With Preliminary Estimates for UFC 118 Showing Weak Pay Per View Numbers, How Will They Market Frankie Edgar vs Gray Maynard?
by Kid Nate on Sep 2, 2010 7:21 PM EDT
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Dave Meltzer comments on the upcoming Frankie Edgar vs Gray Maynard UFC lightweight title fight in the Wrestling Observer (subscription required):
That match and Gray Maynard's win over Kenny Florian sets up Edgar vs. Maynard as the next lightweight title fight. There were questions regarding that fight as a main event. Edgar has mostly had exciting fights, but they were low profile and his weakness as a personality has led to him not really being popular even with an excellent record (13-1). Maynard (11-0) has had a string of boring fights, and also doesn't have much to offer from a personality standpoint. After the show, White was pushing the idea that the fight will draw based on the fact Edgar had just dominated Penn, Maynard had won matches to be the rightful top contender, and that Maynard is the only fighter to beat Edgar (via decision by being the bigger, stronger and better wrestler on April 2, 2008 in Broomfield, CO). Unless they put it on a show with a second strong fight, that is going to be a tough sell as a main event.
He also comments on the apparently weak PPV sales for UFC 118:
In estimates we have at press time, trending figures indicated about 570,000. In looking at certain systems that we have contacts with, the numbers were a little above Liddell vs. Franklin (which did 520,000), which would indicate 550,000 to 600,000. But keep in mind both of those indicators pointed to far larger numbers for Silva vs. Sonnen then ended up materializing, but have been accurate predictors in the past. DirecTV numbers, which are the first real figures to come out, indicated a final figure around 600,000, but those numbers indicated a much bigger number than materialized last time. But as we say every time, any figures in the first two weeks are at best estimates.
Based on the reaction we got, the show didn't do all that well at the movie theaters. ...
Bar reports we had were that places were packed for the most part. About half were strong, one-quarter were way down and one-quarter were usual for a non-major show.
I had originally predicted 750,000 buys when the show was announced, but I was counting on the boxer vs. MMA gimmick catching on bigger than it did. Unlike the 8/7 show, where the buildup made me rethink upwards, I was down to thinking 550,000 by fight time, thinking the only boost would be that ESPN Sports Center was playing up the boxer vs. MMA fighter angle, and that could lead to late curiosity buys. But when Toney showed up looking out of shape, I could sense people thinking back to all the bad boxing heavyweight matches with older guys that were such a turnoff. Plus, when Toney took off his pants and his underwear rode down, it made him a comedy figure instead of a really hated guy people wanted to pay to see get shut up by the beloved veteran who did show up in shape. The dynamic I expected to be there wasn't. Plus, even though B.J. Penn has been a big draw the past two years and is one of the company's most popular fighters, and his losing his title and trying to regain it is on paper a strong drawing dynamic, people didn't care about Edgar. Edgar comes from the amateur wrestling mentality when it comes to promoting a fight and himself, and it makes him a tough sell as a headliner. Plus, their first fight was exciting in the sense it was a close fight and you didn't know who was going to win, it was not the kind of fight most fans want to see.
Gray Maynard, himself a long-time collegiate wrestler, promises that the lack of trash talk won't change for the Maynard vs Edgar fight, per MMA Weekly:
"It's great competition. He trains hard. He's a cool guy too. It's cool because his dad is always like 'hey Gray!' talks to me and stuff; nicest guy in the world. So trash talk ain't gonna happen," Maynard said. "But I guarantee you he's going to train hard, and I'll train, and it's going to be a good fight.
"It's all business. Throw the trash talk out, it's just all business."
Good lord. Dana have Chael Sonnen and Rowdy Roddy Piper put on a seminar for your lightweight fighters post haste! With two fighters with pretty dull styles and no interest in trash talk to build the fight, the Edgar vs Maynard bout will not be a strong main event.
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To add
This will be Frankie’s first title defense. And I saw that because this last fight was promoted as “BJ doesn’t have the belt, but we know he’s the real champion wink”. They didn’t give us a reason to care for Frankie Edgar at all as it seemed they were banking on BJ winning. He didn’t and now they’re stuck with a weak champ with a weaker potential champ on the horizon.
They have to protect it with a STRONG main event. This fight can’t main event anything but an overseas show.
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 2, 2010 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
To add more
They need to get Frankie back in the cage as quickly as possible and make him the “workhorse” champ. He’s beaten BJ Penn twice, no man can say that but GSP. They need to promote that.
