Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: VIDEO: Veterans Share Favorite Sports Memories

Winning Above All: The Greg Jackson Formula

via mrsunshinevegas.files.wordpress.com

Last night Melvin Guillard fans saw something they had never seen before. Instead of a dynamic and aggressive performance, Melvin danced in and out, only occasionally throwing a punch at Jeremy Stephens and almost never throwing more than two at any one time. It was an atypical performance from Guillard. For a Greg Jackson trained fighter, however, it was all too recognizable.

Guillard has joined Jackson's team in New Mexico. Even if the move hadn't been trumpeted to the heavens in the MMA media, you could see it in his performance. He barely executed, throwing arm punches and pawing jabs while running in and out. That's fine with someone who can't adjust to your speed like Stephens, but I think he's sending Guillard in the wrong direction. He's trying to get him to fight safer and its like trying to take a lion for a walk down a city street. You could see his gameplan was counter to his attitude.

For Jackson, it hardly matters. With his fighters the gameplan always comes down to one thing - minimizing risk. He definitely encourages a safety first mentality even when a guy has the ability to overwhelm. And that is a frustrating thing. But it's also a winning approach.  In a sport filled to the brim with mediocre trainers, Jackson is one of the best. He's like MMA's Emanuel Steward, winning at the cost of entertainment, fighters destined to be respected but never loved.

Steward is the legendary boxing trainer, famous for molding Tommy Hearns, Wladimir Klitschko  and Lennox Lewis into champions. Like Jackson, Steward first made his name with a fighter who featured a wild, attacking style. In Jackson's case it was Diego Sanchez. For Steward it was Hearns. But later, when working with the transcendent talents of Klitschko, Lewis and Georges St-Pierre, both men found their true colors.

Steward looked at their limitations as fighters and crafted new in ring personalities for them. Klitschko was an aggressive knockout machine with a glass jaw. So how does he dominate? Don't get hit. Tie up when guys get inside. Don't exchange. Ever. Steward did the same thing with Lewis too. It was not pretty, but they were winning strategies.

Jackson does the same thing within an MMA context. He took St-Pierre, a bundle of raw talent and skill and crafted a fighter who seems capable of grinding out wins from now until eternity. As dull as many fans considered St-Pierre's recent title defenses, to Jackson they actually weren't conservative enough. He wanted more control, less submission attempts, less chances to mess things up.

Perhaps the Jackson style is detrimental to interest. But it's excellent at creating winners. And no, he's no miracle worker. Like Steward failed with Andy Lee and to a lesser extent with Jermaine Taylor, Jackson will have his busts too. In the end Jackson is like anyone. He's limited by the canvas in his ability to paint. But when he has a super talent like St-Pierre or Melvin Guillard he will do his best work, winning work, whether fans like it or not.

Comment 124 comments  |  1 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Didn’t Pat Miletich’s camp employ this formula first? Jeremy Horn, Tim Sylvia, Matt Hughes, etc. In its heyday, the only MFS fighters who took many chances were Jens Pulver and Robbie Lawler, no?

Sergio Non,
MMA writer, USA TODAY
http://mma.usatoday.com
http://twitter.com/usatmma

by Sergio Non on Sep 26, 2010 1:14 PM EDT reply actions  

I don’t think that’s a fair assesment. Sylvia wasn’t a cautious fighter for most of his early career. That was beaten into him. I certainly wouldn’t characterize Jeremy Horn as a cautious fighter. Of course, you missed the safest fighter of all – Pat himself.

by Jonathan Snowden on Sep 26, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pat was the worst

ugh I hated watching him fight. contributed a ton to the growth of the sport and should be in the UFC hall of fame IMO but never a fun fighter to watch.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Sep 26, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have to disagree. I used to live in the Midwest when Pat and his camp were running MMA. Horn and Hughes were always exciting fighters. None of the Hughes hate came about until his stint as a tough coach.

by Crosser on Sep 26, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jens UFC fights werent very exciting either outside of when he blasted Lewis (LITTLE EAGLE FLIES AGAIN!!)

He was exciting when he was losing or against sub par competition…his Bushido fight he won with a soccer kick was tight too.

by JimmersonzGlove on Sep 26, 2010 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

His first fight with BJ Penn at UFC 35 is one of the best UFC title fights ever.

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. - Theodore Roosevelt

by Brian Mayes on Sep 26, 2010 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Im glad other people are noticing this.
I dread a fight with a greg Jackson fighter in it now.
Sucks too because of all the greats that are getting on the mind-numbing fight style.

by Crosser on Sep 26, 2010 1:14 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

That's just the direction that MMA is going

More strategy in fights should require fighters to have to be more well-rounded in their art.

I think it will also prolong the career of some fighters as minimizing long-term damage from fights will allow for some fighters to fight sooner and more often.

Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p

by ChicagoMarine on Sep 26, 2010 1:25 PM EDT reply actions  

I think it will also prolong the career of some fighters as minimizing long-term damage from fights will allow for some fighters to fight sooner and more often.

This is why I give Jackson begrudging respect and not hate. A “protection first” mindset will minimize the risk of becoming a vegetable later in life, and if your profession is cage fighting (or boxing) that risk is very great.

