Where Are the Stars? As UFC Main Eventers Age, No Replacements in Sight

I find myself often wondering the same things. When the Pride early Zuffa era fighters retire leave etc. Where do we go from there?

Frankie Edgar – a great fighter who couldn’t draw 5000 people on the power of his name to any arena in the world.

I think the people of New Jersey would disagree. He could definitely draw 5k there. Seemed like a pointless shot in an otherwise good article.

YIPPY, they are a joy to watch!!!!!!!!!!!

The few fighters that you mentioned such as Jon Jones & Cain Valasquez will benefit in the spotlight once they are able to knock off a few of the “old guard”. Cain Valasquez will become huge if he’s able to beat BROCKLENSAR in front of a 1mil different households.

What makes you say that Silva and Penn have peaked in their atheletic careers and also how would you suggest Zuffa build these other guys into stars? Interesting and provoking article Snowden, well done.

. . . more and more I find myself agreeing with Snowden articles.

Junior dos Santos is a star in the making.

Lesnar
Jon Jones
GSP
Velasquez
Nate Diaz
Sotiropoulos
Jlo
Condit
Baroni… I keed
Doomsday
Rumble
Rory MacDonald
YES Sanchez
Gerald Harris
Sonnen, believe it!
Brad Tavares
Bader
Phil Davis

These guys are already or can become major players.

I think there were always be new stars in the making, but i do feel a ppv a month is overkill, especially when we have cards like crocop vs mir and i’m a fan of Mir.

I also think if UFC gets in trouble they will actually start modifying the rules to make the fights more ‘exciting’.

Charles Oliveria, and Evan Dunham. Really young, and really well rounded. That’s what I like about them, when you watch them you never know where the fights gonna go.

You know what this sounds like? It sounds like a discussion of politics. I don’t want to discuss politics here, but if you follow politics you know that base vs. general population is a common topic. Should Generic Democratic Politician do things which his base supporters, who are more liberal than the average person, will like, since they are more likely to give him money or go door-to-door for him and support him when things are tough? Or should he do things that are more middle-of-the road to pick up the support of moderates, who are more numerous but whose support cannot be counted on? What is the best balance?

I think Dana White has the same problem. I am part of the UFC’s base. I actually like MMA. I want to watch MMA, and although I do not buy every PPV, I will buy PPVs that have good fighters even if they are not superstars. I also talk about MMA to everyone I know and try to explain why it’s great. I would be perfectly happy if TUF was canceled and fighters were promoted solely on skill without any attention to their charisma or personality.

But Dana also wants to attract more casual fans, who are not devoted to the sport, and to do that he needs things like TUF so that the fighters are more familiar to those casual fans and so that they can learn about the fighters’ personality and so on. For those fans he needs to do things that I am going to think are dumb or unfair or lame, and there are way more casual fans than there are people like me, but he can’t count on those casual fans to spend money and watch shows consistently.

I don’t know what the solution is, but this is a problem that is not unique to the UFC, or to MMA, or even to sports.

There’s an underlying irony to all this. The UFC has never been as big as it is now, yet the stars we talk about are the stars of yesterday. I’m not sure of all the figures but I believe we can all agree that the UFC is bigger now than it was in 2007, the last time Randy successfully defended a title or Chuck won a fight.

BJ has been relevant but he’s run into his fair share of troubles recently. Forrest did well against Tito but I’m not sure we can expect too much from him in the near future. Brock is great but is on the wrong side of 30. Anderson doesn’t draw.

They have an amazing crop of young talent, and yet people are still more interested in the guys they probably didn’t even watch in their heyday.

As far as the details go, TUF is inefficient and the next crop of potential stars aren’t getting the sort of play we might hope for through promotional outlets.

I’m curious, though, if anybody else feels there may be something to be said…

1. for the marketing of the UFC vs. the marketing of individual fighters. Obviously this isn’t a counter to any argument about the lack of star power – we all know the names carry extra PPV numbers. However, I do wonder if the UFC name has been built up enough that, between the perceived legitimacy of its titleholders and the inevitable association with dynamic fights, the promotion could be safe even in a period of relative rebuilding.

