Is the UFC Burning Out Its Pay Per View Fanbase?
by Nate Wilcox on Sep 28, 2010 11:18 AM EDT
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Jim Ross has some sage advice for Dana White:
UFC is seemingly running into the same dilemma that plagues all companies who do regular PPV's and that is coming up with monthly, marketable attractions and then hoping that the overall cards live up to the hype of a discerning audience who is forking over fleeting, disposable income on an event that might not be 'must see.'
...
I do know that UFC will hit a home run with 'Brocktober' when Brock Lesnar fights Cain Velásquez in October in Anaheim for the coveted UFC Heavyweight Title. One could surmise that many UFC fans are waiting to invest in the Lesnar fight and may have passed on the Mir-Cro Cop event. It's somewhat akin to the WWE PPV prior to Wrestlemania. It's a tough sell.Promoters in general, many of who live a much different life styles than do their target demos, perhaps don't realize that disposable income is still an issue despite economists saying that the recession is over. I'm not buying into the 'being over' aspect of that declaration.
Zach Arnold has a more comprehensive critique:
To channel the spirit of Dana White in a message to UFC, I think the following sentence best describes the current mood of the company's fans and supporters: I hope you have your [expletive] together the next couple of months because if you don't finish out the year strong with good shows, you are at risk of burning out a lot of your faithful fans who simply are overwhelmed by the saturation of b-level and c-level fight cards.
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This is a dangerous path the UFC is on right now. Too many cards, not enough superstars, and a growing sense that the production values are not changing. Turn on a UFC show now and it looks exactly the same as it did five years ago. Turn on a UFC show now and take a look at the crowd reactions to young stars like Evan Dunham. The reaction is very quiet. That's not a good sign because it means that UFC is having trouble building up the mass appeal of their stars. Being a brand-first drawing organization does have its limits. As Quinton "Rampage" Jackson said several months ago in a Fighter's Only interview, the UFC thinks that they can draw with a bunch of symbols and not human beings who are stars in the ring. The balance of that marketing equation needs to change.
...This is not to say that Brock Lesnar won't draw a big buy rate, but his opponent (Cain Velasquez) for the Anaheim show simply doesn't move the needle. If he becomes the next UFC champion, is he in a marketable enough position to make some waves business-wise? So far, the public hasn't taken an enthusiastic liking to him. Velasquez has tried to branch out and market himself, appearing in a recent Lugz commercial. The problem? The ads never say his name or mention who he fights for. If you didn't know who he was already, then you wouldn't know who the hell he is by watching the commercial.
Think about that for a minute. If Cain Velasquez beats Brock Lesnar at UFC 121, the UFC goes from having the most popular attraction in its history as the heavyweight champion to having someone who is virtually unknown to casual fans.
Yes, Velasquez has come up through the UFC ranks and hardcores who watch all the PPVs know who he is, but he's virtually unknown to casual fans. He's had no exposure on The Ultimate Fighter and so far hasn't revealed much in the way of an interesting personality.
The UFC will be investing in a Primetime special featuring both Lesnar and Velasquez, they'd better hope that Cain reveals a more interesting personality than he has thus far. Their marketing angle has focused on his ethnicity to the exclusion of anything else. Will the angle of "the first Mexican heavyweight champion" be enough to make Cain Velasquez a major draw?
Most importantly, the UFC is burning out its most loyal fans by running too many expensive PPVs and keeping ticket prices for live shows way too high for an economy in the dumps.
They are also pouring hours and hours of valuable cable TV time in building up the TUF casts -- fighters who are less and less often developing into serious factors in their divisions.
The UFC needs a way to get fighters like Cain Velasquez, Jon Jones, John Hathaway, Evan Dunham and Phil Davis in front of their Spike TV audience on a more regular basis. Those are the fighters they need to be making into stars, not the Efrain Escuderos and Phillipe Novers of the world.
The UFC is in an enviable business position, but that doesn't mean they can't misplay their hand.
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Astute analysis
As usual. I continue to be surprised — though I know I shouldn’t be — by the quality of Jim Ross’s take on the MMA world.
by StephenDedalus on Sep 28, 2010 10:46 AM EDT reply actions
the old pro wrestling hands
know their shit. The WWE is very much the business blueprint that Dana and the UFC are following so it shouldn’t be a surprise to see the pro wrestling guys with a good understanding of the UFC’s business strengths and weaknesses. They are also very aware of the pitfalls awaiting the UFC.
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by Nate Wilcox on Sep 28, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
he's a Mexican American
but the UFC is pushing him as potentially “the first Mexican heavyweight champion” not me.
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by Nate Wilcox on Sep 28, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I know
Just don’t know how the absurdity of a person born in the U.S. being marketed as a possible “Mexican Heavyweight” gets by the overall analysis.
I didn't endorse that strategy
I see where it has an upside and a downside, but that wasn’t the point I was trying to make.
I noted that’s how they’re marketing him. I questioned if that was enough.
not seeing your problem with what I wrote.
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by Nate Wilcox on Sep 28, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t have a problem with what you wrote… its just pretty absurd and it wasn’t noted, just wanted to see if you and other people actually know that he’s not mexican or even care… because its a pretty important detail for people of the brown persuasion, like myself… hundreds of thousands of which will be watching that fight.
Why should it be a important detail?
If the man wins and wins impressively I could care less if he is white, black, brown, or beaten blue.
I find the whole pushing of a person’s nationality or race sad. I find your thinking it’s an important detail more so.
by Empty Thoughts on Sep 28, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
well the fact that the UFC is building their entire marketing campaign for the fight
as Mexico (Cain) vs the US (Brock) it’s relevant.
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by Nate Wilcox on Sep 28, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
The UFC created that, not me. I’m of Latino background, by saying he’s the possible, “Mexican” champ negates his U.S. citizenship… he was born here. Its not factually correct, i’m pointing out that its problematic. If you find the “pushing of a person’s nationality or race sad” than why don’t you have an issue with the UFC labeling him a “Mexican”?
I actually find it just as sad. At least in their case though they are doing it only to profit off of people who for some reason do care about things like that.
For me if the fighter is a joy to watch, they are a joy to watch. I give a shit about anything else especially the color of their skin.
by Empty Thoughts on Sep 28, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you really this dense?
Regardless of how you feel, it is an established fact that Mexican fans are (1) a very lucrative demographic in fight sports and (2) are VERY nationalistic in how they determine to spend their disposable income on fight sports. If you want to corner the Mexican/Mexican-American market (Zuffa does), then you absolutely, positively MUST have a Mexican/Mexican-American fighter to draw their interest.