When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON

-Joell Ortiz

by The Lethal Haze on Sep 26, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Greg Jackson's successes and failures (off the top of my head)

Successes:
GSP
Rashad
Shane
Nate
Bones
Diego
Condit
Guillard
Failures:
Jardine
Loiseau
Yoshida

by MattParker117 on Sep 26, 2010 1:27 PM EDT reply actions  

GSP is also 50-50 in terms of finishes (I’m not counting 100 due to the groin injury he suffered in the third).

by MattParker117 on Sep 26, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

In the Toquinho fight though, didn’t it look to you like Nate was gonna use the in-and-out strategy until Palhares tried to take it to the ground? And I’m also really wondering how Jon Jones will fight if he suffers a loss, maybe then he’ll become more conservative.

by ThomasJ92 on Sep 26, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Some of the guys listed are Trevor Whitman guys. Some are guys that don’t listen well and are midlevel fighters at best.

I am curious about the gameplan he develops for Jones. Should be interesting.

by Jonathan Snowden on Sep 26, 2010 1:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

You wrote:

With his fighters the gameplan always comes down to one thing – minimizing risk

Clearly this isn’t always true. Maybe it’s true that with his most successful fighters the gameplan is to minimize risk, but that’s a bit different from suggesting that he applies this strategy to all his guys indiscriminately.

by JRN on Sep 26, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s to be expected with any coach. It doesn’t follow from that that Jackson takes the same approach to gameplanning for every fighter.

by JRN on Sep 26, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn’t say he did. They are clearly tailored to the fighter but with the goal of risk mitigation. You are right this is moreso the case with fighters with real potential.

by Jonathan Snowden on Sep 26, 2010 1:56 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I was referring to this again:

. . .always comes down to one thing – minimizing risk

But you’re right, that is different from saying that he takes the same approach to every fighter. I just question the extent to which that’s an intrinsic element of every strategy, for him more so than for any coach worth their salt (who tells their fighters to take unnecessary risks?)

by JRN on Sep 26, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rec'd

"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen

by Charles Awad on Sep 26, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

True but neither Garcia nor Cerrone are anywhere near fighting for multi-million dollar paydays. Letting those guys go out and throw bombs doesn’t carry the same financial risk to Greg Jackson’s bank account as allowing GSP and Rashad to stand and bang. The real litmus test will come if Jones wins the belt. Will Jackson allow Jones to continue fighting like a whirling dervish on speed, or will he turn Jones into a point fighter who uses his speed and reach advantage to get in, throw some leather and kicks, and safely get out.

by Ironbuddha on Sep 26, 2010 1:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Again, there’s a big difference between “he tends to advise his blue-chip fighters to minimize risk” and “With his fighters the gameplan always comes down to one thing – minimizing risk” (emphasis mine).

by JRN on Sep 26, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Correct me if I'm wrong

But I thought Jackson trained his fighters pro bono?

When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON

-Joell Ortiz

by The Lethal Haze on Sep 26, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rashad, GSP, Guillard

Fantastic athletes. Boring gameplans. All too happy to minimize risk on the way to a lackluster decision just because it’s a win.

Was this the type of fight Guillard had in mind when he Got on the mic and called out stephens? Was dancing in and out, point fighting what he was excited about? Certainly not. The fans didn’t want that either. So what happened? Greg Jackson got in the way.

The only reason this sport is popular and lucrative, the only reason it works on a PPV business model is because people are willing to pay good money to see people finish fights or exert a clear, concerted and admirable effort to do so. Without finishes or Dunham – Sherk efforts to get that finish, this sport will not live up to its best potential; it won’t make as much money and won’t attract the best athletes.

by dribblebib on Sep 26, 2010 1:40 PM EDT via mobile reply actions   1 recs

I think Jackson

wants to rack up the wins (and win bonus), they more the fighter gets, the more he cashes out.

by Riney on Sep 26, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t agree at all with your characterization. Jackson is excellent at game planning and he clearly wanted Melvin to minimize on inside exchanges with a very powerful Jeremy Stephens (whose most heralded KO was an inside uppercut on Dos Anjos). How that is an illustration of his coaching style is beyond me. Because of this, Rashad’s recent wrestling-heavy approach and GSP’s amazing wrestling & grinding ground game, he has a philosophy of asking guys not to engage? Please.

Melvin won’t be as conservative in his next outing, I guarantee it.

"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen

by Charles Awad on Sep 26, 2010 1:47 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

So you can guarantee that his next fight will be against someone who doesn’t have KO power? Do you work for the UFC?

by Ironbuddha on Sep 26, 2010 2:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Come on..

He’s not going to fight someone with inside power like Stephens, that’s for sure. Look at the division. He’s not afraid to exchange and can do so with more poise and patience than he has in the past without fighting like he did last night. I think they were extenuating circumstances. Sometimes guys in MMA plan for something to happen that doesn’t. It’s entirely possible he expected Stephens to get wild on him and wanted to catch him coming in, but Stephens was too smart for that (remarkably, if you ask me).

It’s like they were playing chicken to see who would lose their shit first, since they both have a tendency to do so.

"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen

by Charles Awad on Sep 26, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Stephens was too smart for that (remarkably, if you ask me)

lol.

It’s like they were playing chicken to see who would lose their shit first, since they both have a tendency to do so.