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 2, 2010 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Both fighters came out unscathed
So perhaps Edgar vs. Maynard to headline UFC 122?
Whilst it’s a remote possibility, it could still happen
1. There’s ten weeks to go before 122 kicks off – ample time for both fighters to train and prepare
2. Dana has been repeatedly pressured to have a title fight in a European show: the last one was UFC 80 in January 2008.
3. Neither Gray or Frankie are likely to have PPV percentages in their contracts at this time*
Booking this fight on ‘122 would make makes a lot of sense from several angles. Belfort / Okami can become the co-main without losing any importance, the European fight fans will get a much-desired title match on their turf and nobody’s paycheck suffers from being on a tape-delay show.
*Edgar was on $48,000 to show, $48,000 to win for his title defence; Maynard was on $23,000 to show, $23.000 to win at UFC 118 [source]
by VikingPhotography on Sep 3, 2010 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
What? James Toney didn't sell eleventy billion extra PPVs over the standard BJ Penn fight?
This card actually did less than Penn’s average since the start of 2008?
Maybe because Toney isn’t a draw in boxing and he’s not a draw in MMA and it was stupid as fuck to put him on a UFC card in the first place.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Don't you understand?
We had to show everyone that MMA was superior to a fat, old boxer in his first MMA fight against a former champion.
WE WON!
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 2, 2010 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
And Zuffa had to pay a disclosed 750,000 to do it!
If they had kept that money, Dana’s 9% could have paid for his kids to have their water slide for another 27 months. That’s over two years of his children’s happiness Dana gave up personally so an old, fat, untrained guy could get beaten up and prove our sport is the best!
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Sep 2, 2010 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions
This has nothing to do with Strikeforce.
End the poisonous discourse of promotional comparision!
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Sep 2, 2010 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions
What a terrible father
Giving James Toney more bling money, meanwhile his kids have to jump in the ppol.
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 2, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You don't know the half of it
He was mainly trying to compliment Rand’s accomplishments, except for the brief period where he was just quoting “Magical Mister Mistopheles” over and over.
Can’t they put Gray/Edgar as the Co with, say, Anderson-Chael or Shogun-Rashad if there are concerns?
Why is it assumed that it must be THE main event?
well anytime
they have to protect a title fight with another headliner it means more PPVs headlined by stuff like Mir vs Cro Cop and Franklin vs Liddell. They can’t fill all the cards they have with compelling headliners when they have 5 strong champs, having another weak champ just makes it this much tougher.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Sep 2, 2010 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I get that. Understandable.
Still, I like cards like 115 and 119 because they’re not top-heavy and they’re really deep, so if the main is a letdown, then who cares?
by BVandDietPepsi on Sep 2, 2010 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Wouldn't it be great if they had a charismatic young Hispanic gentleman as a champion to headline cards in California?
What if it was his current home state as well? What if he could be defending against another charismatic Hispanic gentleman and former titlist with a reputation for always bringing an exciting fight? Not like they have a quintessential Mexican fighter proud of his heritage and willing to market it who could draw a Midwest crowd under contract to Zuffa.
Where the could they ever find an opportunity like that to headline their title fight challenged cards?
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Sep 2, 2010 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions
So crazy it just might work.
Except the UFC clearly doesn’t gave any Hispanic fighters under contract. And exciting Hispanic fighters who bring their A games and finish fights? And who might get the Oscar De La Hoya fan interested in MMA through Hispanic pride? If, and it’s a huge if, those fighters actually existed your idea just might work.
by Ironbuddha on Sep 2, 2010 9:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think having your Hispanic champ fight some kid from California would do better numbers
by John Nash on Sep 2, 2010 10:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You mean a breakout star pretty boy fighting for a title
who handed the current champ his only professional loss? And a NorCal vs. SoCal rivalry to stoke the flames? Oh, if only! What if that midwestern Mexican prototype was potentially able to fight the winner of such a bout?
What crazy fantasies we fans can concoct…
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
It is too bad zuffa doesn’t have such fighters under contract.
by John Nash on Sep 2, 2010 10:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It would also be nice if they could take the possibly most exciting fighter in the world, who is still young and holds a dominating victory over a proven star, and crafted him into a legit headliner in the biggest promotion in the world.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Some Brazilian who doesn't speak english? Fuck that guy!*
UFC needs guys who speak amurican!
