UFC 125 Results: Forget What You Think You Know About the Featherweight Division
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 2, 2011 2:00 PM EST
in UFC Editorial
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If we learned anything last night at UFC 125, it should be this simple lesson: think twice before anointing UFC Featherweight champion Jose Aldo as one of the sport's pound for pound elite. Josh Grispi's decimation at the hands of the unknown and unheralded Dustin Poirier should make it perfectly clear that we don't know much about who's good and who's great in the featherweight division.
Josh Grispi was supposed to challenge Aldo for the title on this show. Think about that. Grispi, still a great young prospect with lots of room to grow, was exposed by a fighter no one had ever heard of. Poirier, a hard hitter who trains with Tim Credeur, dropped down from 155 pounds and immediately showed the world a ton of flaws in Grispi's game. Grispi was outclassed on his feet and Poirier shrugged off numerous submission attempts like he was a man in with a boy. In a sense, he kind of was.
Luke Thomas has been preaching this point for some time on his MMA Nation radio show. The featherweight division just hasn't settled in yet - it's too new to have even determined who the best fighters in the division are, let alone how they fit in the broader framework of MMA. And now that there is UFC money in the division, everything is going to change. It will be a cataclysmic year for featherweight rankings as tons of fighters just like Poirier will try their hand at 145.
Aldo supporters don't want to hear about this. After all, he is the champion, the best fighter in the division. No one disputes that, only what it means in the bigger picture. They want to believe becoming the WEC champion propelled him into the sport's elite. But that just wasn't true - at least not yet. Aldo carries a title that is built on the credibility of Jens Pulver, a fighter who went from making Urijah Faber a star to losing five consecutive fights. Before Faber's win over Pulver, many MMA pundits considered the strong crop of Japanese featherweights to be the world's best. Faber's growing notoriety quelled that talk and pushed the WEC title into the spotlight.
Aldo won gold from Mike Brown, a career journeyman at 155 who failed against the top competition in the UFC and Japan. Brown was able to beat Faber twice, suddenly going from UFC also ran to many people's top pound for pound list. The Ultimate Fighter runner up Manny Gamburyan made a similar transition from UFC loser to WEC star. If guys who never made it in the big show like Brown and Gamburyan were able to run roughshod over the featherweight class, imagine what undersized UFC lightweights who are actually competitive and winning fights in their current weight class will do when they make the cut to 145.
The featherweight division, as we know it, is an artificial construct. The rankings are all meaningless, even our great USA Today/SBNation rankings. Until the UFC level talent at 155 settles into the division and makes their mark, everything is a guessing game. What happened in the WEC is irrelevant. A guy like Poirier, a 155 pounder who lost a preliminary undercard bout to Danny Castillo in the WEC a few short months ago, just wrecked the WEC's top featherweight contender. Forget what you think you know. Until further notice the featherweight division should be promoted with an asterisk that reads "Under Construction."
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BW seems to have a lot more structure
because the top guys there are not LW cast offs. Wineland, Cruz, Joe-jitz etc etc have real p4p skills imo.
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
Middle of last year the same craziness was going on with bantamweight. No reason to think it won’t continue now that UFC money will create similar pressures that will/are occurring at 145
eyeball test
grispi, brown at this stage etc have glaring weaknesses, BW is LOADED with contenders with legit skills that would translate to any division. Check out my boy Eddie Wineland bob and weave, have a gander at the American BJJ of the natural BW fighter Faber, look at Bowles rounded skillset, Joe Jitsu would choke out an orangutan. The only overrated guy really was Torres but he’s fixing those holes. The BW division has already dealt with this issue last year.
If you wanted to fight at all at this weight you would be in the WEC and not forcing yourself to be fighting at 55 because you’re going to make more there. BW is one of the most stacked and talented in the sport. And aint no WEC hatin’ ass revisionism is gonna sway me.
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
What’s “american bjj”? I’m genuinely asking. Also, Joe jitsu……..not that good. No way he has p4p skills.
american bjj
is kinda like the matt hughes mx of bjj and wrestling
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
The issue is not whether or not the division is “stacked” or not, which, incidentally is an argument for my point (as more depth means a higher probability for sudden change).
The point is that the prestige, money and prominence of the UFC will cause fluctuations in the small pool that is now expanding.
I have the feeling that some of the media are going to just dub the division “highly unpredictable” and pretend that you’re not absolutely correct about this one. People might get it twisted and think this means that Aldo isn’t that good…no, he’s real good, but the competition he’s facing is going to be changing, evolving, and getting their shit together. Plus, we’ve got 155’ers going to drop down. It’s going to be fun to watch, but Aldo in p4p talks has been, and will sadly continue to be off base.
It’s going to be very interesting watching these two weightclasses evolve so rapidly.
Twitter me @kkelchner621
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Wow...
Not one fight in the UFC and already Aldo is being taken down a notch……isn’t that the job of the MSM?
It’s not necessarily taking Aldo down a notch. It’s about deflating some of the hyperbole around him. He’s awesome, he’s exciting, etc. But people were ranking him up there with A. Silva and GSP, two guys who have destroyed their divisions. Divisions that have been established for some time.
I agree the division is in flux
But Aldo’s got the p4p goods.
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
He’s got the goods. But the hyperbole has to stop. I know MMA fans and media like to jump on the next big thing. Just look at Pettis. He’s a good fighter and he has fans, but he pulls off that ninja kick and all of a sudden it’s criminal that he won’t be getting the next LW title shot as promised. All I am saying is, let’s see how he does over the next year or two before we crown him FW God.
Faber was the FW god, and Brown slayed him
and he smoked both of those guys. Now Brown is garbage because of his losses since then or whatever to everyone, but MMA revisionism can be applied to any division if we wanted it too. Yes the division is in flux with a lack of contenders. But Anderson Silva and GSP have been ruling a weak p4p divisional landscape for years. IMO both WW and MW are just as lacking in serious challenges as this division. A good standup fighter could just as easily expose Shields as Grispi was as well.