This. Guillard in the post presser even admitted he expected more from Stephens. I think he was definitely surprised at how conservative Stephens played it too. While we’re at it, let’s throw Stephens to the sharks too for being a pussy.

by pud333 on Sep 26, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also, I think when Stephens ducked under that first wild punch that Guillard threw and knocked him on his ass just illustrated what could happen if Guillard came in recklessly.

by pud333 on Sep 26, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gomi??

So if Melvin fights Takanori Gomi like he wants then you’re saying that Gomi doesn’t have power like Stephens?

Nope

by NaciremaDream on Sep 26, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

You got me!

I’m such an idiot.

"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen

by Charles Awad on Sep 26, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I gotta disagree with you.

The prototype for this gameplan was Brian Stann vs. Steve Cantwell III. Stann was like a combination of Bisping, Kalib Starnes, and a clumsy Frankie Edgar rolled into a ball of bad fight. They knew Cantwell had the ability to clean KO him and wanted zero risk. So instead of letting a fight break out they turned it into ultimate circling championship.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Sep 26, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I suppose Stann should have showed everyone in that arena who the better fighter was instead.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Sep 26, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bar fights are -—→ down the street

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Sep 26, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Boooooo!

Ufc was founded on the idea of finishing.

"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."

by the-gentle-way on Sep 27, 2010 11:25 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

GSP isn’t a conservative fighter. He takes plenty of chances. Right off the top of my head, in GSP’s last two fights he took a chance at a sub and ended up on his back thanks to the efforts.

Plenty of Jackson fighters aren’t that conservative at all. This is a silly article imo.

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein"
- Goonisis

by Goonisis on Sep 26, 2010 1:55 PM EDT reply actions  

GSP did seem to want to finish Dan Hardy

And he was told by Greg Jackson not to pass guard or go for subs and to just ride out top position if I remember correctly. This goes to the point of this article, that Jackson’s game-planning basically is to avoid risk at all cost.

by Anton Chigurh on Sep 26, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

No

What Greg wanted some G’n’P. Not just to ride it out. And IIRC, he asked for that after GSP had Hardy in two different sub attempts that would have made most guys quit. He was just looking for something to work.

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein"
- Goonisis

by Goonisis on Sep 26, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

No

I remember VERY clearly Greg Jackson telling GSP to “Stop trying to pass the guard… stay in the guard” Greg Jackson is on a mission to single handedly bore down every fight his guys are in. That’s the reason we call it “Jackson’s Bland-Jitsu.”

" Show him your jab Kenny! Serra! Serra! Where's the lip gloss Serra? Keep it up Kenny! Your hair looks marvelous in there! " - Unknown KenFlo corner man

by Comaplata on Sep 26, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I never said he didn't say that. You have it wrong though.

Jackson didn’t what passing or sub attempts not because he wanted to avoid risk and bore you, but because it was pretty apparent at that point that Hardy was unlikely to tap.

It was a “if you can’t tap him out, pound him out” change in game plan.

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein"
- Goonisis

by Goonisis on Sep 26, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Strange

I don’t seem to remember this “pound out” you speak of occurring. Greg Jackson = Good for fighters health, Bad for fans expecting “exciting fights”

" Show him your jab Kenny! Serra! Serra! Where's the lip gloss Serra? Keep it up Kenny! Your hair looks marvelous in there! " - Unknown KenFlo corner man

by Comaplata on Sep 26, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

So people are acting like GnP from guard isn’t effective now?

And yes, GSP did land some damaging GnP later in the fight.

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein"
- Goonisis

by Goonisis on Sep 26, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I din't say elbows from guard aren't effective at all.

Most guys don’t finish fight from there though. I just said most guys prefer to pass to a more dominant position at some point. Some don’t have to, like Jon Jones apparently.

by Anton Chigurh on Sep 26, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

There are at least 4 interviews where Jackson details that he was trying to get GSP to pound him out. You are incorrect.

by selfcritical on Sep 26, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

You do have it wrong

There is at least one post-fight interview with Jackson posted somewhere on BE where he explains he was trying to get GSP to GnP after the first sub didn’t work.

by Kibitz on Sep 26, 2010 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am not sure how serious you are being

But Greg did very clearly tell GSP to stay in Hardy’s guard. Maybe he prefers elbows from guard, but most guys would prefer to advance position when possible. I believe that was GSP’s natural instinct, but Greg reined him in.

by Anton Chigurh on Sep 26, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

What’s left of Brandon Vera’s face agrees… elbows from guard are nasty.

Getting bent out of shape over a fight promoter lying is like getting upset that a hooker won't kiss you. It betrays a deep lack of understanding of the nature of the profession.

by Stanlee on Sep 26, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

They can be

But Jones has a combination of long limbs, athletic ability and killer instinct that makes him super dangerous from that position. Not everyone is or even could be.

by Anton Chigurh on Sep 26, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Randy Couture demonstrated a clear preference for GNP from half guard and has said it’s much better at controlling his opponent than GNP from mount. Tito Ortiz has had “maul him from full guard” as his fight strategy for every fight he’s ever been in.

If someone has the tools to inflict damage from within guard, why pass? Passing for the sake of passing sounds just as bad as takedowns for the sake of takedowns.

