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Does the TapouT Sale Say Anything About the UFC's Business Prospects?

Md__ufc_119_mediumI saw this Jim Ross blog post and it got me thinking:

 There is little buzz for UFC 119 featuring Frank Mir vs. Cro Cop on September 25. UFC will have to turn up the burners for the 'go home' promotional time to encourage an acceptable PPV number. It seems as if UFC's expectations for this fight are not lofty but will be for the much anticipated Brock Lesnar vs. Cain Velasquez Heavyweight Title fight In October that some feel will be Lesnar's most challenging fight to date.

Geno Mrosko at Cage Side Seats elaborates:

There are some in the MMA world that believe the UFC, and even MMA as a whole, has a problem with oversaturation. I'm one of these people. It's to the point now that each month there are usually 4 or 5 fight cards between the major promotions. That's every month without a break. Absence truly does make the heart grow fonder. Major sports leagues, most notably the NFL, which has the longest one, all have an offseason. It allows us as fans a break from the sport and time to miss it. You never get that in MMA and because of that, you end up with cards like UFC 119.

...
By running so many shows every year, the UFC, in effect, forces our hands as far as what we want to purchase. Yes, they give us free shows scattered throughout the year, such as the next numbered event after this one, UFC 120, but the amount of PPV shows still dictates a pick and choose mentality.

This brings us to the TapouT sale. There were a couple of things mentioned in the Bloomberg article about the sale that worried fans:

Last year, TapouT introduced a mid-tier brand, TapouT MPS, to supplement sales to department stores, and is weighing a discount line that could sell at Wal-Mart Stores Inc. and other mass chains, Caldwell said. TapouT's Hitman brand already sells at Sears Holdings Corp.'s Kmart stores. Salter predicts he'll double revenues in the next two years.

The founders have already branched out, with plans for more TapouT gyms, a new energy drink in Canada and a documentary unit. They're peddling combat cages similar to those used in bouts to fitness centers and other interested parties, including a Saudi prince who flew them to the Middle East earlier this year, Caldwell said.

Star-divide

Zach Arnold transcribes the TapouT Radio show where the company's founders discussed the sale:

"NO! NEVER! No. I think there was a lot of confusion. You know, I mean, these guys are trying to put together, they did an interview, I don't know where that I came from, I saw it and I did an interview with them but they got some facts wrong. They were kind of mixed up. You know, sometimes people... we do interviews with people who don't understand the MMA space and sometimes we try to explain it to them and they, you know, it gets it's like you know somewhere it gets lost in translation but no that's not true. They asked, the question was are you guys going to Walmart and I said no, I said we do have brand segmentation where we have other brands that we've developed that maybe in the future, you know, could go to Walmart but it wouldn't be the Tapout brand, by no means."

Arnold also comments (italics mine):

Despite repeated statements noting excitement and confidence in the new deal, it was very clear that the goal was to try to repeat the positives as much as possible because people are in the industry who are jaded are probably wondering if Tapout's in it for the long-term or if this was a short-term play. There's nothing wrong with cashing out and making a profit, but obviously the sale naturally raised questions about whether or not Tapout was generating enough money to cover their debts and if they had the infrastructure in place to keep hold as a dominant player in their field. Plus, throw in concerns about UFC's over-saturation of PPVs and the issues UFC is having drawing local fans at live shows and you have a company in Tapout who needs UFC to remain strong in order for their business to remain strong as well.

The Fight Lawyer has more about the TapouT deal:

Lost in the news, however, is any explanation concerning why TapouT was sold, whether the acquired entity has worked out any (continued) relationship with Zuffa going forward --a critical component of any TapouT revenue stream I would imagine, and, of most interest to me, whether the acquisition has any connection to the SEC action against Danny Pang and PEMGroup, an Irvine, California based private equity firm that TapouT "secured a multimillion-dollar line of credit from."