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
The WW division is stacked.
It has been for years now. And Silva is where he is because of how easily he destroyed MW’s and how he moved up to LHW and beat guys there too. As for Brown, I too don’t get the shit that’s been heaped on him since he lost to Aldo. Might have been his loss to Manny that did it. Regardless, I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one.
I disagree on WW
I see none of these guys with P4P talent. I have nearly no WW’s in my p4p rankings up to 25, because ya know, those rankings mean so much.
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
p4p your rankings are
ranked high in the BCS, but yo mine are TCU.
I don’t even know what that means.
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
Is this a rhetorical question Mike?
Pretty simple to understand. I don’t think many WW’s if blown up to other divisions or shunken down to naturally fight in other divisions would hold their same position. Maybe Kos. South of GSP I mean.
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
That’s not really what P4P rankings are about. And I disagree with your assessment of the talent at 170 in any case.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
What are they about then?
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
A measure of divisional dominance. It’s why Sherdog has Jon Fitch at #5 in their P4P.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
I coulda a sworn
pound for pound means the best fighters if all fighters were the same weight – talent taken pound for pound.
This underscores the ambiguity with P4P arguments, as Mike’s philosophy certainly isn’t the consensus or norm.
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
What do you mean Mike? I mean there’s no way those guys can compete with the likes of Mike Brown!
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 2, 2011 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
Mike Brown in his prime knocks Jon Fitch's head off.
Lesnar p4p number 1 homie.
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
here is how BS I think P4P ranking is
P4P Lesnar has the most pounds, therefore he is #1. It’s BS.
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Jan 2, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
correction
A standup fighter (Kampmann) pretty much did expose Shields even though he lost
Dear audio diary: Today I may have accidentally registered myself as a sex offender! WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY LIFE
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yea, exactly
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
He exposed Jake’s shitty weight cut, that’s about it.
by Rob Young on Jan 2, 2011 9:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
well this is dumb on a number of levels.
To compare grispi to Shields is absurd. -same is true of Faber and Gamburyan. basically the entire claim to faim of the FW division is Urijah faber’s victory over Jens Pulver….which is a pretty laughable basis for the WEC’s 145 division credibility.
-WW was an incredibly deep, longstanding, established division that GSP has dominated. MW, although weaker, is also older, at least.
-They weren’t saying he’s “garbage because of his losses since then or whatever” they’re saying he was a mediocre 155er who went down to a small pond and suddenly became “elite”
No, I like it the way it is.
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
I want to disagree with this so bad....
but damn, you make a compelling argument. I still think Jose Aldo will prove to be one of the 3 best in the business, behind only GSP and A. Silva. But he may just need to jump up to 155 to prove it.
You were way more likely to be murdered in Baltimore in 2008 than you were in Tombstone in 1881.
i dont think that at all
i think aldo should stay at 145, the divisions only gonna get better since its in the UFC now and by staying at his natural weight and destroying everyone in front of him he’ll really cement himself as a top p4p fighter
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
Agreed, and good read.
I have been saying for a while that we will see guys that can’t cut it at the top of the 155 division dropping to 145 like crazy. Nam Phan was no dummy. He knows that LW has about 30 too many fighters on the roster and FW is open season. Expect to see half of the WEC LW’s and the bottom tier UFC 155ers at 145 in the next 6 months.
Luke Thomas has been preaching this point for some time on his MMA Nation radio show. The featherweight division just hasn’t settled in yet
Exactly. For people to have Aldo as #3 on their P4P rankings, and to think he would just walk in and destroy top Lightweights – all of that is ridiculous. I know Aldo is a good fighter, but the FW division won’t be settled for at least another year or two. Once that happens, and Aldo is still champ, then we can consider him in the top P4P rankings. People need to stop drinking that kool-aid. It’s bad for you. Nothing but sugar in it.
Are you telling me Aldo can't beat Edgar?
After last night?
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Jan 2, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
I’m saying people are giving Aldo credit like he destroyed an established division. It’s not established and to consider him #3 P4P is silly. Can he beat Edgar? Maybe. I don’t know.
Well. P4P list is BS for the lack of a better term.
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Jan 2, 2011 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed.
I hate rankings in general. But people like to put shit from best to worst and they like to label stuff. It is what it is.
People got to understand. P4P is for writers to cause controversy
make up stories, and create silly discussions. Oh Fedor is better than Anderson. Anderson is better than BJ. Aldo would beat Fedor. Cruz is more skilled than Rua. I mean give me a break. That’s just nonsense.
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Jan 2, 2011 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
You can't honestly tell me that isn't fun
Fuck off mr fun police!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Aldo would BLAST Rua!!! Why? Cause stone cold said so.
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
I am willing to entertain match ups that could happen
like GSP Anderson. Or Anderson Rua. Not Aldo vs. Fedor
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Jan 2, 2011 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
FUN POLICE
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 2:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Everyone knows Brock is P4P best.
He said so in his latest video ;)
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Jan 2, 2011 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
It was established until he walked through everyone
wasn’t it?
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe some people thought it was, but I never considered the FW division established, especially considering a) many LW fighters refused to go down in weight because the pay wasn’t there. b) Many great Japanese FW fighters refused to go to the WEC, again, cause the pay wasn’t there. Now that the UFC has co-opted the division, we should see a huge talent influx from Japan and the existing LW division.
This is true too
but the division was still pretty damn good. I just don’t want the WEC’s legacy shat on.
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
WEC legacy won't be shat on
by hardcores. However, I am afraid that the WEC will be forgotten not because people think less of it now, but because no one knew about it in the first place. Hardcores did, but the every-day common masses had no idea what the WEC was, sadly. Which is why it folded in the first place.
Your position is based on keeping the integrity of the WEC legacy maintained?