Getting bent out of shape over a fight promoter lying is like getting upset that a hooker won't kiss you. It betrays a deep lack of understanding of the nature of the profession.

by Stanlee on Sep 26, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Again, did I say that guard passing is essential and that there is no on that can do effectively cause damage from inside his opponent’s guard? If I had you’d have a great point.

I am not s jiu-jitsu expert or professional trainer, just a fan making observations. I am talking about the GSP-Hardy fight. I just hated to see GSP, who was dominating Hardy from bell to bell, being told to play it so conservatively by Greg Jackson. Maybe it was the right call and I’m completely wrong, but I would like to see a brilliant athlete line GSP perform to his complete potential.

by Anton Chigurh on Sep 26, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

This...

" Show him your jab Kenny! Serra! Serra! Where's the lip gloss Serra? Keep it up Kenny! Your hair looks marvelous in there! " - Unknown KenFlo corner man

by Comaplata on Sep 26, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wasn’t disagreeing with you, just responding to the claim that Jones’s ability to inflict damage from guard was a unique combination of his skillset. I thought it was relevant that two of the sports biggest legends employed the same mentality.

But perhaps this is more convincing:

Getting bent out of shape over a fight promoter lying is like getting upset that a hooker won't kiss you. It betrays a deep lack of understanding of the nature of the profession.

by Stanlee on Sep 26, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Very nice

I have heard Couture talk about his preference for half guard. Tito was “punishing” guys from guard in his heyday. I just meant that Jones seems to have a unique ability to split faces from guard that mast fighters do not.

by Anton Chigurh on Sep 26, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

True but...

Yall are talking about fighters who “preferred” half or full guard, not coaches specifically telling their fighters to stay in the guard and not try to advance their position which is exactly what Greg was telling GSP. Georges had the talent to pass Hardy’s guard and end that fight. Instead, being the good student that he is, he rode out the decision in spectacular Jackson trained fashion.

" Show him your jab Kenny! Serra! Serra! Where's the lip gloss Serra? Keep it up Kenny! Your hair looks marvelous in there! " - Unknown KenFlo corner man

by Comaplata on Sep 26, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pounding from guard is not the conservative choice against Hardy. He drilled heavily on recovering standing from guard. It involved ways for Hardy to be able to get back to his feet, which is a risk. Jackson wants to break down people’s “safe place” in a fight, and Hardy felt safe from guard. So punish him there and make it clear that there’s nowhere that’s safe for him.

by selfcritical on Sep 26, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, and it takes a special kind of moron like yourself to not understand why Jackson said that. He wanted GSP to smash Hardy from inside the guard, not pass and go for subs, and let hardy keep escaping. Jackson was asking for a strategy of more excitement and punishment, not less. But of course we have reactionaries like this author and people like both the author and yourself who don’t even understand the topic they are commenting on.

by Hardcharger on Sep 26, 2010 5:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Wow... we are morons now?

Since when was mount solely used for sub attempts and not brutal GnP? I would like to believe that this argument is not needed. The simple fact that more and more fans, bloggers and commentators are starting to see a common denominator between Greg Jackson fighters and their fight finishes, or lack thereof, should speak for itself.

" Show him your jab Kenny! Serra! Serra! Where's the lip gloss Serra? Keep it up Kenny! Your hair looks marvelous in there! " - Unknown KenFlo corner man

by Comaplata on Sep 26, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mad a little?

You would think I said something about your sister. I’m not trying to act like I know more than Jackson about fight strategy, I am commenting as a fan that I think he GSP could have been more aggressive in that fight. It was my understanding we are here to discuss opinions. No need to get your panties in a twist.

by Anton Chigurh on Sep 26, 2010 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hope you get banned.

 you no nothing about fighting.
And I don’t care for you as a person.

"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."

by the-gentle-way on Sep 27, 2010 12:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

You're best analogy

was the “He’s limited by the canvas in his ability to paint”. That, to me, is the true measure of a trainer. Anyone can have success with a driven, talented professional like GSP or Lennox; it’s what he does with the Guillards of the world that determine if his influence is key.
Also, I wouldn’t call Hearns a “wild and attacking” fighter. He had an astounding base for his punching, nearly straight up and down that he could get away with because of his height. He didn’t really turn into a knock-out machine until after much training by Steward, who polished his rudimentary skills (he’s always said the boxer he patterned himself after was Ali, who was not a wild attacking fighter either).
But as I said above, Steward always had a gym of Jr. Olympic caliber fighters; but Hearns’s natural physical advantages and determination set him apart.

by Dootch on Sep 26, 2010 1:56 PM EDT reply actions  

People only started whining about Jackson because of the wrestling wins

I don’t agree with this take. I think Jackson could have done more with Melvin but it seems like Jackson will only fit a strategy into what a guy likes to do already.

by Revolver on Sep 26, 2010 2:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Possible Re-evaluation

Jackson tries to work to his fighters strengths, whether they be wrestling, Guillard’s speed, or working with Jardine’s redonculous stand-up.

What he also gauges is the plan that gives them the best chance at winning. If he feels his fighter can use a skill-set to dominate his opponent and deviating would only increase the risk of a loss, he’ll coach this game-plan to his fighter. If he feels his guy has a better chance aggressively going after finishes, he’ll coach that. If you look at the fighters he’s coached he has people who would fall into both categories, and he’s had them fight both ways.

