UFC 118 Salaries: James Toney Top Earner With $500K Payday
by Nick Thomas on Sep 2, 2010 11:27 AM EDT
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According to the Massachusetts State Athletic Commission (via sherdog.com): Main Card:Plus the $60,000 fight-night bonuses:
- Frankie Edgar $96,000 (includes $48,000 win bonus) def. B.J. Penn $150,000
- Randy Couture $250,000 def. James Toney $500,000
- Demian Maia $68,000 def. Mario Miranda $8,000
- Gray Maynard $46,000 (includes $23,000 win bonus) def. Kenny Florian $65,000
- Nate Diaz $60,000 (includes $30,000 win bonus) def. Marcus Davis $31,000
Preliminary Card:
- Joe Lauzon $24,000 (includes $12,000 win bonus) def. Gabe Ruediger $8,000
- Nik Lentz $22,000 (includes $11,000 win bonus) def. Andre Winner $10,000
- Dan Miller $30,000 (includes $15,000 win bonus) def. John Salter $8,000
- Greg Soto $12,000 (includes $6,000 win bonus) def. Nick Osipczak $10,000
- Mike Pierce $24,000 (includes $12,000 win bonus) def. Amilcar Alves $6,000
- Fight of the Night: Nate Diaz vs. Marcus Davis
- Submission of the Night: Joe Lauzon
photo via ufc.com
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Here comes the shit storm
"If I woke up looking like that, I would run towards the nearest living thing and kill it." -Master Shake
We have to take the amulet to the banana king!
by II SMASH II on Sep 2, 2010 11:30 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Hell, I’d get choked out by Couture for half a mill! Where do I sign? Seriously, that’s a ridiculous amount of money for a clown like Toney. I do suppose Dana did slip Couture a nice thick bonus for beating him, though.
Don't like wrestling in MMA? Go watch K-1.
Can't deal with the occasional boring fight? Let me introduce you to ROH.
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Sep 2, 2010 11:31 AM EDT reply actions
hey man!
Win world titles in 4 weight divisions in boxing and maybe you’d have been in with a chance!
Incredible
Dana White at the post-fight conference asking, “what does this kid need to do to get more respect?” when talking about Frankie Edgar.
Evidently, judging by Edgar’s payday compared to Penn’s, he gets no respect even from the UFC.
Por isso eu tomo ópio / é um remédio / sou um convalescente do momento / moro no rés-do-chão do pensamento / e ver passar a vida faz-me tédio
He's not as valuable as Penn
And that’s pretty much why his contract nets him that “little” amount.
by menckenstein on Sep 2, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Demian gets a flat fee?
sucks… Good for Toney BTW, I should throw that in there hehe…
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
It is odd
But maybe he has a double or nothing submission only bonus clause in his contract, he seems like the gambling type.
by menckenstein on Sep 2, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m leaning towards typo, wiki says he got a win bonus, and at UFC 109 he got 31k/31k. Don’t really see why things would have changed since then.
I always find it strange
The way the reactions to the pay announcements never change. You’d think people would be used to it by now.
James Toney didn’t get paid 500k simply to be choked out. He brought leverage to the negotiating table and was able to secure himself a certain amount of money. The 15 (or less) minutes of a fight aren’t the only thing these people are being paid for.
That aside, it’s nice to see Diaz making a very healthy salary. With his tendency to win bonuses he’s going to make a lot of money moving forward.
by ruckus on Sep 2, 2010 11:40 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
he also brought in new viewers to this card
I really don’t see the problem of paying someone more if they are going to bring more eyes to the sport of MMA.
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
How many new viewers did he bring though?
I feel like Toney’s importance has been overstated.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
it could have
but I’m sure he brought in enough to make Zuffa want to pay him 500k, I mean, they had to have researched how well he’d do (trending wise) as to not lose money on the matter.
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
But that doesn't mean their research was right
We’ll see though. I just feel like Toney is a no name in boxing or MMA at this point.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
true
let’s wait to see the numbers. I’m pretty confident he was able to contribute to sell card but I know I could be wrong :p
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
No he didn't
The UFC could’ve run this card without Toney and done the same gate and the same disappointing buyrate
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 2, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
you already have the buyrates for this card?
interesting, wanna share it with us?