*In all seriousness, Jose Aldo is awesome. A mutual friend introduced us asking if I knew who he was and I my reply was “Oh, I certainly know who he is! Just haven’t been introduced yet.” Aldo beaming because I’ve watched his fights and enjoyed them. Huge, ear to ear smile. Really cool guy.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Think smaller
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 2, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Diego doesn't live in California anymore and wasn't born there, so it's not his home state by any definition.
He isn’t Mexican either, he’s Spanish. Also hasn’t touched a belt since KOTC. Good try though.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Oh, of course.
It was a good try at a sarcastic response to meet the criteria, and I earnestly appreciate the effort. It just didn’t fit (preemptive that’s what she said).
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
I also think the Toney stuff turned away some semi-cores
They felt that everything was inevitable. BJ would win, Toney would get smoked. Why pay money? I think it’s well-known I think the Toney fight was a joke.
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
Eh
We all knew a strong card would have to support Edgar/Maynard, or they could finally do another title bout on free TV. It’ll do fine, they’ll be fine..
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
Honestly that's probably the way to go...
put it on TV, pump up that you’re giving away a title fight. If it’s not great then say that all fights aren’t barnburners and point out that you gave away a fucking title fight for “free”
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 2, 2010 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Dana and co are content with "big fights for free" being limited to
Vitor/Okami type fights. Unless they are on network TV I bet they aren’t putting a title fight for “free” anymore.
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
Probably true...
and I don’t blame them. This is the only title fight I can really see putting on TV at this point.
Otherwise you just do what everyone else said and put it as the co-headliner with a really strong fight on top.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 2, 2010 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions
They won't devalue a belt by putting it below a non-title fight.
It’s the Anderson Silva treatment. Chuck, Forrest, Penn, or some other non-titlist draw will be the co-main. Unless they have another title fight to main event.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Sep 2, 2010 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Granted, Maynard being from TUF could justify putting it on Spike.
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
Guys, they don’t NOT put them on free TV because the promotion doesn’t want to. They don’t put them on TV so the champs don’t riot because they didn’t get PPV cuts.
by Jonathan Snowden on Sep 2, 2010 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions
And since Edgar doesn’t get a cut it won’t matter.
by ufc4 on Sep 2, 2010 10:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He does now
Once you win a title, you become a PPV cut fighter
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 2, 2010 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Not true.
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Blackout612 on Sep 3, 2010 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Who was the last title winner to not become a cut guy?
And I’m not talking interim.
Maybe Matt Serra. And Sherk.
LW: BJ, and now Frankfurt
WW: GSP and Hughes
MW: Anderson and Rich
LHW: Rampage, Chuck, Rashad, Machida, Griffin and now Shogun
HW: Sylvia, Couture, Nog, Lesnar
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 3, 2010 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions
See, where you made a mistake was "and now Frank."
We don’t know that yet.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
90% chance he does
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 3, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I honestly believe that it will be a loooong time before a lightweight title fight
Headlines a UFC PPV. No Penn = No headliner. There is only one consistent PPV draw (or regular) in this division.
Put Edgar/Maynard on Spike or co-main on a gigantic PPV.
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
They'll get the Anderson Silva treatment most likely.
Chuck Liddell vs. Forrest Griffin should do the trick nicely as a co-main under Edgar vs. Maynard.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Sep 2, 2010 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I always wondered why they never did Chuck/Forrest
Forrest doesn’t have KO power but Chuck could probably get dented with a jab.
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
Exactly. I think it’s peculiar that we’re almost trying to control who becomes the champion for the sake of numbers. For all the talk that Dana is all about the bottom line, he seems pretty content with Frankie as the champion. We’re talking about over 500k numbers being bad. Do you realize how far we’ve come that that is the case?
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
I think anyone speaking realistically would say disappointing, not bad.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 2, 2010 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I think most of that disappointment is because Toney didn’t draw more, but I think those expectations were unrealistic to begin with. He’s never been a draw in boxing, to my knowledge.
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
That makes things tough
Because if we assume that title fights are a staple of the main event rotation, then the UFC is handicapped with only 4 out of their five titles being viable headliners.
"If the commission would sanction it and Dana would move, I’d fighter Anderson right now."
- Chael Sonnen at the post fight press conference following his loss to Anderson Silva.
