How the UFC Books Fights
Some interesting insight from a Ben Fowlkes piece today. He talks to Javier Mendez, a champion kickboxer and trainer at the American Kickboxing Academy:
"They usually give you A or B or C and you get to choose. But sometimes they just give you A, and either you take the fight or you don't. But in general with the UFC, they tell you who they want you to fight."
Fowlkes also talks to AKA fighter Mike Swick:
Sometimes, as Swick explained, they tell you before they tell your management, and the result is a clash of differing expectations.
"The one fight I took without talking to my manager was David Louiseau. I told Joe Silva I'd take that fight and I wanted to be a number one contender so bad. Then I called Bob Cook and I remember telling him, and there was nothing but silence on the other end of the phone. That's when I remember thinking, oh sh-t."
Bob Cook is the head MMA trainers at AKA and Mike Swick's manager.
This is a very telling insight into how the UFC works with the fighters under contract to them. Some fighters get some options -- for example, Rich Franklin and Forrest Griffin apparently had the latitude to turn down a bout with Jon Jones. But other fighters, enjoying less favored nation status than organization favorites like Griffin and Franklin, are simply presented with their next opponent, take it or leave it.
Roy Nelson was presented with his UFC 117 bout against Junior Dos Santos in that manner as a take it or leave it bout.
All fighters need to project an image of "I'll fight anybody, anytime", but the reality is that they have to be very careful in their fight choices. Basically, a fighter only wants to take fights that will help move his career forward. Early on in a prospect's career, the goal is to find him relatively easy fights against journeymen with limited skill sets who present an ever increasing set of challenges.
Later on, once a fighter is ready for mid-tier competition, the goal will be to find fighters with a bigger reputation and name brand that the prospect nevertheless has an excellent chance to beat.
From there it's a matter of weighing the pay day against the long term career impact. For a fighter like Marcus Davis who is in his late 30's and has already pretty much been eliminated from contention in the UFC welterweight division a fight against a young lion like Nate Diaz makes sense. Win or lose it's great exposure and a solid pay day and if he wins, instant relevance.
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I remember implicitly after Shogun/Coleman
And Shogun’s terrible performance, Dana White getting in Shogun’s face saying “I want you to fight Chuck” to which Shogun accepted. White thought it would be an easy win for Chuck.
The process of going around management is shady, but something that will happen for a while.
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
Re: Shogun vs Liddell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5b2lcekeyjg
"Caol Uno was like Mutoh. He developed into a star overseas and then returned to his home country a much bigger deal. Dokonjonosuke Mishima is like Kobashi because they both do moonsaults. Don Frye is like Stan Hansen because they are both fat dumb rednecks with mustaches." - Jonathan Snowden
by RagingNoodles on Sep 3, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
the funny part is Ninja and that other dude's faces
They’re like “I can’t believe he’s pulling this shit”
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 3, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
WOW dude.......
After watching your video there is a part 2 epic fails video….. at 1:49 it very clearly shows Matt Hughes getting greased up with Vaseline. Holy incriminating evidence batman. tisk tisk hughes. lol.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvXth-cMa7Q&feature=fvw
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I'll say it until I'm blue in the face
Despite all the crap that they try to pull once they become bloated with power, there still needs to be a union for fighters.
Never happen
Dana has set it up too nice just like pro wrestling.
The pay disparity is such that the rich fighters have no incentive to share the pie. The mid-tier fighters think they will someday be rich fighters and won’t want to share. The poor fighters don’t have a leg to stand on.
This is just like capitalism also.
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 3, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Probably not
But if one is formed and everyone jumps on board I doubt Dana (and others) will have any other choice, unless he’s ready to promote UFC ### Ken Shamrock vs Dan Severn III
I think it’s funny that people think that the first thing a union would try to do is go after big, mean zuffa. The guys that pay more salary to fighters than anyone else in the sport.
if a union really wanted to get off the ground, actually help a lot of fighters, and somehow make a difference, they should work together to get shit like Shine and Dream not paying fighters to stop. Going at it from that direction will make it much more likely to succeed.