Read the whole Fight Opinion and Fight Lawyer pieces to really understand this stuff.

As always, the realities of big business are complicated and multi-faceted, but you have to wonder if the TapouT guys are hedging their bets because they're worried that the UFC boom is winding down and we're heading into an era where Zuffa and MMA will strive to consolidate the gains made in the last five years rather than continuing to grow rapidly.

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very hard to know being on the outside.

there are a lot of reasons they could have decided to sell the company.

www.tapology.com | twitter @tapology

by GregS123 on Sep 9, 2010 11:31 AM EDT reply actions  

Yep.

They are both still working with the brand too, so I have no idea what the sale means. Cashing out for a large sum of money and securing your families financial future is a smart and safe play. Without knowing details or terms all we can do is speculate.

by truck on Sep 9, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

lulz

Always pick a case in the high teens

"Frankie Edgar... beat the fuck out of Snooki, that's why she looks like Dio after Sabbath." --Joey Diaz

MMA For Real

by Anthony Pace on Sep 9, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I could go off for about 30 minutes on why a lot of the speculation gathered in this article is incorrect,

but it’s not worth my time to write it nor your time to read my ramblings. The short version is that MMA merchandise sales are still trending upward rapidly. Although there will eventually be a “niche plateau” it is still a hugely profitable business if handled anywhere close to properly.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Sep 9, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes

but just pre-peak is the perfect time to cash out. if you wait until the decline, you’ll be a waiting motherfucker (as Bushwick Bill would say)

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Sep 9, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think I got my point across properly.

In Japan, it was a mountain with a peak. The fad grew, it was tremendously profitable, and now it’s falling down the back side of the mountain. The North American market is wholly different in about 80 kajillion ways, which I won’t detail, but it sets up that market to plateau rather than peak. We aren’t looking at an inevitable decline nor is there a foreshadowed decline, but there’s a cap on how far MMA can go. That cap is still immensely profitable for businesses within the niche.

With the international push that the UFC is having, some brands saw that they didn’t have the know-how or connections to expand with it by themselves, hence the sales. Brand that were comfortable with their international presence stand a lot to gain while others that were either not set up for expansion or poorly managed to start will need to find new partners.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Sep 9, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with this...

Unless companies are predicting a collapse in the market there is no reason to bail.

by truck on Sep 9, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

agree with the plateau

rather than peak theory.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Sep 9, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

but investors buy the promise of growth

and if TapouT waited for the plateau to be obvious they wouldn’t be selling for nearly as much.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Sep 9, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's absolutely true, but this article still misses the point.

MMA and the UFC are still growing, and the end of that upswing is not near yet. Tapout was going to struggle to expand internationally with the same strength they have in the domestic market, so the owners got their cash now while maintaining positions with the brand and putting growth in the hands of those more established. This is just about one brand. I think that trying to make this sale a referendum on the state of the whole sport is misguided.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Sep 9, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Maybe, but who is to say where it will plateau? I think it will be somewhere lower than it is today, so there will be a decline. There’s a huge difference between average PPV buys settling in at 300k or 600k. That’s not to say that 300k is anything to sneeze at…it’s pretty amazing when you think about it. But it’s best to sell when there are still fights on the horizon that look like they can do 1mil PPV buys with the average PPV being 500k than having the average PPV be 300k with peaks around 700k-800k.

This is uncharted territory though…no one really knows.

by JimmersonzGlove on Sep 9, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m just throwing this out there, but it’s possible that whoever inherited Mask’s stake in the company may have wanted to sell, and perhaps this was the most effective way to raise cash to facilitate a transaction.

And how knows? Maybe Skrape and Punkass wanted to cash out. Those guys have put a lot of work into Tapout and perhaps they wanted to secure their future with money in the bank.

by MMABookworm on Sep 9, 2010 11:34 AM EDT reply actions  

No it's a lack of PRO WRESTLING that's stunting MMA/UFC's growth

Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.

by SSreporters on Sep 9, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Wrestling arrogance is what made the UFC's growth possible.