2. about the evolution of the sport and its connection to this seeming lack of young talent. While it’s certain that the next crop of superstars will push the envelope, we’ve already seen the transition to the “true mixed martial artist” (or whatever term we may want to use when considering the evolution of the sport) made by fighters among those we’re now referring to as the old guard. Perhaps this has created some perceived need to slowly build the next crop of superstars. St. Pierre was fighting for a title in his third bout with the UFC and Penn was doing the same in his fourth bout if I’m not mistaken. Now of course this can’t be used to say “well look at how easily the superstars of today overcame the old guard…” because both lost in their first efforts. Currently though, having a a relatively inexperienced fighter who is new to the UFC competing for a title so quickly would seem to be imaginable only in weak divisions – Brock among the heavyweights is the most ready example, I suppose.

Hmm, I think most of the big stars we have now kinda made their own place and until the move on and new guys step up you won’t be able to clearly label all the next gen stars.

UFC can only do so much marketing wise with up and comers…this is not pro wrestling where you can decide who will do what. The fights decide that. And that is how the big names we have now got big. Unless you have other guys like Lesnar who come into it already with star power, I think we will have to see who carves out a niche for themselves over the next couple years.

We already have guys like Jon Jones making a name. Ryan Bader is doing well. A handful of guys from TUF have a shot to make something of themselves. But it will all depend on winning fights and winning championships. There will always be room for new stars as the old ones fade.

I think this thread and Kid Nate’s “Is the UFC Burning Out Its Pay Per View Fanbase?” have a ton of crossover talk potential as they both touch on the same thing really. Has the UFC done enough to promote new stars while also not burning out their existing fanbase with a glut of PPVs.

As many have already posted in KN’s thread, I think a great idea would be a less filled PPV schedule while introducing a new weekly / bi-weekly show that spotlights the lesser known talent that the company has signed. While I haven’t been the biggest fan of how Strikeforce has ran their Challenger series, that is exactly the type of show that the UFC needs atm. Add in the occasional interview, training segment, and whatever else to get people interested in the fighters. TUF has it’s place and I don’t think it needs to go away, but there is more than enough room for growth elsewhere.

The UFC really needs to become it’s own feeder organization at this point if they want to continue to see growth in years to come. Regional events have their place and always will, but when potentially talented fighters are coming out of them and walking into places like Strikeforce and Bellator instead of the UFC they are really wasting opportunities in creating new stars. Sure we can always end up seeing somebody like Daniel Cormier get signed by the UFC down the road once he has gone on a huge win streak, but that wastes tons of fights that the UFC could be using to make him a real star before he gets to the big show.

A perfect schedule for me right now would be something like this. 12 PPVs, 6 Fight Nights, and 12-24 ‘Contenders’ a year. I’m doubtful we will see anything like this anytime soon though as I think the UFC is stuck on the idea that a smaller roster works best.

Is early 30’s really old? Not everyone is a Randy couture, I understand that but I think a lot of those guys still have a lot of fight left in them.

But I agree with the possible lack of star power that the UFC may have. A lot of up and coming fighters lack that Charisma that people have now. Lot of fighters come in to win, want that belt, so on and so on. There’s been a lot of decisions lately and the fans would rather see KOs and Subs then it going to the judges. Thats all from a fan’s perspective. Or at least a barnburner of a mtach between 2 equally matched competitiors.

Sonnen, Rampage, and even Koschek have a certain demeanor. A chracter that stands out amongst the other fighters. They have an attitude, they call out fighters, they’re the exception to the MMA fighter trying to win.

I think to being a star in the UFC or MMA in general is something to appeal to the fans. Not just being good but something to impress, something to entertain us, and I think a lot of the new fighters lack that fan appeal.

TUF has proven that it can draw viewers and that people are aware of its existence. What, almost five million people saw the first couple of episodes with Kimbo Slice? So it’s not that people aren’t aware of TUF it’s that nobody gives a crap anymore because there’s almost nobody worth watching.

The format after 12 seasons is incredibly trite and dull. Bunch of dudes in a house. They train. They drink. They talk shit. Maybe ejaculate on someone’s food. All for at least a half hour before a fight happens. At worst, the show goes on like this for 50 minutes and then the fight is over in about 50 seconds.

I really feel that they should be using more of their name fighters on the show and should consider making TUF into standalone one hour episodes. If you have a boring coach (Dan Henderson) or someone that the majority of fight fans strongly dislike (Michael Bisping) and you’re not just stuck with them but with sixteen other fighters nobody gives a shit about for four months, people will leave in droves.