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
Disappointing? Meltzer says early trends show about 570k. That’s pretty good.
http://www.instrength.com
You kidding me?
With a BJ Penn title fight? With the whole “Boxing vs MMA” kick? With the run of good shows we’ve had? That’s VERY disappointing.
How is that number good? Please explain? That’s the lowest BJ number in years. UFC 112 was at like noon, so that one is an anomaly and it was still 500K.
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 2, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
it was bound to happen
sooner or later. UFC can’t continuously hit $1million buyrates + this card was not that appealing other than the BJ/Frankie & Randy/Toney fight. Take Toney out of it and it’s even less appealing
Uh, it was a FREAKSHOW
You only do Freakshows to get money. You hurt your credibility otherwise.
They got no money.
BJ Penn doesn’t draw under 500K PPV in a couple years. They didnt get much more than that.
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 2, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, with a BJ Penn title fight. Yes, with a boxing event. It’s in the area of what Sonnen/Silva did, what Chuck/Franklin did, and better than Shogun/Machida did. It’s in line with a BJ Penn card. Abu Dhabi did 500k, Penn/Sanchez did 620. It’s not that far off. Edgar’s not a draw. You can call it disappointing if you want, but it’s right in line with what a lot of people expected.
http://www.instrength.com
Abu Dhabi was tape delayed and overseas. That's an anomaly.
BJ does way better numbers since the second GSP fight. His last three PPVs (101, 107, 112) before this one averaged out to be about 657k per show, and that’s including the overseas card. Anything under 600k is pretty disappointing.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Sep 2, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
107 is the only show BJ carried on his own. Him and Anderson carried 101 and 112. He’s always needed to be propped up in any other circumstance. Sanchez is more of a draw than Edgar, but it could be argued that it doesn’t make much of a difference. It’s not surprising to me. The initial question was whether Toney made a difference to the buyrate or not. I agree with Black Lesnar that Toney made no difference to it. But I wouldn’t call 570k disappointing. I’d call it a BJ Penn card.
http://www.instrength.com
i disagree. a good # of people tuned in just to see 1) Randy kick Toney’s ass and/or 2) Toney KO an MMA fighter.
Apparently they didn’t, because the buyrate is no different than a usual BJ card.
http://www.instrength.com
BJ
versus a guy who has no drawing power whatsoever on a card filled w/a bunch of mediocre fights (w/the exception of the Toney/Couture fight) on paper. to say that the Toney/Couture experiment had no effect on the #’s is dillusional
No one expected less than 600K
Hahaha, c’mon on now bruh.
Penn vs Sanchez with nothing else on it did more than this with Penn versus the guy who beat him AND a big “freakshow”
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 2, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Are people on crack or did they forget the hype job that Mir did selling his fight with Kongo, Penn is not the megadraw that he’s been made out ot be.
"they mad at me, I keep going hard reppin/
cause what's your Rampage to Rashad Evans/"
-Joe Budden (Something To Ride To)
http://www.zshare.net/audio/76866807deabe3c1/
by Nightwhistler on Sep 2, 2010 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
"Hypejob" =/= buyrate
People hype shit all the time. Toney hyped this fight. Didn’t sell.
Mir is not a draw outside of with Lesnar.
Penn isn’t a “megadraw”, but he’s one of 3 active certified draws the UFC has.
Lesnar is guaranteed a million.
GSP is guaranteed 700K.
BJ is guaranteed 500K.
No other fighter (Chuck is retired), can make any type of guarantees like that.
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 2, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Come on man...
Its not that simple and you know it. Nowadays, there’s no way the only factor in determining buyrates for a card is one single fighter.
I'm the best ever. You're the most average in a minute.
by slapjaw ackrite on Sep 3, 2010 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions
It kind of is that simple
UNless it’s a catastrophe, Lesnar will draw 900K,m GSP 700K and BJ 500K.
It’s not the ONLY factor in determining the whole buyrate, but it’s tthe major. And there’s a minimum for certain fighters.
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 3, 2010 1:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Joe Lauzon did well
Perhaps he should reinvest some of that money into a new nickname.
by INGO B on Sep 2, 2010 11:41 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Let me revise my previous comments on this.
Freak shows only 22 times more important than Zuffa’s bantamweight championship belt holder Dominick Cruz. I’m sure he’ll be pleased to know that it’s 22 instead of the previously quoted 34.