Vince McMahon had the contractual right to block SpikeTV from televising TUF 1 after WWE RAW.

Fortunately for MMA, Vince is an arrogant bastard and thought there was no way in hell that MMA would ever challenge the WWE for PPV dominance. That has to be one of the biggest fuckups of Vince’s career, ranking right up there with the XFL and Brawl for it All debacles.

by Steve4192 on Sep 9, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think there is something to do be seen here. I definitely feel that MMA, namely the UFC, will hit a plateau, then we will see from there.

I think it is not really over saturation, but rather the age of the sport. It has really only been big in the US for less than 20 years and only the last few (the TUF era) has it been huge. The sport has grown very fast in this time and now, everything else is catching up to it. If you look at the history of major sports, all have had their ups and down and even struggled to survive, leading to folding, merging, etc. How many of us are watching the AFL kick off their season this weekend?

The other thing is, we are at a crossroads, fighter wise. All the familiar names that “made” the sport, are aging, fading and retiring (or should be). Meanwhile, new names are rising and attempting to replace them. Fans are still working to accept these new names and make them as popular as the guys they are replacing. This happens in every sport and the entertainment field as well.

If you look around, the sport is still exploding at the local levels, and by that I don’t mean regional shows. I am talking about more and more people gaining interest. More and more schools opening up every day. And more people taking up the sport or its different components.

Then, of course, there is the economy right now. It is what it is, but saying that it has no impact would be very foolish.

Maybe MMA/UFC needs to go by “the reports of my death are greatly exaggerated”, lol.

by BJJDenver on Sep 9, 2010 11:36 AM EDT reply actions  

Don't see why Tapout would have any debt issues

T-shirt making doesn’t sound very capital intensive in fact you can outsource most of the manufacturing and not have to have physical plants at all, their stuff most likely sells at an extremely high margin.

Marketing is a big expense, most likely the sale occurred for cash out and not debt reasons.

by IpullguardIRL on Sep 9, 2010 11:36 AM EDT reply actions  

Yeah, this is not a we need to sell or go out of business situation. It just seems that this was probably a good opportunity for them to cash in.

by BJJDenver on Sep 9, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

I still don't see what's wrong with letting people

choose which PPV they want to buy and which one to pass on. It’s not like the UFC reports to shareholders on a quarterly basis.

I do think they’ve hit a PPV plateau, but there is still more to see regarding their global business and a stronger TV deal.

by Revolver on Sep 9, 2010 11:43 AM EDT reply actions  

I will be buying it, but I can certainly see how people may not be interested in spending $$$ on Mir vs CC and Nog vs Bader. I couldn’t fault anyone for not spending the cash on that.

by BJJDenver on Sep 9, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

I would buy it if I was home...

I have a wedding to attend that night, a wedding social that I can’t attend, plus one of my buddies is boxing that night (which I also can’t attend). There is a zero percent chance of me seeing this one live.

by truck on Sep 9, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

And that is just it. You and I and most of us here are the foundation of their PPV business, It is the fringe that determines the success of any PPV that I don’t think will be buying this, but should show up in force for Lesnar/Cain.

by BJJDenver on Sep 9, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

i consider myself to be the avg to above avg buyer

Personally, I buy about 50-75% of every PPV that the UFC puts on and am really on the fence about purchasing 119. NOt just b/c of the card itself, but b/c I simply can’t afford to keep shelling out $50 every single month.

I wish they would just reduce the cost of a non title fight PPV event/card and leave the $50-$55 one’s for the title fights. It would definitely increase my ability to pay for more of these events….and i’m sure i’m not alone here

by BeeTrain on Sep 9, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

You gotta get some friends to chip in. I made a no trade rule (beer\food). I want $5 cash and I’ll cook. PPV’s end up costing about $10 bucks when it’s all said and done.

