UFC 121 Preview: Cain Velasquez Will Train on Getting Out of Bad Positions Against Brock Lesnar
by Nick Thomas on Sep 9, 2010 9:40 AM EDT
in UFC News
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Print"It's getting myself in bad positions and getting out of them. I don't think it's a point of avoiding those bad positions. I think it's getting in those bad positions, getting out of them; really getting comfortable in those bad positions. You definitely have to work on the stuff that (Brock Lesnar) is good at."Saturday, October 23rd live on PPV from the Honda Center in Anaheim, CA:
Cain Velasquez (8-0) +145
Win Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira - TKO (Punches) UFC 110
Win Ben Rothwell - TKO (Punches) UFC 104
Win Cheick Kongo - Decision (Unanimous) UFC 99
Win Denis Stojnic - TKO (Punches) UFC FN 17
Brock Lesnar (5-1) -175HT: hdnetfights.com
Win Shane Carwin - Submission (Arm-Triangle Choke) UFC 116
Win Frank Mir - TKO (Punches) UFC 100
Win Randy Couture - TKO (Punches) UFC 91
Win Heath Herring - Decision (Unanimous) UFC 87
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Lol yeah dude pillow hands valasquez gonna tko lesnar
by kanodogg on Sep 9, 2010 11:14 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You have any idea how battle damaged nog is?
by kanodogg on Sep 9, 2010 11:17 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I have no idea how seven tko finishes (all via punches) in eight fight means pillow fisted.
It makes me think people base everything they know on the Kongo fight.
Or the Rothwell fight
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
It look ALOT of punches to tko those nobodies … I don’t see him doing the same to lesnar, just wait, you’ll see.
by kanodogg on Sep 9, 2010 11:26 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He still did enough to end the fight
Not bad for a wrestler who is just learning the striking game…
People love Josh Koscheck’s punching power, but he only had one KO/TKO in his first 11 fights. Refining punching technique and harnessing power takes time.
or the reljic fight.
Chael Sonnen: Last time I defeated the myth, this time I'll defeat the man.
So...hyped...
err maybe stojnic? think i might have gotten the name wrong
Chael Sonnen: Last time I defeated the myth, this time I'll defeat the man.
So...hyped...
i saw that fight live.
Cain was not impressive ……. I felt like gsp after watching Hughes fight.
by the-gentle-way on Sep 9, 2010 1:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
TKO, not KO
Rothwell called him pillow hands but still lost by TKO because he couldn’t defend those pillow hands. For me, there are two question marks preventing me from calling this a Cain victory.
1. Is Cain big enough? Was it Carwin’s technique or strength/size that let him brush off Brock’s takedown so easily before gassing? Is Cain’s reach enough to tag Brock?
2. Can Cain withstand one of Brock’s punches? Kongo was able to solidly hit him three times in the limited standup time of that fight, and even slow-ass Nog got in a clean punch just before getting KO’d. Brock’s striking defense is bad, but Cain’s doesn’t seem too great either.
If the answer is yes to both, it’s a sure victory for Cain. If not, it’s a toss up with an edge to Lesnar.
Kongo and nog have striking LIGHTYEARS beyond Brock's
Proud member of the newly established Frankie Edgar bandwagon
Cain will beat Brock, I am accepting sig bets.
Unfortunately
At this point Brock’s chin is ten times that of Nog’s. Nog has taken a few too many knocks for his once legendary chin.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Did Mir use the same tactic
vs. Brock and Carwin? It seemed he got too comfortable in those bad positions and started taking more damage than expected. I think he said as much after the Carwin fight.
Mir doesn't have Cain's wrestling chops and...
I don’t think Mir had the luxury of working with Daniel Cormier on a daily basis.
He got a good poker face. Because he was fuc*ed trapped in this one armed full nelson, as he was fuc*ed when he started eating bombs in the clinch.
I'm a lover not a fighter
I think Mir just loves to get hit… Strange that he always looks over to his corner and gives them a thumbs up before going out
by kanodogg on Sep 9, 2010 11:16 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
interesting point
I think the answer is that Cain will try to get out of those bad positions, and not try to submit from the bottom.
THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BL vs CV, but...
… I re-watched the Carwin vs Mir match and noticed that when Carwin got Mir to the mat and took his back, he then went berserk punching on Mir head as he did on Lesnar in their championship match.
Difference?
Mir looked plain out of it and was flat on his back not defending…
… Lesnar was curled up with his guard up and moving around trying to avoid the punches.
I know it’s a mute point now, but I just thought it was interesting to see Carwin do the same thing to two different fighters and their reaction to it.
Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p
by ChicagoMarine on Sep 9, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
More than half of the shots Mir took
Were to the back of the head, including the one that KHTFO which landed almost at the base of the skull IIRC…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Sep 10, 2010 1:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Mir made no attempt to escape.
Gnp guys love sit in someones half guard pound them out. Mir was waiting for lesnar to spas so he would have space to get full guard/go for a sub, like in the first fight. Brock isnt a spas anymore …… and now we know what happens when a methodical 300 lbs. Gorilla gets in Mir’s half-guard. http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ZYjzJumw9_iJ5M::www.obsessedwithsports.com/2009/07/12/ufc-100-results-and-retrospective/&t=1&usg=AFrqEzf-IgaQiX13N5GhE8NnBXQtjbs8jg
by the-gentle-way on Sep 9, 2010 1:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It seems everytime you hear this tactic to training
These fighters lose because they’re too concerned with escaping the worst case scenario that they don’t focus on an effective path to victory.
"If the commission would sanction it and Dana would move, I’d fighter Anderson right now."
- Chael Sonnen at the post fight press conference following his loss to Anderson Silva.
Support independent artists
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by Worldisart on Sep 9, 2010 9:51 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
good point!
You certainly don’t want to go into a fight like Penn and think that everything you do is going to work and your opponent’s strategy is futile, but you also don’t want to train to lose.
Training for both is the best approach. Have a good offensive strategy combinde with a defense to combate your opponents strong suits.
Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p
by ChicagoMarine on Sep 9, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
Kinda reminds me a little of what Hardy said before he fought GSP. Something about how he knew he was gonna get taken down but was gonna be throwing a lot of lefts off of his back. Which proved to be the wrong game plan. If he trained everything overall then he might have had a better performance
i think he is right. there was no way he was not going to get taken down.
But he should have been training his guard,sweeps and scrambling to his feet. Not lefts from the ground.
by the-gentle-way on Sep 9, 2010 2:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
train for the worst and hope for the best.
Cry in training, laugh in battle.
If your best offence is easily negated by me I have a clear path to victory. How ever I want.
Not saying Cain is gonna win, just that I agree with his line of thinking. We already know Cain knows how to get fights stopped. Making sure he can survive/ escape Brock’s top control is a good thing to practice. Especially since wrestlers generally suck off their back.
by the-gentle-way on Sep 9, 2010 1:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
ahhh cardio...
that’s what Carwin forgot….
Macknight
-----------------
Correct me if I am wrong - I may learn something.....
Not to take anything away from Lesnar
But we are really going to see what he’s made of in his next two fights. He was gutsy in that Carwin fight, but for me there were unanswered quesetions. But if he gets by Cain, and then JDS, it won’t matter how lucky he looks – he’s the best right now, and one of the best heavyweights ever. Beating Couture, Mir, and Carwin all in a row is impressive enough, especially since he finished all of them before the end of the 2nd round. But you can say that Couture was small, Mir wasn’t all that, and he got a bit lucky that Carwin gassed so hard. This next fight is going to be huge.
On Lesnar
He was gutsy in that Carwin fight, but for me there were unanswered quesetions.
I think he looked like a guy that recovered from a major illness. I see him beating Cain via size and being stopped by JDS.
Lesnar keeps me watching to see how and whether he will improve his game. I’d say the last fight was a step back.
Why do so many people think JDS has the ability to stop a takedown attempt by an elite wrestler?
It is possible, but we have seen no evidence. I personally like Cain’s chances better than JDS’s. They are about the same size and they should both be able to out strike Lesnar, but Velasquez has known grappling ability while JDS has big question marks there.