I am free because I choose to be so-Me
No. The WEC had many of the best P4P fighters in the game.
But my motivation to defend it certainly is. WEC will never die. Someone needs to make WEC shirts in the NWO font. I’d rock that urrday of the week.
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
Nope.
Bolts from the Blue // "It's a league game, Smokey." - Walter Sobchak
Bloody Elbow // "Mongo only pawn in game of life." - Mongo
Did you feel like that then
or is this a hindsight opinion?
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
I've been of the opinion for a while that the lower weight classes are not established.
I don’t doubt that there are very good fighters at featherweight and bantamweight, but they have not necessarily been challenged and are not necessarily fighting at their optimal weight.
Bolts from the Blue // "It's a league game, Smokey." - Walter Sobchak
Bloody Elbow // "Mongo only pawn in game of life." - Mongo
oh really?
I’d be interested to now the reasoning. I just can’t see it.
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
by SheepleBuster on Jan 2, 2011 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
If Edgar can pick Gray Maynard up over his head and slam him after getting decimated for a whole round, he can probably do the same to tiny lil’ non-wrestling Jose Aldo all day.
by JRN on Jan 2, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
Doesn't it hurt your takedowns
when you’ve got giant, pulsating bruises where both legs used to be?
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Jan 2, 2011 7:54 PM EST up reply actions
Josh was saved from certain death
when Aldo was injured. UFC is lucky as that would have been the first death in the Octagon.
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
catch me if you can @ MMA Answers
agreed and a really good piece
by the guy with the big nose on Jan 2, 2011 2:26 PM EST reply actions
I am still glowing over the hometown kid getting the first major upset of the year.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired. -Jonathan Swift
by Scott C. Broussard on Jan 2, 2011 2:26 PM EST reply actions
That’s the NYE show – still 2010.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired. -Jonathan Swift
by Scott C. Broussard on Jan 2, 2011 9:27 PM EST up reply actions
The FW division is in flux and isn't stable, but this isn't exactly a sign the division isn't viable yet
upsets happen. The division is exciting. Josh’s standup weakness was always glaringly apparent and the writing about Brown’s age and ring wear catching up with him was on the wall.
The UFC might be wise though to switch Kid back to 45. They don’t exactly need him at 35 where contenders are growing on trees.
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
But
Kid vs Faber is probably the higest profile 135lb match the can make. Not to take away from Cruz
Twitter @i_c_u_hater
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by Thats It For you! on Jan 2, 2011 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
Miguel Torres
Brian Bowles.
Dominic Cruz.
All have higher profile than Kid stateside.
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
True
But i think this match should happen first before the latter 2. And I dissagree with Bowles being a bigger name stateside than kid, dispite his victory over Torres.
Twitter @i_c_u_hater
http://dreamthemez.wordpress.com
http://dreamthemez.unfilteredmma.com
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by Thats It For you! on Jan 2, 2011 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
My wife and son know who brian bowles is and like him as a fighter
Kid Yamamoto? Who is that dad? is that like a super sayan?
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
my kid only know the fighters from DREAM
its all how you raise them. Im not letting him stay up late to watch ppv, but when HDnet always had “best of” on at supper time, we would watch. He actually told me how he would beat Overeem the other day.
Twitter @i_c_u_hater
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http://dreamthemez.unfilteredmma.com
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by Thats It For you! on Jan 2, 2011 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
WEC wasn't on PPV
My kid would kick the shit outch yo kid.
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
also
not saying you raise you kids bad, i read it and it seemed to come out that way, but not my intent
Twitter @i_c_u_hater
http://dreamthemez.wordpress.com
http://dreamthemez.unfilteredmma.com
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by Thats It For you! on Jan 2, 2011 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
Don’t worry. My four year old thinks he would whoop Brock Lesnar in thumb wrestling cause Brock doesn’t like to get hit. He thinks Fedor is awesome
Everything I know about Mixed Martial Arts I learned from pop-up video......and Joe Rogan
my 4 year olds p4p list
Overeem
Manhoef
Mousasi
Sakuraba
Unicron
Ben 10
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by Thats It For you! on Jan 2, 2011 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
No it's cool.
I don’t see the harm in letting my kids stay up late. I mean, if they get tired I let em drink some mountain dew or redbull. They don’t go to bed until midnight anyway, right after we eat dinner.
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
Will you adopt me?
Everything I know about Mixed Martial Arts I learned from pop-up video......and Joe Rogan
if youre cool with daddy playin' with your action figures that
you can’t touch under pain of grounding off your skinnamax subscription in your room.
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
Pundits getting Grispi vs. Poirer totally wrong calls into question ALDO’s standing? Oh brother. This isn’t a featherweight-only phenomenon. The moral of the story is that arbitrary, heavy-handed rankings generated by MMA writers don’t mean a whole lot, which is why the moral outrage that forced Pettis out of a title fight is so misguided. He is as liable to shred your LW rankings as Poirer just shredded your FW rankings.
by smoogy2 on Jan 2, 2011 2:30 PM EST reply actions 11 recs
I agree with this that the rankings are usually VERY bad reflections of who the “best” fighters are.
However, he’s right in saying the same thing i said months ago and got blasted for…that mediocre 155ers (known commodities) went down to 145 and were suddenly “elite.” that is a distinct trend from the fact that fighters are ranked 90% on visibility.
How is this different than Franklin being mediocre at LHW or Couture being ran out of HW?
Man a lot of guys change division. Is it possible they were just too small?
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
That’s basically the point. Guys fighting at lightweight who were too small for that division no longer risk taking a financial hit by cutting to featherweight. And, if recent history is any guide, unheralded undersized lightweights can do lots of damage one division below.
by JRN on Jan 2, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
BUT THE UFC IS BE ALL END ALL. IF YOU'RE NOT DOWN WITH THE UFC, WE GOT 2 WORDS FOR YA
/Hasn’t fought in the UFC shtick
WEC NEVER DIE
by TooLegitToQuit on Jan 2, 2011 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
If this shit aint green in under 25 minutes
like 34 puppies are goin into a croation river.