If you want to hear my opinion on Les Miles go to BJPenn.com.

by DayGeaux on Sep 9, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thankfully for me

I have a roommate that will split costs and I have another couple friends who host parties so I have options.

by truck on Sep 9, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I live in a city where you can always find a bar showing the event. This isn’t a small thing as the bars pay a chunk of change to show the events. The cover is usually five bucks.

I invite friends to the good shows and once I get a group that’s actually into MMA as I am I’ll start splitting PPVs.

That said, I’ll be getting choosier which events I promote to the friends so they don’t burn out before they get into it.

by Rufford on Sep 9, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

i hear ya

i do the same thing, but it costs even more some times to go out and watch the fights at a bar. And you have these factors:
1. cost of admission (depending on bar): $5-$10
2. you have to get there an hour before just to get a seat, so in essence you’re there for a total of 3-5 hours, thus the need to eat/drink. cost of eating/drinking for 3-5 hours: $20-$40 (depending on the place and how thirsty i am!)
3. having to deal w/loud mouth drunks and inability to hear
4. risk of driving home
*
thus the reason why i buy so many fights at home and why my wallet is seemingly empty all the time.

by BeeTrain on Sep 9, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

wow.

This is my exact same thought process in ordering fights at my home.

Ill drop 50$ on the ppv and about 20$ to grill out for everyone that comes over.

I dont ask for money for the ppv but i usually get 5-10$ from 3 or 4 of my nicer friends. So its about the same price as going to a bar (i cant sit at a bar for 3 hours and not drop 50$)

Plus its priceless (to me) to sit in my Lazy-boy with my exotic smoking lamp by my side and have the ability to pause/rewind/record the fights.

I dont like to fight the bar crowd… cuz sometimes the bar crowd actually fights. I guess theres something about watching BROCKLESNAR fight that makes people in Affliction shirts think theyre fucking Frank Dux.

A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
Proud BElitest.

by MMArazorback on Sep 9, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree.

A couple of my buddies (fringe fans) have expressed interest in this one, but for the under card not the main event. They probably won’t be watching it unless I order the event though.

by truck on Sep 9, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have a wedding to go to as well

Love is just such bullshit ruined my saturday!

by Papercut Elbow on Sep 9, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wedding social? You must be from Manitoba…

by zorba on Sep 9, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

So am I. I have a love/hate relationship with this place. At the end of the day, at least it’s not Saskatchewan.

by zorba on Sep 9, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lol... Yeah.

I have no problem with Winnipeg or Manitoba. Low cost of living, commuting is quick and easy, and we have just about everything that the bigger cities have.

by truck on Sep 9, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

concerns about UFC’s over-saturation of PPVs and the issues UFC is having drawing local fans at live shows and you have a company in Tapout who needs UFC to remain strong

Over-saturation or not, PPV numbers on the year are going up and most events are drawing enough fans to generate 2 – 4 million dollars in revenue. I don’t see the UFC as hurting that bad. They know some shows won’t do well and it seems fans are becoming more educated. They know what cards to buy and which ones to sleep on, so that means they are paying attention the whole time.

Food for thought. The UFC is doing record numbers this year with a very expensive product to follow. Where would the numbers be if the economy wasn’t so terrible right now?

by truck on Sep 9, 2010 11:45 AM EDT reply actions  

I meant that it looks like it’s advertising Mir vs. Nogueira still. What was that argument about other organizations being terrible for pushing one fighter over another in a fight?

perception is reality

by Marvin Malehooves on Sep 9, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah I can see it

It’s hideous but then again I suck at art.

Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.

by SSreporters on Sep 9, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ha

you made it?

perception is reality

by Marvin Malehooves on Sep 9, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

If I did yeah it would look like that.

Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.

by SSreporters on Sep 9, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

The other thing to remember

Is that at the end of the day, TapouT has become a fashion company. As the fashions change, so does the popularity of any brand. They have gone from a fight wear company to a mainstream clothing brand. Them putting out different levels of their brand signifies an attempt to stay relevant and keep open as many revenue streams as possible. For instance, you don’t see nearly as many Ed Hardy shirts as you might have 2 years ago. I see the sale as more of a smart business move, than any type of panic about the popularity of MMA. Since when is starting a company and making it as valuable as possible, then selling it for huge gains a bad thing?

by BJJDenver on Sep 9, 2010 11:50 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

This is correct

Catching lightning in a bottle is tough enough; keeping it there is a prodigious task. The Ed Hardy analogy is right on. There’s nothing more fickle than fashion, and it takes a creative juggernaut to stay on top of trends. Seeing 40 year old guys with beer-guts sporting a TapouT shirt is the fastest way to kill that cachet with the 20-somethings, and they’re (as well as younger) who you’re targeting.

by Dootch on Sep 9, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

oversaturation of PPVs vs oversaturation of MMA

i believe there is a risk of having too many pay per view’s, and that most consumers can only handle forking over so much money to pay for these things.

however i don’t think that just because people get sick of paying for weaker PPV’s like 119 that it means that mma in general is over-saturated.

my gut tells me that fans would gladly watch a numbered UFC every week if there was a new one available. they just can’t pay $50 that often. being discouraged or unable to pay $50 every week doesn’t mean that people are less interested in the sport.

instead what it really comes down to is the UFC needs to find a way to show a big fight on free TV and still make a nice profit. find a way to do that, and i think there is ample room to increase the frequency of big MMA events even further than it is now.

www.tapology.com | twitter @tapology

by GregS123 on Sep 9, 2010 11:52 AM EDT reply actions  

Much ado about nothing

I hate Tapout as a brand but love their support of MMA, particularly fighter sponsorships. However, there are good reasons the sale makes sense. The main thing is the huge growth in revenue for Tapout in recent years and their expansion into new endeavors. Even the Tapout guys have admitted in recent interviews that they don’t even understand the clothing business, and they really just get MMA. For instance, the brand segmentation above… for most of us, it’s still Tapout, even if they call it Tapout BA (Broke Ass) and put it in Walmart. To them, Tapout BA is a separate brand.

Basically, Tapout has gotten too big for the original guys to keep control of its expansion. They need partners with expertise in the new areas to head up the expansion, and they got that in this deal. Those partners also realize that Tapout is worthless without MMA, and that’s why they kept the Tapout heads, since they provide the expertise on MMA.

As for oversaturation, people are overlooking the expansion efforts of UFC (international) and Tapout (gyms, department stores, etc). Both companies seem to be aware of the limitations of their current markets and are actively working to expand those opportunities. That’s good for long-term growth, even if it looks like they’re stagnating at the present.

by mma_critic on Sep 9, 2010 11:54 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

i think there is some merit to the “we’re mma guys, not business guys, we better sell this to more capable business people before we screw it up” argument.

www.tapology.com | twitter @tapology

by GregS123 on Sep 9, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

I have a feeling this is exactly it. This is an act of business rather than a fear of stagnation. If you don’t know how to do something, find the best to do it for you. This makes perfect sense for the Tapout brand.

www.undigenous.com - MMA Gear and Apparel
Twitter: @undigenous - Facebook: Undigenous MMA
- Fight Shorts coming soon!

by ceeb on Sep 9, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, green that shit.

Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
CagesideSeats.com
Follow me on Twitter at GenoMrosko

by Geno Mrosko on Sep 9, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

bloated.

Keep the cards coming. I won’t buy all of them but I watch them.

I ’rec myself.

- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!

by VeeisAnimated on Sep 9, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Tapout Guys were smart

If I were Dana White/Ferttitas, I’d probably try to sell my stake in the company a little bit. They don’t have problems with competition, but there is a problem with interest. I’m probably considered a casual MMA fan. I read the blogs, watch the main cards, and was turned onto the sport by watching TUF.