I fully understand why they are doing it and if I were working for the UFC I wouldn’t do anything different from a per profit perspective. That doesn’t change the fact that I find the whole practice extremely distasteful and on a personal level could care less about skin color, race, or nationalities. Nor does it change the fact that I find anybody who does care about these ideas sad to say the least.
So the question is at this point, are you truly so dense as not to be able to understand that or are you just looking to argue for some reason?
by Empty Thoughts on Sep 28, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Consistent principles eh?
I find the whole pushing of a person’s nationality or race sad.
I fully understand why they are doing it and if I were working for the UFC I wouldn’t do anything different from a per profit perspective.
This is what should make you “sad.”
Point out the inconsistency there if you would.
I’m sure you are trying to point out that I’d make the same choices if I were in a position to do so and to that I’ll say this. I’m not in the position to make those same choices and I’m glad I’m not because it allows me the freedom to say what I actually believe in while not having to do what makes money instead.
The truth though is that I’m simply stating it is the right move to make when it comes to business. Perhaps I shouldn’t have used myself in the statement but it isn’t hard to follow what I meant. It’s just easier to try and use the statement against me.
by Empty Thoughts on Sep 28, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Your personal preferences aside
Saul “Canelo” Alvarez’s last fight in Mexico garnered 60 million viewers. That’s more than any single futbol/soccer team this year. He’s a Mexican national, so Velasquez can’t match that, but the point is this: if the UFC – through Velasquez or any other fighter of Mexican origin – can tap into a fraction of that then they’ll be cooking with gas.
I’d be screaming bloody murder if the UFC wasn’t promoting Cain’s heritage. Boxing promoters did the same with Chris Arreola before his title shot against Vitali Klitschko. The first Mexican heavyweight champion? Real or perceived Mexican, that could be the ticket to the fight promoting holy land.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
I agree completely.
I just don’t have to like it is all I’m saying.
by Empty Thoughts on Sep 28, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn’t the Mexico/Argentina World Cup game draw even better than that? I was in Mexico City at the time and the news was stating upwards of 80 million watched the game in Mexico. Over 9 million Latin Americans watched the game on Univision on top of that.
I know the point you’re making, I just don’t think Alvarez outdrew Mexico’s elimination game.
http://www.instrength.com
For me if the fighter is a joy to watch, they are a joy to watch. I give a shit about anything else especially the color of their skin.
Save the “sad”, cliche, “I’m color blind” speech. No one’s talking about his skin color except you. I was talking about his nationality.
I’m sure some of your best friends are overly sensitive people of non-color.
Perhaps I can save the speech one day. I doubt it though when the third comment into this post was…
“You know Cain is not a Mexican right?”
Talk about overly sensitive heh?
by Empty Thoughts on Sep 28, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I know Cain's background
but didn’t want to devolve into that whole side issue in this post.
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by Nate Wilcox on Sep 28, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Everything is a downfall if we always compare to Lesnar.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
But I won’t pick against Jon Jones again until I see him lose. - Kwisatz Haderach
I agree with the burnout factor.
I missed my first PPV in almost 3 years last weekend. I watched reruns on TV and wrestled with my kids. Not really sure why, for me the Mir hype train is dead and watching a past his prime Cro Cop is sad.
There just was not much to it. The UFC needs to be careful and not have many of these cards, fans are fickle and the casuals will run off fast.
I haven’t missed a single event in years and even planned our wedding on a weekend that there wouldn’t be a UFC and I have considered not getting a few lately. If you can push fans like us away then you are really doing something wrong
by SplitBreast on Sep 28, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
yup.
Every time people discuss Lesnar, Lesnar and how he’s this huge PPV attraction, blah, blah, blah . . . I just think one thing.
Vince McMahon. Period.
Yet people complain about WWE all day.
Unfortunately most MMA fighters don’t want to go that route.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Sep 28, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah
the WWE built Lesnar, not the UFC
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by Nate Wilcox on Sep 28, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I think its a combination. Brock w/o UFC would tank.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
But I won’t pick against Jon Jones again until I see him lose. - Kwisatz Haderach
well he did initially
at this point, I wouldn’t be so sure.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Sep 28, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
What?
This is getting crazy. To delegate all of the credit to a single party as opposed to the MANY that are responsible for how popular Brock is today (not the least of which is Brock himself) is too much.
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Sep 28, 2010 11:55 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Brock is definitely responsible for Brock’s success, no doubt. But the machine built by Vince McMahon’s son Jr. has created many superstars. Ok, I guess we have to give some credit to Paul Heyman.
. . . and maybe Stephen Neal of the NE Patriots.
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VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Sep 28, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd argue the Vince factor,
and say that Paul Heyman had much more to do with it. Vince gave him the tv time, but without Paul he would have just been a extremely athletic hulking beast who couldn’t speak for the life of himself.
by Empty Thoughts on Sep 28, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Brocktastrophe?
Bandwagon leader for Michael Robinson as Seattle Seahawks starting QB.
by SSreporters on Sep 28, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
As much as I like MMA and am willing to watch as much as possible, I would like the UFC to scale back a on their PPVs. I remember the uproar when UFC 76 was announced without a title fight – most people were eventually satisfied with the idea of getting to see Chuck fight anyway. Now we’ve had a plethora of non-title-fight cards, and they keep getting weaker. Why not have a few less PPVs with more meaningful fights? We’ll also have more anticipation between cards, which’ll make them more exciting.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired. -Jonathan Swift
by Scott C. Broussard on Sep 28, 2010 10:49 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
As long as people keep buying the weak cards, I don’t think UFC will change their business strategy.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
But I won’t pick against Jon Jones again until I see him lose. - Kwisatz Haderach
yup, UFC 78 did pretty well considering the main event Bisping vs. Evans.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Sep 28, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
real cost vs implied cost
Given the UFC’s pay structure and production costs, I suspect that the PPV buys would have to really plummet in order for a show to actually lose money, but they have to be concerned that their image suffers when they put on poor cards.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Sep 28, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Even if it is a weak UFC PPV, there are two important things about it. 1) Money: This is money that the UFC wouldn’t otherwise have. I would assume that even cards like UFC 119 made a profit, but I could be wrong. 2) Card space: There were eleven fights on UFC 119, and the UFC and Joe SIlva has to make a balancing act as far as getting figthers to fight regularly. Some cards have up to fourteen fights and even Fight Nights and TUF Finales will have eleven plus fights on the card, so any available card space is needed for the UFC.
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by chrisbboy82 on Sep 28, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah.