WEC 4 lyfe.
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
I feel terrible
I was 18 puppies in…
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
lmao
"In this fight, Anderson showed he was human," Nogueira said. "He showed he could be weak. But he showed he is a fighter and he brings something from his heart. It was beautiful."
by Broke Lesnar on Jan 3, 2011 9:58 AM EST up reply actions
Did Brown and Gamburyan really run roughshod over the division? No, they won some fights on TV in the only FW division most of these pundits watch, and as a result they skyrocket up the rankings without much merit. Same deal as Diego Sanchez winning two hand-picked 155lb fights and suddenly being considered #1 contender.
I guess I’m mostly agreeing with the last paragraph Snowden wrote. There are different threads in the FW division, Aldo is just the top of the WEC thread. For the last two years, the division has been exploding in Japan as well, with Hioki at the top of the Sengoku thread and Takaya atop the DREAM thread. But I disagree that this casts a shadow on Aldo as #1. I’d prefer to look at it as a 1a, 1b, 1c type situation. Grispi was obviously over-ranked, but Poirer beating him does not call into question the whole division.
Poirier and Pettis are not remotely analogous.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 2, 2011 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Poitier is a recast 155 pounder. He was a legitimate unknown with no track record at FW and no impressive wins at 155 either.
Pettis is a promotional champion who has been featured several times nationally. Rather than being underrated, he’s artificially inflated compared to the level of his competition.
Not similar at all.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 2, 2011 3:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
If you re -read smoogy’s greened comment you would know that he wasn’t comparing the 2 fighters. He was suggesting the effects of Pettis beating the UFC CHAMPION might call into question the status of other top UFC LW"s, just as Poirier beating Grispi is apprearently calling into question the status of other UFC FW’s. I think it’s a fair statement. If Pettis knocks out Maynard/Edgar do Bendo, Shalarous, Roller and Palasweski become the equals of Florian Soti, Diaz, Guida, Dunham etc.. Of course I dont think WEC guys would suddenly become the equals of the UFC vets but it is a reminder that the UFC is not head and shoulders above everyone else.
BTW, the Diamond is 9-1 and has only seen the 3rd round twice so I suspect he does have some impressive wins at 155.
Your beliefs become your reality.
by Hardy's in your face on Jan 2, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
BTW, the Diamond is 9-1 and has only seen the 3rd round twice so I suspect he does have some impressive wins at 155.
Lots of guys have impressive wins over people who aren’t top level fighters. Let’s reserve judgment. He was impressive last night for sure.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 2, 2011 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with this for the most part. We collectively get things wrong all the time. Here too, Pettis may very well walk in and destroy Edgar. But that being said, I don’t want them giving up title shots arbitrarily to prospects that might surprise us over fighters who are more deserving.
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
Agreed. I thnk Zuffa is trying to hard to promote the credibility of WEC fighters coming over by setting up these fights. Pettis is not deserving of a title shot because he hasn’t proven himself against the top of the light weight food chain. His being in the WEC doesn’t diminish his accomplishments, they just are not UFC caliber. Let him win a couple against proven top ten LW then we can talk title shot.
Everything I know about Mixed Martial Arts I learned from pop-up video......and Joe Rogan
oh my god. this is epic level succictness. exactly what I wanted to say.
That and I have never put much stock in WEC’s FW division as the best guys are still in Japan and coming up through the ranks (like when I called nunes beating brown, roop over KZ, etc.,)
by destructivist on Jan 2, 2011 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
KZ used to be an argument for Japan having better fighters tho
does not compute. warning warning.
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
Great article
A lot of good points in there. Depending on how their next fights go, I can truly see Guida or Edgar moving down to that 145 and reigning in that division
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
I really like this piece.
A perfect example will be Tyson Griffin and KenFlo. Griffin needs to drop down to 145 because the competition to compete in lightweight is to much for him at the moment, and he has like what 3 loses in a row in lightweight. I think he would be a great contender in there. KenFlo has choked in his last few fights. He got completely destroyed by Penn, and Maynard. He looked good against Gomi but when it comes to a big fight we see a different version of him. I think he also will be very nice to have in the featherweight division. Maybe Big Daddy will drop as well after getting KO by Danzig, FUCK even Gomi should drop. He is 1-2 in the UFC. All these names i mentioned in featherweight could make it one of the most dynamic weight classes the UFC has. Every fight would be balls to the walls, non stop action.
Last night's fights proved this division is unpredictable
It also proved that Aldo has a legitimate chance to beat both Edgar and Maynard. And so does Pettis. I don’t blame Aldo ducking Florian. Why fight Florian when you can fight Edgar. Am I the only one who sees Aldo smoking Edgar?
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
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I don't see him smoking him
I don’t know what I see. I know I love MMA and I know I want to see that fight at some point and the unpredictability is why!
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by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
well
Aldo is much more vicious than Maynard in stand up. He is almost the same size as Edgar I hear. He can defend take-down. And he can cripple Edgar with his leg kicks just like he did Urijah. I don’t know. After last night, I don’t consider Edgar that great. He showed a lot of heart. Kudos to him. But he lost a bit of momentum after dominating BJ in 5 rounds.
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
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by SheepleBuster on Jan 2, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
You hear.
I have never seen him fight with someone that has anywhere near the foot work Edgar has. Edgar can strike and takedown in the way that reminds me of GSP. He uses both simultaneously and keeps you guessing. I think it would a much closer fight then you think.
lotsa hate.
Edgar lost quality in your mind. Man that is priceless
by F'n Clownshoes on Jan 2, 2011 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
Not quality
Momentum. In all scenarios before the fight, I never thought he would get rocked like that.
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
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by SheepleBuster on Jan 2, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
What?