Support independent artists
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by Worldisart on Sep 2, 2010 7:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That is not a handicap. They are only handicapped by losing main event fighters (injury, defection), not by different guys holding a belt. As a serious fan, I’m excited about the prospect of a title fight for the legitimate #1 lightweight in the world coupled with another title fight or major drawing fight. Why is this bad for us?
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
Honestly, only two are draws
GSP and Lesnar. Silva has been the weakest of the bunch and Shogun is unproven.
Perhaps.
At most we’ll have to wait a year. By then, Jose Aldo should be ready to make the jump up to LW.
I is hopeful.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Sep 2, 2010 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Edgar comes from the amateur wrestling mentality when it comes to promoting a fight and himself
What does this mean?
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired. -Jonathan Swift
by Scott C. Broussard on Sep 2, 2010 7:33 PM EDT reply actions
it means
he never says anything bad about his opponents, doesn’t brag, doesn’t have a flashy personality, etc.
I think Meltzer is reflecting his ignorance of amateur wrestling though as big personalities like Ben Askren and Johny Hendricks had fans cheering and booing hard for them throughout their college careers.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
It means
“he never says anything bad about his opponents, doesn’t brag, doesn’t have a flashy personality, etc.”
You just described my ideal fighter.
BOOSH
You just described a boring MMA fighter that no one will pay to see
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 2, 2010 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions
GSP has physical charisma and he's pretty flashy in terms of personality
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 3, 2010 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions
author of the most quoted MMA trash-talk line of all time
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
No offense, but Meltzer is actually pretty well connected in the amateur scene. He knows more than the rest of us about EVERYTHING!
by Jonathan Snowden on Sep 2, 2010 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions
No
it’s just the way it is.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
CagesideSeats.com
Follow me on Twitter at GenoMrosko
Personally
I like Gray and Frankie’s approach. Speak softly (and in Maynard’s case, slowly) and fight hard.
Edgar, Boring?
The assertion that Edgar’s style is boring makes no sense to me. His style is similar to the best 145ers in WEC, like Jorgensen. He’s just able to get away from counter-punches.
Watch the round where he finishes Veach with a huge punch and choke. Watch round 3 against Sherk or his fight with Tyson Griffin, which I contend is a Top Ten UFC fight.
I agree, this bout cannot anchor a PPV, but that’s because these guys are not marketable stars. That’s different than being a boring fighter. The WEC has maybe 2.5 marketable stars, but a sick roster of exciting fighters…lots of whom usually go to a decision.
The move here is to have this fight be a co-main event of GSP/Kos or Sonnen/Silva, or, possibly Brock/Cain vs. Dos Santos.
Edgar is not exciting but he's not boring
Maynard? Oh yeah he’s boring.
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
I don't get the "Edgar is boring" thing either
That was an incredibly beautiful display of striking. He outboxed a guy we’ve talked about for years as having some of the best boxing in the sport.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 2, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
this last one was a pretty good fight
I just think his style is snoozeville. Technical striking with no chance of knock out and little chance of the other guy answering.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
While I value finishing ability I don’t understand why that is a bad thing.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 2, 2010 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I just don't enjoy watching it that much
not something I can help, it’s an emotional response.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
I agree with Nate here (god I hate doing that), Edgar is a great fighter but I prefer a guy who threatens a finish over a guy who fights for points.
by ufc4 on Sep 2, 2010 11:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
mma fans share one thing with porn fans
Both are unhappy if there isn’t a finish.
by John Nash on Sep 2, 2010 10:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
Edgar = Jorgensen???!!!!
One plants his feet, throws from the hips, does damage and isn’t afraid to get hit. And you think that describes Edgar?
by Ironbuddha on Sep 2, 2010 10:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
this co-headlines, garuanteed
This will either be the co-main even to Silva-Sonnen II, Shogun-Evans, or Lesnar/Cain-Dos Santos
Vote Quimby
Considering the utter lack of damage suffered by both fighters
Why not just schedule it for 124?
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
"Because You're Not Satisfied by Only 24 Minutes of Fighting"
Edgar – Maynard
"Deserve's got nothing to do with it." -Will Munny, a known thief and murderer, a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition.
You gotta love a world when a 500k to 600k buy show is considered weak, something truly is wrong in how some people in the media view the UFC that much is clear.
Context is everything and that has been lost whenever people talk about them and their business, honestly at some point stepping back and looking at things is the only way to fix it.
