UFC Fight Night 22 Preview: Rousimar Palhares Says He's Not Trying to Hurt Anyone
by Nick Thomas on Sep 8, 2010 8:54 PM EDT
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"Murilo (Bustamante) always told me to wait until the referee stops the fight. He had problems with [fake taps] in the past and Anderson almost had the same problem in his last fight."
"Its not that I want to hurt anyone but I am trying to be fast with my submissions so the referee needs to be fast as well, to stop the fight. My opinion is that the referee in my last fight was too far away and took too long to stop the fight. If he had been closer then he could have stopped it right away and then we would not even be having this conversation at all."
-- Rousimar Palhares talks about his heel hook win over Tomasz Drwal with fightersonlymagazine.co.uk.
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After watching it again, I think I believe him
he seemed like he closed his eyes and just starting torquing. It’s possible he was confused on who was trying to release the hold.
Either way he needed to be suspended, because malicious or not that’s quite dangerous and there’s no place for it.
Palhares got a slap on the wrist (not even that really). Disgusting that the commission didn’t do something serious that might actually cause him to like…even delay a fight? The guy could well have seriously harmed another person’s career, and more importantly, maliciously maimed another person.
Chael Sonnen: Last time I defeated the myth, this time I'll defeat the man.
So...hyped...
In this case it doesn't strike me as malicious
it strikes me as stupid and suspension worthy, but malicious didn’t come to mind. If he has a history (to be honest I don’t follow grappling) then that changes things, but this instance, I don’t have a huge problem with.
He's trying to break it
He’s probably done that sub thousands or tens-of-thousands of times in the gym. Letting go after a tap is muscle memory at this point.
Even if he feels a tap and has trained to wait for the ref—that ref came, tapped on his arm, then yanked once, then again before Paul Harris even started to let go. And let’s not forget, Drwal was screaming during the whole process.
Look how long he holds the sub after the ref jumps in.
He’s dirty.
Semper Fi'
WatchKalibRun.com
Pain don't hurt...
The camera work is very Cloverfieldesque
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
He's not all there
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
by Damon O. on Sep 8, 2010 9:00 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
None of the fans who were in the arena that night have been heard from since.
by Brent Ducharme on Sep 8, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
BUM BUM BUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
by Damon O. on Sep 8, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions 11 recs
I’m about to start doing this shit in the club. Crank that Palhares, motherfucker.
by Brent Ducharme on Sep 9, 2010 2:08 AM EDT up reply actions
I count...
Somewhere between 6-10 “taps” before Ref gets there. Seems pretty slow, then again that is slow motion.
Good, bad... I'm the guy with the gun.
the problem is that he didn’t release the hold even after the ref intervened
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
Yep the issue wasn’t how long it was before the ref got there it was that the refs literally had to pull him off the hold once he did get there. The ref shouldn’t have to fight and yank on a guy to get them to let go of a hold.
Yes, the ref should have to yank on a fighter to make him let go. Just the same as they push off other fighters that knock out someone on the ground. We sometimes see refs dive in to stop punches. The same should be done for submissions, especially leg locks.
by iddqd on Sep 9, 2010 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That makes sense
in some alternate universe.
Satoshi Kon
R.I.P.
by Grappo on Sep 9, 2010 3:09 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
What? No they shouldn’t have to push off fighters that knock someone out either, the ref should never have to get physical and force a fight to end he should be able to say it’s over and it be over. Yes they will insert themselves between the fighters if they can but they shouldn’t have to tug and yang on them to get them to stop.
love this dude
"How do you shoot the devil in the back? What if you miss?"
by DamnSevern on Sep 8, 2010 9:04 PM EDT reply actions 7 recs
thats some pro wrestling shit right there!
by MrTechnique420 on Sep 9, 2010 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Come on, how much clearer could it be made to him that it's over?
I can’t believe this is still up for discussion. He took a ridiculously long time to let go of that.