Any fighter can get caught. Look at Chris last night he was TKOed just like in his Silva fight because he got caught. I dont get how getting caught makes you think Edgar has lost Quality.
He wasnt? Cause in my eyes it looked like while he was anticipating a right he ate a left hook, which completely dropped him, AKA caught.
he was caught
by a multiple strikes by a better fighter with a better game plan. I agree.
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by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
Leben always gets caught
but he does not get knocked out or finished usually
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
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by SheepleBuster on Jan 2, 2011 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
lolwut
Imagine an anthropomorphic fruit right hur
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by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
yes
the guy is reckless. he counted on his chin one too many times.
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
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by SheepleBuster on Jan 2, 2011 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
By your definition anyone that gets knocked out gets “caught.” It’s the Chuck Liddell defense. Getting “caught” implies that a fighter ran into a really unlucky shot. You don’t get “caught” when your entire fight plan consists of moving forward with your hands down and getting blasted over and over on the chin.
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by Mike Fagan on Jan 2, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 8 recs
That doesnt automatically mean Aldo will destroy him.
Its like people writing Shogun off vs Chuck after the Coleman win. It was a ugly win, but he still came back.
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ok but
Gray throws hard. He’s not a great boxer like he thinks, but damn, he does throw hard. Would Jose clip him maybe. I just don’t think Jose carries Grays power or frame.
by F'n Clownshoes on Jan 2, 2011 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
Maynard is an elite boxer
in MMA terms bra
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by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
He lost momentum in your mind after taking a beating in the first and coming back to put on a FOTY performance against a guy who was suppose to run over him? Wow
Aldo, who is a great fighter, has not fought nowhere near the level of competition that Edgar has. Edgar is much quicker and a better wrestler/striker than Faber or Brown could ever wish to be.
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
Well
I’d be interested to hear what Jonathan thinks about that match up. I think Aldo >>> Edgar. We may see it happen soon enough.
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
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by SheepleBuster on Jan 2, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly.
Lets see Aldo fight someone from the UFC lightweight division that drops to Featherweight, a couple times. I still think he should fight KenFlo, he is coming off a loss so i dont see why he wont.
Selling Faber a little bit short here
Still a p4p fighter
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by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
Mike Brown
was on P4P list too. Seriously.
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by SheepleBuster on Jan 2, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
and he deserved to be.
at the time. So was Liddell. Brown’s getting up there in age.
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by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
OK.
All I’m saying is that Aldo needs to fight better competition now that he is in the UFC before we start talk about him and Edgar fighting.
well.
He was offered Florian. Why not Edgar. It’s a super fight. What is Aldo gonna do? Fight Josh Grispi?
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
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by SheepleBuster on Jan 2, 2011 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
Hell No!
Not after Josh fight last night. Edgar has to beat Maynard then Pettis before we think about him fighting Edgar for a super fight. Also I think Dana is gonna have Some Lightweights drop and try to give Aldo some competition. He needs to defend his UFC belt at least two times, before we talk super fights.
My Point is
Aldo is so ahead of others in his division, I don’t think he should stick around after he beats a couple of guys. Hominick and so other dude
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
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by SheepleBuster on Jan 2, 2011 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
True.
But I still think if he wants to move up in a weight class it should be a natural transition that wont have any effect on his performance
Remember when BJ and Anderson had no competition in their weight classes?
Like a year ago? machida as well. We’re awful quick to execute divisions. Look at me blowing WW’s brains out in this very thread matter of fact.
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by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
True.
However Aldo has competition in his Weight class and it will take him a while to clear it all out. As Lightweights get knocked down to feather, it makes more people for Aldo to clear.
The FW Division will Flesh Out
Aldo can’t even fight for a few months. In that time guys could emerge, LWs could lose and drop to FW. Hell Edgar could lose a rematch to Maynard or a fight with Pettis and drop immediately. I wouldn’t be trying too hard to force Aldo to LW yet.
I’m not selling Faber short. They guy is a great fighter himself, but he’s where he is because he couldn’t takedown Brown or Aldo. Edgar has outwrestled a much bigger and stonger Maynard and took BJ Penn down with relative ease. Fact is Edgar has a much better skillset than Faber
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
Better footwork, not a better American BJJ game
do NOT fuck with team Alpha Male’s wrestling based BJJ. It’s a great way to get some Joe-Jitsu in dat ass.
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by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
He couldn't? You say it as if Aldo did not cripple him on purpose
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by SheepleBuster on Jan 2, 2011 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
wouldn't he do that to Edgar too?
Take his mobility from him? He is a good enough BJJ to survive a take down or two by Edgar.
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by SheepleBuster on Jan 2, 2011 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
I can see him wanting to do that.
I just think Edgar foot work will play a big part in this fight. He mixes strikes with Takedowns very well. Faber does not.
also the cage is bigger, and Frankie is accustomed to using his range in it.
"In this fight, Anderson showed he was human," Nogueira said. "He showed he could be weak. But he showed he is a fighter and he brings something from his heart. It was beautiful."
by Broke Lesnar on Jan 3, 2011 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
Ya.
Every time someone says Edgar will get smocked he pulls something out of his ass and makes a comeback. They said it when he fought Sean and he won. They said against BJ both times and he won.
After his fight last night will people finally give Edgar his respect he is due.
I respect Edgar. He is a great fighter
Aldo is just better.
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" - Zoroaster
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by SheepleBuster on Jan 2, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
Frankie would without a doubt beat everyone Aldo has fought.
I wouldn’t say the same for Aldo at all.
"In this fight, Anderson showed he was human," Nogueira said. "He showed he could be weak. But he showed he is a fighter and he brings something from his heart. It was beautiful."
by Broke Lesnar on Jan 3, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
Edgar is really turning into 1 of my favorite fighters.
I’ve always kept an eye on him when he was featured on True Life: I’m an MMA fighter on MTV a few years back.