As far as selling Frankie vs. Maynard that is far from anything difficult the UFC has sold less. But i’m sure when they do it’ll be a disapointment because it didn’t cross a ridiculous threshold that was never realistic to start with i’m very surprised that Meltzer would be part of that group.
"they mad at me, I keep going hard reppin/
cause what's your Rampage to Rashad Evans/"
-Joe Budden (Something To Ride To)
http://www.zshare.net/audio/76866807deabe3c1/
you just keep your tinfoil hat on tight buddy
us evil media types are busy busy trying to tear down the UFC!!!!
what a joke.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
This is the result of logic and subo spending a lot of time in the comments.
by Jonathan Snowden on Sep 2, 2010 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Unfortunately no. He’s been spouting this sort of nonsense for some time. Hell, I think even logic and subo are embarrassed by his zealotry.
by John Nash on Sep 2, 2010 10:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Actually
Context is exactly why a 500k show is dissapointing to them.
I admire your gumption, just have it turned around.
by BVandDietPepsi on Sep 2, 2010 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions
No I don’t, the fact is anyone expecting GSP numbers for this card is a fool the Penn/Frankie rematch ahd no heat because the first fight was no were near as controversial as many people tried to make.
And while the card was solid over all there was nothing that led me to think that it was going to do great number 500k to 600k buys for this is a big success if you leave out the hype. But it seems that people got themselves so worked up because Toney talked some trash that they made the show and the card something that it wasn’t.
Now you see the same ridiculous aftermath that you got after Rashad beat Rampage, sorry but you don’t get to write tons of articles on the Toney/Couture fight then turn around and call it a farce that had no business of taking place. That makes you a fucking mark, you got played this was a solid show with solid fights to expect anything more than a very solid buyrate is ignorant that’s why i’m surprised about Metlzer’s prediction.
"they mad at me, I keep going hard reppin/
cause what's your Rampage to Rashad Evans/"
-Joe Budden (Something To Ride To)
http://www.zshare.net/audio/76866807deabe3c1/
by Nightwhistler on Sep 2, 2010 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Uh, Dana White at the very least expected a sellout
And didn’t get it.
He also had to have expected a high buyrate otherwise Toney doesn’t get put on the card. Otherwise Toney doesn’t get paid what he got paid.
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 2, 2010 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Whether the show sold out or not is really not a big deal, myself and my friends would have loved to be there ourselves but the economy in Mass sucks big time. Toney’s signing had nothing to do with that or the buyrate it was personal like Dana said he picked a fight and he got it the buyrate was actually better than I originally thought it would be.
"they mad at me, I keep going hard reppin/
cause what's your Rampage to Rashad Evans/"
-Joe Budden (Something To Ride To)
http://www.zshare.net/audio/76866807deabe3c1/
by Nightwhistler on Sep 3, 2010 3:16 AM EDT up reply actions
talk about a fucking mark
Meltzer says that Toney and Dana cut a deal in 2006 and that all the Toney stalking Dana stuff was totally a work. I’ll post on that later.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
please do that would be something i’d be interested in reading.
"they mad at me, I keep going hard reppin/
cause what's your Rampage to Rashad Evans/"
-Joe Budden (Something To Ride To)
http://www.zshare.net/audio/76866807deabe3c1/
by Nightwhistler on Sep 3, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea right son
You keep believing it was “personal”
MMA fans love getting worked. Hahahaha
And you thought this buyrate ended up BETTER than what you thought? How?
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 3, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey i’ll be the first to say IF I got worked unlike alot of people here who believed it was truly boxing vs. mma I was one of the few that never bough into it.
As far as the buyrate goes i was thinking about 450k to 500k would be what it would get if it did around 600k to me that’s a big win for the UFC.
"they mad at me, I keep going hard reppin/
cause what's your Rampage to Rashad Evans/"
-Joe Budden (Something To Ride To)
http://www.zshare.net/audio/76866807deabe3c1/
by Nightwhistler on Sep 3, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
As for your other part about the media you have a point
Which is why I didn’t write about the fight.
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 2, 2010 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions
The solution is not to waste another title fight,
instead of putting another belt on the line to make this a co-headliner, just add a co-headliner with star power.