Dominick Cruz — $22,000 (including $11,000 win bonus) def. Joseph Benavidez — $17,500
Anthony Pettis — $22,000 (including $6,000 win bonus, $10,000 submission bonus) def. Shane Roller — $16,000
Chad Mendes — $11,000 (including $5,500 win bonus) def. Cub Swanson — $11,000
Scott Jorgensen— $35,000 (including $12,500 win bonus, $10,000 FOTN bonus) def. Brad Pickett — $17,000 (including $10,000 FOTN bonus)
But MMA is totally a legit sport you guys!
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Drawing power
“I don’t has it” – Dominick Cruz
by menckenstein on Sep 2, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
doesn’t really make sense paying these guys 200k if the sales to the cards aren’t that great. Not hating on WEC, but let’s be honest here.
the sport of MMA is legit, and so is the business side of it
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
In boxing, excellence is what pays and what draws.
That’s why James Toney is a washout these days and not making huge paydays based on nothing but unintelligible trash talk. Floyd may have talked his way into being the biggest draw in boxing, but it wouldn’t have worked if he wasn’t a top 2 guy pound for pound. And the jury is still out on if Toney even was a draw.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
I think he was
if you read some of the boxing blogs on the matter they seemed very curious to how he would do. There was also the piece yesterday about how the ‘mainstream’ media views MMA (right after the 118 card), that seems to suggest that they ended up watching it and sharing their views because of Toney. The money thing is also another reason to concede, the UFC aren’t stupid, they’re not going to pay big money for people who aren’t going to help sell the card, they do research before putting on each card to have an idea on how it will do.
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
This is certainly not true.
Or else Pascual vs. Dawson would have been a PPV fight and Roy Jones Jr vs. Bernard Hopkins would have been in a parking lot somewhere.
o·pin·ion –noun
1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
by WarToney on Sep 2, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
The reality of the situation is that the WEC doesn’t get that many viewers, and they have had only one PPV so far. Dominick Cruz, while a great fighter and champion, just isn’t a draw. Comparing the WEC to the UFC is fruitless because the UFC is just that much bigger than the WEC even though they are both owned by the same parent company. This is business, and a fighter who can get more eyeballs to watch will generally get paid more.
WEC branding is a sham.
These guys don’t draw because they aren’t in the UFC. The UFC doesn’t want them because they’d have to pay them more. So they are stuck getting small money for pay and small money for sponsors because they are slapped on a stupid cable network and not being brought into the premier MMA organization that supposedly houses ALL of the top talent. You know where this gets bad? Managers hate small money. So these guys (generally speaking of course) get shit management. It’s bullshit. It’s a cost cutting measure by Zuffa that ruins the livelihood of top tier athletes in the sport they mythically grew all by themselves.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
These guys don’t draw because they aren’t in the UFC. The UFC doesn’t want them because they’d have to pay them more.
That is totally broken logic. When they are paying the champ Frankie Edgar 48/48 I think they could get by with paying WEC big wigs just a BIT more than they are getting now and they’d become much bigger draws and make EVEN MORE money for the UFC.
The WEC exists because of TV CONTRACTS. The UFC wants to be on Vs. thus the WEC exists. End of story.
It's not broken at all.
Frankie is still on his old contract, he’ll renegotiate and get better pay now that he has a belt, confirmed it wasn’t a fluke, and is represented top level MMA management.
Either way, lets compare the best paid WEC star to the UFC guys. Urijah gets 28k to show, 28k to win. And he’s the face of the company, their Chuck Liddell/Randy Couture rolled into one.
Face it. The WEC is a business decision by Zuffa that heartlessly fucks over two divisions of world class talent. It’s weak.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
My understanding is that Frankie and Couture are both getting PPV percentages of various sizes. Not sure on BJ once he lost the belt or Toney.
by Jonathan Snowden on Sep 2, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I certainly hoped Frankie was getting a cut,
and figured it was likely, but those disclosed numbers looked like a non-champions contract to me. I’m hoping for a noted boost in pay for his next defense.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Im sure Frankie will willingly give up any cut
of the Maynard/Edgar PPV and take a flat rate. That card will need some serious help to draw.
"Deserve's got nothing to do with it." -Will Munny, a known thief and murderer, a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition.