He is a very simple, humble guy. If you know his story, he comes from a very poor background. And I mean extremely poor even for brazilian standards.
He does what his coaches tells him. It’s not being dirty or doing it intentionaly.
I think he should’ve released the hold after the guys taped clearly because of the dangerous nature of leg locks.
But let’s not turn a simple man like Palhares into a villain.
So he’s an idiot and lacks common sense? Not a very good defense or estimation of the guy.
Whatever his motivation is, he did wrong.
Yeah, that’s what Henrique meant exactly. Well summarized.
"The common denominator of the Universe is not harmony, but chaos, hostility, and murder."
"Opinionated weather forecasters telling me it's going to be a miserable day. Miserable to who? I quite like a bit of drizzle, so stick to the facts!"
"Shoot him again... his soul is still dancing!"
by Ephemeral Artery on Sep 8, 2010 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think that he was trying to say
that Palhares comes from a very humble and simple background. He had to work since his infant days to feed his (nine or ten) younger brothers and sisters.
People like that usually don’t have malicious or evil thoughts in their hearts, and tend to act on instinct or like they were taught to, sometimes in a very naive way.
You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. Joe Pesci. Two reasons; first of all, I think he's a good actor. Okay. To me, that counts. Second; he looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn't fuck around. Doesn't fuck around.
George Carlin
How he grew up doesn’t change what he did and making excuses like this instead of learning from his mistake just makes it worse.
sure
It was a mistake? Yes!
He was being dirty? I honestly don’t think so…
You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. Joe Pesci. Two reasons; first of all, I think he's a good actor. Okay. To me, that counts. Second; he looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn't fuck around. Doesn't fuck around.
George Carlin
Dirty or not blaming the ref for it and making silly excuses just makes him look bad. This incident had nothing to do with potential fake tapping or the ref being out of position it had to do with the ref having to physically pry him out of the hold because he wouldn’t let go when the ref said stop. If he had stopped when the ref said stop then none of this conversation would be happening and the fact that he is still blaming other people points to him not learning anything from this.
I agree with you. He didn’t act appropriately. But I also think that it wasn’t intentional, or at least, with the intention of hurting his opponent.
You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. Joe Pesci. Two reasons; first of all, I think he's a good actor. Okay. To me, that counts. Second; he looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn't fuck around. Doesn't fuck around.
George Carlin
Nick Lembo's statement on this:
Nick Lembo said he did not think Palhares intended to hurt Drwal with a heelhook that wrenched the Polish fighter’s ligaments from the knee down and caused him to wail in pain in a scene replayed at countless speeds and angles during the UFC 111 pay-per-view broadcast on Saturday.
But Palhares did not properly heed referee Kevin Mulhall’s physical and verbal instructions to relinquish the hold, Lembo said, and thus has been issued a 90-day disciplinary suspension. Palhares’ agent did not outright dispute the commission’s decision, but did take pains to dispel any sense that Palhares is somehow a dirty fighter for holding the heelhook until he was absolutely sure the referee had recognized the submission.
Lembo said his review of the tape of Saturday’s fight showed that Mulhall told Palhares to stop and tugged on him three times as he was in the throes of the submission.
"When a referee’s in there pulling three times and the other fighter’s tapping… I think everybody knows, regardless of language issues or anything, at that point the referee’s trying to stop the fight," Lembo told Sherdog.com on Monday.
Lembo was also asked if Mulhall’s positioning prior to the stoppage also contributed to the length of time in which the submission was held.
“The people that argue that Palhares only held for seconds also need to realize that it only took the referee seconds to get there,” Lembo said in an e-mail. “Again, the key is what happened AFTER the referee got there.”
Lembo said the most relevant factor in the situation is that the referee had to use force three times before the submission was released.
“A referee should not have to use that much force to release a heel (hook),” Lembo wrote.
Lembo said Palhares’ past adherence to such a mindset is part of what led to his decision. He reviewed Palhares’ submissions of Helio Dipp and Flavio Luiz Moura in Brazil in 2007 before Saturday’s fight and thought those holds were held too long as well.