What really surprised me was his talk with Guillard after the 2nd. Not just what he said but the tone. It was exactly what Guillard needed to here to stick to the gamplan and not use his old style. That being said, at the time I wasn’t sure that was the best advice for Melvin. It was a very close fight that could have been scored either way, most people would have said go out their full speed ahead to take it out of their hands or leave them with a clear impression of the third. Jackson was alright with fighting for the decision, maybe he’s just really clued in on how judge’s tend to score and knew if Melvin kept at it he would pull out the decision.

Someone with way too much time on their hands should compile a statistical breakdown of what Greg Jackson says between rounds (either be more aggressive, more cautious, or not definite either way, and the outcome of the fight).

by Balrog on Sep 26, 2010 2:06 PM EDT reply actions  

I agree. Winning is even more important in MMA than most other sports though.

Winning, generally means you take less damage. A fighter who does there best to avoid damage and wants to avoid getting knocked unconscious by hard punches is a sensible fighter. Anyone who suggests otherwise is a moron.

by truck on Sep 27, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Some good points

but I can’t agree with everything. Greg Jackson is all about strategy. He’s all about using one’s strengths to attack the opponent’s weaknesses and exploit them there. GSP is the prime example of that. When he fought Fitch, he tooled him in the stand-up game. When he fought BJ Penn, he wore him out with wrestling then proceeded to tenderize him with some great ground and pound, and only exchanged with him standing after Penn was already tired. After that, he wrestles Alves knowing Alves’ wrestling and ground game were the weak points. Sure, GSP actually beat Alves in exchanges on the feet, but only when he had to. With Hardy, it was all about the ground game, and unlike Alves, Hardy had no ability to get back to his feet. And as good as Kos has become over the years, his stand-up just isn’t as good as he thinks it is, so I’m betting GSP keeps the fight standing and takes him out on the feet.

The point is, it’s all about risk vs reward. Take the least amount of risk you have to in order to get the greatest reward. Guillard was just fine in his last fight. This fight, Stephens had the very realistic ability to KO him. It made sense to fight the way Guillard did. I think being with Team Jackson has really turned Guillard around. It’s given him structure and discipline, so instead of getting into trouble, he’s training. Would I have liked to have seen a barn burner of a fight last night? Of course. That would have been great. I’m not going to lie. But I’m not going to criticize someone for trying to win and be successful, even if they have to play it a bit conservative. After all, it’s not like I, or most people, take a lot of unnecessary risk in our own lives if we can avoid it.

by pud333 on Sep 26, 2010 2:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Given that UFC has shown a tendency to cut fighters who manage to lose two in a row and even a single loss can toss one from top of the card to curtain jerker or prelims, one can hardly blame fighters for wanting to win above all. In order to keep one’s job at UFC despite losing, one has to be something really spectacular. Sadly, not nearly every fighter has the tools for that.

Greg Jackson’s job – like every other coach’s job – is to train his fighters so they win. Good, bad or indifferent – winning is where it’s at. If you win, it means your career progresses. If you don’t, you’ll probably have to take a step back. Simple as that. If a coach does not develop the best strategy he can come up with, he’s not doing his job.

Don't like wrestling in MMA? Go watch K-1.
Can't deal with the occasional boring fight? Let me introduce you to ROH.

Dear Mr. White - would it kill you to drop a few f-bombs less?

by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Sep 26, 2010 2:20 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

This.

If you want fighters to prioritize being exciting over winning you can’t have them fighting in an organization where any single loss can be reason for losing your job regardless of context.

Mayhem said that you are his idol.
Sakuraba: If he means it, he should demonstrate his respect. If he means it, he shouldn't punch me...If he does that during the fight, I'm gonna say "Hey, what you are doing right now is not even close to respecting me!" Then I'lI probably throw him on the judge's table.

by lowellthehammer on Sep 26, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep. Pay them better and you'll see more exciting fights

/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun

by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 26, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Paying better can’t hurt but more job security would help even more. If a guy who fights in the prelims knows for a stone cold fact that he won’t be cut even if he loses on a given night, he might be more likely to bring his game and go for it rather than look for a safe decision. In the end, UFC’s propensity to fire guys after one or two poor performances only hurts them in the long run.

Don't like wrestling in MMA? Go watch K-1.
Can't deal with the occasional boring fight? Let me introduce you to ROH.

Dear Mr. White - would it kill you to drop a few f-bombs less?

by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Sep 26, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is exactly what I was saying.

Mayhem said that you are his idol.
Sakuraba: If he means it, he should demonstrate his respect. If he means it, he shouldn't punch me...If he does that during the fight, I'm gonna say "Hey, what you are doing right now is not even close to respecting me!" Then I'lI probably throw him on the judge's table.

by lowellthehammer on Sep 26, 2010 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep.

/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun

by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 26, 2010 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Klitscho has a glass jaw?

He has three losses, two by real ko and is still knocking everyone out he is facing. There is no worry about him fighting too safe to not finish the fight which seems to be people’s problem

"All I guarantee is violence" - Wand

by rockied on Sep 26, 2010 2:23 PM EDT reply actions  

Klitschko has been knocked down a billion times. And that first KO loss is plenty legit too.

by VirtualBalboa on Sep 26, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think everyone is getting cared away with the Greg Jackson vitriol.