He improves every fight, he had better takedown defense than Maynard, and he threw Maynard around like an red headed orphan child when he got ahold of him. That slam was amazing.
by TooLegitToQuit on Jan 2, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t see Aldo smoking him at all. Edgar got caught with a hook by Maynard, who does have some good power, and he recovered amazingly. Anyone can get caught. The way he was able to fight the next five rds shows how impressive of a fighter he truly is.
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
Good Points
I do think that Jose Aldo would destroy both Josh Grispi and Dustin Poirier. This division won’t seem so unpredictable once Aldo starts claiming souls.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
Great post Snowden, completely agreed on points! You tell ‘em what’s up! These thoughts really started hitting me when Manny Gamburyan of all people went down and got a title shot. It will take a couple of years for this division to really settle in now in the UFC. Aldo is definitely great, but it’s hard to tell exactly how great just yet.
All due respect, but this story would have benefited from you bringing up your own story from two days ago praising Grispi as the future is here and acknowledging just how far off you were. There’s nothing wrong with being wrong – we all do it – but it seems a bit disingenuous for you to not mention your own piece from two days ago in an article whose thesis is that none of us know anything about the 145lb division.
by mma_critic on Jan 2, 2011 2:43 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
lol
mma_critic has a point, but next time drive it home with “IT STINKS”
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by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 2:44 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Or inappropriate since the post was explicitly linked and implicitly referenced.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 2, 2011 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
Considering I linked to that story in both of my posts this morning you are out of line.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 2, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t understand why people can’t take a minute to actually look before criticizing. Everyone wants to be the first person to bitch at Snowden that they unfairly jump the gun and yell at him for stuff that he did right. Take your finger off the trigger and take a deep breath and look for the link before you post. As I was reading this post I figured Snowden had originally not put the link in but then edited it because I know I saw it when I read it. But he actually had it in the whole time.
Hardcore MMA fan since UFC 99
by ChiCubs23 on Jan 2, 2011 5:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I vehemently....agree?
Great points Snowden. I’ve been trying to convince my friends of this for awhile but was never able to put my arguments into words effectively.
Aldo is really really good against the competition we’ve seen him against, but until the division has been at this level for a few years we can’t make statements about how he is P4P.
I think we can because
regardless of what you think about Aldo, Brown, or Manny, they’re all great wrestlers and this can’t be denied and Aldo shrugged off their takedowns with ease. Like they were children.
Also, Aldo has submitted some of the worlds best BJJ guys in BJJ competition. While BJJ isn’t MMA, clearly his ground game is legit.
And his hand speed and KO power can’t be an illusion. Fast is fast and powerful is powerful.
Weather or not he has fought guys that have mythical p4p skills, his clearly demonstrated, dominant skills can still be graded.
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by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
Faber****
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by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
I see your point
To me Aldo is kinda like Fedor to some degree.
He has tons of obvious skill and ability but the competition he’s facing isn’t up to par. Either that or he’s just so damn good that all the people he fights look like chumps when they step into the cage with him.
I’m leaning toward the latter but I guess I’m just being difficult to impress
Fedor has the best resume of any fighter ever
Oh snap. Here we go again.
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
What happened to my post?
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by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
jesus heratio guadalupe christius maxiumus desmis merdius nunez jones-drew
I’m an idiot
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by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
Great article, but a little too critical of Aldo
Aldo’s wins are all dominant, much like Poirier’s win over Grispi. Aldo is in a league of his own and I think he has the potential to hold both the FW and LW belts in UFC.
"When I beat Wanderlei I’m a take his belt, pull his pants down and spank him for being so ugly" - Quinton Jackson
But that’s based on beating Brown and Gamburyan. He could be as good as he looks. Or he could be good at beating up fighters who aren’t that great.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 2, 2011 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
It's not who but how
Why the hate on Brown? His age catching up to him has nothing to do with his recent rocky results then?
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by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
He’s an also ran at 155 who beat up a guy who everyone said was the best because he beat a shot Jens Pulver and has a cleft in his chin. I don’t think he merited consideration as one of the best fighters in the world.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 2, 2011 3:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
expect a fanpost about the insensitivity to cleft chin genotypes dude
you done fukt up.
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by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
Faber also beat Fernandes, Cruz, and Curran. Jens was his showcase.
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What did it showcase, that he can beat up a guy whose best years are long gone. While Jens had heart, it was his skill that was questionable.
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that was Jens last hurah
He wasn’t as good as he once was, but that night he was almost as good once as he ever was. That bout and camp zapped the rest of his life force.
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
Yea but the entire division is poopy
didn’t you read the article? Little guys just can’t fight man. Phil Baroni would wreck shop if he found a shrink ray.
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
Everybody loses fights in this sport. Anybody can twist enough results to prove that every fighter in history was never any good.
by rabrown on Jan 2, 2011 3:24 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Isn't the whole thrust of your post
about how the “also rans” from the lightweight division are going to come make hay in the featherweight division. Like, you know, Brown did?
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
No, my point is what will happen when guys who actually win in the big leagues drop down. Brown is the 2009 example. More to come.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 2, 2011 4:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
That's a very vague answer
as is much of this post. Saying that a division is volatile is virtually unfalsifiable. It’s pure opinion.
(Also, I’m not sure why guys who “actually win in the big leagues” would drop down to featherweight.)
I’d be more interested to hear what 155’s you think are going to actually drop down and stir up the division. That would be a far more intriguing piece.
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
But what about Faber?
He didn’t finish him but he made a joke of him for 5 rounds. I don’t want to take anything away from your article, because I totally agree with it. I’m just stuck on the Aldo hype train.
"When I beat Wanderlei I’m a take his belt, pull his pants down and spank him for being so ugly" - Quinton Jackson
Who do you have to beat in 145 to be great then?
The top of the Mountian is Aldo, lets say he loses his next fight, is it because of his lack of greatness, or that the person that fights him is on another level of greatness?
