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I’m sure I read somewhere that he decided that he wanted to keep fighting and didn’t take the announcing job. Wonder where that came from? So The UFC didn’t offer to keep him as an announcer?
I also remember that being the official explanation. I think he even said so himself that he turned it down because he would make more money fighting regional shows.
by Horselover Fat on Jan 25, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
I have good information regarding this. I’m not sure what the PR story was, but he most certainly wanted his WEC slot back.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 25, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
Insider sources?
I love those.
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"...just when you think you’ve produced your magnum opus, someone shows up and takes a giant shit in your mouth. In your mouth." - Anthony Pace
Don't eat B.L.T. sammaches
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 25, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
I will look around, I thought it was something he said. I do believe you if you say you have good information I’m just wondering why he didn’t get an announcing deal?
Because he is forever in the dog house. It was some cold blooded business.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 25, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
...
Can you elaborate at all?
I’d be curious what the story behind this was… I seem to recall Dana (or possibly someone else associated with the UFC) commenting on this before Pulver left the WEC (impression was that he had an announcing job as soon as he retired from fighting).
Did they rescind their offer? Why the bad blood? I’ve seen Jens comment on the UFC / Dana since then and I’ve never seen him say a bad word.
Not only did he try not to say anything bad, he actually dissed his mentor and friend Pat Miletich to try to please Zuffa (disclosure: most prominently in an interview with me for the Houston Chronicle).
Jens was part of the insider crew when Zuffa first bought the company. Flying around with Dana and the boys or the private plane, the whole nine. Then he lost his mind, left the company in the lurch and took the title with him, and wandered the globe for years. He hasn’t been forgiven.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 25, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
Really?
They brought him in as a coach for TUF and let him hang around the WEC for a while. What else were they supposed to do for an old friend?
by Pantherhare on Jan 25, 2011 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
He was fed to BJ Penn and Faber though...
…and then anyone else in the WEC could pick over the remains.
"With gold thou boughtest Gýmir's daughter,
and so gavest away thy sword:
but when Muspell's sons through the dark forest ride,
thou, unhappy, wilt not have wherewith to fight."
~ Lokasenna
He wasn't exactly "fed" to Faber...
At least not the first fight. I honestly think Jens was still relevant up until the tko loss to Garcia. When he proved he couldn’t hang with a middle-tier FW, I began to suspect he was slightly over the hill
"If I wanted to spend a half hour between two hairy legs I'd go to your mother's house." -Don Frye
by mburtoni on Jan 25, 2011 1:11 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If he wasn’t forgiven, why did he get a chance to commentate in the first place?
by MMABookworm on Jan 25, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think he's gonna keep fighting regardless of what people are saying
He’s said many times that he has to fight to provide for his family. People have been saying that he should quit for years and it hasn’t seemed to deter him.
And it’s not like people don’t understand the situation. It’s sad that a former UFC champion is fighting guys that have lost three times as many fights as he’s won. It’s sad that, for whatever reason, he doesn’t have the resources to retire from the sport when he’s clearly past his prime. But if he’s gonna continue his sad fighting career, I’d rather see him win than lose.
He’s said many times that he has to fight to provide for his family.
he’s fighting for peanuts. he could make more money and better provide for his family by using his criminal justice degree and being a cop in some po-dunk town.
live pleasant
by eastcoastatlas on Jan 25, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
Personally, I never was a fan but...
Congrats on a great career. Thanks for your contribution to a sport I love.
This has been bugging me for quite a while...
I have to say I disagree with this and everyone else who deems themself the be all and end all of who should and shouldn’t fight. Obviously the man still needs to work. Who are we to tell him he can’t fight anymore. He may lose a lot, but it’s his record to destroy, and the man needs to eat. Same with Frank.
We keep hearing how these guys go in there and get destroyed and how they should just retire. We talk about how they are going to get seriously hurt and it’s time to hang it up. But lets be real, these guys may have lost a step, and their better days are behind them, but they aren’t strangers to the cage. They know what they are doing in there and what they can take.