"If you watch those two fights, that concerned me," Lembo said. "He’s very, very slow after the referee physically intervenes, as in this case. I think Palhares in an outstanding fighter with an outstanding future. Maybe this will send a message that his camp can discuss this with him and maybe alter it a little bit."
Whether he intended to hurt his opponent or not at this point doesn’t change the facts of what happened and him making excuses for this instead of just manning up to his mistake(s) is a real issue here. NJSACB’s reasoning for the suspension was very clearly stated and had nothing at all to do with his excuses.
Also
other things that should be considered:
- his coach had trouble with fake tapping — team quest — before.
- the whole scene was very awkward: the ref was too far away, he was facing down with his eyes — apparently — closed. It seems that he was to deep and focused in the “get the job done” mode.
You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. Joe Pesci. Two reasons; first of all, I think he's a good actor. Okay. To me, that counts. Second; he looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn't fuck around. Doesn't fuck around.
George Carlin
Huh, just as I said at the time of the fight...
“My opinion is that the referee in my last fight was too far away and took too long to stop the fight. If he had been closer then he could have stopped it right away and then we would not even be having this conversation at all.”
Kevin was way too far away from the fight in order to stop it quick enough. End of story.
Once the ref got there he still wouldn’t let go, at that point the ref’s position beforehand no longer matters. The fight is over but he has to have his arms pried off the hold before he will let go. The reason he got in trouble for that wasn’t because he didn’t let go when the other guy tapped it’s because he didn’t let go once the ref told him to let go and the hold had to be physically broken by the ref.
Really?
If he had been closer then he could have stopped it right away and then we would not even be having this conversation at all.
We also wouldn’t be having this convo if Palhares had let go when the ref got there.
Why have we gotten to the point where the Ref has to physically break the hold?
I think it happens far too often where the Ref has to physically restrain or yank free submissions.
The moment the ref yells stop and puts his hands on you, you stop doing whatever you’re doing.
GSP is an alien sent here to humiliate our men and mate with our women
by MMA_Messiah on Sep 8, 2010 10:40 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Oh no, we're done with this.
He apologized, was suspended, in the end the guy wasn’t badly hurt, he won’t do it again, and certainly not on marquardt. What’s left to discuss?
I'm a lover not a fighter
by spectaa on Sep 8, 2010 11:00 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Yeah you're basing that off of the slow motion replay probably.
It takes a second to be able to react to that, it’s not instantaneous.
I think most resonable people can agree that it might take a moment to register that your opponent is tapping and another moment that the ref is waving it off and telling you to stop. I can’t get past the part where the ref is trying to pry the two fighters apart. That and he’s done this twice before.. its a pattern now.
by sadface on Sep 9, 2010 2:47 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I thought the same thing, and I’m basing that off my real-time reaction while watching the fight live.
Satoshi Kon
R.I.P.
The moment you slap on a submission, you start waiting for the tap. It’s the NEXT THING THAT HAPPENS, EVERY TIME YOU DO IT. He knew he locked the sub, he heard the dude scream, he knew that ref was coming soon. Even so, he kept holding it after the ref arrived and yanked repeatedly on his arm.
Yeah it is
Every single sub Paulharris has ever used in the gym has been accompanied by a tap. He’s probably caught guys in thousands if not millions of subs during his lifetime of training, and each and every time, somebody tapped and he let go.
I’ve got years of mat time, and speaking from experience: He held that sub entirely too long—on purpose—because he wanted to break that thing.
His name is Paul, and this is between y'all.
by Polyhedron on Sep 9, 2010 2:11 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
he didnt even snap anything
Dude had no injuries from Paul Harris. If he was trying to hurt him He would have destroyed his ankle and knee. He just held the sub he didn’t continue to crank. No harm no foul. 90 days seems about right. Everyone came out ok.
by the-gentle-way on Sep 9, 2010 11:44 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
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