Sean Sherk Fighting Age, Odds and Evan Dunham at UFC 119
by Nate Wilcox on Sep 21, 2010 11:20 AM EDT
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The very questionable Frank Mir vs Cro Cop headliner has a lot of fans writing off this card, but it's actually stuffed with meaningful matches. Perhaps none more so than Sean Sherk vs Evan Dunham.
It's a classic future vs past bout. Sean Sherk is the 37 year old former champion. He's got a career full of accomplishments. The 32 notches on his belt include Kenny Florian, Nick Diaz, Tyson Griffin, Karo Parisyan (2x), Hermes Franca and Manny Gamburyan. All four of his losses came to UFC champs: Georges St. Pierre, Matt Hughes, B.J. Penn, and Frankie Edgar.
Dunham meanwhile is the undefeated 28 year old up and comer who's already beaten long-time contender Tyson Griffin, Ultimate Fighter winner Efrain Escudero and Brazilian notable Marcus Aurelio. He's got a well rounded style and has fans buzzing about his potential. A win over Sherk would thrust him to the top of the UFC lightweight contender pile.
Oddsmakers are favoring Dunham over the veteran.
Since losing to Edgar in May of 2009, Sherks's been on a bad luck streak. Sherdog documents the atrocities:
He was forced to drop out of fights against Gleison Tibau at UFC 104 in October (right shoulder injury), Jim Miller at UFC 108 in January (cut on his forehead) and Clay Guida at UFC Live 1 in March (undisclosed injury).
Sherk talked to TSN about the bad luck streak:
"It's tough," Sherk said. "You're training for a fight, you're ready for a fight, you want to fight and then you get hurt. That's no fun.
"But I don't think I would say I've been cursed. I've been fighting professionally for 11 years, I've got 42 professional fights and I've been pulled out of two fights in 11 years. And it just so happens those two fights were back-to-back. It's not a curse by any means, it's just the way it is. We play rough and sometimes you get hurt."
He also talked to TSN about his opponent, Evan Dunham:
"To be honest when they offered me the fight with Dunham, I didn't know who he was and I just said 'OK, sounds good.' I didn't even look into it. I just wanted to fight and I accepted the fight, not knowing who he was.
"After I started watching some video, I'm like 'All right, OK, this is going to be a tough fight. So I better get my ass going and train like I always do. If I do that, then there's nothing to worry about. I know I can hang with the best in the world, I can beat the best in the world.
For his part, Dunham had to make some sacrifices to make this fight too. MMA Weekly gets the scoop:
"I had some plans that I had to cut short, like my brother's wedding and that sort of stuff. But I really can't complain. I'm back at it, and it's always good to keep active.
"(The UFC executives) were like 'yeah, we really want you to fight Sherk on Sept. 25,' and I was thinking 'ah, man. That's really soon. Maybe we can push it back to the next show?' They said 'you know, it's gotta be on this show or we can find somebody else.' So I was like no, screw it. This is my opportunity to fight a guy that I've always wanted to fight," he proclaimed.
"I've looked up to him in the sport, so I jumped up at the opportunity and I was really excited to take on the challenge."
We'll find out on Saturday if the grizzled veteran can stop the rising star.
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I'm picking Dunham to win
The young lion has a lot of momentum behind him, is staying active and is hungry to make a big statement with a win over a name like Sherk.
That said, I’m not completely writing off Sherk like some people are. Sherk’s resume speaks for itself and he certainly isn’t going to just lay down for Dunham. The long layoff due to injuries is the real concern here, so it’ll be interesting to see how well Sherk bounces back.
"If the commission would sanction it and Dana would move, I’d fighter Anderson right now."
- Chael Sonnen at the post fight press conference following his loss to Anderson Silva.
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The long layoff due to injuries is the real concern here
I agree. As you said, Sherk’s resume speaks for itself, and age didn’t look to be a factor in his recent losses so much as strategy(IMO). But I’m also hesitant to pick him to win based on his layoff.
he's also at an age
where performance can suddenly fall of the table.
baseball is history is full of hall of famers who hit .300 one season and then went .100 and retired quickly the following year.
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by Nate Wilcox on Sep 21, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Age combined with inactivity
Could really spell the beginning of the end for a fighter like Sherk.
"If the commission would sanction it and Dana would move, I’d fighter Anderson right now."
- Chael Sonnen at the post fight press conference following his loss to Anderson Silva.
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Though he's not the type of fighter that usually sees such a steep drop
Sherk’s game has never really been about speed. He’s big and strong for his weight class and has good wrestling. That type of fighter in my observation usually sees talent fall off at a much slower rate, whereas guys who rely on speed an elusiveness can just show up one day and not have it.
I’ll take Dunham, but I think Sherk’s problem is going to be more ring rust and the talent of Dunham than any dramatic drop-off in performance.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Sep 21, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
He’s had knee injuries though. It killed Frank Shamrock. Responding to Hardcase in addition to you… Sherk may have been unable to go for power take downs like he once was as a result of his aging body and failing knees. Nothing seems to affect a wrestler worse.