They may be getting beat handily on a consistant basis, but It’s their lives to live however they see fit and I don’t see them in any more danger than any other fighter who loses.
but they aren’t strangers to the cage. They know what they are doing in there and what they can take.
i think the basis of the argument is that Jens no longer knows what he can take and in that sense can no longer responsibly guide himself in terms of fighting.
Here i think we need to know more about the type of scans that commissions do. they picked up the alves problem and seemingly saved his job/life, does the same count for serial concussive / cumulative damage and whether risk thresholds are identified based on this?
If this process were effective then that would appear to present at least the basis of an objective approach to fighter safety assessment based on the health of the brain (if nothing else).
Otherwise it is difficult to argue against someone’s desire to steer their own destiny.
though there is always, as Jonathan points out, the right to withdraw our support from fighters who seem at real risk. To me it seems the question of genuine guidance and advice can only rely on support networks at this point in the development of MMA.
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
See I don’t see him as ‘being at risk’. You guys make it sound like he’s a stupid child. All the times I’ve seen him fight during his decline, He seems like he’s ok in the cage. He isn’t getting pounded into oblivion, he’s getting caught in stupid submissions, He’s letting himself get outworked, He’s letting young cats manhandle him. But he’s still defending himself for the most part. He still seems to be aware of what he’s doing.
If he was getting routinely bashed i would say maybe he should give quitting some serious thought, but as it stands he’s just losing. And if he’s not concerned with any kind of intact record, I’m not either! Besides It gives the young guys on the regionals a name for their records.
Good piece, definitely agree, interesting about his WoW addiction. The guy is obviously not all there mentally and probably should not be fighting any more. It’s sad to see a former world champion fight a can with a horrible losing record on a small show, for both of them. I agree with the idea that we shouldn’t be encourage him, but I think some people just fall into that because he’s such a nice guy and you feel sorry for him. Which ends up enabling his behavior and is really more hurting the guy instead of being something positive. As soon as he faces someone somewhat legit he will undoubtedly lose again, and thus the downward spiral continues.
by Horselover Fat on Jan 25, 2011 11:24 AM EST reply actions
if you’re older than 17 and have ever played more than 17 minutes of WoW, there is no hope for you.
go be a cop in Idaho, Jens.
people who keep saying he should be a commentator: he mumbles like crazy and really wasn’t very good at it.
live pleasant
by eastcoastatlas on Jan 25, 2011 11:25 AM EST reply actions
Thats an unfair generalization of people who enjoy video games. There are people who take it too far, absolutely. But to say there is no hope for anyone who played a certain game is ridiculous. That is a legitimate hobby for millions of people!
good. i hope they all have heart problems so my active self has less people to share my retirement benefits with. video games are a waste of life. when you ain’t at your job, live life with people.
live pleasant
by eastcoastatlas on Jan 25, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not a big video gamer or anything...
but if you keep acting like a dick and wishing heart problems on people I’ll ban you for being a dumbass.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 25, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Funny how I can always tell when Snowden is the writer
Without even checking to look.
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by Chris Groves on Jan 25, 2011 11:29 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
This feels like a witch hunt to me...
The article is a bit over the top imo. I get an angry parent who doesn’t understand their kids interests sort of vibe, especially with respect to the gaming.
Jens seems like a good guy in interviews and I don’t want to see him brain dead, but I don’t have a problem with him getting in the ring with some cans. I don’t think we should be under any illusions that Jens will never beat mid or top level guys again, but if he wants to make some modest money fighting D level guys I don’t have a problem with it.
Calling for retirement is extreme. Fighting low level guys is perfectly reasonable given he doesn’t seem to have any non-fight related MMA opportunities. Let’s not burn the guy at the cross because he isn’t the world beater he once was.
@rask4p on Twitter
At this point Jens may be losing money on training for these low level regional fights as opposed to making some modest money fighting.
Maybe. I expect he would be training whether or not he was fighting, most guys do unless they have an injury that prevents it. Any ideas on what the payout for his last fight was?
@rask4p on Twitter
Would he be seriously training if he was retired from fighting and had another career?