I think most young people have been exposed to the UFC at this point and they either stuck or didn’t. And I think at this point, it’s starting to die off a bit..

by davebo on Sep 9, 2010 12:01 PM EDT reply actions  

I think most young people have been exposed to the UFC at this point and they either stuck or didn’t. And I think at this point, it’s starting to die off a bit..

i don’t think there is much basis to say this. the UFC’s numbers are going up, not down. the sport is just now starting to regularly show up on sportscenter and other outlets.

you could argue that you think the sport will decline down the road. but i don’t think you can argue that the sport is already in decline right now.

www.tapology.com | twitter @tapology

by GregS123 on Sep 9, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

maybe

the tapout guys decided instead of working they’d like to spend their days smoking weed & banging hookers.

"Live fast, die."

by Bonedoctor on Sep 9, 2010 12:23 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

“You never get that in MMA and because of that, you end up with cards like UFC 119.”

I haven’t bought a card by myself in a while instead opting to watch them with friends or at a restaurant to save money, but I really just don’t get a comment like that. I mean there are some really great matchups on this card. Personally there isn’t a single match on the main card that I’m not looking forward to.

Don’t get me wrong as I do think that MMA is becoming over saturated more than a bit at this point, but pointing to a card like UFC 119 and saying it suffers from being a bad card only holds truth if you think every card needs to stack up against Lesnar/Cain. 119 offers quality fights and as a fan of the sport I’m all for that regardless of whether or not the newest big star is on the event.

by Empty Thoughts on Sep 9, 2010 12:37 PM EDT reply actions  

I think UFC 119 is a great card

Sherk/Dunham = Sherk fights for once (maybe) and Dunham has a chance to prove he’s a contender.

Guillard/Stephens = Winner rises up LW rankings.

Serra/Lytle = Okay to be honest I don’t like this fight.

Bader/Lil Nog = Possibly for next title shot or at least a fight with Bones.

Mir/Cro Cop = A hopeful chance Cro-Cop can ride off in the sunset with one more LHK KO.

Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.

by SSreporters on Sep 9, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly

That is exactly my point. Some damn good fights with many of them actually mattering for the future of their divisions.

Serra / Lytle is one of the fights I’m looking forward to most actually. Two guys who like to stand and bang but are also damn good on the ground. Personally I think this one ends up as FotN with one of the two going to sleep.

by Empty Thoughts on Sep 9, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

The last time they fought (for the right to fight GSP)

It was a stallfest of inactivity. Awful awful fight.

Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.

by SSreporters on Sep 9, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think the problem with that fight was that they were fighting for exactly what you just said. A title shot. Something that neither fighter had any chance in hell of getting other than from the gimmick behind the TUF4 season. I’m of the hope that both guys were just extremely timid because there was such high stakes involved.

I guess I just view that fight as a oddity as it really isn’t how either fighter normally has fought before or after. Time will tell I guess. Hopefully I’m right though and we get a real barn burner and not a repeat performance.

by Empty Thoughts on Sep 9, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Holy crap.

Oversaturation? Really? We’re going to go back to debating the single most silly thing that Josh Gross said in the wake of UFC 108? Sigh, Nate. I say sigh. I thought you guys could come up with something a little better than this. I can’t even write an “Everything Is Hunky Dory” post to oppose this – it would look like I gazed outside my window and simply wrote what I saw.

Mixed martial arts is in a place it’s never, ever been before, and what lies beyond where it is dwarfs where it has already been. The single most successful third-party brand selling for millions of dollars is a GOOD thing.