He specifically said though he would take a “big fight” that should be on PPV and put it on free TV.
So basically he probably considers UFC 122’s main event a big fight (if we conveniently ignore we just saw both of these men on cable TV) since it involves title shot hopes. Never mind the rest of the card could actually be put on Fight Night prelims sans Rivera/Sakara, he promised a “big fight” not a “card worth less than $0.00”.
Bandwagon leader for Michael Robinson as Seattle Seahawks starting QB.
by SSreporters on Sep 28, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Here's the full quote
"What I’m going to end up doing is probably taking a big, huge fight that should have been on pay-per-view and put it on free TV. I’m actually working on it right now," said the UFC president. (June 18, 2010)
Bandwagon leader for Michael Robinson as Seattle Seahawks starting QB.
by SSreporters on Sep 28, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Two of the next three numbered events are free on Spike.
That should help. I hope they are stellar events.
I still don’t see it.
2008 – 20 shows
2009 – 20 shows
2010 (counting the rest of the year) – 25 shows
It’s not a huge jump, especially considering 9 were/are on free TV in 2010. I don’t think it has anything to do with Dana’s bank account. I think they’re just testing the waters on running more shows. They had to increase them sooner or later.
http://www.instrength.com
it's because their roster is so bloated
if they had a feeder league they could employ more fighters at less cost and less burn out of the customer base.
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by Nate Wilcox on Sep 28, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
But what does that have to do with what Ross and Arnold are talking about? They’re talking about B and C level shows on PPV. A feeder league doesn’t change that. They’re still gonna run 16 PPV’s a year, and they need fighters for them.
http://www.instrength.com
a feeder league
allows them to keep their huge roster busy without running 16 PPVs a year. They need to run 12 PPVs a year, tops.
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by Nate Wilcox on Sep 28, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
If they can sustain 16, they’re going to run 16. Or more. I don’t understand the idea of a feeder league in this definition, because without the letters UFC they can’t make a lot of money off of it. If they’re not making money off of it, how can they afford to keep salaries as high as they are? It would be similar to the WEC, where salaries are kept low in relation to the revenue they’re generating. I’m just saying you can’t have it both ways.
And if they do keep the letters UFC on it…well, it’s Spike shows, which they already run with less talent, so nothing changes.
http://www.instrength.com
by Tim Burke on Sep 28, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't agree with the idea of a feeder league, but I agree with the PPV numbers going down.
I have no problem with them airing an event every two weeks or twice a month which ever works best for them, they should just alternate between PPV events and fight night cards.
That would make for:
12 or 13 Numbered PPV’s with big stars.
12 or 13 Fight Night cards to build big stars.
Their own data shows that people watch the events in groups. Organizing groups can be difficult. Why not let the people get together based on some type of set schedule. The NFL has turned Sundays into an event, why can’t the UFC attempt to do something similar. It would behoove them to do so.
by truck on Sep 28, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
12 or 13 Fight Night cards to build big stars
I’ve wanted something like this for awhile. Introduce a “Friday Night Fight” style event at a small venue that focuses on the younger fighters. That way you can keep the PPV cards saturated with big talent, and keep the younger guys busy with the “Friday Night Fight” cards.
You gotta pay the troll toll, to get into this boy's soul.
by WestbergIDFC on Sep 28, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
For me, the best scenario is
12 events all in PPV per year. Increase the number of guaranteed aired fights to 10 per event.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
But I won’t pick against Jon Jones again until I see him lose. - Kwisatz Haderach
Didn’t we sit though 9 on Saturday? I mean, that’s obviously including the Spike show and pre-edited fights to insert quickly, but offering whole cards to people on PPV isn’t THAT out there.
http://www.instrength.com
by Tim Burke on Sep 28, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It worked on Saturday because there were a bunch of fast fights. Guaranteeing 10 fights to air will require a huge PPV block, which will increase the price, and can be disastrous if things go the way of Strikeforce Nashville.
1 title fight per event, it should be ok. 5 hours should do it.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
But I won’t pick against Jon Jones again until I see him lose. - Kwisatz Haderach
But this is going to increase the price of the PPV, and that isn’t going to do anything to solve this “problem” that the UFC is charging too much money.
Also, comparisons to Dream/K1 shows aren’t really apt. The only people that sit through the whole thing are the crazy hardcore fans, who don’t need to be marketed to, because they will pay for anything. Shit, Japanese TV doesn’t even show the entire card.
1 UFC event in a month with 10 top of the food chain fights in it for lets say $70. Its intruiging right? Anticipation + quality + quantity. It should work.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
But I won’t pick against Jon Jones again until I see him lose. - Kwisatz Haderach
Only one way to find out is to try it out.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
But I won’t pick against Jon Jones again until I see him lose. - Kwisatz Haderach
you're going to turn a lot of casuals away
if you raise the price another $20, regardless of who you put on the card. It’s expensive enough as it is right now.
by BeeTrain on Sep 28, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
At what cost though?
They could try lots of things, but why fix something that isn’t broken and has very little chance of success?
You are really underselling the impact of the price raise and the time commitment, because on the flipside of a 5 hour card, if you sell a 5 hour card and it ends in 3, it doesn’t matter how exciting those 3 hours were, people are going to be mad.
by Phildo on Sep 28, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Show prelims.
I get your point, don’t worry. Im actually at the same boat as you are “They aren’t going to cut back on PPVs until it actually hurts the bottom line. If people keep buying them, they’re going to keep doing them.”.
It was just my personal preference, and I still think it could work but I see you point.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
But I won’t pick against Jon Jones again until I see him lose. - Kwisatz Haderach
If you’re showing 10 fights, what prelims are there to show? Are you putting on a 15-fight card?
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
Yeah.
If they are indeed using the WWE model, Friday fight night is the answer to Monday Night Raw. Get fans into the habbit of watching free fights every second Friday or at least one Friday a month.
That model by the WWE includes using their biggest stars on those weekly shows and therefore they all work and unbelievable amount of days a year.
Just BE.
Don't follow the WWE Model
Follow the “Friday Night Fights” Model that boxing and ESPN2 had employed. Show a few fights, and sprinkle personality pieces and interviews throughout.
You gotta pay the troll toll, to get into this boy's soul.
by WestbergIDFC on Sep 28, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Whether it be
Friday Night Fights
Monday Night Raw
Monday Night Football
NFL on Sundays
College Football on Saturdays
Hockey Night in Canada with a double header every Saturday
…or any other normal TV show that people will schedule around…
Turning a television show into an event that people will schedule around is good for business.