It can’t be much money for a regional show in Illinois. Considering training cost and travel I can’t see where he made all that much in the end.
I guess I question how seriously he’s training though I don’t have a good reason for that. I’m sure you’re right and he doesn’t make much money, but hopefully he’s got some income from the gym or something like that.
@rask4p on Twitter
Jens is not without alternatives, heck he has a college degree. It’s sad that he didn’t make more from MMA but that boat has sailed and he still has half his life to life ahead of him to live.
I agree, but fighters, especially from his era, do it because they love it. Unless he is clearly doing excessive damage to himself (and I don’t think that has been estabilished, it’s more of a premise) I don’t understand why retirement is imperative.
Could Jens make the same money at $8/hr, probably. Could Jens go out and get a job making more for $20/hr, probably.
@rask4p on Twitter
I always get the impression that Snowden knows something that he’s not letting us in on. The guy has a lot of inside info, but it becomes too easy to just trust him and not question. He seems to say that Jens is falling apart and is showing signs of brain damage, but I just haven’t seen that. Without that premise being established Jens is just a fighter who isn’t keeping up with the competition.
If this is a question of health, I’d like to know, but I won’t just assume it. If Jens has just fallen off the curve and wants to spend the rest of his career beating the tar out of D levelers so be it.
@rask4p on Twitter
Jens Pulver’s win this weekend was met with celebration worthy of a Super Bowl championship. It was trumpeted on Twitter, liked on Facebook, and written about on websites far and near.
The only place I saw it was the UG.
by The Ghost of Spike Owen on Jan 25, 2011 11:47 AM EST reply actions
Damn Snowden.
This is extreme but it also sounds like a fan with balls to tell it straight. In the end Pulver will make his own decision but hopefully he’s listening to voices like yours.
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
I hate it whe mommy and daddy fight…
by troutki on Jan 25, 2011 11:55 AM EST via mobile reply actions
It's not like Pulver has been KO'd six times in a row
And is completely punchy, and can’t take shots to save his life.
He’s been getting guillotined and losing by armbar and etc.
There are technical things one can improve on to avoid things like that…and with Pulver, I’m sure some of it was mental, losing X amount of fights in a row by submission makes you so weary about being submitted that you slip up and get submitted again, which only compounds the problem.
CPG
Alistair Overeem - StrikeForce HeavyWeight Champion, K-1 2010 World Grand Prix Champion, DREAM Interim HeavyWeight Champion
by Chris Groves on Jan 25, 2011 11:56 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I'm sorry
Am I reading his losses wrong?
CPG
Alistair Overeem - StrikeForce HeavyWeight Champion, K-1 2010 World Grand Prix Champion, DREAM Interim HeavyWeight Champion
by Chris Groves on Jan 25, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
You're reaching pretty far here
Let’s break down his last 6 losses:
Diego Garijo – Got clipped and subbed in just over a minute
Javier Vasquez – Subbed in the 1st round
Josh Grispi – Subbed in 33 seconds
Urijah Faber – Clipped and subbed in 1:34
Leonard Garcia – Got knocked out in just over a minute by a man that has terrible, I repeat, TERRIBLE striking and overrated power (mainly due to this fight)
Urijah Faber – Surviving this was his Swan Song
After the Faber fight, he went down hill QUICK. He’s shot. And it’s not like his losses were competitive. He’s looked horrible in the last 5.
Meet me on Monsta Island. Where the girls look good and the MC's be Wildin'.
Also, follow me on Twitter @DeoWade
The faber fight was his body's lasp gasp
Left it all in the cage that night.
Contributor at Unintelligent Defense
Lead Blogger at Ninja's Place
"...just when you think you’ve produced your magnum opus, someone shows up and takes a giant shit in your mouth. In your mouth." - Anthony Pace
Don't eat B.L.T. sammaches
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 25, 2011 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
Probably should note
Just to be clear, I am very much in the camp that says he should never fight again…
However, that first Faber fight may have been the last time he’s actually trained. Between these WoW addiction rumors, etc and his shortlived stint at AMC where no one was really on the same page.