I was going to ask that. I always assumed the UFC gave their champs a cut of the ppv. Otherwise if a guy like Edgar is getting only 28k/28k there is a whole lot of incentive to either hold the belt hostage or spend an endless amount of effort to legally extract yourself from the contract, because you wants to risk fighting and losing the belt when you might never have that drawing power again.
I would hope that Faber got some sort of PPV cut for WEC 48. I don’t understand why they did the PPV, or even why he signed an extension the year before if he was only going to be getting 28k/28k.
If he did, so what?
Possibly the best card of the year, which was top to bottom stacked on paper, featuring FOTD candidate on Spike as a lead in, only sold 150k. That’s pathetic for a Zuffa run pay per view. I can’t even think of the last time the UFC had such dismal numbers even for grossly inferior shows. UFC 53 maybe? Please correct me if I’m wrong.
Urijah + UFC + Dana would draw 400k as a headliner in a title fight. He could do at least what Rashad does without a title/TUF. The WEC has become a cost saving measure, and the bean counters at Zuffa sure as fuck know it.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
if he did, whining about his 28k/28k is pretty useless, because it’s not true.
It would be great if the top guys in the WEC got paid more, but that’s just not the way it is right now. The way things seem to be going with the other promotions around the country, I’m sure the people at the bottom of the UFC and WEC who would be out of work if the WEC didn’t exist are pretty happy with the status quo.
So I shouldn't mention WEC pay because one Hogan-esque breakout star may have done ok and better than disclosed? Does not follow, my friend.
Look, guys in the WEC are not happy right now. I bolded that because it needs to be emphasized. These guys have to basically beg friends and sponsors for gear and support so they can make it through a training camp without working multiple jobs on top of it. Not the lower tier guys either, the top guys. You can trust me on this or not, but it’s true.
For fucks sake, Dominick is the best 135 fighter in the world right now and his title defenses are paying him what Pedro Rizzo is making to beat up Ken Shamrock and Gary Goodridge.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
I think the worst thing about that whole thing is that they are being forced to fight knowing they arent going to make a lot of money…
I love this line of thinking.
Yeah, these guys aren’t being forced to fight! Let the world class athletes go do some other shit and lower the quality of MMA competition!
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
IT'S A BUSINESS
bottom line- they don’t bring as much money in as the UFC so they don’t get paid more. When they start to draw more, they get paid more. If they don’t, they don’t. I believe this point was made by Orcus. Its a legitimate sport, and a legitimate business. Just because people bitch about them not making enough money doesn’t mean they’re going to get paid more. This is honestly the same tiring bullshit on every thread about fighter pay.
I’ve got big walnuts. Gorilla nuts.
by Austin Martin on Sep 2, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Here is the thing about the people wanting the Zuffa monopoly: that isn’t true anymore with no competitors. Salaries now are artificially low because there is no other place to earn, especially for these lower fighters.
Bigger draws earn more – but it’s not as simple as saying "draw more, get paid more.’ Because there is no incentive for Zuffa to pay more regardless of how much money they make on the cards.
by Jonathan Snowden on Sep 2, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
but people who draw more have leverage
and can deal a contract that is bigger for them
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
Only at the very highest levels. Everyone else gets the same progression on a series of stock contracts.
by Jonathan Snowden on Sep 2, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
You sound like jemaleddin with his steroids stance. You’re ignoring the reality of the situation and throwing Zuffa into the fire. “They’re holding them down! They’re branding it like that so they don’t have to pay them as much!” Come on. These guys AREN’T DRAWS YET. Let it go.
http://www.instrength.com
They will NEVER be draws without the UFC branding.
That’s the point. Everybody is thinking about it backwards. If they are in the WEC, they will NEVER draw. Ever. So they’ll never get in the UFC and the cycle will repeat.
Jesus christ, do I need to draw a diagram?
Fighter not in the UFC
^ …………………… \
/ ………………………. \
/ ………………………… V
Need to draw to be in UFC <—-Not going to draw
Only Zuffa can break the cycle. And they don’t have a business interest in it and it fucks over two divisions of world class talent.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Sep 2, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
And Zuffa’s not going to do it because it doesn’t make business sense.. So screaming from the mountaintops about it everytime the WEC payscale comes up gets kind of monotonous.
http://www.instrength.com
Then don't read my comments. Simple.