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by Thats It For you! on Jan 2, 2011 3:19 PM EST reply actions
I think you are kind of missing the point. Snowden is pointing out that Grispi, who everyone hailed has this great fighter, was dominated by a guy who who suddenly dropped down to 145 from 155 because he couldn’t hang at LW.
He’s not tying to say Aldo is the best at 145 right now, or isn’t great. He simply stating that with the move to the UFC, Aldo will suddenly will be facing higher quality competition as UFC lw’s move down to 145. There will see if he truly is great as everyone thinks, or if it was all a matter of looking great against lesser competiton (like Grispi). It’s an unknown
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
damn, lots of typos in there
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
i think in typos
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by Thats It For you! on Jan 2, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
Everyone also knew Grispi's standup was basic
and very, very rudimentary, this wasn’t the paradigm-shift in the division this has been billed as.
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by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
Jonathan, is it possible for an undersized also ran to have just been flat out too small?
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For the sake of argument, here is how I would rank the FW Top 10:
1. Jose Aldo
2. Hatsu Hioki
3. Michihiro Omigawa
4. Hiroyuki Takaya
5. Marlon Sandro
6. Bibiano Fernandes
7. Joe Warren
8. Patricio Freire
9. Diego Nunes
10. Mark Hominick
…you’re surprised?
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
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by Derek Suboticki on Jan 2, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Think of how many big FW fights have happened in the last two years in Japan.
Kanehara-Hioki
Omigawa-Sandro
Omigawa-Kanehara
Bibiano-Warren
Takaya-Bibiano
Omigawa-Hioki
Bibiano-Hansen
Omigawa-Takaya
Takaya-Hansen
Hioki-Takeshi
Maeda-Escovedo
Omigawa-Escovedo
Hioki-Sandro
Takaya-Bibiano II
Don't forget Kid-Kanehara
Imagine if kid got the decision he earned there…
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe our rankings have migrated
too WEUFC heavy.
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
Get kevin iole off the consensus rankings ASAP.
I’m voting smoogy.
by destructivist on Jan 2, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
I vote Subo off the Island
in favor of myself.
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
a coup d'etat eh?
we all know what to expect with subo but when you look at the point totals he gives credit where credit is due.
iole on the other hand just pulls up the UFC roster and ranks the guys as to who he thinks is best and worst. its actually sad that this troll gets to put in a vote on one of the better ranking systems. thats why fightmatrix and guys like breen hold it down.
by destructivist on Jan 2, 2011 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, because it’s cool to forget all about Takaya being shellacked by Garcia and Swanson in the WEC. And who the hell did Joe Warren ever fight to get ranked?
1. Jose Aldo
2. Hatsu Hioki
3. Marlon Sandro
4. Manny Gamburyan
5. Diego Nunes
6. Mike Brown
7. Michihiro Omigawa
8. Chad Mendes
9. Mark Hominick
10. Raphael Assuncao
Takaya also lamped Hioki and Antonio Carvalho when they were highly ranked prior to his WEC run. But rankings don’t go backwards in time like that. You didn’t put Imanari above Brown, right?
Takaya just completed the best year of his career, where he KO’d a former Shooto champ and a former WEC champ before winning the DREAM belt. He has earned his position in the division.
He has, yeah, and no I wouldn’t put Imanari above Brown. I had Takaya way high in my top ten after the wins you mentioned but then obviously he got drilled by Garcia which drops him downwards, particularly when he followed that by losing to Swanson.
My point is this. Surely you have to take into account Takaya getting whacked in the US and in turn then you have to take into question how good he (and his opposition in Japan) actually are when you see him winning over there. I mean, the guys he lost to in WEC aren’t even the guys you’d consider top of the tree there. I don’t see how you can put Takaya over say, Mendes, when Takaya only beat Beebe who is 135lbs, Hansen who was 0-1 at FW going into their fight, and Mendes on the other hand threw Swanson around and then went on to firmly beat Javi Vazquez as well.
Thankfully though this argument will be put to death when Mendes beats Omigawa up next month. :)
top WEC guys, specially Faber and Torres carried too much hype during some time. Faber was crushed by Tyson Griffin. He is great fighter, but he is another undersized LW who failed in the upper weight class. I mean, the majority of the 145 stateside tried or wanted to be 155, because his natural weight class barely drew attention in the past. Brown, Faber, Gamburian are good fighters, natural 145 pounders, whose success was more based on facing not top competition than in talent. Aldo deserves his credit though, he has smashed them all in impressive fashion.
And Grispi was not the top challenge in the division. Everybody knows the real challenge for Aldo and the most compelling fight on 145, probably one of the best matches today, is Aldo vs Hioki.
by Carlos Estrada-Ibars Martínez on Jan 2, 2011 3:35 PM EST reply actions
Faber lost to Tyson at 155 when there was no classes for him.
He also defeated Bibiano Fernandes
by TooLegitToQuit on Jan 2, 2011 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
Faber lost to Tyson at 145 actually
Tyson has even talked about how brutal the weight cut was for him. That fight was the shit. Everyone just remembers the KO though, probably because they only say the highlight. Faber was fairly competitive.
by David Castillo on Jan 2, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
Was it at 145? I thought it was at Lightweight.
The fight is on YouTube somewhere.
by TooLegitToQuit on Jan 2, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
If I recall without googlang
it was for the Gladiator challenge BW title which was really 145.
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by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
If I never hear that Frankie Edgar is too small for 155 again, it will be too soon.
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
What does that mean? Are you disputing he is small for 155. Do your eyes work?
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 2, 2011 4:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I rag on subo as much as anyone but he clearly said he doesn’t want to hear that he is too small for the division. Not small. Easy Jonathan.
How could he be too small if he’s competitive with the best fighters in the UFC?
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
Excellent question
Jon tweeted during the first that Edgar had no business in the division.