I know for the second Urijah fight, Jens requested to delay it because his best friend had been murdered and I think there was another death in his family and he wasn’t able to train. His “training camp” for that fight was him arriving the week of the fight 18 lbs overweight. It was pretty much just cutting weight… no wonder that body shot from Urijah dropped him so easy, eh?
by Diz D on Jan 25, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Good article.
I have to agree. I’m sorry to hear about the WoW habit – I have seen people run into severe problems due to computer game addictions – they aren’t a joke, they do happen.
Who is letting Holyfield fight? He is 48, and started in the 1980s!
"I'd love to be a Cheick Kongo looking brother that could actually move and do a lot of funky stuff - Jiu Jitsu, takedowns, kicks and stuff." - Jon Jones.
"This is the internet: you either have soul-stopping power or you’re a pillow-fisted pansy. There is no middle ground." - woomikee
Who are you to tell an adult how he can make his money?
Do you really think he has delusions of getting back into the UFC, and making a title run? I obviously don’t know his motivation, but I bet it has everything to do with supporting his family, and making a living.
I understand your concern for his health and welfare, but for you to act like you know what’s best for Jens Pulver is a bit condescending.
You gotta pay the troll toll, to get into this boy's soul.
twitter.com/JayAreW
He was a successful pro fighter, a world champion. Now he needs to fight guys who are 6-19 to win. Are you seriously telling me that the best thing for him is to continue fighting. What are his family going to do if he gets hurt? What are his family gonna do when he gets older and starts dementing?
What you guys are saying is correct, don’t get me wrong. I’m not going to pay to watch Pulver fight, I don’t want to support this anymore than you guys do.
However…we have zero idea what’s it’s like to be Jens Pulver. We have zero idea what his job prospects are, and we have no inkling what his family situation is. If Jens and his family think this is the best thing for them, then who are we to demand his retirement?
I only took issue with the tone of the article. I agree with everything in it.
You gotta pay the troll toll, to get into this boy's soul.
twitter.com/JayAreW
That’s just Jonathan Snowdon, his problem is always tone… No offense to him.
by Ilias on Jan 25, 2011 12:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
but I bet it has everything to do with supporting his family, and making a living.
At this point MMA isn’t supporting his family or making him a living. He’s only 36, he has 30 years of working ahead of him. MMA fighting as a viable career is over the sooner he moves on and finds something else the better off him and his family will be.
by who me on Jan 25, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I read it more as an energetic (not to say aggressive) warning to fans and other commentators to stop encouraging the man.
"I'd love to be a Cheick Kongo looking brother that could actually move and do a lot of funky stuff - Jiu Jitsu, takedowns, kicks and stuff." - Jon Jones.
"This is the internet: you either have soul-stopping power or you’re a pillow-fisted pansy. There is no middle ground." - woomikee
He openly said he does it because he needs the money. when your background is fighting, you have been doing it for eleven years, you probably don’t have many chances to make a live outside of it. He tried as you said a transition to another role linked to the sport (owning a gym, commentator), but they failed miserably. The normal move is going back to fighting, even if it is on the lowest level.
No saying i don’t agree with you, but if you say Pulver should quit fighting regardless, give the man a solid alternative
by Carlos Estrada-Ibars Martínez on Jan 25, 2011 12:35 PM EST reply actions
A job. I got three, he can’t work one?
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 25, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
Make him your PA!
"The men who get on best with women are those that get on best without them" Lee Christmas
by StevenGiles on Jan 25, 2011 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
God your such a self serving slab of society….
by CerealKracka on Jan 25, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
It’s not for us to give him an alternative that’s something he has to decide but he’s only 36 years old, he has half his life still ahead of him and for all practical purposes his career as a professional fighter has been over for years now. It’s not like it’s uncommon for people to have to start fresh careers in their 30’s (hell I wish I could be 36 years old again).