That just isn't at all how I remember it
While White did tell Shogun he wanted him to fight Chuck, he was gushing about Shogun pulling through against Coleman and gave them fight of the night. Why you build in these weird conjectures at to the motives behind it is beyond me and, frankly, it seems juvenile.
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
Uh, watch the video
Watch the video linked. Here it is if you’re too lazy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5b2lcekeyjg
Everyone and their mother knew he was feeding Shogun to Chuck.
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 3, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Nobody told Shogun that.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Sep 3, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 3, 2010 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
i would love to spend a day with joey
a day in the war room with joe silva!
Fighting Solves Everything! - Mikeybear
Great article. It also helps the UFC push good fights for the fans. No one wants to fight Jones, they all need to be treated that way. Once the great are no longer in the title picture it makes sense to cash out a fighter (like Hughes) until they retire.
I get that Hughes will never be back in the title picture
But I’d still put him at the very top of WW, and i think he should still be fighting relevant fights. I’d love if they matched Hughes up with Nate Diaz
I’ve got big walnuts. Gorilla nuts.
by Austin Martin on Sep 3, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree, Hughes is one
of my favorites but his time has passed. I like watching him compete in fights where he is still competitive. I like the Diaz idea but I am a fan of both. I want to see Diaz choke out Maynard after he beats Frankie though.
That's why I still think Jones' next fight could be Thiago
He is good enough to be considered a step up, but he seemingly lacks the clout to prevent having the fight thrust upon him.
Then again, given his propensity for injury, maybe not…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Sep 3, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think they'd give Silva 3 losses out of 4
Plus Bones would throw Silva around like a ragdoll.
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
i personally would like either winner of Bader/Nog, or loser of Rampage/ Machida.
I’ve got big walnuts. Gorilla nuts.
by Austin Martin on Sep 3, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
It just wouldn’t be very UFC-like to have Jones-Bader except as a title fight or perhaps a #1 contender fight, unless one or both are coming off losses…Jones-Lil Nog I could see though…
Loser of Rampage/Machida would then be favored to pick up their third straight loss. I don’t see that happening unless Dana is really pissed at Rampage for something that happens between now and then…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Sep 3, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
good points.
I’ve got big walnuts. Gorilla nuts.
by Austin Martin on Sep 3, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Plus Bones would throwSilvaany current LHW around like a ragdoll
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Sep 3, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
i like that fight.
I thaigo might have something for Jones if his back is better. I mean I am not putting any money on Silva …. I just would like to see that fight.
by the-gentle-way on Sep 3, 2010 3:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If Rashad could wrestle him to the ground and do absolutely nothing with top control
Imagine the nasty things Bones could do.
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
Remember, Silva did them a solid by going through with the Rashad fight despite having a messed up back. I don’t think they’re gonna throw him to the wolves with Jones coming off two major injuries.
by Verklemptomaniac on Sep 3, 2010 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I disagree
I think he is the odd man out…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Sep 4, 2010 3:18 AM EDT up reply actions
My first card as matchmaker would be something like this
UFC Fight Night 25: The Comeback
Denis Stojnic vs. Mostapha Al-Turk (Main)
Scott Junk vs. Kevin Jordan (Co-main)
Andy Wang vs. Rolando Delgado
Eddie Sanchez vs. Neil Wain
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
That would at least not cost very much.
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Richard is a jewel." - Kid Nate
the UFC may be draconian
but I think they do an excellent of booking fights that are both relevant and entertaining. And, they do it consistently.
Joe Silva is the man, imho.
All fighters need to project an image of “I’ll fight anybody, anytime”, but the reality is that they have to be very careful in their fight choices.
If this is the case is MMA or the UFC in particular in danger of becoming similar to boxing further down the line where the fighters have more power,start making more money and choosing who they fight.