You mean like the UFC always running PPV’s on saturdays at 10pm EST/7pm PST? Dude, they already do that!
http://www.instrength.com
The UFC doesn’t run weekly shows dude, so I have no idea why you’re making the comparison.
http://www.instrength.com
This thread of discussion is talking about running weekly or at minimum monthly scheduled show. That’s why.
Introduce a "Friday Night Fight" style event
Why is it odd to talk about the thing that we are talking about?
What you’re talking about is branding a “night” for UFC fans to latch onto. No one’s talked about the UFC running weekly. Every one of your examples is of shows that run weekly. In terms of monthly scheduled shows, picking a week doesn’t make much sense, even despite all my other arguments, because…do you really remember what the 3rd saturday of each month is? I sure don’t.
http://www.instrength.com
I bet you could probably figure it out pretty easily by looking at your calendar on your phone though… An Fight night and a numbered event every second week is really simple though. Anything can work if it is marketed properly.
I personally believe taking some of the guessing game out of when the next UFC event will help to increase buy rates. I am the person most of the casual fans I know ask when they want to know what is going on in MMA and I can’t even keep all the dates straight. Setting up the events on a set schedule is one possibility to correct this.
What exactly is your argument? Best I can tell, it is that there aren’t too many shows and everyone else is wrong…
You could just as easily look up the day of the event on your phone or the internet.
My argument is the the sky is not falling and the current system works just fine. They haven’t come close to reaching a saturation point and major changes (other than on the production side) aren’t necessary right now.
http://www.instrength.com
I never said they were oversaturated either
I just think there are ways to tweak it and make it better.
I don’t think it really matters, are there any monthly things that work like this on such a large scale?
And there are a few cards that have weekends associated with them that would mess this up.
There’s a card the day before the super bowl, there’s a card around new year’s, etc. Doing this limits them to 12 PPV’s a year, and makes them slaves to the calendar. Being flexible makes it easier to book things, and limiting the number of PPVs is a crazy idea right now.
The SB and New Years cards
are obviously worth paying attention to, but the last New Years card wasn’t exactly “Big Business” so maybe the day itself isn’t all that valuable.
As for the number of cards… I am suggesting that it is possible for the UFC to do better business and higher buy rates on all of there events if they decrease the number of events and find a way to make the numbered events feel like you are actually watching an “Event” again.
or they could have more Free UFC events / UFN. Casuals won’t recognize anybody without those 3 letters.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
But I won’t pick against Jon Jones again until I see him lose. - Kwisatz Haderach
I agree. More fight night events to build more / bigger stars
will lead to bigger PPVs in the long run.
Absolutely agree
Fighters don’t have enough opportunities to fight or star on a night. Phil Davis gets buried on an undercard on a PPV but might be able to actually be seen on a free fight. Kill TUF and use that money to hold monthly (or biweekly) fight nights.
I suppose there is the fear that free fights will eat into the PPV pie.
by Pantherhare on Sep 28, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Correct me if I am wrong, but
TUF doesn’t cost them any money. They make money off that show. Plus it is free add space.
I was talking about their operating budget
It doesn’t matter if they’re earning a return on those dollars when those dollars could be earning a bigger return elsewhere.
In terms of ad revenue and ad space, a fight night could provide the same thing with the added bonus of gate revenue. Obviously there would be less product placement opportunities, but I think that would be outweighed by the other benefits.
Two events per month may be too many.
Once a month is very reasonable. It can be a monthly event, but two shows a month and sometimes two PPV’s is a lot to ask for.
I sometimes wonder if the UFC would be better off setting a more consistent schedule. A numbered event could happen the second Saturday of every month. There is no rhyme or reason to the current set up. Sometimes events are three weeks apart, sometimes they are six weeks a part, following a set schedule would make things a lot simpler for the casual fan and I don’t really see a ton of downside. I suppose booking events would take a little more work, but I think it would be worth the hassle.
Arena bookings, competitors events, PPV blocks…many things go into the timing of events. If they staged their events at the same time every month, it would be really, really difficult to sort out all the logistics.
http://www.instrength.com
I know it would be difficult, but I think they would benefit greatly.
I don’t know who else hosts UFC parties or even attends them, but I am sure many of you may be the acting UFC / MMA guru of what ever group you belong to. That is the case for me.
How often does everyone hear this question from casual fans…
When is the next UFC?
Yeah, but the UFC roadmap that takes them to different cities would never work. For example, they can only run about 3 saturdays during the entire hockey season in Montreal because the Habs play in the Bell Centre every Saturday. It’s way too restricting, and casuals have many, many ways of figuring out when the show is. The WWE has thought about it now and again and gone against the idea everytime. It’s too much of a hassle compared to the amount of business they might lose.
http://www.instrength.com
Those are TV shows, not PPV. TUF is on the same day every week too. But their PPVs run on all different weeks of the month. Always sunday (like the UFC does with saturday) but no set week in a month.
http://www.instrength.com
They also have the benefit of building a narrative throughout the
weekly programs in order to drum up interest for the PPV’s.
They can give substantially more reasons to buy a card than “Hey, watch this commercial.” There is a reason why the events featuring TUF coaches always do well. This isn’t an option for every card though.
I think the when of the event is more important than the where. If Monteal isn’t available in October, book for December, March or June. The UFC make more money off PPV than they do off live gates, they should be working to maximize that revenue beyond anything else.
The where is ABSOLUTELY important. Live gates a large source of income and are what fan loyalty is built off of, not PPV. You don’t book Montreal in the summer because no one’s there. You can’t book December or March because of hockey. See, there’s a lot more to it than that. Like I said, the idea’s been floated before and ultimately shot down.
http://www.instrength.com
A large live gate will generate less than 5 million.
An increase of 100,000 PPV buys would make the company 2.5 million and could easily make up for any dip.
I’m not saying don’t book Montreal, I’m just saying book it when it is convenient. They do a good chunk of the shows in Vegas, a handful overseas, Montreal, Boston, where ever else.
Does doing Montreal in august make less money than March?
Montreal in August absolutely draws less than March. They ran in May (after hockey season) and drew 1.5 mil less at the gate. And there are plenty of other places where the season affects things just as much. You’re oversimplifying things, I think.
http://www.instrength.com
Was the season what caused the drop in gate and why did this happen? Were there other factors such as who was actually fighting on the card… and I am the one over simplifying things?