I guess I can try to pull a couple of alternatives off the top of my head. Get a regular job(hell he’s got a degree in criminal justice), go back to college/technical school and learn a new skill, open a muffin shop, get a show on HGTV restoring houses, do a VH1 reality show, try to get a commentator job with one of the other organizations, start training other fighters, write books, start a MMA news site, run for public office, become a real estate agent like Chael Sonnen, become a MMA ref/judge, did I say open up a muffin shop? Ok that could go on forever couldn’t it. The thing is Jens has alternatives, he’s not someone with no skills besides fighting.
Exactly
He’s in the same position as anyone who just got laid off due to the recession, with the bonus of possessing a certain amount of fame from his fighting career. Frankly, I’m not one bit sympathetic to the idea that ‘he can’t do anything else’. People have to find new jobs all the time, people’s careers get pulled out from under them… they get new jobs and keep going. Jens needs to do that too before he gets too old/broken down to be employable.
"With gold thou boughtest Gýmir's daughter,
and so gavest away thy sword:
but when Muspell's sons through the dark forest ride,
thou, unhappy, wilt not have wherewith to fight."
~ Lokasenna
All the sympathy in the world for a guy who was world champion but didn’t make enough money but it’s hard to have sympathy for him when he says he has to fight to take care of his family. At this point he’s not fighting for his family he is fighting for his own selfish reasons, his family would be better served by him finding a healthier and more stable future career to follow. None of us can tell him what to do or make his decisions for him but we also shouldn’t pretend that there is something noble about him continuing to fight instead of moving on with his life in a positive direction.
Yeah I should have been clearer about that point.
It is regrettable that his peak in the sport came before the really good money was around, and he probably didn’t see the rewards his achievements deserved – especially as PRIDE didn’t really work out for him – but in that regard he’s hardly the only one. I think people are more willing to indulge Jens because he comes across as likeable, and because in fairness to him he never did some of the dumb shit some of the other fighters of his generation did (like Ken Shamrock, Randleman, etc.). Conversely, people had no trouble telling Mark Coleman to retire, despite the fact that he actually holds a win over an active UFC fighter about 18 months ago.
"With gold thou boughtest Gýmir's daughter,
and so gavest away thy sword:
but when Muspell's sons through the dark forest ride,
thou, unhappy, wilt not have wherewith to fight."
~ Lokasenna
He has plenty of alternatives. He just doesn't want to do any of them.
Heck, he can even go back to school and further his education. Plenty of people lose their jobs or fail in their careers only to get back up and do something else. If Jens can’t see another way to make money and be successful other than being linked to fighting in some way, then that’s his problem. He’s still relatively young. Sometimes you have to do work you don’t necessarily enjoy. He has to sack up and get over that.
worked for Mark Kerr
twitter.com/GotaHemmi
instrength.com <-- Best MMA forum
by Brian Hemminger on Jan 25, 2011 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
I agree in principle that he is clearly at the point where his skills are diminishing and he is what appears to be a shell if his championship form, but I can also see how hard it would be for any athlete of his calibre to give it up as I am sure when he trains and watches fight tape he sees how he is “almost there” in terms of really competing. Us on the outside can look at it objectively and see that it is an unattainable goal for him and no amount of training will allow him to get his step back, but I really feel he is the type of guy that would fight for free to just feel the rush of fighting even in front of meager local show crowd.
Combat sports are the most difficult for the common man to relate to, but it may be like a doc telling a writer that his carpel tunnel (sp) is only going to get worse the more he types and even to a point where it will become permanently debilitating. Writing and typing are his job and passion, but now he faces the
decision to go on as he always has or quit. I know it isn’t as dramatic as that, but just an example that came to mind.
by troutki on Jan 25, 2011 4:53 PM EST via mobile reply actions
The worst part...
Is that he was offered a job with the UFC, while Probably not paying the level of Liddells new job, it was probably still a set for life type of job.
But no, he gave that up to continue fighting in these small shows.
by A K I R A on Jan 25, 2011 8:36 PM EST via mobile reply actions
http://wow.joystiq.com/2010/01/19/15-minutes-of-fame-pulverizing-the-world-of-warcraft/
i love that one of his characters is crocop.
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