Greg Jackson’s MMA philosophy has really come under fire after the recent performances of 3 Jackson trained fighters in particular: Melvin Guillard, Rashad Evans, and George St. Pierre. But think about it, how smart would it be for Melvin, Rashad, and George to go out and trade with guys that are proven KO artists in Jeremy Stephens, Rampage, and Dan Hardy respectively? Remember we are dealing with a sport here, and the goal is to win. It’s a tad unrealistic for some MMA fans to want every fight to be highly entertaining (in the JUST BLEED sense) while maintaining sporting merit. That said, in the interest of winning their recent, respective bouts, Melvin, Rashad, and GSP did what that had to do to WIN. If they had gone out and exchanged with guys that wanted them to do just that, they would have probably ended up on the short-end of the stick and everyone afterwards questioning their strategy. Snowden, I think you would agree that playing to your opponents strengths is not the smartest game-plan?

by KAN0 on Sep 26, 2010 2:23 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

Fedor really doesn’t seem like he has a curtailed game-plan for any particular opponent. He takes what you give him, besting his opponents where they want to go because he’s just that good. I don’t think he makes a conscious effort to fight his opponents where their best, he’s just comfortable where ever the fight goes against any opponent.

by KAN0 on Sep 26, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah

I especially liked how he took what Werdum gave him and bested him… It was the best single tap I’ve ever seen.

" Show him your jab Kenny! Serra! Serra! Where's the lip gloss Serra? Keep it up Kenny! Your hair looks marvelous in there! " - Unknown KenFlo corner man

by Comaplata on Sep 26, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well it looks like you got me

Werdum got him so everything else he did in the past means absolutely shit.

by KAN0 on Sep 26, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

If he had just stood back up instead of diving into Werdum’s guard, would he be Fedor?

by Rufford on Sep 26, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

And actually the Werdum fight is a perfect example of Fedor not really caring where the fight goes, regardless of the opponent.

by KAN0 on Sep 26, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I disagree. Fedor is a master game planner. People forget he was the one who figured out Mirko in MMA by backing him up…and the strategy in the 3rd Nog fight totally baffled Nog who had no answer. In the Sylvia fight, instead of getting picked apart from a distance, he swarmed him and got him out early.

In his biggest fights with everything on the line, he showed up with a great gameplan.

by JimmersonzGlove on Sep 26, 2010 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

LOL@ Hardy being a “proven KO artist” I agree with the rest though…

by mthom on Sep 26, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Hardy’s past performances show that he has power in his hands, but regardless of whether you think Hardy has thunder in his hands you can’t dispute that he is in his element while on his feet exchanging.

by KAN0 on Sep 26, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

having seen GSP beat the brakes off of GSP and Fitch, then watching him dry hump Hardy for 5 rds all but entirely on the ground…..was atrocious.

seeing Guillard with the clear advantage in speed and reaction dance around for 3 rds was also boring. Guillard has legit explosive power and the reaction time to use it at this stage in his career. that athleticism won’t last forever and when that changes, fine, go for the conservative/safer plan. but to do it now is just meh.

Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei. Basillio. Harry Greb.

by theworldsoldestsport on Sep 26, 2010 2:30 PM EDT reply actions  

beat the brakes off himself?

odd typo you got there

http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/

by Cory Braiterman on Sep 26, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

it means Jackson does his job

which is to prepare his fighters for win$$. Guillard used to gight like a dumbass which is entertaining but leaves hom with nothing.

..!..

by nostraboris on Sep 26, 2010 2:53 PM EDT reply actions  

After reading this article, the big question to me is

When is this safe, conservative teaching going to take effect on Condit, Cerrone and Garcia. Because they would all be considered the opposite of conservative.

by SimplePsych on Sep 26, 2010 3:06 PM EDT reply actions  

I’d rec this twice if I could.

Don't like wrestling in MMA? Go watch K-1.
Can't deal with the occasional boring fight? Let me introduce you to ROH.

Dear Mr. White - would it kill you to drop a few f-bombs less?

by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Sep 26, 2010 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've got you.

Mayhem said that you are his idol.
Sakuraba: If he means it, he should demonstrate his respect. If he means it, he shouldn't punch me...If he does that during the fight, I'm gonna say "Hey, what you are doing right now is not even close to respecting me!" Then I'lI probably throw him on the judge's table.

by lowellthehammer on Sep 26, 2010 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I did not enjoy that fight...

…but I concede that it had more to do with the limitations of Jeremy Stephens. Similarly I didn’t really enjoy Serra-Lytle, but I put the blame on Serra (I’m not fond of fighters willfully fighting losing kickboxing battles when they have better tools in the locker).

"With gold thou boughtest Gýmir's daughter,
and so gavest away thy sword:
but when Muspell's sons through the dark forest ride,
thou, unhappy, wilt not have wherewith to fight."
~ Lokasenna

by VenusBlue on Sep 27, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is there a real difference in training at Grudge or training at Jackson's?

The guys from Grudge seem to take risks and the guys at Jackson’s don’t. Greg is a great coach but I do feel he take’s the safest road to victory with a lot of his fighters. The success of GSP & Rashad have made him extremely sought after and unfortunately this also means success must continue. Fighting safe fights means the greater chance of coming away with a win.