Yes, my one point was oversimplifying. You’re correct there. But you’re oversimplifying your entire point. There’s a reason arena bookings are done so far in advance – it’s hard to schedule events. Handcuffing yourself to one week a month to create a schedule that some people might understand better is not good business.
http://www.instrength.com
You are right Nate about some important things
As much as the “superstar” model will never go away completely in a sport like MMA, the growth of the sport is limited by that model. If the UFC wants to grow past that, they have to figure out some way to get enough people to care about fighters who aren’t superstars.
Of course, they don’t need to grow past the superstar model, as their current success shows. But the model, although successful now, is a risky one, for reasons that are obvious to anyone.
I don’t know anything about the MMA business, but in real life I’m a financial/tax consultant, run my own business, and know a hell of a lot about how other people run other kinds of businesses. And from the outside looking in, in just seems like TUF is the biggest missed opportunity in the world.
I don’t understand why they don’t use TUF for the fighters they already have, to build their names up. Show them how to market themselves. They could be building a solid base of second-tier stars who, while unable to sell a PPV on their own, could sell one if, say, four of them were on the same card.
There would be a wide variety of ways to do that, and the coach spot on the show could be given to washed up fighters who still have a name (hiya Chuck!). Perhaps the stardom associated with those older fighters might rub off a little.
I mean, in the bar I was at, people knew who Bader was, and cheered for him, but had no idea who Dunham was. TUF clearly still works, but some of the recent winners—what long term benefit has the UFC gotten out of them?
by Lauren J Darkbloom on Sep 28, 2010 11:01 AM EDT reply actions
I agree with your assessment
Didn’t Serra win a “comeback type” TUF season? I think a good idea would be for them to do more of a WWE-like weekly show (brand new content/big stars making appearances, etc.) but break it up into sections of the first twelve episodes of the year focus on guys looking for anohter chance, the next twelve on rising stars, and another section on the newbies. Seperate the three seasons with your ppv hype shows/countdown shows and I think we’re on to something here.
by black dragon on Sep 28, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope
I don’t think it really is a burnout. The problem is, their stars from a few years ago, are aging and more importantly, becoming less relevant. Fans will pay, but they want to see big fights with big names. 119 had very little relevance, Mir/CC was not a big fight and the rest of the card had little impact on title pictures. Sure Bader has his day coming, but he has not been overly impressive, despite winning, and he is mired in a very deep division.
Guys like Hughes, Liddell, Franklin, Couture, are fading or at least not truly considered legitimate threats to hold the belts again. These are the guys that were selling the UFC not so long ago. Now we have Edgar(who?), GSP (awesome, but he needs competition to keep interest high), Silva (not a big draw), Shogun (injured often in a division where the belt changes hands regularly) and Lesnar (coming back from illness and needs to fight 3-4 times per year).
Who is Edgar’s nemesis? BJ? That ship has sailed. How about GSP? Silva? Sonnen is overrated and suspended. Shogun? LHW may be the most interesting division, competition wise. Lesnar? He hasn’t really fought enough to get the rivalry ball rolling. Sure there is Mir, but that is kind of a stretch at this point.
I think the UFC just hasn’t built their new stars enough and the guys they have in place aren’t that marketable for fights. Seriously, look at some of the matches we have been given:
BJ/Edgar
GSP/Hardy
Silva/anyone or Sonnen (who knew the Sonnen fight would be that interesting heading in?
LHW a ton of names and interesting fights
Lesnar/anyone will be marketable
Where are the fights like Couture/Liddell, Liddell/Tito, Hughes/BJ (no, Hughes BJ 3 doesn’t count anymore).
Maybe I’m wrong, but it just seems we don’t care as much about the new generation of guys coming up. We were all so emotionally vested in the old guard and it just doesn’t seem to be that way now.
The UFC needs a way to get fighters like Cain Velasquez, Jon Jones, John Hathaway, Evan Dunham and Phil Davis in front of their Spike TV audience on a more regular basis.
I agree but the problem is that none of these guys came from TUF. You saw how the Marquardt/Palhares ratings were. Just look at the Fight Night Main Event history:
1 – Marquardt/Salaverry (Which was filled with people from TUF 1)
2 – Tanner/Loiseau (winner faces Franklin as #1 contender, main card had tons of people from TUF 1)
3 – Sylvia/Silva (winner faces Arlovski as #1 contender, main card had same gang from TUF #1)
4 – Evans/Hoger? (lead in to TUF 3)
5 – Silva/Leben
6 – Sanchez/Parisyan
7 – Sanchez/Riggs
8 – Evans/Salmon
9 – Stevenson/Guillard
10 – Stout/Fisher II
11 – Thomas/Florian
12 – Swick/Burkman
13 – Florian/Lauzon
14 – Silva/Irvin
15 – Diaz/Neer
16 – Koscheck/Yoshida
17 – Lauzon/Stephens
18 – Condit/Kampmann
19 – Diaz/Guillard
20 – Diaz/Maynard
21 – Florian/Gomi
22 – Marquardt/Palhares
15/22 Fight Nights had a TUF alum in there.
Casual fans (sadly) only know the biggest names in the sport and anyone they see on TUF. The only way this can work is if they keep putting TUF alums in the main event but also have guys like Jones, Cain, Hathaway, etc. in the co-main slot or something like that.
Bandwagon leader for Michael Robinson as Seattle Seahawks starting QB.
they need to open up TUF
to make room for the new stars, without forcing them to live in the house.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Sep 28, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I wish they could find better ways to create new stars without using TUF
Do a prospects show, biographical thing, highlight in your broadcast (before the very important movie promo!) some rising stars, show unseen prelims on Unleashed, something.
What I’m saying is there is another problem to this and Spike’s UFC programming is monotonous. They need to open it up a bit.
Bandwagon leader for Michael Robinson as Seattle Seahawks starting QB.
by SSreporters on Sep 28, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
They need a UFC Contender show to replace TUF. Partner up with Stallone to do it. Just make sure to show the whole fights and not add any sound effects.
This makes no sense to me. I mean Stallone’s contender show failed and is off the air. TUF has been successful enough to stay on the air. So what is Stallone going to bring to the show besides a name that will cost them big money to pay?
Just BE.
The Contender was awful
Plus they practically had an entire cast filled with pillow-fisted punchers.
Bandwagon leader for Michael Robinson as Seattle Seahawks starting QB.
by SSreporters on Sep 28, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
They could also do another TUF 4 type of show
…or make the prize a seven figure contract instead of a six figure deal.
That would attract some top notch talent and really, a $167,000 / fight payout to the winner of a tournament (albeit exhibition) with actual skill and a ton of marketability isn’t that crazy.
the comeback season was the lowest rated ever
they won’t go back to that a 2nd time
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Sep 28, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't have to be fighters that are already under contract
but they need to attract better talent and paying the winner over $100,000 / per fight wouldn’t be unreasonable.