I just think that JDS has the best hands in the HW division in all of MMA and I’ve seen nothing from Brock to indicate he likes to be hit … if anything he seems to turtle up each time he’s touched. We don’t really know how well JDS can defend a takedown but just like we haven’t seen anything to indicate he could hold off takedowns from an elite wrestler there is also nothing to indicate he couldn’t avoid a takedown. I see JDS being the eventual champion whether its against Cain or Brock. Personally, I think Cain is going to tool Brock in their fight and the JDS vs Cain fight will be one of the best of all time.
by Johnnynumber5 on Sep 9, 2010 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Ummm…..
just like we haven’t seen anything to indicate he could hold off takedowns from an elite wrestler there is also nothing to indicate he couldn’t avoid a takedown
Except JDS has no wrestling background, and only a guy with high level wrestling is going to have a chance to stop these takedowns. If they lack a wrestling base, even guys with far better BJJ than JDS can’t stop the elite MMA Wrestlers from taking them down at will.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Sep 10, 2010 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Cain’s got a much better chance than JDS IMO. We haven’t seen JDS tested on the ground once. He is a Nog black belt (I presume), but I can’t see him having the tools to stop the TD. Cain can tire Lesnar out. Both Cain and JDS have to find a way around Lesnar’s power and size.
If you want to hear my opinion on Les Miles go to BJPenn.com.
i question Jds's ground skills
I thinking the wrestlers will handle him.
by the-gentle-way on Sep 9, 2010 2:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Not often you see 2 guys fighting for a championship, that have 14 fights combined.
Not in the UFC, at least.
true
but IMO there isn’t a whole lot of prospects in the HW division. So guys with a few wins under their belt get a title shot early.
Speaking of this...
People were upset at Lashley for not taking big fights when he was 5 – 0
Cain has worked his way up with very few fights, Cormier may be in big fights soon. It all depends on the fighter, but the new blood in the HW division is very exciting.
For some reason I'm not excited about this fight
And everything about it on paper tells me that I should be. What’s wrong with me?!
Ha!?
Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p
by ChicagoMarine on Sep 9, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
The Interview
Is it just me or is Cain quite possibly a worse speaker than our last president?
I think he just may always wear gym shorts.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
You be the guy
to tell him how to dress. :)
"I'd love to be a Cheick Kongo looking brother that could actually move and do a lot of funky stuff - Jiu Jitsu, takedowns, kicks and stuff." - Jon Jones.
"This is the internet: you either have soul-stopping power or you’re a pillow-fisted pansy. There is no middle ground." - woomikee
Preparing for a bad situation is a smart move by Cain. I don’t see him having enough to finish Brock so his best chance to win is by doing a Frankie Edgar. Win each round on points being more active scoring a takedown just staying busy and out of trouble. Only Problem i see here is all it takes it one time for Brock to hit him or take him down and he is basically fucked. Brock finishes the fight rather it be GNP or Sub.
"I’m the UFC heavyweight champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
I don’t see Brock as the armbar type. Wrestling-minded fighters tend to prefer submissions that don’t sacrifice control – arm-triangle chokes, rear-naked chokes, guillotines. With an armbar, you set yourself up to be on your back if the submission attempt fails.
So, Brock via. Aoki-style Gogoplata from the top.
Id like to see Brock use the same Sub Hughes used on Ricardo Almeida. Brock defiantly has the Bull strength needed to pull it off. Sprawl and sinch it in tight and Cain will either tap or risk his head popping off.
"I’m the UFC heavyweight champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
lesnar by bustamontaie armbar setup from back mount!!!
Ken Shamrock went to WWF billed as "The worlds most dangerous man", after UFC 100 Frank Mir Could use his kayfabe Skills and go to WWE as " The worlds most dangerous Cabbage Patch!!"
by lesnarhypetrain on Sep 9, 2010 12:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Cain continues win streak
in a dominate fasion
its funny to me
How much people despise Lesnar!!
Ken Shamrock went to WWF billed as "The worlds most dangerous man", after UFC 100 Frank Mir Could use his kayfabe Skills and go to WWE as " The worlds most dangerous Cabbage Patch!!"
by lesnarhypetrain on Sep 9, 2010 12:52 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
If you are
Refering to what I posted.