Also are guys still traveling to Albuquerque or are they going to Denver now?

Follow me on twitter @thisredengine

Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com

by Matthew Roth on Sep 26, 2010 3:57 PM EDT reply actions  

From what I've heard from the guys in the Grudge/Jacksons/Tristar alliance

each location is pretty different, and everybody kinda has their preferred camp within the camp to train.

Also, Rashad definitely travels up to Denver to train at Grudge for a week or two at a time.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Sep 26, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jackson's philosophy is called decentralised training

I’ll let him explain:

"Well, we have us here. In Colorado, we have Grudge who’s run by Trevor Wittman, just an amazing trainer, such a great guy. A lot of our fighters are there. We have in Montreal we have Firas Zahabi, who’s another amazing, amazing trainer and everybody at Tri-Star up there, Zahabi MMA if you will. And then in New York we have Phil Nurse who’s just a genius striking instructor as well and then we have an alliance with Renzo Gracie so we’re lucky to have access to all that knowledge as well so we just kind of rotate them through. You never want to have everybody in just one place. First of all, there’s too many people to be in one place and second, there’s so many great coaches, they’re all better coaches than I am so all these guys can give so much knowledge and there’s different sparring partners and so when you have a system like that, what I call decentralized training, when you have a structure where you have that as a premise, then you really can grow. You don’t stagnate. There’s always new information, always new knowledge coming in, I think that’s really important."

by MattParker117 on Sep 26, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

As horrible as your last article was Snowden this one almost topped it, I mean seriously you’re going to bitch about Melvin fightins smart for once in his life. Guillard is a guy with tons of natural talent that has basically had one huge downfall he fights like an idiot and it’s cost him. But now instead of praising him for his gameplan you want to call him boring what a joke.

I love how butthurt people have become because a guy doesn’t go out there and fight like an idiot and lose. I guess it would be better off if he fought like Serra and got his face caved in yeah that was exciting.

Thank god for Greg Jackson, he fixed Evans and will bring him to the UFC LHW title again and he’s done a great job with GSP. But instead I guess people would be happy to see Rashad stand with Rampage and get knocked out and have GSP get caught again because as long as you’re exciting it’s ok gtfoh with that garbage.

"they mad at me, I keep going hard reppin/
cause what's your Rampage to Rashad Evans/"
-Joe Budden (Something To Ride To)
http://www.zshare.net/audio/76866807deabe3c1/

by Nightwhistler on Sep 26, 2010 3:58 PM EDT reply actions  

He didn't "fix" Evans. What are you talking about?

Evans was a natural talent and was going to succeed. He just needed seasoning and experience. Rashad always had great wrestling and fast hands.

/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun

by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 26, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

What Evans needed was to be reminded of what brought him to the dance

Fortunately for him (hopefully), Machida gave him that reminder; I don’t think there was as much complaining about Evans being “wrestle-happy” until after UFC 108.

by Chortles on Sep 26, 2010 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nah, people HATED Rashad and called him boring until he beat Lambert.

And then he KO’d Salmon. To me, his fight with Hogar was a good fight as well as the Bonnar and Imes fight. His bad rap stems from the Murphy and Whitehead fights on the show (the Jardine fight was a war). Two fights out of all his fights were boring. Then after the Thiago fight, people went back to the boring fighter meme.

/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun

by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 26, 2010 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well...

…both the Thiago and the Rampage fights were not really fantastic. Not crappy fights either, sure, but just not that great.

I think, this whole stuff is just transitioning pains however. The new wrestle-heavy style will force MMA fighters to train to either get as strong a wrestling base or develop other “counter-skills”. Once that has happened, we’ll see great matches between opponents with comparable skillsets. Right now, what makes fights “boring” for people, mostly is that one fighter has an edge in wrestling and uses it to grind out a safe decision (which is smart).

To save me some time on 25% of all threads, here's the universal answer to the Fedor-debate: Fedor is the most accomplished MMA fighter ever. That is a fact. If he still is the best fighter at this point in time is up for debate.

by KGNLuc on Sep 27, 2010 7:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Early in his UFC run, Rashad seemed to fight down to the level of his competition.

His fights were boring and he dragged out even the fights where he clearly had an advantage everywhere.

by truck on Sep 27, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

“Last night Melvin Guillard fans saw something they had never seen before. Instead of a dynamic and aggressive performance, Melvin danced in and out, only occasionally throwing a punch at Jeremy Stephens and almost never throwing more than two at any one time. It was an atypical performance from Guillard.”

Obviously, you’ve never seen Guillard’s fight with Gleison Tibau.

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. - Theodore Roosevelt

by Brian Mayes on Sep 26, 2010 4:30 PM EDT reply actions  

This post is retarded. GSP is the most beloved fighter in the UFC and his shows are of the highest rated and watched. His epic destructions of Alves and Fitch is everything a MMA master should be. Quick technique in standup and the perfect mixture of takedowns to nullify his opponent. People complain about the lack of finishes, and don’t realize the types of people he’s fighting. Rashad Knocked out Liddel and went down to Machida firing. his fights with Thiago and Rampage I thoroughly enjoyed. THey weren’t as exciting as his knockouts, but they were still good, and he engaged a lot in them. Then you have Jones, THE most exciting lHW (tough to argue that one). You have Nate the Great, who recently came off of knockouts and epic displays of aggressive Muay Thai, until he was dominated by Chael’s wrestling, he even made that fight exciting in the end. You have SHane Carwin who is a knockout artist who had one of the most exciting fights with Lesnar we’ve witnessed. Condit who always puts on a show.