And to good ole JR’s point: the UFC knows it’s not going to sell a million PPV a month. You put on consistently good cards with relevant match ups and quality fighters and the big cards will take care of themselves. Zuffa is being accused of failing at something they’re not even attempting to do. Probably has something to do with their staggering success at every level. I’m going to go enjoy the sun for a minute now.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Sep 9, 2010 12:38 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

Oh no, Mike, not Bloody Elbow in general – just the wing of anti-Zuffa subversives.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Sep 9, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Name names

I want to hear your silly little list and ruin your last ditch efforts to get a tan.

perception is reality

by Marvin Malehooves on Sep 9, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Read more Watch Kalib Run – or go there now and search “subversive”.

A tan will never happen. Vitamin D is the goal here. Oh, and the headline of this article is tantamount to saying that hearing your girlfriend fart in the next room means she’s leaving you for your best friend.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Sep 9, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Real talk, do I count on your list of non-staff subversives?

I’d love to hear the answer.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Sep 9, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Real talk

girls don’t fart subo.

we each must become like fishermen, and go out on to the dark ocean of mind, and let your nets down into that sea

by Barack Lesnar on Sep 9, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Welcome back, Kid Nate

I noted that you hadn’t had any doom and gloom about the UFC’s future after the last few PPV events, but I’m glad to see you’re spinning Tapout’s business decisions into doom and gloom for the UFC here. It was starting to get weird without your END IS NIGH posts about UFC every few weeks.

by Jason H. on Sep 9, 2010 1:41 PM EDT reply actions  

You know

You know?

Don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver or gold.

by nicey on Sep 9, 2010 3:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Starts and Stops

The UFCs growth seems pretty typical for any large company. If you’re worried about over-saturation, look at pro wrestling — that there are this many shows in this day and age says a lot .

The thing about MMA that can’t be overlooked is the potential international appeal. Football will only ever be an American sport, whereas MMA is essentially international (drawing on the “American” discipline of wrestling, various martial arts popular in Asia and Latin America, and of course boxing).

The issue, as I see it, isn’t supersaturation, it’s the PPV model, which requires people to fork over more money than they can. Further, bars are hesitant to buy events like 119 because they won’t draw like the bigger cards, and bars are charged a large flat rate. Unfortunately it’s a chicken egg problem, where the UFC needs network television and basic cable to grow, but can’t get the ratings it needs until it’s more mainstream.

by superflat on Sep 9, 2010 4:39 PM EDT reply actions  

Read through the whole article

Got to the bottom, saw how it ended with a nice anti-Zuffa slant, and said “this has to be a Kid Nate article”. Scrolled back to the top, and what do you know, its a Kid Nate article.

by IWillPartyHard on Sep 9, 2010 5:39 PM EDT reply actions  

You gotta love the continual reaching that continues to go on when it comes to Zuffa, the spin is incredibly 600k buyrates shows are now considered weak. Not to mention claiming oversaturation while the UFC continues to break their own ppv buyrate records in a huge reccession is beyond ridiculous. Now comes the topper with trying to tie the TapOut guys who’ve been in this business from the start and have lost one of their own to somehow the UFC struggling incredible. I would ask where people get this stuff but at this point who cares, really I just would like facts brought into these discussions for once and not useless reaching.

"they mad at me, I keep going hard reppin/
cause what's your Rampage to Rashad Evans/"
-Joe Budden (Something To Ride To)
http://www.zshare.net/audio/76866807deabe3c1/

by Nightwhistler on Sep 9, 2010 6:00 PM EDT reply actions  

When you’re paying guys 8 grand to show and 8 to win, I don’t think you come out losing cash very often. I hope one day there is a show every weekend. Between SF and UFC and WEC, there are still 3 week gaps sometimes. And without fight build-up or aftermath to discuss BE, Sherdog and the UG all start reaching for stories/angles, like this one.

by medium seen on Sep 9, 2010 6:29 PM EDT reply actions  

I don’t agree that the UFC is getting over-saturated. The 4 or 5 week gap between numbered events at the moment is killing me :-P

by brad23 on Sep 9, 2010 7:56 PM EDT reply actions  

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