If you had close friends and saw them struggling to make ends meet, train, and take care of their families then maybe you’d care more. I get why you don’t think this matters, but I see why it does every day. So no, I won’t stop talking about the WEC pay scale. You’re free to ignore me if you’d prefer, and I’m sure mmalogic will gladly help you with the shoveling.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Sep 2, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
we aren't cold
we care about fighters, but the nature of capitalism isn’t always a friendly one. that doesn’t mean we don’t care about fighters, just that we understand why some aren’t paid as much…
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
This isn't directed at that.
Sure, there’s the reality that these guys are not making money and there’s a reason for it. That sucks. That’s what I’m saying.
And when people make comments like “they are probably happy with it” or “they don’t HAVE to fight” then they are being part of the problem. It’s enabling bad behavior rather than acknowledging there’s an issue.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Sep 2, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with the demeaning comments
I don’t like it when I read those either
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
If there’s a personal tinge to your crusade, okay. I wasn’t aware of that. I’m not trying to demean you as a commenter, you’re obviously one of the better ones here. It’s just the repetition that gets a little trying, that’s all. If there was something new to add, I’d understand, but it’s always the same thing. You are correct though, I don’t have to read it, so I’ll stop berating it. I don’t think the logic shot was really necessary though.
http://www.instrength.com
Sorry about grouping you with logic.
I’m caustic and coarse, it’s what I do, even if a commenter doesn’t deserve it all the time. My bad.
The thing is I’ve gotten very close with several WEC fighters, professionally and personally. I train with a couple of WEC fighters, and I’ve always had a soft spot for smaller weight classes since I’m not a tall guy either.
It pains me to see how much these guys struggle financially, and I honestly get a little depressed at how much they appreciate tiny things. I make calls for hours between gear sponsors and managers trying to connect these guys with more money. Their eyes will light up like a child on Christmas if you get them a free pair of boxing gloves, because the $60 they’d need to spend on them is that much of a problem. You get them a free gi and they’ll genuinely love you forever and go out of their way to help you as much as they can. And it’s not like that for guys in the UFC or even Strikeforce. It’s a WEC phenomenon.
So yeah, there’s a reason I don’t let up on this subject. It’s not some fan crusade like jemaleddin and his steroid deal. I have a pretty strong emotional investment in seeing the WEC raise their pay or get these guys the exposure they deserve in the promotion that really matters: the UFC.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Sep 2, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Not to sound cold, buy why is the argument…“Then don’t fight..” insensitive? Lighter weights don’t draw like heavier weights do, and they knew this coming into the fight game.
We are all born with strengths and weaknesses. If you are not big enough to earn a living as a fighter, perhaps you SHOULD NOT become a fighter….OR deal with the lower pay rates.
It's silly because you're basically saying you don't care about high level MMA.
If you honestly believe that these guys shouldn’t fight because they won’t make enough money, then you’re actively preventing the influx of world class athletes. At the very least, you’re encouraging them to distract themselves from full time training which lowers the quality of the product (well matched, high level competition). The attitude is, and I hate using this phrase, bad for the sport.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Sep 2, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
You are switching arguments.
Argument 1: I should feel bad for WEC fighters
Argument 2: Not promoting WEC fighters is bad for high level MMA
With respect to argument 1,
Sure, wouldn’t it be great if people would be willing to pay alot of money to see these guys fight?
But people aren’t. That’s life, kid. So, I don’t feel bad for them because they knew that coming into the business
I agree with argument 2, which is that it is not good for the sports, but that is a completely different argument than whether or not I should have compassion for these fighters.
I think you’re missing the main barrier to these guys success: being in the WEC. The WEC gets shit ratings, makes no money off gate and ppv, and there is no interest in it besides us. IAnd because it makes nothing for ZUffa they don’t care about except for he fact that it takes up tv real estate. t’s a ghetto or reservation for smaller fighter. Sad but true, There is an easy fix and that’s to have the UFC introduce bantam and featherweights. But the UFC doesn’t want to do that because while extra title defenses may help they don’t want to have to go through the headache of introducing the new divisions, so the status quo continues.