So you saw one guy go from wreckless brawler to having a bit of a safer gameplan and you somehow twist your rhetoric to apply it to all the fighters? What’s worse, is when it’s pointed right to your face, you seem to refuse to fess up to your obviously twisted bias and continue to spout the same BS next time. You have no shame man. Before you put out these F’n hate diatribes, sleep on it a bit and then approach it with a little more perspective. It’s damned tiring, and the only entertaining part of it is wondering how far you’ll go.

FWIW, your Shamrock and Horn interviews are second to none. Great stuff. The history stuff is great too. Keep it up.

by Dooda on Sep 26, 2010 6:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Interesting angle..not exactly sure I agree with.

In regards to Guillard, I believe you have to look at as a fighter in transition instead of looking each fight as a stand alone event. I liken Jackson’s role to that of almost a hitting coach. You have a hitter with plus power but his swing is too long, he strikes out to much and his pitch selection is poor. You work to shorten his swing and make better decisions and he becomes a different hitter. You deal with a transition period, where his power is zapped but usually they are a better hitter for it.

I say Guillard has taken great strides…he was a man-child when he first started fighting in the UFC. The Clementi debacle and the cocaine being obvious redflags.

The guys who run big camps are starting to get the same type of feedback as all top level Coaches/GMs – too much blowback with they lose and not enough credit when they win.

by aceness on Sep 26, 2010 7:55 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I was planning on writing something very similar...

I think Guillard is in a transitional period where his game, both physical and mental, is being reworked by the Jackson camp. And while I think he has nothing to apologize for in this fight, I think you will see a more complete package coming together as his time at Jackson’s continues. I’m truly amazed that people are so negative about a fighter who used to fold like Sokojou (sp) if he didn’t put opponents away in the first round and is now patiently out working opponents either on the feet in this fight or his much more grappling intensive bout against Torres (if memory serves).

Watching his movement in this fight, I was wondering what Guillard could pick up and implement from the Jones bag of tricks.

I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.

by Razreshat on Sep 26, 2010 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

What Clementi "debacle"? Clementi put his dick in a grown man's face.

/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun

by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 26, 2010 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

This post is retarded. GSP is the most beloved fighter in the UFC and his shows are of the highest rated and watched.

by JimmersonzGlove on Sep 26, 2010 8:53 PM EDT reply actions  

This article suggests that fighters take too much of a physical toll from football and don’t make enough money. http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/9/26/1713627/the-myth-of-the-big-money-ufc-sponsor-check-exposed

While this article suggests that there is something wrong with a fighter trying to minimize that physical toll. Hmm… There is no winning. I guess we should pay them more so they can justify more brain damage?

by truck on Sep 27, 2010 10:44 AM EDT reply actions  

I sensed frustration...
With his fighters the gameplan always comes down to one thing – minimizing risk. He definitely encourages a safety first mentality even when a guy has the ability to overwhelm. And that is a frustrating thing.

Lots of the comments are much stronger though…

by truck on Sep 27, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

What he means is...

…you linked to the wrong article (“sponsoring myth” instead of “Greg Jackson is ruining our slugfests!!1”)

To save me some time on 25% of all threads, here's the universal answer to the Fedor-debate: Fedor is the most accomplished MMA fighter ever. That is a fact. If he still is the best fighter at this point in time is up for debate.

by KGNLuc on Sep 27, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oooor....mabye you didn't

…and I thought I was in a different thread. ;)

To save me some time on 25% of all threads, here's the universal answer to the Fedor-debate: Fedor is the most accomplished MMA fighter ever. That is a fact. If he still is the best fighter at this point in time is up for debate.

by KGNLuc on Sep 27, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great write up Snowden

Nice read! Very observatory, I enjoyed how you linked Steward to Jackson. I believe we have yet to see the extent of what Jackson is capable of doing with the talent he is working with.

"You eat what you kill, and that is all." -Shane Carwin

by James Anthony on Sep 27, 2010 12:39 PM EDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

"I'm working on the intricacies of details of maneuvers that he still doesn't even know the names of." - Frank Mir

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Chilli_pickle_283g_hot_small
Junior Dos Santos' Worst UFC Win is Stefan Struve
Wario_small
BECW3 UFC 146 Recap & Live Post discussion
Wario_small
BECW3 UFC 146 Live Post
Madmen_icon_small
Dan Hardy: The Outlaw (Short documentary film)
Me_2_small
Farewell Frank Mir

Recent FanPosts

Small
The Most Valuable Non-UFC Fighters
Small
USA chants during ufc fights!?!?!?!?!?
220px-johnnycash1969_small
Fighters you aren't sold on ?
Small
Duane Ludwig's chasm...ouch
Rousimar-palhares-picture_small
An Appeal to SBNation
Lebowski_excited_grin_small
Top 5 Potential Replacements for Vitor Belfort Against Wanderlei Silva
Obp_small
Help me get a job

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

MMA Rankings

USA Today / SB Nation Consensus MMA Rankings