That’s the main reason I’m hesitant to bet a lot on Sherk here. Everyone says he fell in love with his boxing but are we sure he just doesn’t have the ability to shoot anymore because hes knees are in bad shape?
"You should work for 15 minutes to knock your opponent out, submit him, or improve your position to give yourself the best chance of doing either." - Dan Hardy
It kills me too. When I first started watching mma late 2007, i saw some build ups for Sherk’s fight against Penn. I was a little put off by his steroid troubles, but his cave man work outs were wicked.
The level of athleticism that Sherk and several others, (Brock, GSP, etc.) possess really gave me a new level of respect for the sport.
Sherk may have been unable to go for power take downs like he once was as a result of his aging body and failing knees. Nothing seems to affect a wrestler worse.
Hadn’t considered that. I assumed his shift away from his ground game to try and stand and trade was more of a reaction to trying to be more exciting in his fights.
I'm real curious to see what his plan is in this fight
In interviews since the loss to Penn he’s talked a lot about just wanting to put on entertaining fights and I think it’s that mentality that’s led to him thinking he can box his way to victory. If he can come out against Evan and put him on his back early and often I think Sherk could be quite successful here, I just don’t think that’s what he’ll do.
"If the commission would sanction it and Dana would move, I’d fighter Anderson right now."
- Chael Sonnen at the post fight press conference following his loss to Anderson Silva.
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I get the feeling nothing has changed in that department...
Which means Dunham can probably counterstrike him similar to what he did against Tyson Griffin.
He is 10 years younger than Randy Couture
just found that interesting
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by TylerTreese on Sep 21, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
couture is the exception to the rule.
lots of guys don’t even make it to 35 while still remaining competitive.
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Jea, Randy Couture’s training and strict diet is ridiculous. There are few people out there that can be that healthy at that age.
Plus, Randy is more testing himself now so he stays versatile.
i dislike this matchup
i don’t see what sherk, at this age, with his skillset, and his recent performances, can possibly challenge evan dunham with that tyson griffin didn’t.
sherk after tyson griffin is a step down for dunham in every way except one: name recognition.
ufc has put together this fight to build dunham with a win over a marketable, name opponent. the dynamics of the fight itself are pretty uninteresting to me. dunham by domination.
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How can you rag on Sherk for his recent performances?
He lost to Penn and Edgar. Big fucking deal. To conclusively say that Griffin is a level above Sherk is just silly.
IMO the winner of this fight is as credible a contender as the winner of Lauzon-Sotiropoulos.
oooh i’m so silly.
the matchmaking here is completely transparent in its purpose: build dunham at sherk’s expense.
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The fight works for the UFC either way
If Sherk wins, a talented, relatively well-known veteran with a great record gets back on track in the LW division by dispatching a hungry up-and-comer. The fight puts Sherk right back in the contender discussion.
If Dunham wins, the hot explosive prospect hands the talented veteran his only loss at the hands of a non-champion, and solidifies himself as a serious contender.
It is classically good matchmaking in that its a win for the promotion either way.
And while today’s version of Griffin may be arguably better than today’s version of Sherk (though I’m not even really buying that) Sherk is definitely a step up in every way that matters to Dunham.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Sep 21, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Or make Sherk into a contender and keep Dunham as a rising prospect
It’s win-win. Sherk is a viable contender. If Maynard proves to be too big and strong for Edgar, then Sherk is one of the only guys with any chance of beating him.
People said Almeida was being built at Hughes expense. Look at how that turned out.
And yes, it was silly. Did you forget that Sherk beat Griffin?
Or make Sherk into a contender
this is the UFC’s backup plan, but not what they are hoping for or expecting.
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So you can now read the minds of the UFC execs?
Like I said, it’s win-win. If Sherk wins, then he becomes a contender while Dunham remains a future contender. If Dunham wins, then Sherk goes on a Hughes-esque retirement tour. I’d make the case that they want Sherk to win because it gives them two contenders. Even if he loses, Dunham isn’t far from a title shot (consider Josh Koscheck’s loss to Paulo Thiago).
Remember that Maynard is rather boring and trains with Dunham, so if he beats Edgar as expected then he’s likely to remain champ (whether they fight or not) and that’ll sort of suck for the UFC. Sherk got a FOTN in his win against Griffin and has the wrestling and strength to unseat Maynard. Then you open the doors for BJ Penn to make his comeback bid.
by Mint on Sep 21, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So you can now read the minds of the UFC execs?
common sense is all that’s needed for this one
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The UFC is not StrikeForce, or for an even better example, EliteXC. They do not gamble everything on one outcome (okay James Toney was a bit different but give me a break). I imagine they have a preference in most fights, but the matchmaking here seems pretty darn close if anything. Sherk is the bigger name. He’s the guy more people know. Furthermore Evan can certainly be rebuilt should he lose here, while rebuilding Sherk would be more difficult. Finally Dunham is hardly a lopsided a favorite here, more like a slight one. Dunham as the baby-faced young lion is a good marketing angle, and they could definitely use more stars in this division, but this is still win-win for them, and excellent matchmaking in that respect. I don’t think they’re simply hedging their bets, as smart businessmen should.
well, in the big scheme of things this fight isn’t particularly important to the UFC. not really a gamble or anything.
but they don’t care about sherk (sadly). they look at him as a near-retirement guy, with a style that isn’t very exciting… but a former champion label which is great for building an up and coming fighter like dunham.
undefeated, exciting, young lightweight, to move into the contender group and open up some new and intriguing matchup possibilities in a semi-stale division? this is exactly what they are looking for.