BJ vs Whoever or Rich vs Couture (any Couture/Rich fight actually) or maybe even ‘the return’ of chuck liddell. Problem solved.
by Anton Tabuena on Sep 2, 2010 8:08 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
These kids just don't get it, Nate.
That was the worst pun ever.
I wrote about this at Cageside and the fact is that Maynard nor Edgar induce any kind of feeling at all among anybody. Who cares if they are fighting? What are they going to do to make me care? Not to say that shit talk is the only reason to ever buy a PPV but it helps. The narrative here isn’t enough. The storyline arc won’t work.
Give it away on free TV if you don’t want to have it co-headline a big show. There is no way in hell it would sell even 300,000 buys as a headliner even with a strong co-main. They could throw it on Spike for free and say that that’s our payback for the Anderson Silva UFC 112 debacle. It’s not like Maynard or Edgar would be getting a cut of the PPV revenue anyway. This is the perfect and perhaps only time to do a free show featuring a title fight. The only drawback to it is if they went through with it the UFC would essentially be conceding that they know they have a champion who can’t draw and the number one contender can’t either. No matter who wins, it won’t matter. Unless they magically find some charisma.
The good thing is that Lesnar still won, Chael did well enough to earn a rematch, GSP is still GSP and the Light Heavyweight division is always interesting. It’s not the end of the world but you can bet your ass that Dana is going to get tired of trying to sell us Frankie Edgar real fast. He’s already playing the whole, “I don’t get why he’s getting no respect” card. Yes, you do Dana. He gets respect. He’s just boring.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
CagesideSeats.com
Follow me on Twitter at GenoMrosko
well i am interested in the fight
cant wait to see grey manhandle lil frankie again
I bet Vitor/Okami was the make-up for 112
Because it is a big fight and it has immediate title implications.
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
We always have UK cards free
This is the first free numbered event outside of the UK. Right now 122 looks more appealing than 120.
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
My take
I’d just like to point out that my take goes along with the assumption that white males are the predominant fans of the sport.
What is one thing that white guys like hearing about white athletes?- theyre hard working.
Whats one thing these guys have in common- both hard working
The UFC should ULTRA market this. Two former collegiate wrestlers, refusing to talk smack against each other- a history that includes the champ’s lone loss vs an undefeated challenger. Both are where they are from pushing themselves and mental fortitude. Frankie Edgar being the massive underdog against BJ twice.
These guys are GREAT guys- every interview shows that. But their a little vanilla for strictly smack talk hype. But put a Countdown behind this, one that focuses specifically on both, and you have two guys in a VERY similar vein to GSP. These guys just need their names out their, and the story sells itself. This is really a fantastic, fantastic matchup that could turn into an epic fight. The UFC just needs to showcase the true personalities instead of trying to “hype” the fight.
I’ve got big walnuts. Gorilla nuts.
White guys don’t like hearing that white athletes are hard-working. Quite the opposite, exactly. That’s just the role that white athletes have been pigeon-holed by the media.
by BVandDietPepsi on Sep 2, 2010 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I disagree
We have been conditioned with the same story, but i personally appreciate the “white guy does it through hard work and determination” cliche. I love Wes Welker, I love Frankie Edgar, Dustin Pedroia, basically anyone with that motif. Am I alone in this? I really think the “heartstrings” type of marketing would serve this fight well
I’ve got big walnuts. Gorilla nuts.
by Austin Martin on Sep 2, 2010 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
While I admit its really effective, it bothers me that “white” is involved in that. Like why doesn’t anybody ever say that about Rashad Evans? Sorry, that was off topic.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
I’m not trying to make it a racial thing. But there are definitely certain angles pursued with athletes
I’ve got big walnuts. Gorilla nuts.
by Austin Martin on Sep 2, 2010 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions
If you weren't trying to make it a racial thing
then you wouldn’t have brought up the fact that they are white.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
CagesideSeats.com
Follow me on Twitter at GenoMrosko
He's not trying to make it a racial thing. The sports media did it for him.
Jon Fitch is just a work horse who will grind you down. Such a hard working, blue collar guy to beat a bigger guy like Alves.
Rashad went out there and was explosive, and just was a better athlete than the bigger Rampage.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Sep 2, 2010 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions
THANK YOU.
I’ve got big walnuts. Gorilla nuts.
by Austin Martin on Sep 2, 2010 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions
You're right
And that’s why Black wrestlers like Koscheck and Evans and Antonio McKee are disliked with such vitriol (their fighting style). People “look” at them and think they should be exciting and explosive.