The UFC needs a way to get fighters like Cain Velasquez, Jon Jones, John Hathaway, Evan Dunham and Phil Davis in front of their Spike TV audience on a more regular basis.
Jon Jones has appeared on three consecutive three free TV shows, including the TUF 10 Finale.
Cain Velasquez appeared on two Fight Night cards before his run through Kongo, Rothwell, and Nogueira.
John Hathaway is English and has been promoted as such.
Evan Dunham beat a TUF champ on a Fight Night card.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
by Mike Fagan on Sep 28, 2010 11:14 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
John Hathaway is English and has been promoted as such.
Hahahahaha. Rec’d.
Bandwagon leader for Michael Robinson as Seattle Seahawks starting QB.
by SSreporters on Sep 28, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s funny to say, but it’s true.
UFC 93 – Dublin, Ireland
UFC 99 – Cologne, Germany
UFC 105 – Manchester, England
UFC 114 – Las Vegas, Nevada (and I think they expected him to lose to Diego here)
UFC 120 – London, England
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
I hope Dana hasn't fooled all of Europe into thinking Marcus Davis is actually European.
Bandwagon leader for Michael Robinson as Seattle Seahawks starting QB.
by SSreporters on Sep 28, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Nah.. we laugh at his silly Irish shtick same as you. Seriously Marcus, it’s the Scots who wear kilts, not the Irish!
by Horselover Fat on Sep 28, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not talking about fights on Spike
I’m talking about behind the scenes stuff that will let them establish their personas with the fans.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Sep 28, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
note that Dunham got zilch reaction from the crowd in Indy
If his one Fight Night appearance were enough to get him over, he’d have gotten some pop from the crowd.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Sep 28, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
after the fight
yes
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Sep 28, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Do ANY lightweights other BJ Penn and Clay Guida get pop from the crowd?
I think it has more to do with casual fans just not giving a shit about that weight division.
The Versus cards that Jon Jones appeared on didn't get a ton of press.
Most people I talked to didn’t know that they existed.
Recent Strkeforce cars have been more entertaining
Without a doubt Strikeforce cards are getting better while UFC cards are getting worse and worse. The arrogance of the UFC is starting to get the best of them. I actually watched UFC 119 at a bar and about 3/4 of the crowd left before the main event because the other fights sucked so badly. About half of what was still left was gone before the third round of the main event began.
I'm not a huge fan of Strikeforce cars
Seating is uncomfortable.
Bandwagon leader for Michael Robinson as Seattle Seahawks starting QB.
by SSreporters on Sep 28, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
The Onstar for SF cars are the worst “turn left…whoops you’ve hit something…sometimes these things happen while driving”
If you want to hear my opinion on Les Miles go to BJPenn.com.
The GPS is even worse
I’m supposed to turn right to go to the restaurant but then Gus Johnson says I’m going for an armbar.
Bandwagon leader for Michael Robinson as Seattle Seahawks starting QB.
by SSreporters on Sep 28, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
yeah don’t even try to ask directions for Jake Shields house.
If you want to hear my opinion on Les Miles go to BJPenn.com.
Worst part is when the Strikeforce car crashes
Dana White pops out of nowhere and smiles at me.
Bandwagon leader for Michael Robinson as Seattle Seahawks starting QB.
by SSreporters on Sep 28, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I hear there’s that one car that is supposedly totally awesome. But it seems they can’t get two of their contractors to come in and actually build it, because one of them builds cars of his own and the other one supposedly builds in hidden nitro-boost whenever he has the opportunity.
To save me some time on 25% of all threads, here's the universal answer to the Fedor-debate: Fedor is the most accomplished MMA fighter ever. That is a fact. If he still is the best fighter at this point in time is up for debate.
The worst part about Strikeforce cars
is that you never know when they’ll be available. Their release date is always TBA.
And don't let the Russian drive it
You gotta pay the troll toll, to get into this boy's soul.
by WestbergIDFC on Sep 28, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Like Frank Shamrock said, the way this is all heading is towards celebrity boxing. I wont be surprised to to see Lindsay Lohan in the UFC by next year.
What they need to do is....
Merge the WEC and UFC and then reduce PPV events to 6 a year. Each card could have an incredible array of talent. We wouldn’t have to slog through boring UFC PPV events. They should continue TUF and Fight Night for up and comers. They could have a cool show about self defense and have these MMA guys showing a human side and encourage people to train for self defense and exercise. How about sending out the fighters to meet kids and teach them about getting exercise?
The WEC alone means we won't have to deal with boring PPV events
Or even boring Fight Nights if we want to start them there.
If the merger happened I guarantee they’d have someone like Leonard Garcia headlining.
Bandwagon leader for Michael Robinson as Seattle Seahawks starting QB.
by SSreporters on Sep 28, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Space it out a bit
two numbered events in two weeks in two consecutive months? WTF?
http://fightdrinker.blogspot.com
by some schmuck in texas on Sep 28, 2010 11:29 AM EDT reply actions
UFC 120 is a Spike card a week before Brock/Cain
UFC 122 is a Spike card a week before Rampage/Machida
Makes you wonder what they really want to do with 120 and 122…
Bandwagon leader for Michael Robinson as Seattle Seahawks starting QB.
by SSreporters on Sep 28, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
good point!
3 hour commercial for ppv!
http://fightdrinker.blogspot.com
by some schmuck in texas on Sep 28, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m confused on this because I like the argument and agree with parts of it. However when I look at the numbers from the UFC PPVs they seem to tell a different story.
From MMA Payout here: http://mmapayout.com/2010/09/ufc-119-payout-perspective/
The UFC 119 buyrate is expected to be relatively weak compared to the last eight events that have all done over 500k buys, but the stellar set of preliminary fights broadcast on Spike might help to boost the show’s bottom line.
While giving perspective on UFC 119 MMA Payout states the last 8 UFC PPVs have all done over 500k buys. Also I believe that run has put the UFC on pace to beat last years PPV buys. That to me counters most anything in this argument.
So for me if they are increasing their PPV buys per year and have a string of events like that it’s hard for me to believe the argument that the UFC is burning out it’s fanbase. The numbers just don’t seem to support the argument and makes it look like an overreaction to one subpar event.
Just BE.
Yeah it’s true, we can bitch all we want on here but if their PPV floor is increasing then it really doesn’t matter. That being said, there is a potential long term problem developing in that their up and coming stars don’t seem to be on the same track their previous stars were.