I have no real suggestions aside from the standalone idea, but if the episode sucks one week then at least we wouldn’t have to switch off for an entire season. There should be more fighting with a mix of recognizable names and less banter, petty squabbling and – most importantly – using the show to hype a fight that won’t happen until six months after the show finishes filming (that may not even happen for one reason or another – see Hughes/Serra).

My $0.02.

It’s funny that nobody mentioned the missing ingredient to making a superstar: The sponsor

The truth is, the promotion, like a sports league, can’t do it all. What puts a professional athlete over the top is appearing in a commercial. Urijah Faber outshines everyone in the WEC because for years he’s been featured in TV commercials, and generally treated like a big deal. Same goes for Chuck Liddell. And now we see it with GSP, who is an icon in Canada, but gets UnderArmour and Gatorade exposure.

I can guarantee you, that if Jon Jones became part of a regular Nike campaign, one which showed his face, his name, and demonstrated that he was an MMA fighter, his star would shine brighter. If Roy Nelson actually got that Burger King sponsorship he was angling for, he too would be seen as a big deal. If Bud Light found a way to put Frankie “The Answer” Edgar, and Mike “The Situation” Sorrentino in a spot together, people would want to see him fight, regardless of his Mayweather-esque fighting style.

Part of what makes you a star is that you have to be treated as such. You have to make yourself bigger than (or at least coequal with) the brand. As long as you don’t outshine the brand, you’ll never be a star. That’s where sponsors come into play. UFC should be actively encouraging its athletes to pursue outside sponsorships and promote their outside ventures, like movies or TV appearances, instead of those things always being viewed as sources of contentiousness.

It is obvious that the UFC is trying to build new stars, but it just isn’t happening. There is a reason that Ryan Bader was on the co-main event of UFC 119 and Jon Jones is headlining UFC on Versus cards, and that is because the UFC wants to build them up, but I don’t know if that approach is working as far as making these two into PPV draws. Fighters like Dunham, Sotiropolous, Hathaway, etc are being brought up, but they are still relatively unknown to the casual fanbase.
If a quick solution was there, then I would assume that the UFC would jump at it. I personally believe that while ideas are out there, there is no easy solution to this.
The questions that have to be asked is how Chuck Liddell, Randy Couture, etc became PPV draws. One thing that I noticed with someone like Liddell, Wanderlei and whatnot is that it took time and highlight reel finishes and memorable fights for them to eventually become PPV draws. Have Ryan Bader or Jon Jones had that one fight or moment that really made them stars: no they haven’t. Rashad Evans KOs Chuck Liddell with Liddell’s own move, he wins the TItle in his next fight, and everyone starts to know who Rashad Evans is. On the contrary, Gabriel Gonzaga KOs CroCop with his own move but loses his next fight, and now Gonzaga is in gatekeeper purgatory. This just shows how hard it is to make new stars.
The UFC has most of the top ten fighters in their respected divisions. In almost all those divisions, not even fighters in the top five are what could be considered PPV draws. Obviously, that falls on the fighter himself and the UFC to make them into stars. While Jon Fitch is the second best Welterweight in the world, he isn’t drawing a dime, and that goes for many fighters.
Rich Franklin consistently headlines PPVs, but the thing is that there are many fighters in his weight division (light heavyweight even though he fights at Franklinweight 195 many times) that are better than him, yet these fighters aren’t headlining PPVs. The same goes for Frank Mir and Mirko CroCop.

I think Zuffa is trying to promote Jon Jones. I mean, three free card headliners in a row. Not trying to their best ability ming you, but I see them making an effort with Bones.

But guys like Phil Davis, Johnny Hendricks, Charles Olivera, etc haven’t gotten alotta attention. And many of these prospects seem marketable. Exciting highlight reels and the ufc hype train are still helping Brandon Vera remain recognizable despite his last few performances.

I think the free shopws on spike and versus are great advertising vehicles for showcasing new fighters. The last UFN was pretty good IMO and showcased some good prospects (Olivera) and contenders (Miller, Mardquart). But Zuffa just doesn’t advertise these shows enough to make people care to watch

Guys like Cain, Diego Sanchez and Miguel Torres (and Efrain, Huerta till they got canned) have the potential to be national icons in to Mexican-Americans the likes of De La Hoya and Vargas were in Boxing.