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So in what is essentially a zero sum game the UFC wants A but their backup plan is B. Is that you Mike Goldberg?
"You should work for 15 minutes to knock your opponent out, submit him, or improve your position to give yourself the best chance of doing either." - Dan Hardy
It’s not a zero-sum game. They gain more than they lose either way. A hot prospect now becomes a dark horse title contender, or an aging ex-champion gets right back into the mix. Right now, neither one of them is really a contender. Furthermore even if Dunham loses, he can still fight his way back into contention down the road considering how young he is, and Sherk could still be used as a gatekeeper.
Ha
I love Sherk, but dinosaur boxing jokes about him are always funny.
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Sep 21, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
"Injuries"
CSAC official: Hi Mr Sherk. I’ve come to perform your drug test. What’s that? You say your shoulder hurts? But you were hitting a heavy bag when I walked in… So you’re not fighting? Since I’m here, should I do the test anyw..
(DOOR SLAMS)
CSAC official: Okay then.
Koscheck eats it.
by Ozzz on Sep 21, 2010 12:46 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Indeed
Pretending that it’s bad luck that’s been his problem is silly.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
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If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
You guys are both fighter bashing
I have friends that train with him on a day to day. If you’re trying to tell me he manipulated everyone at his gym because he loves steroids so much, you’re full of shit. Cut it out.
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Sep 21, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Um, what exactly is your argument?
Chael took something (allegedly), fought, and hoped he wouldn’t test positive.
Sherk injured his shoulder in training and had to withdraw from UFC 104. It happens to fighters all the time. So the shoulder injury was a lie because of his history with steroids? Well, he tore his rotator cuff in 2006, so he also has a history of shoulder injuries and has tested clean since April 2008. So unless you have some inside information from a credible source you’re willing to share with the BE community, Blackout is right, you’re being a fighter basher and a troll.
by RicketyCricket on Sep 21, 2010 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Has he tested positive before?
He sure has.
So do we need Josh Barnett numbers before we’re allowed to point out positive test plus mystery injuries before events where testing is taking place plus bizarre muscle ballooning equals reasonable doubt?
Koscheck eats it.
If Sherk was utilizing his wrestling more in his previous fights, I would pick him to win even with the long layoff. However, with the layoff combined with the fact that he really hasn’t been using his wrestling makes me pick Evan Dunham to win. Sherk looks to throw arm punches, and if Sherk stands with Dunham, I don’t know what he’ll do about Dunham’s reach. In my opinion, Sherk should look to just win the fight even if he has to use a wet blanket style of fighting instead of trying to be entertaining. He’s had a long layoff and needs to shake the ring rust off.
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I agree
He’s gotta wrestle— not just because it’s his bread and butter, but because as an aging vet, he needs to rely on that tried and true formula to control the pace of the fight (though his cardio has never been in question).
I’m mega excited for this fight and almost made the trip for this card (out of fear that a loss and injury could make this his last). Ended up deciding not to go so I can go to 123, partly due to Big Nog having to pull out. I really hope Sherk wins, and I will be deeply saddened to see his career as a contender end.
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Sep 21, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I can just hear Goldy now,
“Its aaaaaallll over! Evan Dunham IS FOR REAL!”
by RicketyCricket on Sep 21, 2010 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Damn, from the pictures at the top of the post
Sean Sherk could be Dunham’s daddy. They really look alike.
Anyone writting off this card because of Mir vs. CC which is a hell of fight and better than Mir vs. Nog 2 is either and idiot or needs to find a new sport to watch.
As fas as this fight goes, Sherk has a clear way to win this fight the question is will he be willing ot pay the price, it’s easy to just go out and box with guys but is he willing to go back to what got his to where he is today. Dunham is young and very talented but he can’t stop Sherk if he decides to take him down and pound him out, i’m very curious to see if Sherk finally decides to stop the bs and wrestle again.
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cause what's your Rampage to Rashad Evans/"
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i have to lean towards sherk
lets say dunham is this awesome up and comer with an ever rowing skillset, he still has to stop a takedown that no one can(save former and current champs). dunham is good, but not like the fresh blood we have in Jon Jones. i cant see dunham really taking the back or out boxing sherk. sherk on the other hand i can see taking dunham down at will and controling from the top. as far as betting goes, the sherk fight is exactly the way to make rent this month, easy money.
ufc fan boy all the way
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