Which is kind of ironic cause some of those stars were dominating when no one was watching…now tons of people are watching and nobody cares about Evan Dunham.
by BurtBacharach on Sep 28, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
the PPV floor fell
they hadn’t gone below 350,000 in years for even the weakest international cards. This year they went below that multiple times.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Sep 28, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
But they still have managed to turn that around and will surpass the amount of PPV buys from last year.
Just BE.
they haven't turned that around
UFC 119 will be the test. If it does more than 350K they have turned it around. But strong events don’t tell you what your floor is.
If 119 does 250K instead of 300K they will have established a new, even lower floor. Where does that stop?
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Sep 28, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
We are looking at this two different ways. I see it as after those low selling PPV events early in the year they have managed to turn that around and have 8 events in a row above 500k buys. To me that is a turn around. That turn around has put them back on pace to beat last year’s PPV buys.
If at the end of the year the UFC has sold more PPVs this year than last year in this economy then it’s gonna be hard to convince me the UFC has burnt out it’s fanbase.
To me this whole argument just feels like an overreaction to one subpar event. Seriously it is really confusing to me how after 1 subpar event we get another doom and gloom article about the UFC but with 8 events in a row doing above 500k not one story mentioning it or giving the UFC credit for accomplishing that feat. Not sure but I’m guessing it was the first time they ever had 8 events in a row sell above 500k.
Just BE.
I think don't understand stats very well
If they run more events they should make more money. It’s things like buys per event, average gate per card, etc that give indications as to their momentum.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Will the angle of “the first Mexican heavyweight champion” be enough to make Cain Velasquez a major draw?
Well, there is a little problem in the fact that he was born in SALINAS, CALIFORNIA! Does the UFC really think that Cain is not an American citizen, I’m sure many fans do… does the author of this post know this?
I did a doubletake when I saw the marketing spot for this… I guess its absurd only if you apply reason.
So your saying Cain isn’t a Mexican because he was born in the US? Cause I think Cain’s heritage qualifies him as Mexican.
Just BE.
by mattman73 on Sep 28, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m not “saying that”. I’m stating a fact, he’s not Mexican… in order to be Mexican you have to be born in Mexico.
If a fighter’s parents were from Germany and he was born here, wouldn’t it be ridiculous to say, “The first German champion”?
“The Irish Hand Grenade”.
http://www.instrength.com
by Tim Burke on Sep 28, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What???
Spin it however you want but Cain’s Mexican heritage means he is Mexican. He is Mexican by heritage and American by birth.
Just because he was born here doesn’t negate his Mexican heritage and disqualify him from being Mexican. It just means he is American by birth as well.
Just BE.
by mattman73 on Sep 28, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I never said he doesn’t have a Mexican heritage… he’s “Mexican American”, obviously he’s one generation out. But to market it that way basically negates his American citizenship… that’s problematic.
The only people spinning anything is the UFC marketing dept… maybe fans don’t care.
So you're telling us that Cain took Spanish at night school
and got a B?
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Its just easier for people to relate to others using their own heritage
When they say hey that guys a mexican lets go beat him up guess what they aren’t asking for citizenship papers. We dont live in a world where people dont judge a book by its cover. Unfortunately your judged by appearance first. So thats why the UFC is grabbing hold of that mindset of appearance first to get the mexican audience to root for him. Its marketing so that someone at home can relate to the ethnicity or nationality of a fighter.
by Papercut Elbow on Sep 28, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
What they should be doing is repeating how hes a mexican american which i think they have a lot and they have focused on his upbringing a bit by showing him in the Bader bio.
by Papercut Elbow on Sep 28, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, if they were really smart they would be saying, “Latino”, not because its politically correct, but because there are millions of Latinos in the U.S. that never ever want to be identified as a Mexican… their main market is the U.S., the amount of actual Mexicans tuning into this fight is low… but that will definitely work in California where the fight actually is… not sure the effect it will have on a ppv.
I used to play forward for my high school basketball team...
But they promoted me as being from our rival schools town – The Richmond Red Devils.
When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, and he looks you crooked in the eye and he asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail." - Jack Burton
the easy answer is to put the 135ers and 145ers in the ufc
that way u get 2 more title fights and plenty more top 5 and top 10 fighters on ppv cards
the hard part about that is the tv deals which are a pain in the ass, the spike one says that they cant have move than an x amount of ufc shows on a cable network thats not spike and the vs one says the wec cant be a minor league feeder division
once those contracts are up dana will more than likely do the right thing cause i think the WEC is barely profitable
We have a saying back home that if your coming on, COME ON!!!!
The problem with introducing two more divisions is that the UFC would need to put on EVEN MORE cards to keep everyone fighting on a regular basis. Fighters are always complaining that the lead time into fights is too long.
You gotta pay the troll toll, to get into this boy's soul.
by WestbergIDFC on Sep 28, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
not really
cause then u can use the WEC as a feeder and trim the fat a little on the rosters making every ufc fight a ppv quality fight
We have a saying back home that if your coming on, COME ON!!!!
I like it, you like it, but the majority of casuals don’t like watching the smaller guys fight. I don’t know why because they’ve put on some of the best fights this year.
Don’t believe me? Check out how many comments there are after a WEC article or video.
If you want to hear my opinion on Les Miles go to BJPenn.com.
manny pacquio and floyd mayweather disagree
the 145 lb division in boxing is its biggest draw, mma could be the same way when urijah faber was the champ i know many casuals who loved him but kinda stopped following once the somewhat boring mike brown beat him twice
We have a saying back home that if your coming on, COME ON!!!!
You can’t compare boxing to MMA in this definition. Those guys won titles in 5 and 7 weight divisions. THAT"s why they’re super popular.
http://www.instrength.com
If you use the WEC as a feeder league, then the UFC loses the opportunity to build up new stars.
You gotta pay the troll toll, to get into this boy's soul.
by WestbergIDFC on Sep 28, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
thats if u keep the WEC name in place
i see no reason why the UFC stamp couldnt be put on it and called UFC bushido or something like that
We have a saying back home that if your coming on, COME ON!!!!
I must admit, it wasn’t long ago I was counting the days to the next UFC event. It gave the stories a little bit of time to unfold and to build up tension, and it’s always better to have your fanbase wanting a little bit more.
As it is right now, I’m feeling burned out. With lame cards like mir/Crocop, and Marquardt/Palhares, the story gets fragmented and chopped up to an extent. It’s getting to the point where I’m not that interested in watching any of them, even the highly anticipated ones. Maybe I’ve felt I’ve wasted enough money on it already. Good luck to them, I personally think they increased their events too quickly. They should’ve given it a little bit of time.