Jon Jones, Phil Davis, Nate Marquardt, Frankie Edgar, Dan Hardy, Josh Koscheck, Junior Dos Santos, Pat Berry, Shogun Rua… All these guys are phenominal fighters, but just need the right marketing to improve their popularity.

I think UFC Primetime is a great way to introduce fans to new fighters, who are on the verge of breaking out.

There are a lot of different aspects to this problem, but I think one of the important ones is the ongoing expansion of the free agent market, and how that has kept some of the best star candidates out of their grasp.

From 2006-2008, they exponentially increased the size of their roster, and created a new class of stars by importing top PRIDE fighters (Anderson, CroCop, Rampage, Nogueira, Wanderlei, Shogun, Hendo) while slowly integrating the TUF standouts (Griffin, Sanchez, Evans, Stevenson, Bisping) into the picture as well.

As the market expanded, particularly in the US with the additions of Bellator FC and Strikeforce as televised brands, free agent names became harder to come by, and UFC went from taking their pick of PRIDE stars to salvaging ex-IFL and Affliction stars like Roy Nelson and Ben Rothwell, while grabbing the B-level PRIDE names left over like Denis Kang and Rogerio Nogueira.

Now the competition for free agents is a war of attrition, with Strikeforce and UFC going tit-for-tat over mid level names like Henderson and Jake Shields, while Bellator tries to pick up top prospects before anyone else can get to them. I think UFC fully expected to have marketable fighters like Fedor Emelianenko, Alistair Overeem, King Mo, Gegard Mousasi, Nick Diaz, Gilbert Melendez, Eddie Alvarez, Hector Lombard, etc. by now. But the way the market has changed means they can no longer rely on a steady stream of new names who can jump in at the top level and carry the ball for them.

is that BJ doesn’t lend any credibility to other fighters when he loses because he has a reputation for being a headcase. If Frankie successfully defends against Maynard, he’ll start to have name recognition.

Another problem was he had next to no exposure/hype before the fight. MMA vets were pooh-poohing his chances and MMA noobs didn’t know who he was. Give it time, Edgar’s second fight with BJ was a great one, with time his reputation could grow. GSP was a below-average draw back when he started, but now people recognize that he has earned his position by merit. People don’t know but people WILL know.

Boxing had arguably the most important sporting event of the century (Rumble in the Jungle) and a generation later no one even knows who the heavyweight champ is. It’s just not like team sports where you can follow a team for years and years, regardless of who’s playing on it.

is that the UFC tends to support guys with zero personality or who toe the company line.

Mir, Penn, Koscheck, Rampage, love em or hate em, at least have personality or well crafted images that can sell. They also have fan friendly fight styles to add (tho each has been involved in a boring fight or two). But Dana White prefers to call them selfish, not team players, or dicks them over. And thats just in front of the cameras, I’m sure he doesn’t support them much in getting them out in front of the public.

I am much more interested in guys like them than in guys like GSP or Rashad, whose trash talking seems forced, and who don’t put on many fan friendly fights.

War machine will carry the torch!!!!

Part of the UFC’s problem is that, besides around the time of a fight, you never see their “stars” come out. Liddell, Couture, Ortiz, and the rest of the old were built at least in part without Zuffa, and had established brands and personalities before the promotion was the major face. The new guys don’t really have that, save for GSP and Lesnar (who was a transplanted star), but even then, you don’t see them pushing St. Pierre or Lesnar for TV appearances or commercials during off time. That might not be Zuffa’s responsibility, but if they ever want to get over the slightly above 1 million buy plateau they’ve hit, they will have to get people to actually know their athletes.

The problem with making the promotion and its president the star rather than the fighters is that nobody really gives a shit in the end. You don’t see these guys except in previews from prior PPVs, reality tv spots, and trailers. In the age of American nano-second attention spans, that is not good enough. White is a refreshing, engaging figure for all of 2 or 3 appearances before the act gets old. He’s not the one in the ring/cage, so why should people really pay attention? The NFL doesn’t make money because those three letters mean so much, but because fans identify so heavily with the athletes and teams that represent their city, athletes they have followed since the NCAA when they were part of major collegiate programs. Maybe the college players don’t always pan out, but people are paying attention very early on.