And the fans start to lose out.
I hope not because this is one of the main reasons i am getting tired of boxing and watching more MMA.
by Matt Mosley on Sep 3, 2010 4:11 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Imo,
the UFC needs to put a stop to this "i won’t fight my friend " crap that the likes of the AKA team and the Black House fighters have.
I can understand it to an extent but,at the end of the day,if two guys from the same team are 1+2 or even 2+3 in the division and elimination fights are needed,they should have it in their contracts that they have to fight.
I know DW has mentioned this recently and i hope they address this issue and i don’t have to listen to Jon Fitch coming out with “the only place we fight is in the gym” talk again.
If you spar hard anyway,why not step it up a notch and make some money while you’re at it.
Here's the problem.
A loss hurts negotiating power with the UFC and with sponsorships. If Fitch and Koscheck fight, then they are guaranteed to take food off the other guys table. I know that I couldn’t do that to a friend.
That’s not even touching on the fact that they can’t train together for a fight and one man would have to uproot himself from the gym and go somewhere unfamiliar with new coaches, being at a disadvantage because of it.
Also there’s the fact that MMA gyms become damn near family. Alpha Male takes it to an extreme by actually owning several houses on the same block and living with each other, but it’s just an exaggeration of what nearly every gym is like. The guys go out together, vacation together, help each other through tough times… it’s a trusting support structure.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Sep 3, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Then some guys need to accept that they will not get high profile fights. No point in having both Fitch and Koscheck face top guys if they won’t fight. You end up with a bottleneck at the top of the division.
So if Koscheck wins, Fitch might just find himself playing gatekeeper to the UFC newbies. Why have him play spoiler?
This is a very telling insight into how the UFC works with the fighters under contract to them. Some fighters get some options — for example, Rich Franklin and Forrest Griffin apparently had the latitude to turn down a bout with Jon Jones.
First there really isn’t anything that insightfull about this, second where in the article does it even suggest that Franklin or Forrest are ducking fights.
See this is what I mean when people are reaching, Forrest and Rich have fought everyone the UFC wanted them to fight. This myth that keeps popping up needs to stop, Jones isn’t some god and guys aren’t running around hiding from him seriously enough is enough.
"they mad at me, I keep going hard reppin/
cause what's your Rampage to Rashad Evans/"
-Joe Budden (Something To Ride To)
http://www.zshare.net/audio/76866807deabe3c1/
Don't think he ever said "ducking"
Just that they (Rich and Forrest) turned down fighting Jon Bones. Rich I’m not sure about, but I remember reading Forrest talk about Bones not too long ago and it was pretty obvious to me he didn’t want any part of that fight.
Forrest also said...
that Little Nog was an absolute worst match up for him because of both style and the fact that they had trained together…yet he still signed for the fight.
I seriously doubt that Forrest would turn down a fight due to fear of a loss, else he would have ran before the Anderson fight, not afterward.
I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.
Forrest said at the end of his rant about how bad Jones would kick his ass that he would still fight him, and really he said very similar things about Anderson and still took that fight anyway. Forrest’s whole line of thinking for the Bones fight was basically “it couldn’t be worse then Anderson.”
Josh Barnett is a thrice proven juicer with a pro wrestling mindset and a personality that would lead you to believe he's never had a romantic encounter that didn’t start with "you gotta pay me upfront."
Forest basically says that about everyone.
“Jonathan Goulet? Man that guy would totally whup my ass, I must be dumb as shit but I took the fight anyway.”
Guillotine.
It is worth noting that it is not the UFC making somebody fight, but rather them offering a fight. If you say no, you don’t fight at that time.
“They usually give you A or B or C and you get to choose. But sometimes they just give you A, and either you take the fight or you don’t. But in general with the UFC, they tell you who they want you to fight.”
Look at the bold print, that says it all.
That picture...
makes Joe Silva look like some obscure diplomat at the U.N.
I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.

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