I actually think Coker should have gone hard after Faber when his free agency was coming up instead of Fedor. Think: he’s huge in Northern California and they start marketing a very charismatic fighter and exciting division that Zuffa is not showing much interest in. Paired with female mma they would have two things you couldn’t find in the UFC.
You saying that “Urijah + UFC + Dana would draw 400k as a headliner in a title fight” leads me to believe that it is not so simple as “The WEC has become a cost saving measure.” The reason that I say this is that 400k is a lot of money that is being left on the table, and business-wise, if the UFC could make money off of Featherweights and Bantamweights, then I really don’t see why they wouldn’t. I would be surprised if the UFC didn’t want an extra 400k PPV buys, and they would be making more profit by paying WEC fighters more money if they could indeed draw that many buys.
Like I said, I feel that the UFC not having Featherweights and Bantamweights is not so simple as that they just don’t want to pay them more. If they could make money off of them, I don’t see why they wouldn’t.
Aldo vs. Faber was the best selling non UFC ppv of all time, seriously what kind of delusions are some of you people living in?. The WEC is it’s own entity it’s not the UFC get over it, it works on a completely different level and it’s been successful unlike everyother mma org which has fallen on it’s face.
"they mad at me, I keep going hard reppin/
cause what's your Rampage to Rashad Evans/"
-Joe Budden (Something To Ride To)
http://www.zshare.net/audio/76866807deabe3c1/
by Nightwhistler on Sep 2, 2010 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think Faber got a percentage. I think it was a straight cash payment independent of the cards numbers. I can’t recall the details.
by Jonathan Snowden on Sep 2, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
And if the WEC wasn’t around, they would be making a ton of money? Doing what, Shark Fights? Sengoku?
I think the WEC should be merged with the UFC, but if the WEC fighters really feel like they are getting screwed, they shouldn’t have signed their contracts.
"an excellent example of why most MMA "journalism" is a joke. Pseudonyms like "toxic" and shitty writing like that dopey article"--- Joe Rogan.
The UFC is still wanting to make more events especially for card space. The average UFC card has anywhere from 10 to 13 fights. UFC management already has to find a way for alll their contracted fighters to fight regularly using the card space that they already have. I don’t feel that it is so simple as that the UFC just doesn’t want to pay the WEC fighters more, and I feel that other factors like making space for two new divisions would be much harder to do than one would think.
In 2008, the Red Sox paid the American league MVP over 41 times less than they paid Manny Ramirez. Is baseball not legit?
Manny Ramirez has a history of performance in baseball
Terrible fucking analogy
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 2, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
You're also a notorious mark for Toney.
That’s not an insult, by the way. You’ve been trumpeting him harder than anybody who isn’t actually James Toney. Good on you for sticking by your boy at least.
But I’m not talking about that. I’m talking about high level MMA and how the UFC is the self proclaimed home for it. 4-2 fighters do (read: should) not fight 0-1 fighters in the UFC. Guys ranked in the top three of their division sporting 15-1 and 12-1 records are supposed to.
I say this because I love the UFC. They claim to have the best talent in the world for 155+ and you know what? They do. It is not arguable. And it hurts their brand and legitimacy to not have top level athletes fighting for them when a 60 lbs overweight 0-0 James Toney shows up as the co-main event. Mark Hunt is more legit than James Toney.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Sep 2, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Why would the UFC pay him that kind of money?
They should have tied all his salary in a win bonus.
This just makes no sense to me.
Got no problem with Toney making 500K
He made the UFC that money back and more – he’s a seller and Edgar isn’t, simple as that. But Joe Lauzon fighting for 12 & 12? Surprises me, he’s been with them for a long time and is well liked.
by Disco1Stu on Sep 2, 2010 11:59 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Where is the proof of that?
The gate was low (considering) and the buyrate is clearly nothing to call home about because no one is talking about it.
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 2, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
The point is new viewers, not just the buyrate.
If you introduce new eyes to the sport they are more likely to become fans and buy future events.
This is the same reason why UFC credentials mainstream media over MMA specific media.
This is the same reason why UFC hold PPVs in foreign markets despite a reduction in PPV numbers.
by fbf on Sep 2, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
What new viewers?
If 500K is the BJ Penn floor and they got 570K, that’s only 70 K in new viewers. And who says that’s because of Toney? I can think of 5 better reasons than James Toney for the extra 70K in buyers.