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 2, 2010 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Me too.
Hahaha I kid.
We the Black delegation select Josh Koscheck.
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 2, 2010 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions
white people afraid to rec this
perception is reality
by Marvin Malehooves on Sep 3, 2010 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions
How amazing is the UFC's rise in the post TUF era?
Here we are, talking about an event that sold 500K-600K PPVs, and it is (rightfully) being discussed as a disappointment. Travel back six years to 2004 and that number blows away Zuffa’s PPV sales for the ENTIRE YEAR by a pretty wide margin.
Simply amazing.
I think the best options are co-main for Silva/Soennen at the super bowl card, or headlining a european card. The bar for sales on a european card is lower, so putting this fight there can make it a small success or less of a failure than if it bombs in the US. It will also appease people by giving Europe a title fight.
I can get my brawls from undercard fighters. I can’t get skilled performances from them.
If purported fans of MMA don’t want to watch the two best lightweights in the world fight because they won’t talk smack, I’m more than happy that they don’t watch.
On the one hand...
I agree that excessive trash talk adds nothing to a fight for me. On the other hand, the growth of the UFC is a good thing because it means more cards, more fights, who knows, maybe even some network TV fights or on ESPN eventually.
That said, I do usually wish fighters would just shut up with the smack talk. >.<
When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, and he looks you crooked in the eye and he asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail." - Jack Burton
It didn’t sell out because the UFC didn’t do a good deal of diligence when it came to the ticket prices. I know the UFC can kind of price things as they please because of supply and demand, but I’m from Boston. Things are really tough here right now, just like everywhere else. Almost every fan I know said, “I’d love to but there’s no way. I’ll just go the fan expo, I guess.” I mean if $75 is your cheapest ticket, and the scalpers all probably got them on the day the tickets were released to Fight Club members, then the average person in MA isn’t exactly going to be thrilled about forking out more for a crappy seat or even more for an alright seat but considering you probably just lost a mortgage payment, how much can you really enjoy it? I know the economy is a weak excuse but it is really really really hard out there and for a niche thing like the UFC to come in and just expect to go right into everyone’s wallets to see an alright card, well that’s just ridiculous.
by Josh Grant on Sep 3, 2010 12:19 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
570,000ish buys is weak??? Since when. I don’t consider it a weak PPV unless they do under 400K.
I think they Should put Edgar v Maynard on 123 with Rampage, he will do enough talking for everyone on that.
400k PPV buys is weak? I don’t consider it a weak PPV unless they do under 395k.
by JimmersonzGlove on Sep 3, 2010 2:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Wait, I'm confused...
…so if Sonnen/Silva only did barely more PPVs than this, and not the million buys that led to all that “MOAR PRO WRASSLING” talk, why exactly do you say:
“Good lord. Dana have Chael Sonnen and Rowdy Roddy Piper put on a seminar for your lightweight fighters post haste!”
So it can also do about 600,000 buys?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
Big difference between Couture+Penn versus Anderson in terms of drawing power. Drawing 600K with an AWFUL PPV draw like Silva is incredible. Drawing 600K with two bankable guys like BJ & Randy? Not so much.
Except that it's not as simple as all that...
And Couture isn’t the draw people seem to think he is.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
BJ is
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 3, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Unless Edgar gets a huge raise it seems like Maynard and Edgar are going to have be on the lower end of the pay spectrum in whatever PPV their fight lands on. (not including prelim fighters so stop fumbling around your mouse trying to click reply, numbnuts.)
perception is reality
by Marvin Malehooves on Sep 3, 2010 8:39 AM EDT reply actions
cool LOL!
now england can get that title fight they’ve been wanting and waiting for…. LOL!!
$MOOTH MF'n MYKE BIATCH
Hey Gray!
Wanna LAY on me?
I want Kim Winslow or Tan Dan to ref Tito Ortiz' next loss.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Sep 3, 2010 10:02 AM EDT reply actions
This fight only headlines on Versus
Unless UFC have gone into the business of losing money, this doesn’t headline a live PPV card. An international tape delayed card that’s stacked? Sure. Or even live on Versus.
Otherwise this is the co-main to Koscheck / St Pierre, since that will guarantee a good number. Then it’s up to Edgar and Maynard to let their performance do the talking. Let’s just hope that talking doesn’t send us to sleep.
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