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jan 2, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
@mmanation Never been more clear that Edgar is a 145 pound fighter. He and Maynard are clearly not in the same weight class. He’s got guts.
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jan 2, 2011 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
Bangarang rufio
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by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, looking at them they didn’t appear to be in the same weight class. Are you disputing that?
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 2, 2011 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
Um, that’s not what you said. You said Edgar was not a 155 pound fighter.
And yes, I am disputing even that. Frankie Edgar is the UFC LW Champion and ranked #1 worldwide at 155. He’s a 155 lb fighter, in the same weight class as Maynard.
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jan 2, 2011 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
That’s not what I said. You posted it above. My tweet had nothing to do with his obvious talent and success. Just looking at them in the staredown they looked like fighters from different weight classes.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 2, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
So you never said that Edgar was too small for the division?
All he was commenting on was that myth. This is a lot of nitpickery here.
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
You're right.
I misinterpreted. My mistake.
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jan 2, 2011 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
The thing that weirds me out most about the Snowden/Subo rivalry
Is how they always call eachother by their first names.
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
I like it, Neil
it’s a nice change of pace.
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Jan 2, 2011 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
I think it's creepy, I'm gonna stick with last names maybe
Mr. Piggy.
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
This is a rivalry the way “Peter King versus nut jobs on Twitter” is a rivalry.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jan 2, 2011 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
Peter King is the definition of a hack.
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jan 2, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
hahaha
Bolts from the Blue // "It's a league game, Smokey." - Walter Sobchak
Bloody Elbow // "Mongo only pawn in game of life." - Mongo
Do you really want to play the role of Peter King in any analogy?
Bolts from the Blue // "It's a league game, Smokey." - Walter Sobchak
Bloody Elbow // "Mongo only pawn in game of life." - Mongo
Fair enough.
Bolts from the Blue // "It's a league game, Smokey." - Walter Sobchak
Bloody Elbow // "Mongo only pawn in game of life." - Mongo
or at least his travel account
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Jan 2, 2011 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
He is small for 155, but clearly not "too small."
Bolts from the Blue // "It's a league game, Smokey." - Walter Sobchak
Bloody Elbow // "Mongo only pawn in game of life." - Mongo
yeah but lets not pretend we’re not intrigued by how he would do at 145
by destructivist on Jan 2, 2011 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
Lots of things intrigue me
But Frankie held his own against his only loss and one of the most gigantic 155ers in the game. He can fight wherever he wants without hearing a peep from me.
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jan 2, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
Subo everytime I wish you were euthanized in a horrible, painful way
You do something like this and TOTALLY REDEEM YOURSELF. I’m so taking you off my flaming poop bag list. Until you talk about Fedor again anyway.
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 4:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Size isn’t everything. Just because Gray is the Biggest 155’er, doesn’t mean he is the best.
I’ll take speed and agility over size anyday
by TheBiggertheyare... on Jan 2, 2011 6:57 PM EST up reply actions
I know that’s what she said, but she was lying.
Luke: What was our best moment?
Nate: When I banned Subo?
Luke: That was a good one.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jan 2, 2011 6:58 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
If you can’t blow out the back, might as well blow out the walls
by TheBiggertheyare... on Jan 2, 2011 7:02 PM EST up reply actions
Overractive mma fans are overracting.
Poirier wasn’t as high profile as Grispi but was only a few fights behind him. I think beating Jens Pulver carried too much weight for Grispi if anything.
Just because a few guys are having rough first fights in the UFC doesn’t mean that much. It’s a new organization and a new atmosphere for most of these guys.
I think it just shows how far ahead of everybody Jose Aldo is and will continue to be, and make his trip to lightweight that much more exciting.
I wouldn’t advise betting on mma if I were you, not even with monopoly money. If you can’t watch aldo fight and think he is one of the top p4p in the world, there’s no hope for you.
I heard this exact same shit about Jon Jones, Reem and Cain before all of their fights. Sure there is merit to their argument just as well as yours, but it is so clueless you just can’t fix it. You can’t fix stupid i’m afraid.
This kind of uncertainty pulls down some favourites lines at the sportsbooks, and i love raking it in. More money to me $$$.
P4P as a concept is pretty nebulous to say the least. What I don’t really like about this article is that “hindsight says I’m right” thing. You can always formulate some kind of revisionist logic to support an article, especially when your argument is about something that is impossible to prove in the first place. Alas, it’s pretty good, and yes maybe we just don’t know much about Aldo. But also, it might’ve just been a bad matchup for Grispi.
I was so sure Diego Nunez wasn't making it out of the Las Vegas dessert alive..
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 2, 2011 8:44 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Word up Snowden!
I recently did a fanpost about this and the other featherweight fights from dynamite and sengoku’s nye event.
5 top 10 featherweights lost fights over the weekend. The featherweight division is showing its age, by this time next year with all the ex lightweights filling the division, 145 will eventually solidify itself as a substantial weight class.
But for now it is a work in progress.
People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant.
- Helen Keller
Or it's deep
Grispi is super young and his awful standup was hardly a secret. Brown is on the way wrong side of 30 and showing his age and has been for a while honestly. Most of us haven’t even seen the fight to truly judge it anyway. All the other “upset” were known fighters losing to other respected known fighters. The three Japan winners of these shocking upsets are top ten or were recently top ten level guys anyway. The other two fights are common and easily explained MMA phenomena.
I think it’s ridiculous to use the awsome unpredictablity of MMA against it.
Wolfgangsta @ www.ninjasplace.com
by Urijah Bieber on Jan 3, 2011 2:14 AM EST up reply actions
I agree, very good post
Another great example of this premise was Miguel Torres in the BW division. People were talking about him as a top ten pfp guy and how his record was comparable to Fedor’s. We can all say now he is good but was overrated.
Aldo may be that good, but we should be cautious about declaring him at the very top of our pfp list just yet.
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