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 2, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I said it above, but I guess it doesn't matter...
[BJ Penn’s] last three PPVs (101, 107, 112) before this one averaged out to be about 657k per show, and that’s including the overseas card. Anything under 600k is pretty disappointing.
Go back one more fight and add UFC 94 and his average over the last two years climbs to 722k buys.
This card did significantly fewer buys than the average BJ Penn card. It lost viewership compared to his previous performances. Anybody talking about added buys because of Toney is spouting nonsense if this event sold under 600k. If you go all the way back to UFC 80, an overseas card in a totally different MMA market (almost three years), then you get BJ Penn’s PPV draw to average at 598k per event. Still better than the 570k number you’ve been bringing out.
I do not understand how people still think Toney was a good thing for anything.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Sep 2, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
there are other factors that goes into the buyrate, who’s to say BJ had the same drawing power he’d have if he were still champ?
also, in his last four fights, you had GSP, Forrest Griffin, Muuur and Anderson Silva also on the card, which affects the buyrate, not all the sales are attributed to his name only.
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
BJ doesn't need the belt
Neither does Lesnar or GSP or Chuck. That’s why they are called draws.
You’re actually saying “Mir vs Kongo” played a part in that draw. You fuckin kidding me? SERIOUSLY? Hahaha.
And Anderson is a “non-draw”.
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 2, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Mir is a heel, so i no kid you not nay.
since your so good with numbers, show me his sales prior to his last 4 fights will you? I still think you guys are talking mostly out of your asses though, we still don’t know how well 118 sold.
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
Mir is a heel
So is Koscheck. is Koscheck a draw? Being a “heel” doesn’t make you a draw, sometimes it makes you a dick. No one wanted to see Mir/Kongo.
Show you who’s sales prior to their last four fights? You weren’t clear in who you were talking about. Mir? Penn? Anderson?
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 2, 2010 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Until I see some numbers that indicate that Toney had a significant impact on PPV buys (I somehow doubt it), I will just say that this is shameful. A fat old slob with no MMA experience get half a mil, while most of the other guys are making peanuts. Doesn’t really look too good..
by Horselover Fat on Sep 2, 2010 12:02 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
It's less than what they anticipated...
for that I am happy. They were saying 750,000 to a milli but I agree it still seems ridiculous.
It seems ridiculous for the selling point of a card that will make tens of millions to get paid $500K?
by Jonathan Snowden on Sep 2, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I understand why he was paid that.
I just do not want to see the “freakshow” fight, which is why I feel it is ridiculous. If Toney indeed does bring more eyeballs to MMA, great! Then pay the man.
Correct me if I'm wrong
but even Lesnar only got $250,000 for his first fight, and he was a proven PPV draw.
Neither was Toney
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 2, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Lauzon seems like he's underpaid
Without his win bonus he’s only making twelve and twelve. His star power seems bigger than that.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Fighters don't get paid by how 'legit' their MMA game is...
They get paid in relation to how much they draw, which directly leads to how much money they make for the UFC. Obviously, this statement is highly simplified, there are many other factors involved, but its a sound and fundamental rule of thumb.
while i have no problem with whatever dana pays him (it isn't my money)
i didn’t think there was any way he made more than $100k. interesting.
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
Dana
$500k blown in one hour at BlackJack table = sucks, but no worries
$500k thrown at James Toney = millions in return, a vested interest from the Boxing community and the enjoyment of watching Toney get pounded.
I’m pretty sure Dana is happy w/his decision.
by BeeTrain on Sep 2, 2010 1:38 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
What millions?
The gate wasn’t even 3 million and they could’ve drawn that without him.
Buyrate clearly isn’t worth crowing about.
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 2, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
You just repeated yourself 6 times for no reason.
http://www.instrength.com
by Tim Burke on Sep 2, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Twice
And there was a reason.
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 2, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
he’s pulling a mobb deep- flood the block
I’ve got big walnuts. Gorilla nuts.
by Austin Martin on Sep 2, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn't even have 6 posts in this thread at that point
Try again.
Only 2 were about the buyrate
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 2, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Point being...
It’s obvious what drum you’re beating. It may quickly become a dead horse.
o·pin·ion –noun
1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
by WarToney on Sep 2, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not a drum, it's the truth
I’m responding to comments
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 2, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Apparantly you're unfamiliar with the turn of phrase.