They aren’t going to cut back on PPVs until it actually hurts the bottom line. If people keep buying them, they’re going to keep doing them.
by Phildo on Sep 28, 2010 11:53 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
This isn't confusing... consumers don't like spending money on shit.
Consumers don’t like spending money on shit. I’m not saying the fighters are shit but the overall card on paper and in reality wasn’t worth $49.95 to me.
Sure Sherk and Dunham was a scrap but if I want to be entertained for $2.99 per minute of action then I’ll call a 900 number.
The UFC needs to focus some of it’s energies and production towards free cards when they have the UFC119 roster of fighters available. Mir & Cro Cop would have still been boring but free boring would be better received than boring that cost something. Plus their names would have been a draw to a free cable TV card.
If Cain beats Brock...
…how can he remain unknown to the casual fan? There’s at least a million people (probably many more including Youtube and other illegal sources) who will see him beat Brock and become champion. Plus, there’s the immediate rematch Brock might get. =)
To save me some time on 25% of all threads, here's the universal answer to the Fedor-debate: Fedor is the most accomplished MMA fighter ever. That is a fact. If he still is the best fighter at this point in time is up for debate.
he'll definitely get some build
especially if he does it in dramatic fashion. but he won’t suddenly equal Brock.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Sep 28, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course not, not at once. But the argument that he is a relative unknown and therefore him winning the title may be bad for the UFC does not hold water, IMO. What will happen ist: Millions will suddenly know Cain and his status will skyrocket. Not on Brocks level, but way higher than now. Brock on the other hand will not go away and will not suddenly draw much less. He’ll get back in the mix, the HW division will be more exciting than ever, the UFC has a champion that appeals to yet another demographic and in the end it will be the best thing that can happen to them, IMO, because they will suddenly have one more potential HW headliner.
To save me some time on 25% of all threads, here's the universal answer to the Fedor-debate: Fedor is the most accomplished MMA fighter ever. That is a fact. If he still is the best fighter at this point in time is up for debate.
Cain becomes a star for beating Lesnar.
A ton of the people watching Lesnar are watching to see him get the shit beat out of him. The guy that does it instantly becomes a star to the casual fan. Combine that with the hispanic crowd that the UFC could better market to and you’ve got a bunch of sports fans coming to MMA. Cain hasn’t been getting much push from the UFC brass, but he would if he takes the title. Not to mention he’s an exciting fight.
@rask4p on Twitter
by rask4p on Sep 28, 2010 12:26 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Classic Business Problem
In the short run, the UFC makes more money by having more PPVs, but in the long run it means its hard to build new stars, grow their brand etc. I’m sure the UFC could get a espn/network deal if they were willing to give a lot of talent, but that costs a lot of money in the short run.
I can only speak for myself in place of jumping on the bandwagon of UFC biz is diving b/c of a couple bad PPVs again.
Personally I am getting a bit burned out on them, but I have been saying that for a while. I would have skipped this last one if friends hadn’t all got together to hang out at the bar and watch it again. I really wish UFC would stick to one per month and make it count.
I tend to agree with this article
I tend to get just about every PPV and watch w/friends, but I do feel like the quality of the cards is suffering a bit. They’ve been able to pull out some very entertaining cards without having marquee names, but each dud card like 119 erodes some of the mystique of the brand, if only a small bit.
1 PPV per month makes a lot of sense. People get their cable bill monthly, so it avoids the sticker shock of having 2 PPV on one bill (date/billing cycle oddities aside).
I consider myself a softcore fan.
The live costs are enormous.
Seriously, for Boston only the absolute backrow was $75. Every other ticket was well over triple figures. I don’t know how people afford to go to them at all.
As far as PPV’s, just pick and choose the ones you want to watch. Think UFC 119 is going to be shit? Don’t buy it. Think 121 or whatever is going to be awesome? Then buy it. I get a lot of people are completists and diehards but it’s not like there aren’t options to see the fight without shelling out 50 bones for the PPV.
UFC ALL ACCESS
Bring it back, but do it with a different format. Make it more like VH1’s “Behind the Music” and simply do a profile of the fighter’s background. Let the casual fans understand who it is that they are rooting for or against. They could air it on a weekly basis before or after TUF and profile somebody new each week. I think they should start with Frankie Edgar (since he’s already a champ) and then go down the line from Bones to Cain to Phil Davis. If done correctly I think it could work really well.
The Press burning out on relevant topics...
you can tell when you start hearing the same story rephrased by 5 writers in an attempt to cover up the fact that hey, i didnt research a real story, so i am going to make these numbers indicate ufc is losing profits , when the opposite is true in all actuality. Come on this isnt news its speculation.
Hardcore fan
I hate this terminology. I watch every ufc ppv that I can get since I can remember. I watch all strikeforce on showtine and hdnet. I even order the mma ppv that are net exclusive only. I still wouldn’t consider myself " hardcore" because everyday I come on here there’s much I didn’t know that people bring up in chat and in articles. Mma is just evolving so fast as of late.
by Bloodsport on Sep 28, 2010 4:10 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
When you actually look at the numbers and don’t go by people who’ve been saying the sky is falling for years the answer is clearly no.
Like i’ve said in the past, if it wasn’t for the fact that I actually do my own homework and follow the buyrates and everything else i’d think the UFC was about to fold. Because that’s all you get from some people in the media they want to drive home a narrative so hard that they ignore facts and keep reaching to make a point.
Facts are the UFC is once again going to break their own ppv buyrate record they’ve already had 2 million dollar plus ppv’s this year. And have had several over 500k buys, and will close out the year with 2 more huge cards. Again when you actually look at the facts and don’t get fooled by the hyperbole you see that they don’t match what some in the media are putting out.
But i’m not surprised that myth was already destroyed this year when everyone claimed that because of injuries some cards didn’t do great that the UFC was in trouble. Yet it doesn’t seem to matter to some in the media about how well the UFC is doing because that doesn’t promote views on a blog but unfounded reaching about their business does nice job.
"they mad at me, I keep going hard reppin/
cause what's your Rampage to Rashad Evans/"
-Joe Budden (Something To Ride To)
http://www.zshare.net/audio/76866807deabe3c1/
Before UFC 119 the UFC had 8 PPVs in a row sell over 500k buys.
8 events in a row over 500k buys gets ignored and nothing written about it but 1 subpar event and it’s doom and gloom for the UFC.
Isn’t it odd how that works?
Just BE.
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