I do not despise Lesnar, I give him a lot of respect as a fighter.
But Cain Velasquez is THE most determined and driven fighter I have seen in a LONG LONG time.
-Cains got a bigger gas tank
-As good of wrestling
-Much better striking
-Much faster
that’s all I’m saying
The thing is i think Brock could survive a bad situation from Cain im not so sure Cain could survive a bad situation from Lesnar. Nobody is going to have any success with that big ogre laying on top of you or punching you in the face.
"I’m the UFC Heavyweight Champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
What makes you think that?
Borck can survive a bad situation from Cain? If cain gets in any dominate position on the ground with brock or even standing, he will wear him down.
Your come back? probably something about how Shane couldn’t finish him.
Well in the time Shane Carwin lands 10 hits and gasses halfwya through them, Cain will hav landed 20+ and keep pushing.
kinda like how he landed over 250 in the Kongo fight and Kongo left without a scratch..If Shane dropping bombs didn’t finish him neither will Cain. Cain doesn’t have the size to keep Brock on his back either. Cain has a much more difficult fight on his hands then Carwin did. Carwin got a emotional ring rusted humble champion. Cain gets a champion back in the groove and back to the grind.
"I’m the UFC Heavyweight Champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
that would be the longest spelling bee in history.
Cain your word is Cat……K….A…sry that is incorrect.
Brock your word is Dog….umm…..Brock Smash!
"I’m the UFC Heavyweight Champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
Im sure crewshal knows better than Vegas i mean they only have millions and millions on the line.
"I’m the UFC Heavyweight Champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
-500? That a little crazy.. Vegas is way way off
I would think they would have it like Brock(-200)/Cain(+150)
I see no way that Vegas is going to favor Cain in this fight….
He's talking about the spelling bee
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 9, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
lol ok
Well he could win no doubt in my mind he COULD! However if i was a betting man I’m putting my money on Lesnar by hmm well whatever the hell he WANTS. After all Hr is BRRROOOCKLESSSNARR!!!!!
Ken Shamrock went to WWF billed as "The worlds most dangerous man", after UFC 100 Frank Mir Could use his kayfabe Skills and go to WWE as " The worlds most dangerous Cabbage Patch!!"
by lesnarhypetrain on Sep 9, 2010 1:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Not you specifically
Just this common mind set that carwins gonna be the guy to stop Lesnar. Then he lost so now Cains gonna be that guy if he loses no Jds hell be the one to derail the villain that Is Lesnar. It’s the whole anti Lesnar mind set I find comical thats all!
Ken Shamrock went to WWF billed as "The worlds most dangerous man", after UFC 100 Frank Mir Could use his kayfabe Skills and go to WWE as " The worlds most dangerous Cabbage Patch!!"
by lesnarhypetrain on Sep 9, 2010 1:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
but thats what makes it so fun when Brock wins :)
"I’m the UFC Heavyweight Champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
Here is where I’d post the Lesnar Hate Cycle gif that some genius created. It’s getting old though.
Not everyone predicting a Lesnar loss is hating. It seems about 50/50.
Not hating just i find it funny
The amount of people who do just hate because he’s Lesnar.
Ken Shamrock went to WWF billed as "The worlds most dangerous man", after UFC 100 Frank Mir Could use his kayfabe Skills and go to WWE as " The worlds most dangerous Cabbage Patch!!"
by lesnarhypetrain on Sep 9, 2010 1:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Not hating just i find it funny
The amount of people who do just hate because he’s Lesnar.
Ken Shamrock went to WWF billed as "The worlds most dangerous man", after UFC 100 Frank Mir Could use his kayfabe Skills and go to WWE as " The worlds most dangerous Cabbage Patch!!"
by lesnarhypetrain on Sep 9, 2010 1:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
he just has his hands fulll
These are tough dudes. He is not a shoe in for any of these fights. You are gonna have people pick against him. Not because of hate, but because of the level of competition.
by the-gentle-way on Sep 9, 2010 2:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
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