Your drum goes: “Toney didn’t sell. Toney didn’t sell. Toney didn’t sell. Toney didn’t sell. Toney didn’t sell.”
o·pin·ion –noun
1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
by WarToney on Sep 2, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Son your name is War Toney
C’mon son.
When the Beer Monster made that comment, I had 4 posts in this thread. 2 were about Toney’s drawing power.
This is a discussion about Toney getting paid, are we not to discuss his drawing power?
You’ve been crying in here about how great a boxer he is, are you beating a drum or having a discussion?
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 2, 2010 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
That's funny
That a guy with “/sarcasm” in his sig would take my name at face value, but that’s fine. Regardless, I was as you said, responding to comments that he wasn’t a great all-time boxer, which is false. You’re right though, “crying” is the appropriate word for what I was doing, or posting facts, but crying is probably better.
You’re perfectly fine to discuss his drawing power, and it’s plainly obvious to anyone who looks at this comment section for 2 seconds how you feel about it. You want to make a guy’s ONLY UFC payday into your personal axe to grind. I just hope you bring the same level of passion into a salary thread the next time someone else gets paid an undeserving amount of money.
o·pin·ion –noun
1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
by WarToney on Sep 3, 2010 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
I mean, you've only been talking about Toney in here
Yet, you’re upset with me because I have a couple posts saying he didn’t draw. It’s just as obvious how you feel about him as a boxer as I do as a draw. And yet…
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 3, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
And yet I can still be a fan of his work in his prime.
sounds silly right?
o·pin·ion –noun
1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
by WarToney on Sep 3, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Still waiting for those "6 times"
Make sure you look at the timestamps and they were before you made your erroneous post.
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 2, 2010 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
the gate was that low because the ticket prices were out of control
and the ppv buyrate was lower than expected probably because not enough people thought Toney had a shot, and the card built around them wasn’t exactly the best.
It was a failed experiment, but probably made someone a good amount of money
I’ve got big walnuts. Gorilla nuts.
by Austin Martin on Sep 2, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
not even close
the tickets for last years event in Dallas were priced about the same. still FAR less than a Vegas event….far less
Yep
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 2, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I think its's a trend we may be seeing
The UFC is growing in popularity so we’ll see huge spikes in ppv sales for the real big fights: Rampage vs Evans, GSP and Brock fights etc, but everything else we be normal. 300,000 -400,000 for non title and 500,000 + for title fights. It ‘s the effect of the economy. People are learning not to spend and to cut back, and that’s why I think we might not see an increase in the UFC’s median sales rate. A large block of the consumers are going to get more selective.
Yeah
Toney made a good amount of money. Ha
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 2, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
c'mon now
the tickets for one, weren’t priced as high as a Vegas event, and two, you forget about the shitload of money that was made at the Fan Expo….SHITLOAD! i could barely move in that place, and at $30-$40/ticket, you can be sure that money was made! and you can’t deny that Toney played a part in it, regardless of how you choose to ignore it
They would've made the fan expo money
Without James Toney.
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 2, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
You’d think that after all of this time the constand and useless bitching about pay would stop but no people continue to try and beat a drum that they don’t even know how to play.
Bitcing about Toney’s pay is ridiculous he was one of the draws of the show, also trying to compare what he made for 1 fight to what Frankie made again shows how insane people are.
Seriously I just wish they would stop reporting useless numbers than lead to nothing but constang crying from people who seem to have no idea how the business works because it’s beyond tired.
"they mad at me, I keep going hard reppin/
cause what's your Rampage to Rashad Evans/"
-Joe Budden (Something To Ride To)
http://www.zshare.net/audio/76866807deabe3c1/
Fuck that. Toney got paid. I wish he had gotten more.
I want people to get as much as they can get.
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 2, 2010 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
A pretty good amount of people I know tuned in for the Couture/Toney fight. Even people who nothing of MMA were interested to see how he’d do.
Though I’ll admit most of them went to a bar to watch it.
by A K I R A on Sep 2, 2010 11:50 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Also remember many fighters get payments that aren’t disclosed. Randy for example gets a huge cut of PPV buys.
by A K I R A on Sep 2